Witchcraft Mini Mafia III

On June 08 2015 08:16 wherebugsgo wrote:


who are you

On June 08 2015 08:15 wherebugsgo wrote:
anyway I am kinda sad I didn't roll scum this game but you guys should elevate me to Greater Demon status cause that'll be baller

also if you guys could fill me in on who I should expect to suck this game and when I should be disappointed for someone sucking that would be great

On June 08 2015 08:22 wherebugsgo wrote:



##vote FreezingFoot

I say we kill this foot unless he convinces us of his identity and why we should keep him alive. I for one do not want to be led by two left feet

quotes about feet:

The human foot is a masterpiece of engineering and a work of art.
-Leonardo da Vinci (load of shit)

The foot feels the foot when it feels the ground.
-Buddha (wat)

When you step on the brakes your life is in your foot's hands.
=George Carlin (I would rather my life not be in the hands of this foot....or should it be...wait feet don't have hands)

On June 08 2015 08:39 wherebugsgo wrote:


Would you rather have the smurf be Foolishness, or random lurker X?

What about Ace, or BloodyC0bbler?

How exactly is this purely a scum-motivated question? It arguably helps town far more, given that if the smurf is town scum already know they are town and they are already automatically a threat. Knowing a player's identity is less important to scum. As scum I have left otherwise "good" townies alive to throw off towns before, simply because they were completely wrong.

On June 08 2015 08:53 wherebugsgo wrote:


So it's a scum behaviour to question nothing...at the beginning of day 1, when by definition there is nothing to question.

Where do you come up with this logic?

On June 08 2015 09:17 wherebugsgo wrote:


No, I'm not saying he's scum no matter what.

Given his responses I have no qualms calling him scum, which is in stark contrast to the fact that he thinks I am scum yet doesn't do jack about it.

You also did not even read what I said. I said he is anti town if HE IS ABOUT TO GET LYNCHED AND DOESN'T REVEAL HIS IDENTITY not if he votes someone. You need to slow down and read my posts more carefully before you start jumping to conclusions.

On June 08 2015 09:58 Breshke wrote:


Did you not see this post freezingfoot?

On June 08 2015 11:11 Breshke wrote:


That isn't the only reason he is calling you scum though that's why im pointing out that post.

On June 08 2015 12:46 Breshke wrote:


I liked this post.



I also further disliked freezingfoot trying to make it seem like WBG was purely pushing him because he was a smurf so I was happy with where my vote is.

On June 08 2015 13:30 Breshke wrote:
Kickstart do you think at this moment foot seems town? He posts this.



Yet he completely ignored WBG case which had nothing to do with him being a smurf. I don't see this as him trying to understand the thought process of the case against him. He just keeps focusing on the smurf thing.

I agreed with you to begin with that WBG reasoning was wrong if you look at my ealier posts but then I was just like fuck it who cares nothing else is happening lets pressure this guy. Foot proceeds to do basically nothing and ignores what people say other than the smurf thing.

Neither is it a lose lose situation for him. There is still more than 3/4 of the day left foot has plenty of time to be townie if he is town.

I also don't get why you seem to think that the only thing against foot is that he is a smurf when that isn't the case.

On June 08 2015 08:36 wherebugsgo wrote:


I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town.

Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory.

It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour.

You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing.

On June 08 2015 13:36 Kickstart wrote:
In my opinion they both have good points. I currently see them as mostly OMGUSing each other to an extent. I am not letting foot off at all, if I haven't been clear enough Ill make it blatantly clear to him and everyone else:

You choose to smurf this game, now you have the extra responsibility of proving beyond reasonable doubt that you are town. If you fail to do this purely through your posts and actions, we have no choice but to lynch you because we have no meta to go off of.

I just think that most people have made this blatantly clear (and it is something that someone who is going to smurf probably already knows anyways) and I see the attempt to "pressure" him as convenient. I mean he has already been pressured on this point, having you come in and piggyback onto the pressure does not add anything. It could be genuine, but it could be opportunistic on your part, I haven't decided which is actually the case yet.

That said foot needs to try not to OMGUS bugs too much and tunnel too hard on him cause that will likely work against him.

On June 08 2015 09:10 LightningStrike wrote:
Okay I still here for a bit I thought we were leaving right away and and will answer Breshke's quote to me.

It just seems preplanned so he could do that regardless of alignment I feel. What you get out of the pressure yourself?

On June 08 2015 13:54 wherebugsgo wrote:


It's not beneficial because the town smurf can avoid a night kill. It's only beneficial when that townie actually does something, which is usually the case when they are good. Which is why I told you, if that's the case (and you would know!) you certainly don't have to reveal yourself.

Your failure to recognize this point is now really damning. I have pointed it out multiple times, yet you are completely fixated on cherry picking my posts. I have invited you to provide scumreads, and invited you to answer many questions that could prove without a shadow of a doubt that you are indeed town, but repeatedly you have failed to do so.

If I were scum I would shoot the person with the best reads. It's clearly not you, because you're scum. It wouldn't matter if I'm talking to Foolishness in this game (and you're certainly not him) because your logic and your behaviour is unexplainable from a town perspective. You selectively cherry pick my posts in a way that paints you in the best light, and you repeatedly attempt to undermine my arguments by calling them bad without a shred of evidence backing you up.

I'm going to stop crapping up the thread with you directly now, since it's probably just going to continue to scare people off from posting...although I don't really like how slow everyone is to come in and get involved.

Again, to everyone in the game: PLEASE contribute, because we need a valid and diverse set of good perspectives to win this game of elimination.

On June 08 2015 14:04 wherebugsgo wrote:


You think his points are valid?? looool

He claims he's not "omgusing" even though he more or less called me scum immediately after I voted him. This is not to "give me space". To me it looks like he's just very self-aware of his image. That's not very common among townies.

On June 08 2015 13:50 Breshke wrote:



Yeah because it is really realistic to think that I as scum would think voting for someone giving no reasoning would make me look better than the person who spearheads the lynch. I'm bad but i'm not retarded. Your right i didn't really help much at all with the pressure no denying that.

+ Show Spoiler +

See I really like this now though. Let me explain how I saw bugs play.

Pressure this guy because he is a smurf for funsies and to get the thread going.

Justify the reasoning with something really shallow that doesn't really make sense

Oh wait this guy is actually doing something scummy now it is a legit push.

I dont think not revealing who you are even if you are about to die is scummy let me make that clear. Just because people can meta you doesn't mean they should totally flop a read on you if they are already voting you coming to EoD. I don't think a meta read should be able to change a read like that.

However I did have a problem with you apparently ignoring everything else he was saying and just focusing on the smurf thing but I understand now why you did this and it was on purpose and not intended to make WBG look bad by focusing on something that is not alignment indicative.

As for the last paragraph I don't think that makes WBG scummy because as i said before it came off to me that you were purposely focusing on the smurf thing so I can't blame him for having the same reaction and dismissing what you were saying.

##Unvote

On June 08 2015 14:25 Onegu wrote:



Does this mean you arent going to help at all for half the game but then come win it for us?

On June 08 2015 14:31 Onegu wrote:



Man I thought I knew who you were, then you said this and I knew I was wrong...

On June 08 2015 15:05 Tubesock wrote:
Hi world!

Kickstart and Breshke I think are town. I actually like Freezing's response.

For the Great Smurf Debate of 2015 I don't care if Freeze outs or not. personally, I'm happy if he/she doesn't. Obviously, she's doing it for a reason pre-game. I don't get why you want to ruin that for them.

Anyway, anyone still around?

On June 08 2015 15:27 Tubesock wrote:


I think you feel confident town won't lynch you for a stupid policy reason as you won't out as a smurf. I think Mafia would be more concerned with killing suspicion as soon as possible instead of drawing it out. Forcing your identity out is more a dick move to me. And really even if you did, I think it would derail the thread for longer determining if you are lying or not.

Breshke and I think a lot alike. Reading his interaction and his vote on you I can see doing the same thing he did if I were here in the beginning. I'm all for fabricating a policy reason to push someone and then throwing a vote on a person to increase the pressure. You've responded and now there is information from the pressure vote. So, now it's time for WBG to move on.

This is my 5th game I think. Everytime there is someone who is a little "angry" or insulty they are usually scum. So maybe a bad heuristic, but if I had to vote now, it would be on WBG, but I'll see if he gets out of this silly tunnel.

On June 08 2015 15:47 Bill Murray wrote:

ad hominem is a logical fallacy and indicative of scum

considering his scumandeering near my entrance in the game, the two damning qualities of these, coupled with my liking of batsnacks responses to me, are why my vote is where it is

are you unhappy that i'm voting someone who is worthy of a policy lynch considering the way he is treating you?

On June 08 2015 16:18 wherebugsgo wrote:
LightningStrike, do you have any games of yours that you would suggest I read if I wanted to know more about how you play? Gonna dig around myself but just curious if you can help me along in identifying which games you would consider representative of your town and mafia play.

On June 09 2015 00:25 ShoCkeyy wrote:
##vote wherebugsgo

Bugs posts in the beginning are trollish, but who knows just following the hype train from reading the thread atm.

On June 09 2015 01:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:


I've only gone through the opening, but Kickstart's and Breshke posts seem legit, Onegu is hiding to not get sniped first day. I'll sheep BM just cause I want to atm. It's the first day, hard to tell anything about anybody. Especially when there is other people who have yet to really post.

Then there is the smurf, but he's been active so w.e

On June 09 2015 14:27 Tubesock wrote:


I'm willing to reread Shockey but I think Bugs is mafia. His play reminds me of Geript in Joats where his plan was to shit up the thread, disrupt the big names, and position himself in a leadership role.

I must have missed it, why's Shockey scummier? He has only 1-2 posts doesn't he?

Also, I don't want to see them or anything, but when you take notes, do you use full sentences?

On June 09 2015 14:34 Tubesock wrote:


Thing is, I'm basically guilty of all this too. I town both KS and Bresh, I really like BM, and if I were around at the beginning I probably would have pressure voted you too.

On June 09 2015 14:57 Breshke wrote:


why is shockey not a coin flip as well then? Is he not new?

On June 09 2015 15:06 Tubesock wrote:
I'll just feel super dirty if Onegu is mafia seeing if we have the balls to lynch him for not playing into his silly VT claim meta...If he did/does claim VT then yeah total coinflip.

On June 09 2015 15:06 Breshke wrote:
Actually foot never mind that's a shit question. Would be nice if shockey would come back to the thread

On June 09 2015 23:50 ShoCkeyy wrote:


I liked Kickstarts opening, very part of the game, he went ahead and started with some roleplay basically saying he's town which is why I quickly can say he's town (obviously it's still the beginning, the posting can get worse) and he went ahead and started questioning bugs cause of this:



It's an opening post, but it's just so ugly for it being one of the first opening posts.

Breshke - You can just tell he's playing a townie, then why all the questions that force others to really give their opinions of other players?



I'm not new to these forums. I've definitely have played Mafia here before, but it's been a long time since then, so in a way I am new once again and I change my play style every game no matter what role. Then what's the point of continually playing when others have such a great read on you? This is why I started playing again, brings enjoyment.


Onegu: He brings points, then leaves - hiding to not really get sniped.

BM: I've played games with him before, always town. So I just rather sheep some one with more knowledge atm.

This was my opening post, now I've explained myself about it because most of you instantly think scum if I don't.

This post is w.e from LS:
+ Show Spoiler +

I don't like it, why do you link so many previous games to make sure people know how you play as a townie or mafia? And the fact that Bugs asked you makes it strange. Especially when he can just dig around himself, theres a database thread with ctrl + f.



I'm still going to stick to bugs, he's obviously angry about being called out so early into the game that he decides to leave instead, what kind of town motive is that? The google spreadsheet? It's ok, points as BM mafia because he's on an all out against bugs and LS even though they never had another interaction again after the game list above.



If the train decides to lynch a lurker (stutters), I doubt he would pull so much attention to himself if he was mafia by just not posting.

On June 10 2015 03:15 Bill Murray wrote:
scumposting^

On June 10 2015 03:16 batsnacks wrote:


Oh that might explain a lot then.

##unvote
##vote stutters

On June 10 2015 03:31 Bill Murray wrote:
1) WIFOM
(pg 3 of your filter regarding another player)
2) excuses
(bottom of page 2)
3) admitting to scumskimming
(same post at end of page 2 of your filter)

4) in this post, you also decide to VOTE before you even add reasoning

it's like your reasoning is merely a facade

On June 10 2015 03:36 Bill Murray wrote:

its the excuse to leave and the way you "did a quick skim of the thread"

Town doesnt skim, they read.

On June 10 2015 04:59 batsnacks wrote:
I think we should all vote stutters unless he comes back and towns himself. If stutters does come back to town himself we can switch to LS at the last minute. This plan assumes town is cool enough to not afk and accidentally no lynch.

On June 10 2015 05:05 batsnacks wrote:


My bill case relies on unflipped associations. I think bugs could be mafia for what bm said and I think bm could be mafia for what I said but I don't want to lynch either of them over stutters and LS is being weird.

On June 10 2015 05:33 batsnacks wrote:


I was also thinking about bill and shockey being mafia together and bill going out on a huge limb to push obvious townies and save obvious scums but again... Unflipped associations and not worth voting on.

On June 10 2015 05:39 batsnacks wrote:


Brother

Have you been smoking the weed?

On June 10 2015 06:54 wherebugsgo wrote:


I don't count aggressiveness as a scum trait.

BM is scum because he is pushing bad ideas and because he has a history of pushing bad lynches and being a brute as scum.

On June 10 2015 07:01 Kickstart wrote:
This is a fucking disaster though, people taking hard line "I refuse to vote ____" when its majority lynch.

On June 10 2015 07:07 batsnacks wrote:


Scummiest post in the entire thread btw. It's a very good thing you had a strong start.

On June 10 2015 07:07 wherebugsgo wrote:


I want to lynch Bill too.

But let's talk about Shockey. He's probably not scum, and even if he is he's definitely not a good lynch today. his entrance into the thread was pretty good, and in particular his reaction here:



in particular the bolded-the tone of posting and the indignance with which he defends himself is not a scum trait. I don't think he's the best bet to be scum after he responded like that.

On June 10 2015 07:29 Kickstart wrote:
Also LS scum reading Bill who was the only other real possibility of getting lynched (aside form the lurkers which I asked him to ignore) is odd. In this situation as town, I pour out all my thoughts so that town has something from me to go on when I am confirmed town at the flip. Meanwhile LS just afks.

On June 10 2015 07:33 Kickstart wrote:
foot that makes no sense. If he is scum he would shut the fuck up and not give too much info. ESPECIALLY IF NO OTHER SCUM ARE ON HIM TO LAST MINUTE MOVE OFF. But that may or may not be the case. Anways I find his lack of giving us stuff to work with scummy (why I voted him) now that he is still not giving anything when he is set to be lynched seems even scummier to me. Maybe that is how he plays, but I find it odd and I would do the opposite.

On June 10 2015 03:27 FreezingFoot wrote:
No, really.
BM scumreads bugs with me
BM ignores the townie points I've brought on bugs
BM townreads Shockey out of NOTHING and wants to lynch coinflip stutters instead
BM scumreads me, who was scumreading bugs (his main scum read) out of a stupid association with STUTTERS.

Please. Vote this guy. It's ridiculous

On June 10 2015 07:39 wherebugsgo wrote:


Really?

Other lurkers also parked their votes on stutters. And on BM at times too!

Also how do you get that expectation from this dude? Emotionally I don't get that impression from LS. Even if he did, wouldn't he provide a scumread at some point? Do you think LS's town play is so weak that he is incapable of coming up with ONE scumread in 48 hours?

At various times over the past two days I've skimmed like half of his town games, and in none of them do I see a situation where he has absolutely no scumreads whatsoever. He doesn't appear to me the type of player who is wildly afraid of putting their finger of suspicion on someone like he is this game and in other games in which he has turned up scum.

On June 10 2015 07:47 Bill Murray wrote:

kickstart, you really think it isn't obvious WBG is going to get powers?

On June 10 2015 07:48 wherebugsgo wrote:


This is not GoT mafia, and I actually read that game and completely disagree. I would have read him as town that game simply because of posts like these:







He admits he's happy he rolled town (which we know is true BECAUSE HE FLIPPED TOWN) which means he would put in effort as town.

He's not putting jack shit in for effort here in this game.



Look at how specific he is in these responses. There is no vagueness, and the tone is confident. He points out how he thinks sicklucker is wrong on a particular point, and he provides specific reasoning as to his opinions.

Compare that to this shit:



there's no specificity here. His responses to other players are also very similar in tone and style.

Also when LS is about to die in GoT here's his response



He calls it bullshit.

He has emotion here, and it has clearly escalated.

And this as well:




You don't see any of that here, he just slinks off.

On June 10 2015 08:42 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Fcking rekt. Well, that puts bugs as a townie in my reads. FF, why should you not be lynched next?

On June 10 2015 08:46 Bill Murray wrote:
pretty sure FF is mafia the way she flailed when i joked with her

On June 10 2015 08:47 Kickstart wrote:
Pretty sure you are both mafia. Bussing wont help you now baddie.

On June 11 2015 05:20 Kickstart wrote:
Well sure at the moment I'm not analyzing anything because I been up 30 hours and don't care too atm. But reads remain the same from earlier anyways. bill/foot/tube scummy.

On June 11 2015 10:39 Breshke wrote:
I kinda would rather lynch tube. His stuff during the night on bugs kind of made me think he was town because it was so out there and just wrong to me. Yet when I look at it again he just doesn't reconsider and has this blind confidence that he is right. He also has zero thought about anyone else seemingly.

##Vote Tubesock

I also think it would be beneficial if people who voted kickstart for the PR thing claim so we can see if he was empowered or not.

On June 11 2015 11:38 wherebugsgo wrote:


Kickstart seems like a random person to kill.

He was very suspicious of both BM and tube, but so was I. Maybe they expected me to get protted or maybe they shot us both but the one on me failed because they used the WH shot. Impossible to tell obviously but I wouldn't have put it past them

On June 11 2015 10:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Fuck it. Let's see where this get's us.

##vote Onegu

On June 11 2015 07:52 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Welp that explains Foot's play style, just like in the mini mafia I played in before, the small responses and caps lock posts late into the game. I should of seen it's definitely is town play from GB.

Foot, who do you think should be next?
Onegu, your thoughts, you haven't really said much this game which makes me worry about you at this point.

On June 11 2015 12:12 Breshke wrote:
Also glowingfoot one of reasons for towning tube during the night is the fact that he put in effort

I know this is something you attribute to townie behavior from your coaching of me and I agree that it is townie. But when you look at what he was actually pushing I don't think it was very constructive at all. Even if he thinks bugs is mafia shouldn't there be at least some doubt in his mind? I don't see how he can be scum reading bugs so hard so it makes his lack of doubt in his read even weirder.

Also can people go back and read tube's "cheznu rule" thing he had about LS which initally made him vote bugs. At the time it felt very awkward to me because he neither townread nor scumread LS yet called him low hanging fruit and that bugs was mafia for pushing on him (i assume this is the correct interpretation of the cheznu rule). The read just seems so out of place because i still don't uncerstand how you call someone low hanging fruit (which to me basically means an easy misslynch) when you don't have a read on them. It all jsut seemed a really contrived way to try deflect off of LS.

On June 11 2015 14:39 The Shining wrote:




Lmao you two would rather kill me than each other. So who gets blamed for the mislynch? And who looks worse since you'd both be voting with your scumreads?

On June 11 2015 16:33 The Shining wrote:
Question still stands, though. I know I've been a bit under the radar but I was also inactive as hell D1 the scumgame I won against GB. Y u no acknowledge me this game?

On June 11 2015 21:59 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Wait till tomorrow, let's see what happens. If you're right on the priest that would mean that there would be a 9/1 ratio by D3.



Yes.



You just answered your own question.

On June 12 2015 01:16 wherebugsgo wrote:
Shock is probably not scum can we move on

On June 12 2015 02:45 ShoCkeyy wrote:


Just cause I was scum last game doesn't mean I'm scum this game, don't help us lose, help us win.

On June 12 2015 03:08 wherebugsgo wrote:


try reading basically any of his posts that reply to you. also his thought process re your alignment seems genuine given what happenef after you outed yourself

also given that you think he is scum it probably means he is town

On June 11 2015 21:59 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Wait till tomorrow, let's see what happens. If you're right on the priest that would mean that there would be a 9/1 ratio by D3.



Yes.



You just answered your own question.

On June 12 2015 03:12 batsnacks wrote:


I'll read your ass with my foot!

I want to lynch tube or shine that's who I'm voting today. I might even make a case later.

On June 12 2015 05:47 wherebugsgo wrote:
btw it's pretty much impossible to use meta to say anything about Shockeyy because all of his games are so old at this point

he seems to always post this little and his style is fairly similar between scum and town. However he did play at a time when post counts were much lower than they are now.



This implies Shockeyy has played with GB before...

but he's only played one mini, and it was like 5 years ago. GB can you confirm you've never played with Shockey before?

On June 12 2015 06:35 wherebugsgo wrote:


I am not a power role. There are 2 ways I could've lived

1. They used the Witch Hunter KP on me, and it missed
2. I ate the normal KP and someone protted me.

We can't tell the difference cause there is no RB.

On June 12 2015 09:26 Breshke wrote:
If Yamato is not lying then both your options are impossible

On June 12 2015 05:23 yamato77 wrote:
I think it's Shockey/BM

I tracked BM to both kickstart and WBG, so obviously he's the witch hunter and there are no silver bullets left.

Shockey's read on BM is horrid and overall his reads aren't quite up to par with how I feel even a newb town would be looking at the game.

On June 13 2015 16:11 Breshke wrote:
GG GB, I think you had basically everyone fooled and under different circumstances it would have been very difficult to catch you.

On June 13 2015 16:13 wherebugsgo wrote:


gj I was rereading why you might've died and I kept wondering about FF hahaha

Kept convincing myself I was wrong for various reason or another

On June 13 2015 16:44 wherebugsgo wrote:
holy shit FF were you voted for witchcraft day 1

On June 13 2015 16:46 Kickstart wrote:
Yeh I had voted FF as my #1 lol, I tried to vote people that werent too obvious so they wouldnt get silver bulleted but I should have changed that vote close to EoD when I was pretty sure he was scum, o well.

On June 13 2015 16:48 yamato77 wrote:
I agree with your point in principle but disagree with it in practice, because rarely will a town smurf just freely out and most of the time you just waste a lot of the time in the day you could be using to pressure players for things they've actually done since role PMs were handed out. Even when the smurf in question is mafia, it's impossible to get people to policy lynch a smurf and convincing people that ONLY a mafia smurf wouldn't out is just loltastic. All it does is make you look worse for focusing on such an irrelevant point and give the player in question reason to be a dick and OMGUS you.

On June 13 2015 16:49 wherebugsgo wrote:
it blows my mind that after all he said d1 that people thought he was in their top 3 town reads

I was starting to think he was more town over time because of the sheer number of people yelling at me but on d1 I would never have considered voting him



nah

it was very clear based on the pressure that he was either hiding being a smurf for a bad reason or he was scum.

Like for almost 12 hours we got almost nothing out of him, and it forced him to be more active, but he never provided real reads

I only backed off because of the sheer backlash I got, otherwise I would've kept tunneling him till he died. I got almost no backup at all on that push so I switched to LS

also if I knew his meta I probably would've nailed him 100%. I didn't have the time to look into his past games when he slipped GB but at that point I assumed I was wrong already

On June 13 2015 16:58 Kickstart wrote:
Yeah I was not buying that they bussed their silver bullet, makes zero sense. How you read my EoD and Night Phase postings and dont see that I found you suspicious is beyond me.

On June 13 2015 16:59 wherebugsgo wrote:


except the reads you provided weren't even reads lol

they had no specificity to them

On June 13 2015 16:57 wherebugsgo wrote:


why?

I really don't understand why this is such a controversial opinion. I think I did my best to show why it was in town's best interest to either get something out of you, whether it be an identity or reads. We got absolutely nothing and yet people still considered you town

I only backed off because people disagreed with me. Generally when so many people disagree with me I start convincing myself that I am wrong. I did not like what you posted but I gave it a rest because it was destroying the thread. That's why I started calling you bad, because if so many people disagreed with me I thought you must be an idiot townie who I should start ignoring for having bad opinions.

It's good that I picked up on LS otherwise I would've started tunneling some poor townie like stutters

also it was definitely NOT a policy lynch. It was pressure based on being a smurf and I didn't like the direction you took after the pressure

On June 13 2015 17:01 wherebugsgo wrote:
anyway it's something interesting. I obviously don't agree with the conclusion of the other people in this game that smurfs should be treated the same as other townies. I think that type of thinking can potentially be really dangerous. Perhaps some people smurf for "obvious" reasons but it's valuable to understand those motivations because identity is like literally the most important thing in this game when you don't have better things to work with. Someone who is named Foolishness should be punished for having shitty reads, but if you don't know that they are Foolishness (or cannot get enough info out of them to understand that they should potentially be a strong player) then you are at a huge disadvantage when attempting to read them

e:



yes, it does.

Some people just don't have specificity in their reads when they are town, because they have bad reads in general. With those types of players if you know that (and the only way you'd know that is by reading their town games) you can adjust your read of them based on that.

After having read some of your town games I know you may be wrong sometimes but you at least give reasons for your reads. Your reasons this game either didn't exist or they sucked (and by sucked I mean the thought process made close to 0 sense from a town perspective) but without knowing your identity I had no idea whether that was normal or not

So the only gauge I had was other people disagreeing with me so I backed off

smurfing is powerful as fuck when you land scum.

On June 13 2015 17:08 wherebugsgo wrote:
yes, obviously convincing people is harder than forming the read. which is why I'm actually trying to show how it can almost never be beneficial for the TEAM for a person to smurf.

When people actually understand this they'll stop giving a fuck if smurfing has "benefits that go beyond his team's goals" which is a fancier way of saying "smurfing benefits the player themselves." That's exactly my overarching point, in like 99% of cases smurfing only benefits the individual player. Town play is entirely team-based, which is why it's almost never in town's interest to have a smurf.

e: also if you have personal interests in smurfing and you don't want to reveal you identity that's generally fine, as I mentioned in-game. Your reaction was solely based on identity though, which was very telling. Since you lacked proper reads that led me further into believing you were scum.

Again the problem was convincing other people, which is so incredibly hard. I've found it's easier to convince them emotionally which is usually why I get people to mislynch into randoms when I play scum. As town for whatever reason I find it really hard to do that because it's hard to use emotion while simultaneously having high confidence you have a scum lynch. Basically what happens is if you lynch the wrong dude you end up dying yourself because you so persuasively told everyone some poor townie was scum

On June 13 2015 17:13 wherebugsgo wrote:
I actually wasn't really paying attention to kickstart, which is why I mentioned to him that I went back and read his posts after he died lol.

Anyway the interesting part to me is that convincing other people as scum is fairly easy because you don't have to worry about being wrong. Well, you can worry about being wrong but worrying about being wrong will usually get you killed because you'll start to show it in your posts.

As town though you have to constantly worry if you are wrong which makes it hard to convince people to vote with you. You can't use emotional appeals because if you end up being wrong you'll look like an idiot and people will try to lynch you (and then you get further away from finding scum)

I really admire those players who can simultaneously find scum and convince townies to vote with them cause that job is so hard

thanks to BH and HtS for hosting and dealing with shenanigans

On June 13 2015 17:23 yamato77 wrote:
looooooooool my night WIFOM worked

tbf though BH didn't tell me I had won until just a few hours before deadline LOL

sick plays were made that night

On June 13 2015 17:26 yamato77 wrote:
Eh I townread you because I was lazy

TBH I really didn't read much you posted all game because it was more difficult to decipher than I cared

I did consider the possibility you were mafia after we saw the voting results because I sorta had reasons to townread Onegu and Shockey and you had basically stopped posting but I still would have checked Onegu over you.

On June 13 2015 17:35 yamato77 wrote:

Just weird formatting/sentence structure/diction. As a non-native speaker you don't type English in quite the same way and it takes more effort to grasp your meaning. Not a lot, just enough for it to be annoying when I'm tired.

Plus a lot of your filter was pretty bad and ragey so I have even less motivation to try to understand what you were saying. I was relying on lazy and bad meta admittedly but I wasn't that convinced you were town anyway because I knew I was being lazy with my read.