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On June 10 2015 05:47 yamato77 wrote:
Kickstart really making no sense. I'm really questioning his alignment.
For the record, I am a dick. Yes I think Shining is probably town but I disagree with everything he says.
I also disagree with everything Bill posts but that doesnt mean much. I don't know how to read him and that makes me very unlikely to lynch him.
Anyone doubting the lynch on LS need only to look at his filter and see just how uninterested in finding mafia this guy is. A lot of his posting is quite weak and he's really only attempting to feign interest or care when it's obvious that tonally he couldn't give a shit less and he hasn't really had any strong reads the entire game.
Every single game this argument is made concerning LS. D2/3 if he's mafia he really really drops off. It's way more apparent than any of his D1 stuff.
Haven't you played with him before?
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On June 10 2015 05:56 LightningStrike wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 10 2015 05:50 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 05:47 yamato77 wrote:
Kickstart really making no sense. I'm really questioning his alignment.
For the record, I am a dick. Yes I think Shining is probably town but I disagree with everything he says.
I also disagree with everything Bill posts but that doesnt mean much. I don't know how to read him and that makes me very unlikely to lynch him.
Anyone doubting the lynch on LS need only to look at his filter and see just how uninterested in finding mafia this guy is. A lot of his posting is quite weak and he's really only attempting to feign interest or care when it's obvious that tonally he couldn't give a shit less and he hasn't really had any strong reads the entire game. Every single game this argument is made concerning LS. D2/3 if he's mafia he really really drops off. It's way more apparent than any of his D1 stuff. Haven't you played with him before? He had played with me before 3 times (Aperture 4, Ippo, and Assassination) in each of those games I was town but in Ippo Yamato was scum.
So he really should know better.
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I'm going to actively lurk for 24 minutes.
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We have such a showman. It's the little touches I really enjoy. Like his so pretty google doc he made for "us".
Bug's google doc concerning Yamato77 his top town at 99%
Not useful until recently. Entrance into the thread was very strong. His needlessly strong response to my simple question along with ignoring half the things I ask is very fishy, however. He helped push LS but what if he's bussing? Fairly unlikely still, but question remains. w/e fuck it let's not get paranoid.
"w/e fuck it let's not get paranoid" is my favorite part. I particularly like it since I need to be reminded that Bugs is also displaying a towny trait! This entire doc is such a blessing to town. So helpful. Only a towny would be that helpful.
Damn near every one of his entries is a display to make him look more towny.
Since none of you would answer my request to point out why it is beneficial to town for Foot to not out. I can explain it for you lazy sheep.
First, I think it is important to acknowledge that the players in this game are largely unfamiliar with each other. This can make the night one kill choice more difficult than if the majority of players know each other. I'm sure sensai Bugs will say that "No, mafia ALWAYS WITHOUT EXCEPTION kill the town who is the closest to being right". Uh yeah no sometimes town doesn't really have any idea, so mafia kill the ones they fear. Not all the time but often.
There are various scenarios concerning the smurf and I won't come close to seeing them all. But take for instance a player like Holyflare or his caliber. A player who is both good at town and scum. There are players on this forum that are constantly killed night one. If they survive till Day 3 then they get lynched because no one can read them and if they survive they are obviously mafia. They die because mafia KNOWS they will figure out the game.
So, Holyflare wants to actually play a game and go past night 1 or 2. You will never be able to convince me that 1) the chances of NKing HF would be the same and 2) that it would not benefit town IMMENSELY to have HF live for a few more days. HF just singlehandedly won a game in 5-3 mylo very recently because mafia didn't kill him for some reason. How the fuck can you say him staying hidden doesn't benefit town?
So let's say he outs. Now, mafia has more information to judge their night kill on. Town will also just as likely argue about the outs authenticity. That benefits mafia again, no one is scumhunting. Town has to figure out the players alignment no matter if they out or not. But it gives mafia more information. It benefits mafia more than it benefits town.
What if HF is scum? Sure, he outs and then we lynch him D3/4 because there is no way HF should be alive that long. So in that respect it benefits mafia for him to remain a smurf. That also requires him to tell the truth. So, HF who consistently is lynched for surviving too long is going to out himself truthfully? That seems like a dumb idea.
Anyway, Bugs never considered more than just the one angle because his motive is to appear towny, not to solve the game. Bugs doesn't know hardly anyone in this game. Assuming new players don't smurf I think he's hoping he knows the player. Then he can make a better NK assessment.
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On June 10 2015 08:10 LightningStrike wrote:gG Had no motivation to play when I saw I rolled scum 
Questions to towns:
Do you agree that LS would say that in QT at the beginning of the game? I think he would say that right away. Or something similar.
If you were his partner, would you bus him? I would absolutely. I wouldn't do it straight out the gate but early enough so I can take credit. I'm pretty sure there were two games very recently that had mafia bussing each other D1 on this forum. It happens and it's a fucking smart play when you know your mate is going to be lynched D2 or 3 anyway.
It could have been Onegu who actually first scummed LS I don't remember but it's obvious Bugs is taking credit for it and pushing how mafia would NEVER bus day 1 like that. NEVER.
How many of you would? Maybe Bugs is town and he really wouldn't. It's possible. I think reality is that he is mafia and is doing a little magic trick for us.
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I'm willing to take the 7/8 odds that I am not miller.
Cop and priest check me tonight. If I don't turn up green on both lynch me. Simple.
Almost every single one of you sheep think I am scum. So what's to lose? I promise to still contribute what I think on non Bugs players even since you all seem to think he's so town.
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Bugs. It's totes adorbs that you think I am "chicken" of you. HAHAHAHA while I've only played 5 games I think (this might be 5? I'm old I don't remember) I have never backed down from anyone. Town or mafia.
It's cute that you think you know my schedule because my tag is the United States. I spend more time outside the US than I do inside it. It's just another weak thing you are trying to pile on without thinking of other possibilites. Your motivation is purely to look town.
Oh yeah you said I posted EoD but my last post was 2 hours prior to the end. When I was on Stutters he was the lead. LS was being pushed sure, but I already said why I wasn't going to vote him. Funny how my read on LS was "shit". My read was literally null with the knowledge that on Day 2/3 it would be pretty obvious. That's exactly what I said. I named 3 who I would policy lynch. Shockey and Stutters were literally equal to me with the exception that stutters had fewer posts. So I stuck on Stutters.
Fuck yeah I'm fine with a lynch on a modkill when I think the lynch is policy which is essentially 50/50. With 2 hours left too I figured he would probably vote. Lots of people show up close to EoD. As far as I was concerned I was willing to wait for more certainty on LS as he was 50/50 to me, and the remainders were just as likely to flip town as mafia. So I'm happy with voting a modkill to avoid the 50% of lynching 2 towns.
I am also completely fine with a no lynch if the wagons were people I had at 50%.
The more time town has the more difficult it is for mafia to win. It's a race against time.
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On June 10 2015 16:59 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 16:47 Tubesock wrote:
I'm willing to take the 7/8 odds that I am not miller.
Cop and priest check me tonight. If I don't turn up green on both lynch me. Simple.
Almost every single one of you sheep think I am scum. So what's to lose? I promise to still contribute what I think on non Bugs players even since you all seem to think he's so town. or we could not do this. Can you tell me about some other players now?
Like who?
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On June 10 2015 16:45 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 16:35 Tubesock wrote:We have such a showman. It's the little touches I really enjoy. Like his so pretty google doc he made for "us". Bug's google doc concerning Yamato77 his top town at 99%
Not useful until recently. Entrance into the thread was very strong. His needlessly strong response to my simple question along with ignoring half the things I ask is very fishy, however. He helped push LS but what if he's bussing? Fairly unlikely still, but question remains. w/e fuck it let's not get paranoid. "w/e fuck it let's not get paranoid" is my favorite part. I particularly like it since I need to be reminded that Bugs is also displaying a towny trait! This entire doc is such a blessing to town. So helpful. Only a towny would be that helpful. Damn near every one of his entries is a display to make him look more towny. Since none of you would answer my request to point out why it is beneficial to town for Foot to not out. I can explain it for you lazy sheep. First, I think it is important to acknowledge that the players in this game are largely unfamiliar with each other. This can make the night one kill choice more difficult than if the majority of players know each other. I'm sure sensai Bugs will say that "No, mafia ALWAYS WITHOUT EXCEPTION kill the town who is the closest to being right". Uh yeah no sometimes town doesn't really have any idea, so mafia kill the ones they fear. Not all the time but often. There are various scenarios concerning the smurf and I won't come close to seeing them all. But take for instance a player like Holyflare or his caliber. A player who is both good at town and scum. There are players on this forum that are constantly killed night one. If they survive till Day 3 then they get lynched because no one can read them and if they survive they are obviously mafia. They die because mafia KNOWS they will figure out the game. So, Holyflare wants to actually play a game and go past night 1 or 2. You will never be able to convince me that 1) the chances of NKing HF would be the same and 2) that it would not benefit town IMMENSELY to have HF live for a few more days. HF just singlehandedly won a game in 5-3 mylo very recently because mafia didn't kill him for some reason. How the fuck can you say him staying hidden doesn't benefit town? So let's say he outs. Now, mafia has more information to judge their night kill on. Town will also just as likely argue about the outs authenticity. That benefits mafia again, no one is scumhunting. Town has to figure out the players alignment no matter if they out or not. But it gives mafia more information. It benefits mafia more than it benefits town. What if HF is scum? Sure, he outs and then we lynch him D3/4 because there is no way HF should be alive that long. So in that respect it benefits mafia for him to remain a smurf. That also requires him to tell the truth. So, HF who consistently is lynched for surviving too long is going to out himself truthfully? That seems like a dumb idea. Anyway, Bugs never considered more than just the one angle because his motive is to appear towny, not to solve the game. Bugs doesn't know hardly anyone in this game. Assuming new players don't smurf I think he's hoping he knows the player. Then he can make a better NK assessment. I really don't like this. Why are you still talking about the smurf thing no one cares about it anymore It also seems absurd that you just say he writes stuff to see townie yet don't show exactly where. Like explain WHY what he wrote is only posting to seem town and not because he is actual town. Being wrong isn't a scum tell but saying someone who voted and pushed mafia isn't trying to solve the game while you voted on a policy lynch seems dumb.
I think the smurf thing was a show to look towny. He continues to push it. I'm saying he isn't looking at more than one angle of his argument because he isn't motivated to find the truth, he's motivated to look towny.
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On June 10 2015 16:46 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 16:43 Tubesock wrote:On June 10 2015 08:10 LightningStrike wrote:gG Had no motivation to play when I saw I rolled scum Questions to towns: Do you agree that LS would say that in QT at the beginning of the game? I think he would say that right away. Or something similar. If you were his partner, would you bus him? I would absolutely. I wouldn't do it straight out the gate but early enough so I can take credit. I'm pretty sure there were two games very recently that had mafia bussing each other D1 on this forum. It happens and it's a fucking smart play when you know your mate is going to be lynched D2 or 3 anyway. It could have been Onegu who actually first scummed LS I don't remember but it's obvious Bugs is taking credit for it and pushing how mafia would NEVER bus day 1 like that. NEVER. How many of you would? Maybe Bugs is town and he really wouldn't. It's possible. I think reality is that he is mafia and is doing a little magic trick for us. Even if LS didn't want to play I think his partners tell him to at least try D1 so they can use his KP. If he refused this then he is a dick and shouldn't have sighed up and I don't think LS would do that.
That's very possible. But what if you have 2 mafia players who feel comfortable projecting town and can likely get and win votes? Sure, having that blue snipe ability is nice, but I think it pays off to bus a mate who will die in a day or two anyway. If I were mafia I would bus LS just like Bugs did. At least try to anyway.
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On June 10 2015 10:22 wherebugsgo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +btw FF I hope that lynch did not discourage you from posting. If you are town the last thing you should do is disappear at this time.
If you indeed don't spend this time talking to me, I'll have to list you as a scumread. If I die I hope the town is not dumb enough to let you go quietly. Partly the reason is because I won't be around ~3 hours before lynch, because I will be boarding a plane. Indeed, I probably won't be around after the lynch either so the next ~6 hours or so and maybe early morning tomorrow is the best time for me to get as much information out of every player to provide the best I can before my time in the game ends.
So, let's talk. Convince me why you're not scum. Convince me of your best two reads right now. I know you think BM is mafia, you've argued that point through and through. Let's assume BM is either dead or town. Who else would you pick? I want reasons. I also want specifics and the details behind your thought process. Lastly, since I think this would be very useful, I want you to claim your identity so I can read your past games. + Show Spoiler + If any of you disagree that meta would be useful in this situation, please go ahead and reread my case on LS, and tell me exactly why a smurf FF in this situation would be doing us a favor by not telling us his identity. My comparisons between LS's countless town games and his really mediocre mafia play was a significant driving force behind my confidence in the lynch, and I would expect that a town smurf would understand the implications of having more information on the table.
From page 9 of his filter. Just prior to his post to me and after you and him talked blue powers.
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I think bats is town for how he behaved at the lynch. I also agree with his "dumbtell" idea that BM did, but I also think BM is town and have for awhile.
I liked ShoCkeys last few posts.
I do not have a 3rd scumspect just yet. But I have 2.5 days to find it before I get lynched.
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On June 10 2015 23:05 Kickstart wrote:
Tubes not making any sense to me but maybe its cause I've been up for like 24 hours.
Pick any post or points in a post that you have a question on and tell me why it's confusing.
I'll be around for just under 2 hours.
What do you people as mafia value more: one conditional kp with whatever chances they are to land this game, or being essentially confirmed town?
It's a little different but a recent game Sicklucker orbed mafiamatePalmar to death for no real reason. Then rode that confirmed status to mafia victory. Palmar was not under pressure aside for being good and alive of being lynched. Sicklucker wasn't under abnormal pressure either. While I don't think Palmar represented additional kp, they still sacrificed him.
Town there didn't have a chance.
LightningStrike flat out admitted he wasn't motivated to play scum.
Fucking tell me that mafia would not consider busing him D1.
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I think it's worth it. I think with a mafiamate who doesn't want to play, I would go all out as towny as I can and hopefully get some votes for powers. If your 3rd partner can play too then you have chances to win a power vote. Assuming town is somehow right and would vote only towns to blue roles then yeah you maybe right it's nonsense. But if one of you can get voted top 3 towns then you really only have 2 in 9 chance of landing the shot. Those are not great odds. It was already said earlier that it would be smarter to save that blue shot for better odds. You actually think LS would have survived very long? The payoff for keeping him alive is not as good as leading the lynch on D1.
But if I thought, or had a mate I thought could go super town I'd chase that power vote. Bugs is doing all sorts of showy town things. Like here:
On June 10 2015 07:25 Breshke wrote:This comes off as really fake
Others noticed it. + Show Spoiler +On June 10 2015 07:26 Kickstart wrote:
Yeh, less feigned concerned about the flip now thanks.
And even you commented on it. + Show Spoiler +On June 10 2015 07:28 batsnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 07:26 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 10 2015 07:25 Breshke wrote:On June 10 2015 07:24 wherebugsgo wrote:
oh god I'm nervous This comes off as really fake it's the truth. we have half an hour to go. I'm 90% confident but it's always the 10% that scares me Why are you concerned at all if you're 90% confident that is overwhelming confidence for a d1 lynch? If LS flips town and you could instantly take it back and lynch someone else today who would you choose?
He also "rage quit" due to "people not playing". Then comes back and says:
On June 10 2015 06:41 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright, done throwing a tantrum and I'm going to play to my win condition now.
This looks fake to me. Town would just start playing again, no need to announce it. FAKE FAKE FAKE
Look at his google doc. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18hJSlotqO9cGIaINjn3EQtuMrxz1p6SH_G4algS3Otk/edit#gid=0
Those are written for us to think he's town not for him to keep track of people and figure out the game. He displays transparency, paranoia, and definitive reads. But notice how all the paragraphs are full sentences, easy for others to digest, and in all the towns most the stuff he writes is how they could be scum too and he's not sure. Except for Breshke. In one of them he puts "mafia can't fake this IMO". Seriously, in your own notes you are telling yourself it's in your opinion? This shit is so fake. A Town writer KNOWS this entire note is in their own opinion. This is purely to sway town to think he's town.
He then adds "w/e fuck it don't get paranoid" on his last. He has to point out to us he is paranoid like that Honest Bob's Car Sales down the road is honest. Town doesn't need to tell others they are paranoid, it comes out. He's saying that so we see it and look at his entries and add town points to him.
Bugs is consistently telling us he is being towny. Town doesn't fucking have to do that. They are just town.
Pure show.
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Bussing day 2 is far too common to make it worth it. He wouldn't make near the same towncred as on Day 1. On day 1 you bus straight away, you are basically confirmed town. Day 2 is harder because you also have to make sure you are in the lead and some other towny doesn't start the push or gets the credit for the lynch.
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Your notes could be an attempt to be more readable with town motivation.
Personally, I like the notes that are a little cryptic. There is value in finding the people who are inquisitive and searching for the truth. Finding scum is most important, but finding towns is also very important.
But I'm too chicken to point suspicion your way so I'm going to be off for a few hours and then shortly on and off again till later tonight.
The good thing is when bill/tubes/foot all flip town the game won't be over.
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Don't worry your pretty shiny little head I'll make it clear who my scumreads and best towns are before I am lynched in 2 days.
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You would have to do more work to understand that the Chezinu rule doesn't require any read on Chezinu or in this case LS. Further, it's not particularly you obviously have no idea what my points are. You are hung up on you think Bugs is town so whatever I say is weird and thus scummy.
It is laughable that someone towns me for try hard night posting. This is something I can do just as easily as mafia or town.
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Final Vote Tally Day 1.
On June 10 2015 08:00 Blazinghand wrote:Day 1 Vote Count LightningStrike (8): wherebugsgo, Yamato77, Onegu, ShoCkeyy, Kickstart, The Shining, Breshke, batsnacks Bill Murray (1): FreezingFootStutters695 (3): Tubesock, Bill Murray , LightningStrikeNot voted (1): Stutters695 Currently, LightningStrike is set to be lynched!
Day 1 ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Remember to vote in thread, and cast withcraft votes via PM
Failure to vote in either category will result in a modkill.
This is the world you think we live in. That Bill Murray and I are the most likely scum. That LightningStrike was our partner and we not only defend him but vote the same guy at the end. I get that I'm too stupid and bad to see that I should blend in and just vote LS, but uh you think Bill Murray is going to bounce around like that at the end and NOT cash in on town cred? That he would not have already decided to bus LightningStrike till 30 minutes before hand? The same LightningStrike that has a really hard time posting as mafia on D2+? Really? Bill Murray. The same Bill Murray who is famous for his bans. That one. That guy doesn't seem like a dude who would have any trouble being forceful if he was mafia. It is laughable that you think he would be hesitant. But I am the stupid convoluted one that sucks. Uh huh.
You think that FreezingFoot would choose Bill Murray over LightningStrike in this case?
Sure it's possible to have 2 mafia up for lynch. I mean Wherebugsgo is fucking baller baddass then clearly top town player on this sight if he caught not just 1 but 2 mafia on D1.
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On June 11 2015 12:42 wherebugsgo wrote:
You people make everything so hard because you look at the wrong shit in the wrong way
What do you care what I am doing? You're "town" right and I'm your biggest scumread. Like, you were so quick to say you were goign to ignore FreezingFoot because he's so dumb that he obviously won't have anything useful to say. You say you are going to ignore Kickstart (I think you said it to him too) and of course you get all emotional and "ragequit" talking to Bill Murray and yet continue to engage me. Someone who is clearly fucking bonkers and stupid. Like the entire thread thinks so. But yet, you don't treat me like a lunatic.
Pretend I was posting like Alakaslam or Chezinu. Lots of people ignore them because they can't read them. If my stuff is so out there and stupid, why bother responding?
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EPT
