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On June 03 2015 22:32 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 21:50 Barakos wrote:On June 03 2015 21:18 Half the Sky wrote:
plotspot was likely mafia assuming the setup was balanced. But even stepping back from that, he had a lot of troll comments and spent way too much time justifying setup speculation to alignment instead of focusing on a more behaviour based approach. I know his method of posting was similar to NSM7 and he was MLed D1 so I wasn't sure he'd approach the game the same way he did then. I might be totally off here... but 2 rbs vs a cop + masons isn't really balanced, is it? Especially, when there is no role to protect the masons / the confirmed mason after a flip... GF, RB, goon vs cop, RB, masons made more sense in my eyes, that's why i harddefended plots... The masons don't need protecting. rb/rb/goon vs cop/mason/mason would be mostly ok, but having 2 roleblockers in a mini (or even in a larger normal) would just in general be very odd. The setup as it was was quite town-favoured, but not too bad, especially for a newbie game. tldr: 2 rbs vs cop/masons is more balanced than what occurred in this game
k, ty.
Just never saw double scum-rb here, i think... but then again.. i don't read all the games.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
no, nor have I outside themed games
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So here's the masterplan:
I was voting bunnies so fucking often. D2, D3, and it was really risky. Day 2, my vote would've been the decider to get her lynched. Day 3 - I couldn't know that bats would jump on Sulf and Dis would coinflip on Sulf, too. So we figured out that we needed the last scum member to have huge town cred. I wanted to vote on Sicklucker at the end of D4, he'd be lynched, flip town, boom boxerfred goes down, boom bunnies is so fucking confirmed that she can easily get the lynch on Dis, especially with plots playing strange and tictocks going all tinfoil-hatty. Of course there'd always be the possibility of me getting out of the lynch, I think at this point pushing Barakos wouldn't have been too hard, given that bunnies would not have been dead.
However, I misunderstood the lynching rule. I thought that whoever gets voted on most recently, dies. That made the whole plan blow up.
That error, in conjunction with SL's behaviour, really made me feel dumb. So I decided to grab a straw: plots' "yolo block". When I found out that this would not work, it was easy for me to claim that I was blocked, CC'ing SL. By now I think it would've been even better to have claimed that I was not blocked: I would only say that SL lied, even without CC'ing him, thus making Dis still a probable scum member.
If the lynch on SL would've gotten through, the game was still winnable. Even in the situation of CC'ing SL, I had a thing prepared: when he'd be lynched and flip town, I'd just say that he lied about having been blocked for the sake of confirming me scum. I think with tictocks alive as the decider between disinfo and me, this might have actually worked out.
However I'm not wasting another 48hrs + 24hrs + 24/48hrs on someone who's continuesly dragging the game in the mud. I'm here for the funsies, not for the frustrations. Therefore I conceded even before EoD. I think the chances of actually winning this game for scum were somewhere around 20-40%, depending on Dis' behaviour D4.
GG, thanks for the fun and the effort to all 
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EBWOP: also a shame that scott died on D1. 
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On June 03 2015 19:30 batsnacks wrote:
Boxerfred did really good this game, wow.
Hm why?
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Also, Dis, I love you for you posts. I really want to get to know your scum play, your town play feels like it's really easily to read. If you can play scum appearing in such a townie way, I'll never get a hold on you  .
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On June 03 2015 23:13 disformation wrote:Since my town play includes semi-sheeping and waffling a lot that might actually work.
Not if I can help it <3
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On June 03 2015 22:59 boxerfred wrote:So here's the masterplan: I was voting bunnies so fucking often. D2, D3, and it was really risky. Day 2, my vote would've been the decider to get her lynched. Day 3 - I couldn't know that bats would jump on Sulf and Dis would coinflip on Sulf, too. So we figured out that we needed the last scum member to have huge town cred. I wanted to vote on Sicklucker at the end of D4, he'd be lynched, flip town, boom boxerfred goes down, boom bunnies is so fucking confirmed that she can easily get the lynch on Dis, especially with plots playing strange and tictocks going all tinfoil-hatty. Of course there'd always be the possibility of me getting out of the lynch, I think at this point pushing Barakos wouldn't have been too hard, given that bunnies would not have been dead. However, I misunderstood the lynching rule. I thought that whoever gets voted on most recently, dies. That made the whole plan blow up. That error, in conjunction with SL's behaviour, really made me feel dumb. So I decided to grab a straw: plots' "yolo block". When I found out that this would not work, it was easy for me to claim that I was blocked, CC'ing SL. By now I think it would've been even better to have claimed that I was not blocked: I would only say that SL lied, even without CC'ing him, thus making Dis still a probable scum member. If the lynch on SL would've gotten through, the game was still winnable. Even in the situation of CC'ing SL, I had a thing prepared: when he'd be lynched and flip town, I'd just say that he lied about having been blocked for the sake of confirming me scum. I think with tictocks alive as the decider between disinfo and me, this might have actually worked out. However I'm not wasting another 48hrs + 24hrs + 24/48hrs on someone who's continuesly dragging the game in the mud. I'm here for the funsies, not for the frustrations. Therefore I conceded even before EoD. I think the chances of actually winning this game for scum were somewhere around 20-40%, depending on Dis' behaviour D4. GG, thanks for the fun and the effort to all
Wow nice plans, would have looved to see that in action. (= Especially the first one with you getting bussed by bunnies.
For the second one though, I think you are overestimating your chances, no way you have even 1 chance out of 5 that TT doesn't vote you after you CC and lynch SL. plot even made a super nice graph sealing your doom IMO.
Anyway you played really good (= looking forward for next game!
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On June 03 2015 23:29 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 22:59 boxerfred wrote:So here's the masterplan: I was voting bunnies so fucking often. D2, D3, and it was really risky. Day 2, my vote would've been the decider to get her lynched. Day 3 - I couldn't know that bats would jump on Sulf and Dis would coinflip on Sulf, too. So we figured out that we needed the last scum member to have huge town cred. I wanted to vote on Sicklucker at the end of D4, he'd be lynched, flip town, boom boxerfred goes down, boom bunnies is so fucking confirmed that she can easily get the lynch on Dis, especially with plots playing strange and tictocks going all tinfoil-hatty. Of course there'd always be the possibility of me getting out of the lynch, I think at this point pushing Barakos wouldn't have been too hard, given that bunnies would not have been dead. However, I misunderstood the lynching rule. I thought that whoever gets voted on most recently, dies. That made the whole plan blow up. That error, in conjunction with SL's behaviour, really made me feel dumb. So I decided to grab a straw: plots' "yolo block". When I found out that this would not work, it was easy for me to claim that I was blocked, CC'ing SL. By now I think it would've been even better to have claimed that I was not blocked: I would only say that SL lied, even without CC'ing him, thus making Dis still a probable scum member. If the lynch on SL would've gotten through, the game was still winnable. Even in the situation of CC'ing SL, I had a thing prepared: when he'd be lynched and flip town, I'd just say that he lied about having been blocked for the sake of confirming me scum. I think with tictocks alive as the decider between disinfo and me, this might have actually worked out. However I'm not wasting another 48hrs + 24hrs + 24/48hrs on someone who's continuesly dragging the game in the mud. I'm here for the funsies, not for the frustrations. Therefore I conceded even before EoD. I think the chances of actually winning this game for scum were somewhere around 20-40%, depending on Dis' behaviour D4. GG, thanks for the fun and the effort to all Wow nice plans, would have looved to see that in action. (= Especially the first one with you getting bussed by bunnies. For the second one though, I think you are overestimating your chances, no way you have even 1 chance out of 5 that TT doesn't vote you after you CC and lynch SL. plot even made a super nice graph sealing your doom IMO. Anyway you played really good (= looking forward for next game!
As soon as he CCed SL, his chances of winning the game is 0% imo. His chances to make the vote between him and Dis, and people going for Dis is about 1%, especially since Tictock, Bara, SL and Dis read him scum. After Dis dies, his chance of getting SL lynched is about 1% too.
Originally I thought of sticking to the plan too, but then I saw Tictcok was still not out of his tunnel, despite his claim. He has done said to let it off 3 times, but his huge post where he imagined in detail as to what a scum!plots was doing, just indicates to me that he will come back and scumread me again. I'm not mad about him for doing this; but I have to take this into consideration. If I announced I RB SL to confirm him town, BF was very likely to kill SL, to use his chances with Tictock. He indicated that in his Scum QT. Tictock would be more like WTF? This guy blocked 3 times the NK? Something is wrong here, again. We could have deflected it and point it out to him again why if Barakos is town than I'm Town RB, but since that night he also had a new reason: I was still Mafia RB, who blocked the 3 NK, but made an exception for Barakos because we were sure Breshke was not a Vet and hence doesn't need to be RBed. It's totally low risk to just kill someone without blocking him. I basically had to do it like this, this plan only worked if I had Tictock's support 100%, because it included me still living in some scenarios. If he was still tunneled and believed I was some masterplan mafia, it would have been too dangerous, or at least inconvenient to me again. Plus Barakos and Tictock showed some uncertainty about SL that night. So I thought I'd rather clear him and let him deal with whoever is CCing him.
A pity really, I'd love to see a flavour where nothing happened at night.
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I didn't read much into BF's last minute vote on SL. I thought he knew that it wasn't going to decisive and just voted him for fun because he thought SL was scummy and just wanted to express his sentiments with the vote.
I might be biased here. But I do not understand this whole concept of wasting votes and so on, if you see some person getting lynched and you're fine with it, then you could vote for the moon and it doesn't matter. Hence I never unvoted Dis D1, just to go on the Scott wagon.
The bunnies vs SL wagon was much more interesting as both were 2v2, and since I wanted bunnies dead (also to clarify her status, it's too dangerous to leave some sort of 80% townie around, and I felt she clinged a bit too hard on the greencheck) I had to vote her first, I thought BF realized bunnies is 100% dead and just switches to SL for fun. I know if I was BF, I would have done it.^^
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On that thought, I think the official declaration that come into the thread, based on the questions of individual players, has great potential to give away things. Maybe you can just pm that person, if someone is confused they should pm the host.
Boxerfred thinking his vote might have saved bunnies is in retrospect sort of indicative from how this clearance was posted immediately. While it didn't 100% trigger my suspicion, because for me another person might have wondered about it, it sure led to many people use this as evidence for scumreading BF.
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On June 03 2015 20:39 plotspot wrote:
wow, I wake up to find the game ends? WTF? LOL I wanted to watch how Tictock tunnels on someone else. XD
As soon as I saw I'm dead, I immediately knew this was gonna be interesting between SL and BF. BF should have not CC but push for a lynch between him and dis. With dis dieing he could have hold hit shot on N5 and then mylo it, to maybe push a lynch on SL. But yeah too dangerous, dis is basically town the whole game, SL was believed to be town by both Barakos and Tictock.
I was also interested in seeing what SL would do against the odds. Of course you don't trust me, I was very random in my choices, time and time again I didn't block the person I specified. You have to trust your instincts. Of course I didn't randomize anything, nor via the host nor via anything.
The thing was if I announced blocking SL, BF the way he is could really just kill him, and till the end Tictock still didn't believe me to be Town RB. I didn't want to deal with this any longer on D5, but invented shit about randomizing so mafia would kill me 100%. I trusted we still have Barakos left, my lifeline the whole game, to carry it out to the end. The BF CCed was our victory 100%. I also said in my very last sentence: guy who is blocked should announce, then he gets CC by mafia and the third is town. If BF was really blocked he would have never waited so long, only as mafia you're not sure whether I blocked Dis or SL and then come out and CC.
if he killed me the game would have been over STILL. you rly should have just said and save me a brain annerism
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ya that 20-40% chance of winning is just wrong. Its like 1%. I mean I like the effort but everyone was confirmed. you woulda had to like keep plots in the game and have you ticktock/plots f3 or something
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0% with the final 5 we had
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You shouldnt play newbie games
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Mafia is like verbal fencing. You were practicing drunken boxing. Im really pissed towards your behaviour. So i said this now, gonna shut up about it now. By the way my coach even advised me to keep on playing since its at least worth the experience. Really sl never play a newbie game again.
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I will say that the setup was heavily favored towards town. Granted, the D1 lynch was very bad for mafia. But RB + Cop in a setup with delivered (instead of factional) KP shouldn't exist in a mini. RB acts as both cop and medic in many regards; on top of that when a mafia RB is almost assured you can almost catch either the attacker or the RB due to claims. If role blocks were not announced, it would be a better overall setup IMO.
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Here I can only quote what cakepie said earlier:
On June 03 2015 17:01 cakepie wrote:
SL, it is not up to you to decide the rules. If you take issue with something in game, you raise it with the hosts (which you did) and then you let the hosts do their thing. You do not EVER take matters into your own hands, and breaking the rules NEVER helps.
SL, regardless of your opinion of his odds it was completely inappropriate to go down that road. I'm sure cakepie will have further comments with the postmortem post with respect to both this and the setup discussion. Until then I will refrain from adding anything further other than to please ask everyone to remain civil. Issues and concerns raised have been noted.
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So I read most of this game and I have to say i'm really impressed with a lot of the newbie plays this game.
It was a really good game to read I think. Box realy really good play I can't wait to see you in a normal game. Not to bad yourself tick, gotta work on the tunnel a little bit but it will come in time.
Is town favored but it was still a good game.
Well played all
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EPT
