EPT(This won't start before the weekend I hope.)
Newbie Student Mafia IX
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
(This won't start before the weekend I hope.) | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
My beloved scummate Celestial! <3 *pours you some whiskey* Congrats on (nearly) having finished your PhD! Must be chuffed to get it all done with! You definitely deserve a few good shots of whiskey! | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Good to see you back. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On April 22 2015 14:10 Bill Murray wrote: i would love a few shots you lovely folk If you ever roll scum with me you'll learn it pretty quick: One shot for a successful night kill. Three shots for a successful mislynch. Endgaming town? Finish the bottle  *pours you a shot of Glenfiddich* | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On April 22 2015 18:57 sicklucker wrote: Maybe in to show celestial and hts what tis all about We've already been scum mates as well <3 | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On April 23 2015 05:12 y0su wrote: tempted... tell me more :D You will have a blast. We will corrupt you! And people here are loads fun to play with But you will have a coach to guide you too. You can't go wrong. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
 | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On April 23 2015 22:30 kitaman27 wrote: Ah yes, this wouldn't be possible without HTS's generous financial contribution. I except to receive it any day now. Alternatively, I can ship out the latest batch of snow we got this morning -_- Generous financial contribution? Bah, Kita, work your magic. It's raining wine where you live (yeh yeh I'm a wine fanatic. I took a trip to the NE US last year, including the Finger Lakes, I fell in love with that area pretty fast) But I will never understand the weather patterns in the NE US. WTF? >_< Although I am being told at work that I might be NYC-bound again for another business trip.....someone kill me please. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On April 24 2015 21:12 Tictock wrote: Kinda hoping more ppl sign up soon. Would be nice if this got started before next week as I start a new job. Oh well, I'll still have time... just not as much. Veterans joining aren't going to be the issue, one mini just finished this morning and there are two more in progress. The real kickers are getting enough people in the newbie category to join. If you know people from TL or if you came from another mafia site to here, definitely pull your friends in! Edit: there are actually THREE minis in progress. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On April 27 2015 22:59 kitaman27 wrote: So how did things go? New course record? :p Bahaha, I'm not that good. But I PRed massively, and (somehow) I managed to qualify for Boston though not by much, still really thrilled at all how it went. There was rain on and off the first 6-8 miles of the course, so that was extremely annoying but it got better. Although, I am cringing at the decision to commit and go next spring if I should survive the registration process (which is a pain in the bum) nevermind the cost of getting to Boston. My in-laws live there ironically, so I'd in theory have a place to stay, but still, airfare from Europe in of itself is a joke. :/ Still training for a full is very time intensive, and it's not a light decision no matter which race it is. That said, my legs are still damned sore. And I mean damned sore. Ice bags will be my best friend the next several hours. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On April 27 2015 23:36 prplhz wrote: PRed? also grats on marathon very impressiveCheers <3 PR (personal record)/PB (personal best) - basically same thing, you've beaten your previously best time. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On April 29 2015 21:47 disformation wrote: As I already mentioned I've read Newbie Student Mafia VIII. Currently I am reading Newbie Student Mafia VIII (halfway done). Since it seems like this one will take a bit till it starts: Can the Vets recommend me some good Mafias to read? Though I should probably not only read them but try to analyse the plays of people I would have read wrong afterwards. Not sure if will actually get around to that. xD I would say as a beginner stick to the 13-player or 9 player games in terms of reading. Obv different if you choose to play in a large game, which I did do for my second game ever on TL, that's your perogative, and is a good way to mix up even if you ARE inexperienced. But for reading: Newbie LX: Not much the game itself, but geript (as mafia coach) provides a great out of game analysis (page 62) on how to take apart people's posts. This and any other game with external analysis would be great to read as a beginner. (My only game whilst here that I've played with external, so if others have other suggestions, that'd be helpful, even for me.) Student VI: Pretty easy read and textbook game. You will find that in a number of games mafia may be comprised of a team that either doesn't fancy playing mafia or gets caught out too easily, this I recall as one of them. Slytherin Mini and Linux Mini Mafia are also easy reads, and Linux lasted shorter with two modkills. Still you get a sense for how people play in different formats/styles. Hammertime Mafia - 9 player game, pure vanilla and instant majority lynch. Very spammy game, but same deal as the two vet games I mentioned, even if IML doesn't get played often here. Most games here are plurality, no post restriction, and PMs are not allowed. There have been some exceptions. I honestly think you'll get a good sense of the diversity of play and the type of players you'll be on with around here and how games go in general. I'd also recommend Horn of Africa and Debauchery but those two games had very (generally speaking) high-level play, and were very spammy, so they might not be the easiest reads for a beginner, but only if you have loads of time to spare. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On April 30 2015 06:41 The Shining wrote: There's a scum team reunion here I'd like to get revenge on. No. Just no. I think I have a few bullets from that endgame... ##shoot The Shining Anyone else want to crash the party? (crickets chirping) Didn't think so <3 | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 02 2015 11:10 kitaman27 wrote: Speak for yourself  Kita loves cracking his whip. I forgot... God help us all. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 03 2015 02:48 Fecalfeast wrote: pregame excuse: I am fecalfeast FF is a natural born Mafia. Scumclaim right there. ##vote Fecalfeast <3 | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 03 2015 04:38 y0su wrote: BTW (and I probably should have asked earlier) does it matter too much that I'm in a really early timezone? (3h ahead of UK) Keep in mind not every moderator has the same deadline time - it varies from game to game. This game's deadline is midnight for me, and it is probably the latest I prefer it. Tried a NA-friendly deadline (5am in my case) in Titanic and that was a bit uncomfortable trying to play the way I wanted to for EoD. It's not mandatory to be around EoD (end of day) but a lot of players generally try to, if there is a last minute vote switch (or "shennanies") or if there are other plays like claims/day actions, etc. We have had Asians/Aussies play and their deadlines are ungodly early. Breshke in particular I have no idea how he does it. Don't think Oatsmaster (who's in Singapore) has it easy either. But they carry on. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Any pertinent issues that need focused on in the meantime? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Pages 8-9 - really don't like either of Superbia's or prp's entrances. There's sarcasm on the people (Scott and Shining) whose posts they were picking on - it appears like they are making something out of nothing. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Really not liking Superbia at all. I'm seeing a lot of questions which is okay, but no preliminary conclusions from them, not yet. The vote on me was pure policy, and generally a vet like him would go policy (on anyone) only if there was a total lack of scumreads. Pressure voting is okay, but this goes back to my first sentence, no conclusions from the questions he has asked. If he's concluded people look townie and then wants to policy vote, then that's another issue. That doesn't appear to be the case from what I read. I've yet to play with Scott as town (or observe him as town) as scum I recall a lot of his arguments being contrived. He feels natural so far. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 04 2015 05:23 Tictock wrote: I'm getting pretty strong town vibes from y0su, disformation, and ritoky. I really like disformation's attempts to poke and ask questions. y0su is my weakest read of these 3, but feels like a solid town. Can you define what you mean by "vibes" particularly with y0su and ritoky? Do you mean a tone read (which to my understanding most consider weak) or was there a particular quote/page/interaction that solidifies them as town? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Stutters is someone that I think needs to wait until D2 or after to conclude. I don't know what his scum meta is and I played in NSM 7, and his play mirrors that here - not really into D1 and only really picked it up afterwards with more information. He was town in NSM 7 but his D1 play in of itself can come from either alignment. Null for now. prplhz is someone who does jack all and posts nearly jack all in his scum games, Titanic being the most recent example. But since he says he wasn't around, I'll focus on what he posted when he was: On May 03 2015 08:41 prplhz wrote: like he's trying to make up some excuse for being useless and then he tries to solve the game and that like 30 posts into the game I'm assuming he's drawing a scumread on Shining from his first quote. Thing is, I know both Shining and prplhz have played enough games to understand the concept of the "bullshitting phase of the game" and that post was sarcastic enough that prplhz probably should have picked up on it or at least waited to see what else Shining had or if he further pushed what he thought were his scumreads. To me that latter quote looks like prplhz is trying to make himself look good. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
The other problem I have with Scott reading his filter (and after page 15 again) is not only that he didn't check Superbia's rationale/whatever but typically if you sheep someone you obviously want to be sure that the person in question is town. Going through his filter, he said he was going to keep an eye on the vets, Superbia being one of them. But if you look at page 1 of Scott's filter, there is not even an inference that he's concluding that Superbia is town nor does he appear confident in the former's reads before sheeping him. So that's another reason to scumread Scott for sure. To further elaborate on Scott's approach to the game, as I've said in other games, going after inactives isn't bad in of itself, but only after you've townread most others and you're deeper into the game. It's generally never a good thing for town agenda to do it D1 and not everyone right now is active enough to even attempt PoE. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 04 2015 20:59 sicklucker wrote: Im pretty sure we coached him to doing a list post so I kind of expect him to do it. Why are listposts frowned apon there my fav. Same. I didn't have a problem with it, but there were at least 2-3 comments I read from others that they didn't like listposts or that listposts were scummy. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 03 2015 19:58 Superbia wrote: Celestial likely mafai. Introductory lists posts like that more often come from mafia than from town. Mafia feel like they need to contribute and are usually afraid to make a casual entry. This part I'm not going to consider either way, and if Superbia somehow is town, he doesn't know Celestial's style of play (whereas both SL and I do) so this part is reasonable for him not knowing Celestial. However we carry on - On May 03 2015 19:58 Superbia wrote: The entire thing also starts off with an excuse: + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 11:34 -Celestial- wrote: Hey guys. Sorry for the late entry. I've been somewhat distracted playing KanColle recently; there's an event on and I'm desperate to clear it, first event I've been in. Anyway there's probably just about enough to write something on most people now so...off we go. Unfortunately in the time I've been away I've NOT been keeping an eye on games going on. Then again I tend to prefer any meta reading from games people have actually been in together. On with the show: What are you apologizing for? This feels like you yourself don't have any faith in your reads. This is likely because you had to fabricate them due to being mafia, because you feel confident enough to start a wagon on scott. Also, starting off with an apology for being late is pretty mafia. This second part above, I simply interpreted Celestial just disregarding meta and drawing his own conclusions based on his following list post. Yes, what Superbia quoted there was preamble, and IIRC, Celestial did get a few scum reads for not posting prior to that list post. But his comment was also not the first on disregarding meta reads (I know one of the newbies mentioned that too, disinf maybe?), and that said I don't think there's anything wrong with an apology - he follows up with a list of reads based on what he has. I think "not having any faith" in his reads isn't an appropriate comment at all, in fact I think he's just making Celestial look bad. The comment would be more applicable to someone who makes excuses like "well it's D1 and D1 reads are trash" then yeh saying that is fine, but this isn't the case. What part of the quote are you reading that way? On May 03 2015 19:58 Superbia wrote: There's also a flagrant disparity between what you say about disformation and ritoky (which leads me to believe both are town if you end up being mafia): + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2015 11:34 -Celestial- wrote: disformation starting post I REALLY don't like. However he IS making an attempt to start producing reads. Earnest newbie with a weak entry I think. Weakly town. ritoky's sole post of note is an easy push on disformation. Other than that he's just posting nonsense and off-topic stuff. Coming across as pretty scummy to me; complete misdirection plays. So you say that you yourself did not like disformation's opening post, but you feel like ritoky is scummy for pushing on him? Is it not townie for ritoky to push on something that may very well be scummy? Furthermore, "easy push"? Since when are you so sure that disformation is town? Rest of your reads are pretty fluffy. I looked at ritoky's opening post which I also thought was pretty bad On May 03 2015 09:54 ritoky wrote: i randomly clicked to a page, and there was a disformation guy or girl....w8 no girls on internet, must be guy. anywayz dat dude was liek full of smileyz and shit everywhere. i don't like people who spam emoticons. top scum read. Then he mentions it's bullshit because he's loopy or whatever, but his later posts - particularly the one where he checks Superbia for not providing anything alignment indicative on SL aside from the pressure vote is quite townie to me. Ritoky that is. But back to Superbia. One of the things I've made clear in a lot of my games is that it's not the push on someone (esp a newbie or a weak player) that makes someone scummy, it's how that push is done. That said, looking at Superbia's quote, ritoky may have had a "bad" reason (smileys) to push on disinformation but from what I read of disinformation's entry post THAT IS NOT THE SAME REASON WHY CELESTIAL HAD A PROBLEM WITH THAT POST. He didn't comment on his smileys at all - his first post gave zero information and you can tell from Celestial's phrasing that his point on disinformation is JUST on that. [spoiler] On May 03 2015 11:34 -Celestial- wrote: disformation starting post I REALLY don't like. However he IS making an attempt to start producing reads. Earnest newbie with a weak entry I think. Weakly town. And again, more context problems with Superbia's "easy push" - doesn't mean he's saying that disinformation or anyone is town. Easy pushes generally mean the player is weak - that comment was made because he's new to TL (first game) and not because he was so sure disinformation is town. Even Celestial himself said "weakly town." That post is quite scumlike behaviour from Superbia. It's so bad. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Shining, Celestial look town. ritoky weak town lean. prplhz slight scum lean. Stutters is null, same for sicklucker. I will look at disinformation, yosu, and ticktock next, after I get off this conference call. At this point in time, I can vote either of Superbia or scott. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 04 2015 20:45 sicklucker wrote: I might just leave my vote on scott. First impresions are usually the best Looking at why you voted Scott, I assume you mean his entry. No issues with your vote on Scott. If so, what are your impressions of some of others' first posts? Because Scott isn't the only one with a poor first entry to be honest. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I want Superbia to respond when he's around. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 04 2015 22:13 y0su wrote: That said, I'm still not shaking the strange feeling that you're trying too hard to get a ML.. (hence I'm not jumping on the scott train yet.) Have your feelings towards ritoky changed? I still see his "loopy" entrance as a red flag (as big if not bigger than people that haven't been posting). I know you are new to the game, but someone making a scumread on someone early in the day and then pushing him throughout the day is considered a town tell across the board because it shows the person pushing the case believes in the case and he's not just faking it for survivability's sake. If you think the reasoning behind the case is faulty (do you?) then that's another issue. Regarding ritoky (and others) - as I said with sicklucker it's very possible to have a very poor entrance and then pick it up later on. Some people are good at spotting mafia off the first post, particularly the established players like marvellosity/Holyflare/JAT but this is a newbie game, so the calibre isn't expected to be the same. Do you think ritoky looks bad from subsequent posts? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 04 2015 22:21 Half the Sky wrote: If you think the reasoning behind the case is faulty (do you?) then that's another issue. EBWOP - clarification - do you (y0su) think Celestial's reasoning behind the case is faulty? And if so, what are the specifics you have problems with? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 04 2015 02:00 ritoky wrote: prp is town because i literally mind melded him here: Question for ritoky - prp has four posts. I took a different conclusion from this post. How do you know that Shining wasn't being sarcastic for him to rub you the wrong way? Opening hour/bullshit phase of the game, these comments were made. (From your mind meld comment, I assume you had scummed Shining for this too.) | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 04 2015 22:23 -Celestial- wrote: ritoky is eh to me right now. I still don't like the joking around and there's a certain amount of circumstantial evidence linking him with Superbia. But he's also been making more of an effort that he was initially (admittedly that's not hard). Still leaning scum, but on balance I don't think his position has changed too much in my eyes. He's still scummy but still my weakest read and I could be convinced otherwise on him much more easily than scott or Superbia. ritoky is a very good scum player, so I do fear him generally speaking. However, for this game, I am also taking into context he doesn't know some of the players as well as I do. For example his read on Shining is likely wrong - between hosting and playing with Shining, I know Shining to be a very emotional player as both alignments (though more so as town I think) so his tone doesn't bother me whereas ritoky is seeing Shining as overreacting. For him not knowing Shining (don't recall those two playing together) his read on Shining is reasonable. The problem I do have with ritoky on this read is that he's willing to lynch Shining on what appears to be a tone read whereas earlier he's questioned Scott 3x in page 2 of his own filter, and then he indicates again he has a problem with Scott's gameplay. More substantive than a tone read. It should take precedence over a tone read. In theory anyways. On May 04 2015 09:08 ritoky wrote: overreact much? way too defensive in response to the tiniest of comments. as for why the way you phrase things bugs the living shit out of me; it is pretty much irrelevant to explain. you're just kinda like sqrtneg1 i think. everything you type regardless of content or alignment indicativeness just makes me want to lynch you. i need to train myself to try and read the content rather than just want to lynch you. for example: i avoided getting bothered here and noted your large overreaction, which pushes you toward being more scum. Then I read sentences like the bolded and it very well could be a townie tripping over confirmation bias. I like how ritoky questioned Superbia for not providing the alignment indicative info on SL though. He also seemed trying to find something on y0su in figuring his alignment. Though he couldn't conclude because he left open the fact y0su's gameplay was due to the fact he's newish and offered him advice. Could be done as either alignment. For now, as I had stated, I still maintain that light townread on him. I'd have to see more. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 04 2015 22:47 y0su wrote: And if something is considered a town tell wouldn't scum jump on an opportunity to do it (if they thought they could pull it off)? I'd assume that especially in a newbie game a gamble like that would have less risk and more reward... ML is how they win right? I haven't found any fault in the case (again, first one I've read) and I have nothing but that uncomfortable feeling towards -c- keeping me from voting Scott... Yes. In a 13-person setup, assuming no medic saves and no vigilante, scum need 4 mislynches to win. Yes a top player can easily look town in a sea of scummy looking town players. But like I said, it's not THAT the push is happening, it's HOW the push is happening that usually differentiates town from scum. Earlier = more towny for example. More consistent pushes. There has to be solid evidence (i.e. a DT check) for him to back off, or a scum flip off one of his solid townreads to work backwards for someone to consider changing their read. I gather that this "uncomfortable feeling" towards Celestial is a tone read, and I can infer that you have some sort of weak scum read based on his tone. But surely there's a post somewhere that has stoked this feeling given the content Celestial has pointed and the fact you have mentioned this feeling twice. Can you point it out? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 04 2015 02:41 y0su wrote: well, that's the problem, look at the biggest back and forth we've had: -c- vs scott. -c- came in with what I feel was a very bold 1st post (list) that bugged me. why would he pick 3 scum out of the active players and and let others slide just because he didn't have a read (afk/low post count)? he had some decent points, but was it all to put on pressure or to start swaying people? without experience, it doesn't feel like something town would do (and this is -c-'s 2nd game afaik) that followed into the rather aggressive finger pointing with scott. I had a weird feel from him from the start and non of what -c- said helped him... but again it just feels like "an easy target" to try to get people to bandwagon. ...but all that leaves me is not wanting to vote for either one (yet). Alright, so I went back to this post of yours - this is where I think you had this bad feeling on Celestial. Now, let's take a slightly different approach. 1 Let's pretend Celestial doesn't exist. Look at Scott's filter alone. Independent of Celestial, what do you think of Scott? 2 There have been a few comments and respective reads on scumming afk players (like me, sicklucker), etc. Do you understand now why Celestial did what he did with low-content players? #2 made you uncomfortable on Celestial then the way I read this. Are you still uncomfortable now? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 04 2015 23:20 y0su wrote: It's two early things about -c-: The entire "tone" and timing of his first post followed by the relentless push towards scott. This just seems then things like followed by It's just sounds like -c- is willing to do anything to get scott (even if he's not scum?)... I do like the read on scott and haven't found anything wrong in the case. Gah. Alright, if you were a vet I'd be throwing you in the scum pile, to be honest. Even as a newbie, I think you are pretty poor at the moment. Your last two posts indicate to me you aren't reading the thread at the very least, or not considering/ignoring context, and I'll illustrate why. Starting with the above: 1 You are saying that the relentless push towards Scott is bold for someone to do in their 2nd game. "2nd game" indicates newbie, and that a newbie cannot make bold reads. Celestial has already indicated he is disregarding meta (which requires experience) twice over before you drew a conclusion on him (timestamps), which should be a justification for how he's making reads, and if (likely) he's town, it's reasonable that he should be trusting his own reads way more than other people's interpretation of meta: On May 03 2015 11:34 -Celestial- wrote: Hey guys. Sorry for the late entry. I've been somewhat distracted playing KanColle recently; there's an event on and I'm desperate to clear it, first event I've been in. Anyway there's probably just about enough to write something on most people now so...off we go. Unfortunately in the time I've been away I've NOT been keeping an eye on games going on. Then again I tend to prefer any meta reading from games people have actually been in together. On with the show: On May 03 2015 21:44 -Celestial- wrote: I have absolute confidence in my reads actually. My comment about keeping an eye on games was meant to be directed at the fact that I'm not using people's prior game experience as a source of info because I was expecting people to throw the usual "he/she/I alway(s) plays like this!" stuff at me in response to my reads. I mean why would experience be required to make bold town reads? Meta reads are not the only way to scumhunt and he's already acknowledged he is ignoring a method that requires experience. On May 04 2015 02:41 y0su wrote: without experience, it doesn't feel like something town would do (and this is -c-'s 2nd game afaik) 2 The contradiction in your final sentence. You think Celestial is willing to do anything to get Scott, yet you say now you like the read on Scott, which covers (at least) the same points for basis that Celestial had in his initial scumread. Your hesistation on voting Scott comes from a bad feeling you had about Celestial. That basis does NOT change when he presents the case now on Celestial. I saw your quotes. The first one (absolute confidence) he's already justified and I re-illustrated it. The second one I think you are taking out of context. You aren't even evaluating the context that Celestial is putting it in. On May 03 2015 21:44 -Celestial- wrote: You're misrepresenting things again here. I already said in my last post that of my three red reads it was the weakest, AND that it wasn't just for the push on disinformation. Stop trying to pretend that it was solely for that push. I didn't like disinformation's opening post, no. But ultimately disinformation has posted stuff other than that so far. ritoky's actions up to that point had been to post garbage and pressure disinformation. Literally nothing else. disinformation's other posts make me somewhat think he's just a very newbie town player with a bad opening post. ritoky on the other hand hadn't posted anything at all to make me think he's not just trying to distract from mafia hunting. Given that both you and scott are scum, ritoky was the one who seemed to be looking to misdirect the most at that point. >Claiming that a post containing two and a half town reads, three red reads and a bunch of nulls on people who are primarily inactive or new is fluffy in an attempt to make me look wishy-washy and unconfident. Nice try, but you've just confirmed you're mafia. This chainsaw defence you're using for your scum buddy scott proves it. You're attacking his attacker, which is scummy as hell. Admittedly there's an outside chance that you're just OMGUSing me, but I think you're too experienced a player to do that, you're instead trying to save your buddy. At a guess you've told him in the mafia QT to shut up for a bit and stop making himself look worse whilst you try to get a different train going by undermining me and take the heat off him. I've highlighted the key words in bold. Now to be fair, I can't tell if he's saying that ritoky or Superbia is "confirmed" mafia. I think he means Superbia here. But either way he justifies where his reads are coming from, and that's observable behaviour. He's offering a motive, yes the motive could be flawed since it's pre-associative flips (which a lot of people do as both alignments), but ultimately it's not one that requires experience. So as I questioned in my previous post, I can't figure out why you're still hesistant to vote Scott if you don't like Scott based on a case you seemed okay with. You don't like the person that cased him but I can't see where you've evaluated 1) his case for flaws and 2) the context on which you are scumreading him on. It's circular reasoning that quite frankly not only makes my head spin, but makes me wonder if you're coming up with a read for the sake of coming up with a read. Am I making sense? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 00:51 y0su wrote: I was thinking about it at the store... I think my tone problem with -c- is that he comes off as emotional. Like I said (and was asked of me) I'm definitely re-reading the case, scott's filter and the entire thread. @ritoky appreciate you straight up calling me wrong :D I guess if this is an "all in" attempt to get a ML it wouldn't be very good d1 play cause we'd just go after -c- d2? If you are town, you might be having the same problem as ritoky then. I was on that very same scum team with Celestial (with sicklucker as one of our two coaches) and I can tell you exactly how emotional he was. geript, myself, etc tried to calm him down. He had mentioned he was such as both alignments. If you go to his filter in the database and then click on the # of that thread, you get the full thread for Newbie LX. In the endgame post, you can click on the mafia qt and you'll know what I mean. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 00:51 ritoky wrote: This part. It could very well come from mafia trying to set up a place to dump the blame if the lynch is sour. You're making excuses/plans before the flip has occurred; tends to happen with some1 who has no confidence in their read or is trying to shove off the blame. ALSO why you give me no credit for that "we" thing? That was totes me who found that. ROOD AS FUK! Okay, this is a fair point. But I see this statement from both alignments. Second question for ritoky then, as a veteran surely by now, you've seen others make the same statements from townies commenting on players who might be playing suboptimally or whose town meta is close to scum meta (think batsnacks, kushm4sta, Blazinghand, sicklucker, LightningStrike, etc). Why is it (or do you think it is) unreasonable to imagine Celestial could be making such an observation as town? The mafia rationale makes sense, but why wouldn't the town rationale for this same statement? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 01:08 y0su wrote: @hts, I get what I've been missing... (see my last post). If scum pushes super hard for a d1 that just leaves town with an easy d2 target. So pushing hard d1 (especially that "early") would be a town move. Alright, fair enough. Just caught that after I posted. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 00:50 sicklucker wrote: So we def kill scott. Then if he flips scum we def kill super. If not maybe hts? I donno this seems solid tho I agree with you on Scott and Super, but why am I poor? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 01:08 y0su wrote: @hts, I get what I've been missing... (see my last post). If scum pushes super hard for a d1 that just leaves town with an easy d2 target. So pushing hard d1 (especially that "early") would be a town move. On May 05 2015 01:11 y0su wrote: based on that, (unless someone can explain why that would be wrong) -c- goes town for me. If you aren't voting Scott at this point, then why and then whom do you think is a stronger candidate? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 01:14 Stutters695 wrote: Prpl still missing I see. Completely MIA today. He's only an hour ahead of me, so I'd have expected something of some sort. Shocking. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 01:19 -Celestial- wrote: Look, HtS should be an easy read later in the game. I know from the last game on the mafia side she tends to drink shots when things are going well for her side. So if things start going badly for town and HtS appears to be increasingly drunk we just lynch her then. ROFLMAO. I also did that in Void as mafia vanilla. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 01:26 ritoky wrote: i like hts because she is keying into the same posts as me i dislike hts because she is having opposite reactions to them. I noticed this as well (opposite reactions, in the 1-2 examples I drew up) and there are reasons for this in the world that we are both town especially D1. One possible reason is knowledge of players versus lack of knowledge (Shining for instance) and second I personally try and ignore tone with people unless it's the only thing I have and even if it is, it's a weak read, and I try to keep my eyes more to other things. You also admitted earlier you need to work on looking past tone. In the case of Shining I can see exactly why you have a different reaction to him than I did. And I highlighted that already. If you are scum, that wouldn't be the reason for it. Even when I look at you and knowing how well you play scum, I am still trying to keep an open mind and find both town and scum rationales for your behaviour or others who I potentially have trouble figuring out. That includes the newbies. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 01:33 -Celestial- wrote: Stutters CLAIMS that he doesn't really do day 1. Given that we have a couple of high potential lynch targets already I'm okay with not lynching him day 1 for that but I'm expecting huge things for day 2 as a result. 100% | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 04 2015 05:23 Tictock wrote: Both Superbia and The Shining made some eyebrow raising early game plays, but they appear to be contributing now and I can easily see the early game stuff being sillyness or just attempts at pressure. No real reads on them. I'm getting pretty strong town vibes from y0su, disformation, and ritoky. I really like disformation's attempts to poke and ask questions. y0su is my weakest read of these 3, but feels like a solid town. Everyone else... well there simply isn't enough out of prplhz or sicklucker to really go off of. Not much to go off of Stutters695 either, another person who states he "doesn't do day 1" which is pretty meh but NAI. Pretty much all I got for now. On May 04 2015 16:16 Tictock wrote: I left HtS out of my earlier reads due to just joining the thread. That was awhile ago and HtS did not provide much besides some suspicions against Superbia. Getting a scum read for now until there is something to show otherwise. As for Superbia, I'm having a hard time getting a solid read now. I was getting a scum vibe from his play the first half of D1 here but he is looking more town here near the end of the day. I want to keep an eye on him but atm he doesn't seem like a good lynch. prplhz is looking pretty scum to me right now too. He made one post with actual content and even that was mostly an excuse as to why he isn't posting. Scott put himself in a position where he looked pretty bad, but lately he's bee making an effort and seems fairly calm given the suspicions around him. That feels town to me, he's not ignoring what ppl say about him but he's not focused on defending himself either. prp and HtS really need to contribute, SL and Stutters are also barely active & have contributed nothing solid thus far. I am really curious to see what Tictock has to say on Superbia particularly on the exchange between him and Celestial if he has any input or even between that and Shining. Both disinformation and myself are also headscratching on him at the moment, and one of my issues with Superbia is that particular exchange. I realise he's partying hard (happy birthday btw!) but look forward to a response when he returns. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
But if say Superbia were to respond to one of us and not the other, it would give us some room to question why. If that makes any sense. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 04:54 prplhz wrote: okay wtf deadline is tonight i don't know about scot31337. i got a good feeling about him pointing out that the shining was joking when other people couldn't see it. i also don't feel like lynching into some new guy for hardly any reason, did that way too much in last student mini. actually i'd much rather lynch hts. hts pointing out last game that it was obvious we were going in the wrong direction when we lynched a new guy for the third day in a row but now she doesn't mind continuing for a fourth day in a row? i don't know the cases on scot31337 don't speak to me at all and one of them is by celestial that i also have a bad feeling about (that people don't share for some reason). also hts is scum reading me for saying shining's entrance was super odd, but she's not scum reading the people who felt the same thing about it? FF ritoky super felt the same way, why is she picking me out of all players? ##Vote Half The Sky 1 Scott isn't new. Try again. 2 Not sure where you're getting the bolded from. Are you meta reading me? If you are, you are making a distorted comparison at best. See #1. Scott is not a new player, and certainly not in the same vein as disinformation, tictock, y0su. Did a bit of digging on y0su and he's looking okay after some questioning. 3 Final paragraph - read my filter. You said you caught up but clearly you missed that. Off one post, you were a weaker scumread and I stated that already. I had stronger scumreads in Scott and Superbia, also mentioned the latter's exchange with Shining. If you're accusing me of having easy scumreads then clearly you haven't read my posts on Superbia. Selective reading. Good job. /end sarcasm | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 04 2015 03:39 prplhz wrote: @superbia @ritoky what do you think about celestial? he is coming on as super tryhard, like nothing i've ever seen before. he stands out a lot compared to the general relaxed atmosphere in the thread. didn't filter him yet (dunno how much i can get out of that this early anyway) but it's just something that been sticking out a lot. also @superbia happy birthday! On May 05 2015 04:54 prplhz wrote: i don't know the cases on scot31337 don't speak to me at all and one of them is by celestial that i also have a bad feeling about (that people don't share for some reason). I'm probably one of the few not scumreading prplhz for solely lack of filter. But here's another problem with this. So prplhz, you say he has a bad feeling on celestial for being super tryhard. That was early D1. Now he says the same thing, even though Celestial has made some hard arguments against people other than Scott. No commentary whatsoever either way on Celestial's gameplay from mid to late D1. Also if you think the case against Scott is flawed, why? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 05:01 ritoky wrote: reasons being: you're noticing the same things i am but reading them opposite, you have an overly diplomatic tone that also feels forced, you're interested in a lot of things but not pushing for them, you don't feel obviously town, and your early reads were primarily summary reads that others had already made. 1 Already rationalised the opposite reads. If you agree to disagree, fine. 2 I've made points against my two top scumreads (additional against Scott/original against Superbia), neither of which are or have been in the thread as of late to further engage. But there are three scummers in this setup, so why not just keep digging and seeing what else turns up? 3 Diplomatic tone (reading what you just posted) was from one post. Go back to how I cased Superbia and tell me that's diplomatic. In fact I would think #1 (your point on reading them opposite) contradicts the fact that I'm diplomatic. The post you quoted, I'm looking for followthrough from Tictock in case you couldn't tell. 4 The "don't feel obviously town" is about as bad as it gets as you could apply that to half the players in this game right now. That's a PoE argument best saved for late game. Plus you were more interested in Stutters when you threw your vote on me. There are some flaws in your logic. Particularly #3. Try again. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 05:42 ritoky wrote: when you're town you're the lioness. you're the leader of the pack. you like to play from the front. why are you playing from the back? I was AFK first half of D1. Already explained that pre-game. Tried to settle in Sunday night (my time) and something came up at home and I was still on page 15 of 24 when that happened. Already stated that too. Today was the first real crack at the game that I've had. I've gotten wrecked by RL before as both alignments, and this game happened to start on the weekend which is generally bad for me anyways. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I'll be completely honest here - I have never heard anyone in TL scumread someone for phrasing in active versus passive voice. That's a new one. Regardless though, it's still not obvious to you that Tictock should be responding to that? It's still not obvious I'm looking for followthrough? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 05:51 ritoky wrote: no because you haven't followed through. mind you i don't think he has posted since, but if he came back and posted about other stuff and ignored you; i am not confident you would press him on ignoring you. You just answered your own question. I can't follow through because there's nothing yet to follow through on. Also not sure where you lack confidence I wouldn't do it when I haven't been able to do the same for two other scumreads. There is no evidence either way in this game at least for you to draw that conclusion. *smacks head* | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 05:47 prplhz wrote: hts didn't feel like this at all in last game when she was attacked by rso (and partially also me). she also seems sort of mean and angry instead of being calm and down to earth, kind of like she's overcompensating for being called "too diplomatic". she's also completely misunderstanding my rather simple argument: hts is scumreading me for something without scumreading or even commenting on other people who did exactly the same thing and that is bad. doesn't matter if she is scumreading whoever for whatever, what she is saying is "player X, Y, Z did action A but only player Y is scum for it". doesn't matter if she is scumreading X and Z for whatever other things. why only blame me for not "getting the joke" when several other people didn't get it either? (and i realize it was a jokish post now, or at least it could be and i'm in no position to evaluate whether or not it was so i'm ignoring it) *yawn* Said the same thing to ritoky - I had that tone before he called me that. Someone's selectively reading. Your second sentence is completely contradictory. You're saying my "mean and angry" tone is out of place (compared to last game since you knew I was town that game) instead of being calm and down to earth, then you use the word "overcompensating" as if I need to have a strong tone when being too diplomatic (in ritoky's words) is too scummy. So which is it prplhz? I don't mind the scumread, but the manner in which you're presenting that first argument is quite baffling. Which is it? I'm scum for being mean and angry or I'm scum for being diplomatic. Can't have it both ways. No I haven't commented on Fecalfeast yet because I haven't been able to look at him yet. I prioritised others over him. You also still ignore the fact that prior to my last post I had a weak scumread on you. And you didn't really respond to the issues regarding Celestial. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 06:02 scott31337 wrote: I just glanced at the VCA and I'm going with my suspicion that disformation may be scum. He's in a third-trying to fit in vote - and then ritoky asked about it - among the seriousness of his smileys and defensiveness. If there's a cop I would check him. You mean vote count, not VCA.... Can you quote where you think disinformation is trying to fit in? Are you scumreading his for his vote on you or for or a response to ritoky or....? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 07:04 Superbia wrote: This post feels like a load of shit: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=32#632 How can you post that much without reaching a conclusion on y0su? Like to be honest I've only skimmed the post but what the fuck. Read my second sentence. That's the conclusion. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 07:29 Superbia wrote: I'm skimming through the posts and all that she is doing is justifying her vote. Doesn't contribute to scum hunting at all. AT ALL. Have you read my filter? At all? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 07:29 disformation wrote: Well. There is zero explanation for them... I am starting to see why you dislike HtS that much. If you read my filter you'll see I have explained each of my reads. I placed that list post you quoted and then my jusitification for all those reads in separate posts. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 07:35 Superbia wrote: Somewhat. Where are you at right now? You think I'm scum and I feel that's most of what you've been saying today. I know this is absolute bullshit. I feel you are treading in the wake of -celestial-, who is town but wrong. Then refute my case point by point. Where is the distinction between celestial who is town but wrong and myself? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 07:19 prplhz wrote: you guys need to push this hts thing btw. don't know when's the last time i saw a scum be up for lynch and then oppose the alternative wagon (well okay i sort of did that when it was me or LS in titanic but that was probably a bad move lol). I never opposed Scott's lynch. I have NO idea where you are coming up with that. You're honestly looking worse with each post there. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 07:37 Superbia wrote: What are your thoughts on y0su? After he answered my last case post - I was willing to leave him alone. Right now, I'd say a weak town read. I am looking for the quotes of where he answered my latest concerns. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 07:40 Superbia wrote: I'm not refuting any fucking case right now because it's a tremendous waste of time. I know I'm time. We need to lynch you and have you flip mafia. And I'm not going to flip mafia. You're looking for a mislynch here. You are saying my reads are wrong, Anyone can say anyone's reads are bullshit but you haven't clarified why. I'm getting complete scum vibes from prplhz, and I've refuted him and ritoky (who I'm less sure of being scum), last I had a weak townread on him. I don't have a problem with people scumreading me, I have a problem though with how people do it. I could see ritoky's thought processes more clearly and I was able to iron out, not with prplhz. And much less with you right now. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Superbia, this is about as simple as it gets. If someone looks scummy, you question it. If your concerns resolve, you move on. If not, you push for their lynch. Why are you making something more complicated than it needs to be? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
(Or prplhz for that matter.) | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 07:45 Superbia wrote: I have ritoky as HARD town. I know I'm town myself. So I know your reads are not making any sense. This paired with your completely passive day convinces me that you're mafia. Like I am vehemently believing that scott is either flipping town here or mafia has been bussing hard. I explained to ritoky the same thing I explained to you - first off, this is D1. There is definitely a world in which D1, no one has flipped, and two townies have different perspectives where they reach different conclusions on people. I already beat ritoky to death why I'm not townreading him as hard. He is definitely NOT a lynch, let alone a number one lynch. The push on me is at best OMGUS, but you are really appearing desperate to get a lynch off, and I already explained the passive game, assuming you mean my activity. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 07:49 ritoky wrote: ticktock posted, ignored hts, hts did not push him for ignoring her. looks like i was right to be confident that she wouldn't follow through. When did he post? The last hour when I was in the other game as co-host? Definitely not before that unless I missed that. I literally get back here and Superbia is going all out on the lynch. prplhz looks even worse as he's just posting from the backseat. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 07:51 Fecalfeast wrote: She looks like she's trying really hard to make big posts. I haven't read the thread since about 10am-ish You've played Titanic with me. I think you should know by now that I tend to case a lot. Not the first time you have seen big posts from me. Try harder next time. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 07:54 Superbia wrote: HtS why are you voting scott? What did his last post do to your read? What do you think of disformation waffling? Make it short pls. :D My reasons for voting scott were from what I presented before - he didn't even have a read on you before voting him when he first voted me. His claiming VT holds nothing to me. It's NAI - I've seen people do that as both alignments. I questioned him on why he thought disinformation was a better lynch. Waffling and committing to a read though does not look good at all, it is a scumlike behaviour. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 07:57 ritoky wrote: she was all passive, den me and prp called her scum. now she all turnt up. was a pretty drastic tonal shift. No I wasn't passive at all. Not in how I cased Superbia. You basically took one post and blew it up. Try again ritoky. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
This post in of itself looks towny. Not sure if he accidentally or intentionally missed my post. Will state again.... | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 08:13 sicklucker wrote: Like i dont think a town needs to justify any vote when its 7-3 because your vote literraly is worthless but you sure tried. I think its scummy This is true. Also I didn't see your response to me regarding Superbia. You made some comments on him and Shining, did you have anything else to add regarding his game play since? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 07:06 Superbia wrote: Like I only know HtS' opinion on me and scott. I know for sure I'm town so I know that her read is garbage. I don't know about scott at the moment, but I generally hate most of the people voting on him. So he hates most of the people on Scott but he singles me out for not having the same reads as him. I gather post-lynch he's not impressed with SL/FF, but unless I missed it, no idea where he stands on Stutters. *yawn* Anyone can sheep a town read and come up with BS reasons to find a second wagon which is what he tried to do with me at EoD. In Titanic, both Damdred and Palmar sheeped my case on Fecalfeast, so that behaviour at scum is definitely possible. ritoky's method of doing it is a bit more credible despite the faulty logic because he actually did interact with me though I'm not sure where he is with stutters since he appeared to have strong feelings on him for his garbage reasoning. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 08:21 sicklucker wrote: If I had to give a strong super read I would say hes town for some comment like "we need a close race to get information" or something like that because I usualy say that when im town too because its probably true I see where you're coming from with this and it would make sense in a world where Superbia is town. Right now with the rest of his behaviour at EoD, though, I'm not seeing it. As for me, I had my vote on where I felt it was mafia and I felt no need to change, and Superbia was only looking bad to one other person. I also had Celestial as town, so between that and my additional observation on Scott (not townreading Superbia prior to sheeping him on me early game) I honestly felt my vote was in a good place. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 08:33 -Celestial- wrote: prplhz is looking really bad in my books. I wasn't planning to filter dive right now but I brought up his filter to just check over the post he made when he voted scott and he has literally a one-page filter. Most of which is just junk and vague sentiments. His vote on HtS feels incredibly throwaway, kinda OMGUS over her read on him. 1000%. He looks a lot worse now at EoD. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 08:14 Half the Sky wrote: This is true. Also I didn't see your response to me regarding Superbia. You made some comments on him and Shining, did you have anything else to add regarding his game play since? On May 05 2015 04:51 Half the Sky wrote: I am really curious to see what Tictock has to say on Superbia particularly on the exchange between him and Celestial if he has any input or even between that and Shining. Both disinformation and myself are also headscratching on him at the moment, and one of my issues with Superbia is that particular exchange. I realise he's partying hard (happy birthday btw!) but look forward to a response when he returns. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 10:34 Stutters695 wrote: What do you make of Sup calling me out for "ninja" voting but not saying anything after about it? I saw you saying you were unsure on where he felt I was, but I'm torn on how to take that. Part of me wants to say that's a really town reaction because he felt he caught scum. But he never acknowledged he was wrong and it implies he wasn't reading the thread that well while he was here. I don't know. Looks like I missed Superbia's second post when I said he was unsure on how he felt. So much was flying around at EoD, I had missed it. On May 05 2015 07:55 Superbia wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24197937 That fucking ninja. On May 05 2015 07:56 Superbia wrote: Not engaging in conversation until pinged out. Big town plays. The second post reads as sarcastic to me given his first sentence. So I think he's calling you scum for your ninja vote. However, I checked your filter, and you listed at least three times as to why you didn't like Scott prior to the vote, so him calling it a ninja vote is just him looking at the timestamps and throwing it out there. You voted in thread about 90m prior and in voting thread approx 75m prior. Although he calls it a ninja vote at 5m prior. He goes back to read the stuff on me and clearly he was looking at other things too when he called your ninja vote (and linked it) yet he didn't catch when you voted and still called it ninja. You haven't changed your reads on Scott from what I can tell. It's definitely selective reading and mafia can cherry pick the posts to fit their arguments. That's the (scum) impression I get from him. Also he's saying you're not engaging in conversation. That statement doesn't really do anything productive as you have already stated your reasons for voting Scott. (Nor am I seeing his reasons for contesting that.) Superbia gets back in thread and we have these series of quotes from him. On May 05 2015 06:57 Superbia wrote: k I'm here. On May 05 2015 07:02 Superbia wrote: Reading. On May 05 2015 07:04 Superbia wrote: Like at this point I'd lynch HtS or maybe disformation. It's the same problem I have with Superbia voting me, he's not really reading the thread (the timestamps clearly indicate that), or reading selectively. IIRC he afks the thread saying I need to do more, and he basically comes back to that. His push on me is at best OMGUS. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I just went through FF's filter and nothing feels off, the logic for his reads are there. Unable to reference a certain game in progress, but between that and some familiarity with his town games, I am fairly confident he's town. Also the post where you (FF) said I was combative, I got the impression from your "trying too hard" with just a few minutes left (and not having been able to read your filter before that, so I had no idea where you stood on me), you were setting yourself up to switch votes. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
That was around the time ritoky/prplhz started throwing things around, and when I responded, I didn't see any followup from it considering he found my behaviour or reaction strange, there was zero interaction with me through EoD from him as they were pushing on, at the very least there should have been some conclusion from him. prplhz looks really bad in general, but just from that interaction alone, if I had to ignore the rest of Shining's gameplay, he actually looks the worst in the exchange. Since he'd just stopped posting altogether I didn't realise it until I re-read the quote that ritoky scumread me for and it was the response to Shining, if ritoky has a conclusion from that, Shining absolutely should. Otherwise, what was the point of that question? I respond to Shining 7m after he asks that and there's nothing else from him, there's a potential he lurks as ritoky actively leads the push. Generally speaking it's a scum tell to sit in the background like that. That last post (that disinformation quoted) was his last post and it was 3h before EoD. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
*bangs head against wall* | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
1 Your conclusions if any to my response to your question. 2 Your thoughts on the people that interpreted my response. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 04 2015 16:16 Tictock wrote: prplhz is looking pretty scum to me right now too. He made one post with actual content and even that was mostly an excuse as to why he isn't posting. Scott put himself in a position where he looked pretty bad, but lately he's bee making an effort and seems fairly calm given the suspicions around him. That feels town to me, he's not ignoring what ppl say about him but he's not focused on defending himself either. prp and HtS really need to contribute, SL and Stutters are also barely active & have contributed nothing solid thus far. On May 04 2015 19:40 Tictock wrote: I'm having a hard time deciding who I want to vote for as well. Scott is still the most appealing case, even though I have some doubts. I'm tempted to make a case against prp but there just isn't enough to go on. I just don't like his dismissive post regarding how he "spams town" normally and says he isn't around. If he is legit too busy to play a town would likely replace, this seems more like a scum excuse to skate by day 1. Unfortunately that's all I have as prp, as well as several other ppl, just aren't active enough to make real reads on. He's saying that Scott looks town - and by comparison townier than prplhz - then 2h later in his filter he's saying Scott is the most appealling case over prplhz over not as much to go off on. To me there is a jump in reasoning that looks scumlike and checking the thread itself (page 29) there is no further interaction from Scott (or prplhz) for him to then turn around and say "Scott is the most appealling case" (even with doubts) over prplhz, at least in his reasoning, when his reasoning on prplhz was consistently scum. He cites lack of activity on prplhz, and obv the lack of activity certainly doesn't make . It just appears like that one sentence makes him look like he wants to blend in. And it just gets better. I see his response to ritoky's questioning on the same post. On May 05 2015 06:48 Tictock wrote: My issue here was that the vote on scott felt too easy. It wouldn't add pressure as scott had already seemed to accept he is probably going to be the D1 lynch and would only put me into the "lynch scott" bandwagon. So while that was my obvious vote at the time I did not see that vote giving town any new info. I was pretty tempted, and probably should have just gone with it, to vote for prp to try and pressure him into posting. So this (voting) was his justification for being hesistant to vote Scott in his original post? I went back and checked the timing of his thoughts (that ritoky quote) and the votecount at that time. The vote was still 2-1 against Scott, and at that time he was nowhere close to being the absolute wagon. On May 04 2015 14:01 cakepie wrote: VOTE COUNT: scott31337 (2) : -Celestial-, sicklucker sicklucker (1) : -Celestial- (0) : Half the Sky (0) : Not voting (10) : disformation, FecalFeast, Half the Sky, prplhz, ritoky, scott31337, Stutters695, The Shining, Tictock, y0su The cycle will end at Monday, May 04 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00), 18 hours from this post. remain as you are reading this. Remember, voting is mandatory! Place your votes in the voting thread. Currently, scott31337 is set to be lynched! If you see any vote out of place, holler at the hosting team so that we can correct it. (Tictock's hesitancy is 19:40 per the timestamps, see above) On May 04 2015 21:45 disformation wrote: ##Vote scott31337 Tictock's explanation to ritoky on the vote being too easy was completely inconsistent with why he felt hesitant to vote Scott because the votes certainly didn't reflect that at the time he was having doubts on Scott. It looks pretty scumlike for him. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
More OMGUS from prplhz. Shocking. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
1 Jump in logic on Scott/inconsistency/hesitancy - was previously pointed out by ritoky 2 Voting excuse was inconsistent with his explanation for his hesistancy at the time he couldn't decide to vote Scott. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 02:02 ritoky wrote: wasn't your aggression on me and prp pretty omgus too? pot -> kettle? I'm assuming here you are talking about my response/rebuttal of why you think I'm scum. There's nothing OMGUS about refuting any argument, and I even said before your logic may be flawed. That's a simple defence - at no point I've even solidly scumread you to begin with, let alone in retaliation. As for prplhz I was scumreading him well before he voted me, and his subsequent posts/EoD behaviour have only been worse. Even his last point on Stutters is pretty laughable - he's pretty much commenting from the backseat without questioning Superbia - checking his filter he doesn't even have a read on Superbia. The pot/kettle argument is a moot point here. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Edited. Cheers, sorry about that again. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 02:17 ritoky wrote: So why aren't you pressing prp. He voted on you, did nothing to follow it up; and now in the subsequent phase is pushing toward stutters with no regard or comment to the wagon on you, why you aren't his top target, and the like. Yet you're in deep on ticktock and superbia. Or do you have the same read I have on prp? I think you missed my latest posts on prplhz. He's actually in the LIWF category for me. I'm in the deep on other people because there is more than one scum. On May 05 2015 07:53 Half the Sky wrote: When did he post? The last hour when I was in the other game as co-host? Definitely not before that unless I missed that. I literally get back here and Superbia is going all out on the lynch. prplhz looks even worse as he's just posting from the backseat. Also I differentiated between how you and prplhz were scumreading me. You actually interacted with me and we discussed the logic. prplhz also didn't do that. I know I mentioned that somewhere briefly. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 02:25 Stutters695 wrote: I'm kinda souring on Rit. Is he always this all over the place? That question to HtS about prp is really wtf. I have yet to play a game with ritoky as town tbh. I've played 2-3 games with him where he was scum, and one where he was third party serial killer. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 02:17 ritoky wrote: So why aren't you pressing prp. He voted on you, did nothing to follow it up; and now in the subsequent phase is pushing toward stutters with no regard or comment to the wagon on you, why you aren't his top target, and the like. Yet you're in deep on ticktock and superbia. Or do you have the same read I have on prp? Also on that same vein, Superbia pinged out Stutters, and also has had zero discussion on me post-lynch. He pushed my lynch pretty hard near EoD, even more so than prplhz. Somehow my looking into Superbia (for whatever reason) remains problematic? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I also mentioned it before and I'll mention it again - the argument that "having the same reads as yourself" makes someone town (or not having them makes a person mafia) is really faulty at best, especially early (and we're still early as it's only N1) in the game as D1 reads on aggregate aren't great. That argument becomes stronger as people flip and the game progresses, but it's a really weak argument. If someone wanted to say "X is scum because he doesn't have the same reads as me" on say, D5, it would carry a lot more weight also because it's harder to fabricate something over 5 cycles, better read progression in theory, etc. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 02:37 Stutters695 wrote: Notice any differences this game? As anti-town he's scumread me I think nearly every time. I know in Carol there was one instance (he was scum vigilante) he tried to immediately scum me without asking me questions for my lack of town skepticism. I remember that pretty well. He's at least trying to confirm motive here. As serial killer, the approach may be different because SK is anti-swing. I can't remember how much exact questioning he did in that game of me, but he was quick to judgement in that game. Particularly I recall early on he didn't like my sheeping or something in Titanic and then when I kept refuting his arguments, his reads on me didn't change. I'd say he's trying to confirm himself more this game before pushing a lynch, which appears townie, but since I've not had a town game with him yet, I'm just trying to avoid meta in evaluating him for the time being. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 03:01 y0su wrote: I also need to look into the TT discussion cause he had the same uneasiness about the Scott wagon being "too easy" (could just be both of us being new, but - and i think i stated it earlier - it gave me a T read on him). My issue with this is not that he made this argument but when. He used it to justify how he felt when he was hesitant on voting Scott (when ritoky queried him on it), when the votes were nowhere near decided. Tictock, can you explain why a 2-1 votecount made you hesistant to vote? Because that's what the votes were, when you responded to ritoky about the vote being too easy in you being hesitant. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 03:51 Superbia wrote: Also Stutters, HtS, what do you think of your d1 performance? Seriously? That's a loaded question, regardless of whom you are asking. What in the bloody hell are you trying to achieve asking this? And VCA I can try, but same problem - VCA doesn't do much in the way of (useful) information right now when no scum have flipped. I know I'm town, and both main wagons were town with Scott having flipped. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Isolated votes (e.g. Tictock) are always bad and I've already pointed out problems with him independent of his last minute vote. Waiting for a response on that plus the additional question I had from D1. Offhand I know sicklucker looks really bad because he placed a vote on Scott saying "first impressions are the best" or something and then I told him others also had shite entrances - why was he singling out Scott for his bad entrance. I don't recall him answering that question. Stutters's D1 performance was sparse, as it always is - D1 is a meta read on my end, but the town read comes from post-lynch activity. He's more actively trying to figure things out. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
So you think he's wasting his vote but yet you could buy a newbie play argument. Where does that put you now? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
How does that post make Celestial confirmed town? What phrases are you keying in here? IMO "fear" reads are NAI. Celestial fears me based on a scumteam performance we had together. You townread him. In Student 7, mafia godfather Tubesock ALSO fear-read me (I was town vanilla) on this same game's performance. People can throw fear reads as either alignment. What logic with this post are you using to arrive at your conclusion? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 04:41 sicklucker wrote: and since when do mafia nk the most likely towns they always go for da roles Seriously? Why do you think Holyflare often gets N1ed in games? How often is he blue when this happens? *facepalm* | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 04:41 sicklucker wrote: I think i looked pretty good when i put some time into it All of three posts in your entire filter, and the last of those three posts you are just rehashing what you stated. You could be doing that as either alignment. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 04:47 Superbia wrote: You're in a position where you should be able to see the merits of scum switching if you're town. Why was scum not swayed by arguments in the last moments and switched to you? Or did they? If so, who was it? I want you to draw conclusions from my aggression versus you and the fact that everyone kept their vote on Scott. Also where are you at with my alignment right now? Need to re-read EoD one more time but I know FF/SL made a mention of having scant time left and debating whether to switch or not. Tictock looks bad for reasons I stated. Shining soft pushed me on the same post that ritoky did in response to one of Shining's questions but then completely AFKed the thread without any conclusion on my response to HIS question. I already made my case that of everyone in the exchange, he actually looks the worst. prplhz as I stated earlier N1 was making a lot of backseat pushes (basically not as involved or invested as you or ritoky) on me, and then N1 start he's on Stutters and makes zero comment on me - same with you until now. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Unless I missed it, leading up to end of day 1, your read progression on me to sum up was "do more shit" - I did stuff - you call it BS without substantiating the arguement about 90 minutes prior to EoD. The read progression wasn't there. Your approach felt very sudden - it was out of nowhere you say after 2 minutes of reappearing and reading you were like "I could lynch HTS and disinformation". So the tone really didn't come across to me as genuine, more of a desperate "toys-out-the-pram" approach. I asked you to substantiate the read by the time I get back in thread (approx 30m prior EoD) and you said you didn't have time - could be evasive, could be legit. I didn't take that non-answer as indicative at that time since time was short. Now? I like how you questioned ritoky's post and I had the same sentiment. But asking us our D1 performance doesn't give anything useful and loaded questions usually are given by mafia to deflect attention from yourself. So I saw mafia agenda in that. Also some of the questions you are asking indicates you are not really reading the thread. The questions you asked ritoky (about my alignment) and Stutters were literally answered in the page or two before you asked the question. Not reading the thread usually indicates you're not invested in the game. I'll be completely honest - for those reasons I still have a scumread on you. If you are somehow town, you are/have been extremely tunnelled. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 04:24 The Shining wrote: [...] As for Scott, I agree with the points made against him. And if it were any other player, I'd be worried about no one defending him but if he is in fact scum, it would mean he rolled scum every game he's played here. I could understand the lack of defense, lack of posting, possible lack of motivation as someone who is tired of rolling scum as a newbie. As I said before, a town trait - even if you sheep a case - is to sheep town reads, and it's not clear in the post who he's sheeping or why or anything. This is an answer where he's not accountable for his actions - if you were to name a townread, there's some sort of progression. Saying I agree with everyone, or inferring that - this is quite a weak reason to throw his vote on Scott and with 3.5 hours to go (when the vote went down) he had more than enough time to read the thread and come up with a better progression. If Shining is here, I'd like to know 1 why the vote didn't go down earlier in the day if he was suspicious of him 2 what conclusions you had on me at EoD if any and what now And of course, updated reads. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 05:37 prplhz wrote: yea i don't know. i COULD buy it but i'm not necessarily buying it. maybe it's a bad idea to read too much into it. I smell more scumlike behaviour...why are you so afraid to commit after you said ticktock looks horrible? On May 06 2015 04:10 prplhz wrote: dunno i think ticktock looks horrible for throwing away his vote like that. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 04:45 Half the Sky wrote: How does that post make Celestial confirmed town? What phrases are you keying in here? IMO "fear" reads are NAI. Celestial fears me based on a scumteam performance we had together. You townread him. In Student 7, mafia godfather Tubesock ALSO fear-read me (I was town vanilla) on this same game's performance. People can throw fear reads as either alignment. What logic with this post are you using to arrive at your conclusion? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
You missed the point. What you said (and even what I said) was 100% wifom. You're not really achieving anything talking about nightkills. What are your reads? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 05:53 Fecalfeast wrote: current scummers: sl, shining, maybe super, maybe ritoky maybes based on tonereads recently. town: HtS, disambiguation, -c- Playing video games til daypost Reasoning? (For any of the reads aside from the maybes) Disinformation is a newbie. What jumps out at you as townie? You also left y0su out. Where do you stand on him? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 06:54 ritoky wrote: he is already town. as a newer player he spearheads a lynch on a townie day 1 and really believed in his read, which for a non new player is meh, but a newer player doesnt usually make that play as mafia. so he is already super town. i then say his read makes no sense to me, he stays calm, tries his best to explain the read, displays a healthy level of paranoia in his reads and seems legitimately flustered over being wrong. he then stops himself from going too far in the tank. it is a blatant stream of consciousness post all in the form of a town mindset on top of him being super town to begin with. guy is so town it hurts. Alright, fair. I also interpret "confirmed" town as a flipped town or a DT check or some mechanic that actually literally confirms that person, which is why I asked. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Anyhow... Likely Town Celestial (would be interested in how he sees people N1) Stutters695 (post D1 play, would have to see inconsistencies to move down) Leaning town ritoky (will revisit to confirm either way - questioning of myself seemed reasonably thought out but do have a fear read based on meta) y0su (move down if he falls off) Slight town to null Fecalfeast (had a good d1 IMO, but I need to understand where he's coming from with his latest reads) Null sicklucker (will move down if he's not contributing much) Review pending disinformation (nothing scum jumps out at me at the moment, but I want to revisit his filter for any possible mafia motivations) Leaning scum Shining (could move up or down, pending responses) Tictock (I know he's in the process of responding, will update if he does before I have to AFK) Scum Superbia (Inconsistencies are adding up - could move up if I can get an explanation for what I feel is a mafia agenda. EoD behaviour, what I feel is deflection/misdirection) Lynch It With Fire prplhz (EoD behaviour/post lynch behaviour and that wishy washy sequences of posts on tictock) | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 07:18 Stutters695 wrote: So you've got me as lynchable but not prpl. What in the flying fuck. Admittedly, I read this as a scumread on Shining and not of you, but either way he needs to explain that. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
1 What are your thoughts on the behaviours of people close to/at EoD? The people who were active at the time IIRC were Superbia, myself, ritoky, disformation, prplhz, Celestial, sicklucker. (So were FF/Scott, but they are both flipped, so leave them out, obv) 2 How confident are you in your current town reads? Do you potentially think any of them could be misleading? (Granted Celestial already highlighted one of them for you but the others?) Also curious to see the rest of your reads. (Sidenote: Yeh I also keep typing disinformation as well lol.) | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 19:28 -Celestial- wrote: Is this a drunken claim? If it is then that simplifies things a bit (though I dunno, game has a Godfather in it...). Although if its supposed to be a more generic statement then I agree that HtS should probably have been the cop check if there was one last night. sicklucker is experienced enough that I wouldn't see him outing or even breadcrumbing a green check on D2 after a ML. There's no motive for him to out, people are calling him for lurking (and I reiterate that again now) but he's not absolute top lynch on people's list atm. There's no pressure and it's early in the day. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 08:15 Superbia wrote: Like I believe that there was a divide between team Superbia and team Celestial yesterday, and I think both teams are town at this point in time, which kind of explains the lack of activity at EoD1. That leaves me with towns: - Superbia - Ritoky - Celestial - Half the Sky I am fine with throwing prp in there as well. My town read on y0su is pretty much gone. I am expecting huge things from The Shining, as his pre-game excuse has vanished. So let me see if I understand your rationale correctly. Stutters and prp have exactly one scumread, the former on prp and the latter on myself. You're willing to start a train on Stutters even though: 1 your opinions of myself are changing/have changed (and you use your echoing of thoughts of prplhz as the basis for townreading him) and his really hadn't 2 you expand your potential scumreads and prplhz is not, or hasn't yet If you're not "mind-melding" with him or whatever the term is called, any longer, why are you still townreading him? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Also prplhz, you said you have a tendency to scumread people who scumread you. You're doing it again, this time with Stutters. So prplhz, if you're not scum, then whom? ##vote prplhz | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 07:12 The Shining wrote: Skimmed from EoD up to now. Scott townflip really hurts but I'm not sure how we could have avoided that. Haven't had time to sit at my laptop for anything and trying to actively read 100+ posts on mobile is impossible. Looks like I'm prime d2 lynchbait so I'm going to actually take my time, reread and answer the questions and reads I was asked for. Not like I need to rush. No way scum kills me tonight when people are still scumming me. Yay me. Oh and I really think this quote reflects scum sentiment. Scum generally have the sentiment of survival and drawing things out. And if you would read the thread more closely you'd see you aren't such...yet. But I know you had your "weekend" or what have you, but it's Wednesday now, so if we don't see much more than this soon, given where a lot of people stand with their reads at the moment, it is quite conceivable that at least one of us wouldn't hesitate to start a wagon on you. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Since Superbia claimed RB (though this in of itself doesn't immediately vindicate them and I'll explain from a pure mechanical standpoint why) and FF was shot, it's safe to say we have a medic and not a veteran. Celestial's explanation reflects most closely what I think on that. I'd say more likely a DT over vig at this point, most vigilantes claim with whom they tried to shoot if they were roleblocked (and the ammo in this game is not refundable). Regarding any RB claim, scum can choose to hold their RB depending on their approach. It's not likely but it happens depending on the flow of the game. In Student 4 we had to tinker with the possibility that Breshke was scum RB. He claimed RB D2 and over time as some doubted his game, no one was questioning him, there was fear he was actually the RB (GF and mafia vanilla flipped). We get to 2/1 lylo, but after some thought we correctly concluded the other player was scum. In MM2 (a recent game that just finished) I believe Damdred claimed being roleblocked and he was scum. And people didn't look at his overall gameplay. Just some thoughts there. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Independent of prplhz, who looks the most mafia and why? You also said that tictock "could be scum" I assume based on EoD - what do you think of him now? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 22:14 disformation wrote: So was he really shot as a possible medic dodge or because he was onto superbia and ritoky? Or is that planned as a distraction to get town to lynch more town? confusing... Nightkill rationale is WIFOM. (I assume you know what WIFOM means.) It's not harmful in of itself to speculate provided it doesn't drive your gameplay. I'm feeling better about ritoky from the way he's re-evaluating people, but there's always the possibility a scum Superbia claimed when in reality there actually might be a veteran around and Fecalfeast very well could have been killed and RBed. It is mechanical speculation, but it possibly exists. As there has been history of veteran scum claiming to be RBed, I think it's important to continue evaluating his gameplay overtime. On May 06 2015 22:14 disformation wrote: Though I rethought superbia and want to start to see him more as super pushy/aggressive town... need to rethink superbia and rikoty again it seems... You didn't think he was aggressive towards me (or you for that matter) at EoD D1? What did you think of him (or ritoky) EoD? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 22:26 Half the Sky wrote: I'm feeling better about ritoky from the way he's re-evaluating people, but there's always the possibility a scum Superbia claimed when in reality there actually might be a veteran around and Fecalfeast very well could have been killed and RBed. It is mechanical speculation, but it possibly exists. EBWOP - Also with the previous point in mind, I do not know if Superbia is a high-risk high-reward player generally speaking as scum. But that's usually another factor I'd consider whether he'd be likely to make such a play early in the game. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 22:33 disformation wrote: Which is was I was pretty much annoyed by him for a fair bit. I now rethought him and think he is a very aggressive townie opposed to a very aggressive mafia. What distinction are you making here? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 22:33 disformation wrote: Which is was I was pretty much annoyed by him for a fair bit. I now rethought him and think he is a very aggressive townie opposed to a very aggressive mafia. How are you distinguishing between town aggression and mafia aggression? To use other examples, there are veterans such as JAT/Holyflare/Koshi who are known bullies as both alignments. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 22:58 disformation wrote: I think I read his motivation different now. EoD1 I read him more as trying to confuse or boss people around as in "do what I want you do to, or imma lynch you" or "come on townies start to scream at each other a bit more, so I can set up misslynches D2". Is that what scumandeering means? Now I am seeing him more as a townie who aggressively pushes/annoys people to get more reads from them. Alright. I can see where you mean. Your search for motivations makes it more likely you're town. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
So if you are reading me as town regardless, where do you stand on some of the others this game? I think the entire game at this point is asking you to contribute more. We're in D2 now. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Celestial, I looked at your latest list post. I'm going to ask you the same thing I asked Stutters. prplhz appears right now your top lynch. Let's say that prplhz disappeared or more realistically, he was replaced for whatever reason, hypothetically. 1 Who else would you lynch? 2 Have your opinions changed on tictock? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 00:44 sicklucker wrote: Oh super claimed rb? Hes very likely mafia now I will vote him. From my experience mafia will claim rb like half of the time regardless of the setup so im always suspect of the roleblock claim. But when theres a vet in the game (There is 50% of the time in this set up but mafia knows what setup were in) mafia will always roleblock whoever they nk because if you roleblock your nightkill then the vet power is neutriled. So mafia will know there is a vet because they are told the setup and will have roleblocked ff if its a veteran setup 100% of the time. Also meta wise supers one mafia win that I know of was my very first game. He claimed roleblock that game too and rode it to a mafia win. Let me ask the host if rb goes through vet power in this setup but it usually does. Told ya you should have killed me super I already theorised this earlier. I am still skeptical of his gameplay. Per the OP, the veteran is roleblockable. I already pointed that out. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 00:44 sicklucker wrote: Oh super claimed rb? Hes very likely mafia now I will vote him. From my experience mafia will claim rb like half of the time regardless of the setup so im always suspect of the roleblock claim. But when theres a vet in the game (There is 50% of the time in this set up but mafia knows what setup were in) mafia will always roleblock whoever they nk because if you roleblock your nightkill then the vet power is neutriled. So mafia will know there is a vet because they are told the setup and will have roleblocked ff if its a veteran setup 100% of the time. Also meta wise supers one mafia win that I know of was my very first game. He claimed roleblock that game too and rode it to a mafia win. Let me ask the host if rb goes through vet power in this setup but it usually does. Told ya you should have killed me super However, you have just given me one more piece of information to work with. I asked earlier if Superbia was a high-risk high-reward player. From this quote, it appears the answer is yes. Which is yet another reason not to sleep on him at all. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Evaluate Superbia on his gameplay please, aside from meta. The meta point in of itself does not make him mafia but now that you've established him as a high risk high reward player or at least the evidence is there to support that, can you find the mafia motivations in his gameplay? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/469857-campus-mafia-new-newish-players-welcome If so, I'll read his game from that. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Do you feel there is the same thing? His behaviour D2, I have already pointed something out that doesn't make sense. I want an answer to that. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 00:54 sicklucker wrote: Ya that game was cancer. I was pretty bad being my first game but I got policy lynched the last 3 days by 1 afk player up untill final 3. And he never thought. Hum why are we both in final 3 together? Well like I said before that can go both ways. We were both in Student 4 together. Breshke is RBed N1. Then we get to a 3-man lylo - Breshke, me and meatpudding with the scum RB unflipped. I spent two hours trying to figure out if Breshke was pulling a fast one, but I found no reason to believe and we lynched correctly. It was Breshke's behaviour that made me arrive at that conclusion. So I want to do the same thing here. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 00:57 sicklucker wrote: Like if the vets a new player whos realistly never gonna get nked because your town games not really respected because you never played before. Then claiming is probably the correct play here because it makes super mafia here like almost all the time. I would wait for the mod to confirm if veterans can be roleblocked tho. I have seen mods do it both ways You don't need the mod to confirm. On April 21 2015 01:02 kitaman27 wrote: Town Veteran You have a bulletproof vest that can absorb one bullet. This means you need to be shot twice in order to die: once to destroy the vest, once to kill you. If you are roleblocked, however, your bulletproof vest doesn't work that night. You win with the town. It is in the OP. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 01:01 sicklucker wrote: oh ok thank I will be voting super now and never changing. This means to mean mafia will fake rb here 50-75% of the time. Probably on the higher side because super has done this very play before in his last newbie game as mafia. 50% chance to flip scum is very good odds. 75% is amazing I have no reason to ever change this Like I said, meta alone doesn't make him mafia. There is a behaviour component you are missing. I have found his behaviour suspect this game. I'm almost out of the office but have a bit more to do here, but I'll read that game on my commute home. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 01:02 sicklucker wrote: Unless vets like celestial or a non new player they should hard claim. Your roles useless in this setup if mafia has a roleblocker anyway. No, hell no. Veteran, should it exist, should not claim. The purpose of the vet is to draw a nightkill. Scum are forced to stack their actions if they have to, don't give them more options of spreading their actions out and potentially blocking the other role. If the vet claims, you direct scum. I know you've mucked up these things as town before. If you are town, don't do it again please. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 01:10 sicklucker wrote: Like im making this mathematical decision without much care of anyones reads on him. Im that sure that its the right mechanical play here. Say your told theres a vet in the game but if you rb your nk then you have no fear of shooting a vet. Then your always gonna be missing rb. So why not claim it yourself as mafia? This is a newbie game right? Its worked for you before right? Maybe I can be talked into leaving super alive untill roles claim because then when im told theirs a vet in the game ill be 100% sure hes mafia rather then just likely. But I might be nked and its a newbie game so im not sure how much people will follow through with my read so I think werjust kill him now In Newbie LX I was godfather, Celestial was the RB and he claimed he was RBed. Holy shit, I had forgotten that. But even in that game THERE WAS A BEHAVIOUR COMPONENT. Celestial was called out for scum behaviour in that game and Rasputin's tinfoil hat theory actually saved him despite him being auto-lynch D3 that game. What part of that don't you understand? You need to take into account not just the mechanics but his behaviour. I'm asking YOU to read Superbia OUTSIDE the claim. Am I making sense now? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 01:13 sicklucker wrote: You absolutely claim here YOU CONFIRM A MAFIA LOL. Stop being such a boring prude hts make some plays. I get it if your the vet and dont claim but just push and try to get super lynch. But if the vets some new player thats never getting killed the best thing you can do is claim and give me this confirmed information so I dont mislynch super the 1/4 chance hes town here Alright, I understand you now reading this post. A scum Superbia here is quite the active scum. I want to hear what Superbia has to say though. I don't like the townread on prplhz, there's a double standard out, and the latter is a LIWF for me. It's pre-flip association but I think now with a meta establishment it's a decent shot, the hypothesis that he's scum making a play. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 08:32 Superbia wrote: This is not how you solve the game. If you're town you need to re-think right now. Let's assume prp is scum. Who is scum other than prp? What's his team? Yikes, this is another loaded question. No one has flipped yet. If prp is town, this is a very good way to mislead people. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 20:58 Half the Sky wrote: So let me see if I understand your rationale correctly. Stutters and prp have exactly one scumread, the former on prp and the latter on myself. You're willing to start a train on Stutters even though: 1 your opinions of myself are changing/have changed (and you use your echoing of thoughts of prplhz as the basis for townreading him) and his really hadn't 2 you expand your potential scumreads and prplhz is not, or hasn't yet If you're not "mind-melding" with him or whatever the term is called, any longer, why are you still townreading him? This is the double standard I have a problem with btw sicklucker. He threw me a loaded question on my D1 performance (lol?) and the one with Stutters is just as bad. The VCA one was patchy but once he elaborated on that it made some sense. But loaded questions are mafia agenda, they are unproductive and generally promote misdirection. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 09:46 Superbia wrote: If you have a red check on prp you should just claim tbh. This quote could be trying to get a potential detective to claim very early in the day. Remember student 5 or 6? DT Lightning Strike claims first thing with a red check (poor decision on his part) and the day is effectively unproductive. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 08:56 Superbia wrote: Also I'm never scum after generating that much content and almost literally engaging everyone, changing my reads constantly and consistently. Top that with an RB and you're set. I'm never entertaining that thought this game. Anyone who believes that I'm scummier than: - Tictock - disformation - y0su - The Shining - Half the Sky - prplhz - sicklucker - Stutters695 I am interested to hear your thoughts on all of the above. On May 06 2015 08:57 Superbia wrote: Oh yeah, and I also never kill FF there. Ever. First quote - talking in absolutes (specifically the word "never") is bad. If he's scum, a beginner town would be doomed for eliminating the possibility of him being scum. He's changing his reads, but the issue is why he's changing his reads. In a world where he's scum, it fits in perfectly with mafia agenda of misdirection. In a world where he's town...um...where is the motivation for town to remind us he's doing what he's doing? Second quote is 100% WIFOM. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 01:29 sicklucker wrote: at the very least it might bee spew that prp is mafia Independent of association, I don't like either. But one needs to flip before you go further on the other. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 01:36 Superbia wrote: Yeah. But you're not. You're pressuring town, and the most vocal one at that. Are you not reading the thread? My vote is on prplhz. And the chances of all scummers being lurkers are small. I have not read the scum game yet that sicklucker has referenced. Scum can be active. Rasputin in Student 8 had the largest filter - she was scum. Holyflare posts a tonne as scum. Please. I am not making assumptions solely on how long your filter is. That's general trend but a good mafia player who is a conversationalist in this game can have a lengthy filter. I didn't join TL yesterday. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 01:39 Half the Sky wrote: I am not making assumptions solely on how long your filter is. That's general trend but a good mafia player who is a conversationalist in this game can have a lengthy filter. I didn't join TL yesterday. EBWOP - That posting loads as town more than scum is a general trend but a good mafia player who is a conversationalist in this game can have a lengthy filter. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
There are town and mafia motivations for claiming RB. My contention is that his behaviour in this game there is a mafia agenda. To sum up my arguments. 1 Loaded questions - both to myself and Stutters - generally unproductive 2 Misdirection plays 3 The quote where he talks in absolutes where he's basically asking to dismiss him as a scum candidate 4 The DT claim request - DT claims this early in the day destroy the day 5 Behaviour EoD 1 was a "toys out the pram" approach to getting me lynched and his read progression was lacking with OMGUS in there 6 Post lynch he has ZERO focus on me and goes off on Stutters And finally the meta - I am not meta reading it but the above looks very bad, I don't care that he's active because activity alone does not guarantee he's pure. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
##unvote ##vote Superbia | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 02:16 ritoky wrote: i am not particularly a fan of this superbia lynch. it seems very similar to the scott lynch. same people pushing it, no1 defending superbia, a lot of tone reasoning, and no real exploration into other people. i feel like one of the few people considering alternatives. someone might be railroading this game....need to figure out whom. 1 "Same people pushing it" - no, not true, Celestial I think pushed Scott, I only added on to the case. I am pushing Superbia though and if I am wrong, I have no problem taking responsibility. I am pushing Superbia on behaviour, not mechanics. And yes ritoky what you described about them RB/kill the same person, yes, that is why I am focusing on behaviour. 2 Superbia needs to defend himself. Also mind you, there are two votes on Superbia, one on prplhz, and one on Stutters. This train isn't runaway. Context please. 3 I've quoted nearly every argument I have against him. 4 My vote was on prplhz prior to Superbia. I didn't like the former then, still don't like him now. I also don't like Shining and his D1 behaviour was bad. I'd like to pressure vote all of them, but I can't. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 02:16 ritoky wrote: someone might be railroading this game....need to figure out whom. What do you mean by railroading? Bussing? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 02:24 Stutters695 wrote: Vote is on prpl, I don't like this. Neither do I. What can you do when too many people are being quite scummy? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 02:18 Stutters695 wrote: Shit, if I were scum and knew I'd kick back and laugh my way to d3. I want you to contribute something outside of the RB point so we have something to actually judge you on. To be very fair Stutters, town sicklucker uses mechanics a lot to town's detriment. Carol (with the presents mechanics) was a major example of this. He spent 75% of the time discussing whether a town or a scum would gift one-shot ability presents to each other instead of actually scumhunting. It drove a number of us batshit. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 02:30 ritoky wrote: hts you think that 2 of the 4 people who didn't vote on a townie d1 are mafia? and that of those 4, me and disform are the most town? think about it in that light. I think I understand you. You're saying that is it possible that 2 scum voted me....but disinformation voted Scott. Wagon was 3 votes on me, you sup and prp. I'm trying to avoid associations. It is possible that scum can form counterwagon to remove attention from themselves, though Superbia did that when the wagon on Scott was high. He wasn't invested in the Scott lynch at all. So this is a point in favour of him. D2 I didn't just have a problem with one quote, I have problems with multiple things. If he can explain that, then it's one thing. prplhz on the other hand looked really bad. I don't recall him being invested in that lynch, but he was trying to push me from the backseat (unlike you and Superbia). I'm not scumreading disinformation (yet). I picked his brain a little and he's looking okay for now. On May 07 2015 02:30 ritoky wrote: also i am pretty sure a literal 0 amount of people have called superbia town this game. maybe 1. so the lynch seems a lot easier to me with multiple people essentially pre-voting. For what I recall, there are three people that scummed him relatively solidly. That's hardly a majority. Celestial did D1 but it was associative, and now he's not sure. Stutters and myself had problems with him, and I still do. The newbies - I have no idea where they stand. Shining - no clue if his reads have changed. You I thought townread him. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 02:34 Superbia wrote: I hate defending myself as town and I fucking hate explaining myself. What is my goal here as mafia? "chaos"? What utter bullshit. I am hard to follow, and it has caused me to get misslynched in the past 2 games, so get over it. I don't explain shit because I hate doing it. I want to find mafia and solve the game, not writes pages of text regarding my thought process. Blargh. 1. Loaded questions? Are you fucking serious? I asked stutters for the rest of the team simply because I wanted to know his mafia reads outside of prp. What other loaded questions were there? And how do they come from a mafia mindset. 2. I genuinely don't even know what this means. Is this an assumption of my underlying mindset? 3. I should be dismissed from being a scum candidate. FF is my favorite player to play with, even if we are differently aligned. He was obviously VT and not a role as well. Why the fuck do I ever put KP on him? And before you bring up WIFOM, I have no reason to cover my ass or to use d1 KP to get WIFOM going. It's absolutely suboptimal. I hunt for PRs with KP, or strong town. You want to paint the world in which I kill my favorite player who is OBVIOUSLY VT and to WASTE THE ROLEBLOCK. Wow, what mafia play. 4. DT claim? What are you even talking about? Is this the whole red check confirm thing I asked because someone softed it? Yeah, I want to know whether a questionable person is adamant about scum-reading (and literally only doing that) one of my townies. 5. Well at least I didn't fucking join the scott wagon like the rest of the "townies", right? I tried to salvage a disastrous d1 by going on you. Yes, I absolutely believed you were mafia at EoD1. Your two "red" reads? Both town. I did not see any real scum hunting, just someone tagging along trying to appear town. Sure, your posts were big, but mafia can make big posts. Even if you flipped town it would've gotten us way more information from the votes than the garbage we have now. 6. Because I re-evaluated you completely and this is the world I want to live in today. Like holy fucking shit. If you are town you are making this game ridiculously hard for me. Regarding #1 - the question where you asked me what I thought of my D1 performance. That was loaded because what does that tell you about my alignment? If I say it's good or bad, then what? Regarding #3 - FF can be a medic dodge or the result of a blue hunt attempt. We will never know. And in the presence of a veteran, you always RB and kill so that people CANNOT claim RB and confirm themselves town. Scum want to limit information. Killing the person you roleblock DOES EXACTLY THAT. Regarding #4, I'm talking about when you said for Stutters to claim if you had a red check on prplhz. Why would you do it so early and try and direct scum actions at night? I could understand a newbie doing this not understanding the ramifications but you are experienced to know this. You get him to out that early in the day, everyone AFK votes the red check and nothing gets done, DT dies that night. In Student 5 this exactly happened, and I don't want that mistake happening again. Regarding #6, you pinged Stutters post-lynch and you read my scum games only D2 so you can't say that you pinged Stutters BECAUSE you re-evaluated me. Because you pinged him BEFORE you read my scum games, not the other way around. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 02:41 Superbia wrote: sicklucker's mechanics are garbage. I did not say it was valid. Does it make him scum, based on meta no. Does it make you scum? No. I called his posts dangerous. Behaviour > mechanics, every time. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 02:39 Superbia wrote: Also The Shining should be the singular focus right now. I stopped pressuring him d1 to give him an opportunity to contribute to the game, and he has done absolutely nothing. Kill, kill, kill. How late are you up? Shining works night shift and he's 6h behind you. He plays this game at work. Today he's back at work. I think you tend to be up late so that's your prime opportunity to pressure him again. I might be able to catch him, because I don't like him either. Already threatened to vote him if he didn't pick up. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 02:34 Superbia wrote: Like holy fucking shit. If you are town you are making this game ridiculously hard for me. And if you're town, you'll resolve my concerns (or the concerns of any town who scumreads you). There are points I've gone about even with ritoky just now that make it less likely that you are scum. But I am putting out my thoughts in full so you see where I'm coming from. I have nothing to hide as town. I'm not voting you down for shits and giggles. I'm explaining what I don't like and why I don't. And there are others I have a problem with as well. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 02:42 Superbia wrote: We don't lynch prp because prp subscribed to my thought patterns d1, which buys him a no-lynch today. How in the seven hells do you want to lynch prp when people like the shining have not done anything after pressure was removed. You missed the point Superbia. HE'S NOT ANYMORE. prplhz is ALSO DOING JACK ALL. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
What do you two think, how does it affect your view on Superbia? Stutters, same question to you, I know you were looking at him too. I already know what I think but I know others were noting our exchange. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 04:02 -Celestial- wrote: I was being a touch hyperbolic, hence why I said "almost" and I'm staying on prplhz right now. Though I feel Superbia is far more dangerous an opponent to leave alive if he does turn out to be scum which worries me a lot. If prplhz flips red, Superbia IMO will look significantly worse. I learnt the hard way in Aperture 4 with a fear read on kitaman - fear reads don't tell jack all about the alignment unless you're doing a full meta read. One scum at a time. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 04:35 y0su wrote: Superbia d1 posting was sporadic and I can let some go with his birthday. [...] Okay, he's gone full red with his defense of prpl. I think we can have 2 wagons without defending one of them. prplhz more like rdhz. No d1 excuse... no filter.. OMGUS vote on HtS. All of that could change if we get some d2 out of him. I particularly don't like + Show Spoiler + you guys need to push this hts thing btw. don't know when's the last time i saw a scum be up for lynch and then oppose the alternative wagon (well okay i sort of did that when it was me or LS in titanic but that was probably a bad move lol). [...] So far I'm not trying to form a scum team so I'm not concerned with a red read voting another red read. Going to be on more now and looking into d2 more critically (especially the interactions of the reds and half red) y0su, sorry to break it to you but you already formed a team. You are scumreading Superbia (as scum) for defending someone you think is red. You can't explore interactions until someone has flipped. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 02:35 ritoky wrote: personally i don't think i have a read on superbia. he is just null to me and i plan to keep him there. he is town for having non-conforming reads on d1. mafia superbia picks middle of the road easy reads day 1 and blends. but then he has been so aggressively trying to pocket me that it makes me wary and put him back to null. but he also has that sick ritoky town read....so dunno. claiming the RB when you're a high lynch candidate as scum is meh maybe he did that. i have done it before, tends not to help things but he could have. Do Superbia's responses to me change your impression one way or another? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
If prplhz disappeared from the game, for whom would you vote? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Tinfoil hat theory 2 - there's a mafia in disinformation/y0su/tictock and the mafia is blending in with his newbie teammates by looking newb. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 04:49 y0su wrote: I didn't put super red because he was defending someone I read red. It was how he was how he was reading. He's defending someone who has a handful of posts just cause those few posts agree with him. Alright, this makes more sense. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 22:33 disformation wrote: My thoughts on Superbia on EoD D1? I thought him to be a bully trying to push ppl around and provoke people into making mistakes. That is why I gave him such a knee jerk reaction after waffling for a moment. Which is was I was pretty much annoyed by him for a fair bit. I now rethought him and think he is a very aggressive townie opposed to a very aggressive mafia. But not 100% sure. He is still super hard to read for me. You're also finding it hard to read Superbia I see. What do you also think of him with his responses to me? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 05:24 Superbia wrote: Just start pushing it and they'll join up HtS. And so far, only one of those fence-sitters actually gave an opinion on you post-response. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 05:26 Superbia wrote: No, I did not. I looked at 2 games (both VT) and decided that there was a big enough disparity between the games to justify not defending him today. Um Superbia....we were both in Titanic. You were vet, I was miller, prplhz was scum JOAT (more or less). That should be a decent basis for comparison, you think this game is closer to that one? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
You don't remember that game? That was Titanic 7, I Have a Cunning Plan. The Blackadder game where Sentinel had the two JKs. You and I both made it to late game. prplhz was the final scummer. You HAVE to remember. ritoky was third party SK. prplhz DID JACK ALL that game. If any game is good to meta, THAT'S THE ONE. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/477800-vii-titanic-mini-mafia-i-have-a-cunning-plan#6 prplhz filter from that game http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/477800-vii-titanic-mini-mafia-i-have-a-cunning-plan?user=prplhz | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 05:32 y0su wrote: trick question? show me one of his reads and I'll give you an answer. The question looks pretty direct tbh. I can see what he'd do with a range of answers and how they reflect upon your alignment. Since you're new to TL you may not know how to filter dive. Go to the OP with the list of names - Kita has linked the name in the player list to a filter. Or go to any post of Shining's and click on "filter" in the upper right hand corner. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 05:38 Superbia wrote: Yeah his filter here looks similar to that one. I may actually have a good read on him if he actually flips scum here. I kind of forgot he was in that game. If I recall correctly slam red-checked him d4 or something? After I led the wagon on palmar. Slam played DT extremely well. He red-checked Rasputin and prplhz and then he thought I might be SK, so he red-checked me (after all the scum were dead) to confirm I wasn't third party. And very good breadcrumbs on top of that. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 05:36 The Shining wrote: Hell of a lot to read. Not used to a game that has multiple large post posters. Looking at you, Cel/HtS. Yeh I prefer the case-based approach over conversational, but meh I can do either approach. You're lucky Trfel isn't in this game then. Looking forward to the rest of your reads. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 05:39 y0su wrote: TS doesn't have any reads this game. I've posted that he's leaning scum but I'm still waiting for him to show up d2. since my was a while ago I guess I'll should update that he's slipped into prpl territory. Shining is posting as you are saying this with his reads....if you're scumreading him, why aren't you interacting with him? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 05:58 The Shining wrote: Err...you, Trfel, Cel. Whatevs. Ritoky still town btw. Me lynching prpl would be policy. I need to really read yosu, TT, Stutters. Because by poe, I have Cel, HtS, Ritoky, Super town. I think there's an active scum in there. The other 2 are deff between Yosu, TT, Stutters, Dis. And the fact I almost forgot Dis makes him prime suspect. If I had to go tinfoil hat theory and come up with one reason why either of Celestial or ritoky were scum - Celestial doesn't seem to be actually pushing anyone save prplhz, but he doesn't strike me as an overly aggressive type, certainly wasn't as mafia. I know I primed him on who else he found suspicious, he said y0su. That MIGHT be the only thing jumping at me if I had to go tinfoil on him. ritoky as I've said many times before is a very good scum player. His strategy as mafia is making sure he's only the second worst in the bunch. I was scared because of what I felt were jumps in logic D1 when he said something about my overly diplomatic tone and the tonal shift. The thing that jumps out at me on ritoky is that he scumread me D1 on a tonal shift or a tonal argument but then criticised the Superbia train based on the fact that the bases for the scumreads were tonal arguments. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 06:05 Half the Sky wrote: If I had to go tinfoil hat theory and come up with one reason why either of Celestial or ritoky were scum - Celestial doesn't seem to be actually pushing anyone save prplhz, but he doesn't strike me as an overly aggressive type, certainly wasn't as mafia. I know I primed him on who else he found suspicious, he said y0su. That MIGHT be the only thing jumping at me if I had to go tinfoil on him. ritoky as I've said many times before is a very good scum player. His strategy as mafia is making sure he's only the second worst in the bunch. I was scared because of what I felt were jumps in logic D1 when he said something about my overly diplomatic tone and the tonal shift. The thing that jumps out at me on ritoky is that he scumread me D1 on a tonal shift or a tonal argument but then criticised the Superbia train based on the fact that the bases for the scumreads were tonal arguments. EBWOP - meant to bold this as well. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
(No, DT should not claim. I'm just ranting.) | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 05:46 disformation wrote: Well. First impression... to quote the late FF "He is an angry face". He seems angry and dismissive of most of your points, which I don't like. At all. But the points he makes in the beginning in regard to his playstyle probably explain why I can't read this guy at all and am not very fond of him. So his tone screams scum at me. But I guess it can be a really good playstyle for finding mafia. He is super scary. At least he dropped defending prplhz now... Currently thinking a bit in the lines of: As in: He is suspicious at hell. But I don't really want to lynch him right now. I still dislike The Shining and prplhz more and have other ppl coasting around at the boarders of null. You're scumreading Superbia based on tone and the "fucking favour" quote. But you are saying his playstyle is good for finding mafia. How do you think he's using that playstyle? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 06:15 Half the Sky wrote: Let me pull those quotes in question so to make sure I'm not taking anything out of context. I want to be absolutely sure here. EBWOP - re ritoky | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 05 2015 04:54 ritoky wrote: wtf, this is way too diplomatic sounding. has damdred taken over your account and taught you the diplomacy voice? On May 05 2015 05:01 ritoky wrote: reasons being: you're noticing the same things i am but reading them opposite, you have an overly diplomatic tone that also feels forced, you're interested in a lot of things but not pushing for them, you don't feel obviously town, and your early reads were primarily summary reads that others had already made. On May 05 2015 05:45 ritoky wrote: and there's such a tonal shift between this: and this: in terms of my 3rd point. you're actually pushing me on the points i made above, which is cool and i can get behind that. yet here you're curious and in passive voice and not actively seeking responses or answers, which i can't get behind and sounds mafia being diplomatic style. Criticism of Superbia train On May 07 2015 02:16 ritoky wrote: i am not particularly a fan of this superbia lynch. it seems very similar to the scott lynch. same people pushing it, no1 defending superbia, a lot of tone reasoning, and no real exploration into other people. i feel like one of the few people considering alternatives. someone might be railroading this game....need to figure out whom. I'm pretty sure I'm comparing apples to apples here. ritoky, given this comparison, when are you feeling it appropriate to use tone reasoning to scumread people? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
You even held yourself accountable to that. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Unvoted Superbia and voted prplhz. I'm still very confident prplhz is scum. I realise some will say it's a policy vote because of his inactivity but the focus shouldn't be his inactivity it's the way he HAS played. To recap the scum points from the play he has. 1 Sheeped the case on me by ritoky/Superbia without having reads on them or me. 2 Scumreads on Stutters and myself were at best OMGUS 3 There is no follow through on any of his reads whatsoever. This includes his read for tictock. 4 Wishy-washy reads on tictock when questioned by ritoky D1. 5 A middle of the road read on me as well at EoD 1 - when I questioned him on why he was scumreading me, he said I was angry and emotional instead of being calm and then turned around and said I was overcompensating for being too diplomatic. Meta read on me was extremely fabricated (quoted below): On May 05 2015 04:54 prplhz wrote: okay wtf deadline is tonight i don't know about scot31337. i got a good feeling about him pointing out that the shining was joking when other people couldn't see it. i also don't feel like lynching into some new guy for hardly any reason, did that way too much in last student mini. actually i'd much rather lynch hts. hts pointing out last game that it was obvious we were going in the wrong direction when we lynched a new guy for the third day in a row but now she doesn't mind continuing for a fourth day in a row? i don't know the cases on scot31337 don't speak to me at all and one of them is by celestial that i also have a bad feeling about (that people don't share for some reason). (Even with this read, if he didn't like celestial, earlier in his filter, he didn't push celestial at all for being "super tryhard.") | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 14:43 Tictock wrote: Anyone else around? I keep feeling like I'm all alone in here when I actually have time to be part of a discussion. Sidenote - I think timezones have a lot to do with this. The two dead players are NA and most of the remaining players are EU. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
It's just semantics, that point, that is. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
1 I asked Stutters to name two scumreads if prplhz replaces out. He is pushing prplhz, his action which is is 100% town. However, though he hasn't named, he is exploring other scumreads. He doesn't appear to like sicklucker and doesn't seem to like y0su and ritoky from what I read of his filter. 2 sicklucker named Stutters and y0su as secondary scumreads, and y0su for making the "worst post of all time" - wish he'd elaborate on this. Or Stutters, and why. Only issue here is that he's not pushing either of these two, or even Superbia for that matter even though I contested there were town and scum motivations to claim RB. I still haven't gotten to read Superbia's filter from Campus Mafia admittedly but Superbia contends SL took his play out of context. prplhz should absolutely be the lynch today. However, sicklucker definitely needs some pressuring, and I almost want to say, possibly as a second wagon. Also don't like this quote either, this doesn't make Stutters scummy at all as Stutters doesn't know his meta. On May 07 2015 02:10 sicklucker wrote: Im offering you a really good lynch math does not lie! This preflip blame is hella scummy | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I can see where he's scumreading sicklucker. But he's not pushing him. He's saying Superbia is doing the most to confuse town though, and I can't tell if he's parroting me - would be nice to see him elaborate on his read on Superbia. And if he feels this way why wasn't he pushing Superbia? I see he's questioning Shining before he TRs him but what confuses me is why y0su wasn't doing more to separate sicklucker and Superbia. He's separated them by association, that, but he hasn't done more (esp with Superbia) to see if Superbia could be scum or not. The argument that y0su could be parroting also comes from the fact that he tells Superbia he's saying he's asking a trick question without thinking through why the question is or isn't a trick question (I at least fleshed out with Superbia where I had issues with it). So those points make him look poor. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 23:08 Stutters695 wrote: The biggest question imo is on Super. He's hard defended someone who hasn't done anything for 5 days basically. It's really hard to say scum would hard defend scum for that long over such shitty reasons. And when he finally got off the defense it felt unnatural as fuck. Unless he was stalling for prpl to come back from outside information, why not just cut your losses? I don't get it, feels too obvious almost. Stutters - I just read Superbia's scumgame from Campus Mafia, the game that sicklucker contended it might make him mafia here. Superbia actually looks very bad based on meta. He hard defended scumreads in that game. He defended scum Sentinel hard. Rayn calls him on the hard defence D2/D3 or whatever. If prplhz flips scum, this strengthens the case that Superbia is mafia. Activity parallels are also similar. Sicklucker is actually right. Scumperbia was VERY active in his scum RB game in Campus Mafia. He's VERY active here too. Town Superbia in Guardians and Down Under 2 - nowhere near active or combative. He's very pointed statements and more combative (particularly the swearing) in this game. It's tonal but it's still another parallel on top of that. I have to look into WHEN Scumperbia claimed being RBed in that game. Here he's claiming under zero pressure. Also in that game he's pushing lynches from odd angles. Other players in that game found him a very hard read - in Campus, he does a very good job of pointing scummy things in other town players. Unfortunately this complicates things. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Town Superbia in Guardians and Down Under 2 - nowhere near active or combative. He has very pointed statements and more combative (particularly the swearing) both in Campus and in this game. It's tonal but it's still another parallel on top of that. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I tried to point him to Titanic 7, a game that we were all in. That game, scum prplhz is very much similar to here. Doing jack all. Town Superbia was passive until EoD/EoN in that game too (he was veteran). He's not anywhere near as tryhard as he is here. I asked him how he didn't remember, he says prplhz he forgot was in that game. So I know what you mean by unnatural as fuck. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
sicklucker and y0su need to be pressured secondary. The latter especially has to answer for not really having direction. Superbia/ritoky - not today. Revisit Superbia especially if prplhz flips scum. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Damn me. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 01:02 Superbia wrote: Btw, if there's a doc who's considering whether they should counter-claim, you should. If not, I'm probably confirmed town lol. 100% Would save me a headache as well. And if prp isn't NKed he's autolynch D3. Although if there is a vet here, vet should also cc since there is no setup with vet or doc. That would also help sort out N1 night actions too. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
That's more than enough time for any blue role to bleed town. The claim is premature. Will the real doc or vet please stand up? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Fucking knew it. Fucking knew it. Order of baby seals for prplhz....erm I mean redhz please. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
At least mechanically. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
This would be the third bloody newbie game in a row lacking a DT. I CALL SHENNANIGANS ON THESE NEWBIE HOSTS. >_< | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
They both need looked at? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Hence unlikely a DT. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 02:07 disformation wrote: Well, if prplhz is the goon, they still have the GF. So I would be not too sure about the DT thing... Damn. This is a very good point. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 02:24 prplhz wrote: oh god dammit sorry guys i'm not DOC i'm COP dunno how my fingers managed to mess that up anyway, i'm cop The only thing you should be posting is baby seals. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
He didn't answer the question :/ | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 04:43 sicklucker wrote: Only 3 beginner scum would rb you on a medic/veteran setup. Its still possible but very very unlikely. We lynch you because the numbers say so sicklucker - 1 Read the bloody thread - Celestial covered the possible setups. Medic and vet cannot coexist. 2 The lack of a vet means that scum split their actions, which unless they held the RB (no reason to theoretically), Superbia is confirmed town. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 04:43 Superbia wrote: SL are you dumbtelling? There is no vet. I don't even know what a dumbtell is. *shrug* | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 04:48 sicklucker wrote: Exhibit 3 you claimed rb in a veteran doctor setup (im under the impression since a veg would have shot its this setup) OMG FFS THERE IS NO MEDIC/VETERAN SETUP You must be smoking the good stuff sicklucker. Seriously. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
There's the bussing factor.....but also start looking at people that straight up ignored prplhz. By not talking about prplhz at all in their discourse, they are keeping attention off him. This is another general scumtell. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 04:49 Superbia wrote: Just let me know after doto. I think I have 2nd in sight. 3rd probably y0su or something. I'm back in here already because the bloody network is down. Fuck Steam, seriously. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 04:48 Superbia wrote: No need to defend myself, sweet. HtS, what are your thoughts on stutters? Do you feel he is justified in going after prp that hard that early? I missed this, sorry. I need to look at his quotes. On one hand, he knows prplhz's meta, or thinks he does. In NSM7 town Stutters was tunnelled on prplhz and he did a full out meta read on him. Filter is not indicative for Stutters, because he is a low postcount player as either alignment. Ironically if I had to call Stutters scum for one thing - it's not pushing his other scumreads and a couple of us asked him what his other scumreads were. I had to filter dive to even speculate and he has yet to answer the question. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 04:58 sicklucker wrote: Celesial might be Why? What actions of his reflect a scumlike behaviour? I realise no one is scumreading him but that in of itself isn't a problem. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 04:56 Half the Sky wrote: I missed this, sorry. I need to look at his quotes. On one hand, he knows prplhz's meta, or thinks he does. In NSM7 town Stutters was tunnelled on prplhz and he did a full out meta read on him. Filter is not indicative for Stutters, because he is a low postcount player as either alignment. Ironically if I had to call Stutters scum for one thing - it's not pushing his other scumreads and a couple of us asked him what his other scumreads were. I had to filter dive to even speculate and he has yet to answer the question. I need to look at the timestamps a little more closely and see when he first started going off. There was a huge gap in prp's entrance post and then the next few posts after that. Off the entrance it could reflect TMI. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 04:59 sicklucker wrote: Hts can i plays dota with you I just started a game now. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 04:59 sicklucker wrote: Hts can i plays dota with you Add me if you're on the Steam TL group. I'm in game right now. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
EU West is trash lately though. Crashed twice tonight. GG Valve. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
y0su's first read on prplhz was only late yesterday. Same for sicklucker. Shining started scumming him end of day 1. Tictock on the other hand was also scumming prplhz pretty early. Quotes to come. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 04 2015 16:16 Tictock wrote: prplhz is looking pretty scum to me right now too. He made one post with actual content and even that was mostly an excuse as to why he isn't posting. On May 04 2015 19:40 Tictock wrote: I'm tempted to make a case against prp but there just isn't enough to go on. I just don't like his dismissive post regarding how he "spams town" normally and says he isn't around. If he is legit too busy to play a town would likely replace, this seems more like a scum excuse to skate by day 1. Unfortunately that's all I have as prp, as well as several other ppl, just aren't active enough to make real reads on. First scumread was at page 29, or 32 hours into Day 1. Ehhhhh, at that time all prplhz had was his entrance which was shit and he had nothing but he was scumming prplhz for doing nothing. Which is a policy vote, which I can see a newbie doing. The tone doesn't seem to reek of TMI though. Can I get a second opinion on this? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Stutters' first mention of prplhz is 18h into the game. Going through the filter again... | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 04:49 Superbia wrote: Intentionally pretending you don't know what's going on to appear townie. Ergh, he does this as both alignments :/ | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 04:51 Half the Sky wrote: Also I want to add one more thought. There's the bussing factor.....but also start looking at people that straight up ignored prplhz. By not talking about prplhz at all in their discourse, they are keeping attention off him. This is another general scumtell. update on this - looking through everyone, not one person here in the game has ignored him. Back to the bussing factor/Stutters. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 05:05 Superbia wrote: Like prp did not even bother defending himself, which means he's fine with trading for the doc. Hence, they likely have someone on the prp wagon who's going to look good. Here is what stutters has done: - Weak-ass push on scott (confirmed town). - Getting caught lurking at EoD (incredibly scummy). - TMI push on prp. - Set up post-flip lynches on confirmed town. Kill it with fire. I agree with 1 and 3, 3 is tonal, but the point still stands, 2 I can see from a town perspective, he won't post just to post being a very low volume poster as either alignment. He didn't like the push on me, but if he wasn't scumreading me as either alignment, there's no reason for him to post or to switch to me. Looking into #4... | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 08:30 Stutters695 wrote: Lynch prpl, then Super. Easy skins easy life. On May 06 2015 08:50 Stutters695 wrote: I'll worry about his teammates once I confirm he's scum. Instead of wasting your time on me (spoiler alert, I'm not getting lynched. I'm here now and I've just gotten started) give me actual reasons why I shouldn't lynch prpl and we can find someone else. Until then, while you're hard defending my strongest scum read, I'm not going to stress too much about your thoughts. Pretty evasive, hence my asking what he'd do if prplhz was replaced. On May 06 2015 09:36 Stutters695 wrote: Yeah, if you want any detail it'll take a little. Short answers: TT: could be scum or just inexperienced. Currently not someone I'd lynch today Disinfo: would strongly consider lynching if prpl is scum. Without rereading, he doesn't stand out much except something I noted earlier between him and prpl. Yosu: basically forgot he was playing, have to read more Shining: ditto SL: shit load of associations, way too early for them. Still would rather prpl but once I really get into reading up on everyone, I could easily see him. Next sequence of quotes makes it more likely that ritoky is town and Stutters is scum - On May 07 2015 03:43 Stutters695 wrote: Because that gave him 48 hours to post and he hadn't done dick. Because he afk'd in his previous game as town for a day, he deserved the benefit of the doubt in case the weekend was bad but it's Wednesday now and he's still bad. But he's soft pushed Sueprbia even. Looked at his filter closely, soft-pushed prplhz D1 and then cranked it up. Eeesssssshhhhhhhhhhh. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 07:19 prplhz wrote: when is deadline? 36m. At least have some fun and amuse us with some baby seals | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 05:21 Stutters695 wrote: TBF I've been pretty tunneled on getting him lynched. If I had to choose immediately (like minutes to the lynch) I'd sheep on you. If I had time to read I'd probably settle between disf, shining, tt and y0su. I'll probably read up on them tonight anyway to get my thoughts out there. Essh....he did answer my question to other scumreads. But it's still damned evasive. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 07:39 disformation wrote: back. But he didn't follow up on that, right? No. Because I didn't see any such response definitively until I saw this. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 07:40 disformation wrote: EBWOP: If I recall right like my only interaction with stutters was me asking him to do stuff, which he totally ignored. Looking at his filter, his latest scumread aside from prplhz is Superbia. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 07:58 -Celestial- wrote: To be honest this is almost what I did my last game when I was completely drained from being interrogated. Was on the verge of just flipping the table over and going "screw it, I'm done". So I can definitely see it happening. Scummers don't let scummers quit <3 | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 07:55 -Celestial- wrote: I tried to get on CSGO a couple hours ago. Servers buggered to hell. sicklucker and I played a round of dota on US East. That server is much better right now. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
FUCK YES WE GOT THE ROLEBLOCKER One down and two to go! | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 08:03 Superbia wrote: Good. I'm the vigi and I'm going to shoot. I had a feeling you were vig but did not want to out you. But per the OP if you were RBed, your bullets are not refundable. You cannot shoot Stutters if you shot yesterday. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
The bullet is refundable. I stand corrected! | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 08:03 Superbia wrote: Fucking n1 roleblock. I wondered if I would have been vigishot had you not been RBed. Perhaps this is a blessing in disguise. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Yeh, yeh, I caught it. Kitaman always nerfs his vigis. That's why I checked the OP again hahah. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I want to pin y0su as the newbie scum here but I think I'm going to fully filter dive before I'm absolutely sure. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
His latest two scumreads aside from Superbia were Stutters and y0su. Just an FYI. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 08:01 disformation wrote: Yeah, I can see that. Getting pushed by HtS into rethinking superbia three times a day, was exhausting too. xD HtS is one scary lady. This is why I'm in these newbie games....I'm honestly one of the worst town players in TL :/ | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 08:13 -Celestial- wrote: HtS what are the drinking rules town side? That's a damn good question actually. Right now I'm drinking a Spanish monastrell dry rose. I'm a bit of a wine fanatic, though being a distance runner, I can't really drink much. I'd say two glasses for a correct lynch. If Superbia shoots correctly tonight, I'll drink another glass. Finish the bottle if scum concede. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 08:18 ritoky wrote: basically the likelihood that a 2nd mafia is outside of the day 1 lynch vote is very low, which would mean me, TT, and superbia are likely all town. the point i was making is you scum read 2 of the 4 and town read 2 of the 4; it is more likely 3 are town and 1 is mafia. from a numbers pov. Tictock is an isolated vote, obviously we know he's most likely not scum here. But in other games, stats aside how are you so sure that isolated votes AREN'T mafia? I mean I hated the way you used it in Titanic, everyone knows VCA can be manipulated for an anti-town agenda and you were SK. Just saying. I'm talking in general btw, not necessarily this game, this game I'm sure you're town. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 08:22 The Shining wrote: At this point, they're confirmed. Stutters likely flips scum and going forward, lynch out of y0su, TT, Rit. Why tictock and ritoky might be scum? Or is that a PoE result? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 08:30 The Shining wrote: Poe provided Stutters flips scum. That's why I said I'd go more into it eon. Also I wasn't suspecting SL? I'm pretty sure I've had him as bad/unproductive SL thru meta because that's what I have him now. On May 08 2015 08:03 The Shining wrote: Oh sick we got the RB. That's more than I hoped for, kind of shocked scum would let that happen. Yeah, Stutters looks pretty bad off of this. SL is also an outlier vote, that looks horribad post flip. Eh? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 08 2015 11:09 The Shining wrote: Yeah I was excusing the vote, not scumming him for it, and he comes back and tells me it's not alignment indicative. Felt like a defensive post, and unnecessary. And I'd lynch him solely off of doing that more than once, while trying to direct blues without reading. I can't even begin to fathom where that town motivation would come from. Shining he has done this as both alignments. If sicklucker is scum, it's not for this. What I'm more interested in, is how he knew he wanted to lynch Stutters and y0su earlier. I asked him earlier who other than Superbia he wanted to lynch - he replied Stutters and y0su without any reasoning. SL, what do you think on y0su now? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Let's say that Superbia misfires on Stutters and that Stutters is town. Who are your two scummers now? Last I can tell from your filter, you formed a town read on Shining from your conversation with him. So where do you stand now on everyone else? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 09 2015 03:17 Stutters695 wrote: That might be changed if I get the time to actually filter read, but honestly unless prpl didn't get lynched somehow Vigs are best spent taking out unreadables/lurkers. prplhz was lynched. He flipped RB. That's why we're asking the next scum.... | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 09 2015 06:48 -Celestial- wrote: Something which was never, ever happening. I'm sorry but this is an absurd argument. No way does mafia EVER NK the second counter-claim here, especially post flip. "No rly, srsly guys believe me, scouts honour I'm the REAL Doc, he was just covering for me." In a game with no PMs so that such an action couldn't be coordinated there is zero reason for mafia to believe the second claim here. 100% - I think also the pro play comment indicates TMI. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 09 2015 05:48 y0su wrote: Why did Super get RB'd and FF NK'd? The events leading up to EoD1 have Super pushing hardest for the train to move from scott to HtS. Let's assuming our two roles are indeed Doc/Vig. Why RB Super and NK FF? I thought FF's play towards the end of the day was a bit weak, why NK him? Medic dodge?. Yes, but why? Super was coming strong after HtS (when I read it later I thought it was just an attempt to get a 2nd train - especially with how he decided he didn't want a d2 lynch of HtS.) But what if scum didn't read it that way (at least during the night?) Now, there were 3 people on the HtS wagon (one being Prpl) and one vote on Prpl (so 3 potential vigilantes to look out for). They guessed right and RB'd the biggest danger to HtS (If HtS wasn't scum, WHY RB SOMEONE GUNNING FOR HER??). Now, why not just kill Super? Again, with his EoD charge against HtS it would look kind of obvious to kill him (and there's the possibility that he had a doc visit since Ritoky + Show Spoiler + beyond pro play by dis to pick up the CC in place of Ritoky, just a shame Ritoky thanked him instead of keeping up the charade First off, sorry about your cat. That sucks. But the rest of this quote is 100% WIFOM. Night actions in general are WIFOM. There are a load of reasons someone could have had actions taken on them, and in the absence of any knowledge, you'd presume the most townie/experienced players - should they have "blue tools" in their hands would be the most dangerous. (At least that's my thought on why I think Superbia was blocked in the absence of a breadcrumb.) Superbia was quite town, could have had protection - who knows - hence the medic dodge theory. An inexperienced player as a blue role may not know as much. Also second argument, just because someone is town (in this case Superbia) does not mean he's accurate. It is very common for town players to scumread each other if they misinterpret each other. Superbia's push on any given player in of itself does not make that player scum. If you're going to shoot me, you're going to shoot me for my behaviour during the day, not speculative night actions, when as town, you'd know jack all who did what. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 09 2015 07:00 sicklucker wrote: Ritokys claim was so bad no ones ever falling for it. Makes it more likely scum Makes me wonder if his "prp are you a role or mafia" (which he used to justify the post-counterclaim) was just him pretending to be invested in the push, but then again superbia did the same thing with me thinking I was either a PR or mafia D1. And though the latter is clearly town (and would soon be confirmed pending the nightkills), it just looked horrible to me. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 09 2015 07:13 -Celestial- wrote: In fact it could even be worse than that. Under those circumstances its entirely possible town gets scared of potentially mislynching the Doc, consequently leaving both alone. Potentially leading to a mislynch on someone entirely different which would be increasingly painful at that point. *cough*the Guardians game*cough* (Except the blue role in question was the town vigilante. The CC turned out to come from mafia in that game.) | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
<3 you Superbia! | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Superbia obviously confirmed town. Most confident of Shining/Celestial too. Honestly it's down to y0su, tictock and sicklucker. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
This message is for the Mafia Godfather. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 09 2015 08:08 The Shining wrote: Do a little dance. Make a little love. Shoot scum tonight. Gj super, GG and gj Dis, gg Stutters. Only gf left. Kind of torn between ritoky, yosu, sl for last scummer. Need to do some reading. Why ritoky? Are you suggesting the post counterclaim? Now that Stutters flipped, I can explain a town motivation for that. It's a newbie game, he could try and WIFOM the night kill....maybe? I have seen some town/some scum motivations in his actions over the first cycle or two. But I really... Do you think he'd question Stutters the way he did if he were scum? Not sure if ritoky would be the type to bus his entire team like that. Based on his scum survivalist meta, probably not. I don't think he's a high risk player. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
y0su is the one that needs most pressure I'd think. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
y0su and ritoky were both in the red for him but not as much. Tictock, mind elaborating what your thoughts are now with the flips on Stutters (mafia vanilla) and disinformation (medic)? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 09 2015 08:29 The Shining wrote: If yosu flips town, there's no way I don't lynch SL, policy or not. That's a fair assessment, unless there is reason to suspect tictock. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 09 2015 08:33 The Shining wrote: Note that Stutters wasn't on that list. Oh shit, scum tend to ignore their scumbuddies in any reads together. That is another point against y0su. Alright, now I'm out. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 09 2015 08:40 The Shining wrote: My personal town goal is to lynch last scum before you're nkd. Rolling 3 scum in 3 phases would feel great. 100% | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.facepalm.de/images/facepalm.jpg) | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 09 2015 09:01 sicklucker wrote: who did you shoot suber? 1 Why aren't you reading the thread? 2 You realise you're most likely up for (policy) lynch if y0su flips town? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Could he be posting just to post? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 09 2015 01:31 Tictock wrote: Yea, -c- I realize Super isn't actually confirmed yet. My point was more so that this post implies TMI to me. SL goes from being certain that voting Super is the best lynch + Show Spoiler + On May 07 2015 01:01 sicklucker wrote: oh ok thank I will be voting super now and never changing. This means to mean mafia will fake rb here 50-75% of the time. Probably on the higher side because super has done this very play before in his last newbie game as mafia. 50% chance to flip scum is very good odds. 75% is amazing I have no reason to ever change this Nevermind, I missed this. Not sure if he's really feeling this or if he's just parroting, but to be fair I felt the newbies were doing a lot of this last cycle. Doesn't always make them scum. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
One last parting shot at the last scumbag alive: (Since Fecalfeast isn't alive to post MVs for every moment, I'll do so in his place. <3 FF RIP.) | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 09 2015 09:11 Half the Sky wrote: Superbia is confirmed town now. So....your thoughts on y0su scumreading me? EBWOP - this is directed at sicklucker - relevant quote. On May 09 2015 05:48 y0su wrote: I don't have much time to answer everything... I would shoot you. I'm bad at reading what people post, but I think I'm catching on to some of the logic behind moves. Why did Super get RB'd and FF NK'd? The events leading up to EoD1 have Super pushing hardest for the train to move from scott to HtS. Let's assuming our two roles are indeed Doc/Vig. Why RB Super and NK FF? I thought FF's play towards the end of the day was a bit weak, why NK him? Medic dodge?. Yes, but why? Super was coming strong after HtS (when I read it later I thought it was just an attempt to get a 2nd train - especially with how he decided he didn't want a d2 lynch of HtS.) But what if scum didn't read it that way (at least during the night?) Now, there were 3 people on the HtS wagon (one being Prpl) and one vote on Prpl (so 3 potential vigilantes to look out for). They guessed right and RB'd the biggest danger to HtS (If HtS wasn't scum, WHY RB SOMEONE GUNNING FOR HER??). Now, why not just kill Super? Again, with his EoD charge against HtS it would look kind of obvious to kill him (and there's the possibility that he had a doc visit since Ritoky + Show Spoiler + beyond pro play by dis to pick up the CC in place of Ritoky, just a shame Ritoky thanked him instead of keeping up the charade Beyond that, I think SL and his "I do math for a living - trust me" is my "wtf stutters is town" #3. Anyway, been a long and hard day (had to put my cat down today) and I have a tournament to wake up early for tomorrow. (I'll recheck the thread in about 15 min before going to bed) | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
We're down to one scum. What has changed? Why? You didn't have thoughts on Stutters all game either. Why? On May 09 2015 05:48 y0su wrote: I don't have much time to answer everything... I would shoot you. I'm bad at reading what people post, but I think I'm catching on to some of the logic behind moves. Why did Super get RB'd and FF NK'd? The events leading up to EoD1 have Super pushing hardest for the train to move from scott to HtS. Let's assuming our two roles are indeed Doc/Vig. Why RB Super and NK FF? I thought FF's play towards the end of the day was a bit weak, why NK him? Medic dodge?. Yes, but why? Super was coming strong after HtS (when I read it later I thought it was just an attempt to get a 2nd train - especially with how he decided he didn't want a d2 lynch of HtS.) But what if scum didn't read it that way (at least during the night?) Now, there were 3 people on the HtS wagon (one being Prpl) and one vote on Prpl (so 3 potential vigilantes to look out for). They guessed right and RB'd the biggest danger to HtS (If HtS wasn't scum, WHY RB SOMEONE GUNNING FOR HER??). Now, why not just kill Super? Again, with his EoD charge against HtS it would look kind of obvious to kill him (and there's the possibility that he had a doc visit since Ritoky + Show Spoiler + beyond pro play by dis to pick up the CC in place of Ritoky, just a shame Ritoky thanked him instead of keeping up the charade Beyond that, I think SL and his "I do math for a living - trust me" is my "wtf stutters is town" #3. Anyway, been a long and hard day (had to put my cat down today) and I have a tournament to wake up early for tomorrow. (I'll recheck the thread in about 15 min before going to bed) [/QUOTE] If you still think it's either sicklucker or myself, what behaviour based actions are you seeing to draw those conclusions? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Or alternatively you can provide a baby seal which would save us all some trouble. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
But I can see the wifom argument coming from a newb townie. So I want a behaviour based argument. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 09 2015 11:20 ritoky wrote: I cc'd dis to try to eat a bullet for the doc and cause confusion abt who the mafia should shoot I am abt to get an appendectomy in 30 mins so if hosts want to sub me that is fine but I will be highly limited for 24 hrs On May 09 2015 11:24 ritoky wrote: It's a classic robik vt play Do you really think you would have achieved anything with that? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 09 2015 10:23 sicklucker wrote: No ritokys a confident mafia he can think thats a good idea in a newbie game. And what he did is null its just classic filler to have more posts. Reading yosus filter all im sure of is that hes not afraid to post which is a town tell for a first time mafia. His logic is flimsy but he posts what he thinks. Not what his scum qt tells him Which is why I'm curious to hear his answers. What do you think is the difference between newbie town and newbie scum? I'm guessing he's waiting for answers from the mafia qt? How do you know others weren't advising him? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
For sheer amusement: | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
First off, I said this on all the newbies and not just you at different points in the game. When you presented your reads, especially after others had made the same conclusion, it was difficult to tell whether you really felt what you were saying (or really came to that conclusion) or whether you just copied what others were saying. Sheeping (copying/parroting) in of itself is not a problem provided that you are sheeping honest town reads. A lot of what you had said was after what others had said. Veterans often (and this includes myself) get scumread for that. That said, even in my first game (student 4, link in my profile) as town vanilla, I did sheep a few reads D1/D2 and I almost got lynched for it D2. Fellow town Oatsmaster saw newbie scum in me and I was just a split second from getting hammered. However, newbie town and newbie scum generally do this a bit, so for me to make a solid case against you, I'd have to fully filter dive you and follow your progression. But given the amount you've been doing it, for awhile I felt I might need to keep my eye on you a bit. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Guess what sicklucker? Guess who tried to get me lynched on this? I also said I had a major problem with this too. Then ritoky comes out with this, which I mentioned why I had a problem with all this D1. On May 05 2015 01:26 ritoky wrote: i like hts because she is keying into the same posts as me i dislike hts because she is having opposite reactions to them. Off of one post without reading my filter he said this: On May 05 2015 04:54 ritoky wrote: wtf, this is way too diplomatic sounding. has damdred taken over your account and taught you the diplomacy voice? Then the full blown scumread - this read is very contrived which I contested afterwards. On May 05 2015 05:01 ritoky wrote: reasons being: you're noticing the same things i am but reading them opposite, you have an overly diplomatic tone that also feels forced, you're interested in a lot of things but not pushing for them, you don't feel obviously town, and your early reads were primarily summary reads that others had already made. The above is very contrived. The best part is that he uses tone to defend Superbia (when I pushed him) and then used it off one post to push me. I know him and Shining discussed that, the problem with ritoky's response is that he said that tone was my primary argument against Superbia. Actually. it wasn't. Here are the pertinent quotes from ritoky. On May 04 2015 02:03 ritoky wrote: he made one of the highest quality observations in the thread in regard to shining and i had literally the exact same thought reading the exact same thing: he is also giving definitive alignment reads instead of hedging. if i remember prp's play right he hedges a lot more as mafia. This response is straight up wrong. Could also be trying to take some attention off prplhz. Unfortunately Superbia did something similar, but I don't think he made a tonal argument against me. More or less and he's confirmed vigilante. So how do we know ritoky wasn't parroting off him? He called superbia and prplhz town. Even worse, he tried to deflect using vote logic (which I argued can be contorted to fit a mafia agenda) by saying that there's no way that two scum would be on my wagon out of three. I had argued prior that ritoky's rationale for trying to push my lynch based on tone was pretty screwy because he accused me of being diplomatic off one post. When I was actually pretty forceful on Superbia. Voting helps narrow, but I'm glad you're seeing the same thing I am sicklucker. I don't buy mindmelding at all, not on D1, anyone can say at any time that they mindmeld with people. It's something you can confirm to yourself and use to draw conclusion for yourself, but at the same time, making that a primary argument to the thread, there are so many things wrong with that. I want to stress this quote again: On May 05 2015 05:01 ritoky wrote: reasons being: you're noticing the same things i am but reading them opposite, you have an overly diplomatic tone that also feels forced, you're interested in a lot of things but not pushing for them, you don't feel obviously town, and your early reads were primarily summary reads that others had already made. I explained to ritoky why the first point does NOT make me scummy, yet he proceeded to push my lynch. Pages 35-39 have the progression of things. On May 05 2015 05:45 ritoky wrote: and there's such a tonal shift between this: and this: in terms of my 3rd point. you're actually pushing me on the points i made above, which is cool and i can get behind that. yet here you're curious and in passive voice and not actively seeking responses or answers, which i can't get behind and sounds mafia being diplomatic style. It's very difficult because I can see this going both ways on him. There were a lot of gaps in his logic as well in his SK/third party game (which is anti-town role btw, but not mafia). The only thing that complicates things is that Superbia also scumread me for reasons that didn't make me mafia either, though it didn't help RL nearly canned me D1. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
1 y0su 2 ritoky 3 sicklucker I will probably go through filters for everyone else to make sure no one is slipping by. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
If y0su flips town, all of ritoky's reads need to be under a microscope. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
y0su - I called you out for pinning me on night actions. I said before night actions are WIFOM. Meaning you cannot know why night actions happened the way they did unless you are the one coordinating it in the mafia qt. That said, On May 10 2015 22:34 y0su wrote: However, I'm still sticking to my guns that scum thought HtS was in danger night one (they KNEW there was a vig and might have legitimately feared for HtS). I think they just got lucky/unlucky with RBing super who was shooting at dis instead! how in the bloody hell are you speculating on this? I asked you again to state the behavioural reasons for voting me. If others are suspicious on behaviour and I'm suspicious on speculative night actions, what makes the night actions more certain than daytime behaviour? You're aware that scum can kill certain people or RB certain people to make others look bad, right? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
He is NOT coherent as EITHER alignment. He plays very suboptimally as town, which is why he's a policy lynch - his suboptimal play as town benefits his scum games. As town, he's not what you would call a typical town leader. He is generally difficult to read but one of the key differences that I can tell is that his pushes come earlier as town (even if they are soft pushes) and he has a general direction with his scumreads. As scum, he has never PoEed, that I can tell you, and I've been on a scumteam with him - that game (Void) he relied a LOT on other people's misreads of people. He had much LESS direction with his scumreads. If I'm making sense there. At this stage of the game, PoE is a valid method of scumhunting with two members eliminated. We have 2 ML until mylo (mislynch and lose) and sicklucker is still keeping his eyes open. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 10 2015 18:09 Tictock wrote: How is that town logic? Only scum tries to say that we don't have to bother to look for scum anymore. At this stage of the game that's the only thing Town has to NOT do. This is literally my first game ever of Mafia, I'm willing to say that the mechanics you've suggested this entire game are god awful and will never aid town. ##Vote: sicklucker ##Vote: sicklucker ##Vote: sicklucker How do you know this isn't suboptimal town play? I've seen games where town just got lazy and complacent. Namely Newbie LX (where the townies PoEed in lylo) and Guardians bled that everywhere, because people eliminated each other on the night actions. The result was scum getting eliminated from a few people's PoE lists. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
If y0su is scum, it basically means scum will have had a very inactive team. If there actually had been an active mafia, it probably is ritoky. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Not sure if ritoky was parroting Superbia's reasons regarding the second wagon, or if he actually suggested that first. Might need to check who presented those ideas. If he stated those ideas first then it's another point in his favour of being town. Also probably should double check what the thread sentiment was like when he started to push Stutters, although I think this is probably the strongest point in his favour. Same with prplhz when he said role or mafia - I was pretty sure by then more people were looking at him. He didn't have to take that route though I'm not sure that he and prplhz played together often besides Titanic. For him to be familiar with him. To be fair when Superbia wanted to push my lynch he told the thread that I was either a PR (power role) or mafia. But he didn't ask me outright (like rit did prplhz) - he just told the thread that. I dunno if that really makes a difference, but if I had to split hairs Superbia just expressed his opinion to the thread and did not ask me to claim. He was the first vote against me anyways, so I think he took the (slightly) more town approach to it. Celestial makes a few good arguments against ritoky taking credit but I have to do serious filter diving to make sure the sequence of events particularly with the thread sentiment and his push on prplhz really lines up that way. Otherwise we really could just be paranoid as shit all when y0su could very well be another gimme mafia. It'd be unusual for a mafia team to play like this (inactive on aggregate), but it has happened. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
y0su didn't appear to have a stance on tictock prior, I don't think. So how does he know that tictock is a good person to sheep (or recognising that someone is townie enough and solid enough to have a case to sheep). (Answer that question if you are here please.) Basically 1 How you are sure Tictock is town 2 How you're sure sicklucker is mafia 3 Why am I more mafia than sicklucker using a behaviour based argument (you currently have your vote on me) | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 10 2015 18:14 sicklucker wrote: So thats why im voting him. Think id rather tictoc over yosu but I really dont care sicklucker, when you return... You have a PoE list of three people. Can you rank them? We're getting closer to EoD. I have seen your reasons for calling each of your three people scum - ritoky, yosu, tictock, but what is the order in which you'd lynch them, and what makes one scummy over another? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 10 2015 18:14 sicklucker wrote: I would acualy rather see yosu dead over ritoky. My logic is if hes town then hes not going to derp away an auto win an dvote me here like the newer players will Have you seen ritoky's PoE list? It's Shining and myself as the last mafia. On May 10 2015 06:49 ritoky wrote: i get home in probably 4 hrs, so i will read it more thoroughly there. that said, my initial thoughts is that SL has been tunneled pretty hard on me for a lot of the game, which doesn't seem like a winning strat as the last mafia alive. he is high on the lynch list, tunneling me and me flipping town will only put him closer to the lynch so idk...doesn't seem like a winning line of play. TT statistically likely town -c- pretty much town superbia conf town y0su considered my claim so might be town. which leaves shining and hts....so after i read your SL read, i should probably read those 2 filters. Not sure what he means by tictock being "statistically likely" but more important, what do you think about his PoE list different from yours? You've PoEed Tictock and y0su, yet you suspect ritoky who provides those reasons for towning two of your PoEs. Thoughts on that? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 11 2015 00:34 y0su wrote: HtS, you keep saying N1 actions are WIFOM. Explain how? WIFOM comes from the film the Princess Bride where the guy keeps switching the wine glasses and the other guy wasn't sure which wine glass had the poison and he keeps second guessing himself. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=WIFOM Basically it's circular reasoning. You're sure I'm mafia because Superbia pushed me and Superbia got roleblocked because he pushed my lynch. Consider that we have two veterans who have flipped scum. How do you know that they didn't kill the people to make those they scumread look bad? That's an example from the wiki but... Concept: The Mafia knows that there is a Doctor, and the Doctor's best play is to protect the Cop no matter what, so they should not try to kill the Cop. BUT the Doctor knows this too, and can protect someone other than the Cop in order to have a chance at stopping the night-kill. But the Mafia knows that the Doctor has this option, and they may be able to kill the Cop if the Doctor thinks that they aren't going to try it. But the Doctor knows... etc. Basically the reasoning here is one of two possibilities 1 Mafia roleblocked Superbia to protect me. 2 Mafia roleblocked Superbia to make me look bad BECAUSE Superbia pushed me. We have two veterans in the game. Is it not reasonable to think they'd take advantage of newbie towns thinking this? Also consider that Fecalfeast got killed. I believe FF townread me. He was suspicious of Superbia and ritoky based on tone. So where does that rationale take you if you're going to conclude on night actions? Many reasons were thrown out for FF getting killed. 1 Medic dodge 2 Disinformation I think suggested that FF could have been on to someone. 3 No reasonable shot of getting lynched. It's WIFOM because you can go in circles trying to debate which is the most likely. That's what that means. Am I making sense? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 06 2015 05:53 Fecalfeast wrote: current scummers: sl, shining, maybe super, maybe ritoky maybes based on tonereads recently. town: HtS, disambiguation, -c- Playing video games til daypost So based on your rationale, the four in his list might be scum? Or are most likely? We're down to one scummer, and Shining and sicklucker are both alive. Superbia has since been confirmed town vigilante. Based on night actions alone they both can't be scum. Now you see why night actions are a horrible reason (esp early game) to scumread someone? That's why I'm asking for a behaviour based argument. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 11 2015 01:03 y0su wrote: The options you present don't fit that mold because there's motivation behind them. RB on super to make you look bad is worse (for scum) than simply having you shot incorrectly (if you're town). Couple of flaws with this - Scum also have to keep their mislynch options open. If Superbia shoots incorrectly and I'm flipped town, they also have to fabricate reads for d2. I am aware this is a WIFOM argument but veteran scumteams have done this before. My point is that all outcomes have to be considered and using just one is dangerous. Now... An even bigger flaw in your argument. You even said yourself just now that Superbia dropped me as a scumread (and he subsequently went off on Stutters). He pinged Stutters for being an afk lurker and Stutters flips mafia vanilla N2. So how do I still look bad? Superbia pings Stutters at night and he was roleblocked. How are you still sure that I'm mafia based on these night actions? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 11 2015 00:31 y0su wrote: Super pretty much said he was off of voting you right after the d2 started. At that point you didn't have a reason to be afraid of him. [...] The strongest thing I currently have is the N1 actions. I'm not going to throw away my vote like Scott did and if that means switching to SL I will - because I do support the arguments for it. If I'm dead either way then I'll keep my vote on you just as a reminder to others. I questioned him on this as to why he switched his focus N1. First quote out of the gate N1. On May 05 2015 23:33 Superbia wrote: Stutters, you were obviously around at EoD. You responded to my ninja ping out within seconds. You were lurking. Why the fuck would you lurk at EoD if you were town? He said he dropped it after the lynch. On May 07 2015 03:04 Superbia wrote: 1. If you were going to say either, I would want to know your thought process behind it, and how it has affected your progression of reads (are you re-evaluating, etc.). This is why I don't want to explain shit like this. I don't want scum (and therefore, anyone) to know the idea behind the questions I'm asking. Is it benign? Is it serious? Who knows but me. 3. Except FF was never blue there, and thus a shitty medic dodge. If I thought FF was blue I would've pressured him EoD (or EoN, w/e) for changing his mind on things to generally dodgy reads and see if I can get a better role-read on him. Instead, when Ritoky (iirc) asks me what I think of FF, and I say he's probably still town and I leave it at that. Scum don't give a shit about who they roleblock n1 specifically for this reason. You are going about it the wrong way. I am town and scum had some sort of role-read on me. No idea why. 4. BECAUSE I DONT KNOW HIS ALIGNMENT. He was pushing hard on prp the entire time and he was shady as fuck for lurking EoD1 (still is) and getting caught hard (oh btw, pretty everyone I've caught lurking at EoD1 has been scum during past games). Then all he does is tunnel on prp hard for small, benign reasons and throwing some scum on me (iirc), which is just scummy as fuck. So, I want to know if I need to waste my time reading him or if we can lynch prp and I can re-evaluate from that flip. The whole different game same story thing is cute, but ultimately irrelevant. It's supposed to be about my alignment, not your opinion on cop outing early d2 with a red. Wanting the cop to out with a red in a vacuum is absolutely not alignment indicative, let alone these circumstances (which make it probably more town-indicative). 6. What does this have to do with anything? Maybe I answered your initial question incorrectly: I caught stutters actively lurking red-handedly. I thought it was super scummy, I go after stutters. I saw no reason to keep bashing heads with you since the lynch was already done, and I had room to re-evaluate everything. I challenged him on this and he had dropped me for that reason N1. He pinged Stutters N1 and he was roleblocked, funny how Stutters wasn't mentioned in your assessment... | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Newb town? Or newb scum? I need to check into ritoky - note to self... | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 11 2015 02:16 ritoky wrote: I honestly think he is a newb who hasn't been able to fully keep up with the thread and you just bullied him into a direction. That's what that felt like. I actually find this post pretty hilarious. Earlier you said I was scum for not following through on people. y0su is my top scumread (whether you agree with it or not is a separate issue) and I'm attempting to flesh out information to ensure he's not a newbie town playing suboptimally. I'm pointing out flaws in his logic and you are calling it bullying? He already had a direction on me and I explained the flaws in it. I also love how you use a tonal argument to infer scum on me. Remember how you said it was a problem using it against Superbia? *yawn* Double standards aren't doing you any favours right now. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [ritoky] + Newbie Mini Mafia LV Town Jailkeeper Killed Night 2 [N] TL Order Mafia LXVI Town Vanilla Lynched Day 5 TL Mafia LXVII: Storm Mafia 2 Town Vanilla Killed Night 4 Showdown Mafia Town Suicide Bomber Killed Night 1 Cell (Mini?) Mafia III Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 5 Mission Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Killed Night 4 Hearthstone Mafia Town Uther Lightbringer Endgamed Day 4 VI Titanic Mini Mafia: The Return of MSPaint Town Medic Killed Night 4 TL Mafia LXIX: Carol Of The Bells Mafia Two-Shot Vigilante Lynched Day 3 Imperial Mafia Mafia Vanilla Lynched Day 4 VII Titanic Mini Mafia: I Have a Cunning Plan... Third Party Serial Killer Endgamed Night 4 + Show Spoiler [sicklucker] + Campus Mafia Town Vanilla Lynched Day 7 VI Titanic Mini Mafia: The Return of MSPaint Mafia Roleblocker Endgamed Day 5 Student Mafia IV Town Vanilla Killed Night 3 TL Mafia LXIX: Carol Of The Bells Town Vanilla Survived Night 5 Metal Mini Mafia! Town Vanilla Modkilled Night 3 Imperial Mafia Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 6 The Void Mafia Mafia Rolecop Survived Day 5 PYP: Pick Your Protoss Mini Mafia Town Probe Survived Day 2 Linux Mini Mafia Mafia Vanilla Modkilled Day 1 Horn of Africa Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Modkilled Day 1 Slytherin Mini Mafia Mafia Vanilla Lynched Day 2 I need to also meta ritoky and follow through on him to be absolutely sure he's scum as I've yet to play a game with him when he's town. I have to afk again, but I'll post final judgement before EoD. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I'm not seeing too much in the direction of critical thought from him, but I just need some opinions on that one way or another from the others. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 11 2015 03:12 ritoky wrote: ? you asked for opinions on the exchange and i gave you one. i think it's pretty clear you just browbeat the guy. I didn't have a problem with the fact you gave an opinion. I have a problem with how you stated it based on your standards for scumreading people earlier in the game. Those standards of yours are changing through out the game. Why? That is what I am challenging. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 11 2015 03:17 ritoky wrote: What standards? I said you bullied him into siding with you, that has nothing to do with tone. You literally just browbeat him with walls of text until he acquiesced. Yawn. Standards being the lack of followthrough and the tonal read, this is about the third time or even more than that tone has come up. Also your responses show you aren't critically looking at why he changed direction. Nor did you appear to even analyse my walls of text (other than saying it was walls of text). | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 11 2015 03:19 ritoky wrote: When someone posts the post: "fuck you, i am not posting a lot this game" this directly translates to: "hi everyone, i am a role or mafia". on day 1 you should always play assuming that person is a role. i am trying to teach you how to town. Didn't you townread him earlier for having the same thoughts as you (scumreading me) DESPITE posting that in the opening stages of the game? On May 05 2015 01:30 ritoky wrote: y'know i gave prp a early town read cuz he made a quality observation, then i layed off him cuz he did a "fuck you" post, which always gives me the hots. but this kinda disengaged is kinda meh. you're falling on my list big boy. stutters is also declining rapidly at this point. place them both on the lynchable list. Look at the timestamps. "Fuck you" post by prplhz comes in at: On May 04 2015 03:39 prplhz wrote: if you want to lynch me for low post count then you should do it now because i'm going to post a lot less this game. that game (like many other games) i tried to spam myself town. that's also why i have joined out of time mafia, because i want to stop spamming so much. anyway the reason i haven't posted a lot is because i haven't been around. @superbia @ritoky what do you think about celestial? he is coming on as super tryhard, like nothing i've ever seen before. he stands out a lot compared to the general relaxed atmosphere in the thread. didn't filter him yet (dunno how much i can get out of that this early anyway) but it's just something that been sticking out a lot. also @superbia happy birthday! Ritoky was IN THREAD at the time this happened (click the # icon to check who else was posting - it takes you to the exact placement of the post in the entire thread). He only scumread him when prplhz fell off. You were adamant about it when thread sentiment was shifting that way. Why not when the "fuck you" post came on through? | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 11 2015 03:30 -Celestial- wrote: She was explaining the term WIFOM. Which was highly relevant. The fact that you're misrepresenting this makes it even more likely that you're scum. I'm seeing similar jumps/misrepresentations in logic as he's making when he was serial killer in Titanic. Whoop-de-doo ritoky - the princess bride reference was all in reference to WIFOM which directly influenced y0su's read on me. My purpose was to flesh out newb town or newb scum from that. I've resolved the WIFOM argument but I've not resolved the parroting argument - he's sheeping tictock on the sicklucker read. There was absolute purpose in that, and again shows you're not thinking critically or taking it out of context. Yawn. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 07 2015 07:04 ritoky wrote: y0su's reason for greening me is bad. his reads are too conformy, and i don't buy his remorse and what i said would have changed his vote line all that much. you fighting with him and bit and pushing on eachother doesn't feel like 2 town fighting. 1 of you is mafia. for you being mafia, would take more time and capabilities to explain. On May 07 2015 07:09 ritoky wrote: hm that made no sense. y0su doing cool stuff that i like to scum read me, i TR him, he softens on me cuz of my TR, he then greens me for bad reason, i no like. On May 10 2015 03:49 ritoky wrote: Also idk if y0su is mafia will have to read more later, but didn't he actually consider my claim? That makes him less likely in my mind If you're town you have a lot of double standards. You scummed him earlier for being too conformy and then he just sheeps tictock's read on sicklucker. He towned him early d1, and it was on a read that things have changed since. On May 10 2015 22:34 y0su wrote: I like TT's points about SL + Show Spoiler + On May 07 2015 05:25 y0su wrote: Right now I think I'm most willing to vote SL. I'm really disappointed in his d2 content and reasons for voting super. (yes I have super red, but not for the same reasons - I feel like he's doing the most to confuse town) TS could still slip into a tie with prp. Superbia has since been confirmed town, and this is what he quoted FIVE HOURS AGO from his own thoughts FOUR DAYS AGO. He's not even critically looking at sicklucker. At least not that I could find in his filter. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 11 2015 04:07 Superbia wrote: Oh and because he kinda mindmelded with certain stuff, but that's probably because he had tmi. z_z This is exactly why I hate the mindmelding argument. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 11 2015 04:11 Half the Sky wrote: I took a hard look at the manner at which y0su considered your claim ritoky. Honestly he could be saying that as either alignment. Several others who reflected on that situation had similar sentiments. To elaborate on this - you (ritoky) said that "a newbie couldn't think of this situation" to be fair presuming he's scum, he's on a scumteam with two vets and a coach, as town he has one, we know jack all what's being said to him and he's playing out a list of hypotheticals. Which can be done as either alignment. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Compare that to tictock and (flipped medic) disinformation. He's also asking a load of questions and not seeing much conclusions and you even called him comformy yourself. You should examine whether this is happening again as he's voting sicklucker. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I think my concerns are quite clear on both players, but my vote stays on y0su. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 11 2015 05:01 y0su wrote: lol yes the drink (scotch and amaretto) is a Godfather Ahhhhhhhhh. I see. Damn, we were right all along. GGs y0su. Everyone else, told you he was newbie scum | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 11 2015 04:59 y0su wrote: GG WP you guys we great but I don't think this is the game for me Also I'm going to be honest. I will tell you the same thing I told Celestial when we were mafia together and it was his first game. Mafia side is MUCH harder to play than town side. So failure as this alignment your first game, I would not let it discourage you. You're new here, so set goals for yourself what you want to accomplish each game. You aren't going to be a top town or mafia player overnight. It takes time. And you need to work on your town game before you can get better at the scum side. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
But seriously I wouldn't get discouraged. Yes, you RNGed into a very inactive team. That's the other thing, everyone plays the scum side differently. Some people don't play scum when they RNG scum, and that can really hurt those who are giving it an honest go, or trying to. I think you were hurt by your team in the sense of interactions which Superbia called you out on. But individually you sheeped reads without taking the time demonstrably yourself to come to a conclusion on them. Your scum read on sicklucker was a red flag to me because sicklucker's gameplay had changed, yet you were relying on a read four days ago to come to your conclusion. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I actually enjoy playing the scum side, provided RL gives me enough time to play the game. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Only now I realise that ritoky's logic and reasoning doesn't match up with mine. I have quite different criteria when I scumhunt. It was hard trying not to scumread him for things that didn't necessarily make him mafia. I had a semi-parnoia feeling though because ritoky is just so bloody good at mafia side, I was getting scared he was the active mafia. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 11 2015 05:26 plotspot wrote: huh? What does it mean "y0su has fled"? Can you just give up like this? Mafia are permitted to concede at a reasonable point in the game. They lost a ML with the vigishot and y0su was the only one left. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 11 2015 05:29 kitaman27 wrote: Says the person who PM'd me prior to the game starting specifically asking for a town coach -_- Well I have no idea where the RNG gods will smile or frown. I leave that to the RNG gods. Still much appreciated Kita. My town game needed a load of work, and I'm glad I just had some input trying to work on my weaknesses this game. <3 | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Honestly, the reference "town donkey" is noted about a town player who is playing suboptimally. Basically town players who play like scum, like sicklucker. You will hear others use the term "donkey" or "town donkey" it just means that your play isn't helping town. That's all he means. Personally I found your play more helpful than I did ritoky's but like I said in D1, ritoky and I had different perspectives on reading people based on my experience with players and his lack of experience with those same players. To me, in D1, not having the same reads as someone isn't cause for concern, it's how they get there. Which that mentality worked in getting y0su. So I don't feel so badly now lol. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
And that's something I can safely say for most of this community, things get heated in game, but people drop it after post-game. Even when town loses (and there's a lot of people fussed about the result) people get things off their chest post-game, mods are there to keep the peace, and people move on afterwards. It's honestly something you (and even I to an extent) need to work on. Even as town, you're not going to be perfect overnight. Sorry about my skepticism toward you all game HtS, it's just for some reason you have a way with new players and swaying them into your loving embrace. That terrifies me in games like this, so I refused to town read you all game out of a similar paranoia that you hold for me LOL. Also rit, I have done this as both alignments. Beyond my alignment, part of me thinks "if this newb has this question why isn't the newbie asking a coach" but if you interpreted that as buddying I can see why you'd think that to be a problem. People who know my play better should treat that as NAI, though I was trying to use WIFOM as an argument because that was y0su's main argument against me. I just had some difficulty trying to make sense I wasn't scumming people for things that didn't necssarily make them scum, and then stacking against experience. It took a while for me to get out of it on ritoky until I realised why he thought y0su was town...and why he might be wrong. Live and learn. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Unlucky, that. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
10/10 to Kita on the animated gifs with the cycle posts. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 11 2015 10:24 Tictock wrote: GG Feels like I was useless. No you weren't. The first thing a townie has to master is looking townie. Which you did. By showing us you were townie and how organic your reads were (I doubted that at points, but others were sure on you), we were able to focus on other people that looked scummier on you. There's a flip side to that as mafia, but even if you aren't the best at finding scum, looking town helps the faction. There are many ways to scumhunt btw and as long as we can follow what you're doing reasonably well, you generally will be okay as town. Same thing as I told y0su, being a top town doesn't happen overnight. Patience is required. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I know you're just off writing your dissertation but holy shit. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 12 2015 11:34 Tictock wrote: It was also a bit odd playing since I often found myself posting when nobody was around. D3 was the first day where I felt like I had an idea who and how I should push on, but the interactions felt so sour. Especially my exchange with SL left me pretty frustrated. Actually that's why I only posted that snippet before, wanted to give myself time to calm down and reflect before posting again. I think I said this in thread during game and I'll say it again - this is pure luck of the draw with the people who signed up. Most newbie games I'm used to there being a load of Americans and being one of the few Euros, but the last two games had more Euros, NSM9 has probably had the most Euros I've seen in a newbie game tbh. In this game, the first two to die were NA players, so it's inevitable this was going to happen. Trust me, I've been there. I wake up and realising no one is going to be in thread for several hours - well you need to post something or just get your ideas out. On the flip side, I have to go to bed sooner, and I miss out on a lot of the conversations that do happen with the NA players. But you're playing a game with people from everywhere you have to adjust either way. You'll get used to both conversational and case-based styles of posting in the mafia games and you have to be pretty decent at both especially if you are not around when others are. Posting something (even if talking to a wall) is better than nothing at all and you can always go back and read through the thread and ask questions and field questions from people from several pages prior. People can't scumread you for any natural delays because of timezone. + Show Spoiler + First off this is more or less about my stuff with SL, trying not to be personal about it, but if I fail sorry. So I get that he plays this super lazy style, but I don't get why everyone just accepts it. I mean I put together some pretty solid reasons why I thought he was scum this game and put some effort into detailing why I thought that. This is instantly brushed off by everyone who isn't new SIMPLY because that's his Meta. Like really? Metas change you guys, if SL knows that he never does PoE as scum and knows that you all know that, whats to stop him just throwing that into a game as scum and suddenly everyone goes, "ok thats his town meta, mark him green"? Maybe the biggest reason why that bugs me is because this is a newbie game. A game that HAS to have multiple new players who are learning. I noticed you guys tend to push newbies quite a bit and point out when their reads are weak in an instance. When I was seeing this I thought "of man, these guys are really gunna me on my feet, much less scum." Then I see SL doing the same stuff (giving weak, or unbacked reads, posting very little, etc) and everyone goes, "Oh he plays like that" How am I supposed to take this as a new person here? It's a bit of a double standard to push new players for stuff but excuse vets for the same stuff. A new player has literally NO WAY of understanding anyone's metas and besides reading past games has no way of learning. So either we have to accept what is being said about that person (removing our ability to judge them on our on) or go spend a ton of extra time reading for peoples metas. Why should we have to do all that work to understand a player who is just lazy? I might not mind this style of play so much, expect that SL was outright giving bad advice to town the whole game. As town... in a NEWBIE game... simply because he's too lazy to do real reading so he comes up with "great mechanical plays." In addition when I was pressuring him D3, he keeps giving me glib one line responses, and eventually stars just calling me names. One post that showed more than 5 seconds of thought or minimal effort would have given me pause, but that's too much effort. That REALLY bugs me. Then he just gets defended and my whole bit of reasoning is thrown out the window, because of one word, Meta. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say meta reads should never happen. I totally get the value, I just see Meta reads as possibly misleading due to changing metas. It's when that's literally the ONLY defense for a person's actions/play that late in a game. That's an issue for me. I feel like this is telling me I shouldn't bother to try so hard. It might look bad to be lazy, but it will soon get read not as lazy, but as meta. Not only will it let me avoid reading or giving more than minimal effort, but it makes my scum game easier to play since my town game already will luck scummy. Are you guys really ok sending this message? So thats my rant, here is my question. Given that SL's town play is at best lazy, and possibly hugely detrimental to town (if we had followed his play on D2...) why isn't he just a policy lynch every game? You possibly catch an easy scum, at worst get rid of an unreliable town. Regarding sicklucker, his town meta and scum meta are pretty close and he can cause confusion for town. He HAS been mislynched as a result (reference: JOAT) and in theory he should be getting hit with DT checks (assuming any DT plays optimally) as a potential active mafia. For players like sicklucker, and others whose metas are too close together or who play extremely well as scum, one thing you'll learn is that you will have to evaluate these people differently from others. Again, this takes time. Also on sicklucker's personality - again, no one means anything personal here. Sometimes it's easy to forget that. People will criticise your arguments and someone might get extremely angry at someone's gameplay especially if they threw the game for town. If mafia know someone loses focus, they will try to get in that person's head. (Of note, personal attacks/excessive swearing/bad behaviour will get warnings/bans from moderators.) But after post-game everyone lets it go. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 12 2015 21:31 disformation wrote: So. Since this was my first Mafia game on TL.net: any additional advice from the vets? Before the game I was like "please don't give me a power role." So initially I was I was pretty unhappy with being the doc. Glad it worked out kinda well for town. Things I noted from this game: - Entry post terribad (terrible and bad): try to appear more casual next game. - Overdone the emoticon thing at the start of the game, which made me seem unnatural. - I should try to be more confident in my reads and stop waffling all over the place. - Probably should also push more aggressively as town. - Should maybe also put out own reads more often and be less lurky. Sometimes after making a post or reading an interesting discussion I was just lurking around waiting for reactions or answers instead of trying to advance my reads. Other than that, I am kinda pleased with this being my first game. Not sure if I will join newbie student mafia X, since I am falling a bit behind my schedule for my master thesis. But I will try to get that sorted out the next few weeks, so I hope I'll be able to join XI.  Emoticons are hit or miss. A lot of people interpret them differently. My entrances are generally rubbish as either alignment. You can always bounce back from a bad entrance by just sticking adamantly to town agenda, giving and pushing your reads. There are situations where it's okay to waffle but don't do it all the time and make sure you make it clear to the thread WHY you're waffling. If you are seeing both town and scum behaviour in someone, even if you cannot decide, spell it out and maybe someone more knowledgeable can see it. Or maybe you help someone see things they didn't. Confidence is the key issue and pushing is the main one a lot of veterans will gripe about with other veterans and it's also what makes the NSM games difficult for us in trying to separate the newbie play from scum play. You didn't do badly at all for your first game, you had to counterclaim prplhz (from your perspective) though on my end given his play and the timing of his claim (6h prior to EoD is too premature...1-2h is more acceptable) even if he had claimed DT, I would not have believed it and I would have proceeded to push his lynch based on gameplay. But things like that you figure out only through experience. Your medic save on Superbia was fine N1 since he was most obvious town. Celestial would have also been acceptable. You are also always free to shadow veteran players in veteran games or ask for an Observer QT for games in progress that you want to follow so you can try and practice reading people without having to worry on the time commitment for posting. | ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On May 13 2015 02:04 Tictock wrote: I'm not sure I understand why that is such a distinct difference, especially factoring in time zones. Time zones have nothing to do with it. EoD is the same distinct point for everyone, not the same time for everyone. EoD for me this game was midnight. If you're US East, it's 7pm. Either way, 6h prior to that regardless of the actual time, the argument is that 6 hours is more than enough time for someone to demonstrate/case a different lynch or act town and change people's minds. If you can act town without having to claim you are also likely to escape being a blue role nightkill and you won't hurt town through the loss of your ability. Claiming too early in this respect is suboptimal for town. One hour, however, is not enough time to "bleed town" as you'll hear others say. In veteran games by then (assuming the vote isn't extremely close), most people's minds are made up. When a blue role claims, they have to be ready to explain all their actions/saves/checks immediately, end of. | ||
| ||
