EPTNoir Mini Mafia: Chapter 3
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
I would like to note that whatever mistakes I made I was 100% right that game! I'm really excited about this game, and for once I get to play with one of my wacky mechanics :D | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On April 20 2015 13:46 GlowingBear wrote: Minus the irc conversation with Artanis where you were totes happy that you've got a 1v1 trade LOLOLOLOL OK, I didn't happen to be correct... but I was right. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
Let's take a look at how things start off. The game begins, and Damdred starts off with some typical troll posts that you see at the start of games: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24117712 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24117713 which are unmeaningful. A page or two later, Damdred starts complaining about votes being thrown around (link) and says he hates it. He doesn't explicitly state that he thinks it's a bad idea, but there you go. Then, he says he hasn't read the game, then, he votes me (link) for "not playing" when the game is at its very outset. This is almost the definition of a vote being "thrown around", something that damdred hates. Then, he says he thinks I'm scum (link) in response to someone saying he needs to play, even though he is supposedly town and admits taht he hasn't played ("I'll play don't worry"). So,w hat's Damdred even thinking here? Like, the people who come in later and want to policy me for having an excuse, sure, that's fine. The people who hate me for not posting for 24 hours, I get them. These are all actually reasonable reasons to scumread me. It is literally Classic Blazinghand play to use an IRL excuse to not play. (I would note, by the way, that I merely asked for more time, something easily attained in this game-- surely there's no problem there. This isn't a traditional deadline game). Regardless of their own skills, people can reasonably say that me posting after 18 hours saying "haha IRL reasonz duderz" is classic scum Blazinghand. And it is. But what's Damdred doing here? and then, look at this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24118610 Damdy posts a list post here, in which he states that I'm scum and he would vote for woS, and various other thoughts. Do we see any progression up to this? Does this actually do anything to help anyone? Of course not. Does he have questions for others, does he want to look at the game? No, he does not. This isn't Damdred pushing his ideas, this isn't Damdred trying to convince peopel to vote me even, it's just... filler. And he even calls it silly. That doesn't make it not scummy, that he calls it silly. He later comes, and uh, asks himself some questions (link). The fact that he asks himself the questions is like, minorly townie I guess since he's having fun. I don't think it really makes him town though. now he goes calling me scum based on me being "active elsewhere", (link) which seems pretty strange to me given that the only place I was posting (IIRC) was posting the D1 post to start the newbie game, which was actually before the start of Hapa's game. If I'm really active elsewhere, Damdred, why not bring exampels? Why not quote or link the posts I'm making elsewhere, or whatever? Now maybe it's against your ethics or whatever, but wait a second, clearly it's NOT since you mentioned it. So, another accusation with no oomph, more statements without real backup. Let's take a look at Damdy's post in more depths and let's see if he's actually contributing here, or just making noise. On April 21 2015 15:20 Damdred wrote: This part is a bit trickier, trfel as scum in my experience likes to be in the thick of the action trying to shape other peoples reads and causing subtle confusions. Very unlike bh scum game which is more behind the scenes, besides trfels last bit post who h was ok that puts him more towards the bottom of null rather than town. This is nothing. This is like, not even trying to scumhunt. First off, I don't see any actual mention of games. What experience? Maybe it's just a light meta read of trfel, but where did this come from? Even a mention of like "when I played with him in cell and he was scum there" or whatever (as I think Damdred says later in his filter about me) would make sense, but we don't see anything. Also worth noting here that this read isn't something you'd capitalize on. In fact, this entire paragraph is just scummier. "Towards the bottom of null" is like, the least read you can give someone that will most likely make me think you're scum. Here's what this looks like to me. Damdy wants to lynch trfel, maybe later, so he can't be seen actively defending trrfel without getting some heat. He doesn't want to lynch trfel yet though, he's hoping to get a wagon rolling on me in the first 24h. If he actively turns up the heat on trfel he'd have to commit to it, or talk about it, and genearlly as scum Damdy wants as little preassure as possible. so he makes this minor read on trfel. It "sets up" for his later scumread, but for now, bam, looks vague enough he won't get pressed on it, but gives him some cred later. town wouldn't bother wasting all this time talking about a "bottom of null" read. Definitey scum move. On April 21 2015 15:20 Damdred wrote: Breshke is one of the greatest forces of good in the thread amen. Has some of the highest activity good thoughts questions and interacting with everyone he can. Really good town atm. this could be an emptry quote and it would share the same amount of info. Damdred here isn't doing anything useful or providing insights, but the buddying with Breshke comes nonetheless. On April 21 2015 15:20 Damdred wrote: So, I don't even understand how anyone can let damdred get away with this paragraph. He's like, talking about the "uneveness" between how wave treats art and yamato? again, no evidence, other than he notes that wave has a different opinion on art and yam's alignment. You can't just call something strange and make it strange. What a vague read! Another classic scum move. Look at the strange uneveness that wave uses between arts is and Yamato for instance it caught my eye pretty fast. He is perfectly fine with art and gives art a town lean(later on) for the way he voted for him even if it was silly. Really strange reactions and slight jnconsitincies in how he is playing and interacting push him to this level. We can look at the followup to this to see more revelatory info about Damdred (and I thank rsoultin for being in thread to draw this out" On April 21 2015 15:24 rsoultin wrote: so you're not satisfied with his explanation at the bottom of the previous page? mind saying why not? On April 21 2015 15:26 Damdred wrote: How can you be satisfied with such a drastic over reaction? Arts is is a great player who sheeped onto what at that point in time a joke vote with a seemingly joke phrase and vote. And wave gives this as a response I don't buy it at all, its over explaining and not really saying anything On April 21 2015 15:29 rsoultin wrote: the overreaction is explained by not understanding the lynch mechanic xP and he wasn't the only one who didn't understand it daaaaamdy as for the artie vs. yama thing...i don't agree with the analysis but i don't think wrong = scum lol >< and can see how he arrived at the conclusion now that he's explained it do you have a specific example(s) of the bh meta you were referring to? On April 21 2015 15:29 Damdred wrote: Literally it might be one of the worst reasons to town read someone ever. Do scum never do pressure votes or joke votes and then not do much else? So, leaving off the reply about my meta (which is actually interesting), here's the Wave post they were talking about: On April 21 2015 13:03 WaveofShadow wrote: This is the absolute final time. I'm going to spell it out so it's absolutely crystal fucking clear, and if it's still not enough then just go ahead and lynch me for it or some shit because unless it's going somewhere, this is ridiculous already. Yamato gave some reason directly referencing something he said to me outside of the game that i don't remember, probably something he jokingly said to me at some point yesterday or the day before...? I don't consider that a reason because it has zero direct reference to anything that occurs within the confines of this game and is directly related to something yamato and I supposedly talked about. As that is the case, he would do it as either alignment since supposedly he said he would do it and therefore is completely alignment UNindicative. Artanis' reason I have no knowledge of and has no direct reference to me, so I naturally find it a little odder to bring something like that up---it is my opinion that that could draw more attention than something yamato can directly reference to something he and I supposedly did First off, I think we can all agree this is a pretty bullshit explanation. The more likely truth is that Waveofshadow wasn't paying attention or got confused or something, and is now embarassed about it, and invented an explanation. "Oh, Yamato referenced an out of game thing that I have since forgotten about, and that's the reason" is like, actually one of the worst explanations I have ever heard. The thign is, though, if WoS were scum and had the freedom to invent an explanation, he'd probably come up with a good one. the only reason he'd use such a lame explanation is if there's a kernel of truth to it. Maybe he and Yamato are lovers IRL, for example, and it was a whisper passed between them in the bedsheets. Who knows. The point is, the fact that woS is being so strikingly weird about his not-an-affair reason for not scumreading Yams is actually evidence WoS as town. No way scum comes up with something so strange. So, rsoultin rightly notes that the overexplaining is a town thing. Damdred calls it an overreaction and doesn't say why that's actually scummy. What's happening here is that Damdred isn't having a scumread follow a logic. Instead of observation + logic -> scumread, he's doing scumread + observation -> logic. In other words, he's using what happened in thread, plus his PLAN to scumread WoS (who is very bad at defending himself in general) and then CREATING FALSE LOGIC to populate his read. Basically, Damdred isn't finding the truth, he's stating a read in his head then working back from it to find an explanatino. That's why he says stuff like "it's the worst town read" or whatever without explaninig why, because there *is* no "why", not until Damdred creates it. Moving on, Damdred (link) reasonably brings up some of my past games, though in Aperture I don't think I mentioned anything IRL, I mostly just goofed around and rode my claim (and boy did I ride it!) to victory. Cell mafia I am pretty sure I pretended to be moving house. That was fucking awesome. hahaha. Man I'm awesome. In any case, just cause Damdy's right that I'm an amazing scum player doesn't mean that he's town. Scum isn't forbidden from saying true things; it happens. At this point, Damdred comes back after 13 hours, and in the past 13 hours, I have made this post: On April 22 2015 01:43 Blazinghand wrote: Hey guys, yesterday was my last day at my old job and today is my first day at my new one. Can't check tl mafia at ork during my first day on the job, sorry. I haven't read the thread and won't be able to until 00:00 GMT (+00:00)'£. Please extend day by 24 hours and dint lynch me Now let's say you're Damdred as town somehow. You think Blazinghand is pulling the classic "I am blazinghand and I alone out of all TL Mafia players have the manliness to lie about IRL things". You fucking CALL it, youv ote him, then you come back to the thread and he has made one SOLITARY post int he first like 18 hours of the game, and it's LITERALLY AN IRL EXCUSE. What's your response? Do you: A) Call BH scum and quote his single post B) Call BH scum and note that he played just as you acted. C) Start asking other players why they're accepted BH's bad excuses, and call him scum. or... D) make some vague noises at BH, but UNVOTE HIM AND VOTE SOMEONE ELSE well, guess what kids, Damdy went with D. Now look, I'm not saying Damdred has to spend 100% of his time paying attention to me. I get it, he has to pretend to have otehr reads too. But the first 2 hours after damdred comes back to thread post Blazinghand-post, he only makes these two posts: On April 22 2015 04:32 Damdred wrote: Maybe some of it was rehashed I can't remember honestly ^^. But keep talking about me its good to have a new focal point today On April 22 2015 05:10 Damdred wrote: I don't like that post especially that town read on wave hrm. The first one concerning people scumreading him for his notably scummy actions. The second one saying he doens't like trfel for the WoS townread. Eventually, he calls me out, 2 hours later-- and this is fine, maybe it took him 2 hours to read the thread somehow, even though he read other things, or no actually that makes no sense. Damdred makes no sense. He forgot he was scumreading me probably then had to make up for it with humor. On April 22 2015 06:32 Damdred wrote: Hey guys my name is bh, I'm moving so I won't be doing much don't lynch me give me time.-scum bh HEY GUYS I HAVE A NEW JOB WONT DO ANYTHING FOR AWHILE SO DONT LYNCH ME-BH this game Don't let the fact that he's humorous distract you from the fact that he's not actually focussed on me. The killer is here though: On April 22 2015 07:10 Damdred wrote: ##unvote ##Vote artanis Lets do this, if he's Scum we get a great lynch if he's not oh well statistics. But seriously his approach is scummy Ok so let'st ake a look at what Damdred has said about Art so far: he's said ARt is null and he's also said Art was joking. He called out WoS FOR CALLING OUT ART. Then he votes art for being lazy. Which I get. You maybe do that to pressure people for funsies. But tehre's no follow up on me. at this point, we're getting up to 24 hours into the game, and Damdred's posts are no longer caring about the fact that, as far as he claims, BH IS LITERALLY PLAYING BH SCUM META. Remember, Damdred CALLED this. he VOTED me for this. Sow hat's he up to? On April 22 2015 07:15 Damdred wrote: That's part of the bad thing about a sorta iml nobody wants to play unless they have to. As such I think arts actions are scummy and we should,make him play Oh, right, Arts isn't playing. What about your main scumread, Damdred? What about the guy who has literally made one post, a post saying he wasn't playing? There's no way Damdred is ACTUALLY having these thoughts. If he was spending his time thinking about people not playing, he'd bring me up again. Maybe nto a lot; buit at least once. And wait, let's look at that vote post again. Let's just TAKE A FUCKIN LOOK: On April 22 2015 07:10 Damdred wrote: Lets do this, if he's Scum we get a great lynch if he's not oh well statistics. But seriously his approach is scummy EMPHASIS MINE. Yes, I emphasised the whole post. READ IT. READ IT. He's obviously distancing himself from the outcome. Look at this! oh, if Art isn't scum, well, STATISTICS. Fuck, when I say statistics (when I RNG, that is), I at least back it up with REAL STATISTICS. Look at this? He doesn't even say Art is scum! He just says the approach is scummy and he's PREPARING for a townflip. Who votes like this? Who THINKS like this? Damdred is fabricating the whole read and it shows. his resposne to pressure is this: On April 22 2015 07:16 Damdred wrote: Lol rsoultin On April 22 2015 07:19 Damdred wrote: Sure it's a good idea. Would be fun for me not for town On April 22 2015 07:21 Damdred wrote: Though rs reasons are well documented why are you scumming me again trfel trfel unvotes damdred saying he was voting to "make a point" and asks if damdred gets it (note trfel: I'm watching you) and damdred says: On April 22 2015 07:23 Damdred wrote: Nope not really. On April 22 2015 07:25 Damdred wrote: Me not playing the game as I should be is meh but I go through spurts where I just shit around, granted I know I do it and it's a conscious decision not,to,change Barbados of my game. However art isn't the same type of creature Again, talking about absence, but no evidence about art's meta (remember how he had that about mine? Why is this case even on art and not me, for whom it's like, actually a case? WTF), just balthering. On April 22 2015 07:26 Damdred wrote: Apparently I want to go to Barbados however, that doesn't explain at all why if we lynch it should,be me not sure what's going on here. Wos scumreads Trfel for Trfel's scummy activities, and Damdred says: On April 22 2015 07:36 Damdred wrote: Waves getting town points here for good line of thinking which is again, meaningless. He makes a bunch of strange posts that don't really do anything about me. It's now 24 hours in, and Damdred is making posts like this: On April 22 2015 07:59 Damdred wrote: Hobestly, I hesitate to say this but the discussion and voting is a bit stagnant because we are trying to artificially lengthen the day and people don't feel compelled to play or goof off. So let's honestly try to lynch someone when me, the guy he meta-readed as scum, literally did the scum meta thing AND tried to lengthen the day. He says "people dont' feel compelled to play", how is he not thinking of me? Where's the read development? Why is he still on Artanis, even though votes don't matter? On April 22 2015 12:12 Damdred wrote: More of the later than the former I think, I don't like artie going about the game like he is though. He says he wants to Lynch art now, but there's no case, no follow-up. Look, Damdred is in town and makes a bunch of posts right around this time, probably like 10 over the course of 6 hours. That's fine and dandy, I'm not saying he has to be an activity monster or make tons of posts. But like, why isn't he pushing his read. Breshke even senses something is off and asks Damdred if he really actually wants to lynch Art. It's a reasonable question to ask because Damdred isn't acting like someone who actually wants to be responsible for a lynch, or someone with a scumread. Damdred is just putting his vote places. He's making "scumreads" and "townreads" but tehre's no UNDERLYING THOUGHT PROCESS. Look, there's a lot of things scum can fake. Scum and "make reads" and "vote" and whatever. Hell, scum can even be right about things, liek calling out lurkers, or pointing out my meta. That's fine. What scum can't easily fake, though, is a town thought process. Think about what you know about finding scum-- a lot of it has to do with things not lining up, with scum backtracking ideas or not making sense or diverging from how they act as town. They don't think the same things, so they ahve to fake it. Damdred doesn't actually thyink I'm scum or Art is scum. If he REALLY thought tehse things, he'd TALK about it. He wouldn't hang out bickering whether some dude is nulltown or nullscum when he's got a vote out on Art. He'd talk about Art. He wouldn't hang out balthering about people not playing because of time issues, when i'm literally doing that. Damdred, if he were town, would be ALL OVER me. His entire filter would be like that humorous post he made about me saying I need more time. Even if he did switch to Art, he'd actually switch. Heck, maybe he'd still lambast me a bit. And he'd press the art issue. He wouldn't be like, On April 22 2015 07:57 Damdred wrote: Ok wave you are up with rs now. Not lynching you When he could have a filter full of On April 22 2015 06:32 Damdred wrote: Hey guys my name is bh, I'm moving so I won't be doing much don't lynch me give me time.-scum bh HEY GUYS I HAVE A NEW JOB WONT DO ANYTHING FOR AWHILE SO DONT LYNCH ME-BH this game and LEGIT follow-up. He'd HAVE the read, not just SAY the read. Damdred is faking this, 100%. It's all artificial. He's scum. I've proven that. Let's kill him. ##Damdred oh btw I'm back | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
Let's take a look at how things start off. The game begins, and Damdred starts off with some typical troll posts that you see at the start of games: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24117712 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24117713 which are unmeaningful. A page or two later, Damdred starts complaining about votes being thrown around (link) and says he hates it. He doesn't explicitly state that he thinks it's a bad idea, but there you go. Then, he says he hasn't read the game, then, he votes me (link) for "not playing" when the game is at its very outset. This is almost the definition of a vote being "thrown around", something that damdred hates. Then, he says he thinks I'm scum (link) in response to someone saying he needs to play, even though he is supposedly town and admits taht he hasn't played ("I'll play don't worry"). So,w hat's Damdred even thinking here? Like, the people who come in later and want to policy me for having an excuse, sure, that's fine. The people who hate me for not posting for 24 hours, I get them. These are all actually reasonable reasons to scumread me. It is literally Classic Blazinghand play to use an IRL excuse to not play. (I would note, by the way, that I merely asked for more time, something easily attained in this game-- surely there's no problem there. This isn't a traditional deadline game). Regardless of their own skills, people can reasonably say that me posting after 18 hours saying "haha IRL reasonz duderz" is classic scum Blazinghand. And it is. But what's Damdred doing here? and then, look at this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24118610 Damdy posts a list post here, in which he states that I'm scum and he would vote for woS, and various other thoughts. Do we see any progression up to this? Does this actually do anything to help anyone? Of course not. Does he have questions for others, does he want to look at the game? No, he does not. This isn't Damdred pushing his ideas, this isn't Damdred trying to convince peopel to vote me even, it's just... filler. And he even calls it silly. That doesn't make it not scummy, that he calls it silly. He later comes, and uh, asks himself some questions (link). The fact that he asks himself the questions is like, minorly townie I guess since he's having fun. I don't think it really makes him town though. now he goes calling me scum based on me being "active elsewhere", (link) which seems pretty strange to me given that the only place I was posting (IIRC) was posting the D1 post to start the newbie game, which was actually before the start of Hapa's game. If I'm really active elsewhere, Damdred, why not bring exampels? Why not quote or link the posts I'm making elsewhere, or whatever? Now maybe it's against your ethics or whatever, but wait a second, clearly it's NOT since you mentioned it. So, another accusation with no oomph, more statements without real backup. Let's take a look at Damdy's post in more depths and let's see if he's actually contributing here, or just making noise. On April 21 2015 15:20 Damdred wrote: This part is a bit trickier, trfel as scum in my experience likes to be in the thick of the action trying to shape other peoples reads and causing subtle confusions. Very unlike bh scum game which is more behind the scenes, besides trfels last bit post who h was ok that puts him more towards the bottom of null rather than town. This is nothing. This is like, not even trying to scumhunt. First off, I don't see any actual mention of games. What experience? Maybe it's just a light meta read of trfel, but where did this come from? Even a mention of like "when I played with him in cell and he was scum there" or whatever (as I think Damdred says later in his filter about me) would make sense, but we don't see anything. Also worth noting here that this read isn't something you'd capitalize on. In fact, this entire paragraph is just scummier. "Towards the bottom of null" is like, the least read you can give someone that will most likely make me think you're scum. Here's what this looks like to me. Damdy wants to lynch trfel, maybe later, so he can't be seen actively defending trrfel without getting some heat. He doesn't want to lynch trfel yet though, he's hoping to get a wagon rolling on me in the first 24h. If he actively turns up the heat on trfel he'd have to commit to it, or talk about it, and genearlly as scum Damdy wants as little preassure as possible. so he makes this minor read on trfel. It "sets up" for his later scumread, but for now, bam, looks vague enough he won't get pressed on it, but gives him some cred later. town wouldn't bother wasting all this time talking about a "bottom of null" read. Definitey scum move. On April 21 2015 15:20 Damdred wrote: Breshke is one of the greatest forces of good in the thread amen. Has some of the highest activity good thoughts questions and interacting with everyone he can. Really good town atm. this could be an emptry quote and it would share the same amount of info. Damdred here isn't doing anything useful or providing insights, but the buddying with Breshke comes nonetheless. On April 21 2015 15:20 Damdred wrote: So, I don't even understand how anyone can let damdred get away with this paragraph. He's like, talking about the "uneveness" between how wave treats art and yamato? again, no evidence, other than he notes that wave has a different opinion on art and yam's alignment. You can't just call something strange and make it strange. What a vague read! Another classic scum move. Look at the strange uneveness that wave uses between arts is and Yamato for instance it caught my eye pretty fast. He is perfectly fine with art and gives art a town lean(later on) for the way he voted for him even if it was silly. Really strange reactions and slight jnconsitincies in how he is playing and interacting push him to this level. We can look at the followup to this to see more revelatory info about Damdred (and I thank rsoultin for being in thread to draw this out" On April 21 2015 15:24 rsoultin wrote: so you're not satisfied with his explanation at the bottom of the previous page? mind saying why not? On April 21 2015 15:26 Damdred wrote: How can you be satisfied with such a drastic over reaction? Arts is is a great player who sheeped onto what at that point in time a joke vote with a seemingly joke phrase and vote. And wave gives this as a response I don't buy it at all, its over explaining and not really saying anything On April 21 2015 15:29 rsoultin wrote: the overreaction is explained by not understanding the lynch mechanic xP and he wasn't the only one who didn't understand it daaaaamdy as for the artie vs. yama thing...i don't agree with the analysis but i don't think wrong = scum lol >< and can see how he arrived at the conclusion now that he's explained it do you have a specific example(s) of the bh meta you were referring to? On April 21 2015 15:29 Damdred wrote: Literally it might be one of the worst reasons to town read someone ever. Do scum never do pressure votes or joke votes and then not do much else? So, leaving off the reply about my meta (which is actually interesting), here's the Wave post they were talking about: On April 21 2015 13:03 WaveofShadow wrote: This is the absolute final time. I'm going to spell it out so it's absolutely crystal fucking clear, and if it's still not enough then just go ahead and lynch me for it or some shit because unless it's going somewhere, this is ridiculous already. Yamato gave some reason directly referencing something he said to me outside of the game that i don't remember, probably something he jokingly said to me at some point yesterday or the day before...? I don't consider that a reason because it has zero direct reference to anything that occurs within the confines of this game and is directly related to something yamato and I supposedly talked about. As that is the case, he would do it as either alignment since supposedly he said he would do it and therefore is completely alignment UNindicative. Artanis' reason I have no knowledge of and has no direct reference to me, so I naturally find it a little odder to bring something like that up---it is my opinion that that could draw more attention than something yamato can directly reference to something he and I supposedly did First off, I think we can all agree this is a pretty bullshit explanation. The more likely truth is that Waveofshadow wasn't paying attention or got confused or something, and is now embarassed about it, and invented an explanation. "Oh, Yamato referenced an out of game thing that I have since forgotten about, and that's the reason" is like, actually one of the worst explanations I have ever heard. The thign is, though, if WoS were scum and had the freedom to invent an explanation, he'd probably come up with a good one. the only reason he'd use such a lame explanation is if there's a kernel of truth to it. Maybe he and Yamato are lovers IRL, for example, and it was a whisper passed between them in the bedsheets. Who knows. The point is, the fact that woS is being so strikingly weird about his not-an-affair reason for not scumreading Yams is actually evidence WoS as town. No way scum comes up with something so strange. So, rsoultin rightly notes that the overexplaining is a town thing. Damdred calls it an overreaction and doesn't say why that's actually scummy. What's happening here is that Damdred isn't having a scumread follow a logic. Instead of observation + logic -> scumread, he's doing scumread + observation -> logic. In other words, he's using what happened in thread, plus his PLAN to scumread WoS (who is very bad at defending himself in general) and then CREATING FALSE LOGIC to populate his read. Basically, Damdred isn't finding the truth, he's stating a read in his head then working back from it to find an explanatino. That's why he says stuff like "it's the worst town read" or whatever without explaninig why, because there *is* no "why", not until Damdred creates it. Moving on, Damdred (link) reasonably brings up some of my past games, though in Aperture I don't think I mentioned anything IRL, I mostly just goofed around and rode my claim (and boy did I ride it!) to victory. Cell mafia I am pretty sure I pretended to be moving house. That was fucking awesome. hahaha. Man I'm awesome. In any case, just cause Damdy's right that I'm an amazing scum player doesn't mean that he's town. Scum isn't forbidden from saying true things; it happens. At this point, Damdred comes back after 13 hours, and in the past 13 hours, I have made this post: On April 22 2015 01:43 Blazinghand wrote: Hey guys, yesterday was my last day at my old job and today is my first day at my new one. Can't check tl mafia at ork during my first day on the job, sorry. I haven't read the thread and won't be able to until 00:00 GMT (+00:00)'£. Please extend day by 24 hours and dint lynch me Now let's say you're Damdred as town somehow. You think Blazinghand is pulling the classic "I am blazinghand and I alone out of all TL Mafia players have the manliness to lie about IRL things". You fucking CALL it, youv ote him, then you come back to the thread and he has made one SOLITARY post int he first like 18 hours of the game, and it's LITERALLY AN IRL EXCUSE. What's your response? Do you: A) Call BH scum and quote his single post B) Call BH scum and note that he played just as you acted. C) Start asking other players why they're accepted BH's bad excuses, and call him scum. or... D) make some vague noises at BH, but UNVOTE HIM AND VOTE SOMEONE ELSE well, guess what kids, Damdy went with D. Now look, I'm not saying Damdred has to spend 100% of his time paying attention to me. I get it, he has to pretend to have otehr reads too. But the first 2 hours after damdred comes back to thread post Blazinghand-post, he only makes these two posts: On April 22 2015 04:32 Damdred wrote: Maybe some of it was rehashed I can't remember honestly ^^. But keep talking about me its good to have a new focal point today On April 22 2015 05:10 Damdred wrote: I don't like that post especially that town read on wave hrm. The first one concerning people scumreading him for his notably scummy actions. The second one saying he doens't like trfel for the WoS townread. Eventually, he calls me out, 2 hours later-- and this is fine, maybe it took him 2 hours to read the thread somehow, even though he read other things, or no actually that makes no sense. Damdred makes no sense. He forgot he was scumreading me probably then had to make up for it with humor. On April 22 2015 06:32 Damdred wrote: Hey guys my name is bh, I'm moving so I won't be doing much don't lynch me give me time.-scum bh HEY GUYS I HAVE A NEW JOB WONT DO ANYTHING FOR AWHILE SO DONT LYNCH ME-BH this game Don't let the fact that he's humorous distract you from the fact that he's not actually focussed on me. The killer is here though: On April 22 2015 07:10 Damdred wrote: ##unvote ##Vote artanis Lets do this, if he's Scum we get a great lynch if he's not oh well statistics. But seriously his approach is scummy Ok so let'st ake a look at what Damdred has said about Art so far: he's said ARt is null and he's also said Art was joking. He called out WoS FOR CALLING OUT ART. Then he votes art for being lazy. Which I get. You maybe do that to pressure people for funsies. But tehre's no follow up on me. at this point, we're getting up to 24 hours into the game, and Damdred's posts are no longer caring about the fact that, as far as he claims, BH IS LITERALLY PLAYING BH SCUM META. Remember, Damdred CALLED this. he VOTED me for this. Sow hat's he up to? On April 22 2015 07:15 Damdred wrote: That's part of the bad thing about a sorta iml nobody wants to play unless they have to. As such I think arts actions are scummy and we should,make him play Oh, right, Arts isn't playing. What about your main scumread, Damdred? What about the guy who has literally made one post, a post saying he wasn't playing? There's no way Damdred is ACTUALLY having these thoughts. If he was spending his time thinking about people not playing, he'd bring me up again. Maybe nto a lot; buit at least once. And wait, let's look at that vote post again. Let's just TAKE A FUCKIN LOOK: On April 22 2015 07:10 Damdred wrote: Lets do this, if he's Scum we get a great lynch if he's not oh well statistics. But seriously his approach is scummy EMPHASIS MINE. Yes, I emphasised the whole post. READ IT. READ IT. He's obviously distancing himself from the outcome. Look at this! oh, if Art isn't scum, well, STATISTICS. Fuck, when I say statistics (when I RNG, that is), I at least back it up with REAL STATISTICS. Look at this? He doesn't even say Art is scum! He just says the approach is scummy and he's PREPARING for a townflip. Who votes like this? Who THINKS like this? Damdred is fabricating the whole read and it shows. his resposne to pressure is this: On April 22 2015 07:16 Damdred wrote: Lol rsoultin On April 22 2015 07:19 Damdred wrote: Sure it's a good idea. Would be fun for me not for town On April 22 2015 07:21 Damdred wrote: Though rs reasons are well documented why are you scumming me again trfel trfel unvotes damdred saying he was voting to "make a point" and asks if damdred gets it (note trfel: I'm watching you) and damdred says: On April 22 2015 07:23 Damdred wrote: Nope not really. On April 22 2015 07:25 Damdred wrote: Me not playing the game as I should be is meh but I go through spurts where I just shit around, granted I know I do it and it's a conscious decision not,to,change Barbados of my game. However art isn't the same type of creature Again, talking about absence, but no evidence about art's meta (remember how he had that about mine? Why is this case even on art and not me, for whom it's like, actually a case? WTF), just balthering. On April 22 2015 07:26 Damdred wrote: Apparently I want to go to Barbados however, that doesn't explain at all why if we lynch it should,be me not sure what's going on here. Wos scumreads Trfel for Trfel's scummy activities, and Damdred says: On April 22 2015 07:36 Damdred wrote: Waves getting town points here for good line of thinking which is again, meaningless. He makes a bunch of strange posts that don't really do anything about me. It's now 24 hours in, and Damdred is making posts like this: On April 22 2015 07:59 Damdred wrote: Hobestly, I hesitate to say this but the discussion and voting is a bit stagnant because we are trying to artificially lengthen the day and people don't feel compelled to play or goof off. So let's honestly try to lynch someone when me, the guy he meta-readed as scum, literally did the scum meta thing AND tried to lengthen the day. He says "people dont' feel compelled to play", how is he not thinking of me? Where's the read development? Why is he still on Artanis, even though votes don't matter? On April 22 2015 12:12 Damdred wrote: More of the later than the former I think, I don't like artie going about the game like he is though. He says he wants to Lynch art now, but there's no case, no follow-up. Look, Damdred is in town and makes a bunch of posts right around this time, probably like 10 over the course of 6 hours. That's fine and dandy, I'm not saying he has to be an activity monster or make tons of posts. But like, why isn't he pushing his read. Breshke even senses something is off and asks Damdred if he really actually wants to lynch Art. It's a reasonable question to ask because Damdred isn't acting like someone who actually wants to be responsible for a lynch, or someone with a scumread. Damdred is just putting his vote places. He's making "scumreads" and "townreads" but tehre's no UNDERLYING THOUGHT PROCESS. Look, there's a lot of things scum can fake. Scum and "make reads" and "vote" and whatever. Hell, scum can even be right about things, liek calling out lurkers, or pointing out my meta. That's fine. What scum can't easily fake, though, is a town thought process. Think about what you know about finding scum-- a lot of it has to do with things not lining up, with scum backtracking ideas or not making sense or diverging from how they act as town. They don't think the same things, so they ahve to fake it. Damdred doesn't actually thyink I'm scum or Art is scum. If he REALLY thought tehse things, he'd TALK about it. He wouldn't hang out bickering whether some dude is nulltown or nullscum when he's got a vote out on Art. He'd talk about Art. He wouldn't hang out balthering about people not playing because of time issues, when i'm literally doing that. Damdred, if he were town, would be ALL OVER me. His entire filter would be like that humorous post he made about me saying I need more time. Even if he did switch to Art, he'd actually switch. Heck, maybe he'd still lambast me a bit. And he'd press the art issue. He wouldn't be like, On April 22 2015 07:57 Damdred wrote: Ok wave you are up with rs now. Not lynching you When he could have a filter full of On April 22 2015 06:32 Damdred wrote: Hey guys my name is bh, I'm moving so I won't be doing much don't lynch me give me time.-scum bh HEY GUYS I HAVE A NEW JOB WONT DO ANYTHING FOR AWHILE SO DONT LYNCH ME-BH this game and LEGIT follow-up. He'd HAVE the read, not just SAY the read. Damdred is faking this, 100%. It's all artificial. He's scum. I've proven that. Let's kill him. ##Damdred oh btw I'm back, BITCHES EBWOP | ||
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On April 22 2015 13:11 rsoultin wrote: can you please tldr that monster for when i return, bh, and while you're at it explain why no rng lynch this game and where your usual method of using quotes went? i'm not your typical big post = town sorta girl other reads would be good, too nite -_- there's one at the bottom, but if you who are "asleep" since this post aren't gonna take time to read a post I spent all that time working on, then that only reflects poorly on you and does not oblige me to add a second summary to my post | ||
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On April 22 2015 15:04 rsoultin wrote: yes it's shitty and reactionary and is why it means nothing -_- or probably means nothing, but i have seen it done before so blah to that lol well whoopdidoo you're wrong on at least one of us (and most of the game disagrees with you on me) so it doesn't damn well matter if two people you're not townreading are townreading each other, however lightly. a real scumread would be nice, since you're now backpedaling...why the fuck are you softing scum on to me if you've got literally nothing but that bs? meh -_- i don't like bh's wall >< he can die a couple of the points had a touch of validity to them...mainly the shift from bh to artie on a whim and playing with the 24 hr mark...but it's mostly narrative and he's provided no other reads, which seems to me like he's hoping to ride out the omg look at how many pretty words that was! that instead of giving other reads he just complains i asked for something more concise doesn't make me feel any better about it either ^^ see, i'm capable of rationality and won't just vote you even though you not having scumreads is a scumtell of yours, breshke, and not a scumtell for me i've also expressed suspicion of artanis and damdred...i want to reread yamato since so many people have problems with him and that's mostly a toneread for me and again not filter-diving tonight so yeah so, do you think damdred is town or scum? you have successfully described my case, but you have not actually given your thoughts in response to it in a full way. I get it, you want to talk about me, but I'm literally ignoring things other than scum damdred right now. I don't care whether or not you care about my other reads. What are you gonna do, vote me? you already did that. You're clearly not asleep. You've read my case. You say the problem with it is that it's a "narrative", as though that means something. Come on rsoultin. Get your head in the game. What do you think of Damdred? You claim you've expressed suspicion of Damdred, but you don't say what the read is on Damdred now. What do you think of Damdred's mindset? What do you think of damdred's play in general? I'm basically 100% right so I know you'r dodging here stop dodging, or at least own the dodge. I refuse to talk about other things. | ||
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On April 22 2015 15:12 Breshke wrote: Cool im not backpedeling on you im just giving you pace because if I keep pushing on you and you keep reacting the same way what information do i get? You can take as many digs and missuse my meta as you want. 9 Player games with 2 scum are totally different to 13 players and large games. I don't care I just got a call saying i got the job i applied for the other week so im extremely happy right now and you should be as well rsoul. I like your bh stuff. Like even if i really like his wall post i still wouldnt call him town because one post calling a majority of someones post scummy isn't enough. I also didn't like his reaction to you. it's fine if you scumread me as long as you scumread Damdred more and lynch him first. When he flips scum you can apologise to me for doubting me so what do you think of the various inconsistencies in Damdred's thought process that I've pointed out? After all, you sheeped the Damdred Wagon based on the Damdred Reasoning, and now that I've poitned out that Damdred's thought process doesn't make sense, you who had a real version (presumably) of said thought process should find it very interesting. I know you were townreading Damdred, but had some doubts that were cleared up by him. How do you feel now, in light of this new well-presented evidence? | ||
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On April 22 2015 15:18 rsoultin wrote: i'm capable of talking -_- i'm just not in a good place to try to reevaluate anything right now obviously i have scumreads, or at least scumleans, so asking me again is not helpful when i just talked about it in the post you quoted that from ^^ and no i don't care if self-meta is bad, considering it doesn't even apply in this case as for you, bh, if i was applying your philosophy i'd simply refuse to talk to you about damdred your post is overblown. i don't like it. you haven't commented on anything else, and literally everything you actually brought up in that case has been said before. frankly, it's like a giant steaming turd of conjecture and unoriginality ^^ damdy i started to like later in the day, then he started playing with the deadline and i didn't like that. if y'all want more you're gonna have to wait your very unusual resistance to talking about Damdred who i have demonstrated to have a scum mindset is noted. Thanks for your time :D | ||
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On April 22 2015 15:23 rsoultin wrote: point out a single original thing in that wall bh, and if you can, i will apologize to you and talk to you about damdy till the cows come home, so long as you're willing to discuss like literally anything else as well ^^ So, since bits and pieces of it have been mentioned by others, me gathering it in one place is so offensive to your sensibilities that you refuse to discuss it? Fine, pretend it's not a post and I'm just summarizing thread sentiment, if that's what it takes for you to talk about the best case. I don't care whether or not it's framed as whatever. I don't care what your opinion is of me. I 100% promise that I will talk about other things, like why Yamato77 hasn't responded to the case, for example, but the fact of the matter is, you have a responsibility as a lesser player to follow my lead on this, or, failing that, respond to my case in a way that demonstrates WHY you disagree with the points. You can't just say "oh yeah, it's a narrative, and narratives are bad" or something. That's not even, like, an objection, man. Damdred's thought process _does not make sense_. The fact that you were unwilling to find the summary at the bottom initially doesn't give you a right to have a zealous vendetta against talking to the best player in the game about the best case in the game. Get it together | ||
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And yes, I was pointing out how most of what Damdred said was scummy, but MOST OF WHAT DAMDRED SAID WAS SCUMMY. Like, legit the dude is scum. Also, I'm not saying that literally every post he makes pushes a scum agenda. I'm noting how they serve his agenda, and hwo they don't link together into a town mindset. I also concede some stuff that DOES link together and is right. In fact, I explicitly state scum CAN be right, as his meta analysis of my willinginess to use IRL stuff as scum is literally correct. But that doesn't change the fact that if you look, Damdred's thoughts DO NOT follow each other. | ||
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Everyone who checks thet hread, let me know what you think of Damdred's thought process. if I come back to find myself dead, you guys can all apologise to me in the post game | ||
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On April 22 2015 15:55 yamato77 wrote: I'll read everything in the last few pages later in the mean time, I'd rather relax more. >:[ | ||
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If I'm alive when I get home I'll save us all. Otherwise, should I die for your ignorance, I will view the departure with as much relief as disgust. | ||
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I hope you're scum. I'd still respect you if that's the case. In fact, if you're scum, this has been some masterful play. The fact that you're giving some kind of meta read on my "usefulness" or something (note: without evidence, of course; nobody who incorrectly meta reads me as scum ever provides evidence, they just wave hands) shows your incompetence/scumminess. The fact that people are going to lynch me instead of just waiting another 72 hours shows that people have forgotten that cases are like, a thing. Like, legit, Damdred's thought process isn't real. There's definitely something wrong with it. You could easily read his filter, or my case, which is NOT a monstrosity, it's not even in the top 10 longest cases I've written (I've hit then 100,000 character limit before on single posts I think) and see for yourself. Let me live another 24 hours, delay the majority, and I'll save this town like I do all towns I play in. Kill me and reap the consequences. This is the only defense I will offer. I have shit to do today. Any town player who's on me who won't just wait until this evening for me to do more is making a terrible mistake. I'm hoping to get lynched, a little bit, so I can lord this all over you. I'm hoping even more that I get lynched, and Damdred does turn out to be scum. Then you'll never play a game without me mentioning the time you lynched me and ended the day rather than listening to what I had to say about the scum player. So come on, do it. | ||
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wtf it's a post by post analysis, of course it's "narrative", I'm literally narrating what the dude did, how is that even an objection to it. that's like saying "it's a case" therefore it's bad | ||
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On April 23 2015 00:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote: It means you're just pointing out things and creating a story behind why it makes him scum when it's just as possible to create a story behind it from a town perspective. so whenever anyone says "narrative", they're just saying I'm wrong without explaining why or using specifics. kk | ||
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May you be cursed! Let my blood taint your win! Let your victory taste as ashes in your mouth! May you never forget the foolishness of your day 1 mislynch! May your sleep be disturbed by the dreams of your misplay! Never forget the rage of Blazinghand! | ||
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Although it didn't happen to work in my favor this game, I will not change this policy. I have it for the same reason the US doesn't negotiate with terrorists-- this policy prevents promotion of bad behavior. I will not reward people for trying to coerce me, no matter what. I will only do my best to agitate them in response. Also, as you figured out and used effectively later in this game, there was no time pressure to lynch me. All joking and fake raging aside, lynching me would be a fine decision with a static deadline but was actually a super terrible decision with the dynamic deadline. when it looked for a while like you guys were not gonna lynch obvscums yamato and wos I was pretty mad. In other words, I regret nothing, I played great, and was only mislynched because other players are bad. | ||
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On May 04 2015 10:39 Damdred wrote: So great you only pushed the games blue... Anyway Gg all. Read obs qt boyo | ||
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On May 05 2015 06:09 Palmar wrote: Yeah I think this lynch mechanic is incredibly town favored To clarify: Yamato is lazy scum, but none of the townies are mass posters either. How difficult do you guys think it'd be to win as mafia with mass posters like marv jat and hf and these unlimited days. Just keeping up would be impossible. IML is generally town-favored and this segmented IML is actually sliiiiightly more town favored because it adds a bit of needed structure to IML. Although I was raging about the incompetence of the non-Palmar parts of town in the Obs QT, it really didn't matter-- given the ability to indefinitely extend the day and the deadline to add enough structure that people didn't just get totally lost, this town was fine. They cleverly extended the day until they caught the scum, which is exactly what they should do. FWIW I don't think WoS or Yam played amazing scumgames, but as Palm said this wasn't exactly a town stacked with loud people or anything. This was a great experiment in the lynch mechanic, and thanks Hapa for trying this out! | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:08 Hapahauli wrote: What's the significant difference between this and regular IML? I'm somewhat on the boat with BlazingHand here - it provides town a bit of extra structure (and therefore a slight advantage), but no major improvements. The extra structure might make town more comfortable delaying for more information, or keep people together (and organized enough to keep talking about things) rather than allowing the game to stagnate if the day goes for 120 hours or something | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:14 Palmar wrote: Maybe you should've made case on mafia instead of doc BH. That would've helped. Although I did not vote you. But that was mostly out of indifference. I actually managed to get through this game without reading a single post by you. That's pretty good I think! that was a response to rsoultin. I spare you in all my rages because you played well. When I came back to thread I had basically caught yam and wos, but I was dead because many town players are super awful. | ||
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even if only for my smiley being the most recent post in thread for 24h | ||
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On May 05 2015 07:19 rsoultin wrote: -giggles- the bait worked! -ish going to plynch bh every game- <3 Acting stupid then laughing and saying the bait worked is pretty slick. I admit: I just got trolled. | ||
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