Mafia Mini Mafia2: another miniature game of mafia

Why Yamato is Mafia:

I think this case is actually quite simple to make, but I will give it some length and explanation for those who prefer that sort of thing. For those who aren't interested, I will save you the time and tell you the #1 point now: Yamato hard defends GB because DR is "mafia chainsaw defending him". He then no longer likes the DR wagon and DR flips town, yet Yamato keeps defending GB. The premise of his read had been falsified entirely, but he kept pushing GB's defense.

Now for the lengthy version:

DreadReturn

Smurf = -2 townpoints

We're not starting off well here.

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On April 08 2015 04:55 DreadReturn wrote:
I think Palmer's interpretation of GB's early post is pretty weak.
Take the post that Palmer convinces himself with:

On April 07 2015 19:39 Palmar wrote:

On April 07 2015 19:33 Vivax wrote:

On April 07 2015 19:29 Palmar wrote:

On April 07 2015 19:11 Vivax wrote:
Damdred pretty hard on GB with his reasoning. Not sure if legit, he chose the worst possible explanation for GB complaining about HF vs Obi.

As if HF asking for an Obi wambulance was oh so informative lol.

The point is not whether or not what they were doing was productive. The question is whether GB was doing anything useful at all.

Define useful in a wambulance and random gif setting.

Okay clearly you're being affected by a small head syndrome.

HF and Obi were having a shitfest. I'm not arguing that. When this happens there are a few options open to a player not involved. Some of them are useful, some are useless. Here's a few options GB could have taken.

GB could have:

Ignored it and walked away
Tried to put a stop to it
Tried to change the subject to something more entertaining or useful
Joined in on the fun
Idly complained about it without trying to stop it or change the subject
Tried to glean some information from it

You'll notice that he did actually take one of the options. The problem I have is that is by fare the worst option available. By his own admission he wasn't trying to stop them, so what was he trying to achieve? He wasn't being funny, he wasn't being sociable, he wasn't trying to bring up a new subject, he wasn't scumhunting or trying to poke people further.

Why did GB post?

Two points here:

"HF and Obi were having a shitfest" - That's not right. They exchanged maybe 5 small one liners and a picture between themselves. It's a very mild scuffle / banter. If GB could be accused of "stopping" anything, it's mild banter.

"The problem I have is that is by far the worst option available" - Palmer isn't actually showing why GB is scum with this. How does this make him scum? He points out things that GB could have done, and then concludes that by act of omission GB must be scum. How? There's a huge logical gap there.

This type of weak reasoning could easily be applied to anyone else on those pages, and again, we are talking about day 1 early game banter here.

Palmer's analysis is weak because he is either exaggerating or misconstruing what GB said and did, and is suggesting GB is scum without actually giving a reason why he is scum.

Misses the fucking point. ANY CASE MADE at that point is going to be extremely speculative, especially as the game continues on and more information comes into the thread. This is a weak defense of GB and also an incredibly easy post to make as mafia.

What it fails to realize is this:

GB's post where he strawmans Palmar is exactly the sort of thing a mafia would do in that situation: use fallacy to dumb down the argument and cause the thread to lose clarity.

Palmar coming out of the gate firing is actually a pretty strong towntell, especially if he follows his read up later on. I have yet to see him do that but he may yet be the townie we all want him to be.

As someone who is obviously not a mafia newbie, this player SHOULD know better than to attack Palmar for this sort of thing at this stage in the game. MOST people do not have the history to know that Palmar is actually a fucking beast when he wants to be and thus will only know Trollmar. People that only know Trollmar should even townread Palmar for this sort of thing. It doesn't make any sense for someone to attack him.

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Notably, his post on Palmar FAILS TO COMMENT ON HIS ALIGNMENT. He knocks me for attacking GB (as he did Palmar) yet he essentially did the same thing in GB's defense.

Why is DreadReturn so concerned with defending GB, and not with providing actual scumreads? It is a common mafia tactic to defend a scummy-looking townie that people want to lynch in an effort to appear active and to derail town's efforts at consolidating on lynches. Based on this, it isn't difficult at all to see mafia motivation in DR's posting.

Plus, he's a fucking smurf.

Here we get the basis of the wagon that was pushed onto DR. The premise is that DR is unjustly defending GB because GB was spewing scummy shit and the interactions with Palmar were crap thus he is mafia. To simplify the first point GB does scummy shit, DR defends GB for doing scummy shit, DR = mafia and GB = ? Read below for the answer boys!

GlowingBear

THE MOMENT OF TRUTH

WHAT DO I NOW THINK ABOUT GB?!?!?

I'll skip over to the posts I have yet to comment on.

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Apparently he actually believes the idea that Palmar is mafia. Essentially alignment null, but worth noting.

He also soulreads HF town for the game thing, even though Obi literally pointed out that HF has done this shit as mafia before. Could just be a really bad player.

He is one of the most active players, and while I disagree with his reads and how he approaches the game, it's difficult to believe that GB is actually mafia here. He is most likely similar to Eden in that they say horrible and bad things all the time but are actually just town. So yeah.

Plus, it makes more sense if he's town given that mafia-DR is chainsaw defending him. Will switch my vote posthaste.

List Thingy For People Too Dumb To Read

Because there are many of you and I don't discriminate

ritoky
rsoul
Koshi
gb
eden
Palmar
damdred?
obi
HF
Onegu
Vivax
DreadReturn

##Unvote
##Vote: DreadReturn

GB = Town???? Wait so GB did a bunch of scummy shit, has reads you think are terrible, is shit fighting someone in the thread, and you think he is town? Why the hell is that the case? "He actually believes Palmar is mafia" Wifom. "He soulreads HF" plz. "Activity" I am the only person on these forums who actively uses D1 activity as a policy, so nope not that either.

Then we arrive at the real reason he is reading GB town here: "Plus, it makes more sense if he's town given that mafia-DR is chainsaw defending him. Will switch my vote posthaste."

He is reading GB town because he thinks DR is mafia and is chainsaw defending GB. To break this down in simple terms for you: GB does scummy shit, DR defends scummy looking GB, DR is mafia, Is DR hard defending? If not, then chainsaw town. That is the entire basis of his GB read right now.

I also want you to note, as a lesser point that is recurring over the course of the game. Yamato's top town reads are always people who almost unanimously agree with his reads. I will come back to that later if I find it more relevant than this current point.

So what happened to this GB linked to DR being mafia read:

On April 09 2015 02:14 yamato77 wrote:
We're lynching DreadReturn, bar none.

Still good.

On April 09 2015 04:38 yamato77 wrote:
No, we're still lynching DreadReturn.

Still good.

On April 09 2015 10:50 yamato77 wrote:
HF/Obi, you guys arguing isn't going to get the other one lynched, especially not today.

I'm fine with GB/DR wagons so you need to choose from those two and vote between them.

Now we're starting to get a little whacky here, it is going off the rails boys.

On April 09 2015 11:21 yamato77 wrote:
Alright we're not lynching GB, scummy fucks on that lynch

Anyone who thinks I'm town needs to vote DR

The course has been corrected.

(read full quote of following)

On April 09 2015 12:08 yamato77 wrote:

Show nested quote +

that's exactly who we shouldn't YOLO onto

Here is where I will actually begin commenting again. Yamato has now come to the conclusion he wants off the DR wagon and it is time to start the shennanie. Let's go back to the premise of his GB read: GB = slightly town because mafia DR is chainsaw defending GB. This is his read. He has now invalidated the premise of his read by deciding he doesn't believe that DR is mafia or at least not mafia enough to lynch today. Obi suggests a switch onto GB as do a couple others and Yamato shoots it down. Why? His read only works if DR is mafia. DR is not mafia in his mind anymore, so why is he even defending GB?

On April 09 2015 12:17 yamato77 wrote:
We ARE NOT lynching Palmar.

The lynch is now between DR and Vivax, since both of them are around to show their alignment.

EVERYONE follows me when I make my choice.

He is eliminating GB's name from the conversation of who is even potentially switchable. This is absolutely clear he is mafia preserving his partner by taking his name out of the conversation for potential shennanie and trying to steer it somewhere else. (this also makes him less likely mafia with vivax, but save that for another time).

Just to review this process so far if you're not seeing how utterly mafia it is: GB does scummy shit -> DR defends GB -> yamato reads DR mafia -> yamato thinks mafia DR chainsaw defending town GB -> yamato no longer thinks DR is the lynch/mafia -> yamato continues to defend GB as town.

When you falsify the entire premise of your read and then continue to push the conclusion it means that in all likelihood you have additional information that made you arrive at that conclusion. That additional information in this case is that GB and yamato are mafia together.

After that yamato shit fights with HF for the night, kills HF to swag on him most likely, then just vanishes for the majority of the following phase.

Here is the swag post:

On April 10 2015 13:09 yamato77 wrote:
YES HF IS DEAD

I CAN ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME NOW

And here is the only mention of GB in yamato's filter for the day that GB gets lynched (it is right at the start of the day):

On April 10 2015 13:15 yamato77 wrote:
Vivax is easily the best lynch.

Palmar isn't scum tho.

GB probably is.

After this he says literally nothing about GB the entire phase when GB get's lynched. His read has been altered now after hard defending him from a shennanie to "probably scum" for no justified reason. And even though he is "probably scum" he never mentions him again the entirety of day 2 and only mentions vivax as scum that should be lynched. LITERALLY 0 MENTION OF SOMEONE YOU HAVE AS PROBABLY SCUM???????? Lynch him, Lynch him with fire.

Remember them reads early on?

On April 14 2015 00:56 yamato77 wrote:
I think it's Koshi/Ritoky.

Now that neither 1 agrees with you at this point they are mafia eh? Funny how things come full circle.

Some side points to supplement this big point are:

1) He was shit fighting with HF and I sincerely don't think he believed a single word of what he was fighting with HF about. It read as fighting for the sake of fighting.

2) He has been fighting with someone all game long, whether it be HF or Vivax or someone else, he is always shit fighting someone over something minute.

3) Activity and content dropoff after HF is out of the game. I think this points to him swag killing HF. Once the person he was swagging on in thread is gone he is suddenly uninterested in the game.

Simply put, yamato was hard defending confirmed mafia for an invalid reason, he was shit fighting with HF over something he didn't seem to believe in, his activity dropped off after HF was removed from the game, he has been non-stop combative with someone, and completely ignored confirmed mafia on the day of his lynch choosing instead to talk only about vivax. Yamato is mafia, lynch him 99 times straight, and on the hundredth kick him in the nuts then lynch him.

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