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On March 03 2015 17:22 geript wrote: Can Epiphany please tell me more about how I'm trying to steer conversation away from who needs to die? I Could use another good laugh.
I line your point on HtS. That's a really interesting read. Wrong. But interesting.
Stop misquoting.
The problem is ALL you're talking about is who needs to die, not how that decision gets made, and the latter is very relevant in this lynch set-up.
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On March 03 2015 17:24 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 17:20 AT.Epiphany wrote:On March 03 2015 17:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:AT.Epiphany instead of throwing in the newbie card how about you explain how this (1) This is a nitpick statement (in line with this first post) that makes no attempt to harness information from Tubesock. (2) AT.Epiphany makes no attempt to call TS town or scum (yet calls out TS for not venturing a self-justified read) is wrong instead? because that's what you are arguing for without saying why Mocsta is wrong here. First off, I'm not throwing the newbie card, literally Mocsta's entire post is about making fun of me being a newbie in his faux 'translation', so stop faking that accusation. Secondly, I'm not sure if he's scum or not, (which is why I didn't accuse him) but it does seem strange to me argue that Slam is scum because he is coherent. If he's capable of being coherent, there's no reason why he wouldn't be so as town and moreover what I objected to was that the only reasoning tubesock provided was "kochi said so this some other game" which is a very strange reason. Lets talk some more. It appears you are pouncing on the logic of others without considering your read on either player?? Tell me 2 tentative things: (1) Read on koshi (2) Read on Slam I am not looking for concrete justification. A lean will do.
Ok the read on Slam is easier, and my read on him is that he's Town. His post on the lynching method is accurate and correctly outlines what town ought to be doing. He's working towards a plan that has been entirely derailed by this shitstorm.
The read on Koshi's much tougher because he's said/done very little and I don't know him well enough to be able to interpret that very well. I'm leaning towards Townie, partly because he strongly wants to lynch vigilante shooters who get it wrong and partly because I don't think he'd be that open about non-participating if he was Mafia. I know WIFOM, but no one really buys WIFOM defenses and he's put himself right in front of the spotlight.
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On March 03 2015 17:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 17:28 AT.Epiphany wrote: The problem is ALL you're talking about is who needs to die, not how that decision gets made, and the latter is very relevant in this lynch set-up. No it's not. All we need to talk about is who needs to die, the "how" is already decided.
What was decided by the way?
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On March 03 2015 17:37 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 17:31 AT.Epiphany wrote:On March 03 2015 17:24 Mocsta wrote:On March 03 2015 17:20 AT.Epiphany wrote:On March 03 2015 17:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:AT.Epiphany instead of throwing in the newbie card how about you explain how this (1) This is a nitpick statement (in line with this first post) that makes no attempt to harness information from Tubesock. (2) AT.Epiphany makes no attempt to call TS town or scum (yet calls out TS for not venturing a self-justified read) is wrong instead? because that's what you are arguing for without saying why Mocsta is wrong here. First off, I'm not throwing the newbie card, literally Mocsta's entire post is about making fun of me being a newbie in his faux 'translation', so stop faking that accusation. Secondly, I'm not sure if he's scum or not, (which is why I didn't accuse him) but it does seem strange to me argue that Slam is scum because he is coherent. If he's capable of being coherent, there's no reason why he wouldn't be so as town and moreover what I objected to was that the only reasoning tubesock provided was "kochi said so this some other game" which is a very strange reason. Lets talk some more. It appears you are pouncing on the logic of others without considering your read on either player?? Tell me 2 tentative things: (1) Read on koshi (2) Read on Slam I am not looking for concrete justification. A lean will do. Ok the read on Slam is easier, and my read on him is that he's Town. His post on the lynching method is accurate and correctly outlines what town ought to be doing. He's working towards a plan that has been entirely derailed by this shitstorm. The read on Koshi's much tougher because he's said/done very little and I don't know him well enough to be able to interpret that very well. I'm leaning towards Townie, partly because he strongly wants to lynch vigilante shooters who get it wrong and partly because I don't think he'd be that open about non-participating if he was Mafia. I know WIFOM, but no one really buys WIFOM defenses and he's put himself right in front of the spotlight. i'm going to drop you for now basis (1) I don't find this conversation (or Geripts productive) Seems at the moment that this is more philosphical debates on how to play mafia vs. actaul mafia interference (2) If you did find Slam + Koshi town. it would be natural to assume people attacking them are not. (3) BH is in this game Continuing the chatI have to take a dump. But next on my list is Breche + Sepultura. THoughts?
I lean towards townreading Breske because again right from the start he's proposing a plan that is constructive and is the right decision for town in this phase. I realize this is moving again towards this 'philosophical' issue of how to pick a lynch, but this is the least chaotic, most well-defined of making the decision, so I'm very likely to townread the people who initially pushed this idea.
Sepulchre I mostly scumread for the converse reason. He's the first to try and consciously steer this discussion away from plans (in a set-up where there is a great deal of point to at least to discussing a plan). Also, I'm slightly suspicious of just how many people he points a finger at, without town-reading anyone. I also don't understand his critique of the fact that 'the plan' seems to be accepted (it was being favourably at the time he posted). That's not a very confident read though and it's entirely possible that he really does believe all the planning is a waste of time and somebody will randomly shoot anyway.
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On March 03 2015 17:49 Mocsta wrote:I like Sepulchre after a second read. To the point. Sort of witty. Even prompted me to read into OWS, of which I like the direction. Fully agree with the assessment of: Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 08:21 ObiWanShinobi wrote:On March 03 2015 08:19 your mom wrote:On March 03 2015 08:12 Half the Sky wrote:On March 03 2015 08:08 Fecalfeast wrote: Well, are you going to make a conclusion on that or just ping me for no reason? That was the first impression I got just reading that. Impulse. Thinking through it harder I'm inclined to say you're town, because if I recall right, you don't seem to be someone who is too enthusiastic or posts a whole lot when he's town. This looks like you're just making a read up under pressure to deliver, expect me to be particularly suspicious of you cause of that inconclusive post. Do you really think that post alone was enough to get a townread on FF? Smells like TMI. What exactly are you expecting ftr? A bunch of people pressured her to draw a conclusion so would you just expect her to say nothing? Scum points for you. This is how I would write a post as scum. Its the whole passive aggressive feel YET lack of implication in the post. Like a chihuahua hiding behind a fence. barking through a megaphone.
And I agree, I liked his post the moment I read it because he wrote one detailed post, very well. It just indicates he's probably good, but that's not more likely to make me townread him. It's well written and witty, but I'm still leaning scum.
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On March 03 2015 18:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 18:43 Mocsta wrote: Anyways, I was more alluding hes either faking dubm (a la BH) or is the typical fallacious status quo. I judged a lot of the interactions as philosophical warring and treat him as #2 (fallacious) currently. Thus, my current expectation for him is to act in the way you deem unfit for perfect play.
I am not sure i buy this explanation. So your conclusion (yes, in the post where you originally posted your comment i talked about it WAS a conclusion of yours) is that he, as town, for some reason should scumread people who scumread his town reads. I have absolutely no idea how you end up on this conclusion because it is a narrative YOU invented for him and nothing in his play implicates he should think this way.
I agree with what you write, though I don't really have any conclusion coming out of it.
I don't think that disagreeing with me about somebody being town makes them suspicious in my eyes.
By the way, I didn't even see that as a "narrative he invented for me", but simply as what was natural to his thought process, I might have disagreed with him about it on another day, but I've had enough hostility on me without quibbling with him about what approach is natural.
He posted that under 'basis' so I took that to be his thought process about whom he tends to suspect rather than him creating a narrative for me.
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On March 03 2015 20:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:For the record i wanna press the device to see what happens, now when if it's a bad thing it doesn't fucking kill us outright. sandroba suggesting this: Show nested quote +I think a good strat is to guard it until / if town is in a losing spot then press it if it gets to that point. is scummyscummyscum..... The only correct way to do this is either figure out what pressing the device does NOW, or destroy it immediately.
I was just about to post, I do think sandrobras may be scum, but he is theoretically right here. I sense no one's going to listen to me about the damn device, so I'll shut up about it after this post, but if you just think about it, if you have a chance to insert a totally random unknown effect into any game, it stands to reason that whenever you're losing anyway is a good time to do it.
By the way, really not pushing the device discussion, but why does that comment make him scummy?
Also, the reason I think he may be scum is first of all a low content, but more interestingly that when discussing the "shoot as lynch" policy, he was incredibly unwilling to commit and basically flip-flopped around saying we can do this, or we can do that while leaving his phraseology so ambiguous that it could be interpreted as either.
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On March 03 2015 20:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 20:36 AT.Epiphany wrote:On March 03 2015 20:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:For the record i wanna press the device to see what happens, now when if it's a bad thing it doesn't fucking kill us outright. sandroba suggesting this: I think a good strat is to guard it until / if town is in a losing spot then press it if it gets to that point. is scummyscummyscum..... The only correct way to do this is either figure out what pressing the device does NOW, or destroy it immediately. I was just about to post, I do think sandrobras may be scum, but he is theoretically right here. I sense no one's going to listen to me about the damn device, so I'll shut up about it after this post, but if you just think about it, if you have a chance to insert a totally random unknown effect into any game, it stands to reason that whenever you're losing anyway is a good time to do it. By the way, really not pushing the device discussion, but why does that comment make him scummy? Also, the reason I think he may be scum is first of all a low content, but more interestingly that when discussing the "shoot as lynch" policy, he was incredibly unwilling to commit and basically flip-flopped around saying we can do this, or we can do that while leaving his phraseology so ambiguous that it could be interpreted as either. The reason is as far as the game is going on you are never "already lost". In LYLO you do not want ANYTHING that could possibly give mafia KP or fuck up the lynch. You just want the townies to lynch mafia. Therefore, as i said, the only correct plays regarding the device are: 1) figure out what it does now, and then decide what to do with it or if it's worth keeping around at all 2) ignore it, accept it doesn't need to be in the game and destroy it Keeping it around and not doing anything with it isn't an option because at some point it might become a liability to the town.
Ok. That's a fair enough argument, but it would have helped if you or someone else made this a while ago rather than simply suppressing the debate. I think the town can be in a situation desperate enough before it's actually LYLO, but at least I can see now what your point is, so I'll leave this issue.
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On March 03 2015 20:42 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 19:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 03 2015 19:03 AT.Epiphany wrote:On March 03 2015 18:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 03 2015 18:43 Mocsta wrote: Anyways, I was more alluding hes either faking dubm (a la BH) or is the typical fallacious status quo. I judged a lot of the interactions as philosophical warring and treat him as #2 (fallacious) currently. Thus, my current expectation for him is to act in the way you deem unfit for perfect play.
I am not sure i buy this explanation. So your conclusion (yes, in the post where you originally posted your comment i talked about it WAS a conclusion of yours) is that he, as town, for some reason should scumread people who scumread his town reads. I have absolutely no idea how you end up on this conclusion because it is a narrative YOU invented for him and nothing in his play implicates he should think this way. I agree with what you write, though I don't really have any conclusion coming out of it. I don't think that disagreeing with me about somebody being town makes them suspicious in my eyes. By the way, I didn't even see that as a "narrative he invented for me", but simply as what was natural to his thought process, I might have disagreed with him about it on another day, but I've had enough hostility on me without quibbling with him about what approach is natural. He posted that under 'basis' so I took that to be his thought process about whom he tends to suspect rather than him creating a narrative for me. The problem here for me is that apparently Mocsta sees you as some kind of a dumbass who has no clue in how to play mafia. I heavily disagree with that because of your post on geript. While i think you are wrong on geript's alignment and at the start of the game focused on things i find to be irrelevant your post on geript was really thought out and it fits with how you think the D1 here should be played in your opinion. I find those cases on geript a massive towntell for you, and i also find them to show that you are actually well capable of thinking which makes you NOT a bad player. However Mocsta seems to be thinking the opposite and i can't understand why. Like i don't even know what he got out of calling you mafia??? Many big wasted posts to end up in a conclusion "this guy is dumb"?? I don't buy it. I posted as I read the thread. I genuinely thought his first two posts were scummy. However, he has an influx of posts on the proceeding pages that: A - Do not move the thread forward B - Heavily argue his theory on how the game should be play (akin to yourself right now) Clearly, someone could make a case on him saying he is posting useless content for the sake of it... however, i think he is a butthurt over-zealous individual, as opposed to someone maliciously posting in the thread to destroy town atmosphere/blend in. This makes him a low priority for my evaluation day 1. Frankly, I am surprised you haven't question Epiphany regarding his town read of Koshi.
Seriously, arguing how I think we should proceed does move the thread forward. Whether that's a good or bad thing depends on whether you agree with the direction I'm advocating, but it's a genuine and entirely logical argument on what we should do. You'll also notice I've abandoned that line and focused a lot on scumhunting, once it's become abundantly clear that people aren't going to follow that plan, and hence there is no value to my continuing to advocate that line of action.
Secondly, if you find my town read of Koshi suspicious, why not question me yourself instead of asking Rayn to do it?
As for me being butt-hurt and zealous, I suspect you would react the same way if some guy starts abusing you the way geript was. I'm not going to apologize for that, and if he starts again, I'll continue to give as good as I get.
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On March 03 2015 21:19 Koshi wrote: No questions for Koshixxx?
Okay, I'll bite? Why such low participation/unavailability? Koshixxx
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On March 04 2015 00:33 Koshi wrote: I will post absolutely nothing for the next 18 hours. Koshi will not make another post till this countdown is on 0:00
I made this decision after reading the posts made by 7-8 players in this game. Nothing I did was scummy this game, I just decided to not play for the first 2 hours of the game because I wanted to do other things during that time (00:00 till 02:00), slept for 10 hours and had to work after that. But for some fucking reason I am scumread by 7-8 people for this, while it doesn't make any sense in the world that I should be SHOT for this. Yes, you can put some suspicion on me, I guess that is fine. But to read the dumb certainty from people like sicklucker and rayn about my alignment just bores me and makes me mad + somewhat sad.
So I decided to do nothing till after I wake up tomorrow and maybe glance over the thread again.
Let it also be known the sentiment in this thread is pretty mafia favored, we got too many people wanting to shoot way too early. If I have to read more post from somebody like geript I actually might get cancer. The guy thinks he got reads while he just got proven wrong on every flip in an ongoing game I will not discuss further than these flips. It is just cancerous.
So I might get shot for deciding to not play this game hard in the first 24hours, so be it. This is not on me. This is on the townleaders in this thread using this lynchsystem extremely bad and thinking they are better than they actually are. Because don't be fooled. There is no case on me except meta. And the meta used on me is actually not that good, it's extremely lazy form of meta based on me not playing for 2 hours before going to bed. Quite obviously I am still not playing, even after being awake for 4 more hours, even though I posted some things, and I just declared another +17 hours of not posting. So I guess now you could make some sort of meta read. Maybe. But tbh as mafia I am more around than this. But maybe not. I am not sure how my mafia game looks like.
I would say that we should shoot somewhere in 48 hours. That would be optimal. But I don't think that will happen because some dumbasses are putting the idea in the thread we should shoot really fast because otherwise mafia will use the shot (which is not the worst play in this atmoshphere because you might get away with it, because nobody is saying that shooting is claiming scum, or trying to make sure town doesn't shoot. And on top of that the game looks shitty balanced and getting a ml already is pretty awesome, especially if tomorrow it is cell (and then the shooter isn't in the cell) and the day after that it is mayor and mafia is able to get a scum mayor because there are no townies left anyway. GG.
Anyway. Do w.e the fuck you want. I am sitting this one out on the sidelines. I will post some smart stuff in 17 hours. If I get the chance. And I feel like. Because if somebody else is shot and it is a town I might just not give 2 fucks at all. Unless I then see mafia not nk anybody. And the ninjas hitting scum. Or something like that. My expectation for this game are low. I can already not wait to see how fast town spirit will gain points and how expensive the blue roles are against the mafia counterpart.
This is the best post so far on the thread. He might be mafia, but the fact that people want to shoot him for the flimsy reasons he outlined pretty much encapsulates why he probably wouldn't play as Mafia like this. People just really like killing people for bizzare reasons like this.
Seriously, there are a lot of 'leader' types here who think randomly pointing fingers or throwing speculative 50 layer deep meta 'reads' around is 'advancing the thread' but trying to discuss a constructive plan for the town in an unusual set-up is a wastage of time. All of this has created a great atmosphere for mafia, and I echo the idea that people really shouldn't be okaying the idea of guys taking a shot at the first opportunity and then saying "Oops sorry, he looked so scummy it was really obvious. His bad for playing town like that" This is precisely what I think geript plans to do, and why he antagonized me, because it's really easy to look at a new account townie and then claim that shooting them was justified because they played badly. I continue to think geript is scum, though consensus opinion insists that he is probably town.
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On March 04 2015 00:43 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +Spirits gain points per X hours. Those points can be spent buying roles for their faction. They also have a few other powers to influence the game, but they cannot interact directly. Upon reading the thread, this was the first thing that I noticed. Typically town will benefit from roles more than mafia. I have no evidence that it would benefit us to maximize the length of day one, but if I had to guess I would probably say that the more points the spirit gains before the night cycle the better. The challenge would be how do we get this to happen? I'd be in favor of some sort of policy where we all agree not to shoot until an hour before the actual deadline, but for this to work everyone would need to be on board and willing to go after anyone who breaks the policy. Being realistic, there is always going to be one townie who decides to yolo the shot immediately, but I'll put the idea out there anyways. Despite this, I am also playing with the idea of taking the selfish role and insta-shooting like sandroba suggests just to have the control if I feel somewhat confident. I like Tube's suggestion about the shot vote count, though that doesn't say much about tube the player. The biggest problem with this format is that if town makes it clear that player X is getting shot, player X simply shoots first, but that's not a problem if we just follow it for the first 22 hours. To get the rest of the policy out of the way, I'll be guarding the button unless I have a reason to choose one of the other options. From a setup perspective, I'd put the button in the "manipulative" category where a certain player or faction has to convince others to blindly perform an action, which tends to get ugly. Ninja's should be shooting early and often. From my experience, a ninja very rarely locates another ninja through analysis. It's mostly winning by staying alive longer. By shooting early, you maximize your chance to eliminate the other ninja's vest an open them up to a night kill. Furthermore, if you happen to hit a player with your first shot and they live, odds are you've probably won right there. Dying with two shots in hand is pretty worthless. The reason I'm saying this is that shooting early also benefits town because the mafia kp can be reduced by reducing their numbers and flipping the first mafia always snowballs the game. Ninja isn't an anti-town 3p like serial killer so we can both benefit in setups like these by working together. Epiphany had the weak intro post feeling obligated to explain why he wasn't posting. He mentions that he is a newbie several times, even before the Mocsta post, yet then starts talking about geript saying that: "Every single time he's been Mafia he's far more aggressive and confrontational than he is as Town. Moreover his mafia games have him rapidly suggesting lynch targets and putting out scumpiles pretty quickly. As a mafia (and not as a Town) he invariably pushes multiple targets and acts aggressively." I could be wrong, but this would imply that he probably isn't a newbie. I don't have a problem with smurfs, but the likely deception seems scummy. Also, he needs to be less angry Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 21:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: batsnacks why did you want to wish good luck to mafia? This one I found a bit odd. It's fine to joke with him about being shot, but then following up with another question as if he is actually trying to trap him here either means he is attempting to look like he is scum hunting or is feeling really, really optimistic. Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 15:35 IAmRobik wrote: lol @ the nuked stuff. I thought he was suicide bomber or something like that trying to detonate. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Heh so you thought a host was able to modify the appearance of the TeamLiquid forums for his mafia game? Right.... Koshi's idea to policy a day one shot is decent in theory to deter a poor shot, but it probably won't go anywhere. Toads suggestion that he doesn't want to be too townish is pretty silly. You can't justify that with a straight face. Damdred seems scummy enough to warrant keeping an eye on. Can't point to anything in specific though. I didn't really see Obi as the clear suspect upon my first read through like Sepulchre suggests. Sepulchre comes off as a reasonable individual though. Hopefully I'll have a better idea for a few shot targets before the 24 hour mark.
I mentioned newbie because this particular bit was brought up by Geript in a highly insulting manner. Seriously read the stuff geript wrote, it's probably more angry than me, and what's more entirely unprovoked personal attacks from him. That's why I was angry for a while, which I no longer am.
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On March 04 2015 00:56 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2015 00:51 AT.Epiphany wrote:On March 04 2015 00:43 kitaman27 wrote:Spirits gain points per X hours. Those points can be spent buying roles for their faction. They also have a few other powers to influence the game, but they cannot interact directly. Upon reading the thread, this was the first thing that I noticed. Typically town will benefit from roles more than mafia. I have no evidence that it would benefit us to maximize the length of day one, but if I had to guess I would probably say that the more points the spirit gains before the night cycle the better. The challenge would be how do we get this to happen? I'd be in favor of some sort of policy where we all agree not to shoot until an hour before the actual deadline, but for this to work everyone would need to be on board and willing to go after anyone who breaks the policy. Being realistic, there is always going to be one townie who decides to yolo the shot immediately, but I'll put the idea out there anyways. Despite this, I am also playing with the idea of taking the selfish role and insta-shooting like sandroba suggests just to have the control if I feel somewhat confident. I like Tube's suggestion about the shot vote count, though that doesn't say much about tube the player. The biggest problem with this format is that if town makes it clear that player X is getting shot, player X simply shoots first, but that's not a problem if we just follow it for the first 22 hours. To get the rest of the policy out of the way, I'll be guarding the button unless I have a reason to choose one of the other options. From a setup perspective, I'd put the button in the "manipulative" category where a certain player or faction has to convince others to blindly perform an action, which tends to get ugly. Ninja's should be shooting early and often. From my experience, a ninja very rarely locates another ninja through analysis. It's mostly winning by staying alive longer. By shooting early, you maximize your chance to eliminate the other ninja's vest an open them up to a night kill. Furthermore, if you happen to hit a player with your first shot and they live, odds are you've probably won right there. Dying with two shots in hand is pretty worthless. The reason I'm saying this is that shooting early also benefits town because the mafia kp can be reduced by reducing their numbers and flipping the first mafia always snowballs the game. Ninja isn't an anti-town 3p like serial killer so we can both benefit in setups like these by working together. Epiphany had the weak intro post feeling obligated to explain why he wasn't posting. He mentions that he is a newbie several times, even before the Mocsta post, yet then starts talking about geript saying that: "Every single time he's been Mafia he's far more aggressive and confrontational than he is as Town. Moreover his mafia games have him rapidly suggesting lynch targets and putting out scumpiles pretty quickly. As a mafia (and not as a Town) he invariably pushes multiple targets and acts aggressively." I could be wrong, but this would imply that he probably isn't a newbie. I don't have a problem with smurfs, but the likely deception seems scummy. Also, he needs to be less angry On March 03 2015 21:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: batsnacks why did you want to wish good luck to mafia? This one I found a bit odd. It's fine to joke with him about being shot, but then following up with another question as if he is actually trying to trap him here either means he is attempting to look like he is scum hunting or is feeling really, really optimistic. On March 03 2015 15:35 IAmRobik wrote: lol @ the nuked stuff. I thought he was suicide bomber or something like that trying to detonate. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Heh so you thought a host was able to modify the appearance of the TeamLiquid forums for his mafia game? Right.... Koshi's idea to policy a day one shot is decent in theory to deter a poor shot, but it probably won't go anywhere. Toads suggestion that he doesn't want to be too townish is pretty silly. You can't justify that with a straight face. Damdred seems scummy enough to warrant keeping an eye on. Can't point to anything in specific though. I didn't really see Obi as the clear suspect upon my first read through like Sepulchre suggests. Sepulchre comes off as a reasonable individual though. Hopefully I'll have a better idea for a few shot targets before the 24 hour mark. I mentioned newbie because this particular bit was brought up by Geript in a highly insulting manner. Seriously read the stuff geript wrote, it's probably more angry than me, and what's more entirely unprovoked personal attacks from him. That's why I was angry for a while, which I no longer am. Were you familiar with geript's mafia play prior to the game starting or is that something that you took the time to research once it began? If it is the latter, was there something that geript posted that triggered you to do some research or was he someone you just picked out and happened to find evidence when reading his past games that led you to your conclusion?
I did the research because of geript's almost immediate hectoring and abuse of me from the moment I made my first post.
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On March 04 2015 03:33 IAmRobik wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2015 03:32 geript wrote: I'd still rather shoot Koshi. He's done fuck all this game. I'm probably cool with this.
I don't want to shoot him, and I'm leaning more on him as Town. I'm more comfortable shooting your mom as per Rayn's long reasoning.
In any event, if you do want to shoot him I, please the guys advocating this, and especially the guy pulling the trigger, please provide some reasoning deeper than "he started out not being very active". I might be wrong and he may well be scum, but if not, I really want the guys who are so keen to shoot to not fall back on reasoning like "Oh well that's too bad" or "He should have participated more". This is a very convenient bandwagon at the moment, and it's really easy for people to default to shooting him because he seems like the most obvious candidate.
The thing I really don't want is the Mafia being able to take a shot at a guy, provide almost no reasoning before and then afterwards when he flips town to claim that it was justified because he acted a little unusual.
It's really late in my time zone, so I will be going to bed shortly.
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On March 04 2015 03:44 rsoultin wrote: Seriously, epiphany just said:
I don't want to shoot koshi for...no reason YM works cause sheeping rayn long useless rant on why whoever is shooting should have good reasons for shooting who they are going to shoot then peaces out
meeeeeeh post and if koshi is town lynch this guy
I'm tired, but seriously my reason was "I think he's town", which I've explained in two separate posts.
I agree with rayn's reasoning. You're free to conclude whatever you want from that.
It's a meaningful rant, because we're nearing a situation where exactly what I said is looking likely.
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Hey guys, just popping in briefly, I'm ill and work hasn't been so great, hence the absence. I've read through the thread superficially once, but noticed nothing significant for now. I'm going to sleep and try and post something substantial later when I wake up.
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Hi, I'll keep this short because I'm still quite ill and tomorrow's likely to be quite busy at work (@ Rayn this is why I've dropped off a bit today, along with it being night, and no immediate decision to be made anyway).
I'm really bummed out by Koshi getting himself mod-killed thereby obviating the mafia's need to shoot him (I was pretty sure he was town). At this point, my main point of interest is getting into the dispute between Mocsta and Breshke. I'm confident that one of the two of these guys is definitely scum and that this isn't TOWN-TOWN the general consensus seems to be Breshke. One reason I'm finding it difficult to trust Mocsta on this is that he launched a similarly flimsy attack on me on D1, which he then retracted or distanced himself from after he asked me for a few reads, which i gave, even though he wasn't satisfied with one of them (Koshi Town which was subsequently vindicated). I really didn't change my stance or do anything different subsequently, so I'm really puzzled as to why Mocsta's suddenly dropped off questioning me. I'd also note that this drop-off has coincided with an increasing number of people town-reading me, and I find this a little suspicious.
@ Rayn: You were questioning Mocsta hard at one point, and now he's green on your filter, what's the reasoning for the change?
Also, I'm null on Breshke, I don't think his behaviour on the spat between Geript and me was necessarily scummy in that his justification that he wanted to listen to me, even if he thought I sounded scummy makes some sense.
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I also townread Toad because I really like a lot of his analysis and I think he's been trying (and doing a good job) of steering the dynamic in a more constructive direction and avoiding a chaotic, unaccountable atmosphere we had in the first 35 or so pages.
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On March 05 2015 04:16 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2015 04:07 AT.Epiphany wrote: At this point, my main point of interest is getting into the dispute between Mocsta and Breshke. I'm confident that one of the two of these guys is definitely scum and that this isn't TOWN-TOWN Same post later on: How can you say it's not town-town if you are NULL on Breshke? Your first sentence suggests that if Mocsta is town, Breshke is mafia, but your second suggests you don't have a read on Breshke. Could you elaborate here?
I just mean I'm sure one of them is scum, but I'm not sure which. At this point, I'm leaning slightly towards it being Mocsta, but I'm really not sure primarily because I don't entirely agree with Mocsta's reasoning on Breshke's 'wishy-washy content'. That said Mocsta has been more actively hunting while Breshke's behaviour has been rather reactive in nature. I'm not sure, but if somebody can analyse this interaction better than I have we could probably get closer to a conclusion on this. Since everyone seems to think it's Breshke, I don't mind defaulting to that assumption as long as the discussion gets focused on this for a bit. It won't be a derail anyway, because Breshke seems to be high on everyone's suspect list at the moment.
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On March 05 2015 04:23 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2015 04:22 AT.Epiphany wrote:On March 05 2015 04:16 kitaman27 wrote:On March 05 2015 04:07 AT.Epiphany wrote: At this point, my main point of interest is getting into the dispute between Mocsta and Breshke. I'm confident that one of the two of these guys is definitely scum and that this isn't TOWN-TOWN Same post later on: On March 05 2015 04:07 AT.Epiphany wrote: Also, I'm null on Breshke How can you say it's not town-town if you are NULL on Breshke? Your first sentence suggests that if Mocsta is town, Breshke is mafia, but your second suggests you don't have a read on Breshke. Could you elaborate here? I just mean I'm sure one of them is scum, but I'm not sure which. Why?
Primarily because of the tone of the interaction with Mocsta tunnelling Breshke and the latter reacting to Mocsta as a threat. There doesn't seem to be even a bit of pause where either of them is considering the other to be on the same side, and that's usually not how I'd expect it in town vs town. What's more this wasn't really heated or personal either, and it doesn't look like an ego-clash the way people have interpreted Geript vs me (to clarify I still stick with my initial opinion of that, but there's no point going over that at the moment and ruining a constructive atmosphere)
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