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Of the two counterwagons, rsoultin is reading clear town to me, atm, and there's enough of a question mark over zlefin in that I think he simply might be approaching things in a different way with his seeking information thing, so I don't want to lynch him over Hier. Plus I always feel terribad about lynching a brand new player Day 1, it just feels wrong to me. But that's not my main consideration.
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On February 17 2015 05:48 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:42 Tere wrote:On February 17 2015 05:24 Hier wrote:
Now that I've started reading Tere's filter I've noticed that she does not have a case on me at all. She has taken rsoultin's route of "Your post is bad, Hier." No suggestion of intention, or a probable goal I might have as scum. This seems like an easy bandwagon to jump onto, scoring a free townie lynch. Ballsacks, I make my view of you pretty damn clear in the post explaining my vote, including specific posts I think are scummy, and have pointed out one of the items I think most problematic again very recently. It's hard not to see that as misrepresentation. I am trying to give you the opportunity to clear yourself but it's not going very well for me here. Are you going to answer my question? Also a bonus question, are you having fun here, it doesn't look like you are having fun? Final RFI - this might be how you are, it's possible. Can you please link your previous games at TL Mafia with alignment? I will go have a read through those filters but right now I'm not feeling a reason to move my vote. You voted for me in one post, and claimed that I could be a town player and that we need to look for counterwagons in your very next post. Sounds to me like even you thought your case against me was weak.
That's called wanting to give someone the benefit of the doubt.
If it makes you feel better, you are making me more confident on my scumread every time you post.
Now are you going to answer my question?
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Nope, you just don't understand the way I do my reads.
A lot is based on tone.
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On February 17 2015 05:17 Tere wrote:Out of interest, are you still intending to follow your Bridges strategy? (bold mine) Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 07:50 Hier wrote:
Trfel:
It only takes one other player to declare his or her support for the model to get people to support its use. I know how Bridges works and how to use it to get a town victory. I will always abide by its rules, but if you later decide it's not worth it by all means abandon it.
^
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On February 17 2015 05:48 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:42 Tere wrote:On February 17 2015 05:24 Hier wrote:
Now that I've started reading Tere's filter I've noticed that she does not have a case on me at all. She has taken rsoultin's route of "Your post is bad, Hier." No suggestion of intention, or a probable goal I might have as scum. This seems like an easy bandwagon to jump onto, scoring a free townie lynch. Ballsacks, I make my view of you pretty damn clear in the post explaining my vote, including specific posts I think are scummy, and have pointed out one of the items I think most problematic again very recently. It's hard not to see that as misrepresentation. I am trying to give you the opportunity to clear yourself but it's not going very well for me here. Are you going to answer my question? Also a bonus question, are you having fun here, it doesn't look like you are having fun? Final RFI - this might be how you are, it's possible. Can you please link your previous games at TL Mafia with alignment? I will go have a read through those filters but right now I'm not feeling a reason to move my vote. You voted for me in one post, and claimed that I could be a town player and that we need to look for counterwagons in your very next post. Sounds to me like even you thought your case against me was weak.
Oh, and these questions, which I know you saw, since you replied to this post.
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On February 17 2015 05:56 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:56 Tere wrote:On February 17 2015 05:17 Tere wrote:Out of interest, are you still intending to follow your Bridges strategy? (bold mine) On February 16 2015 07:50 Hier wrote:
Trfel:
It only takes one other player to declare his or her support for the model to get people to support its use. I know how Bridges works and how to use it to get a town victory. I will always abide by its rules, but if you later decide it's not worth it by all means abandon it. ^ Ok, ladies first. I'll be here when you post.
Seriously dude?
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It's not my neck on the chopping block.
I guess Hier doesn't want to defend himself 
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Also I would absolutely love to hear the thoughts of the Shining, ElyAs, and Silverarte before the end of day 
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On February 17 2015 06:00 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:59 Tere wrote:It's not my neck on the chopping block. I guess Hier doesn't want to defend himself This is a team game. It makes no difference if I get lynched, so long as town wins. As of right now you are formally ignoring my request.
I guess that's just like the several questions you've ignored and the misrepresentations you've made of several people's reads. Oh, wait....
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On February 17 2015 06:06 Hier wrote:
There is no avoiding me getting lynched, that has been established a long time ago. I am making last efforts for town to win once I'm gone.
Okies, then you will be happy providing a last will and testament with cases, right?
(Not understanding the way someone plays isn't a case  )
(FWIW this applies to me too, but if he's not going to supply any other evidence that his town game looks like this then I can't look at it)
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Last post about 30 mins ago. He's not voted yet, so I guess he'll be back.
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Quick filter skim on ElyAs:
Doesn't like your joke about being mafia the last time you posted a provocative entry post, Trfel, thinks it's mafia. Not sold on the Bridges plan.
Initial reads here:
+ Show Spoiler +On February 15 2015 20:08 ElyAs wrote:
Actually, I'm gonna elaborate on this.
Although I don't like Trfel's opening, he is clearly trying to start discussions so I can't scumread him for that. I'm just gonna keep this in mind for later, but not gonna vote for him day 1.
Shining posted a bit and disappeared, his last post was hinting towards "I'm gonna post more later", I expect you to do it. Until then nullread
Rsoultin discussed with Trfel, then with jarjar, she is asking questions, which what I'd expect from town.
jarjarbinks is sharing his insight on rsoultin's demand, but apart from that, not a lot of content. What do you think of Hier's plan ?
Hier only posted his plan, and I've given my thoughts on that.
Pokes the two inactives (my slot and Silver), pokes zlef for reads on Trfel and JarJar,
Feels better about Trfel's entry, likes Rso's push on Hier. Some discomfort with reading Hier as town, pokes me when I show up.
Case and vote on Hier here:
+ Show Spoiler +On February 16 2015 23:45 ElyAs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 21:07 zlefin wrote:On February 16 2015 15:17 Hier wrote:On February 16 2015 15:10 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 14:52 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 14:47 Hier wrote:On February 16 2015 12:51 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 07:08 Hier wrote:
rsoultin:
In 3 separate posts you have described your reads to be null towards people that have posted, and despite you not liking the Bridges method, which is fine, said that it is something a town player may suggest thinking it’s good.
Later, after someone mentioned they weren't a fan of my model, you've gone to suggest that I've done nothing to show that I care about finding scum,
all the while you proclaim your reads are null and just ask what other players’ reads are. That is the way mafia players probe the scene to start a bandwagon.
Why else, out of the blue, without any further analysis, would you vote me to be lynched with the phrase “Tell me why I’m wrong, or get onboard.”? No, it is your job to tell everyone the reasons behind your vote, not to tell everyone to get onboard. Okay, in the interest of fairness, if you genuinely believe each of these claims, I can understand your scumread. So I'm going to ask you to actually quote the posts I made that led you to the three bolded conclusions. Preferably in context, because if you misrepresent me I do very much have a tendency to get tunneled xP Once you've done so, I'll answer the last bit. Alright. You went back to my original accusation, to which you have already responded, and are now demanding further explanation when, quite literally, nobody else is asking for it. People have already read my statement and have made up their minds, whatever those may be. You are creating artificial content by searching for an excuse to re-state your innocence, and projecting the appearance of scum hunting at the same time. That would create drivel. You have not been the centre of discussion for several pages, and nobody has been tunnelling you, much less me. Right now it looks like the one doing the tunnelling is you. Look, for now my vote stays where it is. If you post something that changes my mind or a more obvious scum target comes up I promise I will be the first one to let you know. For now let me focus on somebody else, instead of going through your filter again. On February 16 2015 13:31 jarjarbinks wrote:On February 16 2015 07:58 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 07:50 Hier wrote:
Trfel:
It only takes one other player to declare his or her support for the model to get people to support its use. I know how Bridges works and how to use it to get a town victory. I will always abide by its rules, but if you later decide it's not worth it by all means abandon it.
Didn't you say that you'd just made this method up? And again, you're focusing on the model and not what I'm asking you for. @Trfel - I am not in favor of Bridges. Clearly. Even if Hier would be the next "auto-lynch" and I'd laugh my ass off if he flips scum, caught in his own mechanism Hier, I know a lot of people have been asking you questions. Can you answer this one? Should be easy enough? I've already answered this, and my answer isn't changing. Yes, as the game began. As of right now I do not think Trfel or jarjarbinks are scum, and thus have no intention of voting for them. I don't know if this is just because you're new, but me bringing up your case on me and giving you the opportunity to justify it...how does that come from a scum perspective? As you said, no one seems to really be buying your case, so why would I need to further establish my innocence? For the record, I'd still like this answered, Hier. From a more veteran player I'd be calling to lynch you with fire for most of your posts xP but I recognize that this is a newbie game and you might actually believe what you're saying. I just don't know how far my lexicon can take me reiterating my own accusations, and I don't really see the point when you'll just rebuke it my saying I misinterpreted your quotes, thus creating a nucleus for a completely unnecessary discussion. But if you really really really want I'll do so in the morning. It's getting late here too, and tomorrow is a holiday here, so I'll have time. I would like it if you did that, I find this post of yours feels scummy to me. It feels like a lot of blather, and needlessly fanc y words (admittedly something I tend to do myself), that say very little and amount to a post that doesn't really add anything. I kinda agree with you on that post zlefin, and it's not the only post where I feel Hier is almost trying to confuse us. Hier, I think this is inconsistent with the fact that you proposed a plan based on "eliminating chaos". I understand that you're saying "I don't want to create unnecessary discussion", and that is consistent with your thought process, but I still have trouble following you on some posts. (post for reference) Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 07:08 Hier wrote:
jarjarbinks, Trfel:
Purely numerically completely off the wall random lynches win out over the Bridges method by a little over 2 percentage points at the second lynch; it is negligible. In both cases mafia’s odds of escaping 2 lynches in a row are a little better than a coin flip.
Better blind mathematical odds are not, however, what I’m advocating. I am selling a platform, a canvas, through which reads can be made. You say people will be content with the predetermined 2nd lynch and activity will drop – I say you’re wrong. As long as there are 2 sides that want to win arguments will always arise, except in this case they will be of a different nature: justification of substitution, rather than a timed mandatory witch hunt. Bandwagons will certainly not be eliminated, but through this method they will demand sturdier foundations, which eliminates chaos.
[...] Plus as other players said, you were only talking about your plan and your scumread on rsoultin, half justified by "She is next on my list" and "She has null reads". Later, you said "Null reads are bad and counter productive". I disagree on that, because it promotes more effort from the person that is painted as null. If I don't have clear scumreads, I'm gonna analyze my null reads first. I do agree that saying "I've got a nullread on an inactive" is not constructive, but on active players, It is. (post for reference) Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 04:23 Hier wrote:
I was excited seeing so many new posts, turns out it was for naught. A lot of people are requesting that I provide further reads. I am going to point out that as off right now ElyAs, zlefin, jarjarbinks, and Trfel have not a single scum read with justification between them. Instead what we have from them is a mass of neutral to townish reads that they aren’t willing to commit to, opting to wait for more posts from other people by asking for their reads.
I have provided my prime scum read with justification. Of course rsoultin may just not be very good at the game, which is fine, but I’ll stand by my claim. The Shining’s scum read on zlefin isn’t without rationale, but I suspect the second mafia player to be one of the two inactive players. I do not have a solid town read, in fact it doesn’t make sense to, and stating you are neutral about that guy and that guy isn’t productive. Now, you said you were going to focus on somebody else, I look forward to this. But until then, ##vote Hier
A lot of what he's saying there I agree with. He does post his slight worry about it being a mislynch later but we've all gone through that I think.
He's not been back in the thread since Hier showed back up.
On the basis of that I wouldn't lynch him over Hier.
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On February 17 2015 05:55 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:50 Tere wrote:On February 17 2015 05:48 Hier wrote:On February 17 2015 05:42 Tere wrote:On February 17 2015 05:24 Hier wrote:
Now that I've started reading Tere's filter I've noticed that she does not have a case on me at all. She has taken rsoultin's route of "Your post is bad, Hier." No suggestion of intention, or a probable goal I might have as scum. This seems like an easy bandwagon to jump onto, scoring a free townie lynch. Ballsacks, I make my view of you pretty damn clear in the post explaining my vote, including specific posts I think are scummy, and have pointed out one of the items I think most problematic again very recently. It's hard not to see that as misrepresentation. I am trying to give you the opportunity to clear yourself but it's not going very well for me here. Are you going to answer my question? Also a bonus question, are you having fun here, it doesn't look like you are having fun? Final RFI - this might be how you are, it's possible. Can you please link your previous games at TL Mafia with alignment? I will go have a read through those filters but right now I'm not feeling a reason to move my vote. You voted for me in one post, and claimed that I could be a town player and that we need to look for counterwagons in your very next post. Sounds to me like even you thought your case against me was weak. That's called wanting to give someone the benefit of the doubt. If it makes you feel better, you are making me more confident on my scumread every time you post. Now are you going to answer my question? In turn, your innocence fades with each of yours. Why don't you convince me that you are town, and I will answer your question (which you'll have to repost).
Well, jarjar, this is what I've got, it's not really a question, is it. It kinda bugs me that Hier's repeatedly refused to answer questions even when reposted, that's not town helpful at all IMO.
But on the basis that it might be helpful for you also, I can have a stab.
I'm reaching out and trying to engage with as many people as possible. On Day 1 locked townreads are very hard but it's important for me to reach out and try to understand people and see if we can work together. I wouldn't call it town block, but a lot of my initial work goes on understanding tone and getting the feel for how people play - even more important when I have no meta and you are all unknowns IMO.
I've read through the thread to catch up and I've gone through all the filters and posted my thoughts on them (I am feeling better about you BTW)
I've considered whether or not I am tunnelling (I don't think I am!).
I've asked Hier to come back into the thread and talk to us rather than tunnelling on my scumread.
I've asked Hier for alternate evidence as to playstyle so I can triangulate with known town in case he's just rubbing me up the wrong way and it's a playstyle clash.
I've considered the cases for the alternate wagons and thought of alternatives. I just don't like any of them more than where I have my vote right now.
Would anything else be helpful for you? Same question for Hier?
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On February 17 2015 06:35 jarjarbinks wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:59 Tere wrote:It's not my neck on the chopping block. I guess Hier doesn't want to defend himself It doesn't hurt to answer his stuff first does it?
Done.
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On February 17 2015 06:41 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 06:27 jarjarbinks wrote:
Hier: Who do you think is more likely to turn up scum, Rso or Tere? Is there someone else you think is more likely? I've noted that rsoultin's play could be attributed to a few minor mistakes, all conglomerating to form a potential scum vibe, with a viable agenda. Tere, on the other hand, I don't think I've seen a more obvious scum play.
OMGUS much?
Right, I've played your game, now answer your questions. A full clear read on all participants would be awesome. You have time, and, as you say, it's in the interests of town that you be clear.
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Shining just unvoted in the voting thread, and I was a doofus and posted there.
BRB while I collect post.
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On February 17 2015 07:10 Tere wrote:
Hi, the Shining, how you doin'?
(I'm reading a game on another site atm but checking back and forth)
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On February 17 2015 07:25 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 06:46 Tere wrote:On February 17 2015 05:55 Hier wrote:On February 17 2015 05:50 Tere wrote:On February 17 2015 05:48 Hier wrote:On February 17 2015 05:42 Tere wrote:On February 17 2015 05:24 Hier wrote:
Now that I've started reading Tere's filter I've noticed that she does not have a case on me at all. She has taken rsoultin's route of "Your post is bad, Hier." No suggestion of intention, or a probable goal I might have as scum. This seems like an easy bandwagon to jump onto, scoring a free townie lynch. Ballsacks, I make my view of you pretty damn clear in the post explaining my vote, including specific posts I think are scummy, and have pointed out one of the items I think most problematic again very recently. It's hard not to see that as misrepresentation. I am trying to give you the opportunity to clear yourself but it's not going very well for me here. Are you going to answer my question? Also a bonus question, are you having fun here, it doesn't look like you are having fun? Final RFI - this might be how you are, it's possible. Can you please link your previous games at TL Mafia with alignment? I will go have a read through those filters but right now I'm not feeling a reason to move my vote. You voted for me in one post, and claimed that I could be a town player and that we need to look for counterwagons in your very next post. Sounds to me like even you thought your case against me was weak. That's called wanting to give someone the benefit of the doubt. If it makes you feel better, you are making me more confident on my scumread every time you post. Now are you going to answer my question? In turn, your innocence fades with each of yours. Why don't you convince me that you are town, and I will answer your question (which you'll have to repost). Well, jarjar, this is what I've got, it's not really a question, is it. It kinda bugs me that Hier's repeatedly refused to answer questions even when reposted, that's not town helpful at all IMO. But on the basis that it might be helpful for you also, I can have a stab. I'm reaching out and trying to engage with as many people as possible. On Day 1 locked townreads are very hard but it's important for me to reach out and try to understand people and see if we can work together. I wouldn't call it town block, but a lot of my initial work goes on understanding tone and getting the feel for how people play - even more important when I have no meta and you are all unknowns IMO. I've read through the thread to catch up and I've gone through all the filters and posted my thoughts on them (I am feeling better about you BTW) I've considered whether or not I am tunnelling (I don't think I am!). I've asked Hier to come back into the thread and talk to us rather than tunnelling on my scumread. I've asked Hier for alternate evidence as to playstyle so I can triangulate with known town in case he's just rubbing me up the wrong way and it's a playstyle clash. I've considered the cases for the alternate wagons and thought of alternatives. I just don't like any of them more than where I have my vote right now. Would anything else be helpful for you? Same question for Hier? This was weak, and contradictory. The very first line of your very first game-related post was you voting to have me lynched. You did not try and "reach out to me" and "engage" with me, as you have put it. You came in as scum, saw a town player having a lot of votes, and auto-voted. It's really that simple. I have said you were a scumread for me, and, as per your request to clarify, I have explained why; it has partially to do with your case against me. To you that's tunnelling. This is at least the second time you are hiding behind the word "playstyle". Anything that seems amiss about your play you attribute to your personal playstyle, thinking it successfully defends against accusations. But, as promised, I will answer your question you wanted answered at the time of the agreement: Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:56 Tere wrote:On February 17 2015 05:17 Tere wrote:Out of interest, are you still intending to follow your Bridges strategy? (bold mine) On February 16 2015 07:50 Hier wrote:
Trfel:
It only takes one other player to declare his or her support for the model to get people to support its use. I know how Bridges works and how to use it to get a town victory. I will always abide by its rules, but if you later decide it's not worth it by all means abandon it. ^ Yes, I have always intended to use the Bridges method, after having pointed out that insubordination is part of its intentionally limiting design. Naturally, being the only person to oblige by its rules is meaningless, because the Bridges is meant to be a play method, not an explicit set of rules each individual is meant to follow.
Dude, you are my scumread, and I posted first in to put thoughts down having read the 15 pages or whatever it was. It's quite clear from my post above that my motivation is to engage most with my townreads initially. If you don't like that play, I really don't care to be honest.
I think you've been given ample opportunity to reach out and attempt to engage, I certainly feel I have reached out to you to bring you back in, and all I see for it is OMGUS, refusal to answer requestions, and blatent misrepresentation of other people.
I see you are also claiming you are going to hang on to your method regardless of any town consensus on perceived utility. The only reason I can see for this is to get out of doing any other reads. No likey.
You can try answering the other stuff now if you like. Including whether you are having fun. I asked it for a reason.
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I feel the need to post this for some reason.
![[image loading]](http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z408/majere616/GIFs/tumblr_llo4bzU2LP1qbbc6wo1_500.gif)
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EPT
