EPTWhatever should be available.
[M][N]Hammertime Mafia
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Whatever should be available. | ||
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*crosses fingers to get town* | ||
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Since you don't know me, I'll just say this, I'm actually a lady  Admittedly I have not heard of that phrase. I'm coming off two straight games as scum though and being relatively new here, I'd prefer to play town  But hopefully the gods won't deny me that chance  | ||
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There are a couple of other ladies in some of the other games here, but I'm the only one in this roster. | ||
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On January 26 2015 06:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I don't think there's any other girls that are active currently. I could be mistaken with some of the newbies. rsoultin in Student V, and 27NB just came off NYE. EDIT: Not sure if the latter is playing in anything anytime soon. | ||
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On January 26 2015 07:37 27ninjabunnies wrote: Hi, i see my name I'm gonna /obs this game. Went to PAX South, so I've been afk for a bit. Bunnies!!!!! <3 <3 <3 Hey lady, how goes it! I hope we're in another game together soon... ....although don't scumread me when I'm a VT next time  | ||
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On January 26 2015 07:45 Onegu wrote: Is game start at 8:30 est? 11:30pm my time....so I think 6:30 for you. | ||
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GOODNESS I RNGED TOWN THIS GO!!!!! YES YES YES YES YES..... Let's get to work everyone....who's with me? | ||
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Generally scum don't, or rather they are more apprehensive. | ||
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On January 26 2015 08:29 Eden1892 wrote: im goin wit qtpi bc it rimes and shes a gril LOL Eden....awwwwww. | ||
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It's been awhile! | ||
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On January 26 2015 08:35 Eden1892 wrote: qtpi aka half tha sky LOL...well you'd be the first person to not call me HTS | ||
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I've never played with him so if you have a meta point, please explain. | ||
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On January 26 2015 08:39 GlowingBear wrote: O hai! I'm pairing myself blue, do you know why? No blue roles in this game, so I am confused. | ||
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On January 26 2015 08:40 GlowingBear wrote: Neither did I What do you think I'm voting him for? My interpretation of his post is just the opposite of yours, which is why I'm confused now that I know you are voting him for lynch. | ||
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On January 26 2015 08:41 GlowingBear wrote: I meant "painting" Because I want to be the sky with you ❤ Awwwwww....*blushes* | ||
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Yeah I'm not understanding why he voted Toad to begin with. Though he's done this before to me, so not sure what to make of it at the moment. Could be banter, could be buddying. | ||
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On January 26 2015 08:46 Toadesstern wrote: I actually like his vote. Pretty sure mafia would try to be serious about it somehow à la "don't let this slide. This guy is shady because X / Y / Z! Pressure him" or just ignore it and do whatever their strategy is, be it lurk / be serious somewhere else. Instead he gets in the thread and votes me with a smiley and nothing else while typo'ing my name. I'd call him my sheriff if he didn't try to lynch me and if there wasn't this other typo with him saying he doesn't vote mafia. I just asked him if it was a joke vote and he just responded it was a lynch vote. | ||
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On January 26 2015 08:48 Onegu wrote: Wait is it a lynch vote or a mayor vote? He said lynch. On January 26 2015 08:40 GlowingBear wrote: For a lynch. I don't vote mafia because, well... Democracy. | ||
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On January 26 2015 08:56 GlowingBear wrote: OMG wait I forgot it is instant!!! ##Unvote ![[image loading]](http://i2.wp.com/hotnerdgirl.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/picard-facepalm1.jpg) | ||
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So far everyone seems leaning town so far, although Lian plopping vote #2 makes me cringe... | ||
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Do you still think he might be mafia? | ||
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On January 26 2015 09:22 liancourt wrote: what do you think of eden's announcement to lurk to make town easier to lynch him proposal? It came off as trolling/sarcasm, so I want to say null. | ||
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On January 26 2015 09:23 GlowingBear wrote: Isn't it odd that he didn't Unvote yet, and how do you think mafia would react to my vote on you? Think I know the answer to that, but I'll let him answer... | ||
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I am indicating it's a bit premature to be discussing that. | ||
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On January 26 2015 09:27 liancourt wrote: give me a reason to unvote. It's not like he has 3 votes on him so mafia can hammer Seriously? Not sure what time it is where you are (somewhere in Asia?) but if you go to bed, and the US players for whatever reason hammer him... If you don't have an honest scumread on him, don't keep your vote on him, simple as. | ||
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Good night everyone! | ||
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General sketch of where I stand as of when I went to bed, which was page 9, though I skimmed the rest: Town: Toad - posts are generally well thought out, and he's evaluating thoroughly without overexplaining from what I can tell. Leaning Town Liancourt - thoughts are more fleshed out (at least than they were in Void) and I can follow where he's going for now. Null: Onegu/VE/Robik - came in mainly for intros, though Onegu checked a few things, I see Onegu has a list post above, but will need to see more from him before I can move him anywhere. I noticed Robik voted me, but I see it was mainly a troll vote from what I could tell. Null - Palmar, as far as I can tell, yet to post TBD/under review - Eden - so far he looks good but I see at least one is scumreading him based on meta. The lurkiness comments appear to be trolling to me. At face value, he's town, but I may need to check his scum game from NYE Party and see if there are any parallels. Scum - GlowingBear (massive case to follow) | ||
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He might have that big shiny post he's using to take notes, but are those notes informative or misleading? There is a difference between trying to win the game, and trying to win the game as town. Upon review, I feel there are several areas where he's taking things out of context. Looked at his read on Onegu. Several problems with it (both 1st and 2nd mindnotes): On January 26 2015 11:20 GlowingBear wrote: 2. Onegu + Show Spoiler + I don't like this post + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=6#102 This actually struck me as a reactionary post. This reaction is actually null as it could have come from either alignment. The other problem is that looking at Onegu's entire filter, his intention may not have been to analyse data, as he even said he was off to watch the pro bowl. If he didn't contribute much/return soon at that point enough a scumread would be in order. But now? Too early. On January 26 2015 11:20 GlowingBear wrote:I also don't like this post of his + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=7#127 because he just says to me that the vote is horrible and that the opening is null. See, he is just commenting: he doesn't say why that post can come from both alignments, he doesn't try to understand my reasoning why reading Toad as scum and he doesn't have any conclusion on my attitude. He just... comments. This is patently false. On page 7 of the thread, Onegu has two comments directly after this post (which GB clearly ignored) as follows: On January 26 2015 08:48 Onegu wrote: Wait is it a lynch vote or a mayor vote? On January 26 2015 08:48 Onegu wrote: I'm confused... These quotes indicate that Onegu is at least trying to understand the reasoning, and he certainly cannot make a conclusion when he's trying to figure out which type of vote it was. That's completely unreasonable. On January 26 2015 11:20 GlowingBear wrote:Again, Onegu just comments with a single "lol" + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=7#139. This is bad. Null at best, reactionary, and could have come from either alignment. Saying this is bad? I mean, GB doesn't even say why "this is bad" in his notes. Second let's approach GB's read on me. This may sound OMGUS-y however, I will take another PBPA on where the faults are and where again he's taking things out of context. On January 26 2015 11:20 GlowingBear wrote: 9. Half the Sky + Show Spoiler + I hate this post + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=5#98 The biggest issue here (and Liancourt has already called him out on it I see) is that I had already disclaimed my read as a weak read based on one post AND it was in direct response to a question from Toad. GB attempts to paint this as a general townread however, and even worse over, COMPARES THIS TO THE MORE BROAD GAMEPLAY OF ARTANIS AND ALAKASLAM, WHICH -- UH HELLO -- ARE GOING TO BE BASED OFF MORE THAN ONE POST. (Furthermore I have never played with Artanis in any game, but that's besides the point.) Basically he's comparing apples to oranges here. It's one thing for GB to say my read is inaccurate, and that wouldn't be cause to scumread him, but it's the apples to oranges comparison that makes this read particularly poor and reveals the likely intention behind it. Now to the second part of GB's read on me, and why it is misleading. On January 26 2015 11:20 GlowingBear wrote: INCONSISTENCY ALERT!!!! Say everyone but lian is leaning town here + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=7#140 but still haven't tried to figure out lian's alignment by pushing him yet. BUT thinks my entrance is horrible and puts suspicions on me here + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=7#125 Where did those suspicions go? Weird. To figure out whether I'm pushing someone, that would take evaluating my filter and the posts in the thread surrounding this post. If a potential scumread (in my case, Lian) answers a question, then my concern would be considered resolved. On page 8, not only does Lian answer my initial question but I actually DO followup and GB has completely ignored this. He wouldn't have missed it comparing my original post and looking for pushes, which has me conclude that his read is intentionally misleading. The other problem with his second part again, is twofold: 1) If you suspect a scumread and that scumread is in the thread with you, the townie thing to do would be to interact with that person (in this case GB should have asked why I thought his first post was a townread) and resolve the issue before concluding a scumread. He doesn't do this with me, but... 2) The irony is that when I question GB's entrance, I DO interact with him and give him the chance to explain himself. On January 26 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote: My interpretation of his post is just the opposite of yours, which is why I'm confused now that I know you are voting him for lynch. On January 26 2015 08:54 Half the Sky wrote: Can either of you or GB explain why Toad is mafia? Because quite frankly I don't, and I've not played with him before, so I have no memos on meta here. From pages 6-8 we (Onegu and myself) question whether it's a joke or lynch followed by these questions. The irony is that GB removed the vote and that he was joking. That should have answered where those suspicions went. ------------------------------------------------------ Finally if you look, you will see GB having FOUR scumreads. Note that there are only two people in this game that can be scum. The other issue is that this is an instant lynch game, and where there'd be some re-evaluation of these if votes pile on someone at any given point in this day phase. This gives credence to the theory that GB is stretching some reads so that he can cover himself if he needs to hammer anyone on that list. If he's scum, it wouldn't matter to him who he could hammer, just that someone on that list IS hammered so it would be an attempt at read progression, regardless of how poor, controversial or out of context the read is. I have noticed reads on Eden, Lian and Robik. The one on Lian is fair, Eden appears to be meta, so I cannot pass judgement on the Eden read until I look more closely at him. Robik appears to be trolling and I could go either way with a null or a scum read depending on how you interpret Robik's behaviour. (Disclaimer: I have never played with Robik, so I am disregarding meta.) But overall, this looks like a scum GB looking to hedge his bets given the game's setup. And as such, that's where I'll park my vote at this time. ##unvote ##vote GlowingBear | ||
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1 Massive note/"giant shiny posts" should be examined for inaccuracies or being misleading 2 The game setup needs to be considered given the list of scumreads (instant lynch) 3 GB has taken several points out of context on two reads which are cause for concern given #2. I try to examine how a true townie would have examined the information. | ||
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On January 26 2015 22:40 GlowingBear wrote: Wow this thread is I slow. Let's hammer Robik, please. Why? I'd like either of you or Palmar to sell your case to me, a player who: 1 Has never played with Robik/not familiar with his meta 2 Sees that Robik is to be policy voted here 3 Sees little/no explanation of why Robik is being voted 4 Has a fairly substantial case (and a vote for that matter) on you. Ah, and speaking of #3, are you going to respond to my case on you or at least help resolve the issues there? Another conference call at work, but I'll touch base. | ||
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If you are taking him out based on meta, I need you to explain. | ||
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If you're convinced he's mafia (for whatever reason), perhaps you too should be voting him. Maybe elaborate on a scum GB meta if you can? | ||
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VE, same for you when you appear in thread. | ||
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On January 26 2015 23:48 Onegu wrote: Robik is reminding me of Cora in BttB just shit in the thread and flip town after I tunneled him all game... So between this and GB's meta view I have two opposing points on Robik's meta. This is exactly why I gave a null read on his behaviour. But he does need to at least defend himself against GB when he can, and provide reads. | ||
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I was pretty sure town Palmar is someone who tries to solve the game. Or does he throw sarcastic remarks D1 as well? | ||
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On January 26 2015 23:53 Onegu wrote: Can someone link me a game GB rolled scum The database shall be our friend... Leaving you with this...another call in 2 minutes here... Glowing Bear meta - click to open: + Show Spoiler [GlowingBear] + VI Titanic Mini Mafia: The Return of MSPaint Town Vanilla Killed Night 3 Newbie Mini Mafia LVI Town Vanilla Town Survived Day 5 Team Melee Mini Mafia V: Newbies and Vets Town Parity Cop Survived Day 2 Newbie Mini Mafia LVII Town Vanilla Lynched Day 3 Arnie got his gun mafia. Mafia Lawyer Survived Day 1 Guilty Mini Mafia Town Mason Killed Night 2 Mission Mini Mafia Mafia Mission Mafia Survived Day 5 TL Mafia LXVIII: Fanfic Crossover Edition Mafia Roleblocker Survived Day 3 2p2 Vanilla Werewolf 13er Town Vanilla Killed Night 1 Zesty Italian Dressing Micro Mafia Third Party Jester Endgamed Day 1 Avogadros Number Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 3 Fantasy Football Mafia Mini 2 Town Vanilla Survived Day 2 Hearthstone Mafia Town KelThuzad Killed Night 1 V Titanic Mini Mafia: A Game of Four Hours Mafia Janitor Survived Night 2 Russia Today Town Nosy Neighbor Lynched Day 1 | ||
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Fanfic Crossover, large normal, this is where GB seems to go more substantial with some of his explanations and I'm getting more hesitant to give him a pass on meta. Some of these explanations might hold a parallel to the way he explains things here, examples: On September 16 2014 02:52 GlowingBear wrote: Haven't read the whole thread because I was working when the thread boomed. But for what I've read, this is totally town Robik. I don't know VE's meta but he seems too passive, saying he is voting palmar but he is not sure. I don't like this. If he is not sure he should be searching for other possibilities, other scummy posts. There is only three options: you think someone is town, you think someone is scum, or you have no idea. You vote for the ones you think could be mafia, you discuss with the ones you think is town, and you inquire null reads. He is not inquiring palmar, he is freely voting on him. On September 16 2014 23:25 GlowingBear wrote: Robik's tone completely changed over the pages, marv. He was at least scum hunting but then he started just defending himself and calling people bad over nothing, and left the thread. This is how he plays as scum. I showed my motives right after the vote. I can't stand playing with Robik anymore, he really thinks he is better than he actually is On September 16 2014 23:31 GlowingBear wrote: "You're bad because your read is bad. I think this guy is mafia because *okay reasoning*" = town Robik "You're bad because you're bad. I think this guy is mafia because he called him Harry Potter instead of his actual nickname. LOL u calling me mafia? You guys suck only for that I'm getting out of the thread because I'm pissed off" = scum Robik He can call people bad anytime, that's Robik. Calling people bad for nothing and not building a good scum hunt, that's scum Robik. His gameplay started as town and got scum, so I voted him I realise he's not a native English speaker though, and neither am I for that matter, so I can understand if something is getting lost in translation. But the Fanfic game is giving me pause... Looking through some of the others... | ||
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On January 27 2015 00:09 VisceraEyes wrote: I really really dislike GB's "mind-dumps" or whatever. Like - it just reeks of "Hey guys look at how productive I am! I mean I've got notes on EVERY PLAYER here!" ...and assuming you've played with GB more, esp as scum....he appears to have had LOADS more those in his scum games I'm reading through so far. | ||
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On January 27 2015 00:08 GlowingBear wrote: Because it's Robik. Getting rid of him is always a win Guess what? Onegu counterpointed you on meta. Now, you have to further substantiate your push on him. Ah, and what of my case on you? Unless you are still at the gym of course. | ||
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What town games (aside from Fantasy Football) have you read? | ||
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On August 19 2014 13:11 GlowingBear wrote: I've just caught up and I couldn't change my mind regarding Robik. He's bringing nothing to the table but his rudeness. I can't tell with precision who Robik thinks is scum and who he thinks is town. Only a "feel" that I'm mafia. I don't get why are you scumreading me because of that. Tell me what are you seeing scum on me and explain it so I can clarify myself. I really don't understand it. I also don't like geript's huge lurk and then opening with a huge scumpile with only quotations without in depth explanation. What do you think of Robik? On August 19 2014 01:32 GlowingBear wrote: I'm not considering it itself. He is lurking and dropping one liners and I don't find that townie, like I wouldn't regarding any player. After realising that, I think town Robik is much more capable of contributing than that. So, both these things together makes my second argument against him. | ||
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Continuing to evaluating other people... | ||
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My history with Eden, only one game with him and I was modkilled from that game D2, he was scum that game. He seemed like he was putting effort in that game and I had incorrectly townread him. This game page 1 of filter - mostly sarcastic one-liners, going to say null for now on that part alone. On January 26 2015 10:05 Eden1892 wrote: liancourt is aggressively null. He's my kill right now, because I'm actually a bureaucrat tasked with the charge of increasing Toad Town's literacy rate at all costs, and I fear he may be illiterate. Robik, Palmar and VisceraEyes are confirmed mafia until they do something too, so now I've already decided the first 4 days of Lynchmas. Joy! These reads could be interpreted as either more sarcasm or lousy reasons to read people...I am leaning towards sarcasm. Reading through page 4...a lot of drunk posting. Ugh. | ||
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On January 27 2015 00:39 GlowingBear wrote: VE, I've said pre-game I was going to try something new. This is what in trying. If you're scumreading me based on a post where I post one liners about people that said ANYTHING in the thread, you're scum For the fourth time, please respond to my accusations. I am scumreading you disregarding meta, if you are trying something new, then I assume you can post a defence at face value. | ||
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On January 27 2015 00:44 GlowingBear wrote: 9. Half the Sky + Show Spoiler + I hate this post + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=5#98 INCONSISTENCY ALERT!!!! Say everyone but lian is leaning town here + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=7#140 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=7#125 Where did those suspicions go? Weird. HTS, can you address to these points? I already had done so in my case, in fact doing so exposed the problems in your case (page 14). | ||
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On January 27 2015 00:45 GlowingBear wrote: I find boring responding to your accusations because I'm town and it makes those accusations completely false. Anyway, gonna do this now. If you're town, then you will convince me why my thinking is off. Saying you're town because you're town will get you absolutely nowhere in my books. | ||
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*glares at Palmar* (responding to GB next...) | ||
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On January 27 2015 01:08 GlowingBear wrote: Those post are him faking putting thoughts on what kind of vote that was. But it went to no conclusion. Are we reading the same thing? I already said in the case he was asking a question and that it was unreasonable to assume he could even make a conclusion. (operative in blue) How do you know for absolute sure he was faking it? On January 26 2015 14:56 Half the Sky wrote: This is patently false. On page 7 of the thread, Onegu has two comments directly after this post (which GB clearly ignored) as follows: These quotes indicate that Onegu is at least trying to understand the reasoning, and he certainly cannot make a conclusion when he's trying to figure out which type of vote it was. That's completely unreasonable. On January 27 2015 01:08 GlowingBear wrote: A question here: why my vote was scummy and Robik's probably town trolling? Because Robik explicitly said he was voting me for taking Holyflare's spot. It is in his filter, so I know. On January 27 2015 01:08 GlowingBear wrote: How can you still say everybody was leaning town when you had suspicions on me? How can you suddenly think I'm mafia for that? I already said they disappeared when you removed the initial Toad vote. I scumread you again when I examined your notes. On January 27 2015 01:08 GlowingBear wrote: You've played once with me and you are trying to push meta reads. You're analysing last games of mine. Yet you disregard Robik's meta saying that "you haven't played with him yet". Well, you could do what you're doing with me now. Why the double standards? Are you taking things out of context again? Onegu is checking my read, and that's why I am looking into meta. He is contesting you are not scum based on meta. I am looking at your notes and trying to compare that to parts in your prior games. My initial case on you WAS NOT BASED ON META. Onegu is using meta to defend you. I am resolving that. (Not finished yet...) | ||
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On January 27 2015 01:44 Palmar wrote: Once I played a game where I made a case on myself on day 1. I was town. I have not made a case on myself on day 1. What is your conclusion? Making a case on yourself D1 is not the point, the point is based on the little I know of you I'd expect you to be contributing more one way or another. Based on that, a slight scumread until I see more from you. I know absolutely zero on Robik, zero on VE, zero on Onegu, so I have to take them completely at face value. | ||
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On January 27 2015 01:55 IAmRobik wrote: If you're town this game, kindly see that you don't fucking /in any game that i ever play in moving forward. I'm tired of your bullshit. you think I'm mafia every fucking game. I don't like what GB quoted above either, but Robik, when I examined GB's meta, he mentioned you a lot particularly when he was scum. Could this not have been part of his strategy? | ||
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On January 27 2015 02:05 Palmar wrote: Sometimes I contribute, sometimes I don't. The little you know is but one of the many alternative universes I have been a part of. Are you trying to tell me that you are unreadable? | ||
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On January 27 2015 02:10 Palmar wrote: Quite the opposite, I am just helping you understand that your current methods are unlikely to yield any reliable results! I am here to help. Reliable results on you or any of my own reads on anyone here? I disregard meta on people I've not played with. You know I'm relatively new here. What do you think I should be doing? For someone like yourself if what you say is true (you have no meta/alternate ways of playing), then why at this point, if I take you at face value, should I not scumread you for not solving the game at this point, or other relatively straightforward reasons I can justify? | ||
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Top of the charts by a country mile. I'll be in touch after dinner. | ||
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On January 27 2015 02:20 Eden1892 wrote: Also anyone whining about drunk posts but not reading and commenting on the big post with reads that came after it is a donkey and should be ashamed. I had gotten to page 4 of your filter and I got sidetracked admittedly. Which is why I am not updating my read on you quite yet. Now I really need to leave the office. | ||
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On January 27 2015 02:20 Eden1892 wrote: Other updates: Half the Sky is clearly town. I feel that Robik and VisceraEyes are probably town for tilting, Tilting means....? | ||
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On January 27 2015 03:34 GlowingBear wrote: Robik I've done a lot already. I've clearly answered half the sky case when I got home. WTF. And I had a followup to that. Because I have demonstrated yet again that you are taking things out of context. Furthermore if you are town, you actually need to show signs of solving the game. I don't see an alternative from you. Defensive posts are understandable but you need to do more than that. | ||
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On January 27 2015 02:49 Eden1892 wrote: ew gross my filter is 5 whole pages long that's long enough to be policy townread. that sucks where did liancourt go? Liancourt should have posted a little more today, but was asleep likely at the time you posted...should be up in another 3-4 hours...probably will be posting then if someone isn't hammered by then. | ||
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On January 26 2015 13:04 Eden1892 wrote: I also feel like GlowingBear was townie but I don't remember why. Maybe I'll know when I reread. On January 27 2015 02:40 Eden1892 wrote: Huh, I forgot about that. Good observation. GB where did the mind dumps go? On January 27 2015 02:55 Eden1892 wrote: Robik if I help you lynch GlowingBear can we lynch liancourt next? If you thought GB had it out for you, just read liancourt's filter, like half of it is targeted at me and it's mostly misinterpretations On January 27 2015 03:15 Eden1892 wrote: obviously i'm not townreading you anymore...??? (the last quote was in response to GB) Eden I cannot follow your thought process on GB, these are the only quotes I could find of you on him. So tell me why you townread him and then scumread GlowingBear. | ||
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On January 27 2015 03:48 Toadesstern wrote: Can you compare my list to yours HTS and tell me where the differences are?
I know you don't agree with my read on GB. But what about the bottom part of my list? Especially considering that Eden and lian being mafia together makes no sense whatsoever I'd like to get some input on that. If I had to rank these: You and VE appear to be town based on everything I'm reading from both of you. Robik is null leaning town. Onegu is still null but may be moved down if I don't see more from him (assuming it's still early for the US people). Palmar is null leaning scum for his nonsensical posts, even if I find them amusing at times. GlowingBear is definitely scum. Under review: Eden - post on page four looks okay, but I don't know why he's jumping on the GB train all of a sudden. Just questioned him on that. Liancourt - should be posting, if I don't see more from him in a few hours, he'll be moved up my lynch list. | ||
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On January 27 2015 03:54 Toadesstern wrote: let's vote liancout, he never had a vote on him ##vote liancourt Pressure vote? I am keeping my vote on GB until he gets back to me... | ||
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On January 27 2015 03:53 Toadesstern wrote: VE has two votes in that. I believe he voted GB first, and then switched to Palmar, but since has said that he's okay with a GB lynch. So I think VE and GB two votes apiece. | ||
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On January 27 2015 03:54 Toadesstern wrote: let's vote liancout, he never had a vote on him ##vote liancourt Lian is in Korea AFAIK. I'd say give another 4h. If he doesn't do jack all, then I think a pressure vote is appropriate then. | ||
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I looked at Lian and Eden exchange. Highly doubt both are scum, since double bussing is unlikely D1. Lian had one good post that drove discussion (the unreadable post on you) but after that Lian's meta or a trait is that when he votes someone he generally is confident in his reads to the point he will not explain them. Which is part of the problem here. He is scumreading Eden on meta for what I can tell, but I don't like that because some of us here have not played with Eden, and he doesn't seem to be pushing him except questioning the OMGUS part. If one of the two were scum, and if I had to make a bet based on what I'm reading so far, I'd say Lian over Eden for scum, but unlikely both. | ||
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"......but after that, a lot of one-liners." | ||
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On January 27 2015 03:47 Palmar wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UZYn89h.png) Palmar, again, amusing, but if you want to criticise or even poke fun at how I'm playing the game, why don't you just say so exactly what you think I'm doing wrong? | ||
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On January 27 2015 04:11 Toadesstern wrote: Is he usually the kind of guy that locks on his target and just goes at it? Yes. Liancourt's town play in Carol (he was the veteran in that game) was a PERFECT example of this. He was criticised for not being convincing, he pissed away 4 cycles yelling at people his reads, particularly to lynch Holyflare but people ignored him. He was right but failed to be convincing. | ||
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But what has been consistent across all metas I've seen is the lockdown on a singular target. And his confidence about it. | ||
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I see it used often, but I don't know what it means with respect to this game. | ||
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Perspective please. | ||
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I am also aware there are two scum. GB is and has been out of thread, and if he returns when I'm in thread, I will continue pushing him. Eden, I know what you are trying to say, I'm not discouraging the questions, but am wary of anyone collapsing on him. The lead should be explored. If he wakes up and ignores them again, then I think voting him will be justified. | ||
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What are your thoughts on everyone else in the thread? | ||
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On January 27 2015 06:04 IAmRobik wrote: I don't have any, but I will put everyone who votes GB on my "do not lynch list" for d2 I believe you are experienced enough to realise that scum can take advantage of a townie wagon to vote another townie out (or bus too, but unlikely in this setup). What if, in the unlikely but still possible event, that GB is town? | ||
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On January 27 2015 07:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Friendly reminder that editing is banned. Completely my fault with the quote box edits. It won't happen again. | ||
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On January 27 2015 07:15 Toadesstern wrote: can someone restate the things that make GB mafia that don't boil down to "he's bad"? I don't care about him being wrong with what he does. I want to see why doing what's wrong is more beneficial for him as mafia than as a townie. Because I still only see him as the easy mislynch to be honest. My original case is on page 14. My followup was on page 19. In both posts, my issue with GB is that: 1 He is intentionally taking things out of context. The fact that he did this in two posts solidifies my feelings about him. On page 19, he is making a serious stretch on Onegu's posts. I further illustrate the point about him thinking I am scumreading him on meta when the opposite is true. 2 On page 14, my issue with him was that he did not interact with me despite seeing something that he found scummy about me. As town he should directly try to interact with me (or any potential scumread) and resolve an issue prior to waiting and finding an excuse to scumread me. | ||
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On January 27 2015 07:18 Eden1892 wrote: I can't, I was just sheeping. Pop quiz time. Who can name something of relevance that Onegu has done this game? The answer key is below, please don't peek until y [spoiler] At this point in time, he needs to pick it up. I remember the list post but that's about it. | ||
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Not those words per se, but something of interest to driving discussion in the game. On January 27 2015 04:10 Palmar wrote: Announcement: I am considering releasing the first read I have this game tonight. Stay tuned! Unless it was that damned troll vote on Toad. | ||
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On January 27 2015 07:32 Half the Sky wrote: 2 On page 14, my issue with him was that he did not interact with me despite seeing something that he found scummy about me. As town he should directly try to interact with me (or any potential scumread) and resolve an issue prior to waiting and finding an excuse to scumread me. Also Toad, I realised I forgot one key sentence in here - both GB and I were in the thread AT THE SAME TIME and even responding to each other at that. That's what makes the lack of interaction a scumlike behaviour. | ||
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On January 27 2015 07:38 IAmRobik wrote: THIS POST IS FOR PALMAR'S EYES ONLY: + Show Spoiler + Do you think it's scummier or townier for people to get frustrated with you? (HTS/Toad) I realise that Palmar is trying to be amusing, and I appreciate him having a laugh about things, but we're on page 28 of this thread now... | ||
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On January 27 2015 07:44 Toadesstern wrote: That being said, I have to admit that while I did read GlowinBears spoilers I was too lazy to actually click the links inside the spoilers inside the spoilers (wtf...) and went just over it like "ya ya fine" most of the time. I re-read the case from HTS on page 14 though and like some of the points more now that I've checked the links as well. Gimme some time for that. I'd appreciate a second opinion on my points there (aside from GB, who will obviously be biased). My wariness of these long posts and putting shit out of context comes from my experience in my last large normal game, where Holyflare tried to make a massive post on his scumreads and people bought it just because it was a massive "shiny" post. He was mafia leader in that game. So minding that, I'll admit I checked each individual post in relation to the filter and to the thread. | ||
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It is almost 9am in Korea. Paging Liancourt to this thread. I have another hour or so in thread before bed, so let's see what I can do... | ||
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His posts are showing a townie feel through page 1 of his filter. I cannot comment on the meta posts regarding Palmar as I have not played with either of them. I personally don't like Palmar's trolling, but I don't know how he should be interacting with VE. That said, VE clearly has a reason for scumreading him as he has been pushing Palmar for 3 pages of his filter, so that should be indicative of a more prolonged town push. Whether it's accurate or not is another issue. I like this post from VE not so much because he has the same scumread as I do, but because he's calling out an inconsistency in his target's behaviour. On January 27 2015 02:36 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm still relatively fine with a GB lynch. I still don't like his "mind dumps" and he warned us he'd be doing them all game and now that he's been called out on it they've stopped. Like, it all just stinks of trying to APPEAR to be doing things. I see VE is annoyed with Toad's comments on Palmar but I have interpreted those as him disputing the read, saying he's just reading too much into things. Overall generally a good impression on VE. VE, I am curious to see whether your reads on GB, Eden have changed or even Liancourt at this point. | ||
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Mostly trolling until page 3 of his filter. I'm also going to say leaning town on him as well. I like how he tries to tackle Palmar's trolling and I especially liked this post from him going through point by point his reservation on GB. On January 27 2015 07:35 IAmRobik wrote: See the thing is -- the first sentence is probably valid, but a townie recognizes that my posting has changed since he made that statement and he hasn't adjusted his read, which is scummy, not "bad". Well bad too. Plus, he just played a game with me where I was the cop and didn't play d1 because of New Years and became way more active after that and he tried to meta read me as mafia based off of me playing similarly to how i played as the cop, but i couldn't be the cop since there are no roles thus i have to be mafia. DAFUQ KINDA READ IS THAT. Especially since I was town and ended up with a 30+ page filter anyway, 3rd highest in the game, having lived 2 days shorter than total game time. My only reservation is that he should be providing more of his reads (like say on VE, Onegu, etc) but otherwise, he seems okay. Leaning town. | ||
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Town: Toad, with leans on VE, Robik, and at this point Eden. Not lynching any of these four today. Null: Onegu Null leaning scum: Liancourt Scum: GlowingBear (preferred lynch), Palmar | ||
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On January 27 2015 09:45 IAmRobik wrote: I don't wanna read VE because it bothers me that he is TRing me. We never get along as T/T. I gave my read on Onegu. I don't have reads on other people, but have offered free town reads for people voting for GB. So you can be town too. I think...if you're voting GB still I am. Top lynch preference. | ||
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Still null on Onegu. His list post was one-liners admittedly, would like to see more from him, but he could be a low-content player so I'm not sure where to judge that. If GB flips scum, I'd say it's unlikely that Onegu would be scum as he was grossly misrepresented, and highly unlikely in this setup that he would be bussed. I don't like associative reads, but it's something to consider on my end given my scumread on GB. Speaking of GB, he hasn't returned to thread yet since my last followup. Liancourt, I would like to see resolve the issues previously cited, I hope it gets done when I'm asleep. Palmar's lack of reads, even amidst the trolling, is getting more annoying by the second. We're on page 30 Palmar, get with the program please. But yes, GlowingBear is my top lynch, and if he is offed when I wake up, I am fairly confident I'll wake up to one less scum in this game. Good night everyone <3 | ||
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On January 27 2015 09:45 IAmRobik wrote: I don't wanna read VE because it bothers me that he is TRing me. We never get along as T/T. I gave my read on Onegu. I don't have reads on other people, but have offered free town reads for people voting for GB. So you can be town too. I think...if you're voting GB still How is the above (bolded) alignment indicative? | ||
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Took about 10m to skim through. Will post my initial impressions before I jet for work. I'll look a little harder into Liancourt's posting, but I have some thoughts and some criticisms. This post from Lian is making me reconsider a scum read on him. Here's why: On January 27 2015 13:51 liancourt wrote: @toad I know you're trying to be the thread mayor and all, but I really expected HF/marv/koshi level play from you, but I'm somewhat disappointed...maybe I had high expectations of you or maybe you're holding back for some reason. It's like you're playing politics and moderating everything instead of pointing fingers and pushing things hard. How many scumreads does Toad have right now? From what I can tell, zero. This part of Lian's post is making me think that what if a (potential) mafia Toad could cruise on being so widely townread? It doesn't look likely at this point, but the fact that it made me think, and it shows that Lian has made some broad observation of a player relative to the entire game, despite Toad himself only having a three page filter. I took a look at Toad's filter, and he seems to be in that information gathering/analysing phase of scumhunting, but if I don't see him pushing something/someone soon, I might just start to wonder. His first vote was on Liancourt on what I believed to be a pressure vote and then he unvoted. Don't get me wrong, I'm still reading Toad as town, but this was a very provocative post by Lian and makes me think he's town for this observation. At the very least, I might actually move him upwards from my scumpile. | ||
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That to me is a red flag. I'll have to look into this more. | ||
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Folks, moderator actions are irrelevant to someone's alignment. I have seen scum players get warned, my scum teammate from Newbie LX was warned himself, and a second teammate of mine was replaced and given a ban. Do not assume someone's alignment just because of a moderator's action. Just my input there. | ||
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On January 27 2015 11:28 GlowingBear wrote: ... People are saying my early reads are bad. Like. Seriously. Point out specific problems on those reads at that time. Robik I was out the entire day and if you think it's alignment indicative you should check my most recent town games. My suspicions on you weren't because you were afk. My suspicions on you were because you were actively following the thread but no posting until people called you out. Then I asked for a read and you simply denied to do ("haven't read the thread", "who the fuck is this guy"). You're simply denying information here. Why not reading important things and contribute instead of just lurk? I didn't updated my read on you because I was outside all they long, not actually reading the thread. C'mon. And if anyone here doesn't understand why this is scummy, you can lynch me because I can't convince you with any other obvious arguments and I just rather die than giving me the trouble to persuade you GlowingBear, I cannot speak for others' reads, but you keep ignoring my posts. I posted a followup on page 19 after you responded. Why do you mention others but not me? I am not just saying your reads are bad, I am demonstrating that you have a mafia agenda. I am accusing you of having a mafia agenda. If you are town, you will resolve this. I don't like how you are posting right now in general, nevermind you ignoring me in this game, and I'd argue that aside from Robik, I am the biggest proponent of your lynch. Even if I'm not in the thread because of time difference, you should be resolving the posts from the biggest proponents of your lynch. I have other scumreads as well, but I have my reasons for why you are top of my list. So if you're town, you're going to either defend yourself AND show us that you are operating on a town agenda, because right now I'm not seeing it. | ||
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I am going to think the former for now. On January 27 2015 11:13 liancourt wrote: The part where you HARD defend toad kinda looks familiar to a certain game I played with you... HARD defending your partner lala. There is literally no reason for town to HARD defend another town this detailed. Not sure if toad is his partner yet, but I'll keep my eyes open. Town should be scum hunting not hard defending other players. Everyone who has ever played mafia knows it's less stressful to call someone town than to call someone mafia. And eden here is doing the same thing calling me scum because I caught him and he is OMGUSing me like he did in new years. Another tone post to scumread someone? No, Liancourt, just, no. Just stop please. Seriously, Liancourt I'm not sure I agree with this post at all, let alone scumreading Eden for it. In the first quote you have posted, Eden is not defending Toad per se, but rather the thought process by which he would have gone through in his actions. He's highlighting the rationale for Toad's behaviour. He IS scumhunting by trying to reason his behaviour from both a town and scum perspective in his read. That might not be YOUR style of scumhunting, but it is A LEGIT way of scumhunting. In your second quote, there is absolutely no comparison. That quote from NYE Party Mafia doesn't even talk about rationale for behaviour, it's a bunch of associative scumreads based on what is a contorted vote count analysis. (I say contorted because Eden was scum.) That's a completely different type of argument that Eden is making under a very different situation. "Hard defending" someone is all relative, you need to look harder at the content, and not just the tone. Eden can sound intense whether he's town or mafia, but there's a VERY distinct difference between the two paragraphs you are using to scumread him. | ||
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On January 27 2015 14:58 Eden1892 wrote: but not about toad. just about tr'ing liancourt toad could still possibly be mafia i guess but idt it's worth exploring d1. let's get onegu instead ya? Onegu is a possibility, but I need to think twice as to why GlowingBear would pull a poor read on him. Give me a few hours to cook on this. | ||
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1 GB 2 Onegu 3 Liancourt Definitely willing to consolidate on either 1 or 2. | ||
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On January 27 2015 23:31 Palmar wrote: Kill it with fire! You heard him everyone - two more votes on GlowingBear please. I already voted him, can't do it again. Damn Palmar, I think you might have just nailed it. The reasoning is there anyways. (And finally, thanks for getting on track <3) 100% I had Onegu as #2 based on his relative lack of content, but still something wasn't sitting right with the fact GB tried to take his stuff out of context. They couldn't both be scum. With only 2 scum it wasn't making sense. Still was that much sure of GB though. Going to double check the rest of Lian's exchange and yours with Toad. But at first glance I can see the problematic wording with his posts. | ||
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On January 27 2015 23:41 Palmar wrote: Actually for now ##vote Toadesstern Die scum. Alright, let me check the exchanges then. | ||
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On January 27 2015 18:22 Toadesstern wrote: if you take out my name from that list those other three have been the ones I want to lynch every since the last... 24 hours? ... what does that tell us about what you should be thinking about me? Deductive reasoning is a strategy that works in a situation closer to mylo/lylo. Not D1. I also don't like this quote because he is discouraging Palmar from thinking for himself. | ||
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On January 27 2015 19:33 Toadesstern wrote: I've never done that as mafia ever. I'm not even sure if "against GB" means "against GB lynch" or "against GB (being town)" with the topic being what it is recently. And in this he's blatantly avoiding the question. I also see where Palmar is discussing the waffling. I'm going to check Toad's filter from the beginning of D1 now, just looked harder into his posts after I left for work. The posts after I left for work, they are all pretty bad. | ||
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On January 27 2015 19:22 Toadesstern wrote: Take a step back and look at it from my pov. I townread GB quite heavily 36~48 hours ago. I'm not just going to push that all mentally away and be like "well duh, guy has to be mafia". It's obviously still popping up in the back of my head and making me wonder where I went wrong because I have to figure this out... That just reflects my general idea that I'd like to postpone decisions like that for a day and see what happens, thus saying he's only the third for me despite all that. I do not like how either of you and GB are disregarding the mechanics of this game. This is an instant lynch game. Postponing decisions is one thing in a normal 48h day cycle game, but this tells me you are hoping to delay it enough so that some easier lynch or person is targetted instead of whom actually should be targetted. | ||
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On January 27 2015 21:54 GlowingBear wrote: HTS I'm not ignoring your posts, I'm just not reading a lot from the thread yet. Sometimes I get a random page and see what's going on. That's all. You're calling me mafia for things that doesn't make me mafia. You're too tunnelled. Yes I am calling you scum for scum like behaviour. I maintain my previous position from page 19, you have not resolved it. This is the first time I have ever played that I am tunnelled on any player. I generally don't tunnel people in any of my games. There is a reason I'm collapsing on you, and you are still ignoring it. Combine that with the fact you appear to be evasive and/or disinterested in solving the game, and I'm just becoming even more eager to have you gone. | ||
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On January 28 2015 00:15 Palmar wrote: HTS you are weird and you say things that make little sense. I like you. Is this sarcastic? (Honest question.) If you're being serious, I'll probably ask you a bit more post-game. | ||
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*shrug* | ||
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On January 28 2015 00:33 Palmar wrote: Kill GB i'm not particularly fussed which one dies. Toad is just the better lynch. Fair play. I'll admit up front I'm 99% sure on GB, but after filter diving him again, Toad is looking bad enough that if there's consensus, I will switch. We need consensus on either one of these. Eden, VE, Robik, I'm looking at you three - well Robik IS voting GB - but some feedback on Toad would be appreciated. | ||
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On January 28 2015 00:43 Half the Sky wrote: Eden, VE, Robik, I'm looking at you three - well Robik IS voting GB - but some feedback on Toad would be appreciated. | ||
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On January 27 2015 23:32 Palmar wrote: toad and glowingbear, you can just concede now, if you want to. GlowingBear, you realise I'm not the only one scumreading you, right? Oh wait, is that a scum I see giving up? | ||
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I'll be back <3 | ||
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On January 28 2015 01:23 GlowingBear wrote: Yeah, that is a scum giving up. Gg well played HAMMER HIM NOW. HAMMER HIM NOW. HAMMER HIM NOW. Can we get a baby seal with that, GB? <3 | ||
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On January 28 2015 01:23 Palmar wrote: Like I am going to policy hammer you just for that shit. I just want you alive for long enough to acknowledge your badness. WHAT?!?!?!?! I thought he already did? Why aren't we taking out a confirmed scummer? Palmar you are breaking my heart | ||
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HAMMER GLOWINGBEAR NOW. Off for my run. Marathon training for the win...huzzah! | ||
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On January 28 2015 01:25 Palmar wrote: Chill I will, I'm just ranting here. Sorry I get a little overenthused when I catch scum. <3 Palmar. | ||
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On January 28 2015 01:27 Palmar wrote: btw do we actually have 4 votes on him? Might need to wait for the Americans. You would be vote #3. | ||
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On January 28 2015 02:40 GlowingBear wrote: I want every person that is scumreading me to tell me what you're doing so. I can see only one possible trait and that one is being afk. I have no fucking idea why you want to lynch me. How long is this going to take me to answer? 1 You took Onegu out of context in a misleading way (pages 14 and 19 of thread) 2 You took me out of context in a misleading way, the read on Toad (pages 14) 3 You took me out of context AGAIN saying I was pushing you based on meta when the opposite was true (page 19) 4 You did not interact with me whilst we were in thread together over an action you thought was scumlike from me, instead you waited to make it as a point just so you could make a point in your notes. Furthermore I INTERACTED WITH YOU. (page 14) 5 VE scumreads you for not solving the game and you don't even give him a good response for how you are (page 17) 6 When I call you out for ignoring my posts you say you are coming up to a random page. I MEAN COME ON. I know you are not new to these games (page 36) 7 Then you go and decide you'll claim scum (page 39). Your lack of activity isn't helping but there is more than enough to scumread you. | ||
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VE actually does think Palmar is scum, but now I have to go back and see what I missed since I left the office. | ||
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On January 28 2015 02:30 VisceraEyes wrote: I think Eden and HTS are both super town. I'm LEANING town on liancourt because of how he "responded" to Eden freaking out. I still suspect Palmar of being mafia and I'm still suspecting GB. Palmar coming in and actually trying to lynch someone moves him out of my lynch preferences for today, so GB is my default as of right now. Unless someone can convince me that Toad is the best lynch, I'm going to look for a better lynch than GB, in case there is one. Palmar was policy vote for me until he started contributing. The nature of his contributions I see you are questioning. Describe to me how a scum Palmar plays. Because I'm not as familiar with Palmar. | ||
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On January 28 2015 03:31 IAmRobik wrote: He has LITERALLY claimed mafia. What the fuck are you guys doing? My vote is on GB. But this game setup, there is logic for continuing discussion, those of us that think it's a done deal with him. Because once someone is hammered, night phase is silent, and one of us will be silenced forever. So we need to get out as much as we can about everyone. I'm already thinking about the next lynch whilst pushing GB, hopefully off the cliff. | ||
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On January 27 2015 02:12 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay then let me consider it logically. Logically speaking I know that: 1a) Palmar considers himself a good player 1b) Palmar considers D1 to be his strongest day 1c) Palmar's opinion of his play diminishes sharply AFTER D1 2) Palmar has done nothing but troll D1 3a) Palmar speaks to VE as if he knows VE is town 3b) Palmar tends to require quite a bit from VE, generally speaking, to read him town 3c) In the face of VE calling Palmar scum, Palmar continues to consider VE town. Now if I assume that mafia want to blend in and hide, then yes, I can then assume that mafia!Palmar would not act this way. However, what of all my other truths about Palmar? Do I just dismiss them out of hand? VE you are scumreading Palmar based on meta. He's been trolling me most of D1. Does he normally troll new players? Would his behaviour been different if I was not in this game? | ||
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On January 28 2015 03:48 VisceraEyes wrote: Palmar is a huge troll. I doubt you being in the game makes any difference HTS. If Palmar's play D1 is supposed to be strong, do you think his push on Toad is town or mafia motivated (regardless of what you think on Toad)? I know you said you weren't convinced on Toad being mafia even if he's toned down, but Palmar's push is what I want to look into. It doesn't appear he's taking things out of context after a harder look. But you are scumreading him, so I want to make sure I'm not missing anything. Palmar's focus on Toad's wording gave me pause as I was similarly (and correctly) scumread for awkward wording of posts. I feel his waffling is a fair point, though associative reads between Toad and GB are dangerous without a flip. | ||
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On January 28 2015 03:56 Eden1892 wrote: We better not be on five. Someone unvote. We still have a whole day left to discuss this y'all! What are you throwing away more time to figure the game out for? Just checked. Palmar unvoted. The four currently on GB (in order): HTS, Robik, Toad, VE | ||
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On January 28 2015 04:02 GlowingBear wrote: YOU CAN'T SAY I'M FAKING CONTRIBUTION IF I'M ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTING, OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO REASON THINGS WTF I think VE and I are saying things differently but my point of contention with you is that you are distorting the facts. I used the point with Onegu mainly to show that it's NOT just me (thus NOT OMGUS) you are doing this to. | ||
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1 Palmar finally starts contributing 2 Palmar scumreads Toad for his positions on GB and the manner in which he's posting 3 I check Toad to see what he's talking about. Given my own experience as scum, I found Palmar's suspicions reasonable. I found several posts I didn't like. 4 Toad panics thinking he has multiple votes on him. 5 I continue pushing GB, but I do understand wanting more time to eval. He's got 3 votes, if he still has 3 when I go to bed, I will unvote since we have more than a day now. 6 GB until recently continued to be evasive and we are just flat at loggerheads on the points I am scumreading him for. 7 VE further suspects Palmar. I'm exploring that possibility. Obviously check it yourself, but yea. | ||
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On January 28 2015 04:06 Eden1892 wrote: I have to admit that it's weird that GB would self-vote and retract if he's mafia. You don't self-vote as mafia unless you're planning to have your partner hammer it away to cut off discussion. Maybe I'll check the time elapsed between the time he claimed and the time he retracted. Could lead us somewhere. | ||
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On January 28 2015 01:23 GlowingBear wrote: Yeah, that is a scum giving up. Gg well played On January 28 2015 01:37 GlowingBear wrote: ##Unvote GB claimed scum at 4:23pm my time and retracted at 4:37pm my time. When he voted I believe he had three. Palmar gave him #4 via martyr policy at 4:30pm. GB retracted at 4:37pm. On January 28 2015 01:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Untouchable Votecount GlowingBear (4): Half the Sky, IAmRobik, Onegu (2): Eden1892, liancourt liancourt (1): Toadesstern (0): IAmRobik (0): Eden1892 (0): Palmar (0): With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is in 0m 0s. If no majority is reached before then, the day will be a no lynch. The people in thread were at the time - Palmar, Onegu, myself, Robik. | ||
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Because Robik and I were ALREADY on him. But Onegu was NOT sold and thought GB was martyring so we cannot make that association. | ||
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Is it reasonable to think GB made a play here or as Robik said, did GB retract since he'd be playing against his win condition? I mean, does GB make plays like this? I've only played one game prior with him on this. I mean I could see a Koshi pull this but... | ||
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.... That was at myself. Gah. | ||
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I am assuming you've had plenty of game time with Palmar. If this is not the case, then guess we'll have to move on. I have been taking a lot of people here at face value in general simply because I've not played with them. Right now, nothing that I've seen from VE is inherently scummy. I don't know if he's posting more/less relative to other games, for example. Palmar I didn't like his trolling. When he comes in, his arguments on Toad did make sense but just that I was much more convinced on GB. But then he puts vote #4 under policy, when at least two others (Robik and myself) were scumreading him. So that begs the question why Palmar didn't check our scumreads. Does this make sense? | ||
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On January 28 2015 04:44 GlowingBear wrote: If you believe mafia would have hammered me you have to think that toad is mafia The only thing that prevents me to vote toad is that palmar is scum reading him Toad was not in thread at the time. I already looked into that. It was Robik, me, Onegu, Palmar, and both Robik and I had votes on you already. | ||
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On January 28 2015 04:55 GlowingBear wrote: Yeah but when it came back to the thread he instantly voted me reach makes no sense Because he cared down read on me and He admitted to me voted me for survival You mean Toad right? Palmar voted you prior. Then it was Toad and then VE. So you are scumreading Toad (or questioning him) because you're saying he voted you for survival? It looks like your phone might have autocorrected you on this since you said you were driving. | ||
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On January 28 2015 05:19 Eden1892 wrote: GB, you're gonna need to explain this play ASAP. 100% Previous post is gibberish, but I'm inclined to blame that on mobile autocorrect. | ||
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Also if you knew Palmar as someone that promotes policy lynches D1. | ||
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On January 28 2015 04:53 Palmar wrote: I don't care which but please stop playing in the best interest of town thank you You have a scumread on Toad, presumably. Why are/were you voting a policy read over a scum read? Why aren't you pushing Toad to everyone else who was in here? | ||
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On January 28 2015 04:42 Half the Sky wrote: So that begs the question why Palmar didn't check our scumreads. Does this make sense? On January 28 2015 05:37 Eden1892 wrote: What do you mean by check your scumreads? Well if what Toad says is true and Palmar is not one to policy lynch D1, and if he threw down a vote for martyring, it would make him look odd at best, considering he had a scumread (Toad), and two of us had scumreads on GB. He didn't say explicitly he was sheeping either Robik or myself, just that his vote on GB was policy. It possibly could be a scum taking advantage of the vote pile already on. But then again looking at his filter, he already had GB on a scumlist from when he started playing more seriously. On January 27 2015 18:03 Palmar wrote: Eden is town So this leaves: GB lian Toad Onegu But then again I'm bad and idk. The best argument against GB is that he attempted to create a framework for his thought process and didn't really follow it through. It is very tempting to create a framework for yourself when you're mafia "I am only going to read 2 people today", "I am going to do list posts and update them", because it makes posting easier, you just follow whichever formula you have supplied and no one suspects a thing! simple, right? I can't remember why I think Toad is maybe mafia. But he really could be. The other two I haven't read that much. On January 27 2015 23:30 Palmar wrote: who is mafia. Clearly, by this post, you don't think HTS is mafia, as do you think robik is. Me and my bro VE are town, and in your world you must be town. So that leaves Toad liancourt eden onegu two of which were your original townreads. lian/toad so that leaves Eden and Onegu as the mafia team. Eden isn't mafia, so.... onegu is mafia? Then after this he votes GB. Deary me, this is hard. | ||
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What is a scum Palmar like? | ||
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On January 28 2015 06:22 GlowingBear wrote: I've just got out of my finals, dude. I'm coming home and I'll explain once I get there. I hope they went well. We'll see you soon. I should be up for a few more hours here. I wish I could talk more to the American players though. Stupid timezones. | ||
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Here's Palmar's games out of the database. He has NOT rolled scum often at all this year. + Show Spoiler [Palmar] + Metal Mini Mafia! Town Miller Killed Night 2 Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia II Mafia Vanilla Survived Pick Their Power Mafia Town Bro Of Destiny Survived Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia III Town Vanilla Endgamed Closed Casket Mafia Town Virgin Endgamed Real Time Mafia Town Miller Survived Day 0 World at War 2 Mafia Third Party Conspirator Lynched Day 1 Merc Mini 2 Town Juliet Survived Day 3 Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia V Mafia Vanilla Survived Pick Their Power Mafia 2 Mafia Traitor Red Hood Lynched Day 4 Experimental Haunted Mafia Town Vanilla Killed Night 1 Personality Mafia! Mafia flamewheel Lynched Day 3 TL Mafia XLIV Town Vanilla Killed Night 2 Cosmic Horror Mafia Town Medic Killed Night 1 Resurrection Mafia Town Vanilla Survived Some Mafia Game Mafia Vanilla Lynched Day 4 Lord of the Rings Mafia Third Party Gollum Survived Day 0 TL Mafia XLV Mafia Pyro Lynched Day 1 Steamship Liquidia (TL Mafia 46) Town Records Cop Killed Night 4 Mini Mafia X Town Vanilla Killed Night 1 TL Mafia XLVIII Town Floridian Killed Night 3 Responsibility Mafia! Mafia Traitor Killed Night 1 Purgatory Mafia Mafia Courier Killed Night 1 TL Mafia L Town Miller Lynched Day 1 Hammer Mini Mafia Town Watcher Killed Night 2 BCs Arkham City Third Party Batman Unknown Day 0 Werewolves Invade Teamliquid II Mafia Vanilla Survived Day 0 Mr. Wiggles Mini Mafia II Town Watcher Killed Night 2 TL Mafia LII: JubJub Mafia Town Parity Cop Killed Day 3 Death Factory Mafia 2 Town Mirror Toy Killed Night 1 Liar Game Mini Mafia Mafia Goon Lynched Day 6 TL Mafia LIV Town Vanilla Killed Night 1 Pick Your Power: Redux Town Pardoner Modkilled Night 5 Emergency Mini Mafia! Mafia Vanilla Modkilled Day 4 iGroks Good Clean Old-fashioned Mafia Mafia Vanilla Lynched Day 3 Bureaucracy Mafia! Mafia Company Lawyer Lynched Day 3 Normal Mini Mafia III Town Vanilla Killed Night 1 Rockband Mini Mafia Mafia Roleblocker Lynched Day 2 Hero Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Killed Night 2 Parallel World Mafia Town Teemo Killed Night 2 TL Mafia LVIII Town Vanilla Killed Day 3 Nomination Mafia Town Vanilla Lynched Night 1 RED Teams Prize Town Mayoreal Bonaparte Killed Night 1 Ego Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Survived Day 3 Boardwalk Empire Mafia: Pick Your Power Town Emperor Killed Night 1 TL Mafia LXI Town Detective Lynched Day 10 Smurf Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 6 Death Note Mini Mafia Town Miller Lynched Day 1 Thug Life Mini Mafia Mafia Vanilla Lynched Day 3 Hogwarts Mafia Town Vigilante Lynched Day 1 Survivor Series Mafia Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 4 Default Suspicions Mafia Town Jack of all trades Killed Night 2 Foundation Mafia Town Vanilla Survived Day 3 III Titanic Mini Mafia: MS Paint Edition Mafia Janitor Endgamed Day 3 World Heavyweight Championship Mafia II Mafia Vanilla Lynched Day 1 Cell Mini Mafia Mafia Vanilla Unknown Day 2 Catastrophe Mafia Town Merchant Killed Night 5 You Only Shoot Once Mafia Town Pardoner Survived Day 9 [M][N] Detention Mafia Town Vanilla Lynched Day 4 Cell Mini Mafia II Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 3 [N] TL Order Mafia LXVI Town Mason Killed Night 1 World Cup Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Town killed Night 1 Team Melee Mini Mafia V: Newbies and Vets Town Vanilla Killed Night 1 Twitterverse Mini Mafia Town Literally A Bird Survived Day 3 Showdown Mafia Town Salesman Killed Night 4 TL Mafia LXVIII: Fanfic Crossover Edition Town Vanilla Lynched Day 2 2p2 Vanilla Werewolf 13er Town Vanilla Lynched Day 2 Fantasy Football (FFL) Mini Third Party Poisoner Lynched Day 4 Russia Today Mafia Roleblocker Endgamed Day 3 Have at it. Any input would be grand. | ||
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He was scum in world heavyweight and advocated policy lynching D1. He spammed a lot though in that game. Had a few walls of text though. Going to check out town games... | ||
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On January 28 2015 06:29 Eden1892 wrote: i'm not reading all that shit lmfao Yea this is painful. I'm just trying to see if I can draw any sort of parallel between then and now, and only touching the most recent games. | ||
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Rant over. | ||
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On January 28 2015 07:03 Eden1892 wrote: i don't know what part of "stop giving scum a chance to cut short our time by 24 hours" y'all don't get I've been out of thread for obvious reasons. We need maximum time to discuss as anyone here can get nightkilled. I have no problem revoting/possibly hammering GB and taking responsibility in the unlikely event I'm wrong. And, I do trust Eden. That said: ##unvote | ||
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On January 28 2015 06:46 IAmRobik wrote: who cares about palmar...that's for people who will be alive in future days to worry about. Why are you saying this? | ||
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On January 28 2015 08:20 Onegu wrote: Ok can we talk about my liancourt case? Like since GB stepped off the cliff, and is most likely town doing the same shit I did. I think a liancourt lynch is best, followed by palmar, like getting it pointed out he didn't pollicy lynch someone in another game that martyred is a big red flag. Plus it is highly likely that liancourt is mafia and just wasn't around to hammer GB as he was sleeping because it was like 2am in Korea at the time i think. I actually think this (the bolded) is WIFOM. I see what you are saying here, but I generally think timezone arguments are WIFOM because you don't know a person's schedule and why they are out of thread. For example VE, an American, wasn't in thread, and you could argue he wasn't in thread because he was busy at work. If you're going to lynch Lian, let's talk about the case contents... | ||
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The nonsensical stuff and not following Eden's request to me (this all happening whilst I was asleep last night) is a combination to me of trolling and question dodging, but I can also see why he wants to play catch up if he's answering others' questions. He quoted some of the stuff I said though, I recall some editorials but I don't recall him even answering any questions. The post read on Toad though was a good post as it drove discussion and made me think. So all this would make me feel nullish, at least on the behaviour last night alone. | ||
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Lian will/should be up very soon, if not up already, so I am interested to hear what he has to say. Good night everyone. | ||
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GlowingBear...if you're town, let's start seeing some town agenda/actions from you, please. | ||
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Palmar....you didn't answer my question. You were scumreading Toad. Why would you throw in a policy vote over pushing Toad, a scumread of yours? Am I missing something? | ||
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On January 28 2015 09:20 Palmar wrote: HTS STOP TRYING TO USE META. I'll admit I tried. I admitted I hated it. I gave up. Next? | ||
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On January 28 2015 09:26 Eden1892 wrote: Wait hol up Palmar What is case on Toad Page 37. It looked pretty legit, which is why I tried following up on it. | ||
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Good night everyone <3 | ||
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Why does all the interesting events have to happen whilst I'm sleeping...ugh. I skimmed through the last 5 pages, but will review more in detail midday/lunch. Palmar, noted on the meta reads...fine. I understand what you are saying now on my use of them. I used them to get a better understanding of you, but generally with the way things work I don't use meta in hardly any of my cases. More to come... | ||
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I still find the Palmar voting sequence weird. Those two quoted posts I made, I could have sworn was based on an initial scumread on him (in addition to the one on Toad), so why did he say policy later? Am I missing something? I'll re-read when I have more time today. GlowingBear's exchange with Palmar, he is sounding a LOT more credible. I'd have to agree with Eden on that one. Still I'll look harder into things there. I don't understand Palmar punishing people because he wants to be a dick or however he phrased it but, if he's done that as both alignments, then it is probably NAI. But something doesn't feel right to me about the policy vote part when I could have sworn he was trying to find a reason to scumread GB. I don't know if what he posted on page 52 is a cover for a potential mafia action. Maybe it's just me being paranoid. On the flip side, he's pushing Toad. Still. Which is what a townie should be doing. And the argument against Toad does get more substantial when you consider the vote. | ||
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Onegu and Eden are spot on. I think you've had ONE good read all game, but I don't know why you're posting the way you are. You had better structured arguments in the NYE party mafia game, (using as a basis for comparison) so I know you're capable of town-driven posts, and these types of posts are clearly not it. You're also ignoring the people who are scumreading you (or have reason to). And that's a very bad sign. | ||
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I don't like associative reads again, but since night is silent I think we need to keep on the backs of our minds... Take a note on the interactions between those two. Lian has drawn attention to Toad's way of posting like he can't get a read on him. Is that a weak enough case where if he flips we might just leave Toad alone because he scumread him? It's WIFOM and such but it's something to consider. Toad has leaned towards Lian being scum but prioritised Onegu over him in each of his scum lists. Though I'm not seeing hard pushes on any of them. Maybe it sounds crazy but I thought I'd bring the idea up since some are scumreading (or at least null leaning scum) on at least one of these. | ||
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What does L-1, L-2 or whatever mean? Cheers. | ||
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After reviewing everything from when I went to bed, I'm going to say Lian and Toad are my top two for lynch (in that order). Stick to one of these since most of us are pretty sure. I don't see how Onegu is even on the table when he could have hammered a town GB during the time Palmar voted/unvoted (around 4:30pm GMT yesterday, and I'd quoted that). I recall him discouraging us from voting GB because of the martyr thing. Unless people are saying his arguments are bad, but he has been pushing Lian. Robik has been doing less and less. Off the cuff, my issue with Robik is that he doesn't seem to have any other scum reads than GB. | ||
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Can we get a vote count please? | ||
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We have 10 more hours we can try and discuss things otherwise we have to brace for a hammer at any point. Is anyone else in thread? (Palmar?) In which case I have no problems voting Toad. | ||
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On January 27 2015 18:03 Palmar wrote: Eden is town So this leaves: GB lian Toad Onegu But then again I'm bad and idk. The best argument against GB is that he attempted to create a framework for his thought process and didn't really follow it through. It is very tempting to create a framework for yourself when you're mafia "I am only going to read 2 people today", "I am going to do list posts and update them", because it makes posting easier, you just follow whichever formula you have supplied and no one suspects a thing! simple, right? I can't remember why I think Toad is maybe mafia. But he really could be. The other two I haven't read that much. On January 27 2015 23:30 Palmar wrote: who is mafia. Clearly, by this post, you don't think HTS is mafia, as do you think robik is. Me and my bro VE are town, and in your world you must be town. So that leaves Toad liancourt eden onegu two of which were your original townreads. lian/toad so that leaves Eden and Onegu as the mafia team. Eden isn't mafia, so.... onegu is mafia? I'm still a tad confused on what you were trying to do with GB. Were you scumreading him at all when you looked into this? And if you were how did a scumread become a policy vote? | ||
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On January 28 2015 22:24 VisceraEyes wrote: Like what kind of stuff do you want to discuss? And how do you know that anyone will even be around near lynch time? Honestly I think we should start thinking about just coming up with a lynch we can all agree on. Right now I'm looking at Onegu and lian, but Palmar could (if he tried) convince me to vote Toad. Fair, then, since I am ready to vote two people. Vote is already on Lian, but 3 are voting Toad. I'd be #4. Palmar's chief case on Toad, was on page 37. I think if you take that case on Toad along with seeing what he's done (or not done) lately will show why he's a good vote too. | ||
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On January 27 2015 23:41 Palmar wrote: This post is complete horseshit In fact I am much more sure on Toad being mafia than GB. But lynching both might be fine. The point here is Toad is waffling so hard on GB that it's almost painful | ||
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Why don't you think Lian, for example is a better candidate? | ||
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The other problem I'm having is he's not particularly pushing anyon aside from listing scumreads. At least not that I can recall. Also I knew there was another suspicious exchange...here it is. [QUOTE]On January 27 2015 19:53 Toadesstern wrote: [QUOTE]On January 27 2015 19:43 Palmar wrote: [QUOTE]On January 27 2015 19:33 Toadesstern wrote: [QUOTE]On January 27 2015 19:28 Palmar wrote: Do you think my concern regarding GB is irrelevant Toad?[/QUOTE] I've never done that as mafia ever. I'm not even sure if "against GB" means "against GB lynch" or "against GB (being town)" with the topic being what it is recently.[/QUOTE] So what? I feel like it's a mafia thing to do. Unlike all the baddies who cling to meta, I don't care if it's been done before or if he has done it before. I think it's a scummy way to frame your posting this current game.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On January 27 2015 19:56 Toadesstern wrote: besides... I don't think I should talk about this stuff. I think I made my point clear: I'd prefer one of the other 2 for today. If GB happens to be the lynch I'm fine with lynching him too[/QUOTE] I don't like these quotes. Because to me, they sound like a scum who doesn't want to be held accountable for something he said if he were to backtrack, etc. What do you think? | ||
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The other problem I'm having is he's not particularly pushing anyon aside from listing scumreads. At least not that I can recall. Also I knew there was another suspicious exchange...here it is. On January 27 2015 19:43 Palmar wrote: So what? I feel like it's a mafia thing to do. Unlike all the baddies who cling to meta, I don't care if it's been done before or if he has done it before. I think it's a scummy way to frame your posting this current game. On January 27 2015 19:56 Toadesstern wrote: besides... I don't think I should talk about this stuff. I think I made my point clear: I'd prefer one of the other 2 for today. If GB happens to be the lynch I'm fine with lynching him too I don't like these quotes. Because to me, they sound like a scum who doesn't want to be held accountable for something he said if he were to backtrack, etc. What do you think? | ||
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On January 28 2015 22:31 Palmar wrote: And policy and scumreads aren't mutually exclusive. If you break a policy and I want to policy kill you, that doesn't change how I feel about the guy from an analytical standpoint. Fair enough. It wasn't clear. The way you were posting struck me if it was straight up policy. | ||
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Then Palmar unvoted. VE you had voted him as #4 then. On January 28 2015 01:53 Toadesstern wrote: whatever... Palmar apparently went crazy and a bunch of people too. Lynch down the list: Ongegu Lian GB and we win. ##vote GlowingBear So Onegu was his top per his list and sensing an opportunity he votes GB. That was another problem pointed out. | ||
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GB, your final thoughts on these two? I agree we shouldn't lynch Robik...but I'd still pick Lian over Robik anytime. | ||
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On January 28 2015 23:40 VisceraEyes wrote: So you think he's with Lian then? By association. :/ HTS I'd like YOU to look at Onegu's filter, paying special attention to the progression of his read on liancourt. I have explored the idea already by looking at their interactions. As I said before I don't like associative reads until they have flipped. My justification is that a lot of people here are looking at least either one of Lian or Toad, if not both. So I am questioning in advance (given the silent night phase) whether that makes sense. Eden has also said he's throwing it around. Will take a look on Onegu's filter though. | ||
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On January 29 2015 00:13 IAmRobik wrote: Who cares? You're driving away discussion from GB who is my top scum. Beyond him being my top scum, there are many associative reads that I have based off a GB flip that I don't want to elaborate one pre-flip and it's pissing me off. The game becomes exponentially easier to solve with knowledge of GB's alignment. Robik, your last posts indicate to me you had not caught up on the thread (when I was asleep). Have you even looked at GB's latest exchange with Palmar? Do you have any thoughts or conclusions on it? Specifically where he talks about the voting sequence on him and his plays? Does that give to you a town or scum impression? If you're town, you'd be further substantiating your push using his latest information or you would be moving on to another scumread. | ||
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Do you have a second scumread? (unless I missed it) There are two scum in this game, you know. | ||
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I just don't think you're being productive spamming "kill Toad". | ||
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Looking at Onegu's case on Lian, point by point: On January 28 2015 00:27 Onegu wrote: Ok let's look at everything liancourt has done in this game and see how it can come from a town point of view. His first relevant post he was getting pressure from his quick vote which the vote was a null tell. But his explanation is really omgus. He went and explains you say you can't be read so I'm scared of you therefore my vote. His only reason is to be scared he won't be able to read toad. Why does he feel the need to justify his quick vote with something, but also preface it with it was a joke post. He then follows this post up saying he is ready to policy lynch wtf?! But after saying that keeps his vote on toad saying he needs to see more, yet at the time toad had followed up with multiple posts with coherent thoughts and didn't look scummy at all. Okay. I can see from a town perspective why Onegu is questioning this. From my own experience I have seen people say their votes on people are semi-joking, and they can be if their thought process is reasonable. Onegu is questioning a possible contradiction in reasoning here - I personally don't agree with it - but this point is not a reason to scumread Onegu. I think he's using enough critical thinking here...so far. On January 28 2015 00:27 Onegu wrote: After this he gets pressure to unvote, but how does he respond. Followed up by. Now really read this post, he gives himself a out, he follows with oh your just a good mafia player. But if I don't agree with you reason you are scum. He sets up an out in this post to be able to easily vote toad at any time later in the game by saying yup you look townie but I don't agree with you reasoning so I vote you. Then if toad flips town he doesn't look bad. There is no reason why town make themselves outs. Comeon man. I feel Onegu's second part here is a lot more solid. When I read this again, the "if I don't agree with the reasoning you're prolly scum" is definitely a massive red flag since it's very possible that two townies can see things differently and Lian's discounting of that in of itself IS a massive problem. It is completely reasonable for Onegu to make this conclusion from this segment. It may not be accurate - we obviously don't know that yet - but it's definitely reasonable. On January 28 2015 00:27 Onegu wrote: After this he starts only focusing on Eden. Making little jabs at him and setting up his unvote. He gets called out for ignoring/misrepresenting edens meta, and his response is to respond something that is a null tell. It's like he is just trying to find something anything to respond to. And then he's like policy lynch again lol. And the waffle in this post. He defends palmar but then policy lynch, but rather Eden for reasons that are null and misconstrued. Then the post that was uber scummy, I just don't get why he is like soft defending palmar at this point. Palmar had done jack shit but troll in the first 24-36 hours and there is no reason to defend him at this point. He then goes on to the post that says he is confirmation biased. There just is no point it really is like he is just trying to look busy, and I really don't see any point to this post but to enflame Eden. It honestly says nothing game relevant. The rest is him not understanding me, but now please address my points on you liancourt. This second part in Onegu's case is a bit weak but again, do I scumread him for it? I don't think so. Not in of itself. I don't know where the third quote is coming from since Lian's not exactly defending Palmar in that sequence. His use of the second and third quotes.....probably wasn't necessary, it actually slowed me down a bit trying to evaluate this post tbh, but he is reaching conclusions here. Ways I can see this being scumlike, if I can get the impression he's being intentionally misleading. His first part is stronger than his second part, but I don't get any impression he's taking Liancourt out of context. I think Onegu looked poor early game, but he has been pushing Lian. I'm not inclined to scumread him. Are you seeing something I am not? | ||
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On January 29 2015 00:50 Palmar wrote: like that's literally the solution to this game. Everyone is town, robik is 3rd party insultbot and toad is double mafia. 7 town 2 mafia and 1 hidden role You're not being helpful right now... | ||
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Robik I'm not ignoring you btw. Multitasking between here and work, though I'm leaving the office soon again. And upcoming co-hosting duties as well. | ||
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On January 29 2015 00:39 GlowingBear wrote: Please vote Robik. HTS, final thoughts are: they are at least trying. Robik isn't. Why Robik over Toad and Lian? Most sentiment is on one or both these two. We are approx 10h from EoD. Town sentiment should be to consolidate. Do you have reasons NOT to scumread these two that I missed? | ||
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On January 29 2015 01:23 IAmRobik wrote: HTS, Once you're done doing whatever it is that you're doing, please explain why I'm mafia for only having a scumread on GB and no one else but Palmar is town for having a scumread on toad and no one else. This is not to say I think Palmar is scum. This is to say that your logic is flawed and maybe I need to be more concerned about where your allegiances lie this game Palmar presented a case (and has since been further supported by other subsequent points, like the vote, lack of pushes, etc) on Toad. Maybe it's your style I don't know. I triple checked your filter, and I see posts like what you have on page 1-2 of your filter: You don't appear to be explaining why he's mafia. I made a case based on stuff GB said, but I am trying to see your reasoning for voting him. How do I know you aren't potential scum trying to take advantage of a town-driven case? I have to question that. On January 27 2015 01:59 IAmRobik wrote: Dude look at fantasy football mafia 2 and to mafia lxviii. And compare GB's posts in those games he's town. you're fuckign wrong. Look at the formatting of his posts. It's all disjointed, like a bunch of separate sentences even though they're about the same thing.[/QUOTE] I mean I think you need stronger points than this. On January 27 2015 02:14 IAmRobik wrote: GB: I metaread Robik as mafia because he isn't posting. Robik starts posting GB: Robik is scum because: meta Why isn't this day over yet with mafia!GB lynched? I see this quote and my first reaction is to say....uh, counterargument, please? Then I see stuff from you like "free town reads" for people voting GB. I feel the difference between Palmar and you is that at least Palmar has shown at least a shred of critical thinking. He has explained his pushes and his justifications for doing things. I don't think you have. Not yet. Some general points about being AFK, etc, but I mean, I've been doing that a lot too, and so have some others. Am I making sense now? And to be fair, I am keeping an eye on GB, given my latest post. I still didn't like his notes, and he's definitely not as towny to me as say Eden. | ||
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On January 29 2015 01:41 IAmRobik wrote: You have enough time to follow vote counts and make posts like that, but you don't have time to reply to something that's actually important and meaningful and pertinent to finding mafia? Multiple tabs, Robik, and yes, now I have just finished my long post in response to you. | ||
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On January 29 2015 01:53 IAmRobik wrote: Stupidity is a poor excuse for not understanding the logic I laid out. It's REALLY fucking simple. I may be the least experienced player in this game's lineup, but I am trying. And I'm looking at GB from multiple angles. I want to hear his responses on why he's tunnelling you this late in the day....looks like we have less time to EoD than expected. GB isn't pulling a DoctorHelvetica where he has 15 pages on his target D1 (reference Imperial), so....I'd like to know what is going on there. | ||
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On January 29 2015 01:45 liancourt wrote: Before I sleep a few of my thoughts. 1. Onegu not hammering GB when he had 4 votes. This does not make him confirmed town. The argument that mafia "would have" hammered gb under the assumption that gb is town is invalid because mafia could have just as well not hammered to make themselves townie. Thus the argument is very much wifom. There are several premises for this argument. GB is town. (assumption) The basis for this argument/hypothesis Mafia hammers on town. (assumption) The general logic held by the players that mafia would definitely hammer town when given the chance. Onegu did not hammer on GB. (fact) ergo Onegu is town. (assumption) conclusion The conclusion is a fallacy because it's based on 2 assumptions. 2 dangerous assumptions. I have a criticism here. You are paying attention to the fact THAT Onegu did not vote GB and NOT WHY Onegu didn't vote GB. He made a point (the martyr incident) as to why he didn't and why he thought GB was doing the same thing. On January 29 2015 01:45 liancourt wrote: 2. GB self voting making him town This also does not make him confirmed town. Mafia can just as well self vote. Self voting is not a town trait. The argument is wifom since both allignments can do it. The premise that: Self voting is town. (assumption/hypo) GB self voted. (fact/truth) ergo GB is town (assumption) The conclusion here is also a fallacy because the premise is an assumption. Socrates is a man. (fact) Men are mortal. (fact) ergo Socrates is mortal. (fact) For something to be confirmed the premises all need to be facts, but every argument has been based on "assumptions" of mafia would do this and that. I will not let town have confirmed townies based on assumption and an argument that is a fallacy. I've seen it in carol and I've seen it on nye. Both times were on vote analysis and they were all absolutely wrong. In carol it was the 2 wagons on d2. Town assumed that the 2 wagons couldn't possibly be 2 mafia which they were. In nye scum changed his vote off of a townie to vote an outlier when the 2 wagons were town & scum. The votes were close iirc it was a 1 vote difference and scum instead of insuring the town ml took off his vote and voted for an outlier...The conclusion that followed was that the other wagon was not mafia because scum would have kept his vote on the townie. Well it was wrong totally. Other wagon was scum. These were all because of town's ASSUMPTIONS. Don't make assumptions. Make reads based on content please. Making assumption is the sure fire way of losing this game. GB and Onegu are not confirmed town. Town needs to read GB and Onegu w/o factoring in the self vote incident and how onegu didn't hammer. Examine them by content please. Don't make the mistake again I beg you. I have them as my scum, so please read into them. Also toad hasn't done anything distinctive and seems content doing nothing. I will like to lynch into these 3 ppl. Onegu >gb > toad I will hopefully wake up before deadline unless someone else gets hammered first. Imma sleep now. See you tomorrow early and i can interact live with the thread. We examined Onegu by content. So why aren't you? | ||
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On January 29 2015 02:20 Eden1892 wrote: Palmar stop. You're pushing all my fuck you alarms Palmar is really starting to piss me off as well. I don't like voting people out of spite, because I'm more interested in actually playing this game, but he is really beginning to piss me off. | ||
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On January 29 2015 02:01 IAmRobik wrote: HTS, Do you think GB has shown a logical progression when it relates to me or do you think he's been contradicting himself constantly and flailing trying to come up with answers and random accusations? To be quite honest, he's been disjointed in going on you but both of you are going after each other, so I'd need both of you to come up with something more substantial in gameplay aside from going OMGUS on each other. GB, to his credit has explained his play and why he's gripping between Palmar and Toad based on the play. Meta arguments generally hold no water on me. I have had only one game played with GB and zero with you. | ||
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Yes I agreed and called him out before that your vote on me was trolling because of Holyflare. I said that before. I scumread him partially for that before. And you aren't using meta in your case. Thank goodness. | ||
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On January 29 2015 02:41 IAmRobik wrote: BEING DISJOINTED AND ILLOGICAL IS NOT A META ARGUMENT. IT'S A SIGN OF MAFIA. YOU NEED TO STOP USING THE WORD META BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK IT MEANS Robik, calm down, that last post of mine was typed WHILST YOU WERE TYPING YOUR MASSIVE CASE. I cannot edit it. It is best left ignored. | ||
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On January 29 2015 02:45 Toadesstern wrote: friends PC, something that I thought about on my way, Palmar as third party: I hope you are joking. This is a pure vanilla game. Why in the actual hell are you or anyone suggesting third party play? I'm leaving the office, and headed for a dinner date. I'll be back. | ||
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On January 29 2015 03:25 Palmar wrote: Kill toad Piss off Palmar. ##unvote ##vote Palmar | ||
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What are we doing folks? Palmar is not getting lynched, I don't see the votes or any indication, even with the trolling being utterly stupid. I was however, unsatisfied with Lian's latest post. A bunch of theoreticals without evaluating content in the game. I can see why someone might think it's a good post because Lian is telling us to evalute X and Y on different types of criteria, but I'm pretty sure Eden at least was trying to examine the possibility of Onegu being scum or not being scum based on the decision to hammer or not hammer GB at least 10 pages prior to him posting that and when he couldn't, VE was questioning the validity of Onegu's post for at least a while. GB and Onegu ALREADY have been getting evaluated on other criteria aside from the potential hammer incident. So, unless I'm reading it wrong, this is why Lian's latest post strikes me as him saying something just to say something. It's already been touched on, although not directly. Yea he was in bed, so suppose that to consider, but why is he urging us to do it, it'd go further for him to do it himself (as I pointed out page 62). 3h until EoD, and it IS 50/50 that Liancourt would wake up in time... He only has 2 votes, but will remove if I see he gets 4 before he awakes. ##unvote ##vote liancourt | ||
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He's hyper-focused on GB, but GB hasn't been all contributory aside from the exchange with Palmar. Robik also contends GB's read on him is not particularly progressive/not able to be followed easily. My issue is that GB is pushing Robik when he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting lynched. GB is not priority one for me but it makes me wonder. | ||
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I'm going to be in here until EoD, ocassionally in and out of thread. Really wish more people were here for consolidation, though it is still early for the Americans. Damn. | ||
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On January 29 2015 05:51 Eden1892 wrote: Robik has a pretty good argument for GB's read on him being fabricated. It kinda reminds me of my argument on liancourt initially except it's a better example. I still kinda like Toad as a lynch, so I want to finish reading things related to him before I put a vote down since we're close to the consolidation phase. But I'm thinking my vote will end up on GB now. Well we were asking GB for an explanation of his play for how long? I think that was the post that made people (myself included) reconsider his lynch. Could it have been contrived? I know you have him props for it, so... Which Robik said we were all mistaken for. I'm going to read that exchange again. I hope Lian also shows up soon. A lot of us have similar lynch lists, but if this day ends in a no-lynch I'm not going to be happy. | ||
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Liancourt, who I am certain is scum, had GB as #2 on his lynch list....but his vote is parked on Onegu atm. | ||
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On January 29 2015 06:32 Eden1892 wrote: Not sure what to make of that trap at this point tbh. Like my gut says that it's just not something mafia does, but my brain says there's nothing stopping them from doing it, and I think Robik has a really good point about the (non-)progression of GB's read on Robik specifically and his reads in general. I'm not disputing you. At first glance, it just seems WIFOM when you consider both Palmar and GB were both saying their explanations were traps, with GB claiming to trap Palmar, and Palmar claiming to trap Toad. I've never laid a trap like that in a majority instant lynch game. So I'm not sure what to make of it, or even if I should. Because if you take that out, you still have my case, you still have Robik's arguments and you still have GB's relative lurkiness, you still have VE's argument on the dropping of the note dumps or however he put it. | ||
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On January 29 2015 06:34 Eden1892 wrote: Mainly cause I don't want you and Palmar flipping to make 4 on GB and then liancourt showing up and yolovoting GB Yea, this is what is an issue, with GB being #2 on his lynch list. VE also has yet to vote. If VE hammers it's a different story. I'll stay on Lian. | ||
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On January 29 2015 06:36 Eden1892 wrote: I almost want to make Palmar really mad by trying to yolowagon VisceraEyes. Nothing pisses off Palmar and puts him in tryhard solve-the-game mode like lynching his top town d1, and I've gotten this vague feeling that he's mafia for a while now. Vague feeling that who is mafia? Palmar or VE? | ||
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On January 29 2015 06:42 Palmar wrote: why do people insist I'm trolling? I'm not. Are you out of your bloody mind? Half your filter is "kill toad". You spent most of D1 trolling with other shit. On January 29 2015 06:42 Palmar wrote: Look he's not done jack shit. You can say the same thing for Lian and to an extent GlowingBear. On January 29 2015 06:42 Palmar wrote: His defense when I started calling him out is that people "went crazy". He's super paranoid (started talking as if he was going to die with 1 vote on him) which means he's super sensitive to people going after him. he is mafia. You could say the same thing for GB too. How is your case more substantiated than the ones on Lian and GB? Are you townreading either of Lian or GB? If so, why? | ||
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On January 29 2015 06:47 Eden1892 wrote: Quote your case please because your filter now has over 100 ctrl-f-able "toad" in it and I'm not sifting through that. His case is on page 37. Yes, I actually remember that off the cuff, which is scary. Even more scary, I have a 12 page D1 filter. None of my games I exceed 10 pages for an entire game. Is hell freezing over yet? | ||
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On January 29 2015 06:53 Eden1892 wrote: Artanis should just give us a qt so we can stop posting so much. Amirite? Just magically make us masons and call it a night  | ||
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On January 29 2015 07:03 Eden1892 wrote: I dunno man maybe I'm being a donkey. But I feel like if Palmar cared about getting Toad lynched he would be trying harder to be convincing, you know? Maybe Palmar's the right lynch after all? I'm struggling to see why someone who knows the theory side of town game as well as Palmar would be so... almost deliberately ineffective at persuading people. The two biggest townreads in the game have literally voted him for being spammy and trolly. If you're in his shoes and genuinely trying to convince people to vote for someone, surely you aren't gonna keep on like this, right? You'd think. But you want to know why I think he can get away with this? Because we don't have the votes to take him out. Not now. Not yet. I can see VE voting him, but Robik and GB are tunnelled on each other, Lian doesn't have Palmar on his radar, don't think Onegu does either. Toad may have AFKed for the evening as well. | ||
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But you want to know why I think that HE THINKS he can get away with this? | ||
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Four votes would make him shut up and straighten out. | ||
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On January 28 2015 11:01 GlowingBear wrote: Shit palmar. I've re read those things and it actually looks okay considering you unvoted me I can see you unvoting me because you didn't want the thread to scumread you (after I called you mafia) but this is less likely to come from scum. I also see you going against toad which is against thread sentiment which is also townie. ARGH hard to choose. I think I'll sheep you into toad now that you are possibly town and in case toad flips green I'll lynch you. ##Vote: Toad On January 28 2015 10:26 GlowingBear wrote: ARGH I KNOW, THAT'S THE WHOLE FUCKING PROBLEM. I really think you have fitted scum POV but toads vote was ridiculous This is a lot of WIFOM. | ||
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On January 29 2015 07:20 Palmar wrote: Lian is probably town for that big post. GB idk. I disagree on Lian. A lot of theoreticals where others have already acted upon what he said. Scum like to use that "big shiny post" to make people think twice. | ||
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On January 29 2015 07:22 Onegu wrote: Palmar that big post just said I want confirmed town not why I'm scum... I'll be around for a hour or so, will hammer anyone to prevent a no lynch if I have to even though I still think GB is town. Right now we can't even get 3 votes on a single person, VE has yet to vote as well. Onegu, your top 3 vote choices? Is Lian one of them? | ||
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On January 28 2015 11:02 GlowingBear wrote: Lian is probably town, why are you voting him again? GB/Lian scumteam anyone? | ||
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1 Lian - will vote for sure today 2 GB - will vote for sure today 3 Toad - at this point, activity has fallen off, borderline policy lynch Under no circumstances will I vote Eden, VE or Robik. GlowingBear you had better find another target if you are in thread. | ||
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On January 29 2015 05:58 Trfel wrote: Untouchable Votecount liancourt (3): Toadesstern (2): GlowingBear (2): Onegu (1): Palmar (0): IAmRobik (0): Eden1892 (0): Not voted (1): VisceraEyes With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is in 0m 0s. If no majority is reached before then, the day will be a no lynch. As of late, not sure what I missed. | ||
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Whether you like it or not, you're not getting five on Toad, end of. | ||
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Eden voting Lian brings him up to 4. If GB or Lian hammer at that point, we'll know for sure. We need the TL fairy to deliver VE to us in the next hour. | ||
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On January 29 2015 07:42 Eden1892 wrote: nah he voted a couple people at different points, they were just all eventually retracted That was in response to you wanting to lynch VE. VE has not been voted by anyone. (Not the other way around.) | ||
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##unvote ##vote Toadesstern | ||
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I was vote #5 on Toad. Now just waiting for the mods. Any other thoughts before it falls? | ||
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*removes her hands from the keyboard* | ||
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GG Eden Also there are a load of things I want to say to Palmar but if I said what I really wanted to say I'd probably get modkilled/banned. I am thinking Lian/GB/Palmar. | ||
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In any case... ##vote liancourt | ||
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VE, if you are in thread, I'm looking through your filter. At some point you scumread Palmar and voted him. What do you make of the way he pushed everyone to vote Toad (and ultimately hammered him)? Through page 4 of your filter, it seems like you had decent to strong reads on Palmar (even if this was somewhat based on your own meta of him) and GlowingBear. I've been scumreading the latter mostly all game. You didn't like Palmar's trolling, and then throughout the thread he kept yelling "kill Toad" over and over again until we eventually bowed to pressure with less than 40m to EoD. This behaviour continued pretty much all day until the end. I could make the argument that both Palmar and GB's arguments regarding the vote traps were WIFOM, as (IIRC) GB tried to trap Palmar and Palmar tried to trap Toad. (Now we know that Toad flipped town.) I'm thinking Palmar looks worse at this point especially now with the flip. But yesterday I am having trouble even with the continuation of Palmar's behaviour you still scumread Liancourt over him. Can you rank your scumreads, specifying what makes/made one person worse than the other? | ||
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On January 30 2015 14:05 liancourt wrote: give me a summary of why i'm scum and a secondary lynch target Not sure who this is directed at. My lynch targets are you and GB at this point, though trying to analyse a few of the others atm. For example, Palmar now is looking quite worse for once than he was. The problem is that GB isn't contributing a lot either in promoting a town agenda, and I know he's done much better than this in Carol. I've voted you because all but one of your posts are not really driving discussion, a lot of evasiveness when Eden was in thread with you, a lot of your points were repeating things others said, and most of your posts were posting just for the sake of posting. | ||
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On January 30 2015 14:12 liancourt wrote: both of you Just answered. Can you tell me why you think Onegu is scum? Just filter dived you and couldn't sort it out. You argued why Onegu couldn't be confirmed town, but that is different than saying why he's scum. | ||
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Extended thoughts on Palmar and Lian? I know why you don't like GB, and I didn't either. Last night we did not have the votes to off either of Lian or GB at 40m to EoD, which is around the time Toad was hammered. I was quite miffed. | ||
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On January 30 2015 09:00 Onegu wrote: I guess my definition of following up is providing actuall content. Looked at the difference between VE's reads and yours... The way I was taught was following up on someone was asking them questions/pushing/providing further content. But that's my interpretation. | ||
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On January 30 2015 14:14 liancourt wrote: well i'm here now lets drive discussion by why you don't think onegu is a centender for lynch I see an argument that Onegu's reads are contrived. Not sure if this is based on meta or just how people are reading it. My overall impression of Onegu's play. Well, he wasn't really playing instantly Day 1, was checking in whilst he was watching the Pro Bowl. Robik even trolled briefly (before pushing GB hard), others had their own form of banter. After his initial list post, which I felt was vague, it's entirely possible he could have just filter dived Lian and caught something then and there. The "scummiest post" in the thread might have been a stretch but not intentionally as I read through his filter page 2, and he's continually pushing Lian on various points with his exchange with Eden. On January 29 2015 02:08 Onegu wrote: Why the hell can't you make posts like this once a day. But the fact is you still haven't given a reason why I am scum. You give great reasons why I shouldn't be confirmed town. But I really still don't understand why you are voting me. It can't really be a sheep anymore as its only you on me. So I want your read why I am Scum, not why I am not confirmed town. This above post I did not agree with Onegu, but I can't see a reason to actually scumread him for it. I already pointed out the flaws earlier in Liancourt posting this, as it's been repetition from what both Eden and VE did earlier in the day. To be quite honest, Lian, GB and Palmar all look worse really than Onegu. Even if Onegu may not appear to be the most "wow" poster in this group. | ||
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On January 30 2015 14:20 liancourt wrote: Simple POE town lian ve hts robi null palmar scum gb onegu People are questioning (aside from you) Palmar and VE. Why do you think VE is town (in your own words) and how is Palmar still null after what he did at EoD last night? | ||
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Good night and good day. | ||
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Clearly you aren't reading the thread. | ||
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On January 31 2015 01:26 GlowingBear wrote: Robik makes a wrong case on me, posts it, but never tries to get people voting me, specially when Palmar is repeatedly saying to lunch toad instead. IF YOU HAVE THAT STRONG SCUMREAD ON ME YOU HAD TO FIGHT PALMAR, WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T YOU DIRECTLY ADDRESSED PALMAR AND ASK HIM TO LYNCH ME? GAWD I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS Even with Palmar, if I recall correctly WE DIDN'T HAVE THE VOTES. | ||
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My vote was already on Liancourt at that time. | ||
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VE contests he's too contrived. To me that's the equivalent of a tone read after diving twice now, I'm seeing the followups I should be seeing, but VE also defines "followups" differently. Not sure if that's a cover for him not doing followups. | ||
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On January 30 2015 14:56 liancourt wrote: i agree with most of the things ve has said iirc the lastg 3 votes ontoad was eden u and onegu. Palmar was pushing toad all day. Town can be wrong, mafia can intentionally tunnel on town. I need to re evaluate him today. I'm not reading him town nor is he scummy. Fact is 3 ppl followed him with his vote and 1 of them was town. I'll wait until palmar posts before i analyze him. No, just no. You simply agreeing with VE does not make him town, nor does it make you town. Robik and I largely agree on GB, but we are/have been taking different angles. Am I concluding Robik is town just because we agree on GB? Not definitively but I feel he's doing the other things, has other reads, etc that I think makes him town. You aren't talking about what is going behind those thoughts. Also your point on the votes is completely invalid. Are you considering under what conditions the votes were made? Are you considering that VE didn't even vote? Fair enough on Palmar though. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On January 31 2015 01:33 GlowingBear wrote: WHAT DO YOU DO? KEEP SILENT. YOU DON'T SAY "HEY LOOK AT MY CASE AND GIVE THOUGHTS" ARGH Wrong. He did that and some. He wasn't as active as say, Eden and myself trying to figure the game, out but he definitely did this. Resistance to a lynch (as I learnt in Void) is not particularly a townie thing... | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
He didn't spam it like Palmar in a pointless manner "i.e. kill X", but he definitely pushed it and re-pushed it. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On January 31 2015 05:31 IAmRobik wrote: lian > you > me > HTS > VE ....i'm missing someone but i don't remember who it is Onegu? Where does he rank for you? | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On January 29 2015 04:17 Onegu wrote: Is this your case palmar? What what was point three? Did you find it or are you making it up? Also don't say kill toad one more time or I will flip onto you it's boring looking at your 8 page filter and half of it is "kill toad" On January 29 2015 07:22 Onegu wrote: Palmar that big post just said I want confirmed town not why I'm scum... I'll be around for a hour or so, will hammer anyone to prevent a no lynch if I have to even though I still think GB is town. On January 29 2015 07:30 Onegu wrote: My vote is on lian, then followed by palmar. Then I'd lynch into VE, Toad, but I don't want to until I have time to read more into them. Last quote I can't tell if he scumread Palmar or if it was a policy for trolling. He still voted Lian and pushed Lian although both of us fell to pressure last night from Palmar. Plenty in the exchange there but it was the same thing...."kill Toad" ad infinitum. | ||
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Germany9029 Posts
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Germany9029 Posts
In any case out I go. Have a good Friday everyone <3 | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Lian did jack all prior to hammering Palmar. WTF. For the third straight day: ##vote liancourt | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Get three people please on GB or Lian. 5 of us left and 3 on mafia needed. Robik if I recall correctly had both Lian and GB as a scumread for awhile, and he did not get a chance to vote D2, so... This shouldn't be that hard. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
VE's top two scumreads were Onegu and GlowingBear. Palmar for trolling, but both them have flipped town. Onegu did not like us voting GB. Still pushing Lian... Lian had a top two of Onegu and GB. Hmmmm.... Alright, let's do this instead. ##unvote ##vote GlowingBear | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I'm pretty sure Robik is town. | ||
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Germany9029 Posts
Just wrapped up a film. I was suspicious on Onegu based off PoE and the fact that VE died, which indicated I was on the wrong track, but completely wrong on Robik. Robik was much more convincing than GB, and GB just looked scummier to me. Lian also looked scummy to me. Bloody hell. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On February 01 2015 11:35 GlowingBear wrote: Anyway, I would have lost this game because I was certain liancourt was mafia after he hammered palmar Ridiculous. 100% Only when VE died, did I realise something was off. I was most towny and I should have been the nightkill. And scum will let a person alone if we're on the wrong track. So that's when I reconsidered Onegu, but NOT Robik, that's why I changed my vote from Lian to you since Onegu seemed to be shielding you GB, but NOT Lian. And VE suspected Onegu so that's why I switched. | ||
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Germany9029 Posts
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Germany9029 Posts
On February 01 2015 11:26 liancourt wrote: I should really really try more and start convincing ppl these timezones....eh Yeah honestly I wanted to interact more with you, but fucking 8h between us two... GGs everyone. Damn me. | ||
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Germany9029 Posts
Was right on the instinct with Onegu but didn't think others would vote him, so I went with GB. Damn me. | ||
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Germany9029 Posts
Yes but...when I wasn't NKed night 2, I knew something was up. I was widely townread, and I should have been the NK. There were no blues this game, so only other reason scum were keeping me alive was because I was on the wrong track. I went back and filtered VE and he suspected Onegu and GB. | ||
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Germany9029 Posts
On February 02 2015 08:31 geript wrote: Lol. Robik has 7 pages. If he were town he'd have like 25. Ezpz lynch. Also always lynch onegu. That guy always rolls scum. It would have helped if I'd actually played a game with them prior to this game. Damn my inexperience | ||
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