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On January 28 2015 07:53 Eden1892 wrote:
OK, so back to it. I think GlowingBear is town, because:
(a) His lynch has been way too easy. We could have had him already several times if we'd wanted it, and I think if this weren't IML he would have been lynched by now.
(b) I'm inclined to believe him when he says he had a plan with his self-voting. I don't know what the plan is, and he's gonna have to explain it or get lynched, but pending a reasonable-sounding explanation, I'll believe that he's town.
From there I'm gonna go look at the other players. I'm town and I feel pretty strongly that Half the Sky is as well.
The first player I'm looking at is Onegu, because like I said before, if GlowingBear is town, then Onegu is town as well. I explained this early on p46, feel free to look back and see. Onegu is town.
I have a bad feeling about both Robik and Palmar. Robik has been very loud and animated about lynching GlowingBear, who I believe now to be town, and has done very little - nothing noteworthy enough for me to remember, anyway - outside of talking about killing GlowingBear. And from what I recall his original reasoning wasn't very good. Furthermore, I really didn't like the "playing to wincon" part of his accusation against GB. As I noted before, the only way Robik can accuse GB of not playing to win con as confidently as he did is if he knows GB is town, because mafia self-hammering can absolutely be part of the mafia win con (whereas town self-hammering never is part of town win con). Perhaps I'm getting greedy; I don't really believe in "scumslips." But I kinda think this was one.
Palmar, on the other hand, I feel more confident is mafia. I noted on p47 that Palmar seemed like a slightly more exaggerated version of himself in this game; he seemed to be more aggressively trolly/apathetic to start the day and then more aggressively active/ostensibly-helpful once that stopped. In my (limited) experience with Palmar as town, he tends to ease his way into a game; there's very little pushing to the degree he's done here, and his warmup process is slower and smoother. He doesn't go from 0 to 90 fucks given like he has here; it's more of a steady press on the give-a-fuck accelerator. It feels like he dropped a brick on the accelerator this game, like he was trying to make sure no one could question that he was being active and involved now.
Then there's his vote for GlowingBear... HTS already noted it. It's a policy vote, not a vote for mafia. The problem is that it's a policy vote based on GB martyring that's stayed on GB after GB retracted his self-vote. Policy votes are meant to be done to discourage the behavior triggering the policy vote. For them to be effective, then, there must be an incentive to revoke the behavior - a revoked vote in exchange. Palmar hasn't met GB halfway. If he really cares about the policy being effective, why is he not retracting his vote? On the other hand, if Palmar was just looking for a nice-sounding reason to put a vote down on GB (L-1 no less) and walk away, it makes perfect sense.
Toad and VE are still in my null pile; I don't see myself pursuing either of them as lynches today. liancourt, I still think is probably town because I can put myself in what I project to be his shoes and make sense of it from a townie POV.
##UNVOTE: Onegu
##VOTE: Palmar
your premise for GB being town is completely misguided. Do you not understand why?
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Eden and Palmar:
I just read pg 50 and am utterly baffled at how you two are analyzing what GB said. He had absolutely no reason to fear being lynched in that spot as mafia and his explanation is total horseshit. "think about the vote" means nothing. LITERALLY NOTHING. You gave him 11 hours to fabricate a reason for the self-vote when it was obvious he was fucking conceding as mafia. Then he comes back with an explataion that is such utter horseshit that I'm amazed that you actually consider it. Am I wrong about you? Are you Adam Sandler from the Waterboy? "I self voted because I knew that mafia wouldn't hammer me" NO SHIT. HE VOTED TO MAKE IT 3 VOTES ON HIM. TOWN IS A BUNCH OF PUSSIES AND ABSOLUTELY NEVER EVER EVER hammer in that spot. It just doesn't hammer. And if someone votes him (like palmar did), he can just unvote mere minutes later. I'm literally blown away by the stupidity in this thread from people whose play I actually respect.
I don't know if I can even keep reading what happens from pg 51-53 because my hands are shaking that's how mad I am
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On January 28 2015 12:00 Eden1892 wrote:
Catch up quicker, times have changed. GB and Palmar are town still
We are no longer on speaking terms
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On January 28 2015 17:57 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2015 01:41 IAmRobik wrote:
Were you making them big plays GB with that self-vote? Was that your grandiose plan this whole time? You're a fucking genius!!!!
Oh wait, nope, you're just mafia who got scared about getting banned for playing against win-con. robik I still need this explained. How was GB self-voting against mafia win con?
For the same way it's against town win-con. You can claim it's "strategy" all you want, but it's playing against one's win condition. One less vote. One less person influencing town sentiment. I don't see why this is a hard concept to grasp?
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On January 28 2015 18:20 Eden1892 wrote:
ROBIK AND PALMAR
Thoughts on liancourt?
Who cares? You're driving away discussion from GB who is my top scum. Beyond him being my top scum, there are many associative reads that I have based off a GB flip that I don't want to elaborate one pre-flip and it's pissing me off. The game becomes exponentially easier to solve with knowledge of GB's alignment.
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On January 29 2015 00:25 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2015 00:13 IAmRobik wrote:On January 28 2015 18:20 Eden1892 wrote:
ROBIK AND PALMAR
Thoughts on liancourt? Who cares? You're driving away discussion from GB who is my top scum. Beyond him being my top scum, there are many associative reads that I have based off a GB flip that I don't want to elaborate one pre-flip and it's pissing me off. The game becomes exponentially easier to solve with knowledge of GB's alignment. Robik, your last posts indicate to me you had not caught up on the thread (when I was asleep). Have you even looked at GB's latest exchange with Palmar? Do you have any thoughts or conclusions on it? Specifically where he talks about the voting sequence on him and his plays? Does that give to you a town or scum impression? If you're town, you'd be further substantiating your push using his latest information or you would be moving on to another scumread.
What would give you that impression given I responded directly to Palmar and Eden who both accepted the excuse. My response was 100% about his explanation; I explained that I didn't buy it and was even less swayed given that it came 11 hours after "the play."
"Hey guys. I'm gonna be lynched here. Look at the people who voted me." Mafia can't say this? Please explain why. PLEASE tell me why mafia can't say this.
I'm really fucking close to just sitting back and posting 1-2 times a day and giving up on this game because I'm frustrated. I'm frustrated with how this day is playing out. I'm frustrated that people who I think are town actually buy this bullshit. I'm frustrated that people aren't listening to me.
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On January 28 2015 20:42 GlowingBear wrote:
Why is people ignoring Robik at the first place?
OH LOOK. HE'S STARTING TO CALL ME SCUM AGAIN. WHAT A FUCKING SURPRISE
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On January 28 2015 21:56 GlowingBear wrote:
Ok something really boring is happening on TL mobile. It automatically opens App Store. C'mon. This is getting me angry
Ok my lynch list is between Toad, Robik, Onegu and lian.
I actually don't want to lynch onegu today, I would rather take another look on him.
Lian, can you address to this, please?: why are you ignoring real time interactions since you stated repeatedly in other games that your way of evaluating people's play is by having real time interactions? Why would you rather bring a lot of old stuff without actually making anything out of them?
I'm seriously wishy washy regarding toad. I'm afraid I could be tunnelled because he voted me. But his survival vote was really bad. It makes me think this again: would mafia be so obvious?
Regarding Robik, I thought his reaction about my joke post on him was genuine. The problem is that he is voting me since the beginning of the game without actually pursuing to discover my alignment. All he does is call me mafia for bad reasons but makes no intent to actually lynch me. He is just laying there, with a vote on me, calling people bad because he is "leading the wagon". He may have started it, but the main vocal person against me is HTS, who is actually trying to convince people to get me dead. Robik, in the other hand, just points out a post and say "OH YOU'RE JUST MAFIA TRYING TO LOOK TOWNIE" which is ridiculous.
My preferred lynch today is Robik.
##unvote
##Vote: Robik
THIS IS ALL FUCKING LIES.
LET'S BREAK IT DOWN IN CAPS LOCK BECAUSE MAYBE YOU DUMB BITCHES WILL FINALLY LYNCH THIS LYING SACK.
HE IS NOW CLAIMING THAT HIS VOTE ON ME WAS A JOKE VOTE. THIS IS CLEARLY NOT THE CASE BECAUSE HE WAS ADAMANT ABOUT THE FACT THAT I AM MAFIA FOR A LACK OF PARTICIPATION AND THAT I WAS STILL MAFIA AFTER THAT BECAUSE I ONLY PARTICIPATED AFTER BEING CALLED OUT FOR NOT PARTICIPATING. HE SAID THAT MY REACTION WAS GENUINE AND NOW HE'S SAYING I'M NOT TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HIS ALIGNMENT. ALL I'VE DONE IS TRY TO FIGURE OUT HIS ALIGNMENT. THESE FIRST SENTENCES ARE ALL FUCKING LIES. HE BACKED OFF OF ME BECAUSE HE REALIZED THAT THREAD SENTIMENT WAS THAT I WAS TOWN AND HE WASN'T GOING TO GET ME MISLYNCHED. NOW HE'S TRYING TO PUSH ME AGAIN BECAUSE PEOPLE BOUGHT THE BULLSHIT THAT HE WAS SPOUTING ABOUT HIS SELF-VOTE.
I haven't read the posts that come after this, but I'm going to be absolutely furious if no one points this out because it's absolutely ludicrous. He's blatantly contradicting things he said earlier in the game related to him voting me. IT'S SO FUCKING OBVIOUS. ANYONE WHO DOESN'T SEE THIS IS A DUMB FUCK
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On January 28 2015 22:16 Half the Sky wrote:
Robik has been doing less and less. Off the cuff, my issue with Robik is that he doesn't seem to have any other scum reads than GB.
This is fucking wrong. I'm trying to get you to fucking lynch GB because GB is mafia. I don't know how much clearer I can make it. I don't have many scum reads because I have a shitload of town reads. Eden, you, Palmar, VE, onegu. Some of these are based off of posts. Some of these are associative reads. I don't think there's any chance that GB flips town, but if that happens, I also have reads based off of that scenario. I don't want to bring them up because in the offchance that that's the case, I'm going to be alive after his flip anyway and I don't want people acting differently than they have been based off of me lumping them with/against GB.
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That's cool. Ignore me. Ignore what I wrote because it's too fucking right and too fucking logical
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God forbid we were to kill obvious mafia today instead of getting sidetracked
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HTS,
Once you're done doing whatever it is that you're doing, please explain why I'm mafia for only having a scumread on GB and no one else but Palmar is town for having a scumread on toad and no one else.
This is not to say I think Palmar is scum. This is to say that your logic is flawed and maybe I need to be more concerned about where your allegiances lie this game
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On January 29 2015 01:22 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like Robik, I don't know about "lies", I can maybe see a town GB like....making a play or whatever to try and read you. And while I agree that at first it certainly doesn't SEEM like a reaction test, it could be argued that THAT is the POINT of a reaction test.
But him reading you to exclusion IS something. Especially given, as HTS said, that town sentiment is VASTLY in favor of Toad/lian and has been for a while I think.
The "play" wasn't even to read me. The "play" had to do with Palmar voting him. I have even had thoughts about GB / Palmar being maf/maf and making that stupid shithouse "play" and then explain it away. But then I realized that was prolly dumb and wrong. Anyway, he straight up lied. He said that I was mafia. He never said I wasn't mafia or that he was calling me mafia to get a reaction. He said I was mafia for points a, b and c. Then he changed it to say I was mafia for something completely different. Then he retracted without saying that he was doing it to reaction test me. Now he's claiming it was all a joke but I'm still mafia. PLEASE SHOW ME HOW ANY OF THAT IS A LOGICAL, TOWNY PROGRESSION.
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On January 29 2015 01:34 VisceraEyes wrote:
To set the record straight, I'm pretty sure I haven't defended you anywhere Toad. Simply asked Palmar to further elaborate on his read of you. I'm very close to voting for you myself, because I'm not used to you playing a game without screaming about how X or Y is mafia...regardless of your alignment.
lian over toad
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You have enough time to follow vote counts and make posts like that, but you don't have time to reply to something that's actually important and meaningful and pertinent to finding mafia?
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Stupidity is a poor excuse for not understanding the logic I laid out. It's REALLY fucking simple.
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HTS,
Do you think GB has shown a logical progression when it relates to me or do you think he's been contradicting himself constantly and flailing trying to come up with answers and random accusations?
In fact, I'm feeling inspired...I'm goign to quote stuff for everyone because clearly you all have forgotten, or maybe don't care because his tunnel isn't on you
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Let's start with this bullshit read on me. I came into the game and voted for HTS for taking HF's spot. He then asks me a follow up about my thoughts on the game. I clearly wasn't following along and I clearly hadn't (and still haven't) read the beginning of the game before I entered. I then mention that I'm willing to lynch him after HTS. This is all clearly not game related and he starts to push me here for it. If he were paying attention to the game at all or actually reading what I said in context, he wouldn't come to these conclusions as a town:
On January 26 2015 11:20 GlowingBear wrote:GB's 2nd Mindnotes 1. IAmRobik + Show Spoiler +Robik entered the thread completely disinterested. He didn't try yet to do anything. I thought he could be busy and afk, then I asked a question to also see if he was here. Answer: he is, and he says he isn't reading the thread + Show Spoiler +. Well, why is he FOLLOWING the thread but not actually READING the thread to try to figure the game out? Leaning scum.
Next, he votes me in a joking matter for calling him a bitch.
On January 26 2015 11:32 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2015 11:28 IAmRobik wrote:
GB, you're supposed to vote me bitch Ooooooh you called me "bitch" %%Vote: Robik
Only to leave a few meaningless posts later, come back the next day and instantly vote me for not having a long filter. This is problem 1. He had just finished playing a game with me where I had a really short filter d1. I was town. I was busy. Clearly he should realize that it's not alignment indicative of me. And regardless, by the end of that d1 I still have like a 5-6 page filter.
He then continues to mock me with this post:
On January 26 2015 23:12 GlowingBear wrote:
By the way, if Robik is mafia, we kill a mafia
If Robik is town, we get rid of him anyway
win/win
This is the argument of a spiteful lil bitch.
More spiteful bitchery:
On January 27 2015 00:08 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2015 23:48 Onegu wrote:
Robik is reminding me of Cora in BttB just shit in the thread and flip town after I tunneled him all game...
And GB how is getting rid of town robik a win!?
Like you say he isn't interested, but he's been around more than palmar, me and VE.
@ palmar what logic? Ru scum? I expect better than that from you. Because it's Robik. Getting rid of him is always a win
He then starts jumping on HTS for giving a read that GB's vote was spiteful and mine was town trolling. IT WAS BLATANTLY OBVIOUS FOR ANYONE INVOLVED THAT MY VOTE ON HTS WAS TROLLING REGARDING THE HF SITUATION. I EVEN WROTE "JE SUIS HF." He has nothing to go on and is really fucking stretching to call me scum here:
On January 27 2015 01:08 GlowingBear wrote:
A question here: why my vote was scummy and Robik's probably town trolling? How can you still say everybody was leaning town when you had suspicions on me? How can you suddenly think I'm mafia for that?
You've played once with me and you are trying to push meta reads. You're analysing last games of mine. Yet you disregard Robik's meta saying that "you haven't played with him yet". Well, you could do what you're doing with me now. Why the double standards?
And subtly trying to push scum on HTS for thinking I'm town as well.
This progression is something he's done all game. It's really fucking scummy. He is openly avoiding situations where he has to give reads on people because he's facing a lot of pressure and doesn't know how to respond on the spot. He possibly is deciding whether or not to go into anti-spew mode or what, but I think a lot of people have already been spewwed with his actions and their actions towards him:
On January 27 2015 11:05 GlowingBear wrote:
I'm home.
On January 27 2015 11:16 GlowingBear wrote:
Never mind I'm too tired to read things, gone sleep.
Someone online wants me to address to something before that?
Again, this is just one example of a multitude of times where he has come into the thread FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF SHOWING THAT HE'S NOT AFKING. Note, this is different from what you do HTS. When you say you're leaving or are going afk or wahtever the case may be, you provide some game relevant information. Notice how this is NOT what GB is doing.
Then there's this post:
[B]On January 27 2015 21:46 GlowingBear wrote:
##Unvote
Robik is town. That reaction is genuine.
Calm down, Robik. You take what I say too seriously.
He's finally "come around" to me being town. I think he has 3 votes on him at this point. He has finally succumb to the fact that I am being universally town read and that I am no longer a possible mislynch. He either gave up because of that or because he now has to try to win my favor so that I don't vote him. It's probably the latter given that AS SOON AS PRESSURE IS OFF OF HIM, HE IS BACK ON THE "LYNCH ROBIK" TRAIN.
I will continue this later, but I'm just so fucking mad that I just wasted 20 minutes reading through his posts and explaining the some simple fucking concepts to people who should know fucking better.
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On January 29 2015 02:09 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2015 00:45 IAmRobik wrote:On January 28 2015 22:16 Half the Sky wrote:
Robik has been doing less and less. Off the cuff, my issue with Robik is that he doesn't seem to have any other scum reads than GB. This is fucking wrong. I'm trying to get you to fucking lynch GB because GB is mafia. I don't know how much clearer I can make it. I don't have many scum reads because I have a shitload of town reads. Eden, you, Palmar, VE, onegu. Some of these are based off of posts. Some of these are associative reads. I don't think there's any chance that GB flips town, but if that happens, I also have reads based off of that scenario. I don't want to bring them up because in the offchance that that's the case, I'm going to be alive after his flip anyway and I don't want people acting differently than they have been based off of me lumping them with/against GB. You have been calling me scummy all game now I'm in your town pile why?
Cause GB pushed on you pretty hard to start the game and made it clear that he wanted you lynched. Simultaneously, you TR'd GB. If mafia's plan is to distance themselves, then you should be pushing back on him. Also, if you're mafia and he's town, you don't really have a reason to defend him from a mislynch when he already has 3 votes on him, but I guess you could always do that based off of TMI and wanting to defend a townie for cred.
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On January 28 2015 01:43 GlowingBear wrote:
Yes you are palmar.
You would never jump this easily on a guy who is voting himself knowing that there are only 2 scums in the game and survivability is crucial, SPECIALLY when it's instant majority.
Too risky move for a mafia to do in instant majority. You know that.
READ THIS FUCKING POST.
READ IT
READ IT SOME MORE
OH WAIT, YOU READ IT? I DON'T FUCKING CARE. READ IT AGAIN.
THIS IS HIS EXPLANATION FOR WHY PALMAR IS SCUM. "I WOULD NEVER SELF-VOTE AS SCUM AND PALMAR SHOULD KNOW THAT, [EVEN THOUGH PALMAR HAS SAID THAT 3/4 OF THE REASON HE'S VOTING GB IS FOR MARTYRING]" DAFUQ ARE YOU FUCKING IDIOTS EVEN DOING THIS GAME? HOW IS THIS GUY NOT MAJ'D YET?!?!??!?!
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EPT
