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On January 08 2015 12:34 rsoultin wrote:
Lol >< yeah. I'm not going to wait until 10 minutes before the lynch...
But I think it's early with so many questions still floating to make a push, at least when I don't feel that strongly about any of my scumreads. I don't know how likely it is that you're scum unless Shining is. Lynching a blue claim from you is still mind-boggling to me, though. You explained it. I know. Just having a hard time wrapping my mind around it.
I guess it what happens when you not lynched a blue in two games and feel like a god that you wont a lynch a blue :|
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On January 08 2015 12:38 rsoultin wrote:
Even someone who claimed blue, though? Like just randomly lynching a blue, sure, I don't usually worry about that either though maybe I should. But a claimed one...
Maybe I'm the nutball, but with Day 1, that means Night 1, Night 2, etc. if the guy is really blue he's probably going to kick it. Let the scum sort him out and lynch him if he lives too long and continues to act scummy.
If I was scum I would of soft claimed blue myself but that just me.
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Also the only reason I didn't soft claim blue on my scum game was because we had the power roles died within the first 36 hours since there was only 2 power roles in that game so I couldn't soft claim blue.
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On January 08 2015 12:43 rsoultin wrote:Lol and I would have let scum sort it out and lynched you later if they didn't  Gumdrop was right. That's something town or scum could claim.
Ya it could come from either side but it more likely for scum to soft claim like WW did that's all I trying to say.
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Tfrel is known for making really good cases on Day 1 and 2 so at least 1 of the players I played here is scum because they know his Case making power but also he was going after me and Shining and rsoultins case on Shining is pretty good right now in my eyes. Also if you know Shinings alignment then you will figure mine out too. Two birds with 1 stone?
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Also I do think maybe mafia also could frame Shining and Me with that Night Kill on to Tfrel since he voted for but idk I will filter dive Tfrel in the morning because I really sleepy right now so I will get back with you guys in the morning!
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I'm back and I will filter dive right now guys and I will see why would Tfrel was night killed.
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Okay I see no reason why in the hell they would night kill Tfrel unless maybe Shining or I are scum but I know I'm town because was scum reading me and him and dind't have many posts and it didn't seem to townie to get rid of so I sticking my vote on Shining for now.
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On January 09 2015 01:41 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 14:04 jarjarbinks wrote:
To HTS on LS
I honestly sympathized with LS on day 1. It seemed like people were being overaggressive with him. I wanted to focus my suspicions elsewhere since it seemed he was definitely some peoples #1 scummer. So what if he couldn't overanalyze other people and have a decent original scumread? Neither did I, gum, waffle, or silver. What did the scumreads give us day 1? A lot of anger and a dead veteran. Granted you can go back later and look at day 1 posts, but still. That's not entirely accurate there. You, Gum, and Silver didn't have decent original scumreads as you said, but Waffle actually did (he scumread both Silverarte and Tube), Tubesock tunnelled him for it after WW already had votes for lurking from Ras and Silver. The veteran did not die because he underanalysed people. A scum behaviour would be a consistent lack of original content, and a town behaviour of making their reads clear helps town form a general opinion on who is scum and who is not. Town tend to want to put their opinions out there and share the information and keep that constructive discussion going. However there are enough new players we have to keep asking questions between new player behaviour and scum behaviour. Also there is more than one way to scumhunt, but barring an outright scumslip, most methods require some form of analysis. No, LS did not have good read development D1, but I tried to look as closely as I could to his other games, and it's a reason I told ExO at the time he wasn't a good D1 lynch, though I had concerns on his behaviour. Now seeing his actions post-lynch gives more weight to the belief that he is scum. Even Shining pointed out he blatantly avoided one of my questions.
What question did I miss from you because I thought I answered all of your questions?
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I got nothing to hide this game I really am VT and I got nothing to lose except for the game if you guys fail to find scum.
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You know what ExO I seen mafia do that kind of behavior in another game going where they parked their votes on a random person at least the game I shadowing in atm. I think this might be our best chance of hitting scum if we get Celestial we might have a easier time finding his teammates if he was scum by looking at his interactions with other players and how they interacted with him. Ignore Shining for today I think Celestial is our best lynch for today.
Also ExO I did that same kind of big reads post on Carol and Metal I recalled from my last 2 games as town.
##Vote: -Celestial-
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On January 09 2015 03:51 Tubesock wrote:
I didn't think Trfel was townreading The Shining or LightningStrike until about 3 times of rereading his filter. Did you guys think that he was not scumming them?
Is my thinking bad to believe that we could not have had 2 mafia on 3 wagons on Day 1? It's possible sure, but really? I get the argument that if BOTH LS and Shining are mafia that Trfel is a good NK. If none or one of them are mafia, I have a really hard time they wouldn't kill Rsoultin, Half The Sky, or ExO_.
Can more people talk to me about this? If you can't tell, I'm pretty dense and stubborn. I need more than one person to say this is a crackpot idea.
-Celestial- - You mentioned you had no idea how the wagon started and got momentum. I haven't seen you pursue that just yet. I probably missed it, can you let me know what you've learned?
Silverarte (Also LightningStrike) - Can you elaborate again on why you originally joined the WarWaffle lynch?
I joined the WarWaffle lynch because I was a little bit drained emotionally from my Mom being extremely sick and was town reading rsoultin and sheeped her and the fact he didn't look good with his 3 or so posts before his soft claim that why I originally on the train and I was devastated by that mislynch.
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On January 09 2015 04:05 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 02:11 ExO_ wrote:On January 08 2015 23:07 -Celestial- wrote:On January 08 2015 14:27 ExO_ wrote:
Then there's Celestial. I think I'm starting to scum read him as well. I didn't like that he just parked his vote on jarjar. I also don't like how he seems to be going whichever way the wind blows. He's easily swayed with whoever is posting at the time. For example he hopped right on the LS train with me, then when I was gone for a while he backed off it, only to start agreeing with me more when I got back in the thread. Another example is he did a bit of an OMGUS on rsoultin after day 1, but immediately said he was willing to give he the benefit of the doubt. That's scum behavior in my mind. Scum read. If you actually check my posts you'd see I was already calling LS out with my original set of reads BEFORE you posted something to really set me off on that path; so no, it wasn't just you. You are lying and I can prove it.On January 06 2015 01:32 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
LightningStrike just posted fluff and comments on other people's posts so far. Not really sure what to make of that honestly....
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...Edit: LS posted as I was writing this. Last post was pretty good in my opinion, some credit there. Still don't want to make a call on him though. Neutral for now.
Before my post, this is the only mention you made to lightning strike. And even though you say he posts fluff, in that same post you go on to say his last post was good and he gets some credit. The next time you mention LS, is quoting and agreeing with me. Except you just explicitly quoted me expressing doubt and highlighting him by saying I wasn't sure what to make of him. He posted AFTER I posted leading to my later comment about how I'd liked his post which put me off his scent. But that does NOT wipe out the fact I was originally dubious of his posting. You're misrepresenting me AGAIN here. Point out the lie. I mean really... Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 23:07 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Then I filter-dived for my second set of reads to confirm stuff before voting him; which was a very long time after you posted. But when LS demonstrated that he's played exactly this way before that set some doubt there, so getting off him was absolutely nothing to do with you. And note that I didn't switch back suspicions to LS because of you. Again, check my posts. I questioned you for your opinion on LS and then when LS decided to throw out a vague, apparently panicky, claim THAT is what made me suspicious of him again.
Oh really? On January 07 2015 01:43 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Ok I've taken the time myself to read over the evidence that LS presented and...actually its pretty convincing. Although I think meta reads, especially based on just one game, can easily be manipulated he IS playing this very similar to the way he has in the past and it IS from three separate games so...yeah well done there.
I can't in good faith vote LS anymore. His playstyle is just too consistent between townie games there and it has severely shaken my confidence on it. I don't really know playstyles very well of course but those links were fairly convincing. Of course LS could be deliberately selecting evidence but it doesn't feel like that, it feels more like a genuine attempt at convincing. Not a D1 lynch for me anymore.
At this point in time I had been gone from the thread for a while. And thus the discussion moved away from LS for a while. As does your vote, and your vocal suspicions. Next comes: On January 07 2015 04:50 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
@ExO_: What are your thoughts on LS (and others) pointing out he's played exactly the same way when he's been town on several previous occasions? I've been somewhat persuaded by that enough to conclude that for now I don't think he's the best D1 lynch. I mean I'm still not won over to make him town, but ideally we're looking for a D1 mafia lynch and I don't think he's the one to guarantee it
. You finally go back on to LS with: On January 07 2015 05:36 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Had dinner. Going off to do some other things now but before I do I have to say that claiming like that brings my sights right back onto you, LS. Nobody actually asked for a claim off you and its not like you were under a huge amount of pressure. ExO was the only one really on you and you'd convinced me to give you the benefit of the doubt for a while with your past citations.
But a softclaim like that just a few hours before the deadline when nobody is actually pushing you makes it look as if you're panicking honestly. And that makes me incredibly suspicious once more . Coincidentally guess what I posted just 6 posts and 12 minutes before the above quoted post:: On January 07 2015 05:24 ExO_ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'll admit he had more initial scum reads at first. But then, there's this his first big "read" post: On November 28 2014 12:56 LightningStrike wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Okay since now that my cousin and his wife and son have left I can finally give you guys my current reads for the time being.
Breshke: Town since he displaying the same kind of approach for today as he did in my last game when he was town.
Batsnacks: Null leaning town since he is acting close to the same way he did last game with me when he was a doctor but he been dodging questions from Oatsmaster and Half the Sky.
Damndred: Null leaning town since he was one of the major pushers for the lynching of DSIM without much of a good reason and been defending Batsnacks actions but at the same time he been giving losts of questions although DSIM didn't respond well to the questions.
Half the Sky: Town since he been giving good reasonings for his reads throughout the game although I don't like his case for Batsnacks being scum based on my own experience playing with Batsnacks in my last game.
sicklucker: Town because his posting style had pretty much stayed the same from the last game I played with him although he did looked very scummy in that game but he was just a Vanilla town and since our power roles had been lynched/killed I having a safe bet that sicklucker is town.
meatpudding: Null leaning town he had some decent questions after being gone for a while and now he claiming to have no power at his house it could be a scum move because one of the scums in my last game tried to pull that move but failed so perhaps meatpudding could scum.
alakaslam: null leaning scum since he not posted much of his reads but he also admitted to notread much of the thread during the time of us lynching DSIM but I need to see more posts of his though since he said he had to go earlier in the thread to confirm my suspicions.
Oatsmasters: Town since he been asking lots of questions to everyone and been trying to lead the discussion when he can which isn't a trait a scum member would do.
kushm4sta: Null leaning scum since he not been contributing a lot like his last scum game which was my last although he did give a couple questions to people he also didn't post much so I need to wait for him to post more so I can get a better read on him
rsoultin: Null leaning town since he trying to ask some questions and responding to questions he been asked by others although he did convence me to lynch DSIM that is haunting me because of my last game experience :|
Look Familiar? HTS and I have a discussion about LS, and then you went back on him. So you're just going to straight up ignore this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/474146-newbie-mini-mafia-lx?page=21#412LS straight up claimed VT with zero pressure on him. AFTER my last reply to you, which influenced me to doubt him again. So once again you are completely misrepresenting the situation. Show nested quote +So at the very least, you are lying about suspecting LS before I posted. You pushed suspicion onto the WW train while carefully parking your vote on jarjar. You have been careful this game and generally agreeable. But if there's one thing I believe:
Liars should be lynched
People make mistakes. But I believe your post is intentionally misleading, not accidental.
##Vote: Celestial I've just demonstrated I was dubious of LS on my initial impressions which was then improved by his later post (notice that it was an EDIT which brought that back), knocked back again by what you posted, redeemed by him demonstrating similar play in later games and then brought down somewhat again by his panicky claim. THIS is the factual story rather than the narrative you're making up and is what I was pointing out in my earlier reply. I was never happy with WW's posting but it was not enough to lynch but nor was it enough to encourage people not to lynch, which I've already explained multiple times to the point I'm getting tired of pointing it out. Its like banging my head against a goddamn wall. If I've been "generally agreeable" then I wouldn't be repeatedly sticking my neck out by being ever suspicious of the motives of rsoultin considering virtually everyone else has been apparently townreading her to date. Honestly, this is absurd. You are intentionally and very deliberately misrepresenting everything I've said so far and flat out making up a timeline of events to support your story. Frankly I question your motivations here. I had you down for town but now you're making a hell of an effort to twist the order of events to suit yourself.
I claimed VT because I thought I was getting lynched and claimed there simple as that. I had the majority of the votes at the time I claimed VT.
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Also @Tubesock Tfrel seemed Neutral on me and Shining as far as I had read his filter before his death and honestly the WIFOM stuff should be check on and see who would gain the most from Tfrel's death.
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Celestial did you not see the vote count at the time I claimed VT? Ya the majority was on me not WW. Ofc I would claim if I had the majority of the votes a couple hours before being lynched.
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On January 09 2015 04:57 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 04:23 LightningStrike wrote:On January 09 2015 04:05 -Celestial- wrote:On January 09 2015 02:11 ExO_ wrote:On January 08 2015 23:07 -Celestial- wrote:On January 08 2015 14:27 ExO_ wrote:
Then there's Celestial. I think I'm starting to scum read him as well. I didn't like that he just parked his vote on jarjar. I also don't like how he seems to be going whichever way the wind blows. He's easily swayed with whoever is posting at the time. For example he hopped right on the LS train with me, then when I was gone for a while he backed off it, only to start agreeing with me more when I got back in the thread. Another example is he did a bit of an OMGUS on rsoultin after day 1, but immediately said he was willing to give he the benefit of the doubt. That's scum behavior in my mind. Scum read. If you actually check my posts you'd see I was already calling LS out with my original set of reads BEFORE you posted something to really set me off on that path; so no, it wasn't just you. You are lying and I can prove it.On January 06 2015 01:32 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
LightningStrike just posted fluff and comments on other people's posts so far. Not really sure what to make of that honestly....
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...Edit: LS posted as I was writing this. Last post was pretty good in my opinion, some credit there. Still don't want to make a call on him though. Neutral for now.
Before my post, this is the only mention you made to lightning strike. And even though you say he posts fluff, in that same post you go on to say his last post was good and he gets some credit. The next time you mention LS, is quoting and agreeing with me. Except you just explicitly quoted me expressing doubt and highlighting him by saying I wasn't sure what to make of him. He posted AFTER I posted leading to my later comment about how I'd liked his post which put me off his scent. But that does NOT wipe out the fact I was originally dubious of his posting. You're misrepresenting me AGAIN here. Point out the lie. I mean really... On January 08 2015 23:07 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Then I filter-dived for my second set of reads to confirm stuff before voting him; which was a very long time after you posted. But when LS demonstrated that he's played exactly this way before that set some doubt there, so getting off him was absolutely nothing to do with you. And note that I didn't switch back suspicions to LS because of you. Again, check my posts. I questioned you for your opinion on LS and then when LS decided to throw out a vague, apparently panicky, claim THAT is what made me suspicious of him again.
Oh really? On January 07 2015 01:43 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Ok I've taken the time myself to read over the evidence that LS presented and...actually its pretty convincing. Although I think meta reads, especially based on just one game, can easily be manipulated he IS playing this very similar to the way he has in the past and it IS from three separate games so...yeah well done there.
I can't in good faith vote LS anymore. His playstyle is just too consistent between townie games there and it has severely shaken my confidence on it. I don't really know playstyles very well of course but those links were fairly convincing. Of course LS could be deliberately selecting evidence but it doesn't feel like that, it feels more like a genuine attempt at convincing. Not a D1 lynch for me anymore.
At this point in time I had been gone from the thread for a while. And thus the discussion moved away from LS for a while. As does your vote, and your vocal suspicions. Next comes: On January 07 2015 04:50 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
@ExO_: What are your thoughts on LS (and others) pointing out he's played exactly the same way when he's been town on several previous occasions? I've been somewhat persuaded by that enough to conclude that for now I don't think he's the best D1 lynch. I mean I'm still not won over to make him town, but ideally we're looking for a D1 mafia lynch and I don't think he's the one to guarantee it
. You finally go back on to LS with: On January 07 2015 05:36 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Had dinner. Going off to do some other things now but before I do I have to say that claiming like that brings my sights right back onto you, LS. Nobody actually asked for a claim off you and its not like you were under a huge amount of pressure. ExO was the only one really on you and you'd convinced me to give you the benefit of the doubt for a while with your past citations.
But a softclaim like that just a few hours before the deadline when nobody is actually pushing you makes it look as if you're panicking honestly. And that makes me incredibly suspicious once more . Coincidentally guess what I posted just 6 posts and 12 minutes before the above quoted post:: On January 07 2015 05:24 ExO_ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'll admit he had more initial scum reads at first. But then, there's this his first big "read" post: On November 28 2014 12:56 LightningStrike wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Okay since now that my cousin and his wife and son have left I can finally give you guys my current reads for the time being.
Breshke: Town since he displaying the same kind of approach for today as he did in my last game when he was town.
Batsnacks: Null leaning town since he is acting close to the same way he did last game with me when he was a doctor but he been dodging questions from Oatsmaster and Half the Sky.
Damndred: Null leaning town since he was one of the major pushers for the lynching of DSIM without much of a good reason and been defending Batsnacks actions but at the same time he been giving losts of questions although DSIM didn't respond well to the questions.
Half the Sky: Town since he been giving good reasonings for his reads throughout the game although I don't like his case for Batsnacks being scum based on my own experience playing with Batsnacks in my last game.
sicklucker: Town because his posting style had pretty much stayed the same from the last game I played with him although he did looked very scummy in that game but he was just a Vanilla town and since our power roles had been lynched/killed I having a safe bet that sicklucker is town.
meatpudding: Null leaning town he had some decent questions after being gone for a while and now he claiming to have no power at his house it could be a scum move because one of the scums in my last game tried to pull that move but failed so perhaps meatpudding could scum.
alakaslam: null leaning scum since he not posted much of his reads but he also admitted to notread much of the thread during the time of us lynching DSIM but I need to see more posts of his though since he said he had to go earlier in the thread to confirm my suspicions.
Oatsmasters: Town since he been asking lots of questions to everyone and been trying to lead the discussion when he can which isn't a trait a scum member would do.
kushm4sta: Null leaning scum since he not been contributing a lot like his last scum game which was my last although he did give a couple questions to people he also didn't post much so I need to wait for him to post more so I can get a better read on him
rsoultin: Null leaning town since he trying to ask some questions and responding to questions he been asked by others although he did convence me to lynch DSIM that is haunting me because of my last game experience :|
Look Familiar? HTS and I have a discussion about LS, and then you went back on him. So you're just going to straight up ignore this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/474146-newbie-mini-mafia-lx?page=21#412LS straight up claimed VT with zero pressure on him. AFTER my last reply to you, which influenced me to doubt him again. So once again you are completely misrepresenting the situation. So at the very least, you are lying about suspecting LS before I posted. You pushed suspicion onto the WW train while carefully parking your vote on jarjar. You have been careful this game and generally agreeable. But if there's one thing I believe:
Liars should be lynched
People make mistakes. But I believe your post is intentionally misleading, not accidental.
##Vote: Celestial I've just demonstrated I was dubious of LS on my initial impressions which was then improved by his later post (notice that it was an EDIT which brought that back), knocked back again by what you posted, redeemed by him demonstrating similar play in later games and then brought down somewhat again by his panicky claim. THIS is the factual story rather than the narrative you're making up and is what I was pointing out in my earlier reply. I was never happy with WW's posting but it was not enough to lynch but nor was it enough to encourage people not to lynch, which I've already explained multiple times to the point I'm getting tired of pointing it out. Its like banging my head against a goddamn wall. If I've been "generally agreeable" then I wouldn't be repeatedly sticking my neck out by being ever suspicious of the motives of rsoultin considering virtually everyone else has been apparently townreading her to date. Honestly, this is absurd. You are intentionally and very deliberately misrepresenting everything I've said so far and flat out making up a timeline of events to support your story. Frankly I question your motivations here. I had you down for town but now you're making a hell of an effort to twist the order of events to suit yourself. I claimed VT because I thought I was getting lynched and claimed there simple as that. I had the majority of the votes at the time I claimed VT. Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 04:54 LightningStrike wrote:
Celestial did you not see the vote count at the time I claimed VT? Ya the majority was on me not WW. Ofc I would claim if I had the majority of the votes a couple hours before being lynched. As far as I can tell this an outright LIE. When you "softclaimed" you had two votes on you, which was more than anyone else (but only by 1 vote). And you staying that way was contingent on you not providing me with any evidence to the contrary, which you did not long after which got my vote off you. But when you claimed VT you did NOT have the majority. PROOF! Here is your VT claim: Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 05:12 LightningStrike wrote:I'm Vanilla Town this game I wish I was a Cop to redeem myself from Campus Mafia  Votes: Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 05:07 kitaman27 wrote:
Day 1 Vote Count
jarjarbinks (1): ExO_, -Celestial-
LightningStrike (1): ExO_, -Celestial-
Gumdrop (1): Tubesock
TheWarWaffle (3): rsoultin, LightningStrike, Silverarte
Tubesock (1): TheWarWaffle
Not Voting (5): The Shining, Half the Sky, jarjarbinks, Trfel, Gumdrop
Currently, TheWarWaffle is set to be lynched. until deadline. This was FIVE MINUTES before your outright VT claim with WW being a solid two votes ahead of you. The next vote was Gumdrop voting ExO more than twenty minutes after that. You were NOT ahead in votecount.
Okay I thought was I was ahead on votes still at the time my bad -.- But still I was being pressured by ExO and Tube at least if I recall.
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Tubesock I'm town and I think with Celestial putting his vote on JarJar alone was extremely scummy and one member of the mafia in a game which I shadowing a player in pulled that move and was scum so I going off my new scum and also I had read ExO's case on Celestial and all for it.
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Rsoultin if you are here my baby girl we voting Celestial right now so now is your chance to get rid of one of your scum reads!
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On January 09 2015 05:24 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 05:16 LightningStrike wrote:
Tubesock I'm town and I think with Celestial putting his vote on JarJar alone was extremely scummy and one member of the mafia in a game which I shadowing a player in pulled that move and was scum so I going off my new scum and also I had read ExO's case on Celestial and all for it. I fully support the -Celestial- questioning. The problem with your assessment is JarJar is likely Mafia although a pretty safe vote at the time.
Any of the lurkers were a safe vote for scum to place their vote on that's my issue with Celestials vote on JarJar.
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EPT
