Imperial Mafia - Page 2

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Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 08:15 GMT

#353

** "joke but he comes to"

he = ritoky there, sorry pronouns r hard mkay

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 08:17 GMT

#355

in fact Chyz you can have my first vote of the game, it's special to me so please treat us right. Doc I still have reservations about wrt me being unfair, Chyz I really don't.

##VOTE: TheChyz

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 08:20 GMT

#360

On December 31 2014 17:16 geript wrote:

Show nested quote +

Because I hate it when people who have literally been useless try to throw out things that are wildly inaccurate to try and make a point. Especially when it's something I hold sacred like statistics. As for ritoky, no clue. I can't really read him. I think he was scum in an abortion of a game. I'll check later when I meta sicklucker.

err... ok I guess. I get pet peeves/causes or whatever but I don't really see ritoky as useless. Have you anything else to add?

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 17:13 GMT

#516

On December 31 2014 16:33 Eden1892 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Lemme revisit this later, the appeals to me in here are setting off alarms but I can't tell if I'm being unfair/suffering from confirmation bias or if there's something there. I'll rattle off a brief idea of the problems and see if I still agree with it on a later read / if anyone else has anything to say about it. It makes me feel like I'm being buddied but again, I'm not sure I'm being fair.
- The appeal both to my perceived innocence and alleged attention to detail and diligence bother me in a site meta-environment where, broadly speaking, aggressive asshole = town and not-aggressive-asshole = mafia. I actually feel really bad calling this out because I really would like to believe Doc is town and just not running with that meta-environment (which I would love, because I think it's not a fun meta-environment), but based on my past experiences here, these kinds of appeals are more likely to come from mafia than town than chance suggests.
- Addendum to the above, my rough recollection of Ace is that he practically wrote the heuristic I mentioned above with his harsh but effective town plan, so it's (again?) incongruous to me that Doc plays a "read between the lines, bullying" game and then is nice and relatively uncritical of me in this post.
- The appeals shifted toward something about being mad about not rolling scum that I swear I've only ever heard mafia say. Maybe my past experience is broken but it just feels off.

update: I reread this post after going to sleep and it still bothers me for ^reasons. Doc immediately going super-hard on Chyz felt opportunistic; if Chyz is town then his intro post was perfect fodder for mafia under suspicion to go after to look town. I'm not really sure what Koshi et al see in Chyz to make him town.

I feel fairly confident saying one of Doc or Chyz is mafia. Gonna catch up on the rest of the thread and then probs question Chyz.

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 17:24 GMT

#527

On December 31 2014 23:12 Koshi wrote:
I like his Eden read, it is thought out, shows he is following the thread.

I don't really see how you conclude this. His only justification for it is "defensive wording in each post where there always seems to be some idea of not jumpin on somebody too strongly." That just shows that Chyz saw a couple posts of mine. There's no discussion of the actual content of my post, nor is there discussion of anything else except ritoky going after Doc. In no sense beyond the superficial has Chyz shown he's following the thread at the time you posted this; anyone under pressure could have read one of my posts, found that to latch onto and thrown it out without actually needing to have considered the game state much.

Why do you conclude his read was thought out? It almost looks fabricated.

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 17:36 GMT

#542

On January 01 2015 00:40 Koshi wrote:
You say that the discussion was stupid, TheChyz stopped (or attempted) to stop the argument and steer the thread into another direction. Why would mafia do this?

But that's the problem. He didn't actually do the latter part. He just entered the thread to say "hey this is a stupid argument, stop having it" without actually taking the discussion in a different direction. I feel like your posts have been giving Chyz a lot more credit than he's actually earned and it's starting to bother me.

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 17:39 GMT

#545

On January 01 2015 02:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 01 2015 02:30 Damdred wrote:

On January 01 2015 02:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

On December 31 2014 18:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
TheChyz is mafia

The foundation of my argument is that TheChyz superficially chose eden1892 when asked for his reads. When I dismiss his initial reasons, he further contradicts the premise of his read and then changes the reasons when asked about it by ritoky. Let's go through his post history with context.

On December 31 2014 17:06 TheChyz wrote:
Hello all.

Currently I don't like the direction that dr.H and ritoky are going. Basically I just see it as dr.H doing something not alignment indicative (someone always talks about policy lynches :/ ) and now ritoky is just trying to either prove that dr.H is scum or (my most probably guess) is he just wants to get an early acknowledgement of dominance by trying to force dr.H into admitting he did not follow his own policy (which most people don't follow anyway). I don't see a reason why ritoky would push this so far without any agenda.

@ritoky lets move onto something a bit more important than trying to prove your dick is bigger than dr.H's. If there is anything substantial you have then go ahead, but currently your just being more of a filter spammer than anything.

This post is supposed to be uncontroversial. I realize now I initially misread part of this post but it changes nothing. The important part is colored in red.

On December 31 2014 17:22 TheChyz wrote:
Nah i just don't like conversations going in circles for years on end. Eden is sticking out to me as my largest scum read because the constant defensive wording in each post where there always seems to be some idea of not jumpin on somebody too strongly. Just doesn't sit right about how cautious he/she (sorry dont know) is trying to be when there is literally no reason to be cautious other than being afraid of having heat thrown his/her way.

dr.H and ritoky lean town. pointless talking mostly but mafia probably doesn't want too much attention for absolutely no reason other than proving a point.

Let's sum up the Eden read:
1. Eden is my largest scum read.
2. He is scummy because he uses defensive wording.
3. He is scummy because he is not jumping on anyone strongly.
4. He is scummy because he is playing cautiously and fearfully.

Of all players in this game this about describes Eden the least. What about the myriad of other players who have yet to accuse anyone of being mafia?

On December 31 2014 17:17 Eden1892 wrote:
in fact Chyz you can have my first vote of the game, it's special to me so please treat us right. Doc I still have reservations about wrt me being unfair, Chyz I really don't.

##VOTE: TheChyz

This post comes before TheChyz's second post. Eden is one of only two players in the game to even vote up until this point. Why oh why considering this would eden stand out specifically to TheChyz as a player who is
1. Defensive
2. Not jumping on anyone
3. Too cautious

This is the first time in the game that TheChyz expresses immediate suspicion towards someone who votes for him.

On December 31 2014 17:33 TheChyz wrote:
He just is? Like I can be suspicious too. Hell i'm suspicious of everybody, but its just the wording that he is using doesn't sit right with me. Seems to clean.

1. Everyone is suspicious
2. I am suspicious
3. The only thing that makes eden seem scummy is his wording doesn't seem right.

I'm not sure what "The wording isn't right" means. Earlier TheChyz has more specific reasons, but I guess he kinda forgot about them or whatever. It was only his largest scum read so those kinds of things don't matter. Shoot, he's just suspicious of everybody so it doesn't really matter!

I wonder when TheChyz will have something substantial to say. Apparently his scumreads aren't very substantial at all as he says himself.

On December 31 2014 17:30 TheChyz wrote:
I don't have a reason to vote for eden. Because someone is my largest scum read (at this point in the game that means he is the least towny out of all like, what , 5 players) doesn't mean i need to vote on him. Garbage vote atm so why would i do it?

With this post let's try to get a masterlist of all the things you think about Eden, your #1 scumread. Sorry if I'm redundant.

1. Eden is my largest scumread.
2. Eden is scummy because he uses defensive wording.
3. Eden is scummy because he is afraid of jumping on anyone. (I would assume this means accusing, pressuring,voting - all things Eden had done before he brought this up)
4. Eden is scummy because he seems cautious and fearful.
5. Eden is scummy just because his wording just doesn't seem right.
6. I have no reason to vote for Eden.
7. Voting for eden is a garbage vote.
8. Eden is the least towny of all the players.

And then:

On December 31 2014 17:39 TheChyz wrote:
Defend what read? Stop spewing garbage and putting it in peoples mouths. I didn't like how eden is formulating his soft accusations and I haven't dismissed it yet. Is it anything to push on, no? But alas donkeys like you like seeing garbage reads so I thought id give you one. Here's another
##vote: DoctorHelvetica

Eden's soft accusations resulted in a vote on you pages ago. Now you're accusing me of being soft for not voting for you but eden is soft for whatever reason because I guess you have to stick to your guns or something. I'll wait a few more hours to vote and see how long you chase your tail over it

Everyone read this again. Thechyz has yet to contribute a thought out read or try scumhunting. All his votes are jist omgus and hes still telling people he suspects them basically for not scumhunting or having strong reads. It doesn't get much worse. There is no reason we should not lynch thechyz day 1.

Then why aren't you voting him? All of this push and you aren't voting?

I dont wanna type the bbcode on my phone, it's annoying. That is the only reason.

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 17:46 GMT

#556

On January 01 2015 02:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 01 2015 02:38 justanothertownie wrote:

On January 01 2015 02:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

This post is supposed to be uncontroversial. I realize now I initially misread part of this post but it changes nothing. The important part is colored in red.

Nothing in this post makes him obviously scum.

Earlier he doesnt think it important enough to even offer his "largest scumread" when he can just lurk and tell.other players how they arent being useful

this is a really good point that should make anyone saying "Chyz is town for trying to stop a stupid argument" think. If you believe his story then, he would have been sitting on a point no one else had made up until then. If you're a townie looking to move discussion away from what you feel is a bad line of discussion and you have a unique top suspect, why wouldn't you post that in the same post and why would it take someone else pushing you to do something to say it?

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 17:47 GMT

#558

Also I think it should be noted that Chyz wasn't actually trying to stop the argument in question. It had already died down and basically run its course by the time Chyz entered from my recollection. I'll go pull the exact sequence and see if that recollection is right, and then demonstrate how if it is.

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 17:53 GMT

#569

That was easier than I thought. Start here and read all of 3 posts down:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/474082-imperial-mafia?page=18#344

You'll see that aside from ritoky joking about a spreadsheet the three posts, in consecutive order, are:
- ritoky saying he's tunnelling too hard and was going to try to stop
- Chyz saying the argument isn't going anywhere and needs to stop
- Doc saying he gets where the argument comes from and explaining himself, which became the last post of the argument

The way Koshi keeps framing Chyz's post you would think Chyz came in while it was at full swing and tried to defuse it. No, he comes in right at the very end of it, after it had died down, and criticizes it for going nowhere. I think that's why it seemed so awkwardly-timed earlier, because my immediate thought in my head was "Uh... ok... they stopped arguing about it already... why is that your big thing to talk about right now?"

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 17:56 GMT

#572

Lol Doc can be town then, he's ninjad me like twice in a row.

I get this bad feeling about Koshi too but I need to reread and make sure I'm not just being a donkey and suspecting someone for not seeing eye-to-eye with me.

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 18:02 GMT

#585

On January 01 2015 02:57 justanothertownie wrote:

Show nested quote +

I ninjaed you multiple times in heavyweight III :p

Lol. Yeah and my town game has gone into a tailspin ever since. You wouldn't believe how many townies have ninja'd me that I've mislynched for "trying to play me" after that game. I finally made up my mind just to trust people who ninja me multiple times and assume that mafia won't do it often enough to be worth suspecting people over, not sure how well it'll work (first game since that decision) but I'm hoping it will.

While you're here jat can you remind me of your opinion on Chyz? I forget it

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 18:43 GMT

#647

On January 01 2015 03:24 Koshi wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 01 2015 02:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

On January 01 2015 02:38 justanothertownie wrote:

On January 01 2015 02:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

This post is supposed to be uncontroversial. I realize now I initially misread part of this post but it changes nothing. The important part is colored in red.

Nothing in this post makes him obviously scum.

If thechyz is town in this game you can write my tl sig. It's barely even about hypocrisy. Its about the foundation of his read....its fabricated obvioisly because eden was basically the only.player to make real accusations or do much up to thst point. Earlier he doesnt think it important enough to even offer his "largest scumread" when he can just lurk and tell.other players how they arent being useful

I am the biggest believer in Chyz his innocence. I should get the honors.

You should answer my questions/posts then please, because I don't see it.

[adding extra quote tag to avoid wall-o-text]

Show nested quote +

On January 01 2015 02:46 Eden1892 wrote:

On January 01 2015 02:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

On January 01 2015 02:38 justanothertownie wrote:

On January 01 2015 02:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

This post is supposed to be uncontroversial. I realize now I initially misread part of this post but it changes nothing. The important part is colored in red.

Nothing in this post makes him obviously scum.

Earlier he doesnt think it important enough to even offer his "largest scumread" when he can just lurk and tell.other players how they arent being useful

Show nested quote +

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 19:00 GMT

#653

On January 01 2015 03:52 TheChyz wrote:
I'm having some trouble with koshi after thinking it some. Basically once koshi started defending me, thats mostly all that koshi has contributed to the thread. Just talks about me being town and dr.H being wrong in his read. Like the first time seeing it it felt fine but the longer this game goes, that is all that koshi has been really on. Nothing much else apart from saying "this person is fine, these people are on my scum list, etc". I haven't really felt like I have gotten anything from koshi.

And his read on me just seems to good to not have a decent enough read on somebody else. Again I don't get why a scum would poke their head out this early to defend a lynch that doesn't have traction yet but the longer he does it the more it seems like koshi just knows im town but hasn't added too much to the thread other than that. Just seems suspicious to me.

I really like this post for town. You know the old tell about forgiving your attacker that mafia tend to do, because they know the person attacking them is right and they would rather defuse the threat with kindness and cordiality instead of trying to engage someone they know is right?

It's the opposite here. I feel like attacking your forgiver is a good town tell. Mafia don't turn around and get after people who are defending them, and doubly so if they're actually under some significant suspicion. Mafia do numbers-crunching and try to see how many people they can keep on their side and don't try to attack people defending them to gain town credit. It just doesn't make sense.

I feel better about Chyz for this post

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 19:48 GMT

#659

I reread geript's filter and I don't like it much. Lots of aggressive posturing with his early questions but they never seem to go anywhere. He keeps pinging some vague suspicions of people (admittedly I notice myself most prominently, but it's not just me, seems also to be sicklurker) but never really posting reasons / not following up on discussion of those reasons. Like I haven't seen anything in his filter to explain his sicklurker suspicion and what I have seen to explain his suspicion of me has been asked and answered, with no reply from him, just continued suspicion. It reads like he's trying to see what he can get to stick instead of trying to find answers, y'know?

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 19:53 GMT

#661

I mean, he's on track for a >10pg filter by the end of day 1 and the most prominent memories I have of him are obnoxiously pushy questions that don't have a clear endgame and asking the cool kids what to think. Seems like he's said a lot so far in terms of post count but a little in terms of actual value.

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 19:59 GMT

#663

i thought four lmao

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 20:01 GMT

#664

And Doc do you not think anything of Chyz attacking Koshi in one of his more recent posts? I feel like mafia Chyz isn't going to start casting doubt on one of his more vocal defenders itt when someone else is cranking the bulldozer up to 11 on him.

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 20:20 GMT

#675

Ugh I don't want to sound like an attention whore but why are my posts being ignored.

JAT, Doc, etc., thoughts on geript? His filter looks like a lot of posting for its own sake and I don't get the sense he's trying to find mafia.

Eden1892

United States5866 Posts

December 31 2014 21:24 GMT

#745

If Koshi doesn't start doing something then I might have to throw out my "attack the forgiver" tell and kill Chyz instead.

Currently I'm cool with a geript or Chyz lynch. I guess I'll need to read Lazermonkey and see what the fuss was about too. I kinda miss Palmar and marv and a little bit of Arty (although he's posted a bit), their names and JAT made me interested in the first place and JAT's the only one doing anything so far.

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