EPTNever underestimate the difficulty of writing 200 words.
Or reading sarcasm.
TL Mafia LXIX: Carol Of The Bells
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rsoultin
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Never underestimate the difficulty of writing 200 words. Or reading sarcasm. | ||
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On December 08 2014 06:50 Damdred wrote: Xata how are you going to be town this game with so short a filter Ah, yes, mafia by filter. First to 80 posts each day gets an automatic town pass! | ||
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On December 08 2014 07:07 GlowingBear wrote: K Templar totes mafia ##Vote Tenplur Btw I will post a timed post to be valid only when the game starts so I do t have to post it only after the game starts. Now I'm going to drink some alcohol. Just now? xP | ||
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On December 07 2014 15:50 Tubesock wrote: Yesterday I discovered the glory that is Mafia. Binge read the Student Mafia IV thread and then 3 of the advice threads. Seems like a wildly fun game. I figure I should probably wade in via /obs instead of diving in and ruining everyone's life with my noobness. In the dive. Our game inspired you, Tube? Glad you're onboard.  | ||
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On December 08 2014 21:56 Half the Sky wrote: Tube, don't feel too badly, as I'm pretty new here too, that is the only game I've done here so far. After a few days you'll pick up the ropes. Though now I can't discuss that game - we're not permitted, it is still in progress - but I can say it's been a fun, even if challenging experience. Rasputin, glad to see you're back to shake it up again. Didn't think you'd be gone for long.  S'all I'm good for, shaking things up! | ||
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So, the thread was literally running away with me. It was on page 17 when I started reading. Shaaaame shame. Christmas is about sharing :/ Or long Santa posts. I forget. Pictures and pretty posts, must be town. Like totes. | ||
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On December 09 2014 09:52 sicklucker wrote: Im pretty tired now but im full of Joy that it is Christmas time. Too tired to make reads/set traps SL? Where is the bounce around like the easter bunny townie lunatic we've all come to know and love? Or...you know, tolerate? | ||
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On December 09 2014 10:00 KelsierSC wrote: who else had the same train of thought? my d1 read if town as bats isn't super detailed? Wow shocker. I'm happy adding bats to my town circle d1 Becaaaaauuuse? He posted a list and said nope nope nope? | ||
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On December 09 2014 10:03 batsnacks wrote: Damdred I went back and looked and it looks like HTS and vivax have similar stances. For reasons I'm having trouble explaining, I thought HTS was scummy and I thought vivax was null. Maybe it's how they explained it. Vivax was more explicit. There's like 4 people I want to vote right now though. And I originally voted NB for the useless bra discussion. Better than a naughty naughty list and a nope nope nope. Hope for the bats yet. | ||
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Didn't like your reasons. Maybe you have some more. Or different ones. Or ones that make sense. Is there a return policy at this store? | ||
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On December 09 2014 10:07 GlowingBear wrote: Ok uhm we can lynch Templar because he is scum We can lynch bats because he is scum We can lynch kita because where the fuck is he We can lynch sicklucker because he is reading but not interacting kthxbai Anti-xmas blue says go. Who listens? Because he is scum, because he is scum. Logic return policy in full force. Money back please? | ||
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On December 09 2014 10:11 sicklucker wrote: Glowing Bear im very disappointed in you my child. Agree with the silly glowing blue bear on one thing... You are not acting like you. | ||
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Why? And what does Kelsier think of slam? | ||
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On December 09 2014 10:20 ritoky wrote: you even read bro? idk ask kelsier Nope, not at all. Just ask stupid questions. Better than stupid answers. Scum one game, and a game he pulled out of. Tsk tsk. For shame. Templar, where is that list? | ||
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On December 09 2014 10:20 KelsierSC wrote: well no i dont have perfect information on you. But if your play feels like it did when you are town, and you do towny actions then I'm happy,d1 to add you to my town circle. That us what i did with you and bats. yes bats didn't analyze vixen, but he did anslyse hts and i agreed with it, it reminded me of town bats. i generally. Make a large town circle d1, my ff read was using specific information about his play d1 Better answer. B+. Glass half full, but not everyone can be a realist. And it's xmas! | ||
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On December 09 2014 10:25 sicklucker wrote: My naught list - FF hes very mean My nice list! - Kelsier, dandred , gb 'Splain or go home, son. | ||
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Chose to go home, sad little energizer bunny out of juice. | ||
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On December 09 2014 10:37 KelsierSC wrote: I'm not reading slam. But the free town passes he is getting are good info. especially people who call him semi town.. Wtf is that Big generous town circles do not include Chupazi? Racist! | ||
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On December 09 2014 10:36 Holyflare wrote: So you don't agree with anything that's been said in regards to ninjabunnies other than that???? Have you just missed the whole discussion?? Have to agree with someone to read them town? All xmas happy children are right all the time, so says the holy one. | ||
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On December 09 2014 10:54 KelsierSC wrote: Ok well i explained already that i saw what looked like a slip, bats also instantly saw it and pinged it out. Towny play in my eyes Towny play, or Damdred calling him out and has to perform play? | ||
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On December 09 2014 11:17 GlowingBear wrote: What is nl? No likey? Glowthebear. Slam and bats always town, or just special today? Dazzle me with glowing logic. | ||
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Circular reasoning scum circle. | ||
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On December 09 2014 11:24 GlowingBear wrote: Uhm, I've never called them town? I've called bats scum and slam only reveals himself as scum at later days. You won't have a read on him day one. Bats is scum for that wasted post on my entrance. Pointless and wishy washy (hey this guy is calling himself scum! Or color blind? Oh nevermind, SUDDEN REALISATION, BB code says blue) Slam, you're scum because you haven't post any insights yet. Defend thyself. And thank you for a real answer. Now I don't have to take my vote off SL just to get you to play. Sumo fight! Where are your reads slamtheman? | ||
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On December 09 2014 11:33 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Nobody, really. Just sicklucker. I just don't get the feeling that he's the same kind of over-the-top contributor he is as town. The last game I played with him, his desire to contribute was so unbelievably strong that he wound up posting a ton of shit that incriminated himself for the sake of trying to help town. Instead, we get this game, where he decides to talk about nonsense and fluff in a game centered around posting restrictions. He's posting just to post, when his modus operandi as town is to contribute until his heart stops. Normally he's incredibly productive and comes up with tons of fresh ideas and perspective. I'm not getting any of that here. Do not like. Just said I don't have to change my vote on SL to get yogibluebear to play. Got anything non-sheepy, ninjajedi? | ||
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On December 09 2014 11:34 Alakaslam wrote: They Dinnae exist! I must form. This can take time and this can be very very phast It is a matter of whom says what. I have some townreads though if you are actually interested Despite the bouncing around, yes, I am interested in your reads. Town or scum. And I won't even mock you for failing to read. See, not completely rude xP | ||
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On December 09 2014 11:54 sicklucker wrote: Think about it the Joyful Child role has no description but it is a role its basically vanilla town 2.0. I have a present and im a joyful child it adds up. Its pretty obvious. Im pretty sure something dandred said makes me ride or die with him maybe gb too. Let me look it up. Lol, dude, sad part is I actually believe you. You would be the type to get a present and think it's just for you, regardless of what palmar said xP But dontcha know, children are supposed to get presents, not give them. ##unvote | ||
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On December 09 2014 12:16 kitaman27 wrote: Well I interpreted it as the present from the mass murderer would be given out by the mass murderer, but perhaps I'm wrong. You are. Nice try though. Grinch. I stand by my unvote, thou unholiest of liars! | ||
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##vote ObiWanShinobi Oh crap. As in that post was complete crap. | ||
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On December 09 2014 12:47 LightningStrike wrote: Oh I just thought it would be cleaner to have all the votes in the voting thread that's all. All the votes are. Here you get context. Sides, how do I let OWS know that he's failing badly if I don't vote him for trampled-by-shoppers-holiday-death? | ||
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Devil's advocate on LS: This list came out before SL revealed why he was being a near-silent happy present doofus. Try again. Many better reasons to scumread LS than what you said here, not to mention this has already been said. No one else finds this BS interesting? 2 posts after I call attention to my SL vote: On December 09 2014 11:29 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Would lynch sicklucker. Reasoning mirrors the rest of the thread's: On December 09 2014 11:33 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Nobody, really. Just sicklucker. I just don't get the feeling that he's the same kind of over-the-top contributor he is as town. The last game I played with him, his desire to contribute was so unbelievably strong that he wound up posting a ton of shit that incriminated himself for the sake of trying to help town. Instead, we get this game, where he decides to talk about nonsense and fluff in a game centered around posting restrictions. He's posting just to post, when his modus operandi as town is to contribute until his heart stops. Normally he's incredibly productive and comes up with tons of fresh ideas and perspective. I'm not getting any of that here. Do not like. When asked why he's sheeping: On December 09 2014 11:38 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Nah. Inclined to townread you off of our small interaction, but wharvez. When SL reveals his poor reading skillz: On December 09 2014 12:03 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I hate how I say something smart and it goes down the drain immediately. Whatever. Killer Instinct time. So...not only does he think parroting everyone else is smart, but he agrees that his SL read is now crap worthy. Why he still voting for SL? Nothing else of any interest whatsoever in his posts. | ||
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On December 09 2014 21:50 Koshi wrote: Can the 3rd joyful child claim? I want to see if scum has the balls to counterclaim. By claiming joyful Templar verified this: So can the third joyful claim asap and confirm the bolded. 3 confirmed town is ezpz. Really? Just...really? First, SL is a nincompoop, though well-meaning. Second, Damdred clearly in his droppings was asking for presents long before he actually said that he didn't have any. Third, they're random. Mod even came back in to say they were random. Random, random, random. The dumb here is stifling. OWS anyone? Or we gonna waste our time on ninja and HTS some more? | ||
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Liancourt, wtf? Spoilers with nonsense? Care to join us sometime today? | ||
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Don't care about vivax. Or ninja. Or HTS. Null reads at best while y'all nitpick them to death. Maybe good for later, but unless y'all are seeing something I'm not, as Day 1 lynches...tch. | ||
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On December 09 2014 22:11 LightningStrike wrote: OWS behavior is very similar to the game he was town when I was playing him on Campus Mafia when he had to replace someone. I wasn't aiming the 2nd question at anyone particular as I seen people trying to vote in this thread instead of the voting thread that was all. sicklucker been posting a lot more fluff than any games I played with him and he normally do some funky shenanigans to force people to make early reads awkward at best. Also I looked at your town games FF and we played on Campus as town together that why I got a town read on you. LS, bud, you're gonna make me push you again. Why you reading other games and not this thread? Plug in or butt out. | ||
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On December 09 2014 22:13 Half the Sky wrote: I don't know that he's town, but I also don't know or think that scum would roleclaim this early on in the game. I would think it's too dangerous for them to do so. Additionally, the Kush I recall from last game makes these sporadic posts for whatever reason and he was town last time, so I am using meta here. Too dangerous for scrooge to claim. Bad reasoning. Try again. | ||
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Because this was eluded to by I forget who...the reasons for voting OWS were obvious in my interactions with OWS, but I do not expect people to actually pay that close attention (as y'all have clearly now demonstrated) so put it all in a nice neat post to see if that would generate any discussion. Which it has to some small extent. LS is new and learning. My prods at him were to get him to post more and post on things other than just his initial list. If vets want to rely on meta, more power to you, you might actually know what you're talking about (even if I can't trust those of you I've never played with before on others I haven't played with before) however LS using meta makes no sense. That said, he probably is trying to learn from the vets. I see no reason to scumlist him at this time and agree that being fine with tube and not with LS is contradictory. Spending pages and pages reiterating the same weak points irritates. Thus the dismissal of 27NB and HTS. 27NB has done little in her newest posts either, however...though she has given some reads so I will wait to see when her reading catches up to her posts. Also... On December 10 2014 07:02 kitaman27 wrote: Well if you can't keep up with the thread, can you read and give reads on individual filters that shouldn't be more than a few pages long? Really not sure who your scum reads are at all. If you want individual names, pick some people from rsoultin, froggy, Obi, batsnacks, ritoky, LoneMeow, Tube? Hinting I'm scummy, punk? Tell me what you really think xP | ||
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On December 10 2014 10:04 kitaman27 wrote: I grabbed a list of people that most people don't seem to have a strong read about. What I think is that you should be more concerned about other things than why you name might show up on a list Lol, which is clearly why in a multi-para post your lovely number merited two sentences. Do try to make relevant comments. Though you answered my question: those are not necessarily your scum reads. So thank you for that one. I see that you were the one with the comment, actually, on my posting order. Ironic. More to the point, though I think some of your comments are laughable I'd say you're trying. Especially since one of your other posts also drew my attention: namely that LS and tubesocks should be viewed similarly if one is being read for being new and another isn't. | ||
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He seems scummy to me a lot. So does bats. So you finding things that make him seem scummy both doesn't surprise me and I've already noticed. | ||
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On December 10 2014 10:32 Tubesock wrote: I know you're not really asking me, but I think it's more a judgement on good/bad play versus town/scum. FF hasn't decided how bad I am yet, he's already labelled LS bad. I know LS was D1 killed in 2 games one of which he was the cop and still claimed but while I was reading it, I thought his play was so scummy he fake claimed. (Course someone CC'd and really sealed his fate). So, if I were in FF's shoe's I'd judge Tubesack town/scum, but then just dismiss LS completely. This is what I'm doing basically, I think LS is a plynch. I'd rather find a scummy player than kill LS who's just as likely to flip town as not. ...you're judging yourself? In 2nd person? That's...different. Also I get the feeling you just said LS sucks at playing so should be ignored (at least for now). Is that more or less what you were driving at here? | ||
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I think I phrased it as "new and learning" but I agree. Nitpicking him is pointless at this stage. So is nitpicking tube. Let the guy get his sea legs a little first before you start scumreading him like he actually knows how to play scum @Vivax. Speaking of Vivo la Vida Loca...you're definitely coming across as lazy in those reads. Still. Same opinion on 27NB, by the way, or has anything changed? | ||
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On December 10 2014 11:35 Vivax wrote: Lazy in overall lookout at the game maybe, as in I didn't yet analyse everyone thoroughly. And lazy by my standards, it will improve as more information becomes available. It's just tiring to wade through all the shit some people write, only to realize it's either gibberish, uninteresting or straight offtopic. I'm here to play mafia and not to read dumb posts, so I try to make mine high quality, which I feel I've been doing and not been lazy with, so I don't really see where you're coming from by saying I'm coming across as lazy when multiple people have expressed quite the opposite. I can buy 27nb's explanation of her meaning iffy as null, so I'm looking in different places. As said by me but unmentioned by you, I wrote my train of thought regarding Kelsier which I would like you to address. Calling what I did regarding tube nitpicking is quite the stretch given that I haven't been replying to his posts in such a way but rather talked to kita about him and mostly simply explained what I didn't like about his posts. Overall I find you to be weirdly hostile in your posting and depiction of my play. Is there a particular reason? Yesterday you read fine, though roundabout. More words =/= better. 27NB read/recap lolworthy. "Let me compare her to me." Though other people were comparing the two of you, unnecessary. Given your initial reason for pursuing 27NB, it's a good sign you reevaluated, however. (That was the main purpose behind my post, seeing where you stood now.) BS on tube. You've written more than him on anyone for him asking other people he think may be town why they think differently than him. Kelsier read is a bunch of repeating yourself about his issue with Alakaslam being townread and a cameo of FF. Not well-developed for such a long post. And as for how I post...it's only odd if you haven't read my other posts. You're not special, vivo. | ||
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On December 10 2014 12:00 Vivax wrote: This looks so fake given that I have the exactly opposite feeling to the bolded. First, it's completely pointless to discuss that plan, and saying it was a reaction test is completely pulled out of Xata's bum cause it wasn't, hence, it's most likely some invented reason to justify a town read on Kelsier. Kelsier said he misread something, and THEN used it to form a read on FF, which Second: he afterwards didn't push (instead he discusses a multitude of other things and here and there he asks FF a question of which I don't see the results). Just cause of this Xata belongs into my naughty list. Better reason for suspecting Kelsier bolded. Reasons for Xata associative BS. Someone can think opposite of you and not be scum. | ||
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On December 10 2014 12:11 Vivax wrote: It's not the more words, it's the fact I try to play this game like a machine. Got no place for jokes, only for reads and reasons, which is what every good townie should be doing in a game with posting restriction. I think you don't understand what nitpicking means. In the context of this game, it means for example that you write a case, and I only address a little part of it and not the whole picture. But the whole picture of that post by tube is what bothered me, and I explained what I didn't like about the single parts. Overall it gave me the feeling of a scum entrance. However my opinion of tube so far changed into rather townie cause of what he wrote here: Which in my opinion shows a townie mindset, cause he openly reflects about how a read of his forms when he sees something, and questions it at the same time. Shows that he's really thinking about the game so I'm putting him into the townpile for now. Kelsier's read is more than that since he claims that he can gain information from townreads on Kaslam but doesn't actually provide it, or say what it is. His pursuit of Fecalfeast is too sporadic for an early scumread. Why are you downplaying this so hard. Fair enough on tube. Kind of weird that one sentence changed your mind, but since it should have -shrugs-. Your read on Kelsier is good like that. I can actually understand what you're saying now. I wasn't downplaying your read so much as saying you were over-explaining it without saying anything new. | ||
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On December 09 2014 09:30 KelsierSC wrote: So i think fecal is scum, we played a game together as town and early game he was very try hard, essentially Kush made a set up/mechanics comment and fecal went back to the setup, worked through all the permutations and then asked Kush to explain. Super town super eager. this game i make a set up comment, then retract it and ff doesn't bat n eyelid. All he does is talk to slam about sumo. Which is pretty pointless. Like "herez an excuse nit to scumhunt" it doesn't feel towny at all Whether you believe KSC or not, Xata did not pull the "reaction test" thing out of his ass. I personally don't approve of this move and might even call it scummy, given a dumb scrooge might have fallen for it, but whatevs. Says nothing about Xata. If you want a read on someone, ask. @Damdred...seems more lazy than scummy to me, the Templar post. Unless you're telling me he isn't usually fluffy (which considering his silly Santa stories, you'd think that would have raised a red flag by now with those of you who have played with him before). He asked a few good questions in the text wall. | ||
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On December 10 2014 12:38 Vivax wrote: As in, he didn't do that to get a reaction out of volition, he just spontaneously did so afterwards. But Xata somehow says it was out of volition, so it would fit more into his reasoning for him getting a townread cause typically a reaction test is something townies are more likely to do. I see your point, since KSC claims to have misread rather than fished. Xatalos didn't stand out to me, apart from bringing the discussion back to points that had been beaten to death already. I.e. froggy, hts, 27nb. I wouldn't vote him for being wishy-washy and imprecise, though. He seems to be willing to reassess his reads...though I didn't look at the filter in context, so if the reassessments are actually sheeping, that would be a different story. Null for now. | ||
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May be normal for him, but the big steaming pile of null he's contributed to the thread so far almost makes me want to switch my vote. Not buying the Joyless Child claim either. SL is a hyperactive goober. Glowingbear should know better than thinking he could both confirm his towniness by sending a present, that said present would be received at a different time than SLs, and that the presents have any bearing whatsoever on a player's alignment. | ||
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On December 10 2014 13:02 Vivax wrote: Then, what gave me more confidence is the matter of his read evolution on 27nb: December 09 2014 12:42.: December 09 2014 14:02: December 09 2014 19:54. December 09 2014 22:02: Like, this doesn't make ANY sense. The reasons for her being scum were there from the start, yet all dismissed just cause so many people found them good and cause of the associative thingy. And when 27nb comes back at December 09 2014 18:07, to explain that iffy for her means null, Xata skips over it in his next posts to progressively get closer to lynching her as his traction on HTS loses strength. It is a BIG deal whether iffy means scummy or means null in someone's opinion. Obviously you can't verify it for sure if it's just an excuse or the truth, but at least it takes some wind out of the former arguments. And at the time when the arguments against bunnies were the strongest, Xata found some very questionable reasons for townreading her. When the time comes where the arguments against bunnies should be put into question given her explanation, he ignores the new information and joins the wagon based on the old information, using it as the main argument. Also notice the use of the word "fluff". "Fluff" in this game has been literally dropping down from the sky from a multitude of players, and I don't see how Xata applies it so selectively to only these two players. I don't want to count the amount of the word "fluff", between being used as bulk of his case against HTS, to being differentiated into useless fluff and fluff with usefuleness (or something like that), to be called "not so bad in itself". The use of the word fluff in here is mostly just an excuse to scumread people or not on a whim and completely arbitrary. You can't measure the amount of fluff, and it has to be seen in context. When HTS posted fluff in her first post, it was scummy. Ninjabunnies had more fluff initially, but it wasn't so bad in itself.Why? Cause more people voted her! Clearly Xata has a blatant double standard here, and the read on NB should progress in the opposite way, if he had rolled town. Dude, you're either reading your timestamps wrong or thinking that no one will check. Xatalos has not posted a single thing since 27nb returned. His vote was made before then. Nearly the entirety of your Xatalos' 27nb read case hinges on the notion that Xatalos is ignoring 27nb redefining the word "iffy". You do realize that when you quote, it timestamps the time that you quoted the person? If she hadn't returned by the time he reconsidered HTS (who had been contributing more to the thread at that point)...eh, weak sauce. I'm not jumping on this wagon any more than I did the 27nb one. | ||
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It doesn't timestamp the time you quoted the person. It does do something funky though, cause my quote of you is reading tomorrow at 13:02 on my post up above, lol. Context is important. | ||
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On December 10 2014 12:51 rsoultin wrote: I see your point, since KSC claims to have misread rather than fished. Xatalos didn't stand out to me, apart from bringing the discussion back to points that had been beaten to death already. I.e. froggy, hts, 27nb. I wouldn't vote him for being wishy-washy and imprecise, though. He seems to be willing to reassess his reads...though I didn't look at the filter in context, so if the reassessments are actually sheeping, that would be a different story. Null for now. 1. You're wrong. I clearly did give a read here, even if it wasn't one you agreed with. 2. Took the time to actually check what you were saying, because it did hold water provided the timeline you presented was true. 3. Instead of double-checking yourself you're pretending like it's insignificant, when the main point of your read was that his read on 27nb was developing the "opposite" way that it should. Really, though I'm not fond of KSC either, I'm beginning to consider you as scum for being so determined to find reasons to push a weak lynch without taking the time to consider opposing viewpoints. I've considered yours. xP | ||
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On December 10 2014 14:35 rsoultin wrote: 1. You're wrong. I clearly did give a read here, even if it wasn't one you agreed with. 2. Took the time to actually check what you were saying, because it did hold water provided the timeline you presented was true. 3. Instead of double-checking yourself you're pretending like it's insignificant, when the main point of your read was that his read on 27nb was developing the "opposite" way that it should. Really, though I'm not fond of KSC either, I'm beginning to consider you as scum for being so determined to find reasons to push a weak lynch without taking the time to consider opposing viewpoints. I've considered yours. xP Meh, you're right. I'm the one who misread the timestamps. Bunnie's "iffy" clarification did come before that...she had about a 6 hour difference between her first post today and the rest of them. My bad. | ||
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I still want to hear what people think of Glowingbear. Especially those who have played with him before. Is he always this...absent when he plays? ##unvote ##vote Xatalos | ||
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On December 10 2014 14:45 Vivax wrote: You still only talk about a little part of my case on Xata, plus you don't mention what kita said. It's like you have an agenda of putting stones into my way without actually being interested into figuring out Xatalos, cause then you would weigh in every piece of information. If you're a town with such a trash attitude, go troll somewhere else. What about his argument with the wagon first being mafia driven cause bunnies is town, then being mafia driven cause she's being bussed? Is that something a townie is able to say without knowing ANY alignment? What about his strange stance on fluff, and how he applies a different weight to it all the time? And the main point, if he had a townread on bunnies previously, why is he so eager to skip over her explanation? FTFY: Don't find the other points that significant by themselves. That's why I focused on the one that actually focused on the one that made sense to me: namely, that he voted her after she explained the only real issue he had with her early posting. Firstly, he said it was possible that she could be town, which as far as I know is not a townread. Second, I do not understand his fluff comment. It seemed to suggest that because she was fluffing so much for no reason and a mafia would know better than to look that way (WIFOM) he was more concerned about HTS' fluff. Third, the wagon thing is all based on poor logic, from whichever perspective, but I can see why someone might come to that conclusion. It would make more sense if there was only one wagon at the end of Day1 however. The only point I agree reads actually scummy is the one that depends on whether or not he saw her defense. | ||
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On December 10 2014 14:52 Fecalfeast wrote: sheepalfeast rasputin you didnt use the voting thread I will actually use a post here to thank you for reminding me, and also with the timestamp explanation. @.@ We were shooting ahead in time, lol. | ||
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On December 10 2014 14:58 Vivax wrote: Let's say GB was the towniest guy in the last game I played with him, and he was scum. Super active and to the point since the start of D1, aggressively pushing his "reads". Half the town was afk but still, he was a super tryhard scummer and I totes misread him. Cba to read him thoroughly atm, if you want you can point me to the interesting bits that warrant a read. The interesting bits...he's got a 4-page filter (excluding the page before the game) and I can barely remember what he's said. Several non-essential posts about being bored, not reading, etc. That said, going back through I do actually see more reads/probing questions than I remembered, primarily dealing with Templar. I'm trying to determine if he should be taken at face value or not. | ||
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On December 10 2014 19:31 Tubesock wrote: I was pissed. I'm still mad. Once Koshi responded that my post was completely worthless due to the claim which I missed. I reverted to my previous read of Viv and sheeped him. I calmed down a bit and thought about my scum read on Obi, my uncertainty about Rasputin, and realized that all through their talk about Xatas they never cited NB as a claimed role. So, I ninja'd back my vote to 27NB. Why would we? NB never claimed a role. If she did and I missed it, please link. There was a miscommunication involving a caroling vid, but she flat out said that was not a claim. That list is getting way more attention than necessary. It was never that important to begin with, and if she says that iffy was meant as null and people to look at was meant as scum, then fine. She should know. Regardless, it should raise enough doubt to get those of you who are hyper-focusing (and have been from the start) on froggy and NB cause it's convenient and they were the first to draw attention to take a step back and actually look at some of the other players in the game. The point that she is not as strong a scum case as before does call into question Xatalos' decision to vote her when he wasn't comfortable with it before. Maybe he has no other scum reads (kinda scary), but if so, he has time to defend himself. | ||
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Dude, give me something non-reactionary. Why, of all the people here, were your only scum reads HTS and 27nb? If they were your strongest scum reads, why? OWS is obviously scummy, of course, no matter how many times he's townread me, but your play only makes sense if you have no one else you think could be scum. I find that hard to believe. The 27nb push is weak. Back up your push, prove to me it's strong with or without her list clarification (where you are claiming that she had a section specifically labeled "null" when she didn't), and I will change my vote on you. Or at least show why you think she's a better lynch than players like OWS and FF, liancourt, or me even. xP That's my issue with you. All the other stuff Vivax said wasn't strong by itself, as I've already mentioned. | ||
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Eh, I don't really have the time to answer this, to be honest. You can see it sprinkled through my other posts. I'll try to be back in enough time to change my vote if it's warranted, but gotta work. Ciao. | ||
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Yup | ||
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On December 11 2014 11:22 Damdred wrote: I'm sorry i've been gone for so long, really sick just got released from hospital i'm going to try to catch up shortly Dude, take it easy if you have to. This is just a game. Doin' alright now? | ||
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Simply put, Xatalos' defense of his reads on 27nb was not adequate for me. I asked for a simple thing, to show me why he thought that bunnies was so much more scummy than anyone else in the thread. His strongest read (at least to my eyes) was against OWS, and most of his reads were about the people voting him. He spent most of his time trying to refute points that Vivax made against him which I didn't agree with in the first place...so obviously I'm not going to care if he makes the same arguments I more or less made for him when Vivax first started that push. Tube made a good point, though. I didn't catch why those last two last-minute votes. @FF, dude, you posted that without the strikethroughs. I verified that it was right in the vote thread, but that post up there doesn't prove your point at all. | ||
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I read your filter. I still don't see why you changed your vote. Care to enlighten me? | ||
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Why did you ninjasheep him? You've sheeped others openly. And why Koshi? He was loud, I'll grant, and had a more developed 27nb read than most of the other players on her, but that just leads right back to the tunnel vision thing, for me anyway. | ||
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Don't want much of anything from you at this point. You probably just got sidetracked by more aggressive players instead of answering my question properly...at least, I'm willing to give you that benefit of the doubt unless I see a recurring pattern. Not seeing any reason not to lynch someone is an argument I'd expect if you: 1) Had no real scum reads you felt strongly enough to pursue <- the crux of the question I directed at you Day 1 2) Had to choose between multiple wagons (not the case here) As for GB, I think he might be a good player to press for more reads...where are those promised reads, btw??? However, my gut feeling is his play is not scum-motivated. Those who have played with him before might be able to shed more light on that. Damdred voted for him, didn't he? I'd like to hear from both GB and Damdred if they're about. | ||
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On December 11 2014 23:07 Xatalos wrote: There were a couple of decent lynches (27nb, FF, OWS) and I didn't see it as either necessary or realistic to start pushing another wagon when lynching 27nb was a perfectly fine choice. Not having any reason not to lynch her wasn't my whole reason for lynching her, just one of them. Certainly I wasn't going to defend her for no reason. How do you come to the conclusion that his play isn't scum-motivated? I'm a bit curious. He seems detached from the thread and not really too interested in what's happening. I usually associate that with scum. There are a lot of things about his play that can be associated with scum, it's true. I've prodded at him a few times because of it and was about to make a push, when I filter-dived again. There is more in that filter than I remembered, and the posts that first had me leery...well, I'm thinking there are probably better lynches tomorrow. Regardless, if a ton of people die tonight a lot of this speculation might turn into wasted posts. I'm reserving getting too heavily into scum reads until those flips come out, mostly because of the posting limit. If you felt equally about those players, so pushed 27nb, I can understand that. I might have argued that more options than just one is better, but that answer right there would have been enough for me to change my vote from you Xata. Not that it matters now. I just was trying to understand your thought process. | ||
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Tube, you've seen SL play. He's not the most logical person on the planet, to say the least. You really think he's being coached by other scum in this insanity? GB stating that SL is town is based on SL being highly readable. It's why I pressured him when he was acting all weird in the beginning of the game...and why I won't support a lynch on him now. Even if he is spouting nonsense. | ||
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You basically roleclaimed with no pressure on and nothing to show for it. | ||
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On December 12 2014 10:55 sicklucker wrote: rsoultin King of saying this ive already said and looking smart Sorry SL. I do get what you're saying now -_-. It just didn't make sense to me the way that you said it, but you're definitely right. | ||
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On December 12 2014 10:58 Holyflare wrote: About 1000 people have role claimed. Should be super simple for mafia to just hit all blues because of it. This is true. But most of them were named VT or other more or less useless (now) roles. Not bright, granted, but it's not on the same level as if you were, say, kush claiming scrooge. And he just didn't give a shit. So Ritoky doing something equivalent to that is super questionable. Especially since he is actually playing where kush was not. | ||
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On December 12 2014 11:05 Half the Sky wrote: 2am...FML. Good night, will continue on this around lunchtime or so. LS, I will remember to follow up on Oats, but I'd say for now, it's not looking good. He just seemed way more involved. Rasputin, since you're here, can you give a comparison of Oats' gameplay as you know it versus what we're seeing now, (or if you have an opinion, then what?) we are trying to see if we can compare playstyles and get something alignment indicative. My opinion from SMIV is that it's not looking good, but this isn't a mini game either. LS gave a load of links to go through a few pages ago. Heh, he's certainly less present this game, but the only one I'm comfortable giving a meta-read on is SL, and that's just cause he's so careless it's obvious. As a near plynch, sure...but I wouldn't vote Oats Day 2 unless I see something scummy from his corner, and he's reading more null than anything to me right now. | ||
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Yeah, so obviously not going to vote him just cause if he were here right now I'd be tempted to throw him out a window, but...dude, compared to me at early game I was angelic. When did you start channeling the ass? @Tube If that's supposed to be slam, you're failing. | ||
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On December 12 2014 11:54 sicklucker wrote: Like ritokys gonna sort himself out in the night. Just treat him like we were gonna vote him out and claimed cop. We cant vote him out. He can prove hes town tomorrow. If he does notill be the first to vote him. Lol, you were fine with killing Kush (via vig) but not Ritoky when they've basically done the same thing? Typical nonsensical SL. | ||
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On December 12 2014 12:00 sicklucker wrote: no I was number 1 against it. Way to show your observation skills. And screw you That was FF. Dude -_- I am really getting people mixed up this game. Too many new faces, too many posts. Fair enough. I retract my nonsensical statement lol. | ||
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That was in response to me, not you, pretty sure. Your case is not reasonable. Also, even if it was, I ignore meta reads to a fault, so...find something else or go home, at least if you want me to convince to vote on HF with you. I'm leaning toward voting you, actually. Scum or idiot...scum I want to get rid of, idiot I can do without anyway. -_- But I want to see some more absentee players enter this conversation first. | ||
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On December 12 2014 12:22 ritoky wrote: Scum or idiot, while giving no examples or either and still ignoring my reasons for claiming opening the present. Here's a better line of thought for you. Your top scum read was on Xata last phase because his read on 27NB made absolutely 0 sense in your eyes. In that read of Xata you pretty much say you're reading 27NB as town and at the very least you imply it. If you read her that much as town, then why did you do basically nothing to try to move the vote? This is pretty much the largest defense of her/counterpush you offer: The logic is simple, Ritoky. You either: Claimed when you decided to open the present (thus eliminating the possibility of passing it during day phase) and risked being 1.killed (yolo) 2.RBd by mafia 3.killed by mafia (which if you weren't killed will happen Night 2 unless we're all reading the rules wrong and the kill present delays a night) - Thus IDIOTIC Or, claimed when you decided to open the present and risked being 1.killed but nothing else because you already know that mafia won't do anything to you - Thus MAFIA Or, claimed but you never did anything with it, but you want to give people a reason not to lynch you - Thus MAFIA Or, you're randomly claiming it in a bid to get mafia to kill or rb you instead of anyone else - Thus NOT a power role And as for why I didn't defend 27nb strongly, I did tell people to lay off her and HTS, and did encourage people to make other reads. I did not go all gungho on it because she was a NULL read to me. If you guys try to lynch one of my TOWN reads, you will see me defend them with a lot more gusto. | ||
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Unless of course you are an idiot, which is possible. I believe you claimed to open it, and will pass it on during the day phase, then claim that you were roleblocked. Yolo. | ||
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You should be flattered that I'm not dismissing you as one, actually. | ||
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On December 12 2014 12:54 Tubesock wrote: To All of you who are Actually Nice: We lost 6 people. Clearly our D1 strategy is not working. I'm putting in effort to CHANGE MY PLAY. Filter Dive yourself. Tell me you don't think you are scummy??? I saw Alakaslam read me scum. I saw a couple others say I'm worthless. I Filter dove myself and holy hell, I sure made things easy. D1 Tubesock is SCUMMY SCUM SCUM. I would have lynched myself. Now, continue your debate on scummy defenses and not reevaluate your focus on what actually matters. If you think talking to someone who is trying to add in points that are listed in the scummy side of play in the freaking TL Mafia guide (meta reading, nitpicking, fluff, spamming etc) and you allow that to base your decisions, Nice already lost. Lynch me now so I don't have to wait around till mafia NK's me. D1 consisted of almost nothing but meta reads and I feels. SHOCKING a Nice died. Let's focus on behavior. Don't agree, you better wagon the fuck out of me. Too lazy to READ for my votes??? Ok, I'll make it easy. ##Vote: The_Templar ##Vote: Sicklucker ##Vote: GlowingBear ##Vote: KelsierSC When my 5th show's you'll know. I already mentioned by name these 4. My last night post had the top three. Kelsier I have said was Scum for a bit. I even asked GlowingBear about it. He didn't respond to me. Huh. Want to talk about someone not on this list? Or if I fucking care if there is 5 or 6 or 19 Mafia?? Who the fuck cares?? Step up. Dude, you're obnoxious. Talk about what you want to talk about. You got reads? Make them. You have questions? Ask. This just makes me want to start ignoring you on principle. If you're scum, that's great. Proceed. But if you're town you're the one who needs to shape up. | ||
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##vote Ritoky The fact that slam didn't express doubt when he said 27nb was not scum only means he did not express doubt. He either did not tell people he had any doubts, was arrogant enough to think he was 100% right, or he was 100% right because he already knows who is and isn't scum this game. Sorry, Tube. I know you are trying, and I do agree on the meta-reads (if you've been reading my posts and others about me you know that). But no doubt =/= town necessarily. Some would argue it's even more of a mafia trait. | ||
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On December 12 2014 14:17 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Can you guys stop posting ridiculous shit now? It's not helping anybody and this game has already thrown me for a loop. Yo, OWS. Comments, thoughts, reads, anything productive? You keep on saying you don't know what you're doing, apparently not realizing that almost every town here probably has no clue. Give it a whirl, will you? | ||
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On December 12 2014 07:21 froggynoddy wrote: I'm sorry why are you giving reads at night?? Am happy to answer any concerns you may have but during the day please. As I said, might be circumstantial, but it's a bit convenient that he now doesn't have to concern himself with LM...and he went out of his way to put it off until the day phase to respond. | ||
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- Commenting that one of LS' town reads voted another town read (like that is at all significant) - Random townread on slam based on...what? meta from a game slam was afk in for rl reasons...yeah, that's strong (ignores this when pointed out to him and continues to read slam as town) - Keeps reading into comments to claim that ppl are saying they know things that they can't know: i.e. HTS on kush claiming scrooge not considering he was scum, SL on the kill present with Damdred thing, Templar on mafia RB as if it isn't a /possibility/ that mafia might have one - Nitpicking HTS for froggy in null section for no apparent reason (at least he doesn't explain it if he has one) - FF read is entirely about FF "sheeping" Ritoky's reasons for scumreading LS (meta) - weak case with so much available - Nitpicking yet again for froggy in null section, this time in FFs reads, and complains about them all even though FF was specifically asked to make reads on those people - Move off of LS onto FF seems to coincide with general thread feelings - Case against HF is almost entirely (if not entirely) meta - Takes cue from GB about HF still being alive and immediately starts tunneling (after stupid you think i'm mafia exchange with GB) - 1 in 3 kill chance means nothing when we have no way to confirm that he opened a present, only that he says he did - if he was town and did open a present only an idiot would claim that to be RBd or killed by mafia the next night, which he refuses to see despite the fact that it's glaringly obvious So yeah. I'd say that's enough to vote him for. At least it meets my threshold. | ||
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Things generally don't "make" people mafia, anyway. It's usually about the whole picture. | ||
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On December 12 2014 21:24 GlowingBear wrote: Slam is town. Holyflare is mafia. Ritoky's reason could be legit. I admit I tunnelled a bit after the present thing. I can, although with some reluctance, see his actions coming from a town perspective. More from a mafia perspective, but... I'll have to reevaluate his play in this game. I want to lynch Holyflare today. Why HF? And no, don't think so. Ritoky claiming so we know how he died is BS. It would just increase the possibilities from mafia/vig to mafia/vig/present, making things more difficult to decipher, not easier. Claiming before use of the power renders the power useless because now mafia has a sure thing to disable/take out over a guess. It just doesn't make sense, and while town cannot make sense, his refusal to see that is ridiculous. | ||
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On December 12 2014 22:02 GlowingBear wrote: Yeah, that's a point. I agree with you. The problem is: HF is giving me scum vibes and although I know he busses a lot, I find hard to believe that they would both make a case against each other. I agree, so why is HF "giving you scum vibes". I will take evidence over feelings every time, so what is it that makes you think HF is scum? | ||
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Alright, two things. One, claiming having a present is not the worst move as scum because clearly ppl are going to WIFOM the shit out of it as you're doing now. There were five NKs last night. Even if we assume 1 was the present, 1 was the vig and 1 was Marley...which given two of the deaths were Disgruntled Retail Workers chances are high there's at least a Branch Manager with another bullet in there somewhere...that's at least 2 more mafia NKs tonight. We know there are at least 3 scum given the OP, because one scum can't shoot twice. At best we're playing 19 on 3 right now, likely more. Also, "waiting" to see if Rit comes through is faulty cause as mafia he can NK whoever you ask for to legitimize his claim, or go damn it didn't work oops my bad if he doesn't like your choice. There is actually no possible way to validate his claim, and that is why it is a good scum move...especially if his usefulness as mafia was expended with Scrooge's death. Second, I gave GB a chance. He's been claiming throughout the game that he will be coming out with great reads, or amazing cases, and not once has he produced anything. I've seen lists with no explanations. I've seen ppl have to ask him multiple times to explain. And I've seen BS it just feels this way to me answers. GB, yes, I do want you to make your case on HF. Prove me wrong. And before you say anything about calling attention to your scummy play multiple times, I'm responding WIFOM right now. Oh, and here's another WIFOM moment for you; Damdred was the only one voting for you. ##vote GB Bring on the reads, scummy one. | ||
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On December 13 2014 09:13 sicklucker wrote: Damdred died to a present tho this is like mostly confirmed because the veg would not have killed anyone who died. Kush would have died anyway. They have a bank manager or the other killer its kind of irrelevant but they definitely have one. rsoultin your post was pure fluff that I already explained you got a bad habit of this. And yes ritokys claim is validated if he kills a mafia. Geez, SL. One, you clearly did not understand my post if you think I'm just repeating you, since we reached different conclusions. Why do you think that the person you guys tell him to hit will be mafia? Or that as town he would instantly get mafia any more than a vig would? Are you going to kill him if his NK hits town? Or go, well, at least you tried? The point is that you can't know. Why won't you consider that Damdred might have been killed by scum? There is no guarantee that the present killed him, or that he even opened it. Just that there is one less in the game. And again, you can't know what killed Damdred. He's a decent enough player to be NKd. Or killed because mafia knows he might have a power to use the next night. | ||
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He's a brand new player so in general I'm giving him more leeway than others...but I can see their point. | ||
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On December 09 2014 11:54 sicklucker wrote: Think about it the Joyful Child role has no description but it is a role its basically vanilla town 2.0. I have a present and im a joyful child it adds up. Its pretty obvious. Im pretty sure something dandred said makes me ride or die with him maybe gb too. Let me look it up. Then: On December 09 2014 12:01 sicklucker wrote: Also Gb didnt get my child reference HE IS NOT OF THE CHILDREN. i need to stop spamming small posts for there is a limit Then: On December 10 2014 00:52 sicklucker wrote: Also Gb just said hes a role for no reason. Wtf man do not open that present. Then: On December 10 2014 01:02 sicklucker wrote: Ok I just sent my gift now to someone im sure is town and not going to get killed tonight. Open it if you think im town its not the death present I think. I think a mafia starts with that one but im not sure. You thought GB had claimed a role, you already said you'd ride or die with Damdred, and you say in your last post that you're sure they're town and won't be killed. Tell me that's not obvious? Pretty sure the only other you even mention as a townread before you said you sent your gift was HF. | ||
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On December 13 2014 09:55 GlowingBear wrote: Seriously guys. I haven't seen such and inconsistency game from holyflare. What's inconsistent here? Help me out. He's saying you're null leaning scum, at least as far as I can tell. | ||
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On December 13 2014 10:06 liancourt wrote: for real that it? i thought nothing of that post and just went over it. I was also assuming that there's around 5 scum in 26 player setup. i thought there was something in his playstyle that was scummy with all the votes on him. He was also trying to talk like slam to slam and being obnoxious. I can see the read but I don't really agree with it. At least, I don't find it damning. | ||
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You I do believe are town. I trust a meta-read on you because you're generally haphazard (that's not a criticism in this context). The point was mafia!Rit can just shoot whoever you ask him to as mafia or town with a KS. Especially since probably more than one person will suggest who he should shoot, and probably not all of us will be on the same page. Even if all his choices were mafia, it could be considered the same as bussing to earn himself a lasting town read, or he could claim his KS was roleblocked. Regardless there is absolutely no way to verify his alignment by seeing what happens tonight unless he is killed by mafia/vig and flips town. The KS itself means nothing. | ||
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On December 13 2014 10:11 GlowingBear wrote: Sigh fiiiiiine. I'll explain then make the fucking case on him. Argh. He says in the beginning of the game he reads me town for doing things completely wrong. I just did one, in his point of view. He is reading me as mafia for it. Do you see the inconsistency? | ||
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On December 13 2014 10:11 GlowingBear wrote: What's inconsistent here? Help me out. He's saying you're null leaning scum, at least as far as I can tell. Sigh fiiiiiine. I'll explain then make the fucking case on him. Argh. He says in the beginning of the game he reads me town for doing things completely wrong. I just did one, in his point of view. He is reading me as mafia for it. Do you see the inconsistency? | ||
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I see what looks like a progression of a read there GB. Or possibly a reaction to you trying to push him. Neither of those are necessarily mafia tells, and the first is flat-out townie. You saying he's being more inconsistent than you're used to is also pure meta. Just like most of Rit's haphazard case. @Bats Do you have a case? If you do, I haven't seen it. | ||
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Your second argument would carry more weight if he wasn't the first one to vote her. Froggy would have seemed to be a simple one to convince people of at the time, imo. Especially with the claim that if someone seems scummy to you, they should be voted as scum. Your first argument I can see. | ||
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On December 13 2014 12:32 batsnacks wrote: Vivax vote Trfel with me? Or maybe rsoultin. He has a stick up his ass this game. He was a lot calmer last game. I've never seen anyone engage me as calmly as he did in Student Mafia and I was out in full force. Lol, I think you called me a stubborn, ignorant ass, actually. But maybe I was a calm stubborn ignorant ass? (Not sure where the not calm comment is coming from, though.) Also think Oats called me something like depressive and...another word that means an asshole, I can't remember. It's not really that unusual for me to take a strong stance on something or someone. I think anyone from my last game would corroborate that. Regardless of meta reads... You never did tell me your case on HF bats. | ||
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For instance, your meta-read on me was laughable. SL doesn't like me at all this game (or most of last game) and still called you on it. You've been pretty all over the place lately. That and if you're town wouldn't you want us to lynch the right person? Or you're just content throwing names out... | ||
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I will say, though, that GB looks like a good lynch to me today. Drunk or not. He's managed to have an excuse all game...not sitting well with me at all. | ||
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GB I don't like for all the excuses. His reads are half-assed and usually he doesn't bother to support or back things up. More concerning to me than that is his call for everyone to roleclaim. We've got 3 downed disgruntled workers, 1 downed joyful child and 1 claimed one. We've also got a claimed ghost. And if I remember correctly another might have claimed but I'm not 100% on that. Add to that the masons and the rest of the ghosts? Other than a few outliers there, that tells scum that everyone who hasn't claimed and isn't scum probably has a role. It's a terrible idea and I'm assuming GB has been around enough to know that. Benefits scum more than town. I'm also inclined to take a look at FF, but he's more null/null leaning scum for me due to his sheeping/few posts and bats is similar...I don't like that he's not backing up all his claims of who is scum and who isn't. But to be honest he got like this the one time before when I played with him and he was town, and I'm leery of being too quick to pull the trigger on him again. Trfel I think is a great spot to look to on Day 3 if he still doesn't follow through with the reads he promised. That said, there are a lot of people here, so if he's really going through it with a fine-tooth comb I could see why it's taking so long. | ||
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On December 13 2014 13:51 Vivax wrote: I do have a question and it's the fact that you bring up more points on ritoky being scum than GB being scum. You make a whole list of points that in your opinion speak for ritoky being mafia but your reasons for voting GB are that he's not living up to your standards and making excuses. From my perspective your preference should be weighted towards ritoky. Why isn't that the case? @ Bats (and thread) Trfel didn't copypaste anything from me last game. I only gave him general advice on the game, he made his own reads and posts. For today I would prioritize FF and GB given the NKs and the arguments on the two which are less gut based than the others, also I'm waiting for you (bats) to give me your thoughts on the other guys I mentioned, please. My initial vote on GB was for pressure. I more or less stated as much in the Bring on the reads, scummy comment at the end. He's still not performing. | ||
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On December 13 2014 14:14 sicklucker wrote: Your case is way too good on this makes me suspect you I feel like you were role hunting or copied this out of the scum qt. Your correct mafia could sniff this out except there more likely to wait to do something about it as hes going to die on his own 1/3 times. Its a waste of kp especially with a rber who can get ride of it with 1 visit forever. Also if its the seer present they can kill him the next night before he reveals so its only 1/3 presents that can hurt them the next night. Its just too much of a coincidence but possible altho very unlikely which is why I said 90% not 100%. Also not that important. But you gave it more thought at the time then me which is interesting. Kinda dumb for me as mafia to post something from a scum QT, no? Though at least my point has now been made. Not hard at all to guess where that present was going. (To be honest, though, if you're even inclined to listen which I can understand if you're not given how often we've butted heads today, I was actually going back through your filter to find out where you'd said it/why I thought you'd said it. I usually do doublecheck things when people say I'm getting stuff mixed up. Done it several times this game.) | ||
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I do get the feeling that ritoky and GB are the same alignment. I also think, however, that you need to broaden your reads to more than just presents. (May sound funny coming from me I know) but I don't think you've talked about much else this game. If you have...I don't remember much of it. | ||
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On December 13 2014 14:24 sicklucker wrote: So heres why I think its unlikely gb is mafia since he does not have his full wits. So gb gives his present to ritoky. I disagree but its most likely from a town perspective let me explain. Ritiky was a mislynch candidate its really bad for a mafia to give a present to a mislynch target because a present is the same as a role and he can clear himself like if ritoky kills mafia in the night. The only way gb is mafia and gives the present to him is if they are both mafia which still does not make any sense because they should just never mention it. Like only a town is going to say they have a present because they can look scummy if it ends up in bad hands or used incorrectly. Like mafia almost always never says they have a present. Theres a reason only 2 of the 3 present givers came out because the third is mafia. Oh and gb sent his present to ritoky like 3 hours after the game started. I dont think a mafia jumps the gun like that. Okay, so have you considered the scenario where one mafia might give another mafia a present (because obviously giving town one isn't going to be to their advantage). Said mafia could claim it (especially a NK but also a seer cause they know everyone's alignment already), not open it, and pass it on to another mafia again. Thus delaying a potential lynch of the suspicious mafia member another day. I'm not saying this is what happened, but is it not possible? | ||
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On December 13 2014 14:42 sicklucker wrote: Yes of course which is why im not saying their for sure town just more likely. Individually they dont seem townie but together they do if that makes sense. Like I have them both null leaning town but together that makes them a pretty strong town. Its really risky and bad to align themselves like this which is more fuel to suspect their town. Well, much as I'm tempted to call that WIFOM SL...pretty much everything to do with presents is WIFOM, so I can't fault you that much. Please try to make some more real reads though. The multiple calls to all roleclaim from GB is almost enough in and of itself to justify my lynching him, given the doubts I have regarding so many others playing right now. Maybe his case will convince me otherwise...but it'd have to be one hell of a case. | ||
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I'd support that lynch if people don't like GB for it...or he convinces me to change my mind about him. Also would support ritoky for lynch...just don't see that one happening today. Does anyone else have any other cases to consider? | ||
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I'm not 100% townreading you but you're higher on my list than most. SL is a town read. Both Viva and Xatalos I think. LS though that's mostly based off a roleclaim. I think that's it lol. Damdred died, damn him. lots of nulls and slights this game tch. though no scum has flipped yet so I guess that's normal. | ||
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Heh, don't actually agree on that one, Viva. FF isn't the worst lynch we could do (which is why I wouldn't cry tears over it) but based off of NKs when we're not sure who or what killed who...and also assuming that there weren't any other reasons for killing them other than their scum reads...seems like a stretch. I'm willing to entertain a proper case against FF though. Even willing to look at him more closely myself, but he does come off a lot like another kush lol >< | ||
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I didn't make your list! Lol, I was certain you'd list me as scum this game xP A game with SL and Rsoul without SL calling Rsoul scum is no real game at all. | ||
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I reread the case on feast...he's almost a plynch for me. Like I said, no tears but...he's not my first choice. Please don't yell at me again ;o; I'm so sensitive and all you know xP Plus I just read the post where you called me a gnat. NOT FAIR. ^Point of the post was I'll vote FF if no one better is being pushed, and only then | ||
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On December 13 2014 15:54 batsnacks wrote: You lowered your standards for me after a game where none of my reads were wrong? Lies and slander! You tried to lynch me. Twice! >> You and Damdred. Hurts my heart. That said he did play well...apart from the whole, helpful not coming across scummy part, lol. | ||
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On December 13 2014 16:02 batsnacks wrote: Not that this is relevant, but I only tried to lynch you, and HTS, because my read on kush was right. That was literally the only reason. For the first one, yes. And yeah, you read kush, I read HTS, and battle of the stubborns. Only you had Damdred on your side. The traitor ;o; Anyhow, the actual point that I derailed myself from was I've learned to be less quick to jump down you're throat, especially if you're making reads. Even if you do sound grumpy or irritated when you're making them. That's probably part of what SL is referring to, too. So, good thing, yeah? For you anyway xP | ||
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- HF - GB - Ritoky - Tube - FF - random bats vote on HTS - Oats <- Viva Trfel, those are the ones ppl are voting on right now...if you're looking for places to start | ||
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On December 13 2014 16:58 Vivax wrote: It bugs me that he sees it as semi confirmed that Damdred got killed by a present, and then something about the vig that doesn't make sense. Only mafia knows who their KP hit, so it gave me the impression of TMI since he seems so confident about what he says. Eh, I'll let him speak to that. Everyone speaks before they think things through sometimes, and everyone makes assumptions, however SL tends to do both quite frequently. If you're saying that's enough to scumread him...I'd respectfully disagree. | ||
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The seeming personality change from Day 1 to Day 2 I can kind of see but...what is the case on this guy? This smacks of picking random arbitrary reasons to lynch people again, and if we keep doing that, we might as well just be throwing darts at a dartboard. Or just give up now lol and cede the game. Someone voting on Tube, help me out...what am I missing? Also, if we're talking about scumslipping for him, why aren't we talking about it for me? I pointed out to SL how he broadcasted that he was turning his present over to Damdred...which would make him a good target for a KS beyond being a claimed named VT. I must be missing something because this wagon isn't really making sense to me. @Tube Dude, when people ask you for scumreads they generally want you to explain why, and making pre-flipped associations (associations that so and so is scum because someone over there is also scum, when neither have been revealed as scum yet) doesn't tend to hold a lot of weight. If you can explain yourself, that would be great. Sidenote: I think (correct me if I'm wrong here) Oats' point is lynching FF as a plynch doesn't make sense with his filter length. Lynching him for a case involving scumtells, and we have a good deal of material to work with, would be a good thing. I'm still reading him as null, perhaps null-leaning scum for not contributing a whole lot to the convos, but not like OMG you're SCUMMY. Can anyone make a case against him who thinks he's a good lynch? | ||
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On December 14 2014 00:04 Xatalos wrote: I don't really see anyone as "100% scum" right now. We'll just have to go with the best options and hopefully gain more information from the wagons and flips (especially after we get our first scum flip). There should be quite a few Mafia with this many players so it's actually a bit peculiar that so many people feel relatively townish/null, but I feel like we're pretty much guaranteed to hit scum within Tube/FF and we can go from there. It's not just the scumslip with Tube. He's significantly altered his playstyle twice now - once after the first NK's and again now that there's a wagon on him. It doesn't seem like something natural for a townie to do. His reads are also pretty much senseless and apparently pulled out of thin air. He still hasn't clarified his reads... Is he hunting for scum? No, he's just listing scumreads without any logic that gan be grasped (by me at least). What's your own "slip"? I don't completely follow. I don't think you have to always mention the possibility of someone being scum if he seems townish enough and has claimed on top of it. FF is partly a policy lynch, I guess. He's clearly making no effort to be actually helpful and he'll never be a townread, so he'd be a massive danger at LYLO even as town. Besides, he's done several things that are scum-motivated (like claiming credit for being on the 27nb wagon despite just ninja/sheepvoting it close to deadline, voting for 27nb and then weirdly ignoring her after the claim/unclaim stuff, overall not showing any interest in scumhunting unless pressured). No, I can't say that I feel 100% about anyone either, but some seem pretty scummy vice just sorta scummy, so either I'm the only one seeing/feeling that (which either means I'm wrong and seeing things where they aren't (possible)/not explaining myself well (also possible) or ppl are getting lost in the thread and going with comfortable/are scum themselves). GB, for instance. I won't say I'm 100% on him, but I did have an itching suspicion he might be a role (not because he half-claimed it, but because he kept delaying his reads like something else might inform it) but calling for a mass role reveal multiple times...yuck. No power role would want that. No plugged-in townie would think that was a good idea. Tube...yeah he's weird. Granted. And the personality changes. I'd only half-noticed the second one, but figured that was just cause people beat him up for the Slam talk weirdness and he actually personally insulted Slam in there. But it's his first game, so him not knowing how to give reads is possible. I get the feeling that as long as he's trying he's probably not our best lynch, at least for today. SL accused me of "slipping" because I could trace his convo and see where he hinted strongly that Damdred would be the one receiving his present. Also mentioning that mafia could easily target him to take that out of play, since essentially at the time he was the only "revealed" power role. Along with Ritoky (though it could be argued that since he said he'd open it and Damdred made no such claim, could have been waiting to see if it killed him or not...I still think the claim itself is scummy for reasons previously stated). As for FF...would we even know when we're in LYLO? Most all of your points could be explained by apathy...just feels more policy than anything. I guess my main problem with most of the wagons right now is they're not strongly supported and I see players that we could actually make a relatively solid case against. | ||
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On December 14 2014 00:43 GlowingBear wrote: Ok, now that I'm sober (although extremely hangover), and before I continue with the case on Holyflare, I want to say a word about presents. Although talking about the power presents give is useless, there is an important thing about its mechanics that we should consider: Mafia is unlikely to give presents to town + Show Spoiler [Why?] + They have 66% chance of giving a important power to town. That said, if a mafia holds a present, he is most likely to give it to a partner and not opening it until they can see if the present town holds is the death one. Town, in the other hand, will give it to anyone day1 and the townie will most likely open it because they have a very good chance of opening a power present. This means: If damdred opened a present and flipped town, sicklucker is most likely town. If ritoky claims he's got a present and that he is opening it, he's most likely town, because mafia would hold it and give to another partner to see if that was the death present or not. There is no motive for mafia to say they will open it, since that, if they open the death present, they will flip mafia anyway, so ritoky's explanation actually looks fair. That's it guys. Btw, no mass claiming. It was a bad idea of mine. I've just realised mafia will have problems with so many possible powers against them. Nice recant. Took you long enough. I'm not the first one to say no, that's stupid, just one of the first to scumread you for the mass role claim. You're still ignoring my comment that Mafia is fully capable of fake claiming the opening of a present (and what was Ritoky's main excuse, that it would be dumb to open a present as mafia if it could be the kill present?), claim that he had a KS, then follow through because mafia does have a KS. That said, I'm comfortable waiting to see if he dies tonight, if no one else who was scumreading him Day 1 feels inclined to do the same today because they think he's a stupid (or crafty) town. | ||
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On December 14 2014 00:50 GlowingBear wrote: Rsoultin, here is an example where mass claiming won the game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/462188-iv-titanic-mafia-it-has-been-a-privilege So, really, scumreading me for that is silly. Scumreading you for it on Day 2 when mafia still has all their KSs is not silly when you consider that a large number of town without roles have already claimed and you were calling for masons and ghosts. It is also very scummy because we do not know the number of any given role in the game. Don't play dumb with me GB. You're not drunk anymore. | ||
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On December 14 2014 00:49 Xatalos wrote: So you think GB is the most likely scum? I agree that he's done somewhat fishy stuff like asking for roleclaims and such. You'd need to convince me about that "close to 100% scum" though... He also made that HF case after all (at least partly lol). I wouldn't really call what Tube's been doing as "trying". He basically disappeared when I asked him to explain his reads. Before that he didn't really do anything noteworthy. I think your argument against ritoky was that it wouldn't be so easy to validate him being town after this. I think you're missing the point that when ritoky claimed, even in the worst case scenario <b>(if all the presents except the one given to Damdred were in scum hands)</b> ritoky would be risking either 1) the 33% risk of immediately dying or 2) the 50% risk of being counter-claimed and dying if he fakeclaimed opening it. I think both risks are unbearable for scum when easily the best approach seems to be just to hide it. Well, the ABSOLUTELY worst scenario would be that sicklucker is scum too and Mafia knew everything about the presents and thus could safely fakeclaim. But then why would sicklucker pass it on to town (Damdred)? And why would they claim at all especially in the stupid way that ritoky did? Apathy is usually associated to scum though it's not excluded to them. The LM case I think also points at more than just apathy for FF.... His stance on 27nb during D1 is so unnatural. If all the presents except the one given to Damdred were in scum hands, let's follow this logic train, yes? They kill Damdred who obviously had the present and can't pass it on to someone else until the next day. Now they can claim what they want because no one can CC them. It's not a wild and crazy theory. It does assume that Ritoky isn't stupid/suicidal. I've already acknowledged I have an anti-idiot bias, but I'd rather play that way than assume that no one's actions mean anything because no one is ever thinking. -shrugs- | ||
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My impression was ritoky and GB were already being scumread (ritoky more than GB) so it was a gamble. My impression may be wrong. I can see a legitimacy ploy (just like bussing a fellow mafia) if a mafia member is being scumread. And no, GB, I don't. Masons narrows down who might have roles for scum. Scum can claim named VTs if they want or go with the whole we don't know how many could be this role card if questioned about claiming something more powerful. I feel it's better for masons to only claim if they're in danger of being lynched. | ||
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That said, I don't have strong scum reads on others, is the problem. Lots of questions, nulls, nulls leaning scum, nulls leaning town. A few stronger town reads. It's hard to know much without at least one flipped scum. That's why I keep pressing on my strong scum reads. I'd rather lynch them than question marks. There are too many questions marks for the LYLO argument to sit well with me...we'll never get to them all before town loses lol. | ||
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It's not far off from EoD and there are a very small number of people in the thread right now so...if folks think I'm wrong about GB and/or participation stays down like this I think the best of the other names brought forward is probably Trfel. I did want to give him the benefit of the doubt another day, but to be frank, (pure policy and meta here, bleh) his sheer lack of presence in this thread is by far the most different from what I've seen of his play vice the other lurkers. His reads seemed strange to me, too, as I recall...town can be wrong, but for someone who can be pretty analytical they seem very lacking. I don't think he's talked about anything but not lynching FF...and not being able to keep up with the thread. Similarly to GB, I also see a lot of promises on reads that never get followed through on. Worse than GB actually. He's got less than a 1-page filter, which normally I'd be inclined to ignore, but...that's ridiculous for this game. By contrast Oats only has 3 pages, but most of his posts you can seem him keeping things on topic, pushing discussion, questioning reads and pointing out logic flaws. So, if/when it comes time for vote consolidation, I will be changing my vote to Trfel over Tube or FF. | ||
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On December 14 2014 03:25 batsnacks wrote: I voted Holyflare since no one wants to lynch Trfel with me. I will lynch Trfel with you since I think my scum reads are probably dead in the water lol >< | ||
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On December 14 2014 03:37 GlowingBear wrote: Make a case on me. You're calling me scum multiple times for things that doesn't make me scum. I want you to say mafias motivation for things you call me scum for. I've made my case on you multiple times GB. Unlike you I am not under scrutiny. I've explained what I think and why I think it. As for the gut feel that is contributing to it...what have you really done for town? Falsely brought up mass-claiming like that would be helpful. A bunch of jokes. A bunch of partial reads you have to be prodded on. Many promises you fail to carry out. (Your HF case is still unfinished.) Ritoky you were pressuring a little until others started...which, if you're town, why are you pressuring the guy you think is town (cause you're not going to send anything to mafia as town) then flip right back onto HF as soon as others start pressuring Ritoky? There's something wrong about how you're playing, and the scenario with both you and Ritoky as scum works. It is ballsy like Xata said...but assuming that mafia would never play ballsy...lol. If this is the way town thinks, that's the perfect way for mafia to play. Either way its WIFOM as shit. | ||
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On December 14 2014 03:47 Trfel wrote: As for vanishing in the thread, it was after 3 AM. I needed sleep. I'll be back after lunch. Again, if anyone has any questions for me, I'm happy to answer. Give me something other than no don't lynch FF or excuse number 9999...or however many posts (less than 20) you've posted so far this game. | ||
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On December 14 2014 03:52 GlowingBear wrote: You're so focused on this matter that you fail to properly evaluate what I've brought for holyflare. What do you think of the case? Of the arguments? Why do you think mafia would make a case on one of the strongest players in the game? Do you see ANY mafia motivation behind it? I thought ritoky was mafia. I reevaluated it after putting more thought on it, mostly when I've realised HF is sure to be scum. I'm saying people are town based on gut feelings and probability. I have experience with some players here and I feel comfortable after I see some patterns. Like batsnacks, his townplay is like this. Slam also. It's hard to explain why, because it's more of a feeling than logical reads. I've townread you for the way you evaluated the present thing on sicklucker. I'm still reading you as town. I want you to get out of the tunnel you're currently in. I've already responded to your case GB. Your town reads I'm not arguing with, in a general sense. Your points aren't very strong to me. Sorry. I did consider them. An entrance post and a different read on 27nb than vivax doesn't scream scum to me. I feel like you're mostly basing your HF read on the fact that he wasn't killed first night, and going from there. I'm not the only one with tunnel vision. Yet I am willing to back off you for now to pursue another possible scum, so...-shrugs- We could both be town firing away erroneously, but I still don't think so. I don't understand town giving someone they think is mafia a present, dude...you should want to give it to one of your strongest town reads. You yourself have made this point multiple times. Anyway, Trfel. What do you think of that push since we're probably not going to agree on this. | ||
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On December 14 2014 04:08 Vivax wrote: rsoultin: You clearly didn't read what kita wrote, else you wouldn't be saying this. D1 he made a too scummy to be scum defense of bunnies, said at some point "I'm not really defending her", just pre-lynch he says "Meh I don't really mind if she dies" and who was his scumread throughout this? Froggynoddy. As for his interactions with froggy on D1, we have a grand total of 1, one, ONE question directed to him that lacks followup and looks completely pointless: "So are you saying you have no strong reads either way". And with that being said, your post I'm quoting displays you didn't read Oats as carefully as you claim but instead try to depict him in a favourable light for I don't know what reason. Viva, let me be frank. I have trusted you less and less over your last several posts. Froggynoddy has barely participated so I'd like to see where anyone has had extensive interaction with him. Oats is hard for me to read, but he has made some pretty damn good points this game. One that just so happens to be against your NK analysis FF push, which I have to agree with. Your push makes too many false assumptions. You also seem very laissez faire about trfel which I find hard to believe in town who has played with him before. Xata I trust. I won't say why right now, beyond he seems to be thinking things through, even if our opinions differ. You just keep calling ppl scum when they disagree, and rather than addressing my trfel case you're nitpicking the sidebar that examines the difference between a short filter with nothing and a short filter that actually contributes something to the game. | ||
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Trfel anyone? | ||
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It's cool that you're laying things on the line, but can you talk to any of the other votes going on? | ||
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On December 14 2014 04:36 Tubesock wrote: bah, can you see who and how Sick is protecting and pushing to die? In the context of JUST that page? Sick thinks GB and ritoky are town. He thinks I'm scum. He can't do that as town? (By the way, he has since changed his read on me. Maybe I'm mafia now ) His reasoning is flawed, but his opinion mirrors many others' in the thread. I'm not going to push SL just to try to validate my reads on GB and ritoky. | ||
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GB thinks HF <- see his reasons. I don't agree with them and won't explain them correctly, and he should have a say if he really believes that I think Trfel <- He's been given enough leeway and lurking is drastically different from the way I've seen him play (plus my other scum reads are not getting lynched any more than kel is) | ||
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I am not in favor of turning what I believe to be a mislynch into what I believe to be another mislynch. And you accuse me of tunnelvision. | ||
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On December 14 2014 05:00 liancourt wrote: Consolidate on kel cos tube is putting a lot of effort and mafia well tend not to do that when they have a majority. Case, lian. Same could be said of Trfel which will help consolidate votes. You're the only one pushing kel right now. | ||
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Well, y'all can look at me for my outlier vote, then, cause I'm not voting SL, Tube or HF today. HF in particular has done a great job of fooling me if he's scum so... friggin -_- whatever. Staying on trfel for now, will consolidate to a null read if I have to (and one is available) over my town reads. | ||
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On December 14 2014 05:22 Alakaslam wrote: Like that was looking for a reason o vote tube or HF versus ??? Probably kelsier or FF Tellin Ya folks, ppl up for a bats switch No. Simply, no. Much as lynching bats can be fun...I want scum today. | ||
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Okay, I will vote for trfel today. I will vote for vivax today. I will vote for KSC today. <- these are concessions that they are null leaning scum reads. Can we get to two trains or are we going to play scattershot or worst of two bad choices? GB and ritoky I'd prefer but I don't see them happening. | ||
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##vote: KSC ^ My concession. Those on HF or Tube who don't really think they're scum, please jump on. | ||
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On December 14 2014 05:30 Xatalos wrote: What's the case on HF really? I wasn't impressed with anything posted against him earlier and I think he said he's now at his post limit... So it'd definitely be the optimal time for a mislynch on him (assuming, which is pretty likely, that there are scum pushing his wagon when it's gained steam so easily despite no good reason). On the other hand, Tube's recent posting has been so crazy and frantic that I can kind of see it coming more from town than scum...... Well, I don't like how he's throwing his vote pretty much anywhere it sticks, but he doesn't look like he cares much for his appearance. That's usually associated with town. I wouldn't lynch SL, HF or KSC now. Perhaps Tube is town too after all. rsoultin, is your case on Trfel basically about his inactivity? I think I'd rather lynch FF than him for reasons previously mentioned. ##Unvote ##Vote Fecalfeast I'll be phoneposting when I can until deadline. It is and it isn't and I know why you're voting FF, I just don't see it as a strong case. But neither is my trfel one. With him, it's inactivity and meta (I've only seen him super try-hard before). It's also that he keeps saying he'll post cases/reads and doesn't. That his only read at all was FF, and town of all things. Okay, he can read him town, but why is that his only read? And that he spends more time telling us how lost he is and that we shouldn't lynch him (but would be justified to) than actually playing. But if that's not enough for you, I can do FF. I just don't want to do one of my townreads...and that is where all the blasted wagons are going right now >< | ||
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Bats, Xata...HTS already voted that way...FF then? | ||
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##unvote ##vote FF | ||
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On December 14 2014 05:49 GlowingBear wrote: PART 2 Odd final count analysis and lack of push on town agenda A good way to catch mafia is looking at who wasted their votes on the final votecount of a day. This looks like an attempt to do that. But, you see, he oddly points out EVERY other person outside the main wagon, which is NOT a reasonable thing, specially when we are talking about such strong player as Holyflare. Following his logic, me, frog and hts looks terrible. This is him stablishing the town agenda. In fact, our wasted votes looks terrible. Reminder: he didn't like froggynoddy's entrance either. But look at how inconsistent is his play: he stablishes town agenda, but pushes his own agenda (pushing ritoky). He does NOTHING to see these 3 people's alignment. He is NOT interested in these 3 people's alignment. He is just interested to look like an aggressive townie pushing ritoky, but he is actually not trying to solve the game. He is not trying to discover ritoky's alignment. He is just pushing for the sake of pushing someone. Why this comes from a mafia?: Mafia tends to look contributive but lacks the town intention for solving the game. He simply displays 3 names people should take a look at but does not go after those names. He is disinterested in solving the game, to discover people's alignment. That's not a townie. A townie would go against those 3 names he spoke of. He just posted this analysis because he wants to look contributive. Town read on froggynoddy When I noticed these patterns, I inquired him for reads on froggynoddy and Vivax. This is his response: You see, he was scumreading froggy noddy, said he looked terrible by his wasted vote, BUT CALLS HIM TOWN WHEN ASKED FOR A READ. This is someone who is NOT consistent with his reads. This is someone who gives fabricated reads and forgets them, or someone who doesn't want to scumread a possible partner. I know for a fact that Holyflare does this a lot. He scumreads a partner to further townread him. Remember: HE HAD NO ATTEMPT TO DISCOVER FROGGY'S ALIGNMENT. He started having this townread on him out of nothing, which is completely scummy. I'm sure you can understand mafia motivation behind it. Scumread on me This is hilarious. I want you to check these two posts regarding me, from the most recent to the oldest: HAHAHA HE SAYS IT'S A TOWN TRAIT FOR ME FOR BEING OUTRAGEOUSLY WRONG, BUT WHEN HE THINKS I'M OUTRAGEOUSLY WRONG THE SCUMREADS ME. This is the most inconsistent thing I have ever seen. He didn't scumread me because I acted scummy. He scumread me because he felt I was getting close to him. He is trying to discredit me and to survive, and not to figure out my alignment. Town perspective would be evaluate my action and figure out my alignment for something he already knows about my gameplay. Mafia perspective is "I'm getting caught, I have to make this guy look bad" ##VOTE: HOLYFLARE RIGHT NOW!!!! GB...your logic is nuts. 1. HF wanted to look at the wasted votes. He did not say that everyone "wasting" votes was scum. Nor would any sane person believe that. Froggy has barely posted. 2. Comparing an early read on you when you'd barely posted to a much later read on you does not prove inconsistency at all. This is not a good case. | ||
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On December 14 2014 06:00 Tubesock wrote: You believe FF is mafia more so than Lightningstrike? They are each basically interchangeable for me. Key difference: LS has made an uncontested claim. I do wonder where the heck he went off to, though. And @SL Dude, just cause you're unlikely to be lynched any time in the near future, I wouldn't write off you getting NKd. | ||
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On December 14 2014 06:02 GlowingBear wrote: I'm starting to believe you're misinterpreting me on purpose. 1) Looking at wasted votes = he has suspicions. He did nothing to figure out those people's alignment. 2) It's not a thing of early read. It's that he says I'm town when I do something outrageously wrong. I do something outrageously wrong in his conception and he scumreads me. Explain me this logic, because it's absurd. Also, I forgot to say about the push on ritoky at night but not questioning the present opening thing, which is ridiculous when you have such a strong scumread. You'll have to agree with me on this because you also felt that thing was wrong. I do agree with you on his not questioning ritoky's claim, GB. I cannot blame a soul for scumreading you when you're pushing mass role claims, though. You may be right that his push on both you and ritoky was reactionary. I don't know. But I do know that I don't see this as overwhelmingly scummy. | ||
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On December 14 2014 06:06 GlowingBear wrote: Seriously. READ MY CASE. VOTE HOLYFLARE OR POINT OUT WHY MY CASE IS WRONG. I absolutely refuse to be bullied or intimidated by a player who WILL NOT consider any other lynches or trains but the one he has been pushing from (nearly) the start of the day, after a brief but ultimately lukewarm prodding at ritoky. I DO NOT believe that you give something to potential mafia (read: null reads) because that is just as stupid as telling everyone to mass claim. I DO NOT LIKE the way you keep trying to pressure everyone to play the way you want them to play, threatening them. I may be wrong about you as scum, but your legitimacy in my eyes is ZERO. And I'm not sure why others would let you strongarm them into things either. I can respect people voting HF who believe he's scum. I cannot respect your style of play. | ||
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I hardly remember what he's posted, frankly. Something weird caught my eye earlier but I can't recall what it was, lol. | ||
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That is more like the Trfel I know | ||
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Dude, you haven't wanted to lynch KSC all game. Trfel brought some good points against him. Do you have comments? Or a defense for KSC? Cause if not he's likely to be lynched. I'll be honest, you're the sole reason I haven't switched over to him already. | ||
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^ One of the only people consistently making sense around here and not getting their panties in a bunch. Gonna echo Templar at ye there Tube. He said your wild determination was townie, not your reads. (Thus why I agreed with him. I don't agree with your reads, either, lol) ##unvote FF ##vote KSC | ||
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On December 14 2014 07:06 Tubesock wrote: Well, sorry. But I TRULY feel that if you don't think my reads are right, you can not let me live even as town. A bad town causes FAR too much havoc and confusion. You don't understand this game then, Tube. The point is to kill off all the scum. They're gonna get at least two town tonight if not more, and that's assuming that our vig if we have one doesn't get another. I don't want to lose town if I can help it, even if I don't agree with what they're saying. The point is to win, not punish ppl for thinking differently than you do. | ||
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That said, it's hard not to waver when only one of the people up for lynch is here to defend themselves, lol. | ||
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But what was really weird was his FF case based on night kills, and then coming back at Oats super hard when Oats said NK analysis isn't a good way to scumhunt. Basically said Oats was mafia just for that one statement. | ||
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NOW will ppl bother looking at friggin GB? He insisted we should keep the vote between FF and HF | ||
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I've been saying this is ridiculous all day -_- But we got mafia anyway so I'm happy | ||
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Or GB, but at this point that's mostly just cause I'm tired of him yelling about one push all friggin day. Oh, that and threatening us about it. | ||
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On December 14 2014 08:16 liancourt wrote: hey rit shoot hf Dude, no. KSC knew he was being lynched. Why would he go, no, no, don't kill HF, kill FF? if HF was mafia with him? He didn't even try to derail the lynch. | ||
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That was just as much WIFOM as claiming HF was mafia based on his flip. I know this. But I'm going to WIFOM against the WIFOM to prove a point. | ||
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You're telling people to claim unless they were a possible lynch? During the night? Then seem to not realize why people are accusing you of role hunting? Even if mafia can't do anything about it tonight, they can false claim or just get them night 3. I still completely get why ppl scumread you so often lol even if I still think you're town xP | ||
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On December 14 2014 08:23 Holyflare wrote: Case completely destroyed. Nobody batted an eyelid. A lynch wagon starts on me and gb only starts to try this pressure on me after I say I can't post. His second half of his case is like the same points he has been bringing up the entire day. Nobody even gave a shit that I wasn't here to defend at all. You're hurting my feelings here -_- I won't scumread you for it, but HURT FEELINGS. Xat backed you up too. | ||
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Please and thank you. Donkey indeed. | ||
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On December 14 2014 08:34 sicklucker wrote: Ok this is directed at ritoky. I just read all the roles and you should tell us who your shooting at eon (not now) like at 5:59 tormorow eastern time. Like your getting blocked regardless so that wont matter anyway. This can help people who dont think your town confirm you but ultimately its up to you. GD it SL why do you never think things through? That would prove nothing -_-. The point is nothing but ritoky dying tonight proves anything. Oh, I said I'd shoot so-and-so but it didn't go through! I must have been RBd! You can't see the flaw in that for those who think he is mafia? | ||
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Whether Oats was right or not doesn't matter. He did vote for a scumread of his. | ||
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It's not anti-town to point out that a confirmation isn't an actual confirmation. But I'm kind of tired of fighting you on things. I think it detracts from the purpose of the game to keep doing it. | ||
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KSC is dead though. Dead scum=winning | ||
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And if you say anything more about presents I think I may just ignore you for the rest of the game, lol. At the very least I would consider it >< | ||
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Is Oats ever around at this time? I don't seem to remember him being around ever. I think his schedule doesn't line up with EoD very well...so where his vote is probably means very little if he's not around to change it. | ||
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On December 14 2014 10:17 GlowingBear wrote: You're awesome. But, thinking of it that way, scum probably consolidated on HFs wagon, if HF is town, right? Lol is this a trap of some sort? What prevents scum from being on either wagon? Though if we're looking for odd votes that changed suddenly, Vivax was pushing KSC in Day 1 and Day 2...then suddenly shifts to HF with nothing to say for himself than "GBs case convinced me". HF turns out to be town, that would be the first spot I'd look. KSC seems like a good alt lynch to divide up town votes, but not so good when everyone jumps on board, no? By the same reasoning, Trfel's position was odd. He makes a good case against KSC, argues against GB's case enough to put KSC as the better lynch, then last minute also switches to HF on a "gut feeling". Though he was also the one asking Vivax why Vivax switched. Which is weird since neither seemed to have great reasons to do so. | ||
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On December 14 2014 10:38 GlowingBear wrote: Why would it be a trap? Mafia has no motivation to buss at this point. If HF is town, mafia is most likely on his wagon. I can't see the problem with this kind of thought... I find it unlikely with most of the votes split that every single mafia member was on HF or voting somewhere else. Especially toward the end. Particularly because KSC didn't really try to save himself. More likely he was either trying to protect HF or at least some mafia were taking the opportunity to buss him. Think about it. If the guy is the branch manager and there are already 3 disgruntled workers dead, his usefulness to mafia is questionable at best. He's not a terrible sacrifice (and being sick, he may have preferred to remove himself from the game anyway). Speculation that all mafia were on HF at the time seems inherently flawed when the odds don't point to anything that clean. | ||
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Fail to see your reasoning here. If he's scum, dead is dead. If he's town, we waste a day trying to lynch him (or arguing about lynching him) tomorrow. | ||
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On December 14 2014 10:52 GlowingBear wrote: No specific logic. Bad vigi shot. That's all. Let's move on to the next topic. Not acceptable. If you don't have a reason to say that, why are you saying it? I am trying to play ball with you here, GB...I'm not sold that you're not town or that HF isn't mafia, so can you at least work with me a little here? | ||
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On December 14 2014 11:00 GlowingBear wrote: I can, but this is not a thing to be discussed at night. I can talk about any other topic you want ...Unless you're trying to tell me that you're no longer certain of HF's alignment, it seems like you just don't want people to see him flip. And if you're no longer certain of HF's alignment, you should be able to "discuss" that just fine. I'm not an idiot to not understand what you're hinting at here, but the dodging is unnecessary when all you had to say was "I'm having doubts." | ||
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Well, I stand by my comment that it looks an awful lot like you're simply not interested in seeing him flip, glow. Which is not something that I understand coming from someone who is supposed to be town -shrugs- | ||
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Either scum voted for town Or scum bussed scum when the other option was town Or scum bussed scum when the other option was scum That post is a completely useless insight lol. | ||
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On December 14 2014 12:16 GlowingBear wrote: All you're doing is bashing on most everything I post. You want to discuss things that aren't to be discussed but does not propose another topic. That is not so obvious. You're making my post looks less informative than it really is. Kelsier keeping his vote on fecal feast is indicative of ff being town, but you seem not to care. You were also discrediting my case on HF but you now want him to flip/ thinks he might be scum. Really, you're looking really bad to my eyes. Heh, of course I am. You're rubbing me all sorts of wrong and I've been in your craw all day because of it. For the record, I'm still leaning town over scum on HF, and entertaining the possibility that someone could be scum even if I believe they're not does not make me scum, GB. What I find interesting is your seeming reluctance to see one of (ha! could practically say only right now) your scumreads flip. If you really thought he was scum, does it matter how he dies? In fact, shouldn't you want that information out there before heading into tomorrow's lynch assuming that we should scumhunt from HFs train? I've said most of the day that FF had a shit case against him. I admitted that my case on Trfel was probably equally shit. Null, null leaning town, I don't see that it really changes much. FF still has a lot to prove, which I hope he will. | ||
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On December 14 2014 12:16 Vivax wrote: Remember my Xatalos case on D1? Well, Kelsier apparently decided to interpret his ambiguous trap play in a way that would stop me from pursuing Xatalos and put what he wrote into favourable light, do with it what you will but for that he's back into my scummy pile. Lol...I remember your Xatalos case and only thinking one point was even worth considering. And today it's all about analyzing NKs as proof against FF, completely ignoring suspicions of Trfel before he came out with his case, scumreading people for not liking your NK analysis and jumping ship off of KSC which is a vote you were in on when it wasn't gaining much traction for no other reason than you read someone else's case and it convinced you. Not even an explanation as to which part convinced you or why despite being asked multiple times. You are firmly in my scum circle right now, buddy. Unless you care to clear all this up for me. | ||
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On December 14 2014 12:33 Holyflare wrote: Mafia don't like to contribute their own analysis and so the easiest way to blend in is by calling people town for the shittest reasons. If some town read doesn't make sense at all, like his town read on me, it's almost entirely because he knows I'm town and can just say it. Hence why I called him out on it because it's such a mafia thing to do. This probably also applies to his read on batsnacks because that was a terrible read at the time and didn't change based on evidence that should have changed the read. Circumstantial. It may be a point in a case (and since we know KSC was mafia that gives it a little more credit) but it by no means makes you 100% anything. Gotta give you my "love", too, HF You're interpreting what he said in a way that makes you look good. It could also be interpreted in ways to make you look bad. This is not good evidence. | ||
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Viva and GB went eerily silent. Guess they don't care to/or can't find a counter. Or they're taking a really long time to bother to frame a response. | ||
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On December 14 2014 12:51 Holyflare wrote: It's actually really frustrating this game to post actual logical content and then people completely overlook it to talk about minor things. Happened all last day with gb's case. Not one of you read my filter at all to fact check him and now you find out his case was actually based on lies that I've told you were lies all along and then you still pick on little crap like this kelsier thing over the better content. Beginning to annoy me now. I don't consider two people arguing against one another, both claiming each other is scum and/or defending themselves better content. If I can't make a read on you or someone else by looking at what you've done or said independently and have to choose one of you to parrot...I might as well call you both null and call it a day. Or both scum for damn well wasting my time. Find another sheep and stop pissing me off. | ||
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On December 14 2014 12:56 Vivax wrote: So when Trfel was bats tom scumspect and bats literally begged me to form a wagon on him, but I refused cause in my mind there was legitimately bigger fish to fry, why didn't I do it when he appeared as such an easy lynch? Easy answer: I'm town. Or my interaction where I argue for ages with Kelsier, is that scum/scum in your opinion? Until you clear up these questions I'm not scum. Worst case I'm a townie who's wrong, so tell me where I'm wrong (and weren't you the guy who agreed with me on my Xata case after some talk? Or was it tube) Agreed on the one point and debunked all your others ^^ That was when you called me a gnat as I recall. Why did you switch? Which part of GBs case convinced you? | ||
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I can understand the frustration of trying to get your point across and no one listening, for sure ><. | ||
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On December 14 2014 14:26 Tubesock wrote: I am a good target to keep alive for mafia. I die, it gives MASSIVE credence to my case. Lol this thought process is still one that amuses me greatly. Tube, dude...night kills are not the best judge of who is right and who is wrong. The most valuable information they give is the alignment of the players killed, so you can then read what they've said and done through the context of a flipped alignment. Have you stopped to consider that if you do die tonight we won't even know (most like) who actually killed you unless they flat-out claim that they did? xP | ||
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Most often mafia kills people they think town will never lynch, so that they can get town arguing/paranoid/indecisive about the options that remain. Look for active players who aren't being scumread. Mafia also tends to kill people that they think have roles (right or not). When you look at the kill list tomorrow, that is probably what you'll see. That is why questioning Vivax's night kill analysis addition to FFs case happened so quickly. | ||
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A mislynch opportunity didn't actually "arise". You and Tube were the options first. Tube started coming off as misguided town (and wasn't a very strong lynch anyway), several of us were uncomfortable voting either of you, and it turned into a who do the people not voting for HF consolidate on. You should probably actually read what happened before you start throwing accusations around. Not saying Trfel hasn't done some weird things or couldn't have bussed, but yeah. You were always on the chopping block. | ||
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Seeing something fly so easily would make me paranoid, too. What you probably didn't notice was a lot of us were actually looking for a better case than the ones people were making prior to your entrance. You had such overwhelming support in part because we all were already willing to switch votes to consolidate and get off the bad trains being brought forward -_- | ||
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Just finished my final which decided to disappear on me and I had to mostly rewrite @.@ Can we call a truce one of these games? lol I actually do like you despite picking on you and your posts so much xP (the vulgarity is just cause I got used to all the marines in my shop...it's just for color, not cause I want to bite -snaps teeth-) Yeah, not sold 100% on trfel, but that case certainly did help, and he's defending himself well from HF lol not a small feat. tempted to call HF growly from here out, but that would probably get confused with GB | ||
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Viva, you backed off KSC for basically telling you that he plays town differently than you. Xata, you basically WIFOMd that scum wouldn't make a play like that so read him as town. Neither were great reasons. Viva was even on top of KSC (and Xata by proxy) through most of Day 1, but then started focusing primarily on the reads of the killed townies for Day 2. You also did say that you'd more or less accepted both their arguments, so you going for an HF lynch isn't that out of character in that context, apart from not putting the work in like you did with your other reads. Xata has consistently made reads/arguments based off the assumption that mafia won't do anything to draw attention to itself, and I believe was the first one to call out KSCs play and actually examine it beyond just asking what the hell he was doing asking scrooge to claim. This reads to me as a consistent bias against "ballsy" scum (made a similar argument against my comments on GB/ritoky earlier) and not necessarily protecting a partner. Unless you two have more against one another, these points alone don't seem significant enough to scumread each other. Am I missing a key point somewhere? | ||
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You could more or less make the same case against most of the people on the KSC lynch train, is the point. | ||
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I don't really understand the obsession with the town flips' scum lists though, Viva. That was your primary focus all day yesterday. Why? You don't really think scum is killing people for their scum lists like Tube does, do you? | ||
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On December 15 2014 05:21 Alakaslam wrote: You must see me vig Yes You see I have led you on the path of CHUPAZI Yes Indeed for at first there was failure; I spoke against the snare Yes Then there was confusion; I pointed as one also confused For shame Then I saw my former ways; I felt Tubesock must live however Indeed Nonetheless eventually we returned to the ways of my past Yes And we experienced victory YEEEEEES So now see also the ways of my past; I also disliked the LS Orly? Yes; I scumread the LS Wow So now I tell you he wants to kill GLOWINGBEAR Duh Who knows! KNOWS WHAT?!? Knows of the scums! Yes Therefore you must shoot LS for he wants Tubesock AND GB dead! And still thinks HF is town! Yes Lol, slam...regardless of your alignment, your more-than-occasional inscrutability at times, and what I actually think of your reads, I like having you around. Your posts make me smile. That said, unless you've got a counterclaim for LS' claim or are just really certain, I'd think taking out the possible lylo problems would be more productive. I.e. froggy, for one. That guy still is coasting. | ||
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On December 15 2014 05:58 sicklucker wrote: Like slam might be mafia just for suggesting to shoot Ls rofl. like its so technically bad is this typical town slam to ignore an un cced role claim? Lol so reactionary. It was one post in thousands. And I do wonder why LS isn't really playing anymore, tch. | ||
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On December 15 2014 06:04 Trfel wrote: I still don't see the point of role claiming at all here. There could be one Ghost of Christmas Present, or fifteen, or zero. Counterclaiming doesn't prove anything about LightningStrike's alignment. The lack of a counterclaim also doesn't show anything about LightningStrike, since the Ghost of Christmas Present could simply have chosen not to claim, or there could be zero of that role in the game. While technically true, how likely is it that we've got fifteen random Xmas Present ghosts and no other ghosts? And why run the risk of claiming something someone else could CC and getting thrown into the spotlight? Though this here is the very reason that mass claiming is such an awful idea. | ||
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SL thinks HF is scum and is firmly on the Rit/GB team lol. | ||
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On December 15 2014 06:59 Vivax wrote: I don't even care what you all think of me cause I'm claiming after night ends so we can proceed and lynch Xatalos. I'm very eager to see if the people saying "scum is between me and Xata" will act like they said that. Flawed. Just...flawed. You've already claimed you have a role, so it's not going to matter now if you wait or not if you're not scum so...why don't you just out with it then? Not to mention Trfel (and others) have already pointed out the problem with claiming this game -_- So why you feel the need to throw it out there now I have no idea. | ||
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I'll acknowledge that knowing the specific role is better, but if it's unknown you're still a prime target there Viva. This is just ridiculous. | ||
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Viva, you're grasping at straws it seems. | ||
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On December 15 2014 07:29 Vivax wrote: I don't care, I'm posting at night, I'm sharing my thoughts, I don't care how wrong I am or how bad they look, anyone who knows my scum play (diplomatic, kinda active D1 and then I become super inactive) knows that this is town me and not scum me, plus I'm going to claim a role of which we know there's only one at day start. Suck it up. No such role exists. | ||
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Doubt if he's town that mafia will off him either. This will be an ongoing argument until he either flips or game ends. | ||
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The argument that HF never would seem like scum as scum is so WIFOM it's just...bleh | ||
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##vote: ritoky Also, I know this might sound weird coming from me since trfel just posted it, but I've been getting an uneasy feeling about SL myself. It's hard to pin down. | ||
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On December 15 2014 08:08 rsoultin wrote: Oh, I'm sure he'll claim he was RBd or something. ##vote: ritoky Also, I know this might sound weird coming from me since trfel just posted it, but I've been getting an uneasy feeling about SL myself. It's hard to pin down. EBWOP: I've been assuming that he wasn't because his crazy joyful child entrance did seem a lot like his usual shenanigans. I've also been assuming that he wasn't because of GBs point (can agree with the point and not so much with the player) that mafia isn't likely to send gifts to town. But it could have easily been orchestrated. Then claimed. And mafia kills who they send it to, removing the risk of town using whatever it contained. Which leaves just evaluating SLs play. He has been eerily consistent on his reads. The SL I'm used to bounces around a lot. | ||
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On December 15 2014 08:05 batsnacks wrote: What about ritoky though? ##vote: ritoky Yo, bats, do you ever get the feeling that you're being ignored? xP I've got a little sicklucker down there pretending he hasn't noticed people posting before him. It's actually quite interesting to watch. | ||
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Stop this nonsense -_-. | ||
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That would be process of elimination. NO ONE SHOULD CLAIM RIGHT NOW. | ||
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Your claim which I am starting to really not believe. You are insane. It does town no good to claim. | ||
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On December 15 2014 08:38 liancourt wrote: just vote HF discussion isn't going to progress as long as he is alive and we cant' analyze day 2 votes with him alive. That is a pisspoor reason to lynch someone. ritoky is the one who claimed to have a bullet, wasn't NKd, and yet if he did shoot someone he shot one of the two who actually successfully lynched scum yesterday. | ||
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On December 15 2014 08:44 Vivax wrote: The ghost claims don't change anything for the role. Kush suicided himself like a douchebag, I visited him N1, and so did marley, I'm nothing but a named VT now and claiming helps town find scum. Unless you have the theory that I took a 50/50 chance of getting counterclaimed when only few people really suspect me. Only the last ghost claim will be sketchy cause it's the safest one for scum to make. Look, I don't know if I suspect you or not. I do know that claiming right now is a bad idea with no set number of any specific roles. I am not saying people claiming are scummy at this point. I'm saying that claiming is going to narrow things down to one of town's last asset whether they choose to claim or not. Why you're getting so defensive I'll address at a later time. Please don't claim if you're town, folks -_-. Good lord. | ||
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On December 15 2014 08:08 rsoultin wrote: Oh, I'm sure he'll claim he was RBd or something. ##vote: ritoky Also, I know this might sound weird coming from me since trfel just posted it, but I've been getting an uneasy feeling about SL myself. It's hard to pin down. Surprise, surprise. | ||
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A town snowman could have been shot by OWS. There are several potential scenarios. That's why the night actions don't mean anything. We have to go off what we read. ritoky wasn't looking very good before the claim. I'm happy to give him a hole to climb out of. | ||
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On December 15 2014 09:44 sicklucker wrote: I told obi he was dead tonight . He woulda shot 10/10. There is either a medic save or a snowman SL, we can't know what he didn't say. But yes, that is possible. | ||
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Or scum. You will find the answer if you haven't already. | ||
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On December 15 2014 09:56 sicklucker wrote: It was on ff Im like tottaly sure he would have tried harder if he red checked hf. Green checking ff is the only option lets amuse that and move on SL obviously trusts you're not finding ways to push your lynch HF agenda more than I do. | ||
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On December 15 2014 10:18 GlowingBear wrote: Like, dude. Froggynoddy is most likely mafia. Oats is most likely mafia. Why shooting HF who "half" claimed? Why would he shot the most townie person in the game? WTF... It was obviously a joke, GB. The Branch Manager was lynched. There is no possible way that there is only one scum left. And no, I did not claim being roleblocked. I called that ritoky would claim that -shrugs- He either was as town, or he'd have to claim it, to look town. No great insight, that. | ||
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We lynched KSC. And that is why he didn't kill anyone. You know...just a thought. | ||
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On December 15 2014 10:34 rsoultin wrote: Or, and here is a really crazy thing. We lynched KSC. And that is why he didn't kill anyone. You know...just a thought. EBWOP: Nevermind. You were talking about Night 1 there weren't you GB? It's possible he shot randomly into the crowd and happened to hit what he needed to, but yeah, it's probably more likely that someone else shot. | ||
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So we're now up to a scumteam at least 4 members deep, and got the one who didn't get a NK lol. Probably an RB as well, so 4-5. Okay that probably doesn't help but I like to have an idea of how many scum are floating around, if only cause it makes me feel better. Hrrrrmmmm eh filter diving and rereading does not sound like a fun way to spend the evening :/ | ||
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I don't know, GB. Two died from NKs. It's not a wild assumption that the Branch Manager killed one, but didn't someone point out that they had to be claimed first? The OP seems to be contradicting itself -_- | ||
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On December 15 2014 12:43 GlowingBear wrote: Rsoultin, what do you think of Xatalos? Ritoky, why were you reading ff as mafia on day1? Eh, Xatalos. For awhile I thought he'd be a good person to listen to/sheep. What I mean by that is people have town reads, yes, but not all your town reads are going to be players you actually agree with. Xatalos is logical and appeals to my need for things to make sense, and I was townreading him. I'm less certain of him now. Not so much because of the voting at the end of the day, but because I went back through his filter when Vivax was riding him. He's very...noncommittal through most of it? Yes I know this is something to do with tone. But his reads and statements came off very cautious to me, like he's reluctant to make scum reads or something. Cautious about bunnies, reading KSC as town because his move was "too bold" for mafia, lynching bunnies cause no reason not to, noncommittal about HF and Vivax still being alive after night 1 (like he's hinting that they might be scum but not willing to pursue it), focusing on Tubes "scumslip", FF then becomes "too scum to be scum"...but then goes back to scumreading him for something called "Occam's razor"? I'm assuming that means if it smells like a rat it's a rat in layman's terms, but I haven't looked it up. Don't see any point where he's reading someone as strongly scummy, just this side of null. And he does seem to dismiss KSC as a potential lynch entirely, too, but that could just be a town being wrong. I also don't see (though I might have missed it) where his ritoky read changed from town to a possible lynch. Xatalos said he had reads but wouldn't give them Night 2. He may have had his reasons, but I'd like to see them now. I'm not scum-reading him, per se, but there are doubts in my head now. I think I just didn't notice him as much because he's not as vocal/confrontational as a lot of the other players, and I don't know that caution in and of itself is a exclusive to scum, but given how often he's commented that scum wouldn't do anything to draw attention to themselves, and then seeing how cautiously he's been playing...it does bring up doubts. | ||
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ritoky, of course you could be lying, so I'm not inclined to base my read on anything to do with bullets or presents or whatever (I allowed myself to get sidetracked arguing that the presents were insignificant and instead gave too much significance to them ><) but it would be nice to have an idea of what you say happened night 2. That could be very informative. | ||
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On December 15 2014 13:32 GlowingBear wrote: I have no idea how can you townread him earlier but keep your vote on him day1. I also have no idea how you vote someone day1 without noticing them much. Day 2, GB, is also earlier. I didn't say at the beginning. And if you recall, which you don't, my vote on him was to try to get him to explain why he was stuck on 27nb, because he did switch his vote to her when his main issue (the "iffy" section of her list post) had been addressed. At Night 1 I accepted his response that there were other reasons than just not having a reason not to vote her...but that doesn't change that his positions have been generally lackluster. | ||
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^Obviously a joke. However I agree with lian. Not necessarily that we must lynch HF and rit, but figuring those two out will go a long way toward the rest. I think I just need to go through things again, and see what jumps out at me. The things that bugged me before (about GB, about rit, about viva with the NK analysis and quick vote switch) still bug me. I'm just not sure that they're actually scummy. Froggy probably needs to be lynched soon, though, if we no longer have a vig. I just don't see his flip being particularly informative so I don't see him as a priority right now. | ||
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On December 15 2014 13:45 ritoky wrote: before you answer this, i would rather just have your read on GB Sorry, too late ><. I've been butting heads with GB. A lot. Part of my reaction to him has become emotional, and I don't like that in myself when I'm trying to analyze things. But I will admit it. His call for a mass claim I still don't like. I still don't like his tunnel vision focus on HF to the exclusion of pretty much everything else, or that he keeps trying to force things through and throwing fits when people don't fall in line. I don't like that he harps on HF constantly but then instructs vigi not to shoot him...it seems counterintuitive. The only explanation I can possibly think of for that is if he thinks HF may be the vet, but if he thought that, why all pressure? So no, GB still doesn't sit well with me. I wouldn't be surprised if he were scum and he still is probably my biggest scum read. I'm trying to approach him from more neutral ground, though, so my urge to fight with people that domineering doesn't get in the way/blind me. -_- | ||
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On December 15 2014 13:45 rsoultin wrote: Eh lol...I'm paranoid right now. Everyone is scum. ^Obviously a joke. However I agree with lian. Not necessarily that we must lynch HF and rit, but figuring those two out will go a long way toward the rest. I think I just need to go through things again, and see what jumps out at me. The things that bugged me before (about GB, about rit, about viva with the NK analysis and quick vote switch) still bug me. I'm just not sure that they're actually scummy. Froggy probably needs to be lynched soon, though, if we no longer have a vig. I just don't see his flip being particularly informative so I don't see him as a priority right now. ^ See above. | ||
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I'm trying to keep an open mind -_- Such as it is. I still do not really understand your claim as town, rit. Drawing fire maybe, as has been suggested, but was that your actual intention? | ||
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On December 15 2014 14:02 sicklucker wrote: +1 Like pic a side people for this vote. Its not we vote one person from each world I would look at lian for suggesting that totally what mafia wants You really don't find it strange when the entire game breaks up into camps? I do. | ||
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On December 15 2014 13:58 GlowingBear wrote: Seriously, if HF flips mafia, I have contundent facts that rsoultin is hod partner. Although I must say I'm impressed with his play here. Pues, he necesitado investigar la palabra "contundent" porque no es una palabra de ingles. Apparently GB slipped into his native tongue for a sec there. Contundent(e) means conclusive/overwhelming? in this context, as far as I understand. Please verify. I don't speak Portuguese. You'd have circumstantial evidence, for sure, given I've been fighting you the hardest on your HF case when it has never seemed particularly strong to me, and in many ways seems forced. Particularly with all the ALL CAPS nonsense. If town decides to lynch me this game it will purely be by association with a flipped scum HF, and probably only because you push it. You can be responsible for that when the game resolves. | ||
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Nah, you won't find all scum in one place. Not unless they're arrogant SOBs who think they'll never be caught. | ||
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On December 15 2014 14:36 sicklucker wrote: Rsoultin if you dont think mafia are going to hard align then how are gb and ritoky ever mafia? Thats one of my town reads on them. First, by people I think the only one who has mentioned lynching both HF and ritoky is lian. Secondly, I'm not certain. I think GB is scum because he hasn't convinced me otherwise. I know that thinking this and going toe-to-toe with him puts me in a bad position because he's very loud and people sheep him. It is more likely that rit is mafia if GB is, and I still find the dumb act hard to believe, trying to draw fire as town less hard to believe but ultimately not that helpful... But no, I am not certain. And two hard aligned mafia would not mean the entire team would be hard aligned. Again, I think it would be dumb for them to play that way. If HF and I were mafia together, as you seem to be convinced of, do you think that we'd want our team to openly bandwagon us, or hedge their bets, especially under fire? It's all speculative and strategy, but I will say that even if HF is scum and you guys do lynch me by proxy, please remember (assuming you're town) when I flip that cutting out half the players will cause you to miss the real scum team, and you probably will not be able to correct in time. | ||
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Under what possible circumstance would a town-aligned player advise the vigilante on his team to not shoot his top scum read? GB is clearly not the seer; that was Trfel. He didn't want the extra time to check HF. Not only did GB do this, but he refused to explain why, and the only scenario I could see was the one described above: if he intended to do an alignment check and didn't want scum to know that he was the seer. I briefly entertained the idea that GB might think that HF could be (amusing, given how adamantly he's been scumreading him) the vet. But that doesn't make sense, now does it? To verify the vet you would still want to shoot him, especially if you thought he was mafia. He either flips then or survives. (Or some other power role interferes in some way.) So why not shoot your top scum read? Why not? Unless you knew he wasn't scum. Unless you knew that by delaying his death you could continue to generate confusion and discord and force a mislynch (and a possible vet can survive a KS, not a lynch), giving you a free day to take out more town. Why not shoot your top scum read? SL? GB? Anyone? Am I missing something obvious here? | ||
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Until I can get a satisfactory answer: ##vote GB | ||
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On December 15 2014 15:41 sicklucker wrote: Like I didnt want hf shot either. you dont want potential roles dead unless your certain its bad play. Your new just trust us on the technicle side Then why not say as much? Why did he put me off? Not explain? How is it better to lynch a potential role vice shoot one? He's pushing HF right out the starting gate again. Is there less a chance that he's a role now than before? We still have at least one mason and probably a medic. Possibly a vet. If you can't explain yourselves adequately enough to school a newbie like me (and I'm not stupid) then why would I trust you? | ||
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On December 15 2014 15:52 sicklucker wrote: omg... why didnt you come out like when we asked? To who btw they have to come out with a check today anyway. SL, if you are not mafia with this group, you have to be the most gullible, unthinking townie in this game. So that they can be shot or blocked? Are you kidding me? Tube, I apologize. I genuinely do. I'm so used to SL not making much sense I've been ignoring it. If GB and rit flip mafia, he most likely will, too. Or he should be an honorary one -_- | ||
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GB, please do enlighten me, if I'm being stupid. Or at least enlighten the other players if you don't want to give me the time of day -_-. You have a habit of disappearing whenever we start getting into a discussion. Or argument. | ||
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On December 15 2014 16:01 sicklucker wrote: Ok so let me explain something. Presents are sent during the day and opened at night, hes claiming to have gotten the present yesterday and not have opened it last night and sent it to someone today. This is a complete lie because even if he dies at night the present is lost so the only logical town thing to do IS TO OPEN IT. Like he just dug his own grave its over Two days ago, SL. | ||
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On December 15 2014 15:47 Holyflare wrote: I also sent my present out yesterday. Happy birthday. You're misreading, either accidentally or on purpose, and ignoring my case which actually is not a bad friggin case. Whatevs. In my mind you're lackey scum or donkey town, and I'm tired of wasting my time on you. Going to bed now. | ||
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On December 15 2014 16:20 liancourt wrote: vote HF end the day have night come I'd like to think the town in this game are intelligent enough to actually understand how scummy the main opponents to HF have been playing, particularly GB (and SL???) so that we can keep our town, but I agree, lian. If they're not, they're not. Let's get the damn drama over-with. (I will hold out hope until closer to lynching time, however.) | ||
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Though this would apply to a ritoky of any alignment. Obviously the medic didn't visit the vig. | ||
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My best theory is that ritoky of whichever alignment was probably RBd/protected by medic. We believe that the branch manager accounted for 1 KS night 1... We believe, knowing that there was a vig that he took a shot We know that mafia has two KPs Damdred may have been killed by a present, but also by mafia/vig So without the branch manager taking shots... There should have been two KPs (there were), a vig shot (probably blocked) and a final shot from either a present's gift or the third mafia KP, depending on which killed Damdred So it follows that ritoky actually did have the present with the KS or is mafia with a KS as part of his role, then was probably protected/RBd by the medic Am I understanding the mechanics properly? I can legit see in this scenario a town ritoky, claiming the present early, drawing the shot from the mafia, and the medic protecting him. Like I said, if mafia isn't sure about what's in the present and doesn't want to die, they can set this up to see where it goes and plan on taking ritoky out N2. If they have KSs and already know everyone's alignment, being rid of the presents entirely or using them to kill town is the most to their advantage, especially since present giving is anonymous. | ||
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I reiterate my question, and hopefully others will too if they're curious (and not sure why they wouldn't be). Why not have the vig shoot your top scum read? And why couldn't you answer this question during the night phase? Toodles, folks. Really am going to bed tonight. Have to work tomorrow @.@. | ||
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On December 15 2014 17:01 sicklucker wrote: *rutin Brass manager didnt kill anyone night 1 because no one claimed that specific role. It would seem they have a Mass Murderer as well with a bullet left. Veg likely shot kush and wasted his bullet, the confirmed veg was asking are veg to shoot him... Its not 100% that dandre died but its so likely that you have to go into this thinking that. Mafia wont go killing claimed vt's night 1 they role hunt. So you're saying vig/marley/present/2kps. Doesn't really change the medic theory any. I'm not sold on the death present, though. If we all agree mafia prob doesn't want to open presents, why not send them to town to open as guinea pigs and just kill them if the present doesn't? No reason to kill ritoky who said he'd open the present, Damdred could pass it on. That means there are possibly 3kps that mafia has. -shrugs- Which suits your mass murderer theory. Otherwise they wouldn't need a mass murderer for what happened on N1. | ||
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If people won't entertain GB, then HF. Either way, it'll make things much clearer. | ||
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if weve got something wrong, rit, now is the time to defend yourself. id suggest a defense that doesnt involve presents ^^ Will vote when i get home from work | ||
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Then we definitely do not get notifications, because I was happily oblivious to people taking shots at me xP Obliiiivious. Or at least people getting shot at are happily oblivious lol. You have a reason for shooting at me, rit, that you'd like to share? Assuming you're town I would expect a scumread. Give me your read. That said, I do find it flattering that someone I perceive to be scum is trying to kill me. A nice compliment, that. | ||
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On December 16 2014 09:06 sicklucker wrote: Actually wait it makes sense if gb is town which I think is still probably true. The only way a mafia would mention they have a present is if a town sent it to them and they know they will be under suspicion if they dont use it. So ok gb town ritoky mafia makes sense lets do this. I think you are very good at not seeing all the angles. Like, for instance, how someone can just pass a present on. Deliberately obtuse or oblivious? Anyone else curious about SL's gift for making definitive WIFOM statements at every opportunity? Or that he never, ever, ever expresses a single doubt about GB? Paranoia, my friend, is a town trait. And you had it in spades last time I played with you. | ||
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How many times is your story going to change, ritoky? | ||
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##unvote ##vote: ritoky You Regardless, bbl. | ||
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On December 16 2014 09:31 ritoky wrote: You didn't read my post even after I told you to go read it....lol I did, sweet cheeks. I read that you are now claiming that you've been lying all along to cover for making a mistake and trying to reserve your shot. And that you delayed revealing who you shot at because you had to figure out a plausible target. So again. Why do you choose me to claim taking a shot at, then? <- Note the phrasing is exactly the same as in the post you just quoted. Perhaps I should have used the word DID to make my question more clear. | ||
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2. Not sure how I've been less than committal on you and GB. The burden of proof is on you, because I think my "commitment" has been rather obvious. 3. I said right in my Xata read that I'm not necessarily reading him as scum, just that his play is very cautious and that raised doubts. 4. I have since apologized to Tube, and even explained what I thought and where I've gone wrong with my read on SL. Not to mention I said earlier that it was meta and he was the only one I was comfortable meta-reading. So clearly you do need to go through my filter or read the thread yourself. | ||
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On December 16 2014 09:55 GlowingBear wrote: He is saying that although you are scumreading us you aren't trying to convince people that we are scum. This is you being non committal. Now that is quite hilarious. No worries, GB. If I haven't been coming at you enough already, you'll get your wish. | ||
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On December 16 2014 09:57 GlowingBear wrote: Also, rsoultin, although I've asked about what you think of xata, you've made a HUGE post on him just to say you find him null. But you still voted him at the end of day1 Of course you tried to say that "earlier" was "day2", but I find hard to believe you turned a scumread into an easily sheep able player. I could quote my earlier post and bold the salient portions, like when I said I was trying to get him to explain his read on 27nb, and that his comments are based in logic which appeals to my need for things to make sense. However, I won't. I'm not getting into an argument with you over minor details in a read on Xata when I have your case to build. | ||
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On December 16 2014 10:02 rsoultin wrote: I could quote my earlier post and bold the salient portions, like when I said I was trying to get him to explain his read on 27nb, and that his comments are based in logic which appeals to my need for things to make sense. However, I won't. I'm not getting into an argument with you over minor details in a read on Xata when I have your case to build. | ||
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On December 16 2014 10:09 ritoky wrote: 1. Cursory glance through your filter suggests you addressing it was like a 3 sentence paragraph on how you thought it was poor. For the volume of the content in that post, and the level to which you apparently believe the exact opposite; it should warrant a much larger response. 2. There's a difference between stating a read and pushing a read. 1 is committal the other isn't. You're have not been pushing your read. Given your filter length and post count, I would assume that you have been pushing a lot harder than you actually have. 3. Right, I get that. But you realize Xata was in a position to hammer HF who you think is town; or Kels who is confirmed mafia. He hammers Kels. In your eyes he should be supremely town. Yet you go through this giant elaborate process to null read him on the grounds that he was a primary cause of lynching mafia....I can't even comprehend this read. 4. So you're saying that rather than your thread content read which gave you town on SL; now....multiple days into the game, you're going to defer to a meta-read? I wish I had shot you 1. His case was underwhelming, and didn't require a large response. I was not the only one who thought that, clearly. 2. Not linking the quotes pushing, but there were plenty. 3. Doubts is not a null read. It is, quite simply, doubts. 4. I am saying that my initial read was based on meta. Read my filter. This is my last response to either of you @ritoky & GB. I asked people if they wanted the case I'd made against GB, stating that I still needed to rustle up the quotes, well before GB came back into the thread. It wasn't a bad try at sucking me into a back-and-forth, though. Kudos to you both for the attempt. | ||
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- He made several unexplained reads throughout the game (however a few, not all, were explained after he was pressed for reasons, i.e. me and SL) I can see early gut reads, but not later into the game, and not to this extent. + Show Spoiler + On December 09 2014 11:58 GlowingBear wrote: HMMM I see. I may want to lynch damdred after this. Don't ask me why On December 09 2014 12:01 GlowingBear wrote: K gonna sleep SL is town rsoultin is town Bats is scummy I'm going to lynch kush if I don't see his town tell. Good night. On December 10 2014 00:15 GlowingBear wrote: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA THAT'S MEAN. But for some reason, it makes me town read you. On December 10 2014 10:53 GlowingBear wrote: Cool, townslam. I think this game is going to be easy. On December 12 2014 01:09 GlowingBear wrote: Koshi is mafia, c'mon. Do I have a post count in my filter or I have to count one by one? On December 13 2014 03:52 GlowingBear wrote: Bats is town. This game is getting easier. - He delayed or completely failed to make reads most of the game (I don't think anyone can forget how long it took him to make his HF case.) + Show Spoiler + On December 11 2014 11:58 GlowingBear wrote: I'm gonna be warned if I keep posting. Ritoky is probably mafia. I'll only post once this night with updates reads. Expect a big post. On December 12 2014 22:10 GlowingBear wrote: I want to read more of the thread before making a case on HF, but a lot of his reasoning is off. The lack of push on ritoky's present claim, the multiple scumreads of wagons outside the 27nb wagon and the 27nb mislynch is all playing against him. His entrance in this game is awful, he picking on bunnies for being contradictory when picking up on frogs awful entrance but not picking on Vivax post on frog... This kind of double standards worries me. - The "recipient" of GBs "present" was being scumread by GB all through Night 1, until apparently he decided that HF must be scum therefore ritoky wasn't, and when questioned afterwards why he would give a "present" to possible scum, he responds that his read was "null" At the time of the gift-giving? I saw no reads from GB on ritoky before the one demanding he be lynched.: + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2014 05:52 GlowingBear wrote: lynch ritoky tomorrowBye On December 12 2014 08:09 GlowingBear wrote: I'm gonna read this thread now. And I'm going to hammer mafai. Btw, lynch ritoky. I gave him the present. But he claimed that he got the present at night, not caring for being roleblocked. Like, lol. On December 12 2014 08:17 GlowingBear wrote: The ability you earn can be roleblocked. I just thought you could use it night one instead of using it night 2. It doesn't matter anyway, you just revealed to mafia that you have a role now, which makes no sense for a townie. On December 12 2014 08:22 GlowingBear wrote: It's not WIFOM, rit. It's just looking through perspectives. I can't understand the psychology of a townie who decides to claim he is going to open the present he received. You don't die night one, then BAM! You obviously got a skill and will be killed/roleblocked night2 if you're town. I can never see town doing that. On December 14 2014 03:52 GlowingBear wrote: You're so focused on this matter that you fail to properly evaluate what I've brought for holyflare. What do you think of the case? Of the arguments? Why do you think mafia would make a case on one of the strongest players in the game? Do you see ANY mafia motivation behind it? I thought ritoky was mafia. I reevaluated it after putting more thought on it, mostly when I've realised HF is sure to be scum. I'm saying people are town based on gut feelings and probability. I have experience with some players here and I feel comfortable after I see some patterns. Like batsnacks, his townplay is like this. Slam also. It's hard to explain why, because it's more of a feeling than logical reads. I've townread you for the way you evaluated the present thing on sicklucker. I'm still reading you as town. I want you to get out of the tunnel you're currently in. On December 14 2014 04:09 GlowingBear wrote: Dude, I gave it to someone I thought was null at the time and that I can't properly read, so, if he was town, he would have a power and if he dies, it doesn't matter because it's less one in the game I can't read. I was going to change the target but I couldn't make it until deadline. That's why my vote is wasted. By the way, STOP VOTING TUBESOCK BECAUSE HE IS TOWN - Relentlessly tunnels HF for weak reasons, beginning with the simple observation that HF is still alive after N1. More curiously, the amazing "case"? All points he brought up beforehand. Amazing how long it took him to build it. Also note the weakness of this case. He cites 1) an entrance 2) responding differently to people town/null reading froggynoddy's entrance where it's clear that Vivax is calling his read null and 27nb's response is less clear 3)looking into wasted votes as if doing so automatically means that HF considers those voters scum, and someone town-aligned never would pay attention to the votes outside the train 4)a null-leaning town read on froggynoddy who HF never called scum during the game somehow being contradictory 5) HFs read on GB being contradictory because "spreading falsities" should apparently be in the same camp as doing something "outrageously wrong" and make GB a town read? Additionally we see what appears to be a clear attempt to try to warp Trfel's status as seer to suit GBs anti-HF train. + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2014 08:07 GlowingBear wrote: ALERT!!! ALERT!!! HF ISN'T DEAD NIGHT1 On December 12 2014 10:16 GlowingBear wrote: I'm impressed you're not questioning Ritoky for claiming being GIVAN PREZANT, HF. What do you think of it? On December 12 2014 10:48 GlowingBear wrote: Just check timestamps. You were here before. You know about the presents. You didn't push ritoky. You're not pushing him now. Your excuse of just coming to the thread isn't valid. On December 12 2014 10:49 GlowingBear wrote: Oops you're pushing him now. Gonna sleep and see the outcome of it tomorrow. On December 12 2014 21:24 GlowingBear wrote: Slam is town. Holyflare is mafia. Ritoky's reason could be legit. I admit I tunnelled a bit after the present thing. I can, although with some reluctance, see his actions coming from a town perspective. More from a mafia perspective, but... I'll have to reevaluate his play in this game. I want to lynch Holyflare today. On December 12 2014 22:02 GlowingBear wrote: Yeah, that's a point. I agree with you. The problem is: HF is giving me scum vibes and although I know he busses a lot, I find hard to believe that they would both make a case against each other. On December 12 2014 22:10 GlowingBear wrote: I want to read more of the thread before making a case on HF, but a lot of his reasoning is off. The lack of push on ritoky's present claim, the multiple scumreads of wagons outside the 27nb wagon and the 27nb mislynch is all playing against him. His entrance in this game is awful, he picking on bunnies for being contradictory when picking up on frogs awful entrance but not picking on Vivax post on frog... This kind of double standards worries me. On December 13 2014 05:28 GlowingBear wrote: Lol what kind of info? Lololol Ok, listen: The only important point regarding presents is that ritoky claimed he got one, which is more detrimental than helpful, because, in case he don't die night1, he dies/get roleblocked night2, which is awful for town. But if you think of it again, there is no motive for him to claim that he is opening the present as mafia. I just used my brain a little more and got to this conclusion. Which means that talking about presents is only helpful when considering mass claiming. We should drop this discussion right now. HF doesn't look like he is pushin town agenda, but his own self agenda. This looks much more like mafia holyflare. He points out things that aren't really mafiaish and doesn't seem to try to further identify people's alignment. His pushes aren't for solving the game. They are mostly done just to push, just to make a lynch happen, maybe. His backtracking on froggy is weird because he kept an absolute stance regarding bunnies, who I just say sounded more null than anything, and froggy is leaning scum. HF once came to the thread and said that we should look for people outside the NB wagon, which is ridiculous. He wasn't talking about people who WASTED their votes. He was talking about people outside the main wagon. He also said me and ritoky looked the worst. You can see he is doing a timid push on ritoky, but it really doesn't sound like he is trying to figure out his alignment. Weirdly enough, the present claim from ritoky remained unquestioned by HF. MOREOVER, he did not make ANY attempt to figure out my alignment when he said I looked bad at that time. He is scum. On December 13 2014 06:15 GlowingBear wrote: Yes. And I've just realised he talked about froggy looking bad, but he townreads him out of nothing later, when I ask him about Vivax and froggy. That's it guys. HF is scum. I'm voting noone else. On December 13 2014 07:09 GlowingBear wrote: Just vote HF. He will flip scum. I've just got home and I'm tired. Don't force me into making a full case on him. On December 13 2014 10:46 GlowingBear wrote: HOLYFLARE IS MAFIA! Part 1 Entrance His entrance is bad. He says obvious things like saving posts because of post cap (which is a big cap, by the way, you can waste some posts). He then says he will ignore people that wastes posts. The problem is: he calls Templar out for the RNG thing but does not take any stance regarding it. He is also okay to ignore a thing that in a game with post cap could be considered a scum trait. Then he says the obvious thing about not wasting posts. This means (A) his entrance is a waste of post itself for not taking any stance and saying the obvious, (B) he is okay to ignore scum traits. Why this comes from a mafia: this is just a post to try looking contributive while being noncomittal and fluffy. This is also a pre-excuse to overlook any scummy people who are wasting their posts. Froggynoddy's entrance Froggynoddy's entrance is bad. It is. + Show Spoiler [If you have no idea why his entrance i…] + This entrance is bad because mafia tends to have a hard time to introduce themselves into the game. They will try to sound serious, to sound committal, so they look like they're town. Under this perspective: "Gogogo" is completely forced. Lynching lurkers wasn't being a trend in the topic but he says that policy lynchings are stupid and we shouldn't discuss it. The thread wasn't discussing. So, unnecessary to bring this up. By saying that we shouldn't discuss it, he starts a discussion towards it. But that's not the only problem. In the end of his sentence he ASSUMES it is ok to go against lurkers LOLOLOLOL. Why this comes from mafia? As I've already said, mafia will try to look contributive, so this is just him trying look townie by saying something very easy to say as mafia. Worse, he then contradicts himself saying that it is okay to lynch lurkers under the lack of good target, which makes his policy-talking shit a waste of post. It is also a pre-excuse if he chooses to lynch lurkers later in the day, so he won't take responsibility for it Holyflare picks on it in a timid way: + Show Spoiler + On December 09 2014 08:23 Holyflare wrote: So what you're saying is policy lynches are terrible but if it all goes sour you want to policy lynch?? So he also thinks this post is bad. Bunnies and Vivax, however, have different opinions: + Show Spoiler + On December 09 2014 08:32 27ninjabunnies wrote: @ Slam @ Damdred Didn't HF basically do just the same thing? Except more of he came into the thread with "Omgerd we have cap posts. Im town, follow me later" and then leaves. And yet, Damdred, you have him as town for basically a shit post? While I agree, people talking about policy lynching and lurkers seem off, he seems just an easy target for people to scum read because of that. On December 09 2014 08:35 Vivax wrote: What froggy said is simple common sense but also something that never matters cause at the end of the day it's mostly some scummy looking person getting lynched. I don't see it as scummy, just as something useless to talk about which isn't scummy at this stage of the game. The biggest accusation you could make is that he's so serious in a setting where people are kinda joking, but that's not enough to go with in my book. It's more like he's annoyed that people are discussing policies when in past games it always led to that statement of his making the most sense. Null for me. Notice that the basis of their argument is similar: it's a very easy target for scum. Then Holyflare comes with this very opportunistic post: Why this comes from a mafia See, why does Holyflare doesn't attack Vivax for using the same argument? Why does he completely ignore Vivax and goes shit aggressive against bunnies? Why doesn't he even do that against froggy, the contradictory one? Because bunnies will turn into an easy lynch and the others may be (I SAID MAY BE) his scum partners. Holyflare even ended lynching bunnies. Then says that people outside the NB wagon are scummy, including froggy. But he makes NO ATTEMPT to discover his alignment. He is just pushing his own agenda, without even considering solving the game. He just says someone is scum and pushes it. Putting it in a simpler way: he says what town agenda is (looking to the wasted votes), but goes against his own agenda (pushing ritoky in a timid way) This is the end of part 1. Part 2 will be tomorrow, because I'm going to a party. On December 14 2014 05:49 GlowingBear wrote: PART 2 Odd final count analysis and lack of push on town agenda A good way to catch mafia is looking at who wasted their votes on the final votecount of a day. This looks like an attempt to do that. But, you see, he oddly points out EVERY other person outside the main wagon, which is NOT a reasonable thing, specially when we are talking about such strong player as Holyflare. Following his logic, me, frog and hts looks terrible. This is him stablishing the town agenda. In fact, our wasted votes looks terrible. Reminder: he didn't like froggynoddy's entrance either. But look at how inconsistent is his play: he stablishes town agenda, but pushes his own agenda (pushing ritoky). He does NOTHING to see these 3 people's alignment. He is NOT interested in these 3 people's alignment. He is just interested to look like an aggressive townie pushing ritoky, but he is actually not trying to solve the game. He is not trying to discover ritoky's alignment. He is just pushing for the sake of pushing someone. Why this comes from a mafia?: Mafia tends to look contributive but lacks the town intention for solving the game. He simply displays 3 names people should take a look at but does not go after those names. He is disinterested in solving the game, to discover people's alignment. That's not a townie. A townie would go against those 3 names he spoke of. He just posted this analysis because he wants to look contributive. Town read on froggynoddy When I noticed these patterns, I inquired him for reads on froggynoddy and Vivax. This is his response: You see, he was scumreading froggy noddy, said he looked terrible by his wasted vote, BUT CALLS HIM TOWN WHEN ASKED FOR A READ. This is someone who is NOT consistent with his reads. This is someone who gives fabricated reads and forgets them, or someone who doesn't want to scumread a possible partner. I know for a fact that Holyflare does this a lot. He scumreads a partner to further townread him. Remember: HE HAD NO ATTEMPT TO DISCOVER FROGGY'S ALIGNMENT. He started having this townread on him out of nothing, which is completely scummy. I'm sure you can understand mafia motivation behind it. Scumread on me This is hilarious. I want you to check these two posts regarding me, from the most recent to the oldest: HAHAHA HE SAYS IT'S A TOWN TRAIT FOR ME FOR BEING OUTRAGEOUSLY WRONG, BUT WHEN HE THINKS I'M OUTRAGEOUSLY WRONG THE SCUMREADS ME. This is the most inconsistent thing I have ever seen. He didn't scumread me because I acted scummy. He scumread me because he felt I was getting close to him. He is trying to discredit me and to survive, and not to figure out my alignment. Town perspective would be evaluate my action and figure out my alignment for something he already knows about my gameplay. Mafia perspective is "I'm getting caught, I have to make this guy look bad" ##VOTE: HOLYFLARE RIGHT NOW!!!! On December 15 2014 09:53 GlowingBear wrote: By the way, why would Santa try to lynch holyflare by having a "gut feeling"? His check was obvious not on Kelsier. Hm. On December 15 2014 10:10 GlowingBear wrote: ##Vote:Holyflare I'll keep my vote on him until he claims. OBI if you shot HF you're insane. -Calls for mass roleclaims multiple times, recants, then calls for mass roleclaims again. With possibly 2-3 town roles still out there, and no set number of anything, how does this benefit town, and why won't he stop harping about it? + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2014 08:30 GlowingBear wrote: I'm wondering if mass claiming day2 is a good idea. On December 12 2014 08:58 GlowingBear wrote: Who was masoned with kita? Time to claim. On December 13 2014 03:25 GlowingBear wrote: You guys are out of your minds. I had to come quickly to my work so I couldn't bring the points on holyflare. By the way, mass claiming IS okay now, as a lot of vts died. It will narrow our lynches A LOT On December 13 2014 03:52 GlowingBear wrote: Why mafia roles are relevant? If people mass claim, mafia will have to counter claim in order to survive for long. This means that, at least, we will have to decide between 2 claims, when one is true and the other is false. Considering Scrooge is dead, we have 3 confirmed roles for town. There's obviously a Santa. That's 4 people we are not considering lynching today already. It's a lot. I don't care much for power roles. All we have to do to win the game is to lynch mafia, that's all. On December 14 2014 00:43 GlowingBear wrote: Ok, now that I'm sober (although extremely hangover), and before I continue with the case on Holyflare, I want to say a word about presents. Although talking about the power presents give is useless, there is an important thing about its mechanics that we should consider: Mafia is unlikely to give presents to town + Show Spoiler [Why?] + They have 66% chance of giving a important power to town. That said, if a mafia holds a present, he is most likely to give it to a partner and not opening it until they can see if the present town holds is the death one. Town, in the other hand, will give it to anyone day1 and the townie will most likely open it because they have a very good chance of opening a power present. This means: If damdred opened a present and flipped town, sicklucker is most likely town. If ritoky claims he's got a present and that he is opening it, he's most likely town, because mafia would hold it and give to another partner to see if that was the death present or not. There is no motive for mafia to say they will open it, since that, if they open the death present, they will flip mafia anyway, so ritoky's explanation actually looks fair. That's it guys. Btw, no mass claiming. It was a bad idea of mine. I've just realised mafia will have problems with so many possible powers against them. On December 14 2014 01:19 GlowingBear wrote: I'm not ignoring it, I'm considering probability. Mafia can do whatever they want to do. But it is likely that they do that? I don't believe so. He obviously received the present because I sent it to him. Unnecessary to claim it as mafia. Also, I know the setup was open on titanic v, but the thing is that a lot of vts died, the probability of we having a lot of power roles alive is high and if we all claim, we will be able to narrow people and discussion. We will narrow our lunch targets a lot. Anyway, it doesn't matter now because it is a better idea to not claim. Masons are confirmed to each other, aren't they? Because if they are, we will have another confirmed town without a power role. Do you understand why claiming masons is okay? On December 15 2014 10:42 GlowingBear wrote: I don't think that's how the mechanic works... Anyway, yes, I was talking about night1 It has been a long day and I'm not thinking properly now. Gonna put thoughts on things tomorrow. I gently ask for anyone who was roleblocked night1 and night2 to claim it. On December 16 2014 02:09 GlowingBear wrote: I don't get why people aren't claiming. I don't fucking care about the shorty JK power. I care to know who is town and who is mafia because all we have to do is lynch them. Why did the mason didn't claim yet? I want to clear names from my head and go against scummy people. This is the most important thing. Yet here we are wasting our time instead of figuring out other people's alignment. - Presents unasked for defense/explanation for “gift-giving” being a purely town-motivated action, going out of his way to clear SL when SL was not being scumread/under fire. This one is simply a bit "why" for me. What with their duo, I can only think that a scum!GB has pocketed a town!SL and is trying to be read as town by association: Damdred(town)-SL-GB-ritoky??? Or, scum!GB is trying to protect scum!SL by giving him a WIFOM "confirmation". + Show Spoiler + On December 14 2014 00:43 GlowingBear wrote: Ok, now that I'm sober (although extremely hangover), and before I continue with the case on Holyflare, I want to say a word about presents. Although talking about the power presents give is useless, there is an important thing about its mechanics that we should consider: Mafia is unlikely to give presents to town + Show Spoiler [Why?] + They have 66% chance of giving a important power to town. That said, if a mafia holds a present, he is most likely to give it to a partner and not opening it until they can see if the present town holds is the death one. Town, in the other hand, will give it to anyone day1 and the townie will most likely open it because they have a very good chance of opening a power present. This means: If damdred opened a present and flipped town, sicklucker is most likely town. If ritoky claims he's got a present and that he is opening it, he's most likely town, because mafia would hold it and give to another partner to see if that was the death present or not. There is no motive for mafia to say they will open it, since that, if they open the death present, they will flip mafia anyway, so ritoky's explanation actually looks fair. That's it guys. Btw, no mass claiming. It was a bad idea of mine. I've just realised mafia will have problems with so many possible powers against them. On December 14 2014 03:46 GlowingBear wrote: Tube, sicklucker claims he sent damdred a present Damdred dies and flips town You can assume it was the death present Mafia is unlikely to give present to town day1 Therefore, SL is town - Throws a fit EoD2 when demands to vote HF and trust him fail, and piecemeal case is generally rejected. I included this mostly because people seemed to think this was a sign of being town. Unless bullying and yelling at people is a town trait, I don't really get it...Occasionally could be considered a joke, but this was completely over the top imo. + Show Spoiler + On December 14 2014 04:57 GlowingBear wrote: Obi, trust me. Vote for holyflare. Trust me please. On December 14 2014 06:04 GlowingBear wrote: I WILL LYNCH WHOEVER DOES NOT VOTES ON HOLYFLARE AFTER THE BEST CASE OF MY LIFE I WILL LYNCH WHOEVER DOES NOT VOTES ON HF AND I'LL PM GAY PORN EVERYDAY TO YOU GUYS. EVERYDAY. On December 14 2014 06:06 GlowingBear wrote: Seriously. READ MY CASE. VOTE HOLYFLARE OR POINT OUT WHY MY CASE IS WRONG. On December 14 2014 06:07 GlowingBear wrote: You will switch now. Mafia is deflecting the ongoing HF's lynch. It was the best opportunity for them to lynch HF but they started deflecting it to FF. You will switch NOW. On December 14 2014 06:12 GlowingBear wrote: DO YOU NEED ME TO LINK MY CASE AGAIN? BECAUSE I CAN AND I NEED YOU TO LOOK AT IT AND SAY OMG GLOWINGBEAR GENIUS WHARRGARBL http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?page=121#2402 On December 14 2014 06:20 GlowingBear wrote: REALLY RITOKY? I'VE MADE A STRONG CASE ON THE GUY WHO WAS PUSHING YOU AND TEMPLAR'S CASE IS GOOD? NO WORDS REGARDING MY CASE? On December 14 2014 06:25 GlowingBear wrote: his case is just a little bit after mine, dude, lol. I read it but I'm too heated now. I'll getting out of the thread for a while. Please, all of you, read my case and give thoughts (and mostly, vote HF) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?page=121#2402 On December 14 2014 06:46 GlowingBear wrote: Get back to HF, ff. - Doesn’t want vig to shoot top scum read and refuses to explain why until Day 3, claiming HF could have been town/vet when he hasn’t townread him the entire game since early Day 1. His vet story is particularly strange. Worried the vig might waste a bullet? Wouldn't that be a possibility regardless of who the vig shot? If GB thinks HF is scum, he should want him dead to confirm, and GB never admits to thinking HF isn't scum. + Show Spoiler + On December 14 2014 10:34 GlowingBear wrote: 1st paragraph won't happen :/ although I want HF lynched, I don't think he is a good vigi shot. 2nd paragraph: yeah, he isn't useless, but he is scummy. I'll debunk his defense soon. Although I'll say in advance that I may have misread something in his filter, since I couldn't find where he explicitly said froggy is scummy. All I've got was him calling his entrance out and saying froggy looks terrible (which, for me, is a way to say someone looks scummy), but I couldn't find where he explicitly said he was scum. Bummer. I believe it's possible that both wagons were mafia. Holyflare's vote was on FF. I simply don't like FFs wagon. Gonna check it again On December 14 2014 10:52 GlowingBear wrote: No specific logic. Bad vigi shot. That's all. Let's move on to the next topic. On December 14 2014 11:00 GlowingBear wrote: I can, but this is not a thing to be discussed at night. I can talk about any other topic you want On December 14 2014 11:23 GlowingBear wrote: Listen: we can discuss any topic regarding HF. There are a lot of reasons why I think HF isn't a good shot. I don't want to talk about any of them. But we can discuss HFs alignment, that's for sure. I still think he is scum. Odd thing: Kelsier didn't vote HF to keep alive. Thoughts on this? On December 15 2014 22:14 GlowingBear wrote: Where did froggy agreed with my case? I didn't want vigi to shoot HF because: 1) He could be town (I'm positive he is mafia but I don't have perfect information) and the way he claimed he was a role made me think he was the veteran. That's why I didn't want to talk, at night, exactly WHY HF wasn't a good shot 2) We have questions marks/scummy lurkers that are more worthy of a vigi shot: froggy, oats were the best shots. - Weird froggynoddy association flip comment, suggesting that if froggynoddy flips HF is scum. Does he really buy the froggynoddy nonsense he's spouting in his case? Or...could it be that this is a buss intended to add credence to his not-so-shiny case? + Show Spoiler + On December 15 2014 06:22 GlowingBear wrote: No he didn't Stop talking about his shitty claim, we will now what will happen after the nightkills. I just ask you guys to be careful. In case I die, it means nothing regarding HFs alignment. Don't fall into WIFOM with the night kills. Anyway, I think I'll head the other way. If HF is mafia, I have this association that froggy noddy is mafia with him. So instead of going against HF tomorrow, I'll go against froggy noddy. By the way, if we have a vigi (which I don't think so), froggynoddy is an okay target. - Finally...yes, there is an end!...The weird reads on me. Note how he first links me to HFs alignment, then quickly backs down to a null read, then a town read. Suspiciously, this looks like a nod to general thread sentiment. + Show Spoiler + On December 15 2014 13:58 GlowingBear wrote: Seriously, if HF flips mafia, I have contundent facts that rsoultin is hod partner. Although I must say I'm impressed with his play here. On December 16 2014 02:28 GlowingBear wrote: I was reading slam as town but I'm not sure anymore though. I don't know what I make of rsoultin. Templar fits the lurking mafia Obi dying and not shooting is weird. It's hard to believe mafia nailed his alignment, roleblocked and killed him. But it seems he was roleblocked which means ritoky could be saved by nigella. Which again makes no sense. Argh. Froggynoddy is worthless in this game So is oats, who townread Vivax day1 after a long quarrel but keeps his vote on his townread HTS looks bad because it doesn't look like she is trying. Same to Tubesock. It makes no sense, however, that Templar is scum with Tubesock. His pushes on Tubesock are timid. I can see Templar very well being mafia. On December 16 2014 10:32 GlowingBear wrote: By tunnelling you, I've made rsoultin mafia by association. But looking at his filter and other dead people I feel like he is most likely town, although he has this weird things I'm pointing out. Please feel free to comment/ask questions. Like, why would mafia!ritoky successfully lynch mafia!ksc instead of HF? Well, if HF is town (and I have yet to see real evidence that he isn't), mafia!GB cannot afford to have HF flip. (No vig shot lololol) It really is that simple. If they can string this along to LYLO, they will. | ||
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On December 16 2014 10:24 ritoky wrote: 1. It was large enough to almost lynch someone who you think was town....and you think it is from a mafia agenda....like the fact that you're not going out of your way to massively discredit it only proves that you're not pushing your read on GB in particular. 2. Link them, make the case on GB, why are you threatening to give reads instead of actually giving them? 3. WHY ARE YOU NULL READING SOMEONE WHO HAMMERS SCUM INSTEAD OF SOMEONE YOU THINK IS TOWN? 4. Your new read is also based on meta, you say he is not as paranoid as last time and then link a game. Then you're going to not continue speaking or make your case....how is this town at all? Also, ritoky, to answer your screaming... 1. Most all of the comments made about his case above were also made (by me) about his case before. Several people didn't buy the case. The biggest problem on Day 2 was getting everyone to agree on the same alternative lynch. You will see me all through GBs filter, and him complaining about me riding him. Your point is invalid. 2. You can see me all through GBs filter (in several of the nested quotes in the case above) and I don't feel the need to satisfy you with a post dozens of links long. Those reading the thread know who my two main pushes were and are. 3. Again you choose to ignore what I already said. Xata is not a null read for me. I'm just not as sure (nearly 100% Day 2) that he is town. I am paranoid by nature, and this game encourages it more -shrugs- 4. No, he is not as paranoid as last time. However my main concern with him is the present fixation. Particularly since they're trying to pass the giving of a present as something exclusively townie, in that light he seems more interested in survival than finding scum. Which anyone would agree is a scum trait. However, I am on the fence about him. For the moment. Obviously I never had any intention of not returning to the thread. I simply wasn't going to get pulled in to a sniping match with you. But now, to bed. Toodles. | ||
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On December 16 2014 22:42 GlowingBear wrote: I haven't read it because, as I know I'm town, any points brought against me are automatically wrong. Anyway, is there something in there you think an explanation would be good? I find your move here interesting. You may wish to take a look at the very last small paragraph in my case, as to why I think it's funny that you don't want to pursue a lynch against either ritoky or HF right now. If you can't be bothered to read it and clarify your behavior this game, that's up to you. Most of the points I have questioned you about before, with a few exceptions here and there and a few quotes that hadn't stood out to me when you initially said them. ritoky very clearly stepped in it. He is trying to explain that away now. He was not and never could have been notified of his action being interfered with, his pre-emptive claim was never very townie (something oddly enough that you mentioned multiple times before inexplicably changing your tunnel to HF for a gut feeling), so why not vote him? He seems to be the clear choice for lynch here. Even if he is telling the truth about having never taken a shot, why not just say so? It still wouldn't have looked good, but then at least he wouldn't be in the position of trying to get people to trust an admitted liar. | ||
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On December 16 2014 23:19 Vivax wrote: Ritoky is a policy lynch, nothing more, so stop disguising it as a lynch for scumminess. There's neither a special scum nor town motivation in what he did. As scum he could've claimed to not have shot without repercussions, as town he should have claimed to not have shot. What I see as a point against his lynch is the vote on Kelsier which had real impact on the lynch (as long as HF isn't scum at least) For me, Oats is more obvious scum than him. So that's where I'm placing my vote. Riddle me this. If HF is revealed as town, what happens? Just hypothetically. And what is the town motivation for lying? A townie might conceal his own role, perhaps, but lying about taking a shot and being roleblocked. What is the town motivation for that? What is the town motivation for throwing out a name of someone who has been shot at? So what about Oats is obvious scum then, Vivax? I remember you going balls to the wall on Xata earlier, but it seems that the case against Oats is...he hasn't posted much? Is that not a "policy lynch"? Please enlighten us. | ||
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Fine and fair enough. If you guys have alternatives to ritoky/GB, you should present your cases and explain why you want to lynch these people beyond "they're scum". -shrugs- And why they're better lynches than ritoky in particular. I'll drop in to read. If you've seen things I haven't and there's a eureka moment I'm willing to change my vote, but as it stands...no one is bringing forth convincing alternatives at present. | ||
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If you were going to be framed, gb, why is hf still alive today? Why did you go after hf for practically no good reason? Smells like a rat jumping a sinking ship to me. | ||
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Yes. But you're not voting him over ritoky, and you weren't the one I was asking. SL needs to back up what he's doing. (And last I checked, he hadn't switched his vote to Oats either, just said we should lynch him.) This was the problem that I had with Xata (until he explained that he had three scumreads rating about equal) on Day 1. It's not enough to just call someone scum. You have to say why and also why they're the best lynch over other scumreads...or if you're not reading another as scum, why. Vivax says ritoky is a policy lynch (disagree) and his vote on KSC absolves him (lol). If I weren't already reading ritoky as scum for his earlier play, lying about things may not be enough to lynch him, but he's done questionable things throughout the game, to include claiming something that he shouldn't have, GB (my main scum read) reading him as scum then turning on a dime for no better reason than 'my gut tells me so-and-so and they can't iboth be mafia', a random read on slam based on meta on a game slam was afk in, and those are just the things I've brought up. Others have brought up different issues with him, like attacking LS for weak reasons Day 1 (kita) while saying tube was weird but new so okay (when they're both new???), or laying into HF because he wasn't angry enough Night 1 after the lead that HF was pushing flipped town (lololol what is that, especially when his main issue w/ LS was baseless meta-reads???). Then, even though GB just decided that yeah, ritoky is scum, and ritoky claims shooting me last night (who knows? I don't get notified if ppl try to shoot me and fail) because I am clearly the most scummy/plynch worthy player in the game to choose to lie about trying to shoot GB jumps on board trying to grill me about minor details that are easily explained. Maybe 15 minutes after I said I had a case on GB that I just needed to get the quotes for??? That doesn't look like a delaying tactic at all? What point is ritoky even making, if he claims now that he never shot at me to begin with? If he was reserving his bullet it follows that he didn't feel strongly enough about anyone to shoot them. His case is just so full of holes. Not to mention this non-committal thing, lol. Yeah, I'm often accused of being passive about my scumreads xP <- for those who don't know me, that was sarcasm Also, just as a sidenote...apparently between the time that I started writing this post and I finished it, SL changes his vote to Oats (lololol) without giving any reasoning in the thread. Still. | ||
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On December 17 2014 05:35 LightningStrike wrote: Btw rsoultin this is my 3rd game I not entirely new I believe this site defines newbies as those who haven't finished 3 games yet? But I take your point . Tube is newer than you are. | ||
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I also asked people if they wanted my case against GB now or to wait until night. To be honest, I'm not really for pushing two scumreads at once. That seems like a great way to cause confusion/divide up votes, especially if scum takes advantage. Rit+HF is solely based on rit's vote Day 2. Solely. When you look at the interactions, though, rit fights with HF most of night 1, and never really townreads him. By contrast, GB stops laying into rit the moment others start, completely flips and goes after HF (ironically for not giving rit shit over his early claim when he was giving rit shit for other things). To me the rit+HF seems unlikely. | ||
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On December 17 2014 06:11 froggynoddy wrote: I see. But if HF is town then it makes little sense for rit to go on Kelsier (I know I'm slow to the party...). Is rit+GB+HF scum team viable? Seems like super risky scum play to me. -shrugs- It's a good question. I've already explained how it's possible, but it assumes both GB and rit are scum. If GB doesn't want HF to flip, and GB and rit are working together, then it's not a stretch that rit doesn't want HF to flip either. It is possible that they're all scum, anything's possible...but fighting like this seems like it would be hard to sustain this long. | ||
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On December 17 2014 06:14 sicklucker wrote: So I think im allowed one most post, im a little surprised no one knows why I dont mind voting out oats. Like 5-10 posts were about it so I know alot of you are not reading very well. If ritiky is mafia then he gave the kill present to a partner. Im fairly sure oats is mafia so its a chance to reduce kp, killing ritoky wont do this but its not a bad kill i just like the big plays. Mafia might just be sacrificing him here to save kp. I did this in my only game as mafia. I also get more information by turning this landslide vote into something interesting to discuss im confident in my position as town in your eyes so its just the logical thing for me to start discussion and scum hunt oats. Im still town reread the facts dont let mafia propaganda sway you. I cant post again so stop asking me to explain things that are already in my filter for another hour plz and letting mafia having an excuse to put dirt on me. Lol, guilt by association. I don't think you're high on people's lynch list right now though, SL. Even if some of us probably do have doubts about you. And I should have known this was a present thing again -_-. Either rit did or didn't open the present. The ks is either gone or he never actually knew what was in the present. So this entire line of reasoning you're on is pointless. -facepalms- | ||
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On December 17 2014 06:19 froggynoddy wrote: I don't likt this logic. I think it would be quite easy to sustain a concerted argument as scum, you can pretty much rehearse it in QT no? If you can consider it possible for GB and rit working together then you to also have to consider GB and HF working together. I personally think GB slightly more likley than HF if rit flips. But I think there might be others I want to look to first (like SL + Oats). I still think Templar looks bad. Like I said, I consider all of it possible. All three seems to be a stretch, but is also possible. None of this matters until we see how rit flips, though. I'm going to stop speculating about future scum until we know for sure which alignment rit is. Or someone starts shenanies, whichever happens, lol. | ||
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On December 17 2014 06:43 Tubesock wrote: So, what happens if Ritoky flips town? Do you guys think HF is scum or town still? GB? Well, if rit flips town the first thing I'll do is call him an idiot without any reservations whatsoever. GB has been acting scummy to me...rit's flip doesn't actually speak to my case on GB except maybe one point or so... I know you think HF is scum, so I'm willing to hear out your case. It seemed like most of it was associative...???? | ||
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On December 17 2014 06:58 froggynoddy wrote: BTW does anyone have thoughts on this? I'm just starting to feel that rit might just be stupid rather than scum. I think its too late to do anything about it but thoughts? Yeah, it's a gamble. But there are three things that make that gamble less risky: 1)Any of the dead players could have had a present 2)If they counterclaim they're in mafia crosshairs, so it's unlikely they would 3)There's no guarantee that present had been opened yet even if it's still in play But you're right; it does run the chance of outing him to at least one player if he's mafia and false-claiming the present. If you think there's a better lynch, feel free to suggest one. | ||
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Tube has his conspiracy theories centered on HF (since most of mine center on GB, can't really say anything) Lian thinks we won't learn anything until HF flips Viva wants Oats cause he doesn't feel he's contributed at all, thinks rit is a plynch SL has some KS present theory (lol) Slam...who knows??? | ||
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On December 17 2014 07:32 Tubesock wrote: I first thought GB was mafia, but later he brought this big case on HF. I thought it would have been easier to just dismiss my case like the others did (assuming he responded partly due to my case and bringing him attention). I thought he was being set up as a scapegoat for a future mlynch. Then, he does very very scummy things (tunnels HF and then abandons it despite no real change in arguments, and then the drunk posts). My mafia read on HF is strenghtened by how I read the EoD2 votes: Given there were 2 wagons: I think it's more plausible that KelsierSC keeps his vote to protect Holyflare over the idea that KelsierSC is healthy enough to post, but not see that he could change his vote and lynch a Town!Holyflare and save himself. I have a very hard time believing the second situation. Afterwards, Holyflare seemed mad and frustrated because he's never been "mlynched" before, and that he was playing bad because if he wasn't he would have never been considered for lynch. Is this normal? Why wouldn't he feel relieved and happy town killed mafia? His never being mlynched streak stays intact, and we killed KelsierSC. Then, when asked about Ritoky he says: Most of you seem pretty passionate about this Ritoky lynch. You all claim he claimed scum, but this Holyflare post is pretty noncommittal to me. Although I won't support the Ritoky lynch myself, it's because for me Ritoky is #8 on the scum list and only that high because he lied about using the present. I don't see how his action helped mafia, how would we not notice that it's very unlikely you'd get a non-kill notification especially when it would be obvious when your target survived? How does that advance mafia's agenda? I firmly believe Ritoky will flip town. I will strongly stand by this, I'd love to see HF or my other scum reads stand by any of their reads. Live or die by it, but they haven't. Yet, you people say I'm town because I seem to stand by my reads but all my reads are wrong? What the what? I'd also like to hear how you guys think that Holyflare is a good lynch candidate for D2 and then all of a sudden he's town? What changed? How exactly did he redeem himself? He hasn't put in any cases, he's been arguing with people about presents or claims and then complaining because he has to post every 5 minutes while on his romantic vacation but then also says he's at his post limit? Later he admits the mods don't really care about the limit, but still. What's convinced you guys he's town since EoD2? Sicklucker Holyflare The_Templar Froggynoddy Lightningstrike It's less convinced he's town and more that I haven't seen anything to suggest he's playing scummy. (Also wasn't scumreading him EoD2). | ||
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On December 17 2014 07:44 Tubesock wrote: .I just believe that if he is playing well, you're not going to see any real scummy play. I would think as a mafia team, you'd need some players that are good at deflecting attention from their buddies, some who lurk about and go unnoticed, and someone who can steer town around to kill more town. That guy isn't going to act overly scummy. The best way I know how to play this game (and I'm definitely not the best or most experienced(ha!) player) is to look for the most scummy players. Once they flip (provided they're actually scum) you can try to determine the scum play based on their interactions/votes. It could be as simple as one scum partner protecting another, certainly. I don't believe so, but that doesn't mean I'm right. That's why I'm not going to criticize you for your HF read. I can see your point of view. | ||
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On December 17 2014 07:50 batsnacks wrote: btw usually when people sheep me really bad stuff happens... just saying Lol, the quintessential disclaimer. My current lynch pushes have a successful scum lynch rate of 1:1 lol. Cross your fingers and hope it becomes 2:1? Bats, you were right on all yours last game. | ||
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I AM!!! | ||
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Though why he thought he got a message, I have no clue o.0 | ||
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On December 17 2014 08:14 sicklucker wrote: Ya you vivax or me die tonight. I dont honestly believe mafia thinks they can push a mislynch on me. So we lynch hf next does that check out team? I'll save you from being killed by mafia, SL I think you may be scum. Just not tomorrow's lynch scum. | ||
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On December 17 2014 08:21 Fecalfeast wrote: I received a present and am opening it. -_- Please tell me you're joking and this didn't really just happen again. | ||
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FF lol >< WHY DO YOU THINK CLAIMING WHEN THEY CAN KILL/RB YOU TOMORROW NIGHT IS SMART?!?! | ||
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On December 17 2014 08:27 batsnacks wrote: This is exactly I don't trust you guys to lynch HF without me. Eh, we already know I wouldn't lynch HF anyway. Not tomorrow. Sorry bats. You may be right and I'm dead wrong again, but I have to trust myself xP or just not play this game at all. | ||
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Really, SL -_- Why are you so determined to force the "only town gives presents to town" line down our throats? Are you scared to get lynched. It sure as hell sounds that way. | ||
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On December 17 2014 08:34 sicklucker wrote: why are you so against listening to me and solving the game Scumhunting, bby. Listening to you does not necessarily mean solving the game. Unless you mean trying to gauge whether your play is town or scum motivated. Then, yes, I'm listening to you. Closely. | ||
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On December 17 2014 08:33 batsnacks wrote: I want everyone who isn't going to vote HF tomorrow to type and post the following: "I believe that at least two members of the mafia team, given the choice between killing town and killing mafia, chose to kill mafia." Find GB more scummy. Sorry. If I'm wrong, apologies to GB and anyone who lynches him based on my opinions, but it is what I believe. | ||
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On December 17 2014 08:56 liancourt wrote: Nigella save bats We lynch hf tomorrow. Why did rit vote his scum partner instead of hf??? seriously are ppl blind???? Broken record much? If no one else is noticing you, I am. | ||
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Hf possibly is scum, but the votes don't actually prove that he is. Give me something other than just the votes. I'm not sure why people find this difficult. | ||
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On December 17 2014 09:15 liancourt wrote: This is like saying give me more evidence than having my hand caught red handed in the cookie jar. Or i know i have the dead victims blood on my hands and i was the last persin to see that person but give more evidence lol Or like saying i didnt cheat on u while fucking a 21 year old girl right in front of ur gf and saying wheres the proof? I m done trying convince town now i know why hf is never lynched ever So what you're trying to tell me is HF never plays scummy as scum, that you only have the votes and that's all you'll ever have and you can't be bothered to look/find anything. Okay bro. Here's a question for you: Are you always this certain of your reads? You've voted 27nb, KSC and HF consecutively without once changing your vote during the entire day phase. That shows an astonishing level of certainty...or lack of reaction to what's going on around you. | ||
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Backpedaling on HF when you've been called out for tunneling on him for stupid reasons isn't really impressing me. Neither is the fact that once you were under fire for it and more people actually started listening, lian took up your mantle. Shouldn't you be on board with him right now going MAFIA WOULDN'T BUSS MAFIA OVER TOWN OMG YOU GUYS ARE SO STUPID LYNCH HF NOW!!! Bats is saying it, too. What changed, GB? | ||
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On December 17 2014 00:41 GlowingBear wrote: STOP! HAMMERTIME! SL, Vivax, lian, ritoky Get rekt. ^So why are we talking about HF now? I asked for your reads. You were going to give us the grand mafia plan. How does ritoky being mass murderer change anything? Was your scumlist contingent on which scum role he pulled? You gave us these and voted HF. You said not ritoky or HF today. You proposed froggynoddy before these four. What's going on with you, GB? | ||
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On December 17 2014 10:35 GlowingBear wrote: But well, my theory that scum could have hammered HF but didn't was proven right. If you're still scumreading me, remember that I was the one that started to ask questions about notification to ritoky. This is exactly what I was trying to achieve at that moment. That's why after his answer I asked anyone who was roleblocked day1 to claim. Also, as holyflare quoted Vivax, LoneMeow was shot by vigi. Proof one is that Obi said he was reading LM as mafia Proof two is that, as only 2 kills happened, Obi was shot AND roleblocked, which is TOO accurate night actions for mafia UNLESS they realise obi was the only one scumreading LM. And as they know they didn't shoot LM night one, it was easy to know who to roleblock and kill. You said okay and moved on. Bats is the one who figured it out. Come on, GB. You can't claim credit for what you didn't do. You didn't even vote ritoky after supposedly trapping him. | ||
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On December 17 2014 10:46 GlowingBear wrote: Because I couldn't get back earlier to change my vote. If you think that bats was the guy who made the hard push, you're wrong. If you really think I would question my scum partner so he slips doing something impossible... So what you're trying to tell me is that you were able to post in this thread upwards of 10 times after coming out with your amazing scum team revelation, talking about HF being a mislynch, but you weren't able to change your vote on HF. Uh huh. So what you're trying to tell me is you weren't blue-fishing trying to get people to claim being RBd? If you knew that they didn't receive notifications, then them claiming it would be the same as claiming to have a role. So what you're trying to tell me is that we should give you more credit than bats who actually did find out the real information and got rit to crack. GB...BS on top of BS. | ||
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On December 17 2014 10:58 rsoultin wrote: So what you're trying to tell me is that you were able to post in this thread upwards of 10 times after coming out with your amazing scum team revelation, talking about HF being a mislynch, but you weren't able to change your vote on HF. Uh huh. So what you're trying to tell me is you weren't blue-fishing trying to get people to claim being RBd? If you knew that they didn't receive notifications, then them claiming it would be the same as claiming to have a role. So what you're trying to tell me is that we should give you more credit than bats who actually did find out the real information and got rit to crack. GB...BS on top of BS. EBWOP: Red-fishing in this game, I suppose. What with the color reversal. | ||
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On December 10 2014 17:45 Palmar wrote: Clarification: Roleblocks, Saves and anything like that are never announced to the player. You will not know if you're roleblocked (although if you have a role you might be able to deduce it) and you will not know if you saved someone or got saved from a KP. First day, yo. No mystery. And even if you didn't remember (I didn't), that doesn't change that if people didn't receive notifications and claimed being RBd just to say as much, that outs them. So we're...scumreading who for doing the same thing you did to see if they could figure out who OWS shot? He clearly thought that he'd received a notification. If he's the mass-murderer there's no reason to attempt to lie about that, since he probably did take a shot at someone. If he thought that he'd received a notification, what's to say the rest of the scum team didn't? So how would a partner never ask that, then? *coughahemwifomcough* Oh, btw, if you haven't figured it out yet, I'm not really scared of what alignment you believe me to be. | ||
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How do you know the person who gave it to him is even still alive, GB? We've got a lot of dead right now ^^ | ||
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On December 17 2014 11:52 GlowingBear wrote: If he has got the present day3, the person was still alive day2. I the person was still alive day2, if it wasn't Kelsier who gave the present to HF, it was either obi or Trfel. Considering Trfel ended up voting HF and obi wasn't sure about HF, they probably didn't send him the present. My question continues: who sent the present to holyflare? Okay, I'll give you that. That's actually a fair point. -shrugs- Still don't know if anyone will own up to it, even if they are still alive. | ||
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ls,sl and vivax is it? or sl, vivax and lian? or froggynoddy? or HF? Kinda nutso for someone who was so sure earlier he was practically crowing. Yo, GB, if you're drunk again you should probably not post. (I was very nice and did not include your drunk posts in my case against you.) | ||
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On December 17 2014 12:23 GlowingBear wrote: And that person is...? Rsoultin, it's pretty clear who I'm scumreading right now and you can take froggynoddy out of that list. I may be wrong on SL because he claimed that he sent a present to damdred and maybe, MAYBE mafia preferred to kill damdy instead of roleblocking him night2. I don't really know. Really, you should read what I wrote. There are some mistypings but you can clearly see my stream of thought. You've been hard defending HF and ignoring my points and trying to discredit me for a long time. I'm ignoring you because you're either scum or donkey town for now. I think I have just one more post left now. Gonna really try to sleep. I have read what you wrote. I saw your earlier world. I can see your setup speculation revolving around the 4 possible ks...but it is definitely a stretch to assume that there was no marley and therefore are no ghosts -shrugs- or that no one was RBd or shot into the vet, so... Basing your lynch picks off that was poor analysis. You've also waffled a lot on HF since you came back into the thread, so it really isn't clear who your scumreads are. Do you have cases for any of them or is this all based on mechanics? Cause we can speculate on mechanics until the cows come home. | ||
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(Also, not really sure that we should be lynching anyone at this point based solely on filter length. Filter length+content I'm good with.) | ||
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We just got through with that and FF goes and does it. Can't even begin... He has a green check, but there is one mafia who can have a green check...and then it gets into extreme!WIFOM. Would mafia really make the same play twice?!?! Would they make it twice solely because no one would think they'd make it twice?!?! So I'm kind of ignoring it for now cause...wtf. Hopefully he gets shot lol so we don't have to revisit. | ||
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Knowing that ritoky claimed opening a present that he probably either never had but almost definitely didn't open...we have to default to scum motive. Which was clearly delaying his consideration for lynch. Unless anyone can think of another reason for mafia to do that. The fact that he had an extra ks makes why he claimed the ks present pretty obvious. So. Being one of the last votes on KSC definitely could be interpreted as a way to get town cred. Which doesn't really clear up HFs alignment in and of itself, since he had been scumreading KSC all Day 2, and that was about the only move he could make whether both trains were mafia or not. So, despite bats' mocking, I think we have to look at GB and HF independent of where ritoky decided to vote Day 2. Can anyone make a case against HF? The scummiest stuff I've seen from him is basically how easily he gets derailed into rage!fitting at people for scumreading him lol...which, given that's not productive to town...although he does make some reads independent of rage!fitting, too. I don't think that makes him more scummy than GB, but it is something to consider. | ||
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On December 17 2014 23:18 GlowingBear wrote: HOLYFLARE YOU GAVE YOUR PRESENT TO WHO? Also, do not see the importance of this over actually scumhunting, but if that's what you want to focus on, GB, yay for you? | ||
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1. GBs fluctuating reads based on a scum layout he cant know (unless hes scum), his attempt to posthumously claim credit for rit's flip when bats caught the lie that he ignored/missed, his claimed attempt to get those roleblocked to come forward (blatant role hunting w/ no notifications) and his continued attempt to claim im not pushing my scumreads while complaining about me pushing him in the same breath (lol) can all be added to my case against him 2. Someone should take a look at SLs filter if i dont get to it and see if he made any reads that werent related to presents, sheeping gb, or if all his original reads only came after trfel called him out on it in trfels last post 3. Someone should also look at lian and see if his content was as unwavering as his votes (which were never changed during all 3 day phases) Apart from that, kinda obv why im defending the guy my two scumreads were pushing when i saw nothing overtly scummy from hf. i said gbdidnt need to make his case as a response to the ppl voting hf before hed posted it as a comment that they didnt need his case to vote the way he wanted them to, not because i didnt want him to post it lol. this is why reading a post in a vaccuum is pointless. ciao folks. back to work | ||
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On December 18 2014 08:29 LightningStrike wrote: This pains me but fair enough ##Unvote ##Vote Holyflare Lol, seriously LS? I'm kind of disappointed in you, honestly. Both you and SL already know that NKs are WIFOM. You were both in my first game when we all discussed it. Yet you're going to take present speculation and NKs over a strong scum case? Remove lynches, NKs, and presents, and where has HF been scummy? More to the point, where has he been more scummy than GB? You really think SL is town? Have you ever paused to wonder why he's been hyper-focused on presents the entire game? He gave a present to Damdred. Damdred died and flipped town. Mafia would never give presents to town. Unless, of course, mafia gave a present to town, killed him, then made the link that town must give presents to town. He's been hyper-focused on this the entire game. And hyper-focused that no matter how scummy GB is acting, GB is town. Did it never occur to you that mafia could kill two town members who now seem quite townie but are reading HF as scum precisely to make it look like mafia is trying to protect HF? Did it never occur to you that a member of the scum team itself might not bring forth this interpretation of the NKs, no matter how WIFOM it is, to try to sway your vote? What makes SL town in this game? And even more relevant...what makes him right? He has to be one of the least logical players in the game. | ||
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Eat your heart out, glowybear. No NKs are going to make you suddenly townie in my eyes. He flips scum, SL, you are on my radar. If you're really town, you might want to take a good look at your buddy and see if your faith is really as well-placed as you believe it to be. | ||
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On December 18 2014 09:15 Alakaslam wrote: Pah! Why Vivax alive so long? Anyone think he is playing poorly? Lol, depends on the day with him it seems. He's also read almost everyone in this game as scum at one point or another. But I've seen some decent posts with him, backed up by some sound reasoning, so I'll reserve judgment for now. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On December 18 2014 10:02 sicklucker wrote: Gb can still be mafia. But hes so less likely and he correctly explain why hf is mafia. your on my mafia radar now the line in the sand has been drawn. Hf basicly claimed by not telling us who he sent the present to if you didnt read the thread. No bucko. Not everything in this game is about presents. In fact, it's your ridiculous present fixation that would have left ritoky alive forever if we'd listened to you. Give me a reason HF is scum that doesn't have to do with presents, lynches or NKs. Make me a case. If there's a case to be made, you're smart enough to find and make it. Cause no, GBs case is lolfully awful from Day 2, and this present/NK thing is just ludicrous. It has no bearing on whether a player is town or scum. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On December 16 2014 15:48 rsoultin wrote: GlowingBear...Stubborn or Anti-Xmas??? - He made several unexplained reads throughout the game (however a few, not all, were explained after he was pressed for reasons, i.e. me and SL) I can see early gut reads, but not later into the game, and not to this extent. + Show Spoiler + On December 09 2014 11:58 GlowingBear wrote: HMMM I see. I may want to lynch damdred after this. Don't ask me why On December 09 2014 12:01 GlowingBear wrote: K gonna sleep SL is town rsoultin is town Bats is scummy I'm going to lynch kush if I don't see his town tell. Good night. On December 10 2014 00:15 GlowingBear wrote: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA THAT'S MEAN. But for some reason, it makes me town read you. On December 10 2014 10:53 GlowingBear wrote: Cool, townslam. I think this game is going to be easy. On December 12 2014 01:09 GlowingBear wrote: Koshi is mafia, c'mon. Do I have a post count in my filter or I have to count one by one? On December 13 2014 03:52 GlowingBear wrote: Bats is town. This game is getting easier. - He delayed or completely failed to make reads most of the game (I don't think anyone can forget how long it took him to make his HF case.) + Show Spoiler + On December 11 2014 11:58 GlowingBear wrote: I'm gonna be warned if I keep posting. Ritoky is probably mafia. I'll only post once this night with updates reads. Expect a big post. On December 12 2014 22:10 GlowingBear wrote: I want to read more of the thread before making a case on HF, but a lot of his reasoning is off. The lack of push on ritoky's present claim, the multiple scumreads of wagons outside the 27nb wagon and the 27nb mislynch is all playing against him. His entrance in this game is awful, he picking on bunnies for being contradictory when picking up on frogs awful entrance but not picking on Vivax post on frog... This kind of double standards worries me. - The "recipient" of GBs "present" was being scumread by GB all through Night 1, until apparently he decided that HF must be scum therefore ritoky wasn't, and when questioned afterwards why he would give a "present" to possible scum, he responds that his read was "null" At the time of the gift-giving? I saw no reads from GB on ritoky before the one demanding he be lynched.: + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2014 05:52 GlowingBear wrote: lynch ritoky tomorrowBye On December 12 2014 08:09 GlowingBear wrote: I'm gonna read this thread now. And I'm going to hammer mafai. Btw, lynch ritoky. I gave him the present. But he claimed that he got the present at night, not caring for being roleblocked. Like, lol. On December 12 2014 08:17 GlowingBear wrote: The ability you earn can be roleblocked. I just thought you could use it night one instead of using it night 2. It doesn't matter anyway, you just revealed to mafia that you have a role now, which makes no sense for a townie. On December 12 2014 08:22 GlowingBear wrote: It's not WIFOM, rit. It's just looking through perspectives. I can't understand the psychology of a townie who decides to claim he is going to open the present he received. You don't die night one, then BAM! You obviously got a skill and will be killed/roleblocked night2 if you're town. I can never see town doing that. On December 14 2014 03:52 GlowingBear wrote: You're so focused on this matter that you fail to properly evaluate what I've brought for holyflare. What do you think of the case? Of the arguments? Why do you think mafia would make a case on one of the strongest players in the game? Do you see ANY mafia motivation behind it? I thought ritoky was mafia. I reevaluated it after putting more thought on it, mostly when I've realised HF is sure to be scum. I'm saying people are town based on gut feelings and probability. I have experience with some players here and I feel comfortable after I see some patterns. Like batsnacks, his townplay is like this. Slam also. It's hard to explain why, because it's more of a feeling than logical reads. I've townread you for the way you evaluated the present thing on sicklucker. I'm still reading you as town. I want you to get out of the tunnel you're currently in. On December 14 2014 04:09 GlowingBear wrote: Dude, I gave it to someone I thought was null at the time and that I can't properly read, so, if he was town, he would have a power and if he dies, it doesn't matter because it's less one in the game I can't read. I was going to change the target but I couldn't make it until deadline. That's why my vote is wasted. By the way, STOP VOTING TUBESOCK BECAUSE HE IS TOWN - Relentlessly tunnels HF for weak reasons, beginning with the simple observation that HF is still alive after N1. More curiously, the amazing "case"? All points he brought up beforehand. Amazing how long it took him to build it. Also note the weakness of this case. He cites 1) an entrance 2) responding differently to people town/null reading froggynoddy's entrance where it's clear that Vivax is calling his read null and 27nb's response is less clear 3)looking into wasted votes as if doing so automatically means that HF considers those voters scum, and someone town-aligned never would pay attention to the votes outside the train 4)a null-leaning town read on froggynoddy who HF never called scum during the game somehow being contradictory 5) HFs read on GB being contradictory because "spreading falsities" should apparently be in the same camp as doing something "outrageously wrong" and make GB a town read? Additionally we see what appears to be a clear attempt to try to warp Trfel's status as seer to suit GBs anti-HF train. + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2014 08:07 GlowingBear wrote: ALERT!!! ALERT!!! HF ISN'T DEAD NIGHT1 On December 12 2014 10:16 GlowingBear wrote: I'm impressed you're not questioning Ritoky for claiming being GIVAN PREZANT, HF. What do you think of it? On December 12 2014 10:48 GlowingBear wrote: Just check timestamps. You were here before. You know about the presents. You didn't push ritoky. You're not pushing him now. Your excuse of just coming to the thread isn't valid. On December 12 2014 10:49 GlowingBear wrote: Oops you're pushing him now. Gonna sleep and see the outcome of it tomorrow. On December 12 2014 21:24 GlowingBear wrote: Slam is town. Holyflare is mafia. Ritoky's reason could be legit. I admit I tunnelled a bit after the present thing. I can, although with some reluctance, see his actions coming from a town perspective. More from a mafia perspective, but... I'll have to reevaluate his play in this game. I want to lynch Holyflare today. On December 12 2014 22:02 GlowingBear wrote: Yeah, that's a point. I agree with you. The problem is: HF is giving me scum vibes and although I know he busses a lot, I find hard to believe that they would both make a case against each other. On December 12 2014 22:10 GlowingBear wrote: I want to read more of the thread before making a case on HF, but a lot of his reasoning is off. The lack of push on ritoky's present claim, the multiple scumreads of wagons outside the 27nb wagon and the 27nb mislynch is all playing against him. His entrance in this game is awful, he picking on bunnies for being contradictory when picking up on frogs awful entrance but not picking on Vivax post on frog... This kind of double standards worries me. On December 13 2014 05:28 GlowingBear wrote: Lol what kind of info? Lololol Ok, listen: The only important point regarding presents is that ritoky claimed he got one, which is more detrimental than helpful, because, in case he don't die night1, he dies/get roleblocked night2, which is awful for town. But if you think of it again, there is no motive for him to claim that he is opening the present as mafia. I just used my brain a little more and got to this conclusion. Which means that talking about presents is only helpful when considering mass claiming. We should drop this discussion right now. HF doesn't look like he is pushin town agenda, but his own self agenda. This looks much more like mafia holyflare. He points out things that aren't really mafiaish and doesn't seem to try to further identify people's alignment. His pushes aren't for solving the game. They are mostly done just to push, just to make a lynch happen, maybe. His backtracking on froggy is weird because he kept an absolute stance regarding bunnies, who I just say sounded more null than anything, and froggy is leaning scum. HF once came to the thread and said that we should look for people outside the NB wagon, which is ridiculous. He wasn't talking about people who WASTED their votes. He was talking about people outside the main wagon. He also said me and ritoky looked the worst. You can see he is doing a timid push on ritoky, but it really doesn't sound like he is trying to figure out his alignment. Weirdly enough, the present claim from ritoky remained unquestioned by HF. MOREOVER, he did not make ANY attempt to figure out my alignment when he said I looked bad at that time. He is scum. On December 13 2014 06:15 GlowingBear wrote: Yes. And I've just realised he talked about froggy looking bad, but he townreads him out of nothing later, when I ask him about Vivax and froggy. That's it guys. HF is scum. I'm voting noone else. On December 13 2014 07:09 GlowingBear wrote: Just vote HF. He will flip scum. I've just got home and I'm tired. Don't force me into making a full case on him. On December 13 2014 10:46 GlowingBear wrote: HOLYFLARE IS MAFIA! Part 1 Entrance His entrance is bad. He says obvious things like saving posts because of post cap (which is a big cap, by the way, you can waste some posts). He then says he will ignore people that wastes posts. The problem is: he calls Templar out for the RNG thing but does not take any stance regarding it. He is also okay to ignore a thing that in a game with post cap could be considered a scum trait. Then he says the obvious thing about not wasting posts. This means (A) his entrance is a waste of post itself for not taking any stance and saying the obvious, (B) he is okay to ignore scum traits. Why this comes from a mafia: this is just a post to try looking contributive while being noncomittal and fluffy. This is also a pre-excuse to overlook any scummy people who are wasting their posts. Froggynoddy's entrance Froggynoddy's entrance is bad. It is. + Show Spoiler [If you have no idea why his entrance i…] + This entrance is bad because mafia tends to have a hard time to introduce themselves into the game. They will try to sound serious, to sound committal, so they look like they're town. Under this perspective: "Gogogo" is completely forced. Lynching lurkers wasn't being a trend in the topic but he says that policy lynchings are stupid and we shouldn't discuss it. The thread wasn't discussing. So, unnecessary to bring this up. By saying that we shouldn't discuss it, he starts a discussion towards it. But that's not the only problem. In the end of his sentence he ASSUMES it is ok to go against lurkers LOLOLOLOL. Why this comes from mafia? As I've already said, mafia will try to look contributive, so this is just him trying look townie by saying something very easy to say as mafia. Worse, he then contradicts himself saying that it is okay to lynch lurkers under the lack of good target, which makes his policy-talking shit a waste of post. It is also a pre-excuse if he chooses to lynch lurkers later in the day, so he won't take responsibility for it Holyflare picks on it in a timid way: + Show Spoiler + On December 09 2014 08:23 Holyflare wrote: So what you're saying is policy lynches are terrible but if it all goes sour you want to policy lynch?? So he also thinks this post is bad. Bunnies and Vivax, however, have different opinions: + Show Spoiler + On December 09 2014 08:32 27ninjabunnies wrote: @ Slam @ Damdred Didn't HF basically do just the same thing? Except more of he came into the thread with "Omgerd we have cap posts. Im town, follow me later" and then leaves. And yet, Damdred, you have him as town for basically a shit post? While I agree, people talking about policy lynching and lurkers seem off, he seems just an easy target for people to scum read because of that. On December 09 2014 08:35 Vivax wrote: What froggy said is simple common sense but also something that never matters cause at the end of the day it's mostly some scummy looking person getting lynched. I don't see it as scummy, just as something useless to talk about which isn't scummy at this stage of the game. The biggest accusation you could make is that he's so serious in a setting where people are kinda joking, but that's not enough to go with in my book. It's more like he's annoyed that people are discussing policies when in past games it always led to that statement of his making the most sense. Null for me. Notice that the basis of their argument is similar: it's a very easy target for scum. Then Holyflare comes with this very opportunistic post: Why this comes from a mafia See, why does Holyflare doesn't attack Vivax for using the same argument? Why does he completely ignore Vivax and goes shit aggressive against bunnies? Why doesn't he even do that against froggy, the contradictory one? Because bunnies will turn into an easy lynch and the others may be (I SAID MAY BE) his scum partners. Holyflare even ended lynching bunnies. Then says that people outside the NB wagon are scummy, including froggy. But he makes NO ATTEMPT to discover his alignment. He is just pushing his own agenda, without even considering solving the game. He just says someone is scum and pushes it. Putting it in a simpler way: he says what town agenda is (looking to the wasted votes), but goes against his own agenda (pushing ritoky in a timid way) This is the end of part 1. Part 2 will be tomorrow, because I'm going to a party. On December 14 2014 05:49 GlowingBear wrote: PART 2 Odd final count analysis and lack of push on town agenda A good way to catch mafia is looking at who wasted their votes on the final votecount of a day. This looks like an attempt to do that. But, you see, he oddly points out EVERY other person outside the main wagon, which is NOT a reasonable thing, specially when we are talking about such strong player as Holyflare. Following his logic, me, frog and hts looks terrible. This is him stablishing the town agenda. In fact, our wasted votes looks terrible. Reminder: he didn't like froggynoddy's entrance either. But look at how inconsistent is his play: he stablishes town agenda, but pushes his own agenda (pushing ritoky). He does NOTHING to see these 3 people's alignment. He is NOT interested in these 3 people's alignment. He is just interested to look like an aggressive townie pushing ritoky, but he is actually not trying to solve the game. He is not trying to discover ritoky's alignment. He is just pushing for the sake of pushing someone. Why this comes from a mafia?: Mafia tends to look contributive but lacks the town intention for solving the game. He simply displays 3 names people should take a look at but does not go after those names. He is disinterested in solving the game, to discover people's alignment. That's not a townie. A townie would go against those 3 names he spoke of. He just posted this analysis because he wants to look contributive. Town read on froggynoddy When I noticed these patterns, I inquired him for reads on froggynoddy and Vivax. This is his response: You see, he was scumreading froggy noddy, said he looked terrible by his wasted vote, BUT CALLS HIM TOWN WHEN ASKED FOR A READ. This is someone who is NOT consistent with his reads. This is someone who gives fabricated reads and forgets them, or someone who doesn't want to scumread a possible partner. I know for a fact that Holyflare does this a lot. He scumreads a partner to further townread him. Remember: HE HAD NO ATTEMPT TO DISCOVER FROGGY'S ALIGNMENT. He started having this townread on him out of nothing, which is completely scummy. I'm sure you can understand mafia motivation behind it. Scumread on me This is hilarious. I want you to check these two posts regarding me, from the most recent to the oldest: HAHAHA HE SAYS IT'S A TOWN TRAIT FOR ME FOR BEING OUTRAGEOUSLY WRONG, BUT WHEN HE THINKS I'M OUTRAGEOUSLY WRONG THE SCUMREADS ME. This is the most inconsistent thing I have ever seen. He didn't scumread me because I acted scummy. He scumread me because he felt I was getting close to him. He is trying to discredit me and to survive, and not to figure out my alignment. Town perspective would be evaluate my action and figure out my alignment for something he already knows about my gameplay. Mafia perspective is "I'm getting caught, I have to make this guy look bad" ##VOTE: HOLYFLARE RIGHT NOW!!!! On December 15 2014 09:53 GlowingBear wrote: By the way, why would Santa try to lynch holyflare by having a "gut feeling"? His check was obvious not on Kelsier. Hm. On December 15 2014 10:10 GlowingBear wrote: ##Vote:Holyflare I'll keep my vote on him until he claims. OBI if you shot HF you're insane. -Calls for mass roleclaims multiple times, recants, then calls for mass roleclaims again. With possibly 2-3 town roles still out there, and no set number of anything, how does this benefit town, and why won't he stop harping about it? + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2014 08:30 GlowingBear wrote: I'm wondering if mass claiming day2 is a good idea. On December 12 2014 08:58 GlowingBear wrote: Who was masoned with kita? Time to claim. On December 13 2014 03:25 GlowingBear wrote: You guys are out of your minds. I had to come quickly to my work so I couldn't bring the points on holyflare. By the way, mass claiming IS okay now, as a lot of vts died. It will narrow our lynches A LOT On December 13 2014 03:52 GlowingBear wrote: Why mafia roles are relevant? If people mass claim, mafia will have to counter claim in order to survive for long. This means that, at least, we will have to decide between 2 claims, when one is true and the other is false. Considering Scrooge is dead, we have 3 confirmed roles for town. There's obviously a Santa. That's 4 people we are not considering lynching today already. It's a lot. I don't care much for power roles. All we have to do to win the game is to lynch mafia, that's all. On December 14 2014 00:43 GlowingBear wrote: Ok, now that I'm sober (although extremely hangover), and before I continue with the case on Holyflare, I want to say a word about presents. Although talking about the power presents give is useless, there is an important thing about its mechanics that we should consider: Mafia is unlikely to give presents to town + Show Spoiler [Why?] + They have 66% chance of giving a important power to town. That said, if a mafia holds a present, he is most likely to give it to a partner and not opening it until they can see if the present town holds is the death one. Town, in the other hand, will give it to anyone day1 and the townie will most likely open it because they have a very good chance of opening a power present. This means: If damdred opened a present and flipped town, sicklucker is most likely town. If ritoky claims he's got a present and that he is opening it, he's most likely town, because mafia would hold it and give to another partner to see if that was the death present or not. There is no motive for mafia to say they will open it, since that, if they open the death present, they will flip mafia anyway, so ritoky's explanation actually looks fair. That's it guys. Btw, no mass claiming. It was a bad idea of mine. I've just realised mafia will have problems with so many possible powers against them. On December 14 2014 01:19 GlowingBear wrote: I'm not ignoring it, I'm considering probability. Mafia can do whatever they want to do. But it is likely that they do that? I don't believe so. He obviously received the present because I sent it to him. Unnecessary to claim it as mafia. Also, I know the setup was open on titanic v, but the thing is that a lot of vts died, the probability of we having a lot of power roles alive is high and if we all claim, we will be able to narrow people and discussion. We will narrow our lunch targets a lot. Anyway, it doesn't matter now because it is a better idea to not claim. Masons are confirmed to each other, aren't they? Because if they are, we will have another confirmed town without a power role. Do you understand why claiming masons is okay? On December 15 2014 10:42 GlowingBear wrote: I don't think that's how the mechanic works... Anyway, yes, I was talking about night1 It has been a long day and I'm not thinking properly now. Gonna put thoughts on things tomorrow. I gently ask for anyone who was roleblocked night1 and night2 to claim it. On December 16 2014 02:09 GlowingBear wrote: I don't get why people aren't claiming. I don't fucking care about the shorty JK power. I care to know who is town and who is mafia because all we have to do is lynch them. Why did the mason didn't claim yet? I want to clear names from my head and go against scummy people. This is the most important thing. Yet here we are wasting our time instead of figuring out other people's alignment. - Presents unasked for defense/explanation for “gift-giving” being a purely town-motivated action, going out of his way to clear SL when SL was not being scumread/under fire. This one is simply a bit "why" for me. What with their duo, I can only think that a scum!GB has pocketed a town!SL and is trying to be read as town by association: Damdred(town)-SL-GB-ritoky??? Or, scum!GB is trying to protect scum!SL by giving him a WIFOM "confirmation". + Show Spoiler + On December 14 2014 00:43 GlowingBear wrote: Ok, now that I'm sober (although extremely hangover), and before I continue with the case on Holyflare, I want to say a word about presents. Although talking about the power presents give is useless, there is an important thing about its mechanics that we should consider: Mafia is unlikely to give presents to town + Show Spoiler [Why?] + They have 66% chance of giving a important power to town. That said, if a mafia holds a present, he is most likely to give it to a partner and not opening it until they can see if the present town holds is the death one. Town, in the other hand, will give it to anyone day1 and the townie will most likely open it because they have a very good chance of opening a power present. This means: If damdred opened a present and flipped town, sicklucker is most likely town. If ritoky claims he's got a present and that he is opening it, he's most likely town, because mafia would hold it and give to another partner to see if that was the death present or not. There is no motive for mafia to say they will open it, since that, if they open the death present, they will flip mafia anyway, so ritoky's explanation actually looks fair. That's it guys. Btw, no mass claiming. It was a bad idea of mine. I've just realised mafia will have problems with so many possible powers against them. On December 14 2014 03:46 GlowingBear wrote: Tube, sicklucker claims he sent damdred a present Damdred dies and flips town You can assume it was the death present Mafia is unlikely to give present to town day1 Therefore, SL is town - Throws a fit EoD2 when demands to vote HF and trust him fail, and piecemeal case is generally rejected. I included this mostly because people seemed to think this was a sign of being town. Unless bullying and yelling at people is a town trait, I don't really get it...Occasionally could be considered a joke, but this was completely over the top imo. + Show Spoiler + On December 14 2014 04:57 GlowingBear wrote: Obi, trust me. Vote for holyflare. Trust me please. On December 14 2014 06:04 GlowingBear wrote: I WILL LYNCH WHOEVER DOES NOT VOTES ON HOLYFLARE AFTER THE BEST CASE OF MY LIFE I WILL LYNCH WHOEVER DOES NOT VOTES ON HF AND I'LL PM GAY PORN EVERYDAY TO YOU GUYS. EVERYDAY. On December 14 2014 06:06 GlowingBear wrote: Seriously. READ MY CASE. VOTE HOLYFLARE OR POINT OUT WHY MY CASE IS WRONG. On December 14 2014 06:07 GlowingBear wrote: You will switch now. Mafia is deflecting the ongoing HF's lynch. It was the best opportunity for them to lynch HF but they started deflecting it to FF. You will switch NOW. On December 14 2014 06:12 GlowingBear wrote: DO YOU NEED ME TO LINK MY CASE AGAIN? BECAUSE I CAN AND I NEED YOU TO LOOK AT IT AND SAY OMG GLOWINGBEAR GENIUS WHARRGARBL http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?page=121#2402 On December 14 2014 06:20 GlowingBear wrote: REALLY RITOKY? I'VE MADE A STRONG CASE ON THE GUY WHO WAS PUSHING YOU AND TEMPLAR'S CASE IS GOOD? NO WORDS REGARDING MY CASE? On December 14 2014 06:25 GlowingBear wrote: his case is just a little bit after mine, dude, lol. I read it but I'm too heated now. I'll getting out of the thread for a while. Please, all of you, read my case and give thoughts (and mostly, vote HF) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?page=121#2402 On December 14 2014 06:46 GlowingBear wrote: Get back to HF, ff. - Doesn’t want vig to shoot top scum read and refuses to explain why until Day 3, claiming HF could have been town/vet when he hasn’t townread him the entire game since early Day 1. His vet story is particularly strange. Worried the vig might waste a bullet? Wouldn't that be a possibility regardless of who the vig shot? If GB thinks HF is scum, he should want him dead to confirm, and GB never admits to thinking HF isn't scum. + Show Spoiler + On December 14 2014 10:34 GlowingBear wrote: 1st paragraph won't happen :/ although I want HF lynched, I don't think he is a good vigi shot. 2nd paragraph: yeah, he isn't useless, but he is scummy. I'll debunk his defense soon. Although I'll say in advance that I may have misread something in his filter, since I couldn't find where he explicitly said froggy is scummy. All I've got was him calling his entrance out and saying froggy looks terrible (which, for me, is a way to say someone looks scummy), but I couldn't find where he explicitly said he was scum. Bummer. I believe it's possible that both wagons were mafia. Holyflare's vote was on FF. I simply don't like FFs wagon. Gonna check it again On December 14 2014 10:52 GlowingBear wrote: No specific logic. Bad vigi shot. That's all. Let's move on to the next topic. On December 14 2014 11:00 GlowingBear wrote: I can, but this is not a thing to be discussed at night. I can talk about any other topic you want On December 14 2014 11:23 GlowingBear wrote: Listen: we can discuss any topic regarding HF. There are a lot of reasons why I think HF isn't a good shot. I don't want to talk about any of them. But we can discuss HFs alignment, that's for sure. I still think he is scum. Odd thing: Kelsier didn't vote HF to keep alive. Thoughts on this? On December 15 2014 22:14 GlowingBear wrote: Where did froggy agreed with my case? I didn't want vigi to shoot HF because: 1) He could be town (I'm positive he is mafia but I don't have perfect information) and the way he claimed he was a role made me think he was the veteran. That's why I didn't want to talk, at night, exactly WHY HF wasn't a good shot 2) We have questions marks/scummy lurkers that are more worthy of a vigi shot: froggy, oats were the best shots. - Weird froggynoddy association flip comment, suggesting that if froggynoddy flips HF is scum. Does he really buy the froggynoddy nonsense he's spouting in his case? Or...could it be that this is a buss intended to add credence to his not-so-shiny case? + Show Spoiler + On December 15 2014 06:22 GlowingBear wrote: No he didn't Stop talking about his shitty claim, we will now what will happen after the nightkills. I just ask you guys to be careful. In case I die, it means nothing regarding HFs alignment. Don't fall into WIFOM with the night kills. Anyway, I think I'll head the other way. If HF is mafia, I have this association that froggy noddy is mafia with him. So instead of going against HF tomorrow, I'll go against froggy noddy. By the way, if we have a vigi (which I don't think so), froggynoddy is an okay target. - Finally...yes, there is an end!...The weird reads on me. Note how he first links me to HFs alignment, then quickly backs down to a null read, then a town read. Suspiciously, this looks like a nod to general thread sentiment. + Show Spoiler + On December 15 2014 13:58 GlowingBear wrote: Seriously, if HF flips mafia, I have contundent facts that rsoultin is hod partner. Although I must say I'm impressed with his play here. On December 16 2014 02:28 GlowingBear wrote: I was reading slam as town but I'm not sure anymore though. I don't know what I make of rsoultin. Templar fits the lurking mafia Obi dying and not shooting is weird. It's hard to believe mafia nailed his alignment, roleblocked and killed him. But it seems he was roleblocked which means ritoky could be saved by nigella. Which again makes no sense. Argh. Froggynoddy is worthless in this game So is oats, who townread Vivax day1 after a long quarrel but keeps his vote on his townread HTS looks bad because it doesn't look like she is trying. Same to Tubesock. It makes no sense, however, that Templar is scum with Tubesock. His pushes on Tubesock are timid. I can see Templar very well being mafia. On December 16 2014 10:32 GlowingBear wrote: By tunnelling you, I've made rsoultin mafia by association. But looking at his filter and other dead people I feel like he is most likely town, although he has this weird things I'm pointing out. Please feel free to comment/ask questions. Like, why would mafia!ritoky successfully lynch mafia!ksc instead of HF? Well, if HF is town (and I have yet to see real evidence that he isn't), mafia!GB cannot afford to have HF flip. (No vig shot lololol) It really is that simple. If they can string this along to LYLO, they will. Explain where my case is faulty. I will openly acknowledge that some points are stronger than others, and at least one (the one about the raging/screaming fit) is more personal opinion than anything. However, explain how most of this case is faulty, with the added additions of: - scumreads based on scum setup when we don't know the scum setup (and he keeps changing it besides) - claiming he was the one who should get credit for ritoky when he asked about the notification, did not call ritoky out for the lie, did not ask about those roleblocked coming forward until after bats accused ritoky, ignored that asking them to do so was the same as asking them to claim having a power-role If you can explain all or most of these points away, in a logical manner, and give me an HF case with enough scum points to trump all the things I've found on GB, I will change my vote. YOU HAVE MY WORD. But I don't think you can, because I don't think the case is there. Prove me wrong, SL. | ||
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On December 18 2014 10:34 rsoultin wrote: Explain where my case is faulty. I will openly acknowledge that some points are stronger than others, and at least one (the one about the raging/screaming fit) is more personal opinion than anything. However, explain how most of this case is faulty, with the added additions of: - scumreads based on scum setup when we don't know the scum setup (and he keeps changing it besides) - claiming he was the one who should get credit for ritoky when he asked about the notification, did not call ritoky out for the lie, did not ask about those roleblocked coming forward until after bats accused ritoky, ignored that asking them to do so was the same as asking them to claim having a power-role If you can explain all or most of these points away, in a logical manner, and give me an HF case with enough scum points to trump all the things I've found on GB, I will change my vote. YOU HAVE MY WORD. But I don't think you can, because I don't think the case is there. Prove me wrong, SL. EBWOP: I was wrong on the timeline here. GB actually asked for those RBd to come forward...before ritoky ever answered about whether he received a notification or not. Then dropped it entirely with an "okay" when ritoky said he had. Nearly 19 hours after that call, bats came out and said that the notification thing was a lie. Yeah, clearly you were the one who should receive credit for getting ritoky lynched, GB. (If anyone sees any other facts I got wrong that I'm basing my read off of, please let me know.) | ||
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On December 18 2014 11:35 Alakaslam wrote: Wait what is this half the sky? Speak? ??? You've lost me here lol. I don't see her in the thread anywhere since the night ended? | ||
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On December 18 2014 12:44 liancourt wrote: stop voting gb and vote hf omg why are you so scared of lynching hf?????? You never answered my question. Are you always this certain about your reads/votes? Day 1: 27nb - you never voted anyone else Day 2: KSC - you never voted anyone else Day 3: HF - you never voted anyone else Why? | ||
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Sides, I thought you said I was mafia just a couple posts ago. Change your mind again? Also@lian Why don't you explain your reads to us, then, so we can be as certain as you? If you feel that strongly you should be able to make a good case. | ||
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Are you saying you agree with their statements, disagree or are you suggesting that they were night killed for them? Analysis please. | ||
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On December 18 2014 13:22 liancourt wrote: have u been not reading? i've been saying hf is mafia after day 2 ended Yes, you have been saying to kill HF. That is not an explanation. The only explanations I remember you giving were that you had no clue what to do so you needed to know his alignment (Day 3) and we should kill him because ritoky voted for KSC (Night 3). That is not a case. One is being uncertain (why would I follow uncertainty?) and the other is WIFOM. Now, please. Your read. I am not an a=a type of person. You can't convince me that HF is mafia simply by saying that he is, any more than GB can convince me he is town just by saying that he is, or that he didn't read my case because he is town so it can't be true. My case was mostly stating facts and quoting, with actual analysis in red. I left it to others to determine if they thought those points were as scummy as I did. Your read, lian. Unless you don't feel strongly enough about your vote to make one. | ||
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On December 18 2014 13:32 Vivax wrote: The wifom isnt crazy, you either believe they got killed for what they said or cause scum wants us to believe what they said. If you ever played scum you should know it's almost always for the first reason, so not as wifomy as you make it to be. I'm voting HF. Well, that answers my question to you, that you didn't bother to answer directly. You may as well have added SL's post as a quote to the bottom of your others. Here's another question for you: Do you always scumhunt by analyzing what nightkills say, and how has that worked out for you if that's the case? You did this on Day 2 as well with FF. At least within this thread, that's a pattern, but I don't know if that's your meta or not. So I'm inclined to think you believe it...even though I'm not completely sure as to why. Do you still believe FF is scum based on the kills from Night 1? The time I got night-killed last game, I was scumreading two townies xP So at least it can be said that nightkills aren't always based on what the player is saying (as well as the fact that I'm not always right). (Also find it very interesting when players start ignoring me when I ask them questions. Is that because you don't know how to respond? Or am I just scary? -growls-) | ||
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However, if y'all want to analyze night kills and probably walk right into a mislynch, that is certainly your prerogative. I cannot stop any of you. | ||
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On December 18 2014 13:45 LightningStrike wrote: If HF flips town you will call me and rsoultin scum for not pushing the majority lynch when we having our heads held high on a really solid case. Sorry about earlier rsoultin but I had to convence sicklucker I did town read him. No worries, LS. I actually don't take it personally when people vote/think differently than I do lol. I don't think voting based off nightkills is a good idea, it's true, but I wouldn't hate you even if you didn't change your vote back. | ||
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Like I said, it's a pattern at least within this game, so I'm inclined to think you do believe analyzing nightkills is a good way to play this game (even if I don't agree). I can see where you get your ideas from. (They're just so obvious that I feel it's very unlikely that scum wouldn't recognize how obvious it is, which is WIFOM regardless, this would mafia play this stupid or not train of thought, which is why I try to avoid it.) But I can see where you get your ideas from. Will you at least entertain mine? | ||
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On December 18 2014 13:58 sicklucker wrote: Wow hts is scum. There is a good case wtf are you guys talking about. Im not wasting my post to say it when me and gb have posted the same case. hint hint HE WONT TELL US WHO HE SENT THE PRESENT TOO SO THEY CANT CC HIM That is not a case. That is speculation about a present. If I never hear the word "present" from you again, it will be none too soon -_- You're trying to tell me that this one thing trumps everything else? Are you kidding me right now? Where's your analysis of my case and why it's wrong? Where's the rest of your case? Do you have any other reads at all? And why are you calling this auto when it's clearly not? | ||
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All HF has to do is say who he sent the present to as mafia, they confirm, and that's that. By your logic that would prove he is town. So if he is mafia, why wouldn't he say that? (And if you read the case closely it assumes HF is mafia all the way through, even if he does claim ^ see the portion saying GB was trying to find 2 mafia by asking ^ so right in the post it's admitting that claiming is not alignment indicative at all.) This is just based on so little it makes no sense that you think this is enough over firm evidence... Eh, I'm done. Someone bring me something new and solid, please. Otherwise, I'll just rest on the case I already built. | ||
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If HF is being set up for a mislynch by mafia and he's town, mafia can counterclaim. He clearly has an incentive as town not to reveal who he sent the present to. You need more points than that. You need an entire case. Not just one point that does not prove alignment one way or another. | ||
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On December 18 2014 14:45 sicklucker wrote: Your lieing again. They have every incentive to send a present. They expected ff to use it and hopefully die. If he dont die they simply just roleblock him? Its a pretty easy thing to understand. The fact the present was sent to ff should tell you something. I dont think many good towns are sending it to him. As for mafia hes a good target anyone who knows ff, knows hes super bored and wants out. You're right. Scum could do this. That's why it is not indicative of alignment. That is why sending a present does not prove that YOU are town. And regardless, town can send a present to scum without realizing it. HF has always said that he sent his present to someone Day 2. This is not a productive conversation. | ||
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Even though it's obvious that someone receiving a present Day 2 doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the people who died Night 2, you continue on this track. So, I will let you. You make so little sense I don't really need to point out the fallacies in your argument. I hope that you eventually see them if you're town. If you're mafia...please continue spouting nonsense. It'll make it easier to lynch you later. Good night. Work tomorrow. | ||
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- Continually calling for mass claiming in an open set-up where scum has 2-3KSs.Or calling for certain individuals to claim (carolers, those who were roleblocked, vet) - Attempting to take credit for a lynch when he did not catch the lie, and furthermore did not vote for the player being lynched, when he clearly had enough time to do so. His defense that he was trying to see who would jump onto a third train was never followed through on...he is back on his old soapbox today. ^ There are no reasons that these are town behaviors. Plain and simple. You can ignore everything else and write it off as a pisspoor town player, but there are no reasons for a town player to do these two things. HF may well be scum, I don't know. But I haven't seen him do scummy things, and I have seen GB do a multitude. Again, if you want to base your lynch decisions on WIFOM, presents, and set-up speculation...be my guest. Don't be surprised if it comes back to bite you in the arse though. | ||
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Yay lynch the lurkers. yet ill still try to lynch someone im more certain of first. how is that scummy so long as end game im willing to adjust to try to lynch the most likely scum who has a possibility of being lynched? Why dont you guys try to lynch me for the same thing youre badgering xata about? And everyone is conveniently ignoring xatas point that vivax first argues scum acting like obvious scum then flips and says they never would. i dont even -_- | ||
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Its not quite a lurker push but its closeish. Ill take a closer look when i have a comp and can really see what youre digging into. on the surface however i wouldnt quite call it open and shut so youll have to let me investigate on my own a bit before id push templar over gb. also interested in vivas case/reasons. | ||
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for instance, vivax bugs me because he comes in complaining about people discussing WIFOM presents, but at the same time bases a good portion of his reads off of WIFOM night kills. i'm not certain if he just doesn't realize that both are equal amounts of scum would/wouldn't do this because it's too stupid/we'd think it's too stupid or not, but the double-standard makes me twitch. then there's his reads, which he seems more than willing to ditch for the first convenient case that comes along, no matter how weak... which makes me wonder why he'll sheep GB's case on HF and HF's case on Templar but not trfel's case on KSC or my case on GB. Since he has yet to explain his own reasoning for going with others' cases...that seems very suspicious to me. "it sounded good" or "it convinced me" from him, when he's making his own reads, is just squirrely lian obviously is a big question mark. His reasoning is absolutely non-existent, and he refuses to give any. I also don't trust anyone who seems to be planning out his lynches in advance. even some of the most stubborn here will change a vote as the situation changes, but not him so no, I don't agree with this "do the right thing" or "you must vote so-and-so" bs. makes me want to kick y'all | ||
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On December 19 2014 08:12 LightningStrike wrote: I was always againist your lynch HF I was wantign a GB since the case from Rsoultin after Ritoky got lynched. I riding and dieing with Rsoultin now. LS, I appreciate the vote of confidence, but assuming that you're town, the only one (barring being a caroler or something) that you can know is 100% town is you. So please, never follow me blindly. That's why I make cases. I can be wrong. If you agree with it, that's fine. More the merrier. I also will not necessarily stay on GB forever if it means sacrificing a player who I think is town. I'm not quite that stubborn, and I don't think that Templar is the worst lynch we could make. I still need to fact check HFs case, though, and see what else I can find...if I agree with it or not. And yes, GB. You probably should read my case against you. -shrugs- That's just common sense. | ||
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Obviously lynching someone I think is town would be the worst lynch. Why do you ask questions with obvious answers? Also, has anyone notice that Tube hasn't posted at all in 2 days? I don't know if it was being rattled that his conspiracy theory wasn't completely right or what, but...he posted once after the flip and hasn't since. | ||
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If you think my case isn't good, tell me why. You still haven't done so. | ||
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I've been going over HFs case on Templar...have you had a chance to look at it yet? | ||
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I've been looking at HFs case, too. There are some issues with it, unfortunately. I'm not saying it's a shit case, cause it's not, but it's certainly not open and shut. - RNG reads more like a joke/trolling...so not sure of the significance here, unless it's that he happened to pick KSC from it - while I agree that his Santa posts were mostly summary and repeat analysis, there still was some analysis, which HF is downplaying...the remark on the list, for instance, specifically referenced froggy's placement; it wasn't just a list - the point on slam and bunnies both spewing posts...slam doesn't seem to be a big content poster anyway. ninjabunnies I haven't really played with, but if she doesn't play like slam, then comparing the two isn't necessary and isn't really a double-standard - i'm also not really seeing the issue with Templar agreeing with the case against HF except HF doesn't like it...since the post he agreed with was speaking specifically to how HF came to read bunnies, not the fact that he scumread her --------- That said, though I'm finding HFs actual analysis a little dodgy, there's not a ton of original content in Templar's filter apart from the odd comment/question here or there. Some of the questions do seem to be in the interest of exposing logic pitfalls and progressing the thread...but that's not hard to fake. As for the meta...that's borderline, too. Having reads on everyone and posting thoughts on every player is actually the same thing. The biggest difference is between lurking and posting a lot...though really I'm not sure why Templar is bringing up his meta at all if it's not solidly indicative of anything. That alone is scummy. Tube is also a very easy scumread to latch onto, especially with the "scum slip" that had the whole thread jumping down his throat. An easy mislynch if he's town. So I can see the argument there. And if Templar, Rit and KSC (ironically the only bolded ones in his first lynch) are all scum, and HF isn't scum, it's got to be better for mafia to have a run-off between two towns over one between a scum and a town or two scums. Apart from that, I don't see much reason to pressure Tube during that vote. Better to save it for later. All-in-all...Templar could be scum, but I wouldn't call him my top scumread. | ||
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On December 19 2014 11:18 sicklucker wrote: Guys can you just sheep me here Im confident I have this figured out. When you realize HF is mafia and gb is town for the information hes brought against him this game is actually winnable. If you guys keep running around like chickens with no heads this game becomes unwinnable. Rputin I ignore your case because I know gb is town. I can only really prove this when hf flips mafia. Can you explain why mine, froggys, and gb's case doesint tell you hf is mafia? You keep using the same excuse "its present related". But the facts are mafia wont claim a present unless they are sure it cant be counter claimed. This means hf is 100% lieing about his already sketchy claim. Like how more obvious can this get? Im running out of posts and your completely ignoring the facts. If your town you need to realize the truth because when hf flips mafia were going to have to lynch you as of now and that might lose us this game. If I had a present I wouldn't counter-claim, because I'd want to use what was in it without getting shot or RBd. If I had a present I wouldn't really be interested in drawing attention to myself in relation to presents at all. Assuming mafia doesn't have all of them, it's not the worst way to find out where the presents are at and remove that possible threat. So no, I don't agree with your point. Sorry. And you threatening to lynch me after HF (who I believe is town anyway, or at least more likely to be town than a few in this thread) isn't going to sway me. I'm not acting scummy and I'm not afraid of being lynched. -shrugs- I'm also not much of a sheep. As soon as someone starts throwing around the 100% mafia stuff I tend to tune out because the only possible way to know that for sure is if you're santa and have a blue check or you're scum, in which case I'd be dumb to listen to you anyway. Also, apologies for the snark. I wrote that before seeing your response. The "knowing GB is town" thing is a BS answer though. How can you possibly know that, SL? You do realize you've been more or less parroting him all game? | ||
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On December 19 2014 11:17 Oatsmaster wrote: hf 2bad2bescum lian scum vivax scum gb not scum xata scum. about this for now yeah. Do you mind explaining your reads some? I can guess but I'd rather you just tell me what you're thinking. | ||
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On December 19 2014 16:31 sicklucker wrote: No one would counter claim the present untill after they use it , but the point is they would counter claim it eventually so thats bs. And no one has used one . vt's would not pass a present on thats what hf is claiming . Your not as good as you think you are I sheeped in my first games. To me I feel like you just want to be right rather then seeing the truth. The fact is my case against hf is better then your case against gb. I can explain why hf is mafia in like 1 line. Your long post is all circumstantial and gb can play pretty bad as town. Im 99% sure hf is scum. How sure are you on gb? Dude, we've got a dead guy who had a present and one that may or may not have been opened, and possibly a third floating somewhere. I just don't see it as something that makes people scum. Unless you think FF is scum, which opens a whole new can of worms. Possible, but that is what you're basing your analysis on right now. Probably about 85% on GB. I don't agree with your 99% though. You're still doing this they would/wouldn't do this because it's too risky/people would think it's too risky stuff. | ||
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On December 18 2014 22:19 Holyflare wrote: The_Templar Now that we know kelsier flipped mafia, adding to this case are things like his initial rng located here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?page=14#270 Now, people that post rng post it in order to stick with it either in a joking way and get discussion going or in a serious manner and stick to it like glue because they are retarded (bh). Templar, after rnging it in the most suspicious way possible (not doing the division mechanics in any pre-determined way) picks out kelsier. Now, in my opinion kelsier had done crazy suspicious things like calling people town based on no meta to counter the read and also calling bats town after bats read has been proven false (as I pointed out and trfel copied for his ultimate case to lynch mafia), yet, as I was pushing ninjabunnies at the time over that read templar returned with the fluffiest post of all time: He never mentions ANY actual in game content about ANYONE other than they are lurkers/using posts badly: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?page=18#351 After literally a wealth of information and posts on the 3 subjects, kelsier/bunnies and froggy he instead decides to say absolutely nothing about any of them. Kelsier isn't mentioned for content at all, froggy is mentioned for being a hypocrite with no opinion on the matter and then he unvotes kelsier to sheep onto the ninjabunnies wagon not because she was contradictory, had her top scum read or w/e in her scum list bla bla. Only because she had spent some posts talking about clothes and used 12 of 80 posts on this. You could argue this was just at the start of the posting spree on bunnies but he returned later and had an equally useless post about his top scum read: he STILL mentions none of the arguments but only scum reads her based on the fact she wasted some posts and posted a list????? Comment: Clearly not. His reads are SO surface level it's actually ridiculous. He's also busy pointing out people that are red claiming (is alakaslam a snowman? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?page=20#400 etc) His posts are specifically intended to look like contribution, by way of length, but are instead just multiple waves of nonsense that doesn't make anyone scum and he's refused to even take part in the discussions. + Show Spoiler + Koshi Half the Sky Oatsmaster kitaman27 Damdred rsoultin froggynoddy kushm4sta sicklucker Alakaslam Vivax ObiWanShinobi The_Templar Xatalos LightningStrike liancourt batsnacks ritoky Fecalfeast Holyflare GlowingBear LoneMeow Trfel Tubesock KelsierSC his list is also pretty weird. Comment: Agreed. It's also an odd coincidence, who he chooses to read as town. He's like totally ignored everyone that is posting about the bunnies lynch apart from vivax (mainly me) yet posting similar things about her and has this weird list that comes out of nowhere. I'm also not ignoring the fact that he called bunnies scum for having a list of reads but then made this list, Comment: He wasn't calling her scum for just having a list. See above. I'm also not going to ignore the fact that he calls bunnies mafia for wasting posts but doesn't even mention slams spamming slew of posts as indicative at all. Comment: Could be a double-standard, but aren't you the same one who said you don't even bother trying to read Slam? I can't understand him half the time. Double standards are crazy and scummy. He's ignored everything that made kelsier scummy in this respect too and actually bolded him based on...? Nobody will ever know at this point because all he talked about in regards to kelsier is that he liked to write about starcraft. The rest of his day 1 was a LOT of afking and then one of those "catch up with absolutely everything in the game" posts, yet this catch up specifically said absolutely nothing and made no conclusions whatsoever it was comment on post by post. Comment: Agreed. Very little original content throughout his filter. He maintained that ninjabunnies WAS scummy and being pushed for good reasons yet, later in the game said I fell off halfway through day 1 and had no reason to be on bunnies: Comment: Quote? I didn't see this in his filter. He then AGREED with gb's case which stated that I had no proper reason to be on ninjabunnies because the points didn't make her mafia and that he DISAGREED with the other half of this case because he didn't know where I said any of the stuff gb was mentioning (which later turns out gb pulled out of his arse). He is literally saying he agrees with gb's case that I didn't have very good reasons to be on bunnies after he was also on bunnies (with like 0 reasons???) Comment: The actual wording says you were pointing out things that weren't "mafaish" and not trying to find alignments. This is how you made your read, not whether or not your conclusion was justified. Yet then when it starts to pick up some more, he starts saying he agrees with everything GB is saying on me. (I don't have to reiterate that following this case is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE Comment: The case was bad, yes, but not alignment indicative, unless you're saying everyone who agreed with GB was probably mafia. if you had actually read it and fact checked it because I have destroyed this case multiple times and GB HAS STILL NOT SAID ANYTHING ABOUT MY DEFENCE 3 DAYS LATER -.- -.- -.- -.- -.-). It's also quite odd that if he sees that half the case is what he's guilty of and the other half doesn't make any sense and he was previously scum reading gb the night before that he'd just go full on sheep mode and say "great case". He also has contradictory self meta whenever people call him out on it: Here he says he would be crazy lurking normally as mafia and putting out reads. Yet, later, when pressure is building on him he changed it to: being really active, posting all the time, with long drawn out posts of justification. He seems to have multiple metas thought out for all the occasions! Comment: Using meta as a defense when his meta isn't consistent is scummy to me, I agree. The red portions mean the same thing, but the rest appears to be contradictory. There's also these random tidbits on throwing accusations on vivax: after saying absolutely nothing about him all game, sheeping his read on xatalos day 1 and vivax having the supposedly same reads as him because they both wanted to lynch me forever. It just looks like he's throwing suspicion everywhere he can. Then you can just read the above quoted previous case I made in regards to him not giving a shit about who is lynched ever and instead pressuring tubesock EVEN THOUGH HE SAID HE COULDN'T GET HIM LYNCHED. How futile is that? Where has this tube thing gone by the way? Oh yeh, sheeping dat thread sentiment onto a town lynch again even though there's literally nothing he's said about me, spread suspicion onto vivax for after my flip and gb's case has been dissolved. There's no reason to be on me other than to blend and obtain another mislynch. (They only need 2 to win btw) The Meta - ignore this section if you're a twat face + Show Spoiler [The_Templar] + Newbie Mini Mafia LVI Mafia Goon Lynched Day 4 Twitterverse Mini Mafia Mafia Twitterati Endgamed Day 3 Mission Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Killed Night 1 There is pretty little to go on in terms of meta in the database for templar, yet, just looking at the differences between the games, the amount of effort going into his mafia game is far more than here. Yet, so is his town game. This is congruent with what he is saying part way through the game at least. However, there's a difference in his posting styles. As town you see posts like these ones on page 4: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/465384-mission-mini-mafia?user=The_Templar&page=4 he seems like he's chasing up his reads, finding inconsistencies in people's posting and making sure people know it. It's not the matter of appearing to have a read on everyone, it looks like he's trying to get people to notice things that make people mafia. Whereas in his mafia game here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/450895-newbie-mini-mafia-lvi?user=The_Templar&page=4 You see things where he is posting reads like "i agree with this", "your posts are pretty null" and yes, you can say he has long posts as mafia too for instance here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/450895-newbie-mini-mafia-lvi?page=20#382 that look the same but when you read the actual content he isn't finding the inconsistencies within the people's posts he's instead going very surface level and just saying that he disagrees with things and that this is how they'd act in video mafia etc etc. There's no real game logic involved. Now when you tie his meta together with this game you can see the same things. I stated earlier that all his reads were "surface level", they weren't congruent with his original thoughts. Comment: I don't entirely agree that he's not finding any inconsistencies or just saying he agrees/disagrees, but I find the meta inconclusive anyway.He doesn't read things properly or even bother to CHECK whether there are inconsistencies at all. You can literally see this where he disagrees with half of gb's case on me (and agrees with something that he is far more guilty of) but never follows up to see whether there was an inconsistency with what gb was saying or not, especially as he scum read GB the last day and town read me. In fact other people were left to do this and he didn't give a shit and went after tube who is no longer anywhere in his reads at all. Comment: I've seen some continued light pressure, but nothing significant. ##vote the_templar more to come, eventually.... HF, don't get pissed at me for double-checking what you're saying. I think there's enough here to make Templar a possible lynch and he is leaning scum for me. But it concerns me when things are stated as fact that don't match up with the actual content. My biggest concern with Templar is how little of substance he's offered, and that he's making very little original content/reads. That issue with Tube at EoD2 was odd to me, too. It stood out as being outside the rest of the conversation going on in the thread. He pressured Tube, but didn't seem concerned if the rest of us heeded his pressure or not. When everyone is switching votes and settling on a lynch, this is particularly strange. | ||
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I did, however, want you to understand that I'd read your case, agree that he could easily be scum, while explaining why I'm not as sure of him. (tbh though, lynching Templar down the road regardless of GBs alignment is a definite possibility in my eyes. he's not playing well. i'm also concerned about oats who doesn't seem to be interested in contributing much this game. is that normal for him? he seemed more engaged in my other game with him) People commented on some of my actual analysis, too, and I agreed with some of their corrections. I.e. nothing necessarily being all that scummy about a rage!fitting demanding GB on Day 2, lol, but I still dislike people screaming at me to do things, especially for poor or unexplained reasons. | ||
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On December 19 2014 23:20 Vivax wrote: What I can criticize about HF's case is that it came at a time where people were already willing to vote Templar so it didn't exactly add much novelty. You could call it a nail in the coffin but it also looks a bit like overkill, something a scum HF could have done just cause he said he would write a huge wall of text case previously, and not something we really needed. I didn't even read it lol, Templar is an easy gut-read at this point and before, based on my previous games with him. Sorry HF I don't think I will ever feel confident enough to call you town after my past experiences, there are these interactions with scum that suggest townie but I fully trust you'd have the means of planting them on purpose. I've seen this sentiment multiple times in the thread. I won't argue that it's not possible, especially since I've said before that it is. My main issue with it is it pretty much makes HF a policy lynch, doesn't it? Guilty until proven innocent (by death) because no one is confident enough in reading his scum play to say he's town. (Why not a friggin' vig kill then?) So...eh. Maybe when I've played more games with him I'll be on that train, too, dunnae. For right now I'd prefer going after the obvious (to me) scum. The more we reveal the scum team, the easier it will be to make a good decision regarding HF. That's how I figure it, anyway. With their two NKs...getting a lynch wrong will be a huge problem. That's my take on the whole mess. | ||
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feel free to modkill me anyway, though. I should have remembered. | ||
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On December 19 2014 23:39 GlowingBear wrote: Vivax 1) Saying a lack on push on a ridiculous present claim =\= having a read on the claim 2) Reevaluating reads is okay so, lol. Check timestamps. 3) I GAVE THE PRESENT TO RITOKY. HE HAD A PRESENT. There is a present with mafia. On other topic: I thought sicklucker said he gave the present to damdred before damdred flipped?? Hrm. I thought SL had said it before the flip, too? I know that he strongly intimated it. Cause I for sure got that impression when he first mentioned giving it to someone. Probably should filter-dive...meeeeeehh. Finding one specific post in that is gonna be a chore. | ||
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On December 12 2014 08:22 sicklucker wrote: Shit this is horrible I can confirm I sent dandred a present and thats probably why hes dead.. First time he mentioned sending it to Damdred was after the flip, yes. I mean, you could figure it out, actually, given he was only townreading you and Damdred strongly and thought you had a role, then goes and says he gave it to someone he knows (lol) is town, but has no role...but it does make SL look pretty bad lol if you think Damdred was NKd and not killed by exploding present. | ||
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But yeah, he's very squirrely on all these presents. I'm scum leaning on him, but I don't think today is a good day to push him, because hey uphill climb lol. He's done a good job of convincing people to generally ignore his nuttiness (myself included) so that when he is scum we don't look at him as closely as maybe we should. | ||
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Like I said, uphill climb xP So why are you so interested in people mass-claiming? Do you really think it'll narrow things down for town that much? Seems to me we're more likely to get counter-claims (real or false) or a ton of VT claims and still be playing the same old who is lying bit, while scum can shoot into the last few roles that may or may not be able to roleblock them. If you're arguing it's obvious who the scum would be...I refer you to your last post ^ | ||
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On December 20 2014 00:31 Holyflare wrote: Don't you think sl's present claim made him extremely towny? The present/joyful claim. Pretty sure he's just being kept alive to troll me. I waffle on him. It's a pretty simple thing to claim a present as mafia, give it to a town, then have them killed and say that you giving a present to town is what makes you town. So...no, I don't think that alone proves he's town. And the more people harp on it, the less convinced I get, because it seems people are trying to push an obvious fallacy. That and his hard defense of ritoky and GB seems like he's trying to push the idea that only town can give presents to town even more. Of course, ritoky was mafia, so now it doesn't matter as much...but do you get where I'm going with this? Just in general the whole presents analysis isn't very helpful, cause it's not actually alignment indicative. | ||
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On December 20 2014 00:34 GlowingBear wrote: War roles are mason, nigella and veteran If veteran claims and gets shot, lol @ mafia If mason claims... nothing happens, it just confirms a townie. If nigella claims we lose a protection/roleblock. I'd rather know who is town and narrow targets than having the power roles. Like, with these claims, I know who I can work with and it's less 3 people I should be worried about. A lot of vt claims is okay. The thing is that mafia is probably not counter claiming any of these three power roles so we are okay. And IF mafia counterclaims and gets the power role lynched, free mafia lynch next day. I wouldn't mind a lucky roleblock leading us to another scumbucket, personally xP Wouldn't bug me at all. I don't know. Scum probably doesn't need that many more mislynches, what with the 2 NKs. So playing 50/50 games is not to my taste. And given scum probably doesn't need many more mislynches, turning it into that could be beneficial to them, depending on how many are left. | ||
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Also, have you really seen him scumhunting like a mofo this game? That's also part of what makes SL, SL. Wild and crazy theories on everyone, not just focused on one person. Note that he commented on all of Trfel's reads except the one on himself not giving many reads, then suddenly gave a few...nah, I think there's reason to suspect him, even if I'm not at all sure. | ||
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On December 20 2014 00:44 rsoultin wrote: I wouldn't mind a lucky roleblock leading us to another scumbucket, personally xP Wouldn't bug me at all. I don't know. Scum probably doesn't need that many more mislynches, what with the 2 NKs. So playing 50/50 games is not to my taste. And given scum probably doesn't need many more mislynches, turning it into that could be beneficial to them, depending on how many are left. EBWOP: The mass-claiming also has a weakness in that scum not counter-claiming, then killing the roles that weren't CCd, removes more players that people were certain about and leaves only the question-marks. Do we really have so few question-marks this game to say that will help town win the game? | ||
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Why did you try to take credit for ritoky? There was a large time gap between when ritoky claimed to have received a notification, to which you said "okay", and bats catching him in the lie. Then you didn't vote on him anyway. You not jumping on board is whatevs...but trying to claim credit reads super scummy to me. | ||
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On December 17 2014 10:35 GlowingBear wrote: But well, my theory that scum could have hammered HF but didn't was proven right. If you're still scumreading me, remember that I was the one that started to ask questions about notification to ritoky. This is exactly what I was trying to achieve at that moment. That's why after his answer I asked anyone who was roleblocked day1 to claim. Also, as holyflare quoted Vivax, LoneMeow was shot by vigi. Proof one is that Obi said he was reading LM as mafia Proof two is that, as only 2 kills happened, Obi was shot AND roleblocked, which is TOO accurate night actions for mafia UNLESS they realise obi was the only one scumreading LM. And as they know they didn't shoot LM night one, it was easy to know who to roleblock and kill. Only you didn't. You asked for people to claim being roleblocked before ritoky answered, then all you said was "okay". I can find the quotes again, if you need them as proof, but now I know where I got my timing messed up...you planted it in my head. There is nothing whatsoever to indicate that you were trying to catch ritoky out in a lie. There is, however, evidence to indicate that you were trying to get people to claim that they were being roleblocked...which, if you knew as you claim to that they weren't receiving notifications, is role-hunting. And if you knew, as you claim, you should have called ritoky out, not simply said "okay". So either you're lying about your purpose behind asking for people to claim because you never really knew, or you had the opportunity, knowing that ritoky was lying, to call him on it and chose not to. | ||
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On December 20 2014 01:51 GlowingBear wrote: Follow my logic: Here are hosts who notifies people when they were roleblocked, independently if they have a power role or not. Roleblocker is unlikely to hold his skill; therefore, someone could have been roleblocked. I ask ritoky BEFORE ask people to claim being roleblocked so he doesn't get my plan Nobody claims being roleblocked = ritoky lied. I don't understand how do you associate receiving a notification of being roleblocked = having a power role. Oats, come on, you know it's a horrible mafia play to counterclaim a power role because it's a 1 for 1 trade. You know this. God... Dude, seriously? I associate people not receiving a notification of being roleblocked, but still knowing that they have been, with having a power role. This isn't rocket science. You didn't ask if they received notifications. You asked people from Day 1 and Day 2 to come forward if they had been roleblocked. No more, no less. | ||
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The point is, if you meant it to be a trap (i.e. knew that people didn't receive notifications) you should have been the one to call out ritoky, not bats. The point is, claiming that you were laying a trap when I first questioned you (though you've changed your story now) means you're either trying to give yourself credit after the fact so people townread you, or you knew all along and didn't call ritoky out on it. People either claiming or not claiming to be roleblocked isn't significant because people don't have to do what you ask them to. And in this case shouldn't. It just falls in line with the other myriad of times you've asked people to claim -_-. | ||
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On December 19 2014 19:36 marvellosity wrote: It doesn't Count GlowingBear (4): Holyflare (5): sicklucker, The_Templar (5): Holyflare, Fecalfeast, Oatsmaster, Vivax, Alakaslam Currently Holyflare is set to be lynched. 12h24m until deadline. Okay, we're about six hours out, so I guess it's time to ask were people stand. I'm more confident of GB as scum than Templar, but am willing to vote Templar if others don't agree with me. I've already explained why. I'd appreciate those on GB and Templar to say where they stand on the other two lynch options, why they like one scumread over another (if they have multiple) and whether or not they'd be willing to change their votes. It's probably time to consider consolidating. | ||
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Actually, those on HF, too. No reason to exclude anyone. | ||
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GB, I think you're lying to me and have been through most of the game, so it's really hard for me to take anything you say at face value. You also keep switching up the timing on things. I don't know if that's faulty memory or trying to obscure the order of events, but give me a reason to trust you, please. -_- I'd actually like that, believe it or not. I don't understand your RBing thing in the context of what actually happened, or your call not to vig shoot your top scumread simply because he could be town or the vet. Since, you know, technically any of us could be town or the vet. I know what you're telling me, but it doesn't check out. It doesn't make sense. Maybe you just don't make sense as a player, but lol...I can't help being suspicious of you >< | ||
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So can you tell me what you actually think please? | ||
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On December 20 2014 03:41 LightningStrike wrote: I got both GB and Templar scum after reading the case from HF before the case I was null leaning town on Templar but no I got both of them as scum. Fair enough. Do you have any cases of your own on people who haven't been brought up yet? Doesn't have to be polished. I just want to hear something from you that someone else hasn't already said. | ||
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Alright, I'll go with Templar cause I'm going out and not certain I'll be back for EoD. That said, I still think GB is more likely to flip scum -shrugs- Templar has some issues, but I could see him being just an apathetic lurker all too easily, unfortunately... ##unvote ##vote Templar | ||
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On December 20 2014 05:26 Fecalfeast wrote: If you don't think damdred died to a present, please outline the night kills in a way that makes sense. There were 5 night kills. We know there was 1 vig (OWS) We know there were 2 scum with extra KSs (KSC-Branch Manager and ritoky MassMurderer) We know that after these 2 died, mafia still had their 2 auto KPs. That accounts for the 5 night kills No one had to die to a present xP Sorry Tube, no, I don't know that's what happened, but there's hardly a reason for scum not to try to get shots off on the first night, so it's likely that the ones with extra KSs did make kills. | ||
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On December 20 2014 04:12 GlowingBear wrote: If we lynch holyflare and he flips town, we can trust his case on Templar as legit and kill scum. If we lynch holyflare and he flips mafia, I'm gonna masturbate to a photo of me. I can't see me working this game out without lynching holyflare Also, this just makes me want to lynch you more. Are people really that certain about Templar that with possibly only one mislynch left we'd auto kill him just because HF didn't turn out to be scum? Without discussion? Cause I sure am not that sure about Templar. Sounds more like a predetermined set of mislynches to me -_- That and I don't want the image of your junk in my brain. Knock it off. | ||
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On December 20 2014 05:43 Fecalfeast wrote: The OP says only claimed disgruntled workers can be shot. Lol, you're right, I keep forgetting that. | ||
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##unvote ##vote GB The kill HF cheering squad is not around. Makes me wonder why. Makes me uncomfortable lynching Templar. -shrugs- Call me paranoid if you wish. I am, lol. | ||
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On December 20 2014 06:01 Half the Sky wrote: Rasputin, the magic number is six. If I were queen of Liquidia, I'd get rid of both GB and Templar, but seriously can that wagon realistically get another five votes in the remaining two hours? Lol, realistically, I hope so. It either can or it can't. There are eight on Templar, so it doesn't threaten anyone's lynch preference for me to stick to my guns for awhile xP I only switched over because I didn't know how long I'd be out doing the Xmas shopping. My concern is the cheering squad has been quite vocal the other times when we were lynching scum instead of HF. Now they're not. As I said, I'm paranoid. The Templar case has some points, but nothing that I see that couldn't happen if he were town. -shrugs- Not gonna force y'all to join me. | ||
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On December 20 2014 06:29 sicklucker wrote: It does not mean im scum at all. Please explain? Im a strong believer that the kill present is still live now since ff received one. Because in my world he only recieves one if hes mafia or mafia knows the kill present is left. It implies you're scum because Damdred, a claimed VT, died. If not by the present than by mafia. -shrugs- You've pointed this out yourself. If you didn't notice, there is a built-in disclaimer in my comment that you were pretty transparent about it, even if you didn't reveal him by name. Shooting into a claimed VT for scum is way more likely if they know/believe he has one of the presents. | ||
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On December 20 2014 06:42 The_Templar wrote: So, when I flip town, which of you won't be voting HF? ^ This. Is what concerns me. Too easy. No chirping from the cheering squad (until, conveniently, I mentioned it) Auto-lynch on HF for bringing forth a case on Templar tomorrow...when really any townie can be wrong, but I can almost guarantee it'll happen anyway and be used as a force behind the push. It doesn't concern anyone, this being too easy, lynching Templar? It doesn't concern anyone that the case against Templar is more or less that he hasn't been participating much, with a couple minor points that aren't alignment-indicative sprinkled in for good measure? It concerns me. | ||
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I'm apparently not making myself clear. LS, HTS, and Xata are here...FF would have made 5. | ||
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No one is on GB but me. Templar 7, HF 6, and I'm the odd man out. Unless you think Templar is town...don't see what your deal is. | ||
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If we can get Templar/SL on board, that should be all we need. | ||
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##unvote ##vote Tube | ||
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On December 20 2014 07:26 sicklucker wrote: no ty Why not? | ||
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Okay, guys, Templar is off HF, that means we have the votes! Xata, HTS, we're good to go. Hopefully LS when he gets back! Shennanies time! | ||
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On December 20 2014 07:33 sicklucker wrote: rsoultin might just be straight up mafia ring leader at this point lol. Prove your not by going on oats. Lol, even if I were the ultimate!newbie!scumleader! of doom, I would not bow to your demands xP | ||
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4 Templar 6 Tube Y'all can doublecheck if you need to | ||
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But since I'm scumreading GB and leaning scum on SL, anyone they want so desperately I'm reluctant to move to, to be frank. | ||
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Plus almost all of my townreads are involved in it. ^^ So...if I'm wrong, Tube, sorry, bud. But I think this was the way to go. | ||
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yolo | ||
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sorry tube, gg bud | ||
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On December 20 2014 08:37 sicklucker wrote: NO SHIT SHEEP ME PUTIN IS LOSING US THIS GAME Yo, we should be both on the same team, bro. Make sense and I'll sheep you. | ||
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I was wrong. It was always a possibility. I could be wrong about you, too. Still don't think so, but that is also a possibility. And whether I was wrong or not has nothing to do with the amount of sense that SL makes -_- | ||
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On December 20 2014 09:06 Fecalfeast wrote: Not enough, could be dried up minestrone soup lololol FF, I like you you may be the godfather of doom shennanie king hoarding the presents and all, but I like you anyway | ||
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Or RBr/medic lady gets lucky. So yeah. 5 town already lost. | ||
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8:4 - 2 NKs 8:3 - scumlynch 5:3 - 2 NKs 5:2 - scumlynch 3:2 - 2 NKs 3:1 - scumlynch 2:1 - 1 NK yolo?? but yeah...can't afford another mislynch >< | ||
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On December 20 2014 10:28 GlowingBear wrote: HF, you said you were a role night2. When questioned day3, you said you're actually vt and that you claimed a role because you were wanting to be shot by mafia because you would be the center of discussion and it was detrimental to town. Now you voted on someone else for survivability. Do you get how bad this is? ^ In 100% agreement with this, actually. | ||
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On December 20 2014 10:36 GlowingBear wrote: HAHAHAHA SO YOU'RE SAYING HIS INTENTION DOESN'T MATTER, WHAT MATTERS IS IF HIS VOTE WAS VALID OR NOT? ZEUS PLEASE THROW A THUNDER IN MY FACE SO I CAN GO TO VALHALLA (Mythology unrelated) Well, what do you expect him to say, GB? That you caught him, oops, he's mafia? lol So no, in the long-run it doesn't really matter. He's already said he'll try to avoid a lynch at all costs. Your point that this seems inherently contradictory is what matters. His timing for entering the thread tonight with excuse #whatever also matters. What he says is really not important. Now stop yelling at me YOU BIG GLOWING BLUBBER URSINE! | ||
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Is there some sort of special significance to being a wagon multiple days? | ||
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also, btw, if what you just called me is what they've got in the urban dictionary, poor form, dude. uncalled for. | ||
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On December 20 2014 11:25 liancourt wrote: Oh look scumslip lynch me tomorrow unstead of hf Can you stop being pissy and just explain why you said that? -_- | ||
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Okay, lian. HF I was going back through your filter, and some of what you said earlier made sense...the latter bits, less, but eh. HF somehow manages to come in right after flip/during flip each day. He has an excuse constantly. For being such an amazing player, the most "presence" I've been getting from him is YOU IDIOTS WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO LYNCH ME AGAIN?! NKs and whatnot aside...those things are weird. So okay. Sides lol, this time if we're wrong I can blame you post-game. And call you menstrual fluid or whatever the hell it was you meant by that word xPGB seems less nutso today, so maybe I've just had tunnel vision, I don't know | ||
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But hey, there's no scenario where that was just a town fuck-up of course, three of us have to be scum, no other possibility. Maybe I'm just the most stupid person in this game, but if that's the case, it'll benefit y'all for me to shut up, so that's what I'm doing. Feel free to ask if you want something from me. I don't actually believe most of the scum were in that wagon, but I'm just stupid, and you don't want to hear it, and hell I may be wrong anyway so...whatevs. | ||
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On December 19 2014 11:17 Oatsmaster wrote: hf 2bad2bescum lian scum vivax scum gb not scum xata scum. about this for now yeah. lol, how does that line up with vivax's list? xata? you've given nothing of substance all game. just pointed out SL and GB's WIFOM posts...which were obviously WIFOM to everyone but them. step it up, dude. you can be worthwhile to town. I've seen it | ||
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doesn't change the I'm down for lynching oats statement that preceded it xP | ||
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It is more likely that Nigella saved/RBd Xatalos than we had two interactions last night... | ||
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On December 21 2014 08:37 GlowingBear wrote: There is no possible world where nigella saves Xatalos Are you out of your mind? A block = save as well, so there is a possible world if nigella thought that Xatalos was scum, particularly since nigella didn't know that FF had a KS. I am not out of my mind, thank you. Nigella is essentially acting as an RBer right now. | ||
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On December 04 2014 19:32 Palmar wrote: Nigella Lawson ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qo3YAqp.jpg) One of the best things about Christmas is the amazing food and the cozy atmosphere. Nigella is an expert at making delicious things. Nothing can break your spirit on a full stomach. In fact, the food is so good that once you've settled in you're not leaving for the night. Every night you can invite a player to share Christmas dinner with you. The player will be protected from harm during the night, but cannot take any action. Don't talk to me like I'm an idiot, please, GB. Clearly, clearly, Nigella acts as both a doctor and a roleblocker. I'm not high, thank you. | ||
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And Nigella, knowing that, could have chosen to protect FF. The only scum FF can potentially be is the Godfather. Although...him being the godfather can also explain the night actions nice and neat, and claiming to have shot at Xatalos is very believable given, as you said, several are scumreading him. | ||
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On December 21 2014 08:46 GlowingBear wrote: You said "saved". You know what "saved" implies. We are taking about intentions, not mechanics You can talk about what you want to talk about, GB. I'm trying to consider the possibilities to narrow down the scum, rather than following pre-conceived notions and letting this inform my interpretation of everything. People in this game have a nasty habit of reading into the night kills too much and shaping them to meet their own expectations. | ||
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I'll let you determine which is more statistically likely. | ||
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On December 21 2014 08:56 sicklucker wrote: The rb is more likely its not like they didnt know you had it?. I dont think are medic saves xata ever. Unless are medics one of the people im targeting or you got a save on one of them. Also im probably the save The night kills were super weird because mafia actually targeted confirmed towns. They did this because they didnt think there was a medic last night. Or me and xata were making so much sense. The medic is literally one of 2 or 3 people if slams vt claim is fake. So if your save is useful (someone im targeting) you should totally claim. The medic is one of lian or rstuin, with the only other claim id believe being slam. Im saying this because a fake medic claim is imminent and mafia knows its one of these 3 anyway. Dude...no. Just plain no. You can't just dismiss the possibilities...and you are probably not going to be night killed while all these theories keep on flying out with so little logical basis. I know I'd let you run amuck forever if I were scum, even if you were trying to cast suspicion on me, just because people wouldn't listen to you. And stop speculating on who the medic is. It is up to the medic to decide to out themselves, if they were even involved. I don't even know where you're coming up with these names from. | ||
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Or jailkeeper, as I guess the proper term is lol. | ||
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Unless no one comes forward to help explain the night actions, there's no point even considering it. Back to just evaluating people's play. | ||
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On December 15 2014 07:35 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Is there any chance we ever move past the Hf being scum line of thinking? Last post by OWS. He probably tried to shoot HF, especially given the rest of us were saying no, not until he flips. Anyone else think that's highly likely? | ||
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Claiming the KS and a shot at Xatalos are the easiest lies for scum, given scum has KSs anyway and Xata was the one in everyone's crosshairs after yesterday. | ||
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On December 21 2014 09:15 Fecalfeast wrote: LoneMeow the Carol Singer is dead dead to mafia kp kushm4sta the Scrooge is dead dead to marley Damdred the Joyful Child is dead dead to present Koshi the Disgruntled Retail Worker is dead dead to mafia kp Kitaman27 the Disgruntled Retail Worker is dead dead to mafia kp mafia kp includes mass murderer which checks out but basically confirms damdred was killed by a present. Nope. Nope. And nope. It was clarified that the Branch Manager can in fact shoot at unclaimed Disgruntled Retail Workers. There is still a possibility of Marley, made a much stronger possibility now that we've confirmed for certain there was a Ghost. They also definitely had the MM. So nope. There is nothing that guarantees Damdred was killed by a present. >< Also, what does that have to do with whether or not OWS took a shot at HF night 2? | ||
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There is nothing auto about a game that still has 12 players, and at least 2 scum. Vivax was throwing a fit and basing his reads off said fit. It would be foolish to just kill the three on the Tubesock wagon, disregarding all other information, simply because LS claimed and ppl think I'm an idiot town. Probably one scum was on there, but I highly doubt the entire team was. That sort of reasoning is just ridiculous. Unless you think all the other possible wagons were scum, that is ridiculous. You have to base your lynch decisions off more than that. Or don't. Then I can call all of you guys donkeys, too, when it most likely goes south because you're not even considering other possibilities. | ||
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I'd lynch Templar right now, too. He was strangely particular about who he'd vote for to save himself. Not alignment indicative, but his play has been underwhelming throughout the game. HF is a consideration, also. It would really inform what are now two wagons on him. I'm sidelining GB for awhile to watch how he decides to continue to play, but he's not townlisted for me yet, that's for sure. I'm also suspicious of FF, given how haphazard he was playing yesterday. Xata I'm not sure of. You guys keep bringing up that his reasons for voting people are crap, but I didn't find them particularly bad, myself. | ||
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On December 21 2014 09:38 Fecalfeast wrote: Okay so tell me if my interpretation is wrong Oats is scum because he has been inactive Templar is scum because his play has been underwhelming HF isn't scum for any reason but killing him would explain why other people read him scum GB is null(leanscum?) but you don't want to lynch because he may try harder I am haphazard by nature, no comment Xata thrown in for no reason since you null read him Do you have any full-on scum reads or is everyone a question mark to you? Lol Oats is more than just inactive. Look at how he chooses to participate. He randomly pipes in with no, that's WIFOM, generally to GB or SL. He gives scum lists when prompted, but never the reasons for them. And I know I at least have asked. I don't even know what that was with his interaction between him, GB and Vivax last night. I've seen Oats play. There's a difference between being a minimalist and giving no substance at all. Templar I feel is a policy lynch, but I also have my suspicions as to why he would change onto Tube but not GB, and while you could say that Tube was a scumread for him...given how little he pushed Tube and how he seemed to have no other scumreads, he's sufficiently suspicious for me to consider lynching him. HF...I could see as scum. He has survived 3 wagons now, though I know I've played a large role in that. I can see him as scum because he's spent most of the thread defending himself, and the vets keep saying he's an amazing town player...but I'm not seeing anything particularly amazing coming from him. He chose to make a case against Templar, and not only is Templar almost a policy lynch, but the analysis behind HF's case had a lot of holes. Maybe y'all's definition of an amazing town player is different than mine, but he's been less than impressive this game. I also have a low tolerance for excuse after excuse. Add onto that the possibility to better understand the voting from the last 3 days...and he's not a bad choice for lynch. I'd call him null leaning scum for me. I still think GB is scum. Three reasons I won't push him: 1)He's probably not going to get the votes today anyway. 2)I've seen some redeeming posts from him and am trying to keep an open mind. 3)What happens today might help clarify his previous behavior. It is convenient that you are haphazard by nature. I threw in Xata because I fully expect people to ask me about him, since there is a lot of thread sentiment to lynch him right now. Sorry that I wasn't as specific as you wanted. | ||
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On December 21 2014 09:47 GlowingBear wrote: Aaaaaaand I'm drunk. Alright, listen. We've discuss a lot about HF and we couldn't get him lynched easily. We almost said everything that has to be said about him. I don't think we should waste more breath about him TODAY. We have to catch the other scum. By the way, is there someone firmly believing that HF is town? This is important so please answer me. Now, I believe we should follow Vivax reads because (1) I agreed with him and (2) we now know he is confirmed town. Considering this, I believe we should lynch Xatalos Why Xatalos instead of oats? Because he wasn't firmly mafia read by Vivax, because he was town read by obi, and because HF, one possible scum, also list him as mafia. I'm aware HF also lists Xatalos, but there are these two that didn't cite/townreads oats. I don't want to risk the game on him yet. I don't believe nigella would protect FF because he could be godfather and I don't believe nigella would block Xatalos because he wasn't actually the top scumread. But I really think nigella would try to roleblock a possible mafia because top town was Vivax at that moment. I also want you to remember that ff is only SOFT CONFIRMED, because Santa didn't explicitly said he had a green check. Nigella, don't out anymore. You'll be important night5, specially if we lynch scum and if you roleblock one mafia. Like, consider this: if there is only 3 scum left and we lynch one now, you'll try to roleblock a possible mafia and if only one kp goes through the night, you have a confirmed mafia. So, lynch Xatalos. What about Templar? You mentioned Oats and Xata but not Templar. | ||
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On December 21 2014 10:01 GlowingBear wrote: I can easily build a meta case on him, would you wait? Because I'm kinda going to sleep Yup. There's plenty of time. Sleep well xP | ||
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When she does come in she seems to be genuinely trying to figure out the game. Why HTS, SL? | ||
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On December 21 2014 11:39 sicklucker wrote: Dude like you were in both games. If you dont notice the difference already im wasting posts. Dude, even if I was, you'll need to explain it to others. That I don't notice the difference already means it's probably not as obvious as you think it is. Just please explain yourself. That was the purpose of my post to begin with: to encourage you to explain your read. There's no need to always be this defensive. | ||
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On December 21 2014 11:56 sicklucker wrote: Like shes already voted without saying anything. How is this not mafia based on her last game play? Even me and hf put aside are differences and both agree shes mafia. Like think about that for a second Okay, SL. I read some of your earlier stuff on HTS. You brought up her filter, saying it's shorter this game than it was in our other game. Student Mafia, after 6 full days, she had 12 pages. Carolers, we're just starting the 5th day. She has 12. That is invalid. You say she hasn't talked about Templar. She has. She's been scumreading him for days. She didn't talk about him today before she voted, but it is definitely not an unexplained change in her reads, and he was also on her 3-person lynch list that she stated today. That point is also invalid. Do you have others? Also...you keep assuming that people are going to automatically do what you tell them to. Just because you told Nigella to protect OWS, and she didn't, does not mean there is no Nigella. I don't understand how you fail to see this. | ||
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Please give us your reads. I don't remember you having any but Tube, which is one of the reasons I said that wasn't alignment indicative. | ||
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On December 21 2014 12:15 rsoultin wrote: Okay, SL. I read some of your earlier stuff on HTS. You brought up her filter, saying it's shorter this game than it was in our other game. Student Mafia, after 6 full days, she had 12 pages. Carolers, we're just starting the 5th day. She has 12. That is invalid. You say she hasn't talked about Templar. She has. She's been scumreading him for days. She didn't talk about him today before she voted, but it is definitely not an unexplained change in her reads, and he was also on her 3-person lynch list that she stated today. That point is also invalid. Do you have others? Also...you keep assuming that people are going to automatically do what you tell them to. Just because you told Nigella to protect OWS, and she didn't, does not mean there is no Nigella. I don't understand how you fail to see this. EBWOP: The bolded should read 9. | ||
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I'm playing a hunch, here. Could you please give me your reads on Xata, Oats and GB? Much appreciated ^^ | ||
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On December 21 2014 14:08 sicklucker wrote: What about how she town read tube then voted for him out of nowhere? Eh, that was my fault. I'm taking full responsibility for the shenanigans yesterday, particularly in regard to hts, xata and ls, who were willing to switch with me wherever, as opposed to FF and Templar who were more selective. Not saying the first three shouldn't be looked at, but judging them solely on the shenanigans...that was my fault. Make that four days and you'd be more accurate. The point is she's playing, and there's not a significant enough difference in her filter length for that alone to be a good enough reason to lynch her. She and I are both pretty damn new, and I know that the sheer number of people here is a little intimidating (not to mention confusing) to me. Does your meta case include anything that isn't just filter length? I don't see where she townread Tube. Last two posts that mentioned him were her giving him the benefit of the doubt and the comment that she wasn't sure if his disappearance was significant or he was just new. That reads null to me. | ||
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On December 21 2014 14:19 sicklucker wrote: rsoultin why cant you just agree with me for once your always pushing your own agenda. You dont even have to vote her you just gotta say "ya ill vote her in the next 3 votes" and ill be happy. The order doesint really matter. Your not seeing the obvious scum that followed your horrible lynch yesterday is what worry me. You said you would take a step back can you please follow up on that. Mafias taking you to final 3 at this point. I'm not pushing my own agenda, SL -_- If you're asking me to scumread one of my townreads, of course I'm going to ask you why. I want to know what I'm missing. I know that it seems like I just argue with you, but I can't get on board for most of the things you talk about. Set-up speculation, presents, night kills...those things aren't evidence for me. Number of posts isn't evidence for me. Facts that aren't facts aren't evidence for me. I don't know how to explain this properly. I'm considering Xata as possible scum right now, but still on the fence. I do think Templar is scum. I am not so stubborn that I'm going to refuse to vote HTS no matter what happens. All I can tell you is that right now, she is not someone I would vote for. I do not see the "obvious" that you do. So if you could help me see it without getting upset, that would be helpful. I will never, as town, say that I will absolutely refuse to vote any particular player for the rest of the game, unless there's a very good reason for me to say so (i.e. they're acting super town and also have a green check from a confirmed seer). | ||
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Could you please give me reads on Oats, Slam and GB? @ GB Same, only Oats, Slam and Xata? The same way Slam gave them is fine, really. Doesn't have to be fancy at all. Also, I know the following isn't like a major shocker or anything given the fit and the tunnel vision this dude has, but he can't even be assed to make a post in the thread at all? Not even just a, you guys stupid; vote HF? On December 21 2014 16:55 liancourt wrote: ##vote hf I saw him do this yesterday, but held off just in case he planned on making a follow-up post in here. | ||
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On December 21 2014 22:58 Xatalos wrote: Oh, it might even be LYLO right now? Then I think we definitely shouldn't lynch for "information" or something equally stupid. Let's just lynch the player with the highest chance of flipping scum. Probably Templar... But luckily there's still quite a bit of time left to make that decision. We've got 12 players still. If it's LYLO that's a shit ton of scum in the wings. Though I will say it doesn't look like anyone's lynching for "information" but lian. What do you think of FF? I'm a fan of the most simple explanation theory, which means either you were protected/RBd and are actually scum...or he is scum and was RBd last night, and is trying to throw the blame on someone else. If he's town, there is no reason for him to lie about who he took a shot at. | ||
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On December 15 2014 07:58 Trfel wrote: Ok, a few thoughts at the end of the night. I'm not going to go super deep into this, since the nightkills do provide information that can be useful, but here's my thinking. I'm also not going to call someone super scummy or clean right before a bunch of new information comes out, for obvious reasons. Vivax Vivax seems... strange. I'm not really sure what to make of it. The first thing to note is, he has been making a lot of reads. From looking at his filter, here's what I found. + Show Spoiler [Vivax's Reads] + suspicious of 27ninjabunnies suspicious of ritoky suspicious of Tubesock suspicious of KelsierSC suspicious of Xatalos suspicious of rsoultin no longer suspicious of Xatalos suspicious of batsnacks less suspicious of batsnacks suspicious of Fecalfeast suspicious of Trfel suspicious of GlowingBear suspicious of The_Templar suspicious of Oatsmaster suspicious of Holyflare suspicious of Xatalos I think that this is just a playstyle, and not a sign of being mafia. It's not good or bad. Also, his reads are all well-explained and what he is doing makes sense to me. Really, I don't see any signs of him being scum here. Except, his play leading up to the day 2 lynch deadline has felt a bit off to me. On page 120, GlowingBear posts Part 2 of his case on Holyflare. The full case summary is posted on page 121. On page 122, I post a case on KelsierSC. Vivax posts a few pages after this, but doesn't respond to either case. Then he mentions the Holyflare case on page 125 and says he is tempted to go for it, and then votes for Holyflare on page 126. No mention of the KelsierSC case at all, despite being suspicious of him earlier in the game. On page 129, I post a response to GlowingBear's case, hoping for a response from one of the GlowingBear voters. Vivax posts like this: No reference at all to the KelsierSC case, no original reasons for lynching Holyflare, no response to the criticism I presented of the Holyflare case, no sign of the critical thinking and analytical Vivax that I saw throughout the rest of the game. The only town explanation I can come up with for Vivax is that he was reading sporadically and missed my repeated questions on GlowingBear's case, and really was that convinced by GlowingBear's case that he didn't mention the KelsierSC case in an attempt to gather support for lynching Holyflare instead. I'm very hesitant to call Vivax mafia for this. It's the only suspicious thing I see in his filter, while the rest of his play seems to be searching for mafia and being constructive. In the end I leave him at null/town, but he is definitely on my watch list. ______________________________________________________________________________________________ batsnacks It's sort of the same thing for batsnacks. The fact that I tried to get batsnacks lynched last game for not providing scumreads and him ending up being town is still heavily in the back of my mind. So I'm not going to try and get a read on him, but here's some thoughts. Batsnacks makes an early read on Half the Sky, and his reasons for this read have been heavily criticized. I still think this read makes him seem a bit towny, but I could be wrong. His push on LightningStrike is good, too. Batsnacks clearly noticed that I posted a case on KelsierSC, and he put KelsierSC into his "would lynch" list. His vote remained on Holyflare, and he seemed desperate to get people to switch from KelsierSC to Holyflare. He never provided comments on the KelsierSC case, either. ______________________________________________________________________________________________ GlowingBear I don't have a big read on GlowingBear yet. I am just including him here because he pushed on Holyflare over KelsierSC, and it would seem incomplete if I mentioned Vivax and batsnacks without mentioning GlowingBear. The main reason I find GlowingBear's push on Holyflare instead of KelsierSC less suspicious than the two previous cases is that GlowingBear acknowledged the KelsierSC case and said that he was fine with a KelsierSC lynch. ______________________________________________________________________________________________ Fecalfeast I've been defending Fecalfeast a bit throughout day 2. I suppose that was the first controversial read I made all game, since I only started seriously being suspicious of KelsierSC midway through day 2. Anyway, I maintain that Fecalfeast's play seems to be poor town instead of inactive mafia. He should be on a relatively short leash, though. ______________________________________________________________________________________________ sicklucker I said I wouldn't make meta reads. Well, here's a meta read. The main reason is because I tend to have trouble understanding sicklucker's arguments, so I usually somewhat ignore him. Usually, sicklucker is constantly posting and providing tons of different thoughts. Last game, he said that he likes to make fast reads and he was making reads all over the place. One example of that is when I posted a long post on batsnacks, sicklucker responded “I haven't read your post yet, but you are so town for writing that up”. This game, he has definitely done weird things and made a lot of posts, but they are all related to setup, presents, and roles. Very few reads. I don't think it makes sicklucker scum, but I don't see him as a sure town like some other people do. ______________________________________________________________________________________________ Then there's the arguments between Vivax and Xatalos, and GlowingBear and Holyflare. I haven't put enough time into the recent development of those cases, so I don't feel that I have a right to offer an opinion of those cases at the moment. I hope to look heavily into those tomorrow. In case I die, good luck and happy scumhunting! ... That really does not look like a green check. I mean, that really, really looks like a poor assumption we all made as a thread. Why would he say anything about keeping FF on a short leash if he thought he was town? | ||
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On December 15 2014 06:31 Fecalfeast wrote: I've got to get ready for work so feel free to berate my shitty reads while I'm not here, I may not make it back by EoN so here's my list for now. Vivax, HF, Xat, HTS my scum reads going into the next day because they were the main proponents of the wagon on me. Vivax and HF mentioned NKs to justify a scumread on me right away, I didn't look deeper to see who else used NK logic but these two said shit right out of the gate. Vivax unvoted me before kelsier put his vote on me, then voted me again after. xat was the last one to take his vote off me. HTS honestly is a gut read and pretty weak. I'm not going through the first day/night again so if there's anything in there that makes this list stupid let me know. Slam SL truffles liancourt top towns for me ...And I also find this interesting. Not definitive by a long-shot, but isn't it weird how the reads are lining up from nearly a week ago? This right after Xata and OWS clinched the lynch on KSC? And no real reason to include HTS at all, but he does anyway. I see that they're being called "shitty reads", but it's almost prophetic lol. | ||
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On December 21 2014 23:22 sicklucker wrote: Leave the medic alone rsoutin. And can the other god damn carol singer claim so we have another confirmed? Like there is literally no reason not to wth. I can do what I wish, SL, like ask people what they think. You and GB have been asking for claims all game. You should be delighted. I have noticed how you like to dodge me this game; don't think I haven't. | ||
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On December 21 2014 23:42 GlowingBear wrote: I've already said why JK shouldn't come out now. Which is especially odd given when the same situation happened with ritoky, you were all for it. And that was earlier in the game. I'm actually not asking for JK to claim unless they want to, however that doesn't preclude me from questioning Xata who is so many people's top scumread. Knowing if/who JK chose to act upon would go a long way toward solving the puzzle in this case. More than what happened with ritoky, anyway. So yes, I find it very curious that you've suddenly flipped your stance here. | ||
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On December 22 2014 00:17 Half the Sky wrote: Rasputin, do you think Trfel may have worded it that way because he was Santa and didn't want to give himself away? Of course, he got NKed, but I digress. I mean, a lot of people had FF scumread through the end of D2 and if I recall correctly it was Holyflare who called him out for the read for that reason. Of course that's possible. But that's not really the question, is it? The question is, why are we all assuming that FF is town? Not only is it possible that he's the godfather even if he was green-checked, but Trfel didn't come out firmly in his favor. I was null-reading FF for the most part, too. And that looks more like a null-leaning town but he's not sure post than anything else. I'm going to take a closer look at FF today, because I think he's gotten a free ride that he probably didn't deserve. I'm also not for lynching Xata or HTS today, unless GB comes out with that amazing case on Xata that he promised me and it's very compelling. | ||
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On December 22 2014 00:18 Xatalos wrote: Yeah I guess it might not be LYLO yet (unless there's 4 scum left?). Hm. I think that FF was most likely RB'd if he's town (the only clear "role" to RB after all) and it's possible that he was also RB'd as scum, although it's less likely. Either way I don't see how this makes me scum? We had one NK last night and FF claimed to try to shoot you. My two versions were the simplest ones, nigella attempting to "block/save" you would negate his shot and yours if you were scum. A roleblocker on a scum FF would also explain the night actions without assuming multiple role interactions. There are of course other possibilities involving multiple role interactions, but statistically it's more unlikely the more roles you assume were involved in night actions. | ||
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But here he is pre-claiming a present again, and claiming the KS again, and scum already knows that no one will counterclaim the KS or they would have when ritoky first claimed. So it's really quite possible for FF to be scum here, and that's why I'm asking if anyone's townreading him for anything but trfel's statement right before he died. @Xata...I'm not saying it's not possible that you can't both be town. I am saying that I favor simple explanations over complex ones. Regardless, I think it would be foolish not to look into FF at all. | ||
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On December 22 2014 00:40 sicklucker wrote: Well for one he wasint one of five idiots who voted out an obvious town yesterday????. Like we dont worry about ff unless we think the last mafia is that specific role Check again, SL. He enabled the shenanigans. They weren't happening without him and Templar. He is by no means above scrutiny. | ||
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On December 22 2014 00:26 GlowingBear wrote: Although that is just a soft confirm on FF and he could be mafia, he shouldn't be the lynch today. Too null for us to risk lynching him. We should have lynched him before if that's the problem. There is the votecount on day2 where mafia did seen to want a lynch on FF. Rasputin, you asked for our reads but I see no follow up on them. What do you make of it? Also, have in mind that a meta case is never an awesome case. Because it's meta. I'll make it anyway, later, cause I'm going to the beach with a date  I was playing a hunch, GB. I don't think this is a good time to comment on what I got from it, though. Your Xata and Oats reads I mostly already knew, and were consistent, so I can believe that at least if you're town you believe what you're saying. No one's commented on Slam (and he hasn't commented on others much) for so long that I was mostly just doing a spot check. | ||
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On December 22 2014 00:51 sicklucker wrote: Fair enough but hes always been like this. He also tried really hard to switch to hf after and thats who his vote ended on. It was more like he jokingly did it and mafia saw an opening. Regardless you dont kill him untill theres one mafia because he can be confirmed town if we kill the right mafia role. I'm not reading him as a seer green check anymore, which makes everything you just said invalid, and even if it wasn't...I think it's completely foolish not to even look into a player, which is all I've suggested doing. Do you see anyone pushing him for lynch yet? I may, today, if I find stuff in his filter to convince me that's a good play... But I'm not saying he's scum. I'm saying if the only reason we think he's town is because of Trfel, which on closer inspection is definitely not a certain green check in the slightest, that is a bad reason not to question him or investigate him at all. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On December 11 2014 10:17 Trfel wrote: I will add batsnacks and Fecalfeast to my list of tentative townreads. Need to head out now, but the main people I plan on investigating are Koshi, Damdred, Xatalos, LightningStrike, Tubesock, and KelsierSC. On December 11 2014 11:09 Trfel wrote: Sure. Reading his filter, he seemed really scummy at first, especially this post: Since then, he seems to have provided some fine analysis. I don't really agree with his conclusions, but he seems to be trying to find the mafia. Mostly looking at his list post here, as well as his analysis of The_Templar's post. I suppose that the post on The_Templar is extremely picky with no real conclusion, but I can see where he is coming from. He hasn't been doing an amazing job of scumreading, but for now it seems to be good enough that he seems to lean slightly towards town. If you don't mind, can you point me to the reasons why other people think he is scum? His first post after the lynch is about FF...could be in response to both ritoky and HF talking about lynching him a few posts earlier, but there's enough of a time difference there that it could also be out of the blue, which makes it more likely a green check response than if he was more actively in the conversation: + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2014 08:40 Holyflare wrote: I'm incredibly disappointed with the vigi if we do because he shot absolutely nobody that was a good shot. Not one of ff, ritoky etc died even though like 4 vets called them mafia -.- Not sure what i think of the present opening tbh. It would have been great to give them to all the scummy people and forced them to open them/use them to our will :/ 2 biggest proponents of a ff lynch also died which is cool, especially as lm was in the shadows while doing it so didn't look like a high priority kill On December 12 2014 09:02 ritoky wrote: 1) I attacked LS because he made pure meta reads and they were crap. This post lacks the context of that being in the very first hours of the game. On day 1 I am a pretty hard tunneler on people who do things I think are strange or make excessively bad reads. I felt his reads were dumpster level at the time so I went on them. He came back and started answering people's questions in a town way. Someone asked me how it was town and I told them the same thing I will tell you, he responded directly and only giving what he was asked. That is very townie to me, especially for a new player. Normally mafia try to change the topic or they add too many qualifiers or they give way more than was asked. He didn't, so I started reading him town. 2) First I need to clean this up, since the start of the game up until the night phase I had only called two people mafia: LS and ff. Yet the moment I get a town read, come out of the tunnel on LS and switch to ff; people call me bloodthirsty. I am just moving to my next scum read and pressuring. Kita says that my initial read doesn't matter to him, well I would say that he doesn't do a good job of finding scum on D1 then. I think that when someone believes a read enough to sheep it word for word the very lowest level of trust they should have in that person is leaning town. He had a null read on me after basically quoting my read 5 posts earlier, and then tried to dumb tell it away by saying he didn't read my post. Not town at all. 3) I admittedly have a shit read on bunnies, and I would agree with him that I was mostly outside of that conversation. I did however say: "There's a nearly 0 amount of people defending bunnies, so she is probably town" about 12 hrs into the day. And I did clarify that the stuff that....I don't remember who, can go look...was pushing about her vote on me and it having no real reason was a crap part of the case since it was primarily predicated on our friendship/relationship in mafia. 4) I still want to lynch ff. What about my present? Do you want me to claim which one I opened? If so, why? On December 12 2014 09:11 Trfel wrote: I still don't see very much reason to lynch Fecalfeast. Yes, his play hasn't been amazing yet, and I disagree with many of his reads, but I can still see where he is coming from. I would rather give him some more time before looking back at that lynch. His other comments on the FF read right after flip are directly in response to HF questioning the first one: + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2014 09:18 Trfel wrote: Yes, I have. I have also filter read his posts multiple times. If you would like, I can elaborate, but unfortunately I will be really busy for a bit. In summary, his play is mostly fluff, but that doesn't incriminate someone (see Alakaslam, batsnacks, for example). And in the remaining posts, while I disagree, I see little reason to believe that those are his honest opinions after searching for scum. On December 13 2014 13:28 Trfel wrote: Sorry, that sentence should have read "And in the remaining posts, while I disagree, I see little reason to believe that those aren't his honest opinions after searching for scum. I'll take another look at Fecalfeast, and then move on to some other players. Again, he brings up FF...first in a post defending himself, and later after presumably filter-diving as he claimed: + Show Spoiler + On December 13 2014 16:17 Trfel wrote: Ok, a few comments to the people who feel I am a good lynch (which to be honest, is probably everyone, or at least ought to be). First, other than me being a lurker, the only argument is a meta read. Which is based off of a whole one game. A student mafia game, with 13-14 people, where I was shot on Night 1. Meaning, I played for 72 hours in an "easy" game and only had to read ~30 pages the entire time. Then, I jumped into a game with ~26 players, including several veterans and skilled players. And it's already over 100 posts. I'm simply not able to play at the same level I was last game, and yes, that's not ideal. In addition, one thing that my last game taught me is that meta reads have limited use. So at the moment, I don't intend to make any meta reads. That doesn't mean I'm not trying, it just means that I decided that spending hours pouring over previous games for minimal value isn't a good use of time. Again, I realize 100% that I appear to be a very good lynch. But that is just for me being a policy lynch, the meta argument really lacks backing. My request is that people spend the next while looking into other people to lynch, as with this much time in the day I don't believe you should start looking at a policy lynch already. Anyway, I'll be looking at Fecalfeast's filter and the cases made against him again now. If anyone has any (specific) questions they would like me to answer, I should be up for a short while. But I will ignore general questions like "who is scum", as I'll answer that when I can. On December 13 2014 16:38 Trfel wrote: First, I don't really know what night kill analysis is or how to perform it. If someone could please explain this or link me a good guide to read, that would be great, as my current understanding is that night kills are WIFOM and should be ignored. Ironically, this came from an Oatsmaster post in the Student Mafia IV game, so this isn't a new view that he has presented. Excluding that, I still am not that happy with a Fecalfeast lynch. Here is why. Fecalfeast hasn't presented any real reasons to read him as town. I'm not happy with him, and he's obviously playing badly (he's admitted several times that he hasn't been keeping up with the thread). That doesn't make him mafia, though, it just makes him lazy. I've read the cases on him, or at least all of the cases I could easily find. They generally seem weak, with the main argument being that he is doing a poor job of finding scum. While I disagree with many of the reads he presents in his list post, I get the impression that he is thinking, and I can see how someone would reach those conclusions. Basically, there doesn't seem to be much evidence against Fecalfeast, besides a simple policy lynch. And at this point, I really hope we can come up with something better than a policy lynch. One example is Tubesock, who feels better than a policy lynch to me due to some of the weird posting and the potential "scumslip". I still hope that there is a better target, though. Looking at Oatsmaster and Vivax's case on him next. He then presents his case on KSC, without initially arguing about FF even though FF is one of the main wagons at this point...yet comes back in to defend him a few posts later: + Show Spoiler + On December 14 2014 06:06 Trfel wrote: Ok, I'm pretty suspicious of KelsierSC. The first real thing he does in the game are these posts, which I'm sure everyone is familiar with: This feels really weak to me, especially now that KelsierSC linked the game that he refers to. I don't understand how he can possibly find Fecalfeast the slightest bit scummy for this. It feels like he is really forcing this read from nothing, while potentially identifying a stupid Scrooge (which happened...) and appearing towny. Same with his early townread on Holyflare. Even Holyflare says that it is weak, and I agree. We've already established that Holyflare is really good at playing Mafia, and that makes it really hard to identify him. So no, a meta case that early into the game isn't very good. This post again lacks substance, and feels like he is making a read for the purpose of making a read. This post seems to take even more force out of his meta case on Fecalfeast. Is it really a good argument, if he isn't sure himself what Fecalfeast's day 1 play is like? KelsierSC and I seem to be the only two people who read batsnacks as town for the post he made on Half the Sky. (Since then, batsnacks' play has made me much more suspicious, but that isn't the point of this post). The weird thing is, KelsierSC read batsnacks as town because he agreed with batsnacks' post. The validity of batsnacks' post has since been shown to be very questionable, but KelsierSC hasn't changed his stance. KelsierSC then spends several posts focusing on Alakaslam. Here is his explanation. Later, he goes back on this and says that this didn't end up working out. More words, less analysis. His scum list seems to be changing without that much explanation. He says that he would happily vote 27nb, but doesn't include her in his lynch list. And his inclusion of Vivax in the lynch list for bad reads seems strange. Bad reads don't necessarily make someone scum, it is the intent behind them. And these reads are seeming forced. Later, he comes back with a new post, and Vivax isn't mentioned in his scum reads at all. The point about his changing stance on ritoky is also interesting. He puts ritoky into his town circle, then adds him to his lynch list, saying he has done absolutely nothing. His explanation of this is that he forgot he had him in his town circle. Shouldn't his reads be the same every time, even if he forgot all of his previous reads? If he was trying hard to make real reads, they would. If his read changed due to new information, that would be good, but the only new information he provided is that a few people scumread him. "I forgot" and "others are scumreading him" are not good reasons to change a read like that, he should at least investigate the case himself. In conclusion, I would be happy to lynch KelsierSC. Moreso than Fecalfeast, anyway. Obviously it's not certain, but it seems better than anything else. Now I will take a look at GlowingBear's complete case on Holyflare. On December 14 2014 06:21 Trfel wrote: Let's assume for a moment that Fecalfeast is mafia. He's playing terribly in that respect too. He's got a huge wagon on him, and he just says he doesn't want to play and that he shouldn't have signed up for the game. That's true no matter his alignment. He obviously is too busy to play this game. That doesn't make him town or mafia, that makes him inactive. There are better lynches. Then there's this last post addressing his reads before EoN...FF does appear to be his only townread on it, yet it is hardly a strong statement. So I don't know: + Show Spoiler + On December 15 2014 07:58 Trfel wrote: Ok, a few thoughts at the end of the night. I'm not going to go super deep into this, since the nightkills do provide information that can be useful, but here's my thinking. I'm also not going to call someone super scummy or clean right before a bunch of new information comes out, for obvious reasons. Vivax Vivax seems... strange. I'm not really sure what to make of it. The first thing to note is, he has been making a lot of reads. From looking at his filter, here's what I found. + Show Spoiler [Vivax's Reads] + suspicious of 27ninjabunnies suspicious of ritoky suspicious of Tubesock suspicious of KelsierSC suspicious of Xatalos suspicious of rsoultin no longer suspicious of Xatalos suspicious of batsnacks less suspicious of batsnacks suspicious of Fecalfeast suspicious of Trfel suspicious of GlowingBear suspicious of The_Templar suspicious of Oatsmaster suspicious of Holyflare suspicious of Xatalos I think that this is just a playstyle, and not a sign of being mafia. It's not good or bad. Also, his reads are all well-explained and what he is doing makes sense to me. Really, I don't see any signs of him being scum here. Except, his play leading up to the day 2 lynch deadline has felt a bit off to me. On page 120, GlowingBear posts Part 2 of his case on Holyflare. The full case summary is posted on page 121. On page 122, I post a case on KelsierSC. Vivax posts a few pages after this, but doesn't respond to either case. Then he mentions the Holyflare case on page 125 and says he is tempted to go for it, and then votes for Holyflare on page 126. No mention of the KelsierSC case at all, despite being suspicious of him earlier in the game. On page 129, I post a response to GlowingBear's case, hoping for a response from one of the GlowingBear voters. Vivax posts like this: No reference at all to the KelsierSC case, no original reasons for lynching Holyflare, no response to the criticism I presented of the Holyflare case, no sign of the critical thinking and analytical Vivax that I saw throughout the rest of the game. The only town explanation I can come up with for Vivax is that he was reading sporadically and missed my repeated questions on GlowingBear's case, and really was that convinced by GlowingBear's case that he didn't mention the KelsierSC case in an attempt to gather support for lynching Holyflare instead. I'm very hesitant to call Vivax mafia for this. It's the only suspicious thing I see in his filter, while the rest of his play seems to be searching for mafia and being constructive. In the end I leave him at null/town, but he is definitely on my watch list. ______________________________________________________________________________________________ batsnacks It's sort of the same thing for batsnacks. The fact that I tried to get batsnacks lynched last game for not providing scumreads and him ending up being town is still heavily in the back of my mind. So I'm not going to try and get a read on him, but here's some thoughts. Batsnacks makes an early read on Half the Sky, and his reasons for this read have been heavily criticized. I still think this read makes him seem a bit towny, but I could be wrong. His push on LightningStrike is good, too. Batsnacks clearly noticed that I posted a case on KelsierSC, and he put KelsierSC into his "would lynch" list. His vote remained on Holyflare, and he seemed desperate to get people to switch from KelsierSC to Holyflare. He never provided comments on the KelsierSC case, either. ______________________________________________________________________________________________ GlowingBear I don't have a big read on GlowingBear yet. I am just including him here because he pushed on Holyflare over KelsierSC, and it would seem incomplete if I mentioned Vivax and batsnacks without mentioning GlowingBear. The main reason I find GlowingBear's push on Holyflare instead of KelsierSC less suspicious than the two previous cases is that GlowingBear acknowledged the KelsierSC case and said that he was fine with a KelsierSC lynch. ______________________________________________________________________________________________ Fecalfeast I've been defending Fecalfeast a bit throughout day 2. I suppose that was the first controversial read I made all game, since I only started seriously being suspicious of KelsierSC midway through day 2. Anyway, I maintain that Fecalfeast's play seems to be poor town instead of inactive mafia. He should be on a relatively short leash, though. ______________________________________________________________________________________________ sicklucker I said I wouldn't make meta reads. Well, here's a meta read. The main reason is because I tend to have trouble understanding sicklucker's arguments, so I usually somewhat ignore him. Usually, sicklucker is constantly posting and providing tons of different thoughts. Last game, he said that he likes to make fast reads and he was making reads all over the place. One example of that is when I posted a long post on batsnacks, sicklucker responded “I haven't read your post yet, but you are so town for writing that up”. This game, he has definitely done weird things and made a lot of posts, but they are all related to setup, presents, and roles. Very few reads. I don't think it makes sicklucker scum, but I don't see him as a sure town like some other people do. ______________________________________________________________________________________________ Then there's the arguments between Vivax and Xatalos, and GlowingBear and Holyflare. I haven't put enough time into the recent development of those cases, so I don't feel that I have a right to offer an opinion of those cases at the moment. I hope to look heavily into those tomorrow. In case I die, good luck and happy scumhunting! It's just not sitting definite enough one way or another for me. I can't tell if Trfel was simply against a policy lynch in general, or if he actually did seer FF. It's more difficult to discern because of the non-committal end read, and the fact that he was townreading FF before the end of Night 1...before he could have seered him. Yet most of his Day 2 filter was about FF in one way or another, at least in terms of town reads or people he didn't want to lynch. This could mean a seer check, or just that of the people we were discussing for lynch, FF was the one he was most uncomfortable with. -_- For me it's completely inconclusive. | ||
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On December 22 2014 04:14 The_Templar wrote: Stop focusing on FF and focus on why I'm town and not mafia. Some of you seem to disagree on very plain facts. And these very plain facts are what, exactly? | ||
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On December 22 2014 05:39 GlowingBear wrote: Do not waste time on FF. this is not the day to lynch him Looking into someone is not the same as pushing them. There is an amazing amount of push-back for a simple "there's really nothing proving that FF was green-checked by Trfel" statement. I haven't voted yet, but I probably will go with the Templar wagon at this time. No reason I can't look into people, though. What is so terrible about that, GB? | ||
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On December 22 2014 07:18 The_Templar wrote: We have ~25 hours before deadline, right? Correct. Will you answer my question? What facts were you referring to? | ||
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Do you have any scumreads? | ||
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On December 22 2014 08:17 Fecalfeast wrote: I'm less sure of xata and compelled to agree with sicklucker(wtf?) about HTS What makes you think that HTS is scum, FF? | ||
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I'm not trying to like...keep people from voting HTS. I'm just trying to understand why they are...so far I haven't seen anything that was damning other than the lynch of Tube which, lol, we can't all be scum so...if we want to lynch someone from that wagon it's going to require more scummy behavior than just that. | ||
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For someone so determined to figure out the game... | ||
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On December 22 2014 09:49 Fecalfeast wrote: Pressure votes, then? For now, no, I think. -shrugs- xP sorry GB. I have a habit of just stating what I think when the thought forms. | ||
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On December 22 2014 10:48 LightningStrike wrote: Templar: Scum from looking on HF case HF: Town he was leading the town Day 1 and 2 although he seemed off the last few days but he been busy which I can understand because it's christmas time. Lol, he was leading the town on Day 2? | ||
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On December 22 2014 11:15 GlowingBear wrote: Poor excuse, Templar was leading the votes if I remember correctly and if it wasn't for Tubesock ridiculous shenannies, he would probably be lynched. I wanted to see LS' response, too. However, GB, faulty reasoning or not (and I think it had more to do with me calling for the shenannies than anything) if there's one ghost in the game, there's probably more than one. LS is less likely to be scum than even FF. | ||
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I trust Slam on this one. Not going to say why, but it has something to do with my questions from earlier. Xata isn't a good lynch, though your meta case is decent, GB. | ||
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When I say I'm going to give someone a chance, I try to. To be fair, I'm not actually townreading you right now, just giving you the benefit of the doubt.I speak Spanish. It's close enough to Brazilian Portuguese to figure out most things. | ||
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HF was on my list of scumreads today at the very beginning, if you didn't notice. | ||
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On December 22 2014 11:55 LightningStrike wrote: Templar mainly posted fluff and hinted at ksc being scum earlier in one of his mini stories. He basically summarized the thread...and the hinting at KSC being scum was just cause of the silly randomizer stuff -_- it looked like he was town-reading him the rest of the time. Not saying the behavior doesn't look scummy. He's still just a policy lynch for me though. | ||
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I will take a closer look later, but I don't have the time right now. Accept that and move on. | ||
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On December 22 2014 13:43 sicklucker wrote: My problem rsoultin is that im going to die and your going to lead another mafia mislynch because your not willing to admit that its probably what happened. So when xata and hts follow you into another lynch your not going to care. I've already said there probably at least was one scum there and I don't have the time to filter dive and figure out who. Now lay...the fuck...off. Or I will just ignore you. | ||
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- He has an excuse for everything. Literally. Everything. Keep telling the teacher your dog ate your hw, dude. - His push against bunnies (and I know most of you sheeped it) was not a strong push. It was a Day 1 push and could have been by a town, true, and most of town agreed with him, but it all started with a list post? And cause she posted some fluff? There was no reason for that wagon to be as crazy strong as it was. - His other case was against...Templar. Look at his case. Reread it. Read my critique on it. He is clearly misrepresenting some of the facts, which at best says that case was haphazard, and at worst that he was doing it intentionally. And tell me what Templar has really done other than lurk. Tell me that isn't a policy lynch. - Most of his filter is him screaming at people for scumreading him and going on about how he is going to win this game. Rofl. Seriously? For those of you who have played with him before, is this your great town leader? Bunnies and Templar and rage!fitting? What has he contributed to the scum lynches we actually got? KSC he had nothing to do with, ritoky he barely pushed at all. I haven't played with him before. Maybe he is always hot air. But that doesn't explain those of you saying he's an amazing player... - Look at when his activity slacked off. It's been almost 48 hours since his last posts when he promised to start actually playing and bringing reads. Do you see any? And why has his activity slacked off? Oh, sure, it may be Xmas... OR IT MAY JUST BE BECAUSE THIS IS THE FIRST DAY THAT HE IS NOT BEING PUSHED FOR LYNCH SINCE DAY 2 I wanted a scumread on him before I pushed him. I now have it. Do what y'all want, but to me, this is better than an oh, Templar hasn't really been playing push. ##vote HF | ||
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On December 23 2014 08:25 Xatalos wrote: rsoultin: You were definitely good at creating constructive discussion. Unfortunately your reads were pretty off target throughout the game. But I guess it wasn't all that easy to figure out me&HF were scum... HF especially put a lot of effort into some of his posts. Lol, I got him at the end xP Granted, I haven't read what happened after that and might have changed my mind if I'd been around to read it but... woot! lol >< and yes, my reads were off. I distracted myself with SL way too much and was convinced GB was scum lol | ||
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I was winning the horrible player award in the obs qt lol Together we almost make a whole mafia player | ||
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hts, you're the man, girl, lol -flicks slam- i'm sure she wants to be...whoever that barbarian up there is | ||
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1. FF lol, dude, claiming that present and choosing to shoot who you did...and saying yeah guys, take a look at me, get it out of your system which was just townie enough to make me not interested enough to filter dive you. 2. HTS and that amazing last save. Great call lady. I was hoping Nigella would out if she protected Xat cause Xat would have been bagged for sure. 3. LIAN, lol. YOUR FIT. I looked through your entire filter looking for why the hell you were so kill HF, kill HF, and found the basework for my scumread on him. Your screaming did not go in vain. 4. HF, dude, sorry to say it man, but you being AFK all of Day 5 killed any chance of my not calling you out and voting for you. Blame Oats all you want, but you made some mistakes, too. You really did not have much influence on this thread, just a really stubborn town pocketed 5. The stubborn donkey finally called HF out, and early enough to get a good train rolling. 6. GB/SL all the other townies rolling up on that, but especially GB, strong push, great way to stick to your guns. 7. HTS' claim. Good god, woman, your timing could not have been more perfect. 8. GB for keeping that wagon anchored on HF, and convincing townies to stay/return there after HTS claimed. Honestly, if any of those things hadn't happened that day probably would not have turned out the same. <3 HTS/lian for MVP but a lot of great work from the rest of the town, too. You guys rock. I should be muzzled half the game lol and will try to learn not to go out full force without looking back in the future xP (GB, SL, lian, love you guys, lol.) | ||
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Some townies did some good shit in the end despite me, and maybe we were helped along by poor scum decisions, and maybe you played perfect, but those town did some good shit and scum got got. ^Totes terrible grammar. Getting the right reads is important, too | ||
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I know you're a vet and pretty damn good and all, and I totally missed the most obvious things but those cases were yuuuuck and directed at super easy scapegoats you spent way more time railing about how stupid players were for scumreading you, even after scum lynches just as constructive criticism, take it or leave it | ||
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and I think later the mod came back and said they could shoot whoever they wanted but the bullet would only work on the disgruntled... we backed and forth on that a lot lol | ||
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Between that and the screaming I turned off to everything else you said for too long. My bias, most definitely, and I need to learn that a bad case (Vivax had a couple) =/= scum or wrong. But you did kind of dig yourself a hole there, at least with me. SL has that effect on me, too. All the present talk made me inclined to ignore the good point you guys brought up about the present and HF later. I'm a bullheaded dingbat, but thinking things out before you present them will help you guys, I'm pretty sure. | ||
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On December 24 2014 03:30 marvellosity wrote: Palmar already said it but you have to understand that a different style to yours (which is slow, logical, methodical) does not equal mafia. You were throwing suspicion on GB for his very, very, very townie push, and you were also pushing suspicion on sicklucker who was actually just incredibly townie in every facet. And essentially you didn't have mafia on HF for ages (despite the damning voting on d2 but that's something else) because he posted in a way you approved of with his cases. This was quite a strange game in one way because normally I feel a lot of mafia members are too bus-happy, whereas in this game all the mafia had a hard-on for defending other mafia at almost every turn, and in the end it tied them all together. Trfel, liancourt, and sicklucker especially understood what happened d2 with great game-reading sense - essentially all the mafia piled on KsC in an attempt to save Holyflare. Xatalos and KsC cross-defended each other repeatedly, Xatalos+Oats defended HF constantly, HF defended Xatalos, etc etc. Oats' play was just dire, but if mafia had played the d2 lynch better and/or Xata had judiciously bussed HF at the right time, mafia might have stood more of a chance. Lol, yup. Learning experience. I'm like this irl, too...emotion makes me turn off. I'll get it eventually ^^ | ||
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