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On December 13 2014 13:40 rsoultin wrote:
Viva, if you have questions for me, I am here to answer them, so it's a good time to ask.
I will say, though, that GB looks like a good lynch to me today. Drunk or not. He's managed to have an excuse all game...not sitting well with me at all.
U have a townread on you. Don't make me rescind that.
You're not considering the present giving mechanics. It tells a lot about alignment,
I'm sure HF is mafia
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On December 13 2014 13:40 rsoultin wrote:
Viva, if you have questions for me, I am here to answer them, so it's a good time to ask.
I will say, though, that GB looks like a good lynch to me today. Drunk or not. He's managed to have an excuse all game...not sitting well with me at all.
I do have a question and it's the fact that you bring up more points on ritoky being scum than GB being scum. You make a whole list of points that in your opinion speak for ritoky being mafia but your reasons for voting GB are that he's not living up to your standards and making excuses. From my perspective your preference should be weighted towards ritoky. Why isn't that the case?
@ Bats (and thread)
Trfel didn't copypaste anything from me last game. I only gave him general advice on the game, he made his own reads and posts. For today I would prioritize FF and GB given the NKs and the arguments on the two which are less gut based than the others, also I'm waiting for you (bats) to give me your thoughts on the other guys I mentioned, please.
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Meh, I just think it's really obvious when I start switching into pure heuristics mode instead of looking at every single post in-depth. That's all.
I didn't really see how Vivax could have changed his read on Xat so fast just looking at his filter, but I'm thinking that has more to do with the post restrictions and the walls being more important because I find his defense mostly adequate.
It's so much harder to gather good reads when everyone is posting walls and speech isn't natural. That's, like, the best way for me to gather reads and it's so much harder for me right now because it's walls almost everywhere. I'm willing to give him more time because I found his defense adequate, but I really want to see him follow up on stuff because I'm putting a lot of faith in the more experienced players right now.
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I'm looking at his scumreads and I don't really know if I want to lynch any of them based on what he said.
That's kind of what bugs me most, I guess.
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On December 13 2014 13:51 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 13:40 rsoultin wrote:
Viva, if you have questions for me, I am here to answer them, so it's a good time to ask.
I will say, though, that GB looks like a good lynch to me today. Drunk or not. He's managed to have an excuse all game...not sitting well with me at all. U have a townread on you. Don't make me rescind that. You're not considering the present giving mechanics. It tells a lot about alignment, I'm sure HF is mafia
You complain about vivax attacking the player and not the case but I've put up more than adequate defences and have called you out on multiple discrepancies but you just ignore it instead and do things like this.
Ok gb
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Ritoky I still think is a good case. Yet, my case is mostly based on his claim, and I know that, and I know that doesn't impress people here...but it is a bias/blindspot of mine to assume that people do not play blatantly stupid. I would be willing to lynch him before his NK tonight. If he doesn't die tonight from mafia, then I really think that we'd be blind not to take another look at him.
GB I don't like for all the excuses. His reads are half-assed and usually he doesn't bother to support or back things up. More concerning to me than that is his call for everyone to roleclaim. We've got 3 downed disgruntled workers, 1 downed joyful child and 1 claimed one. We've also got a claimed ghost. And if I remember correctly another might have claimed but I'm not 100% on that. Add to that the masons and the rest of the ghosts? Other than a few outliers there, that tells scum that everyone who hasn't claimed and isn't scum probably has a role. It's a terrible idea and I'm assuming GB has been around enough to know that. Benefits scum more than town.
I'm also inclined to take a look at FF, but he's more null/null leaning scum for me due to his sheeping/few posts and bats is similar...I don't like that he's not backing up all his claims of who is scum and who isn't. But to be honest he got like this the one time before when I played with him and he was town, and I'm leery of being too quick to pull the trigger on him again.
Trfel I think is a great spot to look to on Day 3 if he still doesn't follow through with the reads he promised. That said, there are a lot of people here, so if he's really going through it with a fine-tooth comb I could see why it's taking so long.
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On December 13 2014 13:51 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 13:40 rsoultin wrote:
Viva, if you have questions for me, I am here to answer them, so it's a good time to ask.
I will say, though, that GB looks like a good lynch to me today. Drunk or not. He's managed to have an excuse all game...not sitting well with me at all. I do have a question and it's the fact that you bring up more points on ritoky being scum than GB being scum. You make a whole list of points that in your opinion speak for ritoky being mafia but your reasons for voting GB are that he's not living up to your standards and making excuses. From my perspective your preference should be weighted towards ritoky. Why isn't that the case? @ Bats (and thread) Trfel didn't copypaste anything from me last game. I only gave him general advice on the game, he made his own reads and posts. For today I would prioritize FF and GB given the NKs and the arguments on the two which are less gut based than the others, also I'm waiting for you (bats) to give me your thoughts on the other guys I mentioned, please.
My initial vote on GB was for pressure. I more or less stated as much in the Bring on the reads, scummy comment at the end. He's still not performing.
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@Vivax the other three people on that list who weren't Trfel you said were gut reads. I similarly don't have "thoughts" but gut feelings on those people. I am not convinced any of them are scum except for Trfel. I could skim through filters and find 1 townie thing or 1 scummy thing they did to support my gut read... like you probably did. But I'm saying it like it is. Gut says GB, FF, and templar are maybe town. I'm less confident about GB and templar, they're closer to null. Trfel is the only person on that list I feel strongly about.
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On December 13 2014 13:58 batsnacks wrote:
@Vivax the other three people on that list who weren't Trfel you said were gut reads. I similarly don't have "thoughts" but gut feelings on those people. I am not convinced any of them are scum except for Trfel. I could skim through filters and find 1 townie thing or 1 scummy thing they did to support my gut read... like you probably did. But I'm saying it like it is. Gut says GB, FF, and templar are maybe town. I'm less confident about GB and templar, they're closer to null. Trfel is the only person on that list I feel strongly about.
Why are you ignoring everything I say?
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On December 13 2014 13:59 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 13:58 batsnacks wrote:
@Vivax the other three people on that list who weren't Trfel you said were gut reads. I similarly don't have "thoughts" but gut feelings on those people. I am not convinced any of them are scum except for Trfel. I could skim through filters and find 1 townie thing or 1 scummy thing they did to support my gut read... like you probably did. But I'm saying it like it is. Gut says GB, FF, and templar are maybe town. I'm less confident about GB and templar, they're closer to null. Trfel is the only person on that list I feel strongly about. Why are you ignoring everything I say?
I don't agree with lynching ritoky, which is most of what you've talked about today, and there was a great deal of talking about it. You haven't said anything today that I remember agreeing with. So I just left it alone.
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On December 13 2014 14:07 batsnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 13:59 Holyflare wrote:On December 13 2014 13:58 batsnacks wrote:
@Vivax the other three people on that list who weren't Trfel you said were gut reads. I similarly don't have "thoughts" but gut feelings on those people. I am not convinced any of them are scum except for Trfel. I could skim through filters and find 1 townie thing or 1 scummy thing they did to support my gut read... like you probably did. But I'm saying it like it is. Gut says GB, FF, and templar are maybe town. I'm less confident about GB and templar, they're closer to null. Trfel is the only person on that list I feel strongly about. Why are you ignoring everything I say? I don't agree with lynching ritoky, which is most of what you've talked about today, and there was a great deal of talking about it. You haven't said anything today that I remember agreeing with. So I just left it alone.
Yes that's not what I'm talking about:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?page=100#1986
You also call me mafia after gb's "case" but don't even acknowledge any of what I/vivax/rsoultin have said to counter it. It looks like you're just freely tagging onto whoever is being scum read tbh
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Why not @ Bats? Ritoky was on your earlier scumlist. And he started pushing HF first, not the other way around. With a crap meta argument at that.
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On December 13 2014 09:57 rsoultin wrote:Coulda sworn you'd said who you were sending the present to. And now I know why. You all but did. I came to the conclusion mid-day yesterday and remembered it as you saying it, lol. Still, if I get that strong an impression off it, anyone could. Show nested quote +On December 09 2014 11:54 sicklucker wrote:On December 09 2014 11:49 The_Templar wrote:On December 09 2014 11:48 sicklucker wrote:
Oh shit. Ya I missed that part I was fishing and trolling for info on who the other Joyful Child were because I figured only we knew presents were in the game because I missed that part. I thought damdred and gb were the other two, I still kinda think they are oh well. Who wants a present.
Ok so we all know theres 3 presents in the game. But what I know is that its the Joyful Child role that has these presents. No one else can be sure of this as its not said in the description. But Damdred and gb sent out little tells that told me they were this role.I might have been wrong so ill reread it later but I think their the other giftgivers and therefore town.
Also Ive been up 20 hours and dont rly feel like playing much right now but the insomnia might have kicked in. I am 98% sure that any role can get presents, as far as we know. Think about it the Joyful Child role has no description but it is a role its basically vanilla town 2.0. I have a present and im a joyful child it adds up. Its pretty obvious. Im pretty sure something dandred said makes me ride or die with him maybe gb too. Let me look it up. Then: Show nested quote +On December 09 2014 12:01 sicklucker wrote:
Also Gb didnt get my child reference HE IS NOT OF THE CHILDREN. i need to stop spamming small posts for there is a limit Then: Show nested quote +On December 10 2014 00:52 sicklucker wrote:
Also Gb just said hes a role for no reason. Wtf man do not open that present. Then: Show nested quote +On December 10 2014 01:02 sicklucker wrote:
Ok I just sent my gift now to someone im sure is town and not going to get killed tonight. Open it if you think im town its not the death present I think. I think a mafia starts with that one but im not sure. You thought GB had claimed a role, you already said you'd ride or die with Damdred, and you say in your last post that you're sure they're town and won't be killed. Tell me that's not obvious? Pretty sure the only other you even mention as a townread before you said you sent your gift was HF.
Your case is way too good on this makes me suspect you I feel like you were role hunting or copied this out of the scum qt. Your correct mafia could sniff this out except there more likely to wait to do something about it as hes going to die on his own 1/3 times. Its a waste of kp especially with a rber who can get ride of it with 1 visit forever. Also if its the seer present they can kill him the next night before he reveals so its only 1/3 presents that can hurt them the next night.
Its just too much of a coincidence but possible altho very unlikely which is why I said 90% not 100%. Also not that important. But you gave it more thought at the time then me which is interesting.
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On December 13 2014 14:07 batsnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 13:59 Holyflare wrote:On December 13 2014 13:58 batsnacks wrote:
@Vivax the other three people on that list who weren't Trfel you said were gut reads. I similarly don't have "thoughts" but gut feelings on those people. I am not convinced any of them are scum except for Trfel. I could skim through filters and find 1 townie thing or 1 scummy thing they did to support my gut read... like you probably did. But I'm saying it like it is. Gut says GB, FF, and templar are maybe town. I'm less confident about GB and templar, they're closer to null. Trfel is the only person on that list I feel strongly about. Why are you ignoring everything I say? I don't agree with lynching ritoky, which is most of what you've talked about today, and there was a great deal of talking about it. You haven't said anything today that I remember agreeing with. So I just left it alone.
I also find it hard to believe that you can believe this paragraph stating that all I've done is push ritoky but then make no comment on gb saying I haven't even pushed ritoky today
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On December 13 2014 13:58 batsnacks wrote:
@Vivax the other three people on that list who weren't Trfel you said were gut reads. I similarly don't have "thoughts" but gut feelings on those people. I am not convinced any of them are scum except for Trfel. I could skim through filters and find 1 townie thing or 1 scummy thing they did to support my gut read... like you probably did. But I'm saying it like it is. Gut says GB, FF, and templar are maybe town. I'm less confident about GB and templar, they're closer to null. Trfel is the only person on that list I feel strongly about.
Fact of the matter is that I have arguments for both GB and FF being scum, not just gut reads. The gut reads are basically everyone else (Templar, trfel) since those arguments rely on their meta.
GB's stance regarding froggy doesn't make sense since he scumreads him for his entrance but doesn't try to analyse his templar read further besides saying "it's ok". Also he says it's ok but he doesn't scumread templar so I wonder how he can find a read ok if he doesn't agree with it?
Plus his narrowness on having HF as scumread and not openly considering a froggy lynch even though he gave all the arguments for his being a scum entrance.
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On December 13 2014 14:13 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 14:07 batsnacks wrote:On December 13 2014 13:59 Holyflare wrote:On December 13 2014 13:58 batsnacks wrote:
@Vivax the other three people on that list who weren't Trfel you said were gut reads. I similarly don't have "thoughts" but gut feelings on those people. I am not convinced any of them are scum except for Trfel. I could skim through filters and find 1 townie thing or 1 scummy thing they did to support my gut read... like you probably did. But I'm saying it like it is. Gut says GB, FF, and templar are maybe town. I'm less confident about GB and templar, they're closer to null. Trfel is the only person on that list I feel strongly about. Why are you ignoring everything I say? I don't agree with lynching ritoky, which is most of what you've talked about today, and there was a great deal of talking about it. You haven't said anything today that I remember agreeing with. So I just left it alone. Yes that's not what I'm talking about: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?page=100#1986You also call me mafia after gb's "case" but don't even acknowledge any of what I/vivax/rsoultin have said to counter it. It looks like you're just freely tagging onto whoever is being scum read tbh
I agreed with one of your reads, 27nb. Approx. half the game did.
If I felt that strongly about you being mafia I would try a lot harder to get you lynched. I just think you might be mafia, and I have this idea that other people (not GB) might have that feeling too but are keeping quiet about it because they're scared or smth.
I voted HTS because I couldn't remember a single thing she posted except for asking for MORE reading material.
I might have voted tubesock for saying there are 5 mafia.
I was the first person this game to point out Trfel is not himself. I still think Trfel is not himself. Vivax has said he doesn't think Trfel is himself, and Vivax coached him last game. So I was wondering if Vivax wanted to vote Trfel with me. He apparently doesn't because he has other "gut reads" to worry about or something.
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On December 13 2014 14:14 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 09:57 rsoultin wrote:Coulda sworn you'd said who you were sending the present to. And now I know why. You all but did. I came to the conclusion mid-day yesterday and remembered it as you saying it, lol. Still, if I get that strong an impression off it, anyone could. On December 09 2014 11:54 sicklucker wrote:On December 09 2014 11:49 The_Templar wrote:On December 09 2014 11:48 sicklucker wrote:
Oh shit. Ya I missed that part I was fishing and trolling for info on who the other Joyful Child were because I figured only we knew presents were in the game because I missed that part. I thought damdred and gb were the other two, I still kinda think they are oh well. Who wants a present.
Ok so we all know theres 3 presents in the game. But what I know is that its the Joyful Child role that has these presents. No one else can be sure of this as its not said in the description. But Damdred and gb sent out little tells that told me they were this role.I might have been wrong so ill reread it later but I think their the other giftgivers and therefore town.
Also Ive been up 20 hours and dont rly feel like playing much right now but the insomnia might have kicked in. I am 98% sure that any role can get presents, as far as we know. Think about it the Joyful Child role has no description but it is a role its basically vanilla town 2.0. I have a present and im a joyful child it adds up. Its pretty obvious. Im pretty sure something dandred said makes me ride or die with him maybe gb too. Let me look it up. Then: On December 09 2014 12:01 sicklucker wrote:
Also Gb didnt get my child reference HE IS NOT OF THE CHILDREN. i need to stop spamming small posts for there is a limit Then: On December 10 2014 00:52 sicklucker wrote:
Also Gb just said hes a role for no reason. Wtf man do not open that present. Then: On December 10 2014 01:02 sicklucker wrote:
Ok I just sent my gift now to someone im sure is town and not going to get killed tonight. Open it if you think im town its not the death present I think. I think a mafia starts with that one but im not sure. You thought GB had claimed a role, you already said you'd ride or die with Damdred, and you say in your last post that you're sure they're town and won't be killed. Tell me that's not obvious? Pretty sure the only other you even mention as a townread before you said you sent your gift was HF. Your case is way too good on this makes me suspect you I feel like you were role hunting or copied this out of the scum qt. Your correct mafia could sniff this out except there more likely to wait to do something about it as hes going to die on his own 1/3 times. Its a waste of kp especially with a rber who can get ride of it with 1 visit forever. Also if its the seer present they can kill him the next night before he reveals so its only 1/3 presents that can hurt them the next night. Its just too much of a coincidence but possible altho very unlikely which is why I said 90% not 100%. Also not that important. But you gave it more thought at the time then me which is interesting.
Kinda dumb for me as mafia to post something from a scum QT, no? Though at least my point has now been made. Not hard at all to guess where that present was going. (To be honest, though, if you're even inclined to listen which I can understand if you're not given how often we've butted heads today, I was actually going back through your filter to find out where you'd said it/why I thought you'd said it. I usually do doublecheck things when people say I'm getting stuff mixed up. Done it several times this game.)
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So heres why I think its unlikely gb is mafia since he does not have his full wits.
So gb gives his present to ritoky. I disagree but its most likely from a town perspective let me explain.
Ritiky was a mislynch candidate its really bad for a mafia to give a present to a mislynch target because a present is the same as a role and he can clear himself like if ritoky kills mafia in the night. The only way gb is mafia and gives the present to him is if they are both mafia which still does not make any sense because they should just never mention it.
Like only a town is going to say they have a present because they can look scummy if it ends up in bad hands or used incorrectly. Like mafia almost always never says they have a present. Theres a reason only 2 of the 3 present givers came out because the third is mafia.
Oh and gb sent his present to ritoky like 3 hours after the game started. I dont think a mafia jumps the gun like that.
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On December 13 2014 14:22 batsnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 14:13 Holyflare wrote:On December 13 2014 14:07 batsnacks wrote:On December 13 2014 13:59 Holyflare wrote:On December 13 2014 13:58 batsnacks wrote:
@Vivax the other three people on that list who weren't Trfel you said were gut reads. I similarly don't have "thoughts" but gut feelings on those people. I am not convinced any of them are scum except for Trfel. I could skim through filters and find 1 townie thing or 1 scummy thing they did to support my gut read... like you probably did. But I'm saying it like it is. Gut says GB, FF, and templar are maybe town. I'm less confident about GB and templar, they're closer to null. Trfel is the only person on that list I feel strongly about. Why are you ignoring everything I say? I don't agree with lynching ritoky, which is most of what you've talked about today, and there was a great deal of talking about it. You haven't said anything today that I remember agreeing with. So I just left it alone. Yes that's not what I'm talking about: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?page=100#1986You also call me mafia after gb's "case" but don't even acknowledge any of what I/vivax/rsoultin have said to counter it. It looks like you're just freely tagging onto whoever is being scum read tbh I agreed with one of your reads, 27nb. Approx. half the game did. If I felt that strongly about you being mafia I would try a lot harder to get you lynched. I just think you might be mafia, and I have this idea that other people (not GB) might have that feeling too but are keeping quiet about it because they're scared or smth. I voted HTS because I couldn't remember a single thing she posted except for asking for MORE reading material. I might have voted tubesock for saying there are 5 mafia. I was the first person this game to point out Trfel is not himself. I still think Trfel is not himself. Vivax has said he doesn't think Trfel is himself, and Vivax coached him last game. So I was wondering if Vivax wanted to vote Trfel with me. He apparently doesn't because he has other "gut reads" to worry about or something.
Well this post actually makes me happy for a change. Kinda was thinking about the trfel thing too because of how he's been defending ff.
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I agree with you on one thing, SL.
I do get the feeling that ritoky and GB are the same alignment.
I also think, however, that you need to broaden your reads to more than just presents. (May sound funny coming from me I know) but I don't think you've talked about much else this game. If you have...I don't remember much of it.
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EPT
