EPTAre there any variations with a Coroner, who can check the cause of death (and poisons in bloodstream) of someone who recently died?
[I] TLLOLOTGDTM - Page 94
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
Are there any variations with a Coroner, who can check the cause of death (and poisons in bloodstream) of someone who recently died? | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
I am fine with poisoner saving themselves whoever thought that up | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 17 2014 02:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Nah medic and JK is probably OP. Assuming Alzadar is telling the truth. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On October 10 2014 00:33 Dandel Ion wrote: I should probably note that that is absolutely not required since I'm going to completely RNG the roles and alignments Does this mean that the roles that are in the game were randomized, or simply that who gets which role was randomized? i.e. was it equally likely that there be three Town Poisoners and no Medics/Cops as there being two Jailkeepers and a Medic, etc? | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
Claim your targets at deadline or something of the sort? | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
Essentially only a few kinds of setups are possible/balanced so while the roles people yet are completely randomized, the possible roles are only partially randomized between a few setups. 3 poisoners or multiple JK for example would be considered bastard hosting. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On October 17 2014 00:22 WaveofShadow wrote: Wtf are you talking about? Some things: I think it might almost be little better that you're probably not getting a check off, because there's likely a GF floating around. Also considering how scum have to play tonight I might as well just say, I think coma probably poisoned me N1. He had every reason to be afraid of my play and was giving me town reads if I'm not mistaken. I could be wrong but either way not like it matters. On the off chance we do have a poisoner, I can't say for certain that you should antidote me; it could be someone else or it could be better to just let me die if people are super suspicious of me still. TL;DR if Req is our poisoner you're fucked either way?  Screw you guys, no fun allowed. More seriously, there's a possibility I'm considering (which doesn't involve poisoner so hopefully either Coma's "parting gift" or our poisoner put a spanner in those works), that should be "viable" and different from Wave's (if I get it right). Because Wave's is so sure there's only one, it make me a bit nervous—not necessarily about you Wave. I'll explain tomorrow because I don't want to give scum ideas. I noticed several people also seem to get more sure in their reads or "how the game shouldbe played". Just pointing out that only considering optimal play isn't best. It should still considered the most likely as long as it isn't too convoluted, but vets should probably stay open to the possibility of "less optimal" play. -- Answering Wave's post on me (for the record mordek, I offered to answer after the first one you quoted, just noone followed up): + Show Spoiler + On October 17 2014 01:19 WaveofShadow wrote: Alaric should be higher up on the suspicious list right now for everyone. His play has been classically good town play, but for all the people who keep throwing suspicion on me because I'm capable of lying/manipulating as scum, look at Alaric's play. He very clearly knows how to play mafia and knows exactly what he is talking about, and so should so know what town likes to hear. I also remember saying I originally liked his vote dump on coma but now that coma flipped 3P, it doesn't mean anything anymore similar to Asmo' hammer. (essentially either of them could have thought they were voting town) I'll adress the "know the game" thing with that day 1 post from ketchup. I refrained from correcting him because I have no idea how these games, and especially day 1 go, so I didn't know how cheeky I could be, thinking I'd go back to hit day 2 once things cooled down. They actually went super "srs mode" and Ghandi got bandwagon'd precisely because he was cheeky so I dropped it altogether. I have some experience in the mechanics of the game, and I easily involve myself in stuff I find interesting so I kind of picked up on that, a huge difference however is that in my games of Werewolves fucking nobody utters a word and you pretty much RNG the lynches for 3+ days (20+ person games, they go long), another is that I know maybe 1-2 people outside of the game, that one only goes for this particular game, though (look up my filter Day 1, I mentioned near the end how it being an OT Mafia made me less confident in my reads). + Show Spoiler [the ketchup post that wasn't to be] + My answer to ketchup was built around the fact that in Werewolves I'm often the first one to talk to force it into action (kinda like Wave did with his first post, hence my adamant resolve that it couldn't be used against him)... which means I'm the day 1 lynch (werewolves goes N1-D1-N2-etc. sometimes there's a kill N1, sometimes not, depends on host). It's actually a kind of running gag because after a few sessions I started not saying a word to try and enjoy the game longer, and I still died (lynched or eaten) the first cycle. Always. At some point Cupid (basically creates a love triangle at the start of the game, the center dies all die, both others die he dies with them) chose me as the center, to "force" 2 people to defend me in the hopes that I'd live longer. Someone was eaten, another poisoned (equivalent to vigilante in werewolves), then they lynched me regardless, and my role meant I killed 2 or 3 adjacent people upon dying, so that masterful ploy killed 6 townies and only one werewolf the first cycle. Game ended fast. So based on that, I was gonna ketchup that and point out that I'd rather not get lynched Day 1, just to beak with tradition. Actually delaying the post to Day 2, and telling him "see, if I made that on Day 1 that'd have been suspicious/been called martyring and I'd probably have been lynched for it. So I avoided talking about my Day 1 issues to survive Day 1!" and made some joke about meta. You can get why I ended up not making the post, even as a light banter/fun fact thing. I won't argue that I haven't been picking up bits here and there as time went, though, and I'm definitely more experienced now than at the start (feel I learnt a bunch from your caricatural "frustrated" play and the Night 1 exchanges between you and particularly Tolkien. I didn't take it for myself because I'm bad at this "trolling" style and it'd have been super different from my first cycle play, but I used a lot of what it taught me in my reads). Look up the post where I explain why I vote Moonbear ove Ghandi, then my Day 2 Soniv vote over Ghandi. My reasoning ends up being similar but I'm a lot more confident Day 2. Same with how I went on Coma for good, compare that to both (earlier) times I went on Asmo, and first time on Coma. (Soniv is still a fucker though. Do you always play like that, or was it because of your blue role that you wanted not to stick out too much?) -- About ComaDose, I stand by my vote and reasoning by the way. He was very suspicious to me, and with reason—I didn't consider 3rd party at all, and I don't know how it usually play out, but with that setup and the way the game went I believe him alive was more detrimental to town than scum (vets can correct me if I'm wrong? My impression anyway), and I'll state again that I'm fine with his death and although not scum I consider it (and my earlier pressure against him and investigating) a sucess. -- About Requizen (I'm not Soniv but screw it, cf. the 3rd argument for my Soniv vote). When I said it being an OT Mafia didn't help me, Requizen (and to a lesser extent Moonbear, but we dun goofed Day 1) was the exception, because he's so sensitive (in general, not in an "easily offended" way) at times, impulsive and he opens up so much in OT that he's one of the easiest to anticipate, and as such detect whether he's faking or not. Also because his choice of VN made me think he'd not only like, but probably be good at gathering hints and making cases. And he proved me pretty right in that. You're being unreasonable Wave. I'm not going to try and get why (stuff on your plate, first cycle went wrong that demoralised you, fake frustration, whatever), but Req has actually made very well thought-out posts and analysis. When you can go against him, it's usually not for the way he reads the situation or his conclusions, but his premises (like that "at least 2 of Soniv/Ghandi/Wave are scum, he started with wrong premises (notably concerning you) but the post itself and the analysis based upon that premise was very well crafted). If you could for just a moment replace every "Wave" mention in his posts with "Mr. Karate" and give them a read again, I'm sure you wouldn't be as flustered, and you'd actually like most of what you read. It's true that Requizen may be wrong in where he ends up, but that's because he's cannon without crew, if you will. That's not to say he has to be manipulated, but as most of us he isn't experienced in this game, even if he picked it up super fast after Day 1. So sometimes he points at the wrong direction (like when he assumed you could potentially all be scum), but it's also part of your job (as a vet more experienced than us, assuming you're town) to guide him. 'cept you've just thrown his whole posts/reasonings out the window just because they had bad premises and talked about you. When you could just have corrected the premises and discussed about it. The caveat to that very lauding post is that I blindly trusted my opinion of Req (from OT and stuff) that he wouldn't be good at leading people astray with how "whole" his personality is, to put him as town. Since I've reached the conclusion that at least one person is not just being indecisive, but actively lying and playing with us I try not to believe Req as blindly until I decide who it is, even though my instinct tells me he's reliable. -- Finally, Asmodeus. Said I'd come for Coma and you, and he's dead (and he made me more confident about my reads at that). You pretty much did bandwagon/sheep someone -> get pressured -> do a pretty darn good job of building a case and being "autonomous" when you apply yourself to it -> mislynch -> you "lose confidence in [your] reads" and start sheeping until the cycle starts again. When there were both Soniv and Ghandi you also said (while voting Soniv) that Ghandi was your other read. You mean, only both accused? The one you vote against and the one everybody's been leaning against from (almost) the start? Well that'd bold. And you make excuses that "I'm not confident" or "I'm not sure" whenever you get asked, you had to be asked twice (and the second time by Wave iirc, who's been leading a lot and thus has actual traction) to give two super-safe reads. You weren't as non-commital as ComaDose still, so I let you off, and your cases were very well done one, so I got swayed by them both times. However, like I just said above about Requizen, that's not enough to convince me anymore (especially after both turned out to be duds). Is Ghandi still your main read? Do you plan on pushing him for Day 3? Or has someone else taken his place since (and if so, who)? Don't be wavering. Mordek, did you imply what I think you implied? | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Exactly why I said I wouldn't be satisfied with. It's not Day 3 yet but I'd still like you to answer my post Asmo. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
Also Alaric could you condense that monstrosity a little bit? I can honestly say I have e no idea of the final messages I'm supposed to get from that. Some tl;dr on each point, if you please. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On October 17 2014 04:05 WaveofShadow wrote: Where did Asmo post? Also Alaric could you condense that monstrosity a little bit? I can honestly say I have e no idea of the final messages I'm supposed to get from that. Some tl;dr on each point, if you please. tl;dr don't trust Mr. Karate | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Answer to you: I came to DotA 2 from LoL, I have a itsy-bits of mechanics but other than that wtf is going on in this game guys, it's not what I knew at all. Some sidetracking about a joke/anecdote I ended up not doing. An addition about how I still believe my gut call on Coma was right because in that setup serial poisoner's more dangerous than useful to town (asking confirmation from Soniv or you, but that's the impression I got), plus his play was def. suspicious. About Req: Just replace "Wave" with "Takuma" in each of Req's posts and re-read them. Req is doing work with his data analysis, it's just he collects data wrong (like when he assumed you/Ghandi/Soniv could all be scum, or that you+soniv scum wouldn't end with a bus with how hard you went at it). If you could drop some salt and manage, you to point out his mistakes without throwing the whole post out the window (while snickering), and him to take the criticism without lashing at you, that'd help us a ton. Caveat: my read on Req relies primarily on that I used to think him 100% unable to put us on strings. I'm more paranoid now that I think someone is making bold lies (and potentially being real good at it) so I dropped the 100%. About Asmo: Uh... I guess I finally got at what you said when you called him a "politician"? Not sure how to make it shorter. I want him to be more assertive because so far you can sum up his play with sheepping -> called out hard -> suddenly solid case on a townie -> "I'm so bad, I'm never gonna make reads ever again" and back to sheeping when towniness is revealed (thanksfully not through death for Soniv), and I don't think it brings much. (Well it actually brings a ton when he makes a case, but after two sniper rounds in the wrong direction I'll be a more skeptical this time if he makes a third case.) | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 17 2014 04:17 Alaric wrote: Uh, I'll try. Answer to you: I came to DotA 2 from LoL, I have a itsy-bits of mechanics but other than that wtf is going on in this game guys, it's not what I knew at all. Some sidetracking about a joke/anecdote I ended up not doing. An addition about how I still believe my gut call on Coma was right because in that setup serial poisoner's more dangerous than useful to town (asking confirmation from Soniv or you, but that's the impression I got), plus his play was def. suspicious. Correct. Any KP that is not town controlled is not in town's favor | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
(Fun fact: during a project evaluation meeting today my ex-boss mentioned how I should work on being more concise. ^^') | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On October 17 2014 04:09 jcarlsoniv wrote: don't take it personally Alaric, Wave didn't read my posts either Fuck you son (4) I read them and I read Alaric's. | ||
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