EPTNewbie Mini Mafia LIX - Page 19
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
On October 09 2014 02:52 Superbia wrote: If you were looking to pressure loaf with your push, then why did you give abuse shit for pushing on loaf "too hard" (i.e. pressuring him)? Moreover, what did you get from pressuring loaf? I'm genuinely curious. The argument is bad because it relies on the fact that loaf planned the entire thing ahead. I believe loaf was being genuine when talking about being mistaken and having a similar game as to the one he thought this was, you believed the same. As such, your argument falls apart. Then who is the mafia zen? What did you find out with your analysis? You reach 0 conclusions and you have effectively put 0 pressure on loaf. There are a few differences between breshke's post and yours: - Breshke acknowledges the current push already going on. - Furthermore, you obviously either lied or rushed your push on loaf. Now, I'm not reading breshke as town, but I am reading you as more scummy. Hence I'm pushing and voting on you. What do you even think of breshke? I have dropped several indirect hints as to why I think loaf is town. Most were directed at rad, iirc: Mafia will almost never try to make such a play. The risk is way too high and the chance of getting a reward is way too low. Read my filter. Now, zen, you say that you pushed on loaf to pressure him. Which leads me to two questions: 1) Why did you give abuse shit for pushing on loaf "too hard" (i.e. pressuring him)? 2) What did you get out of pressuring loaf? 3) What kind of pressure did your post add? Now you are just outright lying. I never gave abuse any shit pushing loaf too hard, just that i simply do not believe early votes are good. What i basically wanted from loaf was a response, see how he reacted. That was not what my argument was, did you even read it? It seems like you are doing exaclty what you say im doing. My argument was that loaf had as defense that he was town because he mentioned a quick townwin: On October 07 2014 15:13 loafery wrote: I first thought there was 5/6 blue roles. I thought it was easy game. ff showed me it wasn't so. I admit my mistake and ff retracts his suspicions. If I were scum why would I even think of getting an easy win. I would havent mentioned anything at all. You're coming off as very over reactive to my posts. It's all good but I have done nothing wrong. He failed to realize that mafia will ofcourse try to look as town as possible and also appear to want a townie win. This is pretty basic stuff, and since he had played mafia before i called him out on this faillogic. Now it seems like you are just throwing big statements around and trying to look good. Obviously i think mafia is the one im voting for, though i will post my read on another player i find scummy before deadline. Also, please tell me why you are reading me as more scum than breshke? Its very scummy of you to simply say that you find me more scummy than him without an explanation. | ||
Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
Dusts: *tumbleweed* Rad:town, actively looking for more scum even while there's a wagon. Super:null/town, the big instigator of the wagon. No counter wagons and a rock solid argument. Why null/town and not town? Weird gut feelings that i can't explain. Abuse:null, while he pushed loafery and looked town because of it, it took him quite some time to unvote and consider the current wagon. Elvis!'s actions don't help him either. Elvis:scum/null, i hope he posts more, currently he has no vote and was only voting on loaf because he had pressure Breshke: scum, pretty similar story to zen-man, i think this is a really good person to look at after the flip, or even right now. I would but i have already screwed this post up many times. Thanks phone. Everyone else: null or i don't remember your posts | ||
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Elvis!
Germany396 Posts
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
Fecalfeast (1): The_Zen_Man (4): Superbia, Fecalfeast, dusts (0): loafery (0): Superbia (2): loafery, The_Zen_Man Not voting (2): dusts, Elvis! Currently, The_Zen_Man is set to be lynched. Deadline is Wednesday, Oct 08 9:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) (in ). Voting is mandatory! If there are errors, please let us know. + Show Spoiler [Vote counter log] + VOTE: abuse voted loafery (post) VOTE: Elvis! voted loafery (post) VOTE: Superbia voted The_Zen_Man (post) VOTE: Fecalfeast voted The_zen_man (The_Zen_Man) (post) VOTE: Breshke voted The_Zen_Man (post) VOTE: loafery voted Superbia (post) WARNING: Breshke changed vote without unvote (post) VOTE: Breshke unvoted The_Zen_Man (post) VOTE: Breshke voted Fecalfeast (post) VOTE: Breshke unvoted Fecalfeast (post) VOTE: Breshke voted Fecalfeast (post) VOTE: abuse unvoted loafery (post) VOTE: Rad voted dusts (post) VOTE: The_Zen_Man voted Superbia (post) VOTE: Rad unvoted dusts (post) VOTE: abuse voted The_Zen_Man (post) VOTE: Rad voted The_Zen_Man (post) VOTE: Elvis! unvoted loafery (post) | ||
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Breshke
Australia3749 Posts
Zen you are about to be lynched you need to leave us with some info who are you reading scum other than superbia as much as rad doesn't like lists a list wold be fine. | ||
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abuse
Latvia1942 Posts
On October 09 2014 05:22 Fecalfeast wrote: Zen man:scum, everyone has said it already, if someone wants a post specifically from me about zen i can do that. My vote stays put as of now. It is starting to worry me that nobody is vehemently against the wagon, though. Dusts: *tumbleweed* Rad:town, actively looking for more scum even while there's a wagon. Super:null/town, the big instigator of the wagon. No counter wagons and a rock solid argument. Why null/town and not town? Weird gut feelings that i can't explain. Abuse:null, while he pushed loafery and looked town because of it, it took him quite some time to unvote and consider the current wagon. Elvis!'s actions don't help him either. Elvis:scum/null, i hope he posts more, currently he has no vote and was only voting on loaf because he had pressure Breshke: scum, pretty similar story to zen-man, i think this is a really good person to look at after the flip, or even right now. I would but i have already screwed this post up many times. Thanks phone. Everyone else: null or i don't remember your posts Did you, like, even read any posts posted today? | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
On October 09 2014 05:16 The_Zen_Man wrote:Now you are just outright lying. I never gave abuse any shit pushing loaf too hard, just that i simply do not believe early votes are good. What i basically wanted from loaf was a response, see how he reacted. On October 08 2014 05:06 The_Zen_Man wrote:I do however not share all of abuses opinions and do believe that he is pushing for loaf too hard. If you want to pressure someone, you pressure them. If other people are pressuring them, you should be happy. On October 09 2014 05:16 The_Zen_Man wrote:That was not what my argument was, did you even read it? It seems like you are doing exaclty what you say im doing. My argument was that loaf had as defense that he was town because he mentioned a quick townwin: Here's the thing. I've said this before, but loaf's right. You're not going for such a play as scum. That shit is very rare and will probably only ever be done by an utterly bored veteran. The defense also makes sense if you agree that the whole "did not read OP well enough" and "had a game with 20 million roles before" (not exact quotes) was genuine. Care to give an answer to my 3 questions? | ||
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abuse
Latvia1942 Posts
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
On October 09 2014 05:22 Fecalfeast wrote: Zen man:scum, everyone has said it already, if someone wants a post specifically from me about zen i can do that. My vote stays put as of now. It is starting to worry me that nobody is vehemently against the wagon, though. Most of voters right now are on my townlist, I'm happy. But if he flips town I'm going to have to re-evaluate the whole game. At the moment I'm living in the fairy dream world in which zen's going to flip scum and we win on d2. | ||
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
On October 09 2014 03:24 Rad wrote: @The_Zen_Man Your entire case against superbia is based on this idea that he didn't give reasons for why he thinks loaf is town. You try to downplay his efforts by claiming he did nothing of worth until he made a case. This is an extremely easy angle to attack him from and it completely misses the point. The objective for town is to FIND THE SCUM. Scum hunt first and foremost, theorycraft after. How do you think scum hunting works? I'll tell you... by looking for areas of suspicion and following up on them. What have you done the entire game? 1. Piggy backed on other people's ideas. No need for me to go into the whole abuse/loaf aspect, as it's been beaten to death already. Your main argument now though is just copying me from early game: He's already answered that indirectly. It's hard to see if you're not engaged in the thread, and scum are most likely to be disengaged. (I'm reading the thread updates as I write this and I see Super has just pointed this out, even using similar terminology. Whatever, someone will jump on this as me piggy backing on super but it explains why I dropped that pressure on him so... point stands) 2. Constantly explain what town is supposed to do. Seriously, this is the bulk of your posts. See: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=WIFOM 3. 0 scum hunting This is the kicker for me. I pointed this out before and urged you to interact more, but it hasn't changed. You still haven't scum hunted, only theorycrafted. Theorycrafting is the easy part, especially in newbie games. Scum hunting is difficult and requires pushing and adjusting to the situation as it changes. You've just sat back and passed judgement while complaining that there's no content and claiming that people who are scum hunting are scummy for it. I was waiting for you to come back into this thread and drive the conversation before making my conclusion. Instead you've made a terrible case and done nothing else. ##Vote: The_Zen_Man Ok, finally got around to talking about this post and rad in general. First of all, you seem to have not read my case, as it is based on much more than that one single point. I had several points you seem to convenietly ignore, namely the breska angle that super and you just seem to dodge or try to brush off without really giving an answer. Funny how you can miss aspects in threads and get no criticism, but i get it for every little thing i do. It's very scumlike to do this, ignoring facts to suit your need. Town seeks the truth, scum seeks stuff to fit their picture better. Now, you say that the objective of town is scum hunting and looking for areas of suspicion. That's exactly what I was trying to do with my posts on loaf. Whether you say i copied or not, the fact reamains that i did have my own argument. Moving on, I had one question that was really not answered that you had a variety of, and this makes me scum? This was btw a very small part of my case, not even the main point, but as it seems to be, you get a free pass on not reading the whole thread. Now, on to the part where i think you look scummy, it begins here with you saying that I constantly explain what town do, which is a WIFOM. But when super does it you convenietly look the other way from it, and yes he has done it many times. Looking the other way one place while calling someone out for that same thing is very scum behaviour. You then go on to tell me that I should do more scum hunting, while you are one of the ones that have probably done the least of that this while game. Most of what you did was basically calling others to be more active and scum hunt, then basically sit back and let others post cases until very close to deadline you post this. Also, I find this very interesting: Why are you so hell bent on getting the votes for zen at this stage? Why is your vote not enough while we wait for zen to reply? You say that it is better to wait and hear my response before making a decisions, but just a few posts after, before I had come back yet, you decide to go against yourself and FoS me. This sudden change is really scummy, and I'm not sure why you would suddenly just flip your stance like that. Probably because the case on me got wind and you wanted to score some town points with the ones that had supported the case. | ||
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abuse
Latvia1942 Posts
On October 09 2014 05:35 Superbia wrote: Most of voters right now are on my townlist, I'm happy. But if he flips town I'm going to have to re-evaluate the whole game. At the moment I'm living in the fairy dream world in which zen's going to flip scum and we win on d2. so if he flips scum you won't reevaluate the game? are you so completely sure that breshke is the 2nd scum? | ||
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Superbia
Netherlands8889 Posts
On October 09 2014 05:44 abuse wrote: so if he flips scum you won't reevaluate the game? are you so completely sure that breshke is the 2nd scum? No, but I won't have to re-evaluate my town circle if he flips scum. At least not tomorrow. | ||
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Breshke
Australia3749 Posts
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Breshke
Australia3749 Posts
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Elvis!
Germany396 Posts
I will insert more quotes that support this asap, but due to real life issues I had less time than I thought I would. My current read for the most scummy is: Breshke: ##Vote: Breshke He does post an amount which is not suspiciously low, but moslty in a very short manner each time. Even though he asks some questions, there rarely is follow-up, more analysis or just generally use of that information. I see this as a subtle way to try to hide being mafia, shallowly you appear non-mafia, since you can see him posting and gathering some information, but I think what he's doing is more to confuse town than to hunt scum. Which is what we're here for. The only way he "contributes" is with a fishy vote on Zen, which Superbia and the surrounding characters have a decent case on, but Breshke was merely a small time before the vote, defending Zen against accusations. A townie would adress why, and in detail, one should not only follow a bandwagon, insert personal thoughts about the case and support it. He simply jumps on something he as a mafia knows is not mafia, is a good scapegoat and has a decent case against the person. This is the perfect opportunity for him as mafia to strike and hide. Then there is multiple posts which insert chaos, which according to this analysis (yes abuse I too have read this one - it's really good), is exactly mafia's role. To sum it up: How do I think I detected him? He not only does donkey things like loaf, but things that stop us from scumhunting. He jumps on a bandwagon that even though it has a decent background, might be close but not quite(read: a lot of people are getting read as scum at the moment, most people vote on Zen because to them he appears a little more scummy than the rest, but not in a crazy substantial way). my current list: abuse + superbia go the most into scumhunting. I like how they don't fear to be in the spotlight and get their cases forward(!!!). They share position 1 - would not put them in my town circle quite yet, waiting for cases on more people (which they announced already) to happen. Rad is not as intense in doing so as they are, but I don't see scum indicators and few town indicators, so he's on position 3 in my townPosition 3 - leans town FecalFeast for me at the moment is null, I can't really say what his actions indicate the most, will look at him in more detail later when the next big thing happens. He does not seem dangerous or disruptive, so he's not a scum read for me. position 4 - null. dusts: -- no position --.  loafery for me at the moment is just making a whole bunch of weird actions which might or might not be intended to be disruptive. Since some of his things are more scum-like than town he is Position 5 - leans scum. Zen for me still is the second worst of them all, but for me I think Breshes disruptive and chaotic actions are more clear. He might be the second scum with breshke, since he isn't as obvious as Breshke for me atm I'll not vote for him. Position 6 - leans into scum like a drunk guy on a fit girl. Breshke - see above. | ||
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
Very scummy: Super, Rad Scummy: FF, loaf Null: Elvis, Dust, breshke Townie: Abuse Reasoning: I agree with what other write about FF, thought i don't have time to write more specifics. The Null people really haven't given me much to go on. Abuse i read as town because of how he really started posting content in a time when basically no one else posted anything of worth. The rest are the same reasonings as my previous posts. | ||
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
dusts (0): Breshke (1): Elvis! Fecalfeast (1): The_Zen_Man (4): Superbia, Fecalfeast, loafery (0): Superbia (2): loafery, The_Zen_Man Not voting (1): dusts Currently, The_Zen_Man is set to be lynched. Deadline is Wednesday, Oct 08 9:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) (in ). Voting is mandatory! If there are errors, please let us know. + Show Spoiler [Vote counter log] + VOTE: abuse voted loafery (post) VOTE: Elvis! voted loafery (post) VOTE: Superbia voted The_Zen_Man (post) VOTE: Fecalfeast voted The_zen_man (The_Zen_Man) (post) VOTE: Breshke voted The_Zen_Man (post) VOTE: loafery voted Superbia (post) WARNING: Breshke changed vote without unvote (post) VOTE: Breshke unvoted The_Zen_Man (post) VOTE: Breshke voted Fecalfeast (post) VOTE: Breshke unvoted Fecalfeast (post) VOTE: Breshke voted Fecalfeast (post) VOTE: abuse unvoted loafery (post) VOTE: Rad voted dusts (post) VOTE: The_Zen_Man voted Superbia (post) VOTE: Rad unvoted dusts (post) VOTE: abuse voted The_Zen_Man (post) VOTE: Rad voted The_Zen_Man (post) VOTE: Elvis! unvoted loafery (post) VOTE: Elvis! voted Breshke (post) | ||
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Breshke
Australia3749 Posts
On October 09 2014 05:51 The_Zen_Man wrote: Here is a list of what i think of the people here: Very scummy: Super, Rad Scummy: FF, loaf Null: Elvis, Dust, breshke Townie: Abuse Reasoning: I agree with what other write about FF, thought i don't have time to write more specifics. The Null people really haven't given me much to go on. Abuse i read as town because of how he really started posting content in a time when basically no one else posted anything of worth. The rest are the same reasonings as my previous posts. Agree with others who write about FF? So do you mean rad your top scum read or me because i don't think my push was that good so im surprised either way here. | ||
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Elvis!
Germany396 Posts
On October 08 2014 14:51 Breshke wrote: Im here Rad, i disagree with you i think lists can be useful as it makes it hard for mafia to leave their partners out of their reads. Why don't you put one out there then? A lot of people did. | ||
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