• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 11:28
CET 17:28
KST 01:28
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3
Community News
Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon!18$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship5[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage3Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win9
StarCraft 2
General
Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon! RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage Practice Partners (Official) [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION [ASL20] Grand Finals Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Career Paths and Skills for …
TrAiDoS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1686 users

World Heavyweight Championship mafia III - Page 3

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 05 2014 07:02 GMT
#894
On August 05 2014 13:39 Tehpoofter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2014 13:16 goodkarma wrote:
While I'm waiting for you thought I'd add this super-applicable quote:

On June 25 2014 06:28 Tehpoofter wrote:
On June 25 2014 06:26 Teemursu wrote:
On June 25 2014 06:25 NydusHerMain wrote:
It's just as hard to read Tehpoofter in forum mafia as it is to read him in video mafia it appears -_- .... I'll have a large writeup in about 2 hours. I want to just make one big post with what I think about everyone in general

Great. More posts that I don't want to read.


If you don't like reading posts you're in the wrong place. That would be like playing video mafia without anyone talking. This is wolfy teemu, don't be lazy.


I said I hadn't read not that I'm not going to I'm doing it while doing other things.


o rly?

goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 05 2014 07:48 GMT
#919
Apparently kush is a polygamist.
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 05 2014 07:50 GMT
#923
In any case I need some sleep.

You better have something tomorrow when I wake up poof.
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 05 2014 18:49 GMT
#1302
The lynch deadline is the worst in the history of deadlines...

Marv wants Vivax dead? I'll sheep that.

##Unvote
##Vote: Vivax


While I still like lynching Poof it kinda is a policy lynch at this point. Not sure how much more I should have expected from the guy...

Vivax, on the other hand, has done some substantially scummy stuff.

On August 05 2014 21:26 kushm4sta wrote:
abou vivax:
Try to understand this post if you dare (I don't suggest it). I spent about 5 minutes on it reading it again and again. So far I think it has something to do with goodkarma being scummy because he didn't read the scumminess of his two scum reads equally, and that is scummy because of some other reason I can't understand. But the fact that he thought through all this shit makes him town.

+ Show Spoiler +
On August 05 2014 00:44 Vivax wrote:
It seems there is a strong difference in Goodkarma's play regarding his two scumreads. I feel he ended up focusing much more on Haru than on WoS, and that after criticizing Haru for nullreading WoS for that.

Like, the one thing GoodKarma had to expect in his opinion was that Haru would scumread WoS with a -1.
I think that if they wanted to nullread somebody as opposed to scumreading him, then scum would prefer ścumreading the townie and null reading the other scum.

If that's what GK might think, too, then he must just feel as strongly scummy about Wave than he does for Haru, cause just then nullreading WoS might show a scum motive.
However all we are left with Goodkarma vs Wave is:

Show nested quote +
Your scumread and dunno read have been pretty active in thread. Kinda curious you haven't had anything to say to them.


WoS wrote this before GK posted that:
Show nested quote +
Scum: Haru---his defense of me is awkward and he immediately backtracks on it when given an out. Rubs me in completely the wrong direction


So they both scumread the same guy, Wave says what he found scummy about Haru, but GoodKarma still asks him that.
Besides, I don't really like the reason WoS is using there for scumreading Haru, so I'm surprised Goodkarma wouldn't also try to get more interactions with WoS aside from that sort of loaded post.



This quote you used Kush was constructed 8 hours after my last post of the night. Don't you find it a bit odd that he'd call me out for not talking to Wave when I was clearly asleep?

I seeded suspicions in this post, but given Vivax didn't ever come back I never followed up.:

On August 05 2014 11:19 goodkarma wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2014 10:46 Vivax wrote:
On August 05 2014 10:32 goodkarma wrote:
On August 05 2014 10:19 Vivax wrote:
Not sure yet, waiting for Wave to deliver something more substantial at the moment.

As for you, I have a hard time telling if you're just saying stuff to keep your story straight, you seem to try kinda hard to stay very consistent in your play but I'm not sure if it's me being tunneled or a fact.

Hence it would be helpful for me to know how you want to read Haru if you feel that he's super scummy on one and townie on the other hand. How do you get to the conclusion that his reaction was townie, for example?


I actually can't recall a game where you haven't thought I'm scum. You must really really hate my playstyle...

I've told you exactly how I've read Haru. How a person comes off towny is a semi-subjective thing. Generally when a person curses and screams at their tunneler in the way Haru did it's a town response. It's not a foolproof read by any means, but reads of this ilk have historically served me well. If you're a skeptic, just go with my latter reason (he easily could have just made a scumread up). It's totally valid here. Haru isn't a good lynch today.

And saying you don't know who you want to lynch when the thread's already ~40 pages, and the day's half gone is pretty weak. If you were forced to choose now, who would it be? This question really isn't that hard.


I would be lying if I said I had no scumreads. I'm simply not confident into them yet. Still in the process of deciding on you and WoS, and that's evident, so don't call my play "weak" just cause I don't go guns blazing on you guys, which is something you should actually value if you are town, since I give myself space for reconsideration.

Implying I'm doing something scummy with what I'm doing in your regards isn't something I would expect from a townie in your position to be honest. You see this guy talking to his persons of interest, but not dead set on lynching them, and the first thing coming to your mind is that the play is "weak"?


There's something to be said for still deciding, but there's also something to be said for sticking to safe stances. You haven't outright accused me of being scum, so I'm going to just assume you think I'm town.

Show nested quote +
On August 05 2014 10:50 Vivax wrote:
Btw what's the super scummy stuff you talk about in regard to Haru, when I look at your filter I see you in conversation with him and when I asked you, you said you found it a bit odd what he was doing.

Not really a post where you showcase A to B how what he was doing was super scummy so if you really feel that way it might be a good time to display what it is.


I've just told you Haru's probably town. Not wasting my time discussing this with you, as if it wasn't already obvious.


The guy has been "pressuring" people for a good portion of the game, but he's never really called people scum (until super-recently in a sheepish way). I find this really odd. The Vivax that liked to tunnel me in times past had no trouble doing so.

It's also worth mentioning that he hasn't really touched up on his old reads all that much. Especially me, which is significant given how much time he dedicated to pressuring me before.

In Marv I trust. Sheep sheep.

I really wish I could elaborate more, but this deadline is super awful for me. I'll try to pop in a little before the deadline but don't expect elaborate posts of any kind from me until evening.

One more thing.:

It should be considered that Haru hadn't really shared meaningful reads until his listpost. No matter how he presented his reads it would have looked scummy given all the time that had past. Keep that in mind.
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 05 2014 18:50 GMT
#1304
I hate to do this but I gotta go. Discuss my casepost please and good luck. I'll be back later.
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 05 2014 19:54 GMT
#1345
On August 06 2014 04:51 kushm4sta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2014 03:52 kushm4sta wrote:
On August 06 2014 03:49 Eden1892 wrote:
On August 06 2014 03:29 kushm4sta wrote:
On August 05 2014 22:40 gobbledydook wrote:
To those who are saying im suspicious:

Every game I have played so far I was mafia.

Guess how much I know about playing town. I'm trying, but just that I'm not up to your standards doesn't mean I'm scum. You can also compare this game to my 2 scumgames to see the difference.



GD, what is the difference, would you say?

also this is really your first towngame? because judging by your first two games here on tl, it seems like you have experience playing forum mafia somewhere else.

oh wow lol

no he's played town before on webdip i subbed into a game where he was town and got n1'd

to be fair he prolly means "every game on tl" but at the same time he's not new to being town...


everyone see this shit???
LAL it up
##unvote
##vote Gobbledy



yo hf and everyone who reads gobble town, read this exchange.
he's lying. he's mafia.


Give us gamelink, or it didn't happen.
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 06 2014 02:48 GMT
#1628
Vivax flip is super-frustrating. Regroup and do better tomorrow.
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 06 2014 02:58 GMT
#1632
On August 06 2014 11:50 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2014 11:48 goodkarma wrote:
Vivax flip is super-frustrating. Regroup and do better tomorrow.

Except if it wasn't Vivax, it would have been Haru, who you currently townread I believe?
What would you have done?


It's pretty obvious I wouldn't be voting my townread, if that's what you're asking... What exactly are you asking?
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 06 2014 03:49 GMT
#1641
On August 06 2014 12:19 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2014 12:00 WaveofShadow wrote:
On August 06 2014 11:58 goodkarma wrote:
On August 06 2014 11:50 WaveofShadow wrote:
On August 06 2014 11:48 goodkarma wrote:
Vivax flip is super-frustrating. Regroup and do better tomorrow.

Except if it wasn't Vivax, it would have been Haru, who you currently townread I believe?
What would you have done?


It's pretty obvious I wouldn't be voting my townread, if that's what you're asking... What exactly are you asking?

Never mind I misread and didn't pay attention to who you voted for. I thought you were super frustrated at the Vivax switch.

In any case, who is next for you then, GK?
This is all the time I've got to talk until tomorrow evening so let's try and have a discussion?


I honestly don't know. I'll be rereading everyone's filters tomorrow, assuming I'm alive. If you have someone specific in mind you'd like to bring up feel free to. But I'm taking a bit of a break today there's other stuff I'd like to get done and we can't exactly night lynch people anyway.
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 06 2014 23:38 GMT
#2126
/sheep confirmedtown mafiagod Kush

##Vote: Gobbledydook

The martyring stuff is pretty bad, not to mention your content in posted towngame looks much better than this one.


On August 07 2014 08:29 gobbledydook wrote:
Sorry this class im in prohibits technology so be back later


I'll be waiting.
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 07 2014 02:33 GMT
#2140
On August 07 2014 10:55 gobbledydook wrote:
give me a reason why I should try. ur all sucking kushs dead dick


On August 07 2014 11:14 gobbledydook wrote:
also marvs sheep worst sheep ever. hard defend me into sheeping kush like one page later with no reason other than trusting kush. Kush is good and hes confirmed town but hes not god, make your own decisions.

Would consider a marv lynch based on that alone.


From given up --> lynch Marv in 20 minutes... Interesting
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 07 2014 02:44 GMT
#2142
On August 07 2014 11:41 gobbledydook wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2014 11:33 goodkarma wrote:
On August 07 2014 10:55 gobbledydook wrote:
give me a reason why I should try. ur all sucking kushs dead dick


On August 07 2014 11:14 gobbledydook wrote:
also marvs sheep worst sheep ever. hard defend me into sheeping kush like one page later with no reason other than trusting kush. Kush is good and hes confirmed town but hes not god, make your own decisions.

Would consider a marv lynch based on that alone.


From given up --> lynch Marv in 20 minutes... Interesting


i finished raging


That was fast.
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 07 2014 02:58 GMT
#2145
On August 07 2014 11:50 gobbledydook wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2014 11:44 goodkarma wrote:
On August 07 2014 11:41 gobbledydook wrote:
On August 07 2014 11:33 goodkarma wrote:
On August 07 2014 10:55 gobbledydook wrote:
give me a reason why I should try. ur all sucking kushs dead dick


On August 07 2014 11:14 gobbledydook wrote:
also marvs sheep worst sheep ever. hard defend me into sheeping kush like one page later with no reason other than trusting kush. Kush is good and hes confirmed town but hes not god, make your own decisions.

Would consider a marv lynch based on that alone.


From given up --> lynch Marv in 20 minutes... Interesting


i finished raging


That was fast.


would you prefer me rage for 20 minutes or 20 hours
i can do 20 hours too


If you're done raging, then do something productive.
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 07 2014 03:03 GMT
#2146
On August 07 2014 09:52 WaveofShadow wrote:
Wow either kush has come a long long way, or I have severely underestimated him. Probably both.

Trying to decide if NK is frame attempt on people kush has found scummy (HF, onegu, Gd) but I don't think I've ever actually seen mafia attempt to frame anyone so I think I'm forced to discount it. Marv doesn't sheep lightly so I'm willing to bet he has faith in kush's reads for a reason.

I've re-evaluated some reads as I caught up.
Just a sec


This is where you left off. It would be a good spot to pick up from.
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 07 2014 03:03 GMT
#2147
FML wrong filter
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 07 2014 03:06 GMT
#2148
Anyway more. I'd like more.

And if you mean to try unvoting yourself would be good too.
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 07 2014 03:13 GMT
#2149
It amazes me how no one is ever on when I actually have time to post...

Lurking here for the next couple hours talk to me.
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 07 2014 03:24 GMT
#2153
On August 07 2014 12:19 Tehpoofter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2014 12:13 goodkarma wrote:
It amazes me how no one is ever on when I actually have time to post...

Lurking here for the next couple hours talk to me.


Hai QT who would you bang here?


Why would you ask for my townreads? In what way are they relevant for today's lynch?
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 07 2014 03:48 GMT
#2154
On August 07 2014 12:23 gobbledydook wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2014 00:19 marvellosity wrote:
the thing is, i really think kush is town, and he's been pretty damn handy at catching mafia lately, and he seems really really convinced that gobble is mafia.

it kinda feels like a leap of faith is called for.



Show nested quote +
On August 07 2014 00:28 marvellosity wrote:
why not? if someone's in good form and is convinced someone is mafia, that's kinda compelling.

i get tons of lynches through like that.

sheeping good skill to have tbh.


'Someone has been right lately so I'm just going to blindly trust him even though I'm not sold on his arguments'

Either there's a case of cognitive bias here where marv just remembers the times he gets lucky with his sheeping, or he's trying to back away from his read with a semi-plausible reason.

My question is, if he's town and doesn't think I'm town any more, why doesn't he give his own reasoning why I'm now scum other than 'kush thinks gobbledydook is scum'?


So just to be clear your proposed scumteam now is:

Haru, Poofter, Marv

And you feel okay about everyone else?
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
August 07 2014 04:55 GMT
#2156
On August 07 2014 13:11 gobbledydook wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2014 12:48 goodkarma wrote:
On August 07 2014 12:23 gobbledydook wrote:
On August 07 2014 00:19 marvellosity wrote:
the thing is, i really think kush is town, and he's been pretty damn handy at catching mafia lately, and he seems really really convinced that gobble is mafia.

it kinda feels like a leap of faith is called for.



On August 07 2014 00:28 marvellosity wrote:
why not? if someone's in good form and is convinced someone is mafia, that's kinda compelling.

i get tons of lynches through like that.

sheeping good skill to have tbh.


'Someone has been right lately so I'm just going to blindly trust him even though I'm not sold on his arguments'

Either there's a case of cognitive bias here where marv just remembers the times he gets lucky with his sheeping, or he's trying to back away from his read with a semi-plausible reason.

My question is, if he's town and doesn't think I'm town any more, why doesn't he give his own reasoning why I'm now scum other than 'kush thinks gobbledydook is scum'?


So just to be clear your proposed scumteam now is:

Haru, Poofter, Marv

And you feel okay about everyone else?


Those three are on my bad list, I haven't reread everyone's filter yet so I cannot say for sure they are OK. In particular I haven't quite got around to analyzing the cases on holyflare.



What about now? Promised thoughts on HF ready yet?
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 32m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 468
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 919
Jaedong 729
GuemChi 702
firebathero 383
Soma 374
Shuttle 247
Soulkey 165
sSak 136
Hyuk 124
Rush 96
[ Show more ]
Barracks 89
Mong 64
Backho 60
Hyun 55
Snow 55
sas.Sziky 40
ToSsGirL 29
Movie 16
Shine 15
scan(afreeca) 13
Terrorterran 10
Noble 5
Dota 2
qojqva2593
Dendi826
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr55
Other Games
singsing1985
hiko754
Mlord543
B2W.Neo523
crisheroes278
Lowko253
ceh9244
Fuzer 240
KnowMe155
ArmadaUGS108
XcaliburYe63
QueenE55
Mew2King49
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL229
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 26
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV465
League of Legends
• Jankos2761
• TFBlade646
Upcoming Events
LAN Event
1h 32m
OSC
5h 32m
Replay Cast
6h 32m
OSC
19h 32m
LAN Event
22h 32m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 10h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 17h
LAN Event
1d 22h
IPSL
2 days
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
BSL 21
2 days
Gosudark vs Kyrie
Gypsy vs Sterling
UltrA vs Radley
Dandy vs Ptak
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
LAN Event
2 days
IPSL
3 days
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
3 days
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025

Upcoming

BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.