On July 30 2014 08:44 JennyHell wrote: Okay, since most have given some kind of scum/not scum read, I'll just quickly name mine.
For day 1, I'm okay with Poofter, GB, Seeya, maaaaybe Teemu for not following the general crowd and actually questioning some things that were said and done. But it's a big maybe.
I'm on the fence with the rest of you. Pick up your game!
Why is seeya town? and who is the most mafia to you?
The reason I'm feeling ok with seeya for today, is because I liked the way he came out. Headstrong, scumhunting. He tested me to get a feel to where I was at, he gave reads and reasons behind those reads. He's let people know where his mind's at.
The one I felt most iffy about was lilwade due to how he pointed out the "role" mentioning from you. But seeing as he's the only one that's openly decided to go against you and actually acknowledging the world in which you could be bedding for a d2 fake claim I'm starting to feel a little bit more ok on him.
For obvious reasons I do not appreciate quiet people, but hopefully they will chime in soon.
So with the updated read that lilwade maybe isn't the scummiest any more, I will have to go back and read through all posts again to try to figure out who his possible mafia partners are, and if they've made themselves known.
I'll get back to you about an updated read on who is top mafia for me.
The reason I have Teemu as a maybe have nothing to do with the initial trolly posts. I liked that he questioned GB and pinged GB out for not giving us any information about what he considered himself having found out from the questions to me. But like you mentioned, he's not contributed with much more than that. So I was willing to let him pass for today, because I felt some others have made themselves bigger targets. Either by acting oddly, or not acting at all, cough meatpudding cough.
I'm glad you've finally written something and that you're showing you take the game seriously. I also like your initial thoughts and follow-up questions. I'm willing to put you on my town list for today for that. Or my "bang" list as Poofter so nicely named it.
I just went through GB's posts again, wondering what he actually brought to the table. Other than calling me and seeya mafia partners, without any explanation, along with the continuous comments that he will give his reads soon, all he's done is initiate the more serious discussions and then himself keep trolling about and stalking me on Twitter. Get your head in the game and give your reads on us already. It's really difficult to keep reading you town when you won't give reasons for your reads.
On July 30 2014 04:28 Seeyalater wrote: Hey y'all I'm awake and town! So that's good.
Still heavily sick with the flu though.
Also so far reading into the game I don't trust Teemu....
What makes you not trust a tea drinking walrus? Take me on a ride through your thoughts.
I don't know, he just seems a little TOO eager, you know what I mean? Like going off so hard to get people to like him(including cute pictures as well!) makes me not trust him too much. Not calling him mafia or anything, just my top scum from what has been happening here so far!
Are you his partner Jenny? :o
Bolded part is weird. He says that he is not calling Teemu mafia but that he is his top scum. Which means that Teemu is probably mafia by his point of view? I know that maybe Seeyalater is trying to say that Teemu is leaning mafia, but this also means he is considering him as mafia. From the way I think, this is Seeyalater trying not to be compromised by his reads, not drawing undesired attention. It's him trying to give a read but not giving a read at all. If you're calling someone scum, you're calling someone mafia. Period. If you say that he is your top scum but that you're not calling him mafia, you're saying nothing about someone. Just looks like a mafia attempt to show contribution. And it's in this post that he starts his interaction with Jenny. It doesn't say much with just it alone, but you can view from this angle: if both are scum, by asking this, he is distancing from Jenny, trying to put both on two opposite poles where if one is mafia, another cannot be.
On July 30 2014 02:41 GlowingBear wrote: No, really, let's try to actually start the game. Jenny, from your experience on daily mafia, what's the difference between scum!jenny and town!jenny?
This is a weird question to start the "actual" game with. What information are you expecting to get out of this question, specifically information that will help you figure out her alignment?
Scum!jenny would lie about how she plays either alignment, so to get any helpful information, you have to know she is town.
Kinda scummy.
If we keep kidding all day long it will lead to a mislynch. I'd rather ask questions like this so we can gather some information. You may consider it true or false. If you consider it false, you may analyse how consciously she is trying to keep the appearances she brought on her answer.
If I actually knew she was town, there would be no need to ask such question, Teemu
I like that you try to generate some discussion, but I think the question you asked is weird. What do you now think of her answer that she did give one? Too consciously trying to keep the appearance?
Nope, she actually said nothing on her post. It shows she is cautious to tell us about her play style, but it looks like mor of a town paranoia than scum hiding. It's fine that you find that weird, but what would be a scum motive behind that question. Think about it.
Do you expect people that are new to mafia in general to be able to say exactly how their play differentiate depending on what role they are when they haven't actually played enough to know themselves yet?
Like, if you were to ask seeyalater the same question that you asked me, you'd probably get an even more empty answer, because he hasn't played any yet.
It's not only what is said that is important, more so the way it is said. Or is that just me?
In this post by Jenny, you can see that she uses Seeyalater as example, in a way that, by defending her, she is also defending him against my accusation of saying nothing at all. Remember: this post alone is a weak reasoning. You have to consider all the interactions I'm going to post to get to the conclusion that they have a strong interaction.
On July 30 2014 02:41 GlowingBear wrote: No, really, let's try to actually start the game. Jenny, from your experience on daily mafia, what's the difference between scum!jenny and town!jenny?
This is a weird question to start the "actual" game with. What information are you expecting to get out of this question, specifically information that will help you figure out her alignment?
Scum!jenny would lie about how she plays either alignment, so to get any helpful information, you have to know she is town.
Kinda scummy.
If we keep kidding all day long it will lead to a mislynch. I'd rather ask questions like this so we can gather some information. You may consider it true or false. If you consider it false, you may analyse how consciously she is trying to keep the appearances she brought on her answer.
If I actually knew she was town, there would be no need to ask such question, Teemu
I like that you try to generate some discussion, but I think the question you asked is weird. What do you now think of her answer that she did give one? Too consciously trying to keep the appearance?
Nope, she actually said nothing on her post. It shows she is cautious to tell us about her play style, but it looks like mor of a town paranoia than scum hiding. It's fine that you find that weird, but what would be a scum motive behind that question. Think about it.
Do you expect people that are new to mafia in general to be able to say exactly how their play differentiate depending on what role they are when they haven't actually played enough to know themselves yet?
Like, if you were to ask seeyalater the same question that you asked me, you'd probably get an even more empty answer, because he hasn't played any yet.
It's not only what is said that is important, more so the way it is said. Or is that just me?
Hey don't try to throw scum at me sister! To answer said question, I'm pretty sure no matter the alignment I'd play similarly day 1 to try to figure out who the scummiest people are. Now what I'd do with said info is different though, because as you've noticed I've yet to actually call anyone mafia, just trying to notice who seems the scummiest so far.
Not sure if this is you being Mafia trying to throw off scum Jenny, or just a really defensive townie.
This is a response from Seeyalater to Jenny. Notice how weird and overreacted that post came. Looks like an unnatural way of distancing, again.
Now, after this distancing, look how easily he town reads Jenny: + Show Spoiler +
On July 30 2014 04:28 Seeyalater wrote: Hey y'all I'm awake and town! So that's good.
Still heavily sick with the flu though.
Also so far reading into the game I don't trust Teemu....
What makes you not trust a tea drinking walrus? Take me on a ride through your thoughts.
I don't know, he just seems a little TOO eager, you know what I mean? Like going off so hard to get people to like him(including cute pictures as well!) makes me not trust him too much. Not calling him mafia or anything, just my top scum from what has been happening here so far!
Are you his partner Jenny? :o
I really really like that you're giving reads, but I dislike the bolded.
I was trying to get a reaction from Jenny, who I've been on the fence about, but her recent reply above me seemed somewhat genuine, so I'd say she's my top town at the moment.
Do you know which post made him get this read?: + Show Spoiler +
On July 30 2014 02:41 GlowingBear wrote: No, really, let's try to actually start the game. Jenny, from your experience on daily mafia, what's the difference between scum!jenny and town!jenny?
This is a weird question to start the "actual" game with. What information are you expecting to get out of this question, specifically information that will help you figure out her alignment?
Scum!jenny would lie about how she plays either alignment, so to get any helpful information, you have to know she is town.
Kinda scummy.
If we keep kidding all day long it will lead to a mislynch. I'd rather ask questions like this so we can gather some information. You may consider it true or false. If you consider it false, you may analyse how consciously she is trying to keep the appearances she brought on her answer.
If I actually knew she was town, there would be no need to ask such question, Teemu
I like that you try to generate some discussion, but I think the question you asked is weird. What do you now think of her answer that she did give one? Too consciously trying to keep the appearance?
Nope, she actually said nothing on her post. It shows she is cautious to tell us about her play style, but it looks like mor of a town paranoia than scum hiding. It's fine that you find that weird, but what would be a scum motive behind that question. Think about it.
Do you expect people that are new to mafia in general to be able to say exactly how their play differentiate depending on what role they are when they haven't actually played enough to know themselves yet?
Like, if you were to ask seeyalater the same question that you asked me, you'd probably get an even more empty answer, because he hasn't played any yet.
It's not only what is said that is important, more so the way it is said. Or is that just me?
Hey don't try to throw scum at me sister! To answer said question, I'm pretty sure no matter the alignment I'd play similarly day 1 to try to figure out who the scummiest people are. Now what I'd do with said info is different though, because as you've noticed I've yet to actually call anyone mafia, just trying to notice who seems the scummiest so far.
Not sure if this is you being Mafia trying to throw off scum Jenny, or just a really defensive townie.
Sorry if it looked like I was trying to make you seem scummy. I was merely pointing out a flaw that I saw in the question he asked me. It really had nothing to do with you, just brought you in as a way to explain the way I viewed it.
What, WHAT in this post is so townie that completely changes you perception regarding someone? Do you get how odd this is?
Now, THIS IS THE MAIN POINT. Finding the odd contradictions from the first post I quoted from Seeyalater, I decided to push him on it (you can look my post on the nested quote). I've got a response. From him? NOPE, from Jenny! + Show Spoiler +
On July 30 2014 04:28 Seeyalater wrote: Hey y'all I'm awake and town! So that's good.
Still heavily sick with the flu though.
Also so far reading into the game I don't trust Teemu....
What makes you not trust a tea drinking walrus? Take me on a ride through your thoughts.
I don't know, he just seems a little TOO eager, you know what I mean? Like going off so hard to get people to like him(including cute pictures as well!) makes me not trust him too much. Not calling him mafia or anything, just my top scum from what has been happening here so far!
Are you his partner Jenny? :o
Lol wait. How can you not be calling him mafia or anything if you're saying he is your top scum read?
My guess, he starts off reading everyone as town, trying to figure out who is scummy enough to be mafia. So he's saying they're leaning mafia, or the things they said are questionable for a town.
Personally I start reading everyone as mafia, and see who proves to me they are towny and can be trusted enough to be in the town circle with me.
But that's just my guess. I could be wrong.
Why didn't she let him answer my question? More than that, why is she somehow defending him instead of helping me pushing him? His post was odd, we needed to get more information from him. She decides to explain his attitude instead of trying to discover if he got mafia motives! This, for me, is a signal of a possible scum trying to defend his partner. He didn't even got the chance to explain himself BEFORE she posts this.
This concludes my short case. I still prefer to Vote for meatpudding because we definitely need him talking. But if meatpudding comes ok to the thread and nothing more suspicious happens, I'm voting for one of these two.
Okay, let's respond to this case now.
I really like that you're trying to figure the game out, drawing conclusions and attempting to find connections between people. However, I feel that my posts have been taken way out west, when in fact they were headed east. Strangest analogy ever, but I'm sure you get the jist of it.
I obviously can't speak for seeya, and it's never been my intention to. The time you mentioned when I "defended him" and "didn't let him speak for himself" was just me being excited about the game and wanting to take part in every bit of it. To tell some things about myself and how I view the mafia world and draw conclusions and then compare it to what I guessed he did, because they seem to be two different ways to go at it and find mafia.
Now hearing that you felt I was disrupting town's way of scumhunting, I do see how it could be taken the wrong way and if you actually felt like you could have got more out of him if I hadn't put forth my thoughts and my guess, then please accept this apology. I'm sorry for hurting town play. If you're mafia and trying to throw scum, then suck it.
The reason he was mentioned by me earlier, when trying to explain myself (in what you went from saying is a "fair enough" answer to your question, to then saying I'm paranoid town and now calling me mafia), was because I know it's his first mafia game because I know him outside the game and therefore it was easy to take him as an example, since I don't know how much/little mafia the rest of you have played. The fact that you read waaaaaay too much in to that just makes me think you're overanalyzing something that wasn't at all that much of a big deal.
The case did bring a bit of insight to how you can really pick apart posts and from my personal stand point, knowing I am town, go the completely wrong direction. It's really sad that you're reading me wrong. I guess I will have to work on that town vibe.
As much as I'd love to call you scum for being completely wrong about me, I actually think you're trying to figure the game out, you're trying to make connections and I guess it's also slightly refreshing that you're willing to go against the stream and call me mafia. It shows that even though you're wrong, you're not afraid of being wrong and drawing attention to yourself by being different.
As for your points about seeya, I will have to go back through his posts again and see if I pick up anything of what you mentioned, because initially it just seemed like my pal seeya, trying to take a poke at me and see where I'm at.
On July 30 2014 06:20 JennyHell wrote: It seemed like he could see both sides of the coin. When Teemu and GB were discussing the question he gave to me, he explained why it would be a good question to ask, to gather information, and then he also at a later stage explained why it would be scummy to not share what he took from it. He's presenting two worlds which both may very well be true and not one of them seemed to be a fact to him. That makes me believe that he is not sitting on facts about who is mafia and who is not.
On July 30 2014 06:52 Tehpoofter wrote: Marry (Someone I'd ride until the end of time) - Tehpoofter and Jenny
Bang (I'd love 'em and leave em) - Glowingbear, RomanNumeralGuy, Lord Tolkien
Kill (I'd vote for them to no longer be alive anymore) - Lilwade, Teemu, Seeyalater
Too insignificant to appear on the list: Everyone else can get killed or die from the sorrow of being ignored by me.
May I ask for some info behind your reads?
Now that he substantiated his reads, what do you think of them?
Why is Banks town? How are you sure he just hasn't pocketed you yet?
Why is Banks town? Because he practically asked me to marry him, duh.. *fangirling*
On a more serious note though, reading Poofter is insanely difficult, because he's so good at this game. He's like this game incarnate. I'm never sure on him and he's one of the few people that I'd say find it a sport to pocket me. So I'm not sure he's not just pocketed me. I just feel like, today, he's been contributing more than some others have.
I didn't like his initial read on Tolkien, and how quickly he made the assumption even though Tolkien had yet to properly speak back then.
There was also one part of his info he gave about lilwade that I didn't really care for.
Like I don't care if anyone calls me mafia or disagrees with me because I know my alignment. I feel like thats how town play.
I agree that you shouldn't care overly much about it, but to say that's how all of town plays doesn't seem right. There are numerous people that want to portray town and make everyone see they are town. Say, if someone read me as mafia (like GB is currently doing), it's making me feel like he's willing to see things from a different perspective, but it's also making me feel like I haven't fully done my duty as town, which is to portray town enough to the rest of the town. So, what I'm meaning to say is that I get that that's how HE plays, but not everyone is going to feel the same way, even though they are town. The disagreeing part is just something that will happen, no matter what. It's part of social interaction in general and in a game like this it's just even more apparant that people will read things differently.
I obviously didn't agree with the way he viewed seeya, but like I stated in my previous post where I addressed the case against me and seeya being connected, I will have to go through his posts again before I can fully make a stance on that for day 1.
Also, something I don't like when people do, is when they go "I'm top town". I think it brings nothing but egotism/troll to the table and everyone who is town is no doubt seeing themselves at the top town, because they know what role they are.
Other than that, I liked his reads but I'd love to see another full update from him, seeing as it was ~14-15 hours ago.
Ok, reading through seeya's posts, the only things I think sticks out to being a bit contradictory and perhaps peculiar is:
My current bang marry kill are- Bang Jenny Marry(on the fence) Poofter kill-lurkers/afks
Followed by a change of heart
5. JennyHell- Strong posts with a lot of substance to them. Any time someone asks a question to her she responds in well thought out posts, and also gives her insight a lot when others give their thoughts about the game. Top town.
7. Tehpoofter- Lots of posts, good input, "friendly" demeanor, gives off a huge townie vibe. Almost too huge. Townie for today, might reevaluate further as game goes on so I don't find myself comfortably in his pocket. Although I'm probably just being extremely paranoid.
So Poofter fell off a little and I'm the new marry?
Other than that, I guess I just can't see what you guys see.
Teemu, you speak a lot about not being able to read people if they don't give information and you ask a lot of question, but honestly I'm having a super hard time reading you. Just because you need to read others doesn't negate the fact that these others need to be able to read you.
You keep mentioning having the longest filter but, is that really that important if half of it is fluff and jokes?
Something you did that I didn't really care for was talk about some Vivax thingie, which stopped me in my tracks and made me stare clueless, so thanks for that. Another thing you did that I didn't really appreciate, even though it was probably meant as a joke due to you being bored about the thread going slowly, was mentioning Poofter's QT and calling him a wolf in a jokey way.
Maybe I'm just too stuck up to see the fun in that.
Do you actually feel he is scum, and if so what lead you to believe so?
On July 31 2014 04:16 JennyHell wrote: Teemu, you speak a lot about not being able to read people if they don't give information and you ask a lot of question, but honestly I'm having a super hard time reading you. Just because you need to read others doesn't negate the fact that these others need to be able to read you.
You keep mentioning having the longest filter but, is that really that important if half of it is fluff and jokes?
Something you did that I didn't really care for was talk about some Vivax thingie, which stopped me in my tracks and made me stare clueless, so thanks for that. Another thing you did that I didn't really appreciate, even though it was probably meant as a joke due to you being bored about the thread going slowly, was mentioning Poofter's QT and calling him a wolf in a jokey way.
Maybe I'm just too stuck up to see the fun in that.
Do you actually feel he is scum, and if so what lead you to believe so?
I've asked questions, but I've also followed up with content.
If people have a problem reading me, they should probably be more active and have discussions with me.
If you honestly think half of my filter is jokes and troll, you probably haven't read the thread.
Idk really what to say about the Vivax and Banks thing...? Like I've already said that Banks has pretty weak calls for scum and pushed on him on his reasoning for those, and I feel like he is pretty scummy for it, knowing how good of a player he can be (like holy shit Banks, when you lead town as town, it's so fudging Godly). So yeah, I do think he is scummy and I have addressed him.in my reads.
Maybe we're just speaking 2 completely different languages here, but to me, you just seem extremely unwilling to state how you feel about things and instead just point to your filter list. Work with me here instead of being difficult!
I'm currently trying to go through it all again, seeing if there are groups formed somewhere. It's extremely difficult but I have some groups already in my head, I'll bring them up in another post.
To answer GB. My current 2 top scum is lilwade and DC, They were both active from the start but have fallen off. My guess, new players to mafia doesn't want to draw too much attention to themselves so they're trying to coast along without disagreeing too much with other people, which is what lilwade was doing with almost apologizing for his reads and I don't want use the word sheeping but agreeing with others reads without bringing much to the table himself. DC's reads have been fuller and more to point, "better"? if you will, than lilwade's, but I dislike his sudden lack of activity and hope he will chime in soon.
If I were to give a third it'd be meatpudding, for barely being here at all and the time he was here he didn't give much.
On July 31 2014 04:59 JennyHell wrote: I'm currently trying to go through it all again, seeing if there are groups formed somewhere. It's extremely difficult but I have some groups already in my head, I'll bring them up in another post.
To answer GB. My current 2 top scum is lilwade and DC, They were both active from the start but have fallen off. My guess, new players to mafia doesn't want to draw too much attention to themselves so they're trying to coast along without disagreeing too much with other people, which is what lilwade was doing with almost apologizing for his reads and I don't want use the word sheeping but agreeing with others reads without bringing much to the table himself. DC's reads have been fuller and more to point, "better"? if you will, than lilwade's, but I dislike his sudden lack of activity and hope he will chime in soon.
If I were to give a third it'd be meatpudding, for barely being here at all and the time he was here he didn't give much.
Save yourself the trouble and don't make any connections between people today.
Ok, I'll take you up on this. I will not make any connections I've found public, for d1, and then compare it to d2 if I live to see it.
On July 31 2014 06:23 Seeyalater wrote: I'm guessing being blue means being what is reffered to as a power role(cop, vigi, etc)?
Yes.
Rule 1: you do NOT talk about who you think are blues.
Rule 2: blues are just town with special powers, don't treat them as anything other than VT if you got that role, because the only thing shit like lurking does is give you away to mafia, and make you seem scummier to town.
Rule 3: you do NOT talk about who you think are blues.
Seeing as I'm the only one that haven't voted yet, I guess I'll put my vote out before people read too much in to it.
##Vote lilwade
I'd like to see way more from you in this game. Like said before you were active early on, then fell off, you said it was due to sleeping, I'm hoping that now you're awake we get to see more. The few short comments you have doesn't say much to me and I can't make much sense of them. Therefore you are my current vote. (Shall be noted you're not the only one I have this issue with during this game, but I felt you needed the push)
I get that people think Teemu is scummy and want to get rid of him, but I honestly don't see him as a good lynch for d1. He's been talking a lot, sure it's at odd hours due to timezone difference but at least he's contributing to the discussion and asking questions. There are others that have done waaay less and will be a much more difficult read later on, while Teemu will only be easier to read based on how much fluff he's throwing out on a whim. We will have more to base our reads on.
We will not have the same with meatpudding, lilwade, DC based on the amount of posts made and the quality of them.
EPT
