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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
On July 22 2014 11:00 batsnacks wrote: Are we really resorting to such measures just to make sure people read their roles? we don't have to, but there should be a rule against it. and if it is suspected that someone did not read their role, we should check scum qt to make sure they conversed with the scum team. And if they did not, they will receive a 5 game ban. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
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batsnacks
United States4466 Posts
On July 22 2014 11:34 kushm4sta wrote: we don't have to, but there should be a rule against it. and if it is suspected that someone did not read their role, we should check scum qt to make sure they conversed with the scum team. And if they did not, they will receive a 5 game ban. Really? I mean I can't comprehend why this is an issue at all. I know you think it worked for you last game but, seriously, this doesn't work. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
On July 22 2014 11:44 batsnacks wrote: Really? I mean I can't comprehend why this is an issue at all. I know you think it worked for you last game but, seriously, this doesn't work. no, not really I was kidding. Although I do think there should be measured placed against it IF people are doing it. A gentlemanly agreement also might be fine. Have you thought through the implications of not knowing your role or not knowing your scumteam? It makes you unreadable. If you are town, there's no downside there, because it is like playing normal. If you are scum, there is the upside of being unreadable and looking like town, with the ability to provide genuine scum reads. There is also the downside of unintentionally busing your team. If your reads are usually pretty bad then this downside won't even affect you. OK so for a good player there is the downside I mentioned. But what if two people on the scum team didn't look at their role pm? Hypothetically you would have two people on the scumteam acting like perfect townies, both town reading each other. What if no one read their role pm? You could have zero second days, because the outcome of the game would be randomly decided. If lynches are randomly chosen every day then scum wins most games. | ||
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batsnacks
United States4466 Posts
I could see how it could maybe make sense in a small setup with zero power roles on day 1 only but... even then people will probably just lynch you for it (I would). As soon as power roles enter into the picture by not reading your role you are risking throwing out all the tools your team may have for winning in exchange for... being unreadable? That doesn't make sense. | ||
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batsnacks
United States4466 Posts
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
Check how twitterverse game was completely dumbed down because CR didn't read the pm. People got him lynched and he was mafia. Now the game is spoiled because of that. It's like playing dota but picking no heroes. Of course people will lynch someone who does that. But it is not playing. They're just excluding someone who's spoiling the game. They are wasting a lynch they could have use on an actual read | ||
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batsnacks
United States4466 Posts
On July 22 2014 13:45 GlowingBear wrote: I don't get if you are ok with the rule against not reading the pm or if you don't like it. Check how twitterverse game was completely dumbed down because CR didn't read the pm. People got him lynched and he was mafia. Now the game is spoiled because of that. It's like playing dota but picking no heroes. Of course people will lynch someone who does that. But it is not playing. They're just excluding someone who's spoiling the game. They are wasting a lynch they could have use on an actual read I'm okay with it because I like to believe people learn from their (strategic) mistakes when they make them. We don't need the mods to enforce a perfect Nash Equilibrium level of play every game. | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
On July 22 2014 13:20 batsnacks wrote: Not reading your role is disadvantageous compared to reading your role no matter what alignments or circumstances. By not reading your role you are giving up every tool you have to win. I could see how it could maybe make sense in a small setup with zero power roles on day 1 only but... even then people will probably just lynch you for it (I would). As soon as power roles enter into the picture by not reading your role you are risking throwing out all the tools your team may have for winning in exchange for... being unreadable? That doesn't make sense. ok.. 1 no one would lynch you for it, because you don't tell anyone you are doing it. 2 the optimal way to do it is not look at your role pm d1, then near the end of n1 look at your role pm to see if you have a pr. if you are scum do not look at who is on your scumteam. I know you come from epicmafia where mechanics play a big role because games are so short. But I think games with longer days tend to be more about reads of players' behaviors and logic, which you can't do to someone who doesn't know their role/doesn't know their scumteam. | ||
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batsnacks
United States4466 Posts
On July 22 2014 14:21 kushm4sta wrote: ok.. 1 no one would lynch you for it, because you don't tell anyone you are doing it. 2 the optimal way to do it is not look at your role pm d1, then near the end of n1 look at your role pm to see if you have a pr. if you are scum do not look at who is on your scumteam. I know you come from epicmafia where mechanics play a big role because games are so short. But I think games with longer days tend to be more about reads of players' behaviors and logic, which you can't do to someone who doesn't know their role/doesn't know their scumteam. All of this seems like a really bad way of overcoming nerves. I don't come from epicmafia. Like, if you get nervous playing scum and you're worried you'll mess up (to the point where you don't even want to read your role PM), why not just play for real until you don't get nervous anymore? Are you going to keep relying on a dumb gimmick that will probably get you lynched just because you get nervous? inb4 protoss jokes | ||
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Vivax
22393 Posts
On July 22 2014 14:35 batsnacks wrote: All of this seems like a really bad way of overcoming nerves. I don't come from epicmafia. Like, if you get nervous playing scum and you're worried you'll mess up (to the point where you don't even want to read your role PM), why not just play for real until you don't get nervous anymore? Are you going to keep relying on a dumb gimmick that will probably get you lynched just because you get nervous? inb4 protoss jokes It's not just about nervousness but you can try to solve the game like a townie before finding out you're scum, at the risk of uncovering your teammates. The benefit is that you can play genuinely to your town meta if you feel that it's one that makes you easily look townie. | ||
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batsnacks
United States4466 Posts
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Vivax
22393 Posts
On July 22 2014 15:32 batsnacks wrote: Having less information doesn't help you win. It might help you not die day 1, maybe, if you're really uncomfortable pretending to be town. Playing scum with information lets you see things from an entirely different perspective, which is the weakness you try to find in order to catch them. I often find myself having a hard time trying to make up why a guy looks scummy cause in the back of my head I always know that what he's doing isn't scummy. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
It's playing against win con as mafia because you're supposed to be a team and the game is supposed to be balanced on nerves of knowing who your team is and thus town finds those connections. that's for mafia wincon not against. and neutral to your wincon if you roll town. That's why there has to be a special rule against it, or else the play to your wincon rule actually dictates that you should do it. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
On July 22 2014 17:33 kushm4sta wrote: that's for mafia wincon not against. and neutral to your wincon if you roll town. That's why there has to be a special rule against it, or else the play to your wincon rule actually dictates that you should do it. Ok fine. I meant it's against your win con as winning as a mafia team because you aren't playing the same game if it's just solo. Like i said the game was meant to be played knowing your team so that shouldn't be able to be worked around on the forum medium. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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Teemursu
Finland839 Posts
On July 22 2014 18:24 marvellosity wrote: tldr; read your role PM or you're a dickhead Yeah, this convo is boring the hell out of me. When's the game approximately going to start? | ||
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