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On July 22 2014 04:54 IAmRobik wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2014 04:40 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
I think people are overlooking the fact that Robik essentially started the wave of blue claims. How did I do this? I started the wave by counterclaiming? That's not starting a wave. That's just putting pressure on the claimant. MM1 thought he was dropping some blue cover. Everyone keeps overlooking the fact that town put the 4th and 5th vote onto our blue uncc'ed blue. If anyone tries to push the argument that mm1 was sincerely cc'ing BH, then you gotta check yoself
Don't claim blue. Ever. If you are town and not blue. Especially on D1. This is not video mafia and it will ALWAYS fuck up the town, always. There is a reason claims are either real or fakeclaims by mafia on forum games.
Like if the game is not a no-flip game and the real blue gets lynched you are the next 100%, then the town gets demotivated and all the posts after that will be "fuck stupid dumb townies i quit gg".
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Cause if he's mafia, I want him to crack. If he's blue, I want to put pressure on him so that mafia leave him alive in case they decide they'll get him mislynched. There's literally no reason not to try to take bullets for blues. It's really not a black-white thing. I want my blue alive as long as possible and if I can take a shot for him, then i'm going to do it.
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This isn't even like a topic that can be argued. It's black and white.
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On July 22 2014 05:16 IAmRobik wrote:
This isn't even like a topic that can be argued. It's black and white.
It is black and white. It is an awful play that cannot be justified or argued.
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And you'll fuck up the game if he gets lynched. And you'll probably fuck up the game if he can convince the town to not lynch him and gets shot (which makes you fakeclaiming). There is really no reason to do that. Just make up your mind if the claim is true and CONVINCe the town to either lynch/not lynch them (un-cc'd blue is really easy to convince NOT to be lynched). 
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On July 22 2014 05:15 IAmRobik wrote:
Cause if he's mafia, I want him to crack. If he's blue, I want to put pressure on him so that mafia leave him alive in case they decide they'll get him mislynched. There's literally no reason not to try to take bullets for blues. It's really not a black-white thing. I want my blue alive as long as possible and if I can take a shot for him, then i'm going to do it.
But you wouldn't vote for the blue you are trying to take a bullet for right?
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Also there is literally every reason to not take bullets for the blues because if they are bad it's better that some other (better - who can actually solve the game) player stays alive. Games are not won by blues, they are won by scumhunting, blues are just an unnecessary addition that might help the town if the actions are correct.
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On July 22 2014 05:17 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2014 05:16 IAmRobik wrote:
This isn't even like a topic that can be argued. It's black and white. It is black and white. It is an awful play that cannot be justified or argued.
No.
If no one leaves cover for a cop (for example) by leaving fake checks, then the cop can't safely leave his checks. If mafia kills the cop before the cop comes out, which will be easy if no one else is leaving any semblance of certainty about reads, then town doesn't have a boatload of information that they could readily have.
Additionally, if everyone leave fake checks, then some people can be given some extra slack and potentially cleared cause mafia should be blue hunting. Obviously, this can be leveled by the mafia, but then the cop stays alive for longer.
It's really black and white, and you guys are doing it wrong.
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...or you just can't read the motivation of the posts.
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If MM wouldn't of voted BH there would of been a good reason to say he was just tryin to take bullets, but he voted to lynch him after he had claimed and then said he was the cop and voted anyway zzzzz
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I think Robik would have a perfectly fine argument if he could keep control of the town and not actually lynch the blue player.
Like, it DOES make sense to me that you'd want scum to be confused. I get that, that could be awesome. But I think-- and maybe this is putting the cart before the horse-- that you should only try this kind of shenannigan if you can actually pull it off. Look, if neither me nor mm1 was lynched D1 and scum shot MM1 night 1, then that would be amazing, right? I think probably people would be saying "sick play mm1, very risky, but sick play" or something. Maybe.
But that's not what happened. MM1 and Robik, in pressuring someone who was actually the blue in order to fool scum or take a bullet or whatever, in fakeclaiming as VTs, lost control of the town (or perhaps just screwed up) and I ended up getting lynched.
I'm not gonna say that the strategy that Robik went for, or MM's choice to CC me "100% serious"ly, and vote me, was inherently a bad strategy that couldn't ever work.
I will say that this game, it resulted in the only blue getting CCed by a VT, then getting lynched, then the VT getting lynched.
And I think we can all agree that's not a good outcome. Maybe this was a one-time thing and normally you'll be able to prevent this, but given this one data point, I gotta say "this strategy seems questionable at best".
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like i don't know what you assume robik but cop does not need to "safely leave his checks". If he gets a red result he'll make a case and lynch the red check without outing he is a cop. If he finds all mafia left (or in other circumstances) he claims. If he get identified as blue and gets killed by mafia because of that he is bad. If he gets killed because he was playing well and proved himself town and was pointing the town towards mafia (even without checks) then he played well and other townies should play as well as he did.
Never rely on blues, and what you just said will just confuse town because people will focus on irrelevant shit like "who left good checks and who did levae bad checks" and the game goes clusterfuck like always in situations like that... keep it simple.
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Ya but if hes veteran and makes it to d2 without outing, he has one check that is hopefully alive, and gets a second check cause he has two hp.
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MM why did you vote BH when in a previous post you said you thought he was town?
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Also the town that voted 3 hours after day begins what a fucking joke.
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I left for like an hour and came back to rescind be he already died. I also hadnt slept for like 40 hours, but even if i was cop i wouldnt have cced. He wants to fakeclaim d1 he is going to get lynched by d3 cause if he was cop he should have died.he cant fake reds either with flips.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
? if you're actually cop you cc (properly) and kill him immediately.
your role is worth nothing compared to lynching a mafia on day 1.
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Ok I understand that but why did you say he was town in one post and then Vote him for lynch? To me it made him harder not to vote for if I believed one or the other to be town
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a 9 man setup by itself is very uncomfortable for scum to play in. If you have a couple townies playing well it gets very hard to find mislynches. You make it overly complicated with these blue shenanigans just play it straight up.
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On July 22 2014 05:55 iamperfection wrote:
a 9 man setup by itself is very uncomfortable for scum to play in. If you have a couple townies playing well it gets very hard to find mislynches. You make it overly complicated with these blue shenanigans just play it straight up.
I can't emphasize this enough. By the end of day one, I already had 4 other townreads, not including myself. The claim, and every single thing that happened afterwards, were completely unnecessary.
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EPT
