Normal Mini Mafia LVI

On June 17 2014 02:09 Lazermonkey wrote:
Hey everyone!

Protip: Town is far more inclined to scum slip than scum are.

Also, am I missing something or is all of your (Bunnies, that is) accusations against YKZ that he scum slipped? Because you really seem confident in that he is scum.

On June 16 2014 09:42 27ninjabunnies wrote:


Awwwww, how rude. Don't you know you are supposed to talk to a person when they are talking to you?

Also-she.

And Why right off the bat claim vt?

On June 16 2014 09:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:


YKZ is smurf.

And at first, I just put him on the list to get conversation going.

I don't like that he wants to ignore me completely. And that he has to immediately come out and say he is vt.

On June 16 2014 09:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:


Also, another point to why I don't like YKZ is the bolded.

He says I have limited information. How would he know that I am town?

Well, if he was mafia he would know that I am town.

So ##Vote: YKZ

On June 17 2014 03:21 slOosh wrote:
Lazermonkey, what is the "scummy stuff" that bunnies is backpedaling from?

On June 17 2014 03:26 27ninjabunnies wrote:
@Lazer- it is no lie that I was weirded out by the vt claim. You can obviously see that. but notice I voted YKZ before he voted me. So your last paragraph makes no sense? I don't vote YKZ until he votes me with kenpachi rule? I voted before that and he omgus the vote instead of actually giving reasons as to why I am scummy.

Also, yes, the other point was the limited information. Still not sure how this makes me scummy?

Your logic here to me seems super bad.

On June 17 2014 03:33 27ninjabunnies wrote:


4. It wasn't the MAIN reason I voted YKZ.

On June 17 2014 05:58 Snickers wrote:


Please explain why i am newbie.

People keep throwing around a lot of comments with assumptions. I'm just trying to clear that up. Release completely missed the fact that 27nb said vt twice before her lynch post. In my opinion releases huge first comment is based off something that is wrong. This does not mean it has zero merit. Release was complaining something along the line of ykz being misleading. I think it is misleading to boost a huge case on something and not even notice that 27nb did something that may(I think it does) against his case. It seems release is not intelligent or is trying to mislead

On June 17 2014 06:17 Snickers wrote:


I think it is relevant.

What is the point of posting something and not proving it when somebody asks you about it?

I think it just makes you look misleading.

On June 17 2014 06:36 27ninjabunnies wrote:


YEs, I do.

I just don't like the reasoning of Artanis not wanting to comment on either YKZ or me. I find this more townie, because he is looking for scum outside of us and trying to get reads outside of us.

On June 17 2014 06:34 27ninjabunnies wrote:


Not sure if you want me dead, or want to have sex with me.

Both are quite disturbing images.

So yeah, not getting the picture here.

On June 17 2014 06:55 27ninjabunnies wrote:


You view it as scummy, i view it as townie.

I don't see what you mean by not giving information. The only way that would work is if one us either me or YKZ was scum WITH artanis. But I dn't see that.

He is still attempting to get information outside of us.

On June 17 2014 20:42 mderg wrote:

That´s some solid reasoning there. At least be specific in some way. Right now your case on me is basically that my post feels kinda scummy.
Also I can assure you that it´s not all you get from me this cycle. "You may theoretically not post any more in this cycle, so I´m fine lynching you". Like you´re not even interested in my play and just want me lynched for starting the game a bit late.
Overall a really lazy vote on me without much to back it up.

On June 18 2014 01:34 mderg wrote:

I don´t really understand your first point. My coming alive has nothing to do with the vote on me. Why wouldn´t I defend myself against a terrible vote, though?

How is my read on release not clear? He is slightly scummy to me. What gives me some townie vibes is the timing of people piling on him. Instantly after the case without really reasoning much themselves. Also the case by Artanis is not nonexistent. It´s clear that Release´s focus on the back and forth between YKZ and bunnies was strange because there was not actually much in there. So the huge ass posts that give no additional reason other than YKZ is trying to confuse town seem scummy.

I don´t think sloosh´s case on Artanis is very strong, like the part about ignoring YKZ and bunnies when it´s difficult to get a scumread on either of them, they´re difficult to figure out with their repetitive arguing against each other. His reasons make sense but theres nothing that clearly points scum to me.



Why did you even need to ctrl+f my filter for that?
I generally don´t ask that many direct questions, I rather point things out that I find strange and most of the time people respond to these things. So it should have about the same effect as asking questions.

On June 18 2014 02:13 OnceKing wrote:


YouKnowZhou (1): 27ninjabunnies, Release, goodkarma
27ninjabunnies (2): YouKnowZhou, Lazermonkey, mderg
Release (1): Artanis[Xp], Snickers
Artanis[Xp] (1): slOosh
mderg (2): VisceraEyes, mderg

Currently Not Voting (5): Chezinu, goodkarma, Oatsmaster, 27ninjabunnies, Artanis[Xp]

---

Currently 27ninjabunnies is set to be lynched with 2 votes! Day will end in

Remember: Voting is mandatory. You can find the spreadsheet to the game here.

On June 11 2014 07:30 Kurumi wrote:Activity:
You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled.

On June 17 2014 09:11 mderg wrote:

SNIP

The whole thing with YKZ and bunnies is really strange. It feels like they´re both wrong, bunnies more so thab YKZ, though. I don´t think bunnies case was well substantiated at all, scumslips just almost never happen in forum mafia. I also don´t think the Kenpachi rule is as foolproof as YKZ said. It has some solid reasoning behind it but claiming that it always works seems stupid.
They´ve kinda been repeating themselves quite often, so there´s not that much to get from this.

I think YKZ is town because of the follow up on bunnies

I don´t think scum would so blatantly say that he acted scummy and someone should have pointed it out. This feels like a trap made by town. He´s also claimed vt early on which I find weird but unlikely to be scum play.

So I think out of bunnies and YKZ only bunnies can really be scum. It certainly is possible. Especially the heavy focus on YKZ´s "scumslip" seems suspicious. Not calling out YKZ´s scummy posts is not really alignment indicative. Not immediately noticing things that might look scummy to some can happen as both alignments.
I also dislike how she agrees with Artanis that Release is scummy but doesn´t think he´s scum because she wants to be right about YKZ and her association read.

SNIP

##vote 27ninjabunnies

On June 17 2014 18:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
So I wrote this big post about why I think slOosh is mafia because he thinks Artanis is mafia, but then as I started picking apart slOosh's reasoning I find that I'm really not so strongly feeling townie on Artanis, and that slOosh's reasoning is as bad as it was at first glance. So I removed the bit about Artanis and frankly it's not nearly as impressive. I've included it in a spoiler because I'm still tentatively scummy on slOosh, but the crux of my argument is garbage and the rest can possibly be just me misreading slOosh's intention or whatever.

Would probably vote for slOosh if he said nothing more today, but right now I'm looking elsewhere because I don't really find my case super convincing myself. I maintain that he doesn't /feel/ town to me, but concede that it's quite possible that I'm just wrong here.

+ Show Spoiler +

As for other players, as always I absolutely refuse to read BH this cycle. Chez seems to be Chez, which means he'll be alive until we lynch him regardless of his alignment. I'd like to see where this Artanis/slOosh stuff goes. I'm now kinda townreading Release now that he's proven a proclivity toward verbosity in all matters. mgerg is more guilty of rehashing than Release ever was, and in a way I find to be far more scummy. I think based on his (presumably only) D1 post that he's my favorite lynch today. I find his entire post to be wishywashy and diplomatic and scummy, and considering it may be all we get from him this cycle I'm fine with lynching him.

##Vote: mderg

On June 18 2014 04:36 Snickers wrote:


Acting like a bad town makes me think he is scum. The people that are town need to start stepping up to be good towns. Is it difficult to be a good town? Also if his vote is so out of place..... that would also make me think he is scum. If you are a town player not playing well.... you are helping scum more than town. This is true because you are just tossing confusion in the thread(Right?).Helping scum more than town shows scum.

On June 18 2014 05:38 mderg wrote:

My logic was different. I never said that they cannot both be scum. I also didn´t point out several things out that were alignment unindicative, it was one point made by YKZ that I don´t think is actually scummy. The things I didn´t like about her were the focus on the "scumslip" by YKZ, the thing about Release and townreading Artanis. Clearly more things that I think are scummy than things not alignment indicative.

The thing(s) I pointed out that weren´t alignment indicative were points brought up by YKZ which I didn´t really agree with. That´s the reason for bringing it up.

I think you´re "defending" me for the wrong reasons.

SNIP

On June 18 2014 05:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
BH, policy: Lynch all D1 replacements.
In the past two cell games I hosted I think 4/5 replacements were mafia. It's a solid policy.
Make the right lynch. Lynch Koshi.

On June 18 2014 05:33 YouKnowZhou wrote:


Where's bunnies right now, when we have more stuff to discuss? Sure, I'm not engaging the thread and talking about mderg (though nobody wants to summarise mderg stuff for me and I'm too lazy/busy at dinner to deal with it right now) but 27nb is conveniently gone! Yes, 27nb who could only think about my first post, who kenpachi rule, then kenpachi rule extended so hard, that if 27nb is scum you would all have to admit that kenpachi rule is the best policy. And yet here we are, with no votes on 27nb, and you know why? It's because you are weak. You are afraid, you don't trust the kenpachi rule. I understand, it's scary to put your faith in a rule. But when it comes down to it, kenpachi rule WORKS. Historically. People dislike the kenpachi rule, but try finding a better method of lynching people D1. RNG might cut it, but not in a game like this with a single faction.

The only thing you can trust on D1 is Kenpachi Rule in a game like this imo

On June 18 2014 08:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Mderg is a terrible lynch. Why does anyone want to lynch him?

On June 18 2014 08:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Active doesn't make you town. Bunnies was active in Cell Mini and she was mafia. Activity alone is a terrible reason.

On June 19 2014 03:22 Koshi wrote:
The 3 I named are my best guesses for scum. Scum never votes together. And you look pretty town. Just go from there.

On June 18 2014 23:44 Koshi wrote:
VE. Why did you decide to not make a comprehensible and nice looking case on mderg while you were willing to make a nice structured case on Sloosh?

Snickers. How do you scumhunt? Tell me how you came to the release vote and mderg vote. What did they do that made them scummy? I don't understand your case on Release. Mderg is scum for you because he voted while not being 100% sure? That's not how it works dude...
Also, what do you mean with "ratio of supposed scuminess to actual scuminnes seems high". Where did you get this from?

Release. The entire game you talk about BH and bunnies, but never did you conclude that bunnies was town from all of this, null at best. But then right before the lynch you ask the entire thread to "revisit" the bunnies vs BH argument. Why? Bunnies was just null to you from this argument and all the cases from Artanis and BH had nothing to do with the bunnies vs BH argument.

On June 19 2014 04:51 Snickers wrote:
You are an idiot or scum if you can't "see" the scum in mderg's first post. First off saying there is a chance you are only going to contribute one post to day one. This shows his terrible interest in this game. Then he tries to say he votes to prevent mod kill. Id rather him be modkilled than him help lynch someone because he felt a slight scum. You guys must have played so many games of mafia you cannot think logically.

On June 19 2014 04:51 Snickers wrote:I cannot believe no one mentioned this aspect of this game. 27nb had the same principles in her posts from the start. Confused, emotional, silly. So has ykz. Cocky , deceiving, focused. We know 27nb was town. If ykz is mafia he is very good at it. Even after the proof that he was wrong or was lying. He perfectly continues his principals after the lynch. Release on the other hand had been inconsistent with his principals. He seems aggressive than passive.
Reactionary than static. I think it should be looked into. I won't be able to post or read until six hours from now. I will look at be (whoever name keeps getting mentioned).

On June 19 2014 04:57 Snickers wrote:
And yea I do know most of my shit. I may not know terms but I still knew lylo was a phase at the end of the game. Also look at this. Release said talking about pros was bad. I said I did not see it. Then agreed because talking about pr is the same way we try to find scum. It is logical. I still think he is wrong tho cause I never said 27nb is vigilante. I was talking about prs in general not specific to a person.

On June 19 2014 05:16 mderg wrote:

No examples for that, just a general impression. His general play doesn´t look like newbie play to me.

I think it´s more likely to come from scum since it gets suspicion on people without actually getting behind their play. It´s also relatively easy to find "scummy" things that way but I don´t think it really helps to figure out alignments.

On June 19 2014 05:29 VisceraEyes wrote:
I did - I gave reasoning for thinking mderg was mafia and espoused a very clear townread of the counterwagon.

You can disagree with the degree, but the actions are here in this thread for all to see.

On June 20 2014 06:21 YouKnowZhou wrote:


You note that you're only slightly suspicious of me. However, I successfully pushed a mislynch all D1 basically to the exclusion of giving any other reads of substance, and haven't posted anything but fluff since 27nb flipped town. Why aren't you interested in voting me?

On June 20 2014 06:34 YouKnowZhou wrote:


I'd consider a case on me to have two main components:

1) I pushed a mislynch D1
2) That comprises the vast majority of my filter. Aside from a couple one-off notes I have not really engaged or given reads on anyone else, not even in the intervening 36 hours since the mislynch happened. Now, if 27nb flipped scum, there would be no suspicion on me basically at all. People would congratulate me for my excellent tunnelling of scum. As luck would have it, 27nb wasn't scum, just profoundly scummy town. And I am a bit tied up eating dinner at the moment so I don't really have time to put together a case on someone, or even write an adequate defense (though honestly the only adequate defense here would be for me to catch scum and then everyone be like "wow look a scum").

People are too lazy and unmotivated to catch scum, so they're just gonna lynch the me. I'm a legendary scum player. I'm so good that most people are naturally suspicious of me no matter what I do. This is acceptable. Ideally though once I'm done with dinner I come back and wow all you guys so hard that you can't even imagine lynching me. I'm the only town leader around here and without me the thread grinds to a halt, it seems.

On June 20 2014 19:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
BH, I'm not a newbie player. I know that similarities does not necessarily mean the same alignment, but previous games can give you insights into their mind. Particularly a scum qt can be enlightening. It told me mderg is someone that thinks before he posts as scum, which is a point against him being scum this game.

I'm not up for a mderg lynch at this point in time. I am up for a Koshi lynch though.
##Unvote
##Vote Koshi

On June 19 2014 21:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
That list is Snickers/Release/LM. Blah. I should really solidify my read on Snickers/LM this cycle.

On June 21 2014 06:04 YouKnowZhou wrote:


As a matter of policy, I do not lynch players right after they replace in. I leave them alone for a full cycle. I find this typically works pretty well; people need time to get their shit together usually.

On June 21 2014 06:21 Koshi wrote:

You don't think I am town VE? I am hurt.

tbh atm I could also lynch Lazermonkey. He keeps complaining on D2 about me but he hasn't done anything himself this day. He just keeps focusing on me and VE and ignores Mderg/BH. While Mderg was his main scumread for the entire D1.

On June 21 2014 21:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Lazer, can you explain us how your read on YKZ and mderg evolved and why you voted for YKZ at the end?

On June 22 2014 23:31 Koshi wrote:
Then why did you keep pushing the idea in the thread that I am scum?

On June 23 2014 00:46 Koshi wrote:
Yes. Belgium playing soon so let's all cheer together. Nobody likes Russians anyway.

On June 23 2014 01:27 Koshi wrote:

How should I push you? Please tell me how my case on you should look like.

On June 23 2014 01:35 Koshi wrote:

I am voting you because you did nothing else but talk about me D2 while there was a lot of things happening. I do not understand what you want me to do more. Please explain to me how I am not pushing you enough. I told everybody why I am voting you.

How is that reread from D2 going? It seems like you still think I should be pushed over anybody else. You got nothing at all from D2? Or do you have new evidence against me. Let's talk about that.

Because from where I am sitting you are still scumreading me for not doing enough. This time not doing enough to push you. It's getting boring.

On June 23 2014 03:02 Koshi wrote:

Wouldn't I push you harder if my second scumread was my scum teammate?

On June 23 2014 03:08 Koshi wrote:

I agree.

On June 23 2014 03:15 Koshi wrote:

1 more Question.

Why is VE not mafia?

On June 18 2014 08:03 OnceKing wrote:


27ninjabunnies (5): YouKnowZhou, Artanis[Xp], mderg, goodkarma, Chezinu
YouKnowZhou (1): Release
VisceraEyes (2): Lazermonkey, slOosh
mderg (2): Snickers, VisceraEyes

Currently Not Voting (2): Koshi, 27ninjabunnies

---

Currently 27ninjabunnies is set to be lynched with 5 votes! Day will end in

Remember: Voting is mandatory. You can find the spreadsheet to the game here.

On June 23 2014 06:13 slOosh wrote:
How do you find YKZ town?

On June 23 2014 06:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Lazer, one interesting tidbit in that is that once we switched to Snickers, BH became complacent about whether Snickers or mderg should be lynched and even resisted switching back to mderg at first. It wasn't a very strong kind of resistance, but resistance nonetheless.

On June 23 2014 06:42 YouKnowZhou wrote:
Oh come on I was willing to lynch whoever as long as out wasn't me. The guy I resisted lynching was VE

On June 23 2014 06:51 Koshi wrote:
Wait. Where did I do scummy stuff Lazermonkey?

On June 23 2014 07:02 Koshi wrote:

There is literally nothing in your filter about me doing scummy things. Are we still on the fact I did nothing on N1? Or D1 when I just replaced into a game?

And what did you do? In 2 days your super mega case you promised is "VE voted wrong guys, he scum".

On June 23 2014 07:17 slOosh wrote:
So Lazer, mderg started N1 / D2 with scum reads on VE and Snickers, and that's what he went with. Could you explain your interpretation of this scum strategies?

On June 23 2014 07:45 slOosh wrote:

It was one directional, it that you explained why VE's actions fit a VE mderg scum team. I'm asking how mderg's actions, namely voting VE, makes sense in a VE mderg scum team.

On June 23 2014 07:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
What are the main points against me? Are they here in Artanis' post?


...because if so, then I'll address them here.

1) I've never taken credit for things I haven't done. Any credit I've tried to take has been for things I've done. If you can point to posts where I'm doing this, then I'll kindly point to the post that shows me doing the thing I'm taking credit for. This point is false.

2) I've pushed the thread forward as much as I can whenever I can. Even though my play can be described as lackadaisical D1, I maintain that I clearly elucidated my intentions that cycle and indeed attempted to get a good lynch with what little posting time I did have. And while it's true that my vote ended up on the not-flipped-scum on D2, during that whole cycle I did nothing to dissuade votes on mderg and indeed pointed out several times that I was absolutely fine with mderg eating a lynch instead of who my vote was on. I've been pushing a pro-town agenda all game, and to say that I haven't pushed the thread forward with my own original posts is false.

3) This is your own personal opinion that is colored by your bias that you think I'm mafia. However because I'm town I know that this point is also indeed false because I set nothing up with mderg to "prove" I'm town.

On June 24 2014 00:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Did you read the entire thread before you made that vote or were you strapped for time? And why did you talk about "between snickers and VE" when the vote was never between those two?

SNIP

On June 23 2014 23:57 Snickers wrote:
I do not think i made a long post about your alignment. Day 2 I made a post mentioning I read you as town. Then I told release I still thought you were town but I would look into it. I knew people were calling you scum for voting the first time I read your filter. It is worries me that your asking me questions that take time when I am super busy, almost like you planned that. I did say I would not consolidate on you but I have already switch my consolidate post to I would not lynch Release, unless he did the biggest scum slip.

On June 23 2014 15:03 Snickers wrote:


Are you saying the bold is scummy because I do not really see it. Am i casting suspicion on you or on LazerMonkey?

If you want the truth to why I asked that i will tell you but I would rather wait till after the lynch since I think VE is getting it.

I will tell you why I asked the goodkarma thing though. I think you are a good player (as in knowledgeable not alignment) after reading multiple peoples' filters.

Also I will read your filter to see where this LazerMonkey vote came from. I think I remember something about his votes day two being brought up.

On June 23 2014 15:20 Snickers wrote:
Release and YKZ if you are still around. What do you make of the day one posts. Sloosh highlighted the alignment of players. I do not think all of mafia would of been on 27nb. So i think it is very likely that, not to call you out but release lazermonkey or ve is scum. So it is obvious i think Ve is the most likely out of the mentioned three. Release is most likely not. As with lazermonkey, I read his filter and I thought it looked townie, somebody just mentioned he was playing well day one then dropped off day two or vice versa.

So you most def do not want me to harp VE. If you have not yet, look at my post where I comment on where mderg says "honestly". I think mderg slipped so much with words it may have clued us in on other scum.

On June 23 2014 15:29 Snickers wrote:
Yea so Release is looking very town to me now. Day one votes I was saying it was scummy for him not to consolidate, but now that it has flipped mderg as mafia (or now that I am reading more clearly), it would mean mafia decided to not choose a defensive backing. It also made release look initially scummy. So I made quite the fallacy by putting release on the same level of scrutiny as Ve and LazerMonkey.

On June 23 2014 15:38 Snickers wrote:
At this point, let not forget the possibility that LazerMonkey and Ve are both scum. I feel like we are starting to say One or the other. So Ykz, you think his anger was weird, I think his plea of do not let YKZ let you think this way and do not talk yourself into thinking I am mafia was weird.

On June 23 2014 16:24 Snickers wrote:
I get you/lazer/ve as in the five people that did not vote 27nb was me you lazer ve and 27nb. Mderg voted 27nb so assuming that mafia do not vote together. Now I am not scum so I left me out of it. Left 27nb out because she flipped vt. So that left you/lazer/ve . I posted after that post how I think you should not be put on the same level as lazer/ve since they voted mderg while you voted YKZ.

My opinion on Lazer is that I went through his filter and I read him as town. I was not around when the final voting was happening so I am kinda confused on what happened. So far I have that Lazer did something very scummy last minute. It seems like a lot of people agree with it (more than two) so I just believe it was.

I should probably reread his filter because I only had him and Chezinu as just plain town (as in not good town or bad town). I can probably do better with LazerMonkey but probably not with Chezinu. I do not think it is possible to say chezinu is good or bad town just different.

On June 23 2014 05:59 Lazermonkey wrote:
So after rereading almost all of D2-D3 I have come to the following conclusions.

YKZ is 110% town.
The remaining two scum are found among VE, SlOosh and Koshi. However, while I stated that SlOosh was my top scum a few posts ago I have changed my mind. I still do think SlOosh is suspicious but that has more to do with him pushing ALL the wrong wagons and putting up some quite weak reasoning for not voting mderg. He says that he doesn't like the wagon and he keeps saying that mdergs posts are "consistent" but he never explain what is so consistent with his posts.

Koshi is still a scum read of mine. Not really going to repeat why I think that though, just look at my filter.

My top scum read atm is Ve though. @Artanis and all other non-believers in VEs scumminess: VE sure made a case on mderg D1. But look at his follow-up to that case. Practically non-existant. And look at the vote count at time where VE left the thread:

An mderg lynch is highly unlikely at this point making his vote on mderg not risky at all.

Back to why VE is scum though: First off, we have the fact that VE drops case on mderg and puts a vote on him D1. But doesn't push him. And not only does he not push him. He does not try to defend Bunnies at all despite claiming that Bunnies was "supertown".

Not only that but also keeps mentioning how he has both YKZ and mderg as his top scum reads yet he only keeps pushing YKZ. Convinient, huh?

##Vote: VE

On June 23 2014 02:59 Lazermonkey wrote:
SlOosh

On June 23 2014 15:20 Release wrote:
VE has always been on of my candidates for mafia outside you. Although you disagree, I don' think he has done anything blatantly mafia and therefore he has only remained a candidate, and not worthy of a vote. Lazer on the other hand when I revisited his filter went from strong town Day 1 to useless D2 and D3, which pushes him ahead of VE, and snickers. I'll leave this here while I visit address your case.

On June 23 2014 08:32 Release wrote:

I find this really weird because I see neither a strong nor even a weak case for sloOsh in your filter. There's this gem (reponse to Koshi's "give me your top scumread") but I don't really see where this comes from. In fact since day2, you've been flip-flopping like a bass, a very mafia bass. It seems like SloOsh has just been thrown into that list for the sake of adding an extra town as a suspect. Makes me feel like Lazer is starting to grasp at straws.

On June 23 2014 15:20 Release wrote:
VE has always been on of my candidates for mafia outside you. Although you disagree, I don' think he has done anything blatantly mafia and therefore he has only remained a candidate, and not worthy of a vote. Lazer on the other hand when I revisited his filter went from strong town Day 1 to useless D2 and D3, which pushes him ahead of VE, and snickers. I'll leave this here while I visit address your case.

On June 24 2014 01:02 VisceraEyes wrote:

1) I was absent during the main pushes of her lynch. This is the least active day of mine and this is evident in the thread. I can't push something when I'm not looking at the thread, similarly I can't push /against/ something if I'm not looking at the thread.

2) There's followup. I give reasoning for thinking he's susupicious (you may not like the amount, but it's there) and I ask a couple of times where votes are/why people aren't voting. Pretty standard "I don't have time to actually push here, but I think you should be lynching X" stuff D1. On D2, I make a case (which Snickers will tell you is his case, but I made it not even knowing Snickers was SUSPICIOUS of mderg) and yes, I vote for BH. But my active, stated stance is "I like both of these lynches". That is explicit in my posts, that's the active stance I take. It's not that I don't WANT to make a choice between them, it's that I don't have to because I think they both scum.

3) This is true, and unless you think BH is like supertown (lol) then I don't know what the problem is.

Ultimately your case boils down to you don't like my playstyle, which is NOT news, we've had friction before I think. However if you're on my team this game, you should really move your vote off me and onto BH.

On June 24 2014 01:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
1) While this is true, it doesn't make me scum nor would I spend my posts doing this if I were scum. WIFOM or whatever, but I'm just sayin.

2) I don't think coming in and poking fun at the way BH is reacting to things a "big attempt". Basically it was just me coming into the thread and reaffirming that I was on the right lynch. I never made ANY attempt to pull votes OFF mderg, which is the tack you have to think I was going for, but that's not what I did and that's not the effect of my "push" on BH. I made it clear that I wanted to lynch both of them.

3) Okay I'll disregard because subjective.

LM if you're town you REALLY have to not vote for me here. I don't know if BH is scum, but I DO know that he's wrong about me. I'm town, and I THINK BH is scum. If I'm wrong whatever, that's fine. But I KNOW FOR A FACT that he's wrong about me and you should not lynch me.

On June 24 2014 02:13 Snickers wrote:
So ve is talking about activity but the main point is hid activity pushing the game forward or not doing anything or defending himself. He is saying day two was when he was least active and if memory serves me right , that was the day no one was voting him or the day where he was least likely to get lynched. Now it seems like he is just defending himself which release said is scummy.

Anyway Lazermonkey last time I'm saying something about this. All those posts I was saying you were town with the possibility of you being scum. I was saying lets not make associations like everyone hates and goes on a witch hunt for. Every person that has not flipped is possible for scum.

What is the case on sloosh? Did I misss something ? (Requesting four lines or less) . He and koshi are my top town reads.

On June 24 2014 03:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I agree that VE sounds pretty townie, but it's lacking in capslock. Capslock is VE's town seal.

On June 24 2014 03:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I really don't know right now. My reads tend to be shaped throughout all the interactions in the game but it feels like everyone's suspecting everyone right now which really messes up my compass of where to look. There's so much fluff and non-alignment related things filling up conversation that it's hard to motivate myself to read through it critically.

On June 24 2014 04:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Snickers cannot possibly be mafia because mderg delurked to vote for him to save himself when Snickers had taken a lot less heat than mderg until that point. I don't like a Lazermonkey lynch either.

On June 24 2014 04:24 slOosh wrote:
Lazer, in 1 sentence, why am I scum?

On June 24 2014 04:26 slOosh wrote:

I'm opposed because his read on Lazer's D2 apathy was spot on. I am planning on dialoguing with Lazermonkey right now to see what's going on here.

On June 24 2014 04:28 slOosh wrote:

Could you sum up the case on mderg D1 in one sentence?

On June 24 2014 04:36 slOosh wrote:
I don't like how Lazer keeps ditching whatever to get at Koshi.

He says I'm scum for being on the wrong wagon twice, but doesn't seem to consider that Koshi was on the correct wagon D2 the whole time.

All in all, lynching Lazermonkey > Koshi.

Thank you for your considerations.

On June 24 2014 04:44 Snickers wrote:
Lol lazer lying he voted mderg day one.

also ve is burying himself so I am not switching vote.

Also koshi is either the worst town in this game or best scum player. If u do not understand why, look at my posts about principles or I'll explain when I have time aka after lynch.

On June 24 2014 04:44 slOosh wrote:

Right, and how to you defend against that? You don't. It looks bad and that's that. I thought other things in his filter looked good so I defended him. So did Artanis. VE called me out for not addressing it, I offered a dialogue on specific points of interest. No one took me up on it.

I was wrong on mderg. How does that make me scum?

On June 24 2014 05:15 Koshi wrote:
SNIP

How hard can this be. There are still 5 people in the running for scum. BH/Release/Artanis look town. Or shot not be considered for the mderg lynch today. Artanis is a little fucker but who cares.
Snickers/VE/Lazermonkey/Chezinu/SloOsh are left.

Snickers can be excused due to mderg filter. Very unlikely that he is scum with mderg. Not a good lynch.
Chezinu is Chezinu and was on mderg. I guess we have a doc and not a cop so that's unfortunate but even then I wouldn't lynch Chezinu because he isn't harmful to town in any way. He isn't pushing an agenda he is just being around.

VE is away on the wrong moments, pushes scum but then doesn't vote scum, can't be tied to anybody in case he flips scum because his reads are all neutral, and is currently just showing activity.
Lazermonkey is just trying to get me lynched. Even when his top scumreads were SloOsh and VE he was pushing me the hardest. Look at D2, he just came in to push me while IGNORING the mderg/BH wagons. I am pretty sure that scumtactics were to get BH lynched (who was main candidate back then) and then myself.



All these posts indicate that Lazermonkey is actually following the thread. Nowhere it looks like he is lagging behind so he can't give an opinion on Mderg/BH. Clearly it was a choice from Lazermonkey to not comment on it. Why not? Because BH was going to get lynched and Lazermonkey was setting up the next misslynch. That's why. There is enough time between these posts to catch up with the thread. Are you going to believe he just came in once an hour and just looked at my filter and pushes me? Why wouldn't scum be superlazy on D2 with BH playing suicidal?

SNIP

On June 24 2014 06:23 Snickers wrote:
I thought my reads we're bad a he he.

Artanis did u completely forget about day one lol.
So far in this game my reads are better than your reads.

Like seriously go through koshi filter and explain why scum would play that.

And all jokes aside. Does Lazermonkey really think he did not vote mderg day one. A little lost with my quick reading .

On June 24 2014 06:52 Snickers wrote:
How the heck am I the one one to comment on that and how the heck does ve forgot his first day post. On he was not strong on it then. Wow Lazermonkey is making the choice a lot harder for me. If ve and lazer monkey are scum, lazer monkey trying to stop us from consolidating.

On June 24 2014 06:54 Chezinu wrote:

Then why don't you save yourself and kills VE?

You have the power to vote.

Or you can keep VE alive and die in his place, so that VE and me can die tonight together to fullfill the prophecy! Best ending EVER!!!!

On June 24 2014 06:54 Snickers wrote:
Koshi is town because of how bad his play continual is. Look at his first scum reads as me release and somebody else because we did not vote together. He's not pushing the thread or helping much but what do you expect from a bad town player. More on this later.

On June 24 2014 07:05 Koshi wrote:

That was in case LM is scum. Because I said before they could be scumbuddies. But I don't think anymore that that is the case. So I corrected myself.

Look, both could be scum here. I don't know which one. Maybe not a single one of them is scum. But I think that they are. Sloosh/LM/VE it just feels right that scum is in there.

On June 24 2014 07:18 VisceraEyes wrote:
SNIP

I think Lazer is the best lynch because he is on a short list of people I think could be mafia based on the voting on D1 (myself, Snickers, LM) and now he's opportunistically voting for me NOT based on his own observations but based on the findings and mutterings of others. I've answered any points he's raised against me, and he's just ignored. I think Snickers is town and I KNOW I'm town so I think LM is the best lynch today.

On June 24 2014 07:38 YouKnowZhou wrote:


Note that he just dropped some reads, he's not here developing them. The dude has an hour and a half, with which he could be bouncing ideas off of people and developing his reads. Instead he drops a post that looks a lot like a "i'm townie and gonna die" post, but what is he doing otherwise? Everything VE does to help town is only like directly in response to people lynching him.

SNIP

On June 24 2014 08:16 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Emotional appeal does not help.

I still believe in a mass exodus onto Koshi. Is there anyone that has a townread on him that isn't based on something factually wrong (his townplay being bad)?

On June 24 2014 08:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Maybe your average scum, not VE scum. VE scum either actually fights the lynch or just leaves the thread. VE town rubs it in everyone's face that he's the wrong lynch.

On June 24 2014 08:42 slOosh wrote:

Could you point out where? Really strange that you don't want to lynch Koshi all of a sudden.

On June 24 2014 08:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
There's absolutely no way VE would act this way as scum in the end. If he has I'm going to give him a massive congrats for fooling me this badly, but I don't see it happening. Please switch to Koshi guys.

VE, stop martyring. There's still hope. There's always hope. Martyring is straight against your wincon.

On June 24 2014 08:50 slOosh wrote:

Could you please point out which posts he is pushing scum reads? Like, quote them and stuffs?

On June 24 2014 08:51 Release wrote:
Lazer is a flip-flop-flippin.

On June 24 2014 08:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

It doesn't matter if you think it's stinking meta, it's accurate. Since when do you care about the way in which someone gives off towntells? It's either accurate or it isn't, and I'm pretty sure it's accurate. The faking anger/afk thing is all projection and something you can't be certain of.

On June 24 2014 08:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I think those posts actually make Koshi a lot scummier than he was before though. That second post especially as he ends up making a case on Lazer but never votes him.

On June 24 2014 09:19 slOosh wrote:

I find it super hard to believe that a full 2 cycles worth of suspicion can so easily be suspended by those two posts you quoted.

On June 24 2014 09:19 slOosh wrote:

I find it super hard to believe that a full 2 cycles worth of suspicion can so easily be suspended by those two posts you quoted.

On June 24 2014 09:27 slOosh wrote:
D2, when he was super busy, the time he had he chose to pursue Koshi.

It is clear from his filter that nothing from N2 or D3 has impressed him thus far. However, when a VE wagon arises, Lazermonkey suddenly starts having qualms about lynching Koshi. When pressed for reasoning, he first refuses to quote the posts. When pressed again, he links them without explaining why. Furthermore it looks like he just grabbed random quotes from Koshi's filter, and really I don't see how it could possibly be enough to be like, "oh that Koshi read I've had for a super long time and I've wanted him dead for a super long time? Yea, nah I don't wanna vote him"

On June 24 2014 09:41 YouKnowZhou wrote:


Look man, VE has basically given up. He knows he is being lynched. He's setting the stage for scum #3 and he's trying to avoid giving away hints. Instead, he's just calling people bad, and trying to get a wagon going on anyone not him. It's perfect because it gives away no info, nothing useful to town. he's not too scummy to be scum, he's perfectly scummy to be scum.

On June 25 2014 08:24 Snickers wrote:
Yea I think it would be a lot better to lynch Lazermonkey because he forgot that he voted mderg day one. I already explained why I thought it was suspicious.

On June 25 2014 08:37 Snickers wrote:
Yea wine in front of me. Ebwop is edit by way of post. Fellow townie good karma told me a great website to look up terms.

YO lazer guess what the website said. That was one of the most misused terms.

So if I had to guess your wrong . Explain to me how your right.

On June 25 2014 08:58 Release wrote:
You could read my other post.
A summary would be that he asked questions that are useful to town.
When others create chaos, his posts dissuade it.
He forms his own opinions.
Haven't seen anything particularly misleading/incriminating as we have seen from Mderg, VE (even though he flipped town, some of his play was less than consistent), YKZ, and Lazer (imo).

On June 25 2014 09:03 Release wrote:
GG.


This is a summary of my other post. Artanis had trouble finding it. I'm not trying to pass this as new information, which you seem to be implying.

On June 25 2014 08:59 Artanis[Xp] wrote:slOosh - His D1 was really strong and he's asking questions and pushing the game forward rather than just his own reads. If I'm wrong on any of my town reads, I think it's slOosh though.

On June 25 2014 09:15 YouKnowZhou wrote:
And this despite the fact the chez us obviously the cop

On June 25 2014 09:18 YouKnowZhou wrote:
Oh didn't pay attention to that. Wasn't he crumbling sloish with the whole one hindered percent thing? I guess he could have saved chez the top townread. Let's not lynch chez for two reasons then

On June 25 2014 11:03 Snickers wrote:
I would not be surprised if mafia killed NameDropper just because one of the persons he had as town is mafia.

Also, somebody mentioned him saving someone. There could be more than one medic i think for town.

Also Lazer your wifom is terrible. I already explained why.

On June 25 2014 06:23 slOosh wrote:



Here is why I'd rather lynch Lazermonkey than Koshi.

Artanis, this is also why I'd rather lynch BH than into Lazermonkey / Koshi if you feel so strongly on the Koshi read. Also both BH and LM want to lynch Koshi. I am totally not down for a Koshi lynch.

On June 25 2014 10:36 slOosh wrote:
Right. Let's do this guys.

##Vote Lazermonkey

On June 26 2014 00:13 Snickers wrote:
Yea so last two scum are ykz and lazer.

Lazer says that him not remembering his vote says something to the effectt of "well this does not make me look good :D"

Then I say that it makes him look bad and this flips his world upside down.

Ykz is scum because he broke out of his character completely now. Also look at how weak his case on koshi is compared to VE. Even 27nb. Also he did not comment on me responding to him.

Lazer is more so than ykz. Side not: koshi's recent point about is weird.

On June 26 2014 02:06 Snickers wrote:
You say I'm probably town then say you will not question me anymore? Lol that makes a lot of sense. Already clearly stated it and you still do not get it. Also you are confused.

On June 26 2014 05:43 Lazermonkey wrote:
Okay, I kinda screwed up this game. Not even sure I bother to respond the accusations against me longer. They are so fucked up and it feels like I'm talking into wall. I have tried to be reasonable and answered to all of the suspicions (I think at least). Yet people go around and thinks I'm scum either completely based on WIFOM reasons or "because it feels like LM is scum". Its just not possible to argue against stuff like that. I'll just try to out my thoughts so that you can have something to go on once I flip.

Chez - Most likely town. TBH I don't get why its obvious that he is cop but it doesn't even matter. It seems that at least a few people have figured out that he was a cop and that is enough for me. It also explains the otherwise wierd megatown read that Artanis had on him.

YKZ - Most likely town as well. Was 95% of reason that mderg died. While it is true that scum do buss, they generally buss when their teammate when he is already about to get fucked. mderg wasn't really about to get fucked. He got fucked by YKZ though. Another reason why I think he is town is the fact that he is defending me pretty hard. This will obviously not convince someone that thinks that I am scum but if you (like myself) know that I am town, then this is another indicator that YKZ is town.

Snickers - Snickers is Snickers. Sadly, he is probably town. mderg attacked him and shit. I could be wrong about Snickers but I get the feeling that he is just really really bad town.

Release - Simply put, he is unreasonable. Bad arguments. He did, however, make the kill on mderg possible which makes him quite likely town. His vote switch on mderg was late though so if I'm wrong about either SlOosh/Koshi then Release is probably the last scum.

Koshi/SlOosh - nothing really changed since yesterday as I see it. Will try to figure out which one of these guys I'd be most happy to kill though.

On June 26 2014 05:51 Snickers wrote:
Lazer if u want to look town to me, look at the questions sloosh ask during day one and analyze them. He asks ykz and me and somebody else about reads. They could be pointless though and just attempts to look townie. I do not have a computer to reference them to the rest of the thread.

On June 26 2014 05:51 Chezinu wrote:

He knows he got checked, so don't expect much of a response.

On June 26 2014 05:56 Chezinu wrote:

Mafia obv.

On June 26 2014 05:58 YouKnowZhou wrote:

Don't you mean "so you know I am vanilla"?

On June 26 2014 05:58 Chezinu wrote:

Yup. The good medic be deads.

On June 26 2014 06:02 Chezinu wrote:

Sadly.

On June 26 2014 06:57 slOosh wrote:
Yea, so I defended mderg a couple times during day 1, and once during day 2 to vote for YKZ. Since YKZ hasn't flipped, me voting YKZ over mderg isn't alignment indicative.

I pushed Artanis and backed off. I pushed VE and backed off. I never pushed bunnies, I just preferred her over mderg at the time. Clearly Lazermonkey hasn't been following the thread.

Convenient? Did I also setup the Chezinu cop claim as well? Wowzers.

Still hasn't voted for me despite thinking I'm superscum. A doy.

On June 26 2014 07:13 YouKnowZhou wrote:


Look LM what I'm trying to get at here is that if you're dead anyways, let's just make the best of it. I still think you have a decent chance of flipping town, but let's be real here: there's a red check on you. You have to be lynched. So I'm not 100% sure you're scum, but I *am* 100% sure you're getting lynched today. The first step to being productive with the next 24 hours is going to be you accepting that you're getting lynched and making the best of it.

So when it comes down to it, your case on sloOsh consists of him pushing townies and defending mderg with faulty reasoning, and on D4 focusing you over me (I'm assuming you're talking about before chez claimed a goon check on you). Does this accurately characterize your reasons for wanting to lynch him?

On June 26 2014 07:59 YouKnowZhou wrote:


I was summarizing. I'll take a look at the faulty reasoning of mderg defense, which is typically more telling of scum than just happening to push townies imo. The question isn't what a player does, but HOW the player does it. town can be right and town can be wrong, but they are right or wrong for reasons that make sense, at least to a townie. If SloOsh was really defending mderg for reasons that don't make sense then that's a solid reason for a scumread.

I did not like release before D3. However, throughout D3 he was willing to engage me and we had many long conversations, when I feel like as scum he just wouldn't have interacted in such a meaningful way. That being said, I'll take a look at my interactions with him and see if anything seemed off.

Snickers' chief point against him (in addition to some blantantly anti town play) is that he voted for mderg D1 but not D2, just like you and VE did. I don't like him.



In terms of the Artanis shot, it seems very straightforward to me. He was the doc and scum needed to shoot him. The fact that scum shot him and not Chez means they probably didn't have an RB, else they'd have RBed him and killed the cop right away. Also, yes, like literally everyone had a townread on Artanis.

On June 27 2014 03:52 Koshi wrote:
He does BH. I asked.

Lazer is scum for thinking a greenchecks makes him look good. Especially after his D2/N2. A redcheck would have been actually made him look good.

Snickers is also a sane cop or mafia.

On June 27 2014 03:30 Snickers wrote:


lol thats the first decent size mistake i made in this game. A lot of a mistake than all the people that did not even read the roles.

Anyway, day one hard pushed 27nb early

Day two was hard pushing me I guess, will look into it when I get time before the lynch.

Day three hard push ve early.

Day four defend lazer early.

And it is weird that Lazer says YKZ is town before me and chezinu.

On June 27 2014 04:00 Snickers wrote:
I'm an insane or sane detective And why would I be mafia . I thought u thought I was town.

On June 27 2014 06:25 slOosh wrote:
Like look here,



Lazermonkey is spending time trying to convince Release that his town read on me is flawed. This is totally inconsistent with what he just said a page ago, that he likely finds me town based on checks, and Release more scummy than me.

If anything, he should be convincing me why Release is scum. But he isn't, because he is scum and flailing around.

I mean, I don't want to cut down on anyone, but I think it's really really super duper evident that Lazermonkey is scum, and I don't need to point out how everything he says indicates so.

On June 27 2014 06:35 Release wrote:
Lazer, forget the checks. Reread YKZ day 1. How do you feel about him and why?

On June 27 2014 06:40 Chezinu wrote:

I never said I got goon back. I'm not even a cop. lol I just know things like... art is medic. When someone hands Chezinu a awesome role to pretend to be.. I couldn't resist... Sorry for pulling a Caller on you guys.

Also, sorry for taking a while to respond. Twas busy today.

On June 27 2014 06:50 Release wrote:
What about the fact that others told him that he was wrong and he still insisted that he was right?