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I promise you, by the way, whether or not there's a meta case to be made, I can make one. I'm that skilled. I think mderg is scum, and if you want, I will make a meta case I don't believe it and it will be convincing. I'm really good at that. Here, check it out.
In Detention as scum mderg posts this:
On May 28 2014 06:33 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 11:50 jabberwockzerg wrote:On May 27 2014 11:44 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 27 2014 11:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Counter point: he could have been super into last game because he was mafia, and isn't as into being vanilla town. So let me spell it out. It has to do with this post here. You were a squirrel eating nuts last game, were you not? Yet here, you say he could have been super into the last game because he was also sniffing the maple. Yet, he wasnt. You were. And you didnt know that that knowledge was made public to us. So either you are defending Chrom/slightly bussing here because he is your partner in crime, or you are again down among the badgers as you said chrom was leading more towards being a grim reaper in a town full of sickness, and you want to get him lynched. Clearing this up, I didn't mean mafia specifically, just non vanilla. Was this bad wording? Yes. Stupid of me? Yes. Learning experience, definitely this post seems honest to me. I don´t think anyone would make this defense, if it wasn´t actually the truth. It´s just too far of from anything I would have expected as defense.
to defend a town player who's under fire. It's a great defense-of-town post for a scum player to make, because it wont' convince anyone, but it's the kind of thing you can say about anyone who's scummy and still kinda be true, and you'll get credit for being right after the fact. Now check out his post on me this game:
On June 20 2014 18:30 mderg wrote:
I´m not sure what to think of bh. I did read him as town but over the last days I didn´t get the impression that he was really trying to help town here which would normally lead me to believe he´s scum. But he has put himself so much into the spotlight in an obviously negative way that I find it hard to believe he could be scum. I guess I have to wait for his awesome case.
It's the same logic. He sees a townie under fire and tries to get some credit by playing the "this play is too honest and brazen to be scum, look how scummy it is, he must be town" card.
In my opinion, all though this does not on its own make mderg scum, it fits into his pattern of play as a scum player. Who else defends me in a situation like this (besides goodkarma, who scum conveniently shot?). Yes, he is setting himself up for towncred...
^--- I can pick out like 10+ things like this comparing ANY TWO FILTERS and make a meta case. I'm that good. Like, if you want, I'll do it for mderg. But it doesn't mean anything that I can do it, except that I'm good at it.
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I guess what I'm trying to say is, meta is just something you use to shore up a case that you have made based on things that have happened in game. For certain exceptions (alakaslam, chezinu, etc) you have to mostly work on meta, but if you're trying to lynch a normal player, make the case based on what he's done this game. Meta should typically be used to exonerrate someone (ie if mderg just rando votes his townreads EVERY game that he's town, then we shouldn't lynch him for it), or as the icing on the cake of a case. The meat of the case shouldn't be meta, even if meat and meta are anagrams.
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I'd be surprised if he has any associative component of that statement. You don't draw associative tells between unflipped players. More likely, he's saying "there are only 7 hours left in the day, and there are 2 main wagons. a vote outside these wagons is a wasted vote. Let's consolidate so we're less vulnerable to scum meddling and it's easier to understand what's going on"
I generally agree, with the caveat that you should vote mderg, not ykz. Of course, the 2 people on the Koshi wagon would probably argue that their wagon is a "main wagon" as well.
On June 20 2014 19:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
BH, I'm not a newbie player. I know that similarities does not necessarily mean the same alignment, but previous games can give you insights into their mind. Particularly a scum qt can be enlightening. It told me mderg is someone that thinks before he posts as scum, which is a point against him being scum this game.
I'm not up for a mderg lynch at this point in time. I am up for a Koshi lynch though.
##Unvote
##Vote Koshi
I would note that the "mderg made a mistake" thing isn't the only difference that happened this game. Look at the actual filters themselves. In detention, as scum, mderg is conversational, active, posting a lot, and generally going back and forth with the town a lot. In this game he has fewer, bigger posts with large gaps between them. Why don't you mention this?
You don't mention this because you know as well as I do the the change in amount of content and amount of conversationalism from mderg is a symptom of him watching the world cup (or whatever it is he's doing) and having less time for mafia. Of course, if he has less time for mafia, as scum he'd be far more prone to mistakes, and he'd make mistakes he didn't make in detention mafia, like forgetting who he was townreading in the same post as his vote post.
The fact of the matter is, even setting aside that particular piece of meta, and even saying "mderg doesn't normally do this as scum" about his play this game, there's no way that the post I'm talking about comes from a town player. Is it like, a little weird that mderg would make such a screw up as scum? Sure, he didn't screw up the same way last game, when he had a LOT more time to play. But you know what explanation makes even LESS sense? It would make much less sense if he were town. Read that post again, and ask yourself, "does a 27nb vote make sense at the end of this post?"
the answer is no, it does not make sense. mderg is scum.
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On June 21 2014 04:28 Chezinu wrote:Love it's all about love and friendship. What do you think about lazermonkey? How do you feel about being spare for the sake of being a replacement?
Imo it makes sense to give replacements a full cycle to get into the game and contribute. Let Koshi live for today. What do you think about mderg?
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On June 21 2014 05:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I thought his case was pretty decent. I feel like my reads are utter shit this game though, so just gonna go and sheep you. ##Unvote
##Vote YouKnowZhou
After I flip, lynch Artanis[Xp] just for this post, honestly. I'd consider him after mderg but before snickers.
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On June 21 2014 05:48 slOosh wrote:
Could I get your thoughts on VE please?
I was legit gonna just give you a flippant response, because it's hilarious, but you DID say please so I can't let you down.
About his activity today, he's mostly posted a large case on Mderg, called me scummy ish, then voted me but not mderg despite my amazing case on mderg, to which he has not actually responded. He also seems to be defending the intelligence of the scumteam (link), which makes me think he could be scum, especially since VE doesn't think I'm smarter than him. He's been unusually unuseful this game, but honestly I consider mderg's earlier shit to be substantially worse. VE is reasonably likely to be shot for bluehunting/vetshooting reasons, so I'd give him another day. I'd vote him if it was him or me of course, but i don't consider him a priority.
The other thing that sticks out is him refusing to read me, then giving me a scumread when I'm AFK for a while. Very opportunistic, but honestly VE is not very smart and could have come to that conclusion based on my inactivity. There are plenty of people just voting me because I'm kinda a dick rather than actual scumhunting reasons, which will make it tough to actually catch scum on my wagon if I do end up flipping today. Since mderg wasn't in any real danger of getting lynched over 27nb, the townie, it also ties in with VE's relaxed D1. No need to throw your hat into the ring or give a read on BH if your'e scum and there's a mislynch train rolling.
All this though is substantially shakier than the mderg read. Nothing here screams scum, just a few things whispering it.
I'd rather we lynch Mderg.
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On June 21 2014 06:02 Lazermonkey wrote:
Please look at Koshi's filter and look ät all thé scum hunting he has done... Owait.
Vote him.
As a matter of policy, I do not lynch players right after they replace in. I leave them alone for a full cycle. I find this typically works pretty well; people need time to get their shit together usually.
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On June 21 2014 06:05 VisceraEyes wrote:
I like how BH didn't even SAY what he thinks about me in spite of writing two whole paragraphs on it.
This lynch is fucking amazing.
Not a good lynch today.
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I'm pretty sure most of the people on me are just on me cause I was flippant while having dinner for 48 hours, and just want to lynch me for emotional reasons. The rest are scum. There's no case against me besides me being afk for a bit and being dickish when I was around. My case on mderg is actually solid. If I'm getting lynched today, that is acceptable, but I would like everyone voting me to provisionally treat me as a confirmed townie from now until the deadline, and discuss the mderg case with me. If I'm scum, hey, it's a waste of time, but maybe I'll give something away. Since I'm town, I think it's the best legacy I can leave you guys to win after a second mislynch. I'd rather not just be mislynched and forgotten about. I'm here and willing and ready to respond to all questions.
If you're voting me, treat me as conftown and let's discuss the next lynch. What do you think of mderg?
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On June 19 2014 20:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
Ready To Read BH Yet?
Meeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhh........................I think he might be mafia. He hasn't had any direct interactions with me due to timing and our respective AFK periods, but frankly the bunnies push felt contrived to begin with, and that he stuck with it only to see her flip green raises red flags to me. He makes a special point to say how GODLY he is at Mafia too, insinuating how BAD he is at town right? Sounds like preknowledge of his main target's flip to me. It's a weak read, but he's my worst read. I put it off because I was scurd, but now I might get lynched and it doesn't matter if I scurd anymore. I think he's mafia based on what's in the thread.
Does this accurately summarize your reason for scumreading me?
Also, can you be specific about who you like and don't like on the wagons?
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On June 20 2014 22:56 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 19:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
BH, I'm not a newbie player. I know that similarities does not necessarily mean the same alignment, but previous games can give you insights into their mind. Particularly a scum qt can be enlightening. It told me mderg is someone that thinks before he posts as scum, which is a point against him being scum this game.
I'm not up for a mderg lynch at this point in time. I am up for a Koshi lynch though.
##Unvote
##Vote Koshi This is also a good point brought up. Everyone that is voting mderg should explain why they vote him very very clearly and why the reason you vote him makes him scum. Explain how that action isn't likely to have come out of a newbie town player also.
Lazermonkey, is this the big reason you are not voting mderg? What about the fact that he's clearly busier this game, does that negate that statement for you? Do you still read him as "confused townie"?
Are you still "slightly scummy" on me? Why or why not?
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On June 21 2014 06:49 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 06:17 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 19 2014 20:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
Ready To Read BH Yet?
Meeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhh........................I think he might be mafia. He hasn't had any direct interactions with me due to timing and our respective AFK periods, but frankly the bunnies push felt contrived to begin with, and that he stuck with it only to see her flip green raises red flags to me. He makes a special point to say how GODLY he is at Mafia too, insinuating how BAD he is at town right? Sounds like preknowledge of his main target's flip to me. It's a weak read, but he's my worst read. I put it off because I was scurd, but now I might get lynched and it doesn't matter if I scurd anymore. I think he's mafia based on what's in the thread.
Does this accurately summarize your reason for scumreading me? Also, can you be specific about who you like and don't like on the wagons? What do you care? I'm too stupid to be reasoned with.
Come on, man, I'm gonna get lynched anyways, just answer the question so I can develop some reads before I flip. I don't want to leave nothing behind when I become conftown. Don't be a dick.
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On June 21 2014 06:50 Release wrote:
YKZ, you say that mderg was unfocused which I believe is accurate. However, you say "If you didn't see his vote there at the bottom of the post, and just read the post itself, you would have NO IDEA that he was voting 27nb." For whom do you think he should have voted considering what he says in his posts?
He doesn't give a real scumread in his post. If you remove the ##vote from the post it actually makes more sense. He shouldn't have considered voting anyone based on what he wrote. Take a look at the post without the ##vote 27nb, and you realize that the##vote 27nb doesn't actually make sense.
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On June 21 2014 06:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Looking at the first post Release quoted of Snickers, it reminds me of mderg's post but it looks worse to me. Mderg's post mentioned all relevant posts whereas Snickers goes off giving null reads on people who hardly posted so far. What's also interesting is how Snickers changed his read on you after momentum swung in favour of that read, with VE and goodkarma chiming in, which is mighty coincidental. It's unfortunate that he's a smurf/new player so I can't check meta 
As I mentioned, I do want to lynch Snickers. I like the Release case but I doubt there's any real way to make Snickers happen over me today. I'd prefer mderg; I think he's more likely to flip town; but the inconsistencies that Release has pointed out make Snickers a more acceptable lynch today. Artanis, would you lynch Snickers today?
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On June 21 2014 07:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 06:58 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 21 2014 06:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Looking at the first post Release quoted of Snickers, it reminds me of mderg's post but it looks worse to me. Mderg's post mentioned all relevant posts whereas Snickers goes off giving null reads on people who hardly posted so far. What's also interesting is how Snickers changed his read on you after momentum swung in favour of that read, with VE and goodkarma chiming in, which is mighty coincidental. It's unfortunate that he's a smurf/new player so I can't check meta As I mentioned, I do want to lynch Snickers. I like the Release case but I doubt there's any real way to make Snickers happen over me today. I'd prefer mderg; I think he's more likely to flip town; but the inconsistencies that Release has pointed out make Snickers a more acceptable lynch today. Artanis, would you lynch Snickers today? I probably would.
Even with the two of us together, it's just 2 votes on Snicks, which isn't any better than the 2 votes on mderg, whom I would rather lynch. Release isn't voting Snicks, so I'd rather keep my vote on mderg. If it turns out lynching Snicks becomes a real possibilty (ie Release votes him etc) then I'm on board, but until then I think mderg is a better choice. I'll see if I can find stuff in mderg's later filter that might be more convincing.
Aside from the fact that it seems mderg wouldn't make this mistake as scum since he was more careful in the previous game, do you have any other hesitations about him being scum? Or is the case itself just not convincing enough, hesitations nonwithstanding?
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On June 21 2014 07:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 07:04 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 21 2014 07:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 21 2014 06:58 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 21 2014 06:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Looking at the first post Release quoted of Snickers, it reminds me of mderg's post but it looks worse to me. Mderg's post mentioned all relevant posts whereas Snickers goes off giving null reads on people who hardly posted so far. What's also interesting is how Snickers changed his read on you after momentum swung in favour of that read, with VE and goodkarma chiming in, which is mighty coincidental. It's unfortunate that he's a smurf/new player so I can't check meta As I mentioned, I do want to lynch Snickers. I like the Release case but I doubt there's any real way to make Snickers happen over me today. I'd prefer mderg; I think he's more likely to flip town; but the inconsistencies that Release has pointed out make Snickers a more acceptable lynch today. Artanis, would you lynch Snickers today? I probably would. Even with the two of us together, it's just 2 votes on Snicks, which isn't any better than the 2 votes on mderg, whom I would rather lynch. Release isn't voting Snicks, so I'd rather keep my vote on mderg. If it turns out lynching Snicks becomes a real possibilty (ie Release votes him etc) then I'm on board, but until then I think mderg is a better choice. I'll see if I can find stuff in mderg's later filter that might be more convincing. Aside from the fact that it seems mderg wouldn't make this mistake as scum since he was more careful in the previous game, do you have any other hesitations about him being scum? Or is the case itself just not convincing enough, hesitations nonwithstanding? There's been a lot of things that made me think of mderg as town. The way he had the same idea about 27nb's reasons for reading me as town, the meta, the way he commented on all relevant things when he entered the thread and got straight to the point all felt townie to me. From the two games I read of him, I felt he played worse when he was town than when he was scum. I don't feel the current cases are convincing of him being scum, but rather of him playing poorly, which I would sooner attribute to him being town. The carefulness factors into that.
I understand what your'e getting at, though I won't pretend I am convinced. I'm willing to get on board with a Snickers wagon, he's my second favorite lynch choice and if it saves me, it saves me. The mderg case isn't perfect, and the biggest imperfection is the 2 factor change in meta from last game (carefulness, conversationalism) when he was scum. I chaulk this up to him being busy with world cup, but I will admit that the "he's actually town" explanation is in fact plausible. I also think some of the stuff snickers has done (ie peacing out, claiming he has 'contributed enough for the day') really raises my hackles. He has contributed less, and in a way is objectively more scummy than mderg because of how he addresses people (giving out nullreads, etc). If it weren't for mderg's nonsensical vote I'd be on snickers (as I was earlier today).
I still think, however, that the nonsensical vote counts for something. It feels like a 'scumslip' argument, but I don't really think it is. It's about whether or not you'd really have a coherent thought process through your post as town or scum. You say he's a careful guy, more careful as scum than as town, and this is often the case. I know it's the case for me. IT's why scumslips are generally false arguments. I think this vote is more about revealing his intentions and the integrity of his thought process. It's not about caution or brazneness. but about whether or not he's thinking through the thoughts he puts into his posts.
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On June 21 2014 07:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 07:16 Chezinu wrote:On June 21 2014 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'm still on the market for lynching Koshi. A triple lynch today would be nice honestly. Do you know why VE thinks release and sloosh are town? I can tell from the way he's interacted with slOosh in his filter why he does. He's also made it explicit why he likes Release. I'm not sure how he got the initial reads of me being towny and those two being scummy though as he flipped all three of those reads throughout the day in a very linear fashion, but I'm willing to scribble that up to not reading properly the first time around.
I think we can definitively say that VE during his first pass of the thread wasn't paying a huge amount of attention (ex: the confusion about YKZ/BH).
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Chezinu, I have a question for you about Snickers. What do you think of the most recent case posted against him by Release, and what do you think about Snickers explicitly leaving the thread and declining to contribute for the rest of the day?
Also, I'm having trouble finding a mention of my case on mderg in your filter. Can you point me towwards it, or offer some input?
On June 21 2014 07:08 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 06:04 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 21 2014 06:02 Lazermonkey wrote:
Please look at Koshi's filter and look ät all thé scum hunting he has done... Owait.
Vote him. As a matter of policy, I do not lynch players right after they replace in. I leave them alone for a full cycle. I find this typically works pretty well; people need time to get their shit together usually. Its been a full cycle now. Not even kidding.
I know, but I consider him to have replaced in at the 27nb lynch. He didn't really have time to formulate reads or do anything D1. After D2 ends, then he's fair game, but that's just the policy I roll with. It works. It could entirely be true that Koshi is scum, but on the whole it makes sense to not lynch people for a full cycle after they get in, and that doesn't mean "not lynch him until 3 hours before the end of the day, then lynch him" because that's BSey. The point is, the guy gets a free pass on a lynch for one day. I understand you disagree, but don't worry, Koshi isn't getting lynched today anyways. Once I'm gone, who will oppose you?
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On June 21 2014 07:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 07:21 Chezinu wrote:On June 21 2014 07:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 21 2014 07:16 Chezinu wrote:On June 21 2014 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'm still on the market for lynching Koshi. A triple lynch today would be nice honestly. Do you know why VE thinks release and sloosh are town? I can tell from the way he's interacted with slOosh in his filter why he does. He's also made it explicit why he likes Release. I'm not sure how he got the initial reads of me being towny and those two being scummy though as he flipped all three of those reads throughout the day in a very linear fashion, but I'm willing to scribble that up to not reading properly the first time around. Are you afraid of what people will think about you and slOosh after the flip? I am not afraid of getting lynched at all. I've never gotten mislynched as town before, it's not happening now. Speaking of which, BH, do you still want me lynched for that one post?
Hilariously enough, you utterly abdicating critical thinking responsibility for your vote on me does not even put you in my top 4 scumreads right now. I wish it did. But it doesn't. What a game! Barring some changes, you're probably not in my list of "lynch these people first" that I'll leave when I die.
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On June 21 2014 07:26 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 07:22 YouKnowZhou wrote:Chezinu, I have a question for you about Snickers. What do you think of the most recent case posted against him by Release, and what do you think about Snickers explicitly leaving the thread and declining to contribute for the rest of the day? Also, I'm having trouble finding a mention of my case on mderg in your filter. Can you point me towwards it, or offer some input? On June 21 2014 07:08 Lazermonkey wrote:On June 21 2014 06:04 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 21 2014 06:02 Lazermonkey wrote:
Please look at Koshi's filter and look ät all thé scum hunting he has done... Owait.
Vote him. As a matter of policy, I do not lynch players right after they replace in. I leave them alone for a full cycle. I find this typically works pretty well; people need time to get their shit together usually. Its been a full cycle now. Not even kidding. I know, but I consider him to have replaced in at the 27nb lynch. He didn't really have time to formulate reads or do anything D1. After D2 ends, then he's fair game, but that's just the policy I roll with. It works. It could entirely be true that Koshi is scum, but on the whole it makes sense to not lynch people for a full cycle after they get in, and that doesn't mean "not lynch him until 3 hours before the end of the day, then lynch him" because that's BSey. The point is, the guy gets a free pass on a lynch for one day. I understand you disagree, but don't worry, Koshi isn't getting lynched today anyways. Once I'm gone, who will oppose you? Why would I read cases? Who do you think I am?
super duper chezinu tier tldr
mderg's first post is a bunch of relevant townreads. he votes a townread in that post, 27nb.
what do you think of mderg
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EPT
