Normal Mini Mafia LVI - Page 2

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

June 18 2014 20:29 GMT

#465

I did - I gave reasoning for thinking mderg was mafia and espoused a very clear townread of the counterwagon.

You can disagree with the degree, but the actions are here in this thread for all to see.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

June 18 2014 20:31 GMT

#466

Like this notion that my not being here somehow CAUSED town to mislynch is absurd.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

June 19 2014 11:40 GMT

#494

Why I Believe Mderg Is Mafia
and Other Short Stories

The Post In Question

So my contention with mderg's original post still stands. Here are my expanded reasons for thinking his first post is mafia.

1) comes in and gives a weak reasoning for his vote - like, he thinks that her focus on the scumslip is somehow suspicious, but frankly I see way more town harping on about scumslips than mafia. Further, he doesn't even really state how anything else she does is suspcious - this is his only reasoning for finding bunnies suspicious (unless you count "between BH and bunnies, BH is more townie, ergo, bunnies is mafia"....I don't).

2) though he claims it was unintended, he DID leave the post with the feeling that he probably wouldn't be back. I mean, that's obviously subjective but when someone uses the phrase "I'll hopefully post more tomorrow" that leads me to believe that there's some doubt there (hence the hopefully part). This leads me to agree with GK's analysis (at the time - not sure where GK left off with mderg at the time of writing this) that he was scum hoping to be able to lurk out the rest of the day.

3) slOosh mentioned this earlier, but Artanis never really made a case on Release, but mderg likes his case on Release.

Further Evidence

I'm having a hard time following mderg's read on Snickers. Apparently earlier he thought Snickers' posting was free of mafia-mindset, which generally speaking is a town-lean or at the very least null, but now apparently Snickers is mderg's only mafia read (everyone else is null or leans town). Except for me I guess, but since this

On June 19 2014 04:44 mderg wrote:
I´m not even remotely interested in talking about the life, the universe and everything with you.

I don´t have any other clear scumreads but Snickers seems suspicious with how he asked these "newbie questions" but still knows his shit. he also focused on very small pieces of information and bad wording. Spoilered examples.
+ Show Spoiler +

On June 16 2014 12:44 Snickers wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 16 2014 12:35 27ninjabunnies wrote:

On June 16 2014 12:32 Snickers wrote:

On June 16 2014 12:14 27ninjabunnies wrote:

On June 16 2014 12:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:

On June 16 2014 12:03 27ninjabunnies wrote:

On June 16 2014 11:59 slOosh wrote:
What is this "limited information" that you guys are getting at?

On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.

I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.

What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay?

What's truly amazing here is what an awesome example this is for Kenpachi Rule Extended. Even after I call it you're still doing it. Assuming you do in fact flip scum I'll have to write a post game analysis just on the first few pages of this game. Maybe I could tie it in with a general Kenpachi and Kenpachi Rule Extended / Zephirdd Rule tutorial. I'm getting more excited by the minute!

BH I thought you were some amazing mafia player?

Obviously not because YOU ARE WRONG ON ME!

And I'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game.

See the statement is suspicious to me "i'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game." why the end of the game. It could easily be prove "wrong" the first night. "wrong" as in if your lynched and shown as town. Or if YKZ is lynched and showed scum.

I am just trying to show where I think 27nb is thinking in a strange way. Maybe she just thinks that way normally.

I do not think the kenpachi rule can be proven wrong. I think it can be proven to not be 100% right though. I think saying it is wrong is stating it has no merit at all. I already explained why i thought a scum could potentially claim VT day one to attempt for an advantage.

Also sloosh thanks for posting. I think this kenpachi rule should still be discussed a little more, but I see where you think we should stop the seeming rigmarole.

I'm saying by the end of the game because I'm not getting lynched today! Straight up!

And if I do, I'm going down swinging.

And if that's the case, I will prove it's not 100% right as you say.

And how am I thinking ina strange way?

I've blatantly and straight forwardly laid out my case for you.

I think you are thinking in a strange way because of my post you are responding to. I said that YKZ could be lynched and showed as scum. That would also prove the kenpachi rule as not 100% right. You responded to that and still did not understand that you could not be lynched and the rule could be shown as not 100% right at day one, not the end of the game.

Also it think it is weird how confident you were with saying "Obviously not because YOU ARE WRONG ON ME" but then you say by the end of the day. If i was being confident about proving someone wrong. I would have said, I could prove you wrong, even by day one with these one of these two lynches showing these respective outcomes, but will for sure prove you wrong by the end of the game.

On June 16 2014 15:02 Snickers wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 16 2014 10:49 YouKnowZhou wrote:

On June 16 2014 10:47 goodkarma wrote:

On June 16 2014 10:36 YouKnowZhou wrote:

On June 16 2014 10:33 goodkarma wrote:

On June 16 2014 10:21 27ninjabunnies wrote:

On June 16 2014 10:16 goodkarma wrote:

On June 16 2014 10:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:

On June 16 2014 09:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I don't like that he wants to ignore me completely. And that he has to immediately come out and say he is vt.

On June 16 2014 09:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
So ##Vote: YKZ

Kenpachi Rule

##vote 27ninjabunnies

Kenpachi rule?

So rumor has it, There is a guy, called Kenpachi, and at the game start, he says "hi, i am Kenpachi and i am a townie."

The first guy casting doubt on that dude is always scum, that's the "Kenpachi rule"

It's a stupid rule, and has no basis to why I am reading YKZ as scum.

On June 16 2014 10:27 YouKnowZhou wrote:

On June 16 2014 10:16 goodkarma wrote:

On June 16 2014 10:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:

On June 16 2014 09:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I don't like that he wants to ignore me completely. And that he has to immediately come out and say he is vt.

On June 16 2014 09:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
So ##Vote: YKZ

Kenpachi Rule

##vote 27ninjabunnies

Kenpachi rule?

The Kenpachi rule, named after its author Kenpachi, is a TL adage reflecting the idea that without a clear and better motivation for a vote, it is almost certainly a scumtell when a player votes a player who claimed VT at the start of the game.

Kenpachi's rule, in broader form, is:

Without a blantant display of humor, a vote on a vt claim comes almost always from a scum player.

The core of Kenpachi rule is that a vt claim by its nature is not suspicious to a town player, who isn't hunting for blues. Without a clear motivation for a vt claim, it looks odd to scum, who want to attack someone safely. A corollary of the Kenpachi rule is the reverse phenomenon: the first vt claim is almost always sincere.

These definitions don't exactly match up...

You can search it on TL for urself, but it's not about claiming townie, as 27ninjabunnies asserts. The rule is about claiming vanilla townie. Basicly, scum want to jump on something, and a VT claim looks basicly not intresting to a townie who isn't hunting for blues. It looks unique though to someone who is hunting for blues: scum.

But knowing all of this, couldn't you say you're VT regardless of alignment, bait someone's suspicion and then claim Kenpachi rule?

I'm having trouble understanding why at the very start of the game scum would be more prone to jumping on something that looks scummy. I mean if scum's job is to blend in, why be the first to vote and make a case? There's always scrutiny that comes with doing so...

I understand your concern. Let me elucedate: Kenpachi's rule actually works. Your concerned bcuz you assume a townie would vote a vt claim so scum could claim vt then a townie votes and gets "baited". Your concern is wrong bcuz a townie would never do this. this is part of the kenpachi's rule.

the next part is that you assume it looks scummy, which it isn't. scum would never claim vt bcuz scum wants to be able to fakeclaim blue at lylo or sumthing. scum wants to blend in but they are jumpy silly folk. kenpachi rule always works, bcuz it never fails. tyvm

Also thought it should be pointed out that YKZ says the kenpachi rule "almost always" works and then says it "always works" without showing that his knowledge of the ruled changed between the posts.

When we make posts we should try to stop assuming things. Thanks everybody for helping me with my posting and questions.

On June 17 2014 16:07 Snickers wrote:

Show nested quote +

gk what is your read on mderg?

I think its weird how he has only posted one thing. He sorta offers an excuse for that. The thing i find most weird is "I'll hopefully post more tomorrow". ..... I do not think somebody that is town would say hopefully i will post more after posting one post.

Other than that I only have null and townreads.

comes AFTER this

On June 19 2014 04:14 mderg wrote:

Show nested quote +

Not enough passion!

VE seems really scummy. At the start it seemed like he didn´t really care about this game with the BH vote. Then he points out something about Release which kinda suggests a scumread but then never mentions him again.
He then calls sloosh scum and makes a case but kinda drops it instantly and instead votes me for imo weak reasons. He then stays on me without giving any additional reasons.

This is very strange play, he´s kinda focusing on sloosh but doesn´t want to commit whereas he wrote like 2 lines about me but is heavily convinced that I´m scum. It´s like he just wanted to be on the safer and easier target.

I have to assume that something changed between them and that I'm now either null or town.

Speaking Of That VE Read...

I'll speak to this post now though. Everyone is entitled to just a little troll at the beginning if they want to partake. I thought BH was trolling into our game, so I trolled him back a bit for shits. He is ACTUALLY in the game though, so it was really just a bad joke made even worse by facts I wasn't aware of. Be that as it may, that doesn't mean I don't care about the game. I gave my thoughts on what was happening briefly and yes I AFK'd for a while. Deal wid it. I do that as town more than I do that as mafia these days. I mentioned something about Release because Artanis had made, by my estimation, a decent point on him. However, as I've explained (that he says I never mention him again is either a lie or evidence that mderg is not reading before he types, take your pick), I started townreading Release based on his response to Artanis and the content he provided AFTER Artanis' original point. He's also misrepresenting my stance on slOosh - it's true that I thought slOosh was mafia early on based on how he was questioning people. However I made it abundantly clear that I didn't "immediately" drop it, in fact I never /REALLY/ put it in the thread to begin with - I spoiled it because it was, in my opinion, a bad case without the points I felt made it the strongest, his read on Artanis.

Ready To Read BH Yet?

Meeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhh........................I think he might be mafia. He hasn't had any direct interactions with me due to timing and our respective AFK periods, but frankly the bunnies push felt contrived to begin with, and that he stuck with it only to see her flip green raises red flags to me. He makes a special point to say how GODLY he is at Mafia too, insinuating how BAD he is at town right? Sounds like preknowledge of his main target's flip to me. It's a weak read, but he's my worst read. I put it off because I was scurd, but now I might get lynched and it doesn't matter if I scurd anymore. I think he's mafia based on what's in the thread.

How About Dems Other Players?

Fuck it, they're all town because I think probably 2 mafia. Suck it noobs.

No really, I'll answer questions I guess about other players, but after reading Artanis I'm willing to give him at least today to prove he's townie if others are willing to go with me on PREFERABLY mderg, but possibly BH as well.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

June 19 2014 12:09 GMT

#496

I'm scumreading both BH and mderg. So yes. If there are 2 I think they did. If there are three, I'd have to consult my notes and confer with my townies.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

June 19 2014 12:12 GMT

#497

That's not even the point. My point was about his Snickers read and how I'm not sure how he gets from point A to point B. You're right though, I guess the "other" could mean that he's more suspicious of me and Snickers is the addition, I missed that I guess. But I still think he mafia regardless.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

June 19 2014 12:20 GMT

#498

That list is Snickers/Release/LM. Blah. I should really solidify my read on Snickers/LM this cycle.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

June 19 2014 12:33 GMT

#499

On June 19 2014 05:07 slOosh wrote:

Show nested quote +

If you have specific things in his filter that you want to talk about, great, let's do that, but you will need to clarify what exactly you have problems with. I understand if you want to play a more laid back style of play, but if you want me to back off, give me something to work with, otherwise there's no reason for me to stop.

I think that based on how D1 went down, scum weren't in much danger of getting lynched, as I think mderg is town. In this position, scum tend to be lazy / laid back. In some sense lurkers who drop by to keep up appearances, but not really care about where the lynch lands.

VE your profile fits this. Again, if you want me to back off, give me something to work with.

slOosh I think that in general your description would accurately illustrate a likely strategy mafia could/would employ based on the information we have now. I think that your observation is fair that I fit this category on reflection, and regret my harsh words to the contrary.

I also realize that my scumread of BH does NOT fall in line with this line of thinking, so I ask how you're reading BH right now. Is it simply that you've constructed this likely scenario and that BH does not fit into it? If so I ask that you consider that BH is a crazy mofo and fucks up whatever plan you think you have about what mafia /could/ or /would/ do. If not I'd like to know your full reasoning for townreading/not suspecting BH.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

June 19 2014 12:53 GMT

#501

On June 17 2014 09:11 mderg wrote:
I think Snickers has been posting strangely. As if he wanted to play the newbie card without stating that he´s new. His general thought process doesn´t show a scum mindset, though. I didn´t really like where he talked about associations between bunnies and VKZ. IMO pre-flip associations are bad most of the time.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

June 19 2014 18:40 GMT

#525

##Vote: YouKnowZhou

Takes 12 hour dinner, does not mention porkchops. ez rares.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

June 19 2014 18:48 GMT

#529

On June 20 2014 03:43 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vanilla town but this fact sound have been non obvious to the scrum team. They happened to be correct not to rb me but they did it for the wrong reasons. Hence idiots. I happened to be incorrect about nb but my reasons are solid. Hence I am a God

I'd like you to qualify your statement of "scum are idiots" when the evidence (nothing but mislynches, presumably not RBing you when you're vanilla town, your complete lack of a further scum candidate so far) points to the exact opposite at least from where I'm sitting.

Like from where I'm sitting, you've gone on and on about how "GODLY" you are at mafia, so you saying scum are idiots this game serves no purpose but to make yourself seem LESS mafia by association (mafia so bad, you so good, hence you aren't scum) when that's from my perspective not even a read you can currently have on the situation.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

June 19 2014 18:58 GMT

#535

On June 20 2014 03:55 Koshi wrote:

Show nested quote +

What mislynches VE?

I'd prefer if you not ask me specific questions that can be answered by simply thinking about it Koshi. The only lynch we've had this game so far has been a mislynch. Obviously that's what I'm referring to.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

June 19 2014 19:02 GMT

#537

On June 20 2014 03:59 Chezinu wrote:

Show nested quote +

Do this mean we are going to perform operation Eel Ears?

The Sheriff is watching. We must act in disguise in order not to be shotgunned. If we say the wrong things The Sheriff will kill us. Sorry for wasting your time, The Sheriff demands it.

Chez you seem reticent this game, even for you. Can you hook us up with some actual content? I'd even settle for Chez content (content shrouded in mystery and intrigue) over what I'm presently getting from you.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

June 19 2014 20:38 GMT

#541

ANYWAY, I think we can all agree that VE is like blatantly and obviously town. If BH has nothing to add but posturing and bullshit then I think he makes a fine lynch today. A) he has a higher-than-average chance of flipping mafia, and B) he's clearly not trying to help us win regardless of his alignment. mderg at least has the balls to come at me, BH is like practically begging for my vote.

slOosh I'd like your full read on Lazermonkey at your convenience. I'll look at Snickers, then sometime tomorrow we'll switch! OH THE SPIRIT OF COOPERATION!!

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

June 19 2014 21:09 GMT

#543

On June 20 2014 05:39 YouKnowZhou wrote:
How can I be begging for your vote when I already have it? Hah, can't argue with that logic, VE.

That was way less than twelve hours scum.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

June 20 2014 04:36 GMT

#561

Encryption is disallowed explicitly in the rules.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

June 20 2014 05:01 GMT

#563

Well played C. Well played.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

June 20 2014 14:32 GMT

#598

Chez I would like an explanation of your vote. Otherwise you stand to lose everything tonight.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

June 20 2014 16:41 GMT

#609

Plz lynch BH or mderg thx. Consolidation ftw. slOosh disappearing makes me sad. We had much to discuss.

Chezinu voting for me is confusing. Make him tell you why he's doing it. Lazermonkey and Snickers are disappeared too. But hey, at least I'm back and posting and townie as fuck right?