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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
@fuba You should weigh in at some point whether you think your case on sqrt stands, or if anything has changed to make him more or less suspicious to you. Your case yesterday basically got ignored because the focus was on slOosh vs M_Z, it's something I think we should discuss at least somewhat tomorrow. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Haru wants to lynch "everyone on sloosh's 'death list'" If you look at slOosh's death list, would you list each player Haru wants to lynch? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Here's what I was getting at- Haru says he wants to lynch according to slOosh's death list. If it's everyone on the list, then it would go M_Z -> gobble (already dead) -> bunnies -> (maybe Palmar? he is only mentioned in relation to bunnies) -> Fuba -> Me It's unclear if he means the same order, but it seems strange that he would reference the list when I'm on it and he's townreading me. I am not sure what Haru's current read of bunnies is, so I guess I don't know if it is consistent that she is on the list. I'll say if he Haru did mean the same order slOosh had, it is also inconsistent with his other posts around the same time where he wants lynch M_Z, then Palmar (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=43#857). As an aside, this post by Haru is also weird- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=42#837 Here, he is indicating if slOosh's flipped scum and gobble was not modkilled, we would have followed slOosh's last post and suspected gobble. But, slOosh flipped mafia... so I feel like the natural response would be to mistrust what mafia says in their final posts. (maybe I'm just salty because Haru is more willing to sheep a dead mafia than me :D) | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On June 02 2014 05:06 Alakaslam wrote: Oh lol sloosh only wants to kill m-z Lol Yeah exactly You can read Haru as saying he only wants to kill the people slOosh list as scum. But in that case, Haru's post makes no sense - why would he follow a "list" of one person? If you read it the other way, that he wants to lynch everyone slOosh mentioned regardless, it includes me and bunnies, and maybe include Palmar and maybe doesn't, which is also weird. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On June 02 2014 05:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I'm actually happy dying for the cause since I'm not gonna lie I've played a very shitty game. My one request is that you all agree to lynch a target of my choice after I die. So you think your play is bad, but you want us to sheep you on a lynch? :| | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
You shouldn't be limited to just the things I asked you about. @M_Z I am not going to agree to lynch someone you pick just to get content from you that you should be providing already :x | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
As before, of you are roleblocked or medic saved, claim it in your first post of the day (scum will know that information anyway). My reads right now are as follows (town to scum): Ninjabunnies / Mderg Alakaslam Fuba Palmar Sqrt HaruRH / M_Z I’ll give explanations where I can. I’m not certain on anyone, but I feel good on my ninja and mderg townread, at least. Towny! I read mderg as town because I agree with his posts again and again. I like that moved from M_Z to slOosh for reasons I obviously thought were valid, but I also don’t feel he needed to bus a teammate (slOosh) to try to get town cred. 27Ninjabunnies hasn’t been as active, but feelings are pretty similar. When she gives me thoughts, they are usually feel in line with mine. I saw her play shift between active and inactive in another newbie game where she was town, so her low activity doesn’t bother me right now. Towny? Slam: is a weaker read. His play is not super towny, but when he does comment I usually like it. I don’t know if he was actually here during the D2 vote shifting (he posted a while before saying he was in and out, and posted a while after) but he didn’t swap votes and this suggests he could have. Fuba? - Don’t like that Fuba joined the conversation d2 making a case on sqrt, particularly since it seemed like he was just dropping in. The case felt out of place, he should have commented on slOosh or M_Z off the bat. - Really disliked this comment in fuba’s case on sqrt: On May 31 2014 15:45 fuba wrote: His reason for unvoting jabber and voting palmar was that lynches like that end up being wrong. It turns out that he was right, but isn't that a really, really strange reason to unvote someone when you have legitimate reasons to believe he's scum in front of you? I really disliked that fuba criticizes sqrt for these grounds for vote swapping, but then begins to read slOosh as town on reasons that feel quite similar. - I really don’t like that fuba townread slOosh. Fuba was convinced partly because slOosh, when talking about me, (“took it a step farther and said not to trust him if he tries to push anything other than MZ D3”). To me, slOosh was just making a post that lets him cast doubt on me in any situation – why would it be scummy if I push anyone but M_Z? First, if I felt slOosh and M_Z were scummy for the same reasons, but slOosh moreso, wouldn’t I then say “okay, slOosh is town, M_Z is less scummy than slOosh, therefore M_Z is probably town?” Second, I had already given doubts on Haru (twice) – why would it be scummy if I pushed Haru? I just didn’t find these comments from slOosh to be reasonable or convincing so I was pretty baffled when fuba said he townread slOosh for them. Fuba is not lower on my list because I have to recognize that slOosh’s post convinced some town to move, so I can’t paint with a broad brush and say moving or changing reads off that is inherently scummy. I like that he was pushing some on gobble. His case on sqrt was ill-timed, but it did feel like he was trying to figure out the game. If he was scum, I think he would be more likely to try to use his time to push M_Z as the viable alternative to slOosh, rather than making a case on sqrt just then. Palmar I don’t like that Palmar felt his case on M_Z was a “slam dunk” with 95% confidence, yet didn’t push his case as much as I would expect or try to get votes to go with him for a large portion of the day. I don’t like that when Palmar did begin push people to vote with him, it was based more on the support of a slOosh lynch, not on any merits of his case on M_Z, which he clearly felt were very good. I don’t like that Palmar wanted people to swap wagons because one was “too easy” – this feels wrong when his D1 comment was that that you should vote for you think is scummier. Not as bad in context, though. Despite that, I still think it is possible townplay, largely because I think M_Z is a fair wagon. I dunno. If M_Z flips town, I think we all end up wishing we got more comments out of Palmar. ... Tough for me to pick whose play I like least among sqrt, haru, and M_Z. I am a little better on sqrt but not for great reasons. sqrt I think a lot of what applies to Haru/M_Z (below) also applies to sqrt. It’s just, for sqrt I have seen him be a very jumpy/undetermined town player before, so his acts feel a little more excusable than Haru/M_Z. - I think it’s weird he was reading me as scum from my push (I said repeatedly I had a better case, why would I swap off of it or not want people to go on it) but so did Haru so eh. M_Z is a less scummy version of slOosh to me in content, except he is less active. I think he’s a good lynch tomorrow. A lot has been said about him, I don’t need to add much at the moment. Haru continues to feel suspicious. I put some thoughts on him earlier, and again in the thread tonight. - Haru’s posts at the end of N2 seem like he’s trying to suddenly overrepresent himself as a confused town. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=42#822: Regardless of whether slOosh flipped town or scum, does anyone think Haru becomes the likely night kill? (If you die tonight Haru, sorry, I just feel that’s not very likely) - As I wrote earlier tonight, his post-flip reactions to slOosh’s last post feel off to me. - I think it’s weird he was reading me as scum from my push (I said repeatedly I had a better case, why would I swap off of it or not want people to go on it) but so did sqrt so eh. Right now I think I'd lynch M_Z before Haru. It's worth getting resolution, and anyway if we push Haru then Palmar spends another day just saying he'd rather lynch M_Z. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Please explain your Alakaslam comment. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
I won't discuss the merits of your point on Slam at this moment. If you are wrong on Slam, who is your second pick as scum? @Haru: We have 2 of 3 roles (watcher, medic, cop). This means we have to have either a watcher or a medic, potentially both. Since most people townread me, I figure the player(s) probably watched/protected me. - If we have a medic, scum probably only shoot me after they kill/ID the medic (or if they think I am the medic since I can't save myself). - If we have a watcher, scum probably only shoots/roleblocks me after they kill/ID the watcher (or if they think I am the watcher since I can't save myself). - If we have both, it's both of the above, except moreso. Anyway, since no blues have died there's a fair chance I'll be alive tomorrow too :3 we'll see. It's all WIFOM vs WIFOM for that kinda stuff. So far, I think there's two things that make me think one of these roles is very likely in the game. I'll share it but I'd like to see everyone join thread and state if they were roleblocked, first. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
- If we have a cop, cop knows 0-2 confirmed town. If cop got a red check last night or gets one soon enough, it's gg. - If we have a watcher & medic, the watcher may know who the medic is now (if both targeted me). - If no one visited me besides the watcher, odds are fair that we have watcher/cop. It's a newbie game, so it's possible that the players wouldn't think about these things. Anyway, none of the above is certain, it can all be wrong if people (mafia or town) are trying to be tricky. :3 | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
unless it's cop with a red check of course  | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On June 02 2014 10:31 HaruRH wrote: Now that I think of it, only the roleblocker is left as scum. If slam is mafia, he can easily claim roleblock on n1 without roleblocking anyone. Do you think scum would trade the benefit of this for the use of their roleblock? If they did this, do you think it is a good move or bad move? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On June 02 2014 10:21 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Slam claimed rb which confirms him as town unless he's lying. Leaving a confirmed townie alive is a cardinal sin. + Show Spoiler + http://i.imgur.com/Kwn5cZZ.jpg It's not a terrible point, but I don't think it is compelling. There's a couple reasons, but to me the easiest to explain is that something which "confirms him as town unless he's lying" really isn't any confirmation at all. I mean, by this standard, if you tell me that you are town, that confirms you as town (unless you are lying). Anyway, Slam isn't my top town but I feel like you could do better if you tried. I feel the best defense for M_Z (which he didn't offer) is this: If M_Z and slOosh are both scum, it means that M_Z is roleblocker. When M_Z and slOosh were the lynch candidates, you would think scum would prefer to lynch slOosh (goon) over M_Z (roleblocker). Instead, slOosh made a post which was (apparently) compelling and started to move people toward M_Z over slOosh. I don't find that to be sufficient. ##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh We still have a day I think, so for the living please don't be lazy and talk about each other. Sheeping me isn't particularly helpful since M_Z is the major wagon anyway; if you think M_Z isn't the lynch or someone else is better, we should talk about it sooner rather than later. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
I'll look at em tomorrow at your pick | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
- I think M_Z is a fair lynch, there's a justifiable complaints on his play- I feel like he is just the "less scummy" slOosh. But, I'm willing to entertain other lynches. - Earlier you said you were suspicious of fuba - could you let me know what you were thinking on that point (if it still applies)? @Palmar: I don't really expect you to push a lynch other than M_Z, and that's fine. But, I don't like that you haven't really offered anything or weighed in on anything unrelated to M_Z for a while. Do you have any thoughts on Haru / Alakaslam / fuba / you would share? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On June 03 2014 02:22 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Here's something that might (but probably isn't) prove to be important. Gobble was modkilled, not replaced. IMO nothing can or should be read from that. Blazinghand is firm with his rules. @sqrt and @Palmar: On June 02 2014 16:15 Amiko wrote: (cut) I feel the best defense for M_Z (which he didn't offer) is this: If M_Z and slOosh are both scum, it means that M_Z is roleblocker. When M_Z and slOosh were the lynch candidates, you would think scum would prefer to lynch slOosh (goon) over M_Z (roleblocker). Instead, slOosh made a post which was (apparently) compelling and started to move people toward M_Z over slOosh. (cut) Do you have any thoughts on this point? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
We know slOosh is goon. If M_Z is scum, he is roleblocker. I think it was became clear that one of those two players was going to get lynched d2. If you were scum in that situation, if all other things were equal, you would probably want the roleblocker (M_Z in that case) to survive. However, slOosh fights to survive the lynch, M_Z does not. This suggests that maybe if they were both scum, slOosh would have preferred M_Z die instead of himself. I just want to know if you think that argument makes sense, and if you disagree, what part you disagree with. For me, I don't find it sufficient (though I guess I didn't go through the reasons) but I thought it was worth talking about, especially since it feels like people aren't really playing anymore. | ||
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