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On May 28 2014 05:23 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 05:15 Amiko wrote:On May 28 2014 05:11 Chromatically wrote:On May 28 2014 04:00 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Assume jwz is town. Why would he push a case on chromatically that makes no sense? He knows that chrom wasn't mafia.
His case is invalid. I think this is scummy given that sqrt had access to this information all the time (he was in the thread when jabber "slipped"). Here was his reaction at that time: On May 27 2014 11:22 sqrtofneg1 wrote:On May 27 2014 11:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Counter point: he could have been super into last game because he was mafia, and isn't as into being vanilla town. Nope. Last game, you, amiko, and epi was mafia. Zat counter point is invalid. Doesn't call him scum for it at all. Even later, he only once calls him scum, but just for being thrown off his alphabet game. Now, however, when the jabber lynch has a lot of traction, he jumps on without any reasoning for changing his mind. There are plenty of additional points against jabber concerning his reaction, but that's not the justification sqrt gave. sqrt's explanation for his vote is inconsistent with how he originally reacted to jabber's post. Could you clarify - are you suggesting that (1) sqrt changed his mind from town to scum? or (2) that sqrt changed his mind from neutral to scum? Please also clarify if you feel sqrt would be a good lynch alternative to jabberwockzerg My point was that sqrt previously did not have a scumread from that post, and now he wants to lynch jabber for that post with no additional justification, meaning that he's fabricating his read (I guess this is option 2). But, it is possible that he just reread it and changed his mind, as he says. This was just one sqrt post I had a problem with, still want to lynch jabber by a long shot. sqrt, is that jabber post the main reason why you are voting him? Like that's the best piece of evidence in your opinion?
The fact that his post here:
On May 27 2014 11:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Counter point: he could have been super into last game because he was mafia, and isn't as into being vanilla town.
Doesn't make any sense from a town perspective.
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You know what, I'm abandoning my letter z thingy. I need to focus.
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I think that his slip is the strongest point against him so far.
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No, I'm just saying that I believe the strongest point against him is the slip.
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On May 28 2014 06:33 mderg wrote:
Overall it´s just strange how almost everyone jumps on the wagon. IMO most lynches like this end up being wrong.
Actually, yes, this is true.
According to my previous experiences (cruisette mislynch in liii, cav mislynch in liv, sweetfrost mislynch and yellow suspection in lv), most lynches like this end up being wrong.
My second scum choice is palmar.
##Unvote
##Vote: Palmar
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Actually, now that I think of it, it would yield more information to kill off jwz.
##Unvote
##Vote: jabberwockzerg
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My point is this: Huge bandwagons always seem to be town bandwagons.
(cruisette mislynch in liii, cav mislynch in liv, sweetfrost mislynch and yellow suspection in lv, OdinofPergo in golden sun)
Jwz is my top scum read so far.
I was considering pushing a palmar lynch because he's my second scum read, and huge bandwagons always seem to be wrong.
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You know what else I don't like?
Amiko's not as active as he usually is.
Yes, he's making big posts and big cases.
Yes, he has been the most substantial player so far, in terms of post content.
But he's not as active.
Other games, he's always around, asking people questions and the like.
This game, not so much.
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Personally, from irl experience, you definitely want to lynch for information. That's how I play.
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It's not a problem. Yet.
I just think that's a bit unusual.
I have my eye on him.
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So, what of my playstyle do you not like MZ?
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On May 28 2014 09:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 09:09 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
So, what of my playstyle do you not like MZ? If you are suspicious of someone, push them. If you don't feel you have enough evidence yet then sit back and wait until you have enough evidence or you decide your suspicion was wrong. Don't post vague accusations.
That's how I play.
I post every little single thing I think of. I post every little single piece of doubt. I post every little single piece of suspicion.
I'll bring into light what I feel will be helpful to know, even if it is a tiny piece of evidence.
That's how I play, and if you don't like it, too bad.
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Bunnies, can you tell me what you think of mderg?
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On May 28 2014 09:33 27ninjabunnies wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 09:28 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Bunnies, can you tell me what you think of mderg? Sure. So mderg comes into the thread not liking the lynch on jabber, he believe jabber's slip isnt a slip at all. Just bad play. O find it a bit weird he wants to lynch fuba over jabber, and i didnt really see a reason as to why in his filter, only that fuba was against the lynch of jabber, and now he is not. Also i agree with him that everyone jumping on the wagon is a bit here. If jabber is mafia, mderg could be as well for this hard defense of him. If jabber is town, mderg could be a hipster mafia trying to gain town credibility. Both scenerios points to him as mafia. I just dont see him as town, except that he is pretty sure jabber is a mislynch here,
Thanks for answering.
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On May 28 2014 09:40 jabberwockzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 09:23 Chromatically wrote:jabber can you address here please On May 28 2014 05:05 Chromatically wrote:Finally back at a computer. I'm totally fine lynching jabber for obvious reasons, but I still would like to hear him answer the things I asked him. Here's the points I've had against him (partially stuff I've already said): -He deliberately lied this game. As town, he would have had no reason to even think about lying. As scum, he could have felt like he should add something to the conversation/was nervous/a number of other explanations for a mistake. Yes, it's bad play as either alignment. But imagine yourself as town in his situation: there's no way you would lie about it. -His explanations are inconsistent: + Show Spoiler +On May 27 2014 11:50 jabberwockzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 11:44 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 27 2014 11:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Counter point: he could have been super into last game because he was mafia, and isn't as into being vanilla town. So let me spell it out. It has to do with this post here. You were a squirrel eating nuts last game, were you not? Yet here, you say he could have been super into the last game because he was also sniffing the maple. Yet, he wasnt. You were. And you didnt know that that knowledge was made public to us. So either you are defending Chrom/slightly bussing here because he is your partner in crime, or you are again down among the badgers as you said chrom was leading more towards being a grim reaper in a town full of sickness, and you want to get him lynched. Clearing this up, I didn't mean mafia specifically, just non vanilla. Was this bad wording? Yes. Stupid of me? Yes. Learning experience, definitely "I didn't mean mafia, I just meant non-vanilla. Bad wording." On May 28 2014 00:21 jabberwockzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 23:50 gobbledydook wrote:
Palmar I think there is actually a good motivation for him to say those words. If he had not read the last mafia qt to find out who was mafia and only relied on his memory and impressions, he would logically make that comment about differing playstyles. Sure what he said is factually incorrect but I believe it was an honest mistake.
Just like this I mean, I know this looks bad but this really is a case of Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" Here he agrees with gobble, who's saying that jabber didn't read the last mafia QT or didn't remember who was mafia (obviously not true)..? And also that it was an honest mistake. On May 28 2014 00:36 jabberwockzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 00:26 Palmar wrote:On May 27 2014 23:50 gobbledydook wrote:
Palmar I think there is actually a good motivation for him to say those words. If he had not read the last mafia qt to find out who was mafia and only relied on his memory and impressions, he would logically make that comment about differing playstyles. Sure what he said is factually incorrect but I believe it was an honest mistake.
He even posted in that QT, so he read it. On May 28 2014 00:21 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Just like this
I mean, I know this looks bad
but this really is a case of Hanlon's razor:
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" Well explain to me what your point was meant to accomplish? I'm all ears buddy. Keenly, I was trying to think of everything, leaving no stone upturned. I guess I got trapped under one of these stones "I was trying to think of every possible scenario." On May 28 2014 01:14 jabberwockzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 20:59 Chromatically wrote:Also, read this whole page again: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=5bunnies starts by (presumably) joking about me being scum, not a serious push as evidenced by not voting. On May 27 2014 11:19 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Both of you make a fair point, but I agree with bunnies.
If he's lurking (he probably is) he'll be quick to post something, which we can further use as more information comes to light This is jabber's passive-agressive response. "he probably is" heavily implies that jabber has a strong scumread on me, which clearly doesn't make sense given that I've made one completely non-alignment indicative post. From a scum perspective, it makes sense for jabber to try to go with the flow of the thread and throw suspicion on me, but accidentally take it too far. On May 27 2014 11:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Counter point: he could have been super into last game because he was mafia, and isn't as into being vanilla town. On May 27 2014 11:21 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Definitely leaving towards scum though Again, here he makes it seem as if he strongly thinks I'm scum, which just doesn't make sense unless he has a preset idea of what he wants to push my alignment as. Lovely. I was trying to get the game moving along, I was pretty pumped to start interrogating and scum reading, which isn't how I acted last game, when I was scum. Lying about who was scum last game, I was trying to conceal information. I didn't realize that last game's roles were known, it would be beneficial for me if no one knew I was Mafia, just because there would be no real patterns of my play, and I could remain a wild card, which I thought could help me later. "I was trying to conceal information to help me in this game." These are all inconsistent with each other: it cannot be an "honest mistake" if he was deliberately concealing information, he clearly didn't mean that I could have been "non-vanilla", not necessarily mafia, if he was concealing information, etc. He's changing his explanation because he's just making them up: he doesn't have a real reason. -His last explanation is scummy in and of itself, town has no reason to make themselves harder to read. -He didn't explain himself earlier when he had the opportunity. Town would have explained themselves as soon as they were called out. ##Vote: jabberwockzerg Certainly Basically, I thought concealing information about myself would help me out in the long run. This belief, and the later admission of it, came from a fundamental misunderstanding of how this game is really played. This is what caused my initial post, and my explanations. Now, I'm learning more about what goes down and that as town, especially as town, the most important thing is to just be clear and honest and try to find the real scum. This game is a lot more fun and layered than I first thought, and I can't wait to sink my teeth in. It's really looking like a lynch at this point, so I'm grateful this shitstorm happened because I learned so much from it.
I like this post.
Here's his reason for concealing information: it would help him out in the long run.
I think he's town now.
##Unvote
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He's new. That's why he thought concealing info would help.
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Palmar is my top scum read so far.
##Vote: Palmar
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On May 28 2014 09:55 27ninjabunnies wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 09:53 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
He's new. That's why he thought concealing info would help. Did you read the mafia qt? He basically was like, "should i play the noob card?" I think him being new is not indicative of him being town.
True.
Well, what about my argument that all of these D1 wagons always seem to hit town?
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On May 28 2014 09:56 Chromatically wrote:
Why is palmar scum please
On May 28 2014 05:20 sqrtofneg1 wrote:Hi amiko! Palmar makes this post here, claiming that bunnies was mafia. Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 18:34 Palmar wrote:
Ninjabunnies is mafia, I'm going to vote him. Then I'm going to read another page of the game.
##Vote Ninjabunnies
it's because he wrote "XD" When gobble asked him if it was a troll he said this: Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 18:43 Palmar wrote:On May 27 2014 18:41 gobbledydook wrote:On May 27 2014 18:40 Palmar wrote:On May 27 2014 18:36 gobbledydook wrote:On May 27 2014 18:34 Palmar wrote:
Ninjabunnies is mafia, I'm going to vote him. Then I'm going to read another page of the game.
##Vote Ninjabunnies
it's because he wrote "XD" ??? Did you become crazy after getting ##Nuked in that other game? Do you not think this is a valid case? At least you have to explain to me why you disagree. I think it's a pretty strong case. I should add that I combine it with the "ugh" from his first post, oh and his plea that "can we now hunt some scum?". Seems pretty ironclad to me. No I don't think that's a valid case, I think you're trolling. I'm not, why do you think I'm trolling. Granted, I'm only about 2 pages or so into the game as we speak, + skimming Ninja's filter. But I feel pretty good about this. Could you elaborate on why you think I'm trolling? Or at least if there is something you don't understand in my case, ask for an explanation? He denies that this is a joke. And he hasn't done anything to promote his case against bunnies. No questions, no nothing. Only voting jwz. Until I say that I don't like palmar. And then, soon after, he says that he likes bunnies now. Seems like he's avoiding my suspicion. also, my last post didn't have a z in it..... I think I might desert this rule thingy.
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On May 28 2014 09:58 Chromatically wrote:
I'm trying to read through jabber's posts and see if this explanation is possible from a town perspective. The problem I'm reaching is that it would have to be really really bad town play, like completely bullshitting and making stuff up for no reason.
This.
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EPT
