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Okay guys, question time.
After jwz's lynch, what can you gather from his filter?
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On May 30 2014 02:52 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 08:52 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:45 Palmar wrote:
MZ not everyone in the game is mafia. fuba and haru look bad, jwz is your most likely scumread and you could get behind a lynch on me, and now you're telling sqrtofneg1 that he might be mafia, while in the same breath explaining to him how he can get you to drop your "suspicion".
Welcome to my scum tier. Actually I didn't call sqrt scum, I was pointing out something that he's done which isn't helpful. I can have him correct that behavior and thus improve the town environment and maybe teach him something at the same time (which is after all the point of the game). Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 16:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:K sqrt I'm starting to have a serious problem here. You go from this: On May 28 2014 10:19 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Here's what I think is going to happen, according to the sqrtofneg1 rule.
jwz is gonna be lynched, gonna flip vt.
Palmar is gonna end up scum.
I honestly don't think anyone will move their vote away from jwz. I don't expect anyone to, also.
But I kind of think he's town. To this: On May 28 2014 10:25 Chromatically wrote:
sqrt why are you not convincing people to vote for Palmar? On May 28 2014 10:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Cause I don't think it will happen.
And I also think there's a good chance that jwz is scum too. You can't "think he's town" and think he's scum too" at the same time. This is actually pretty scummy imo. Oh hey 27NB: On May 28 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 28 2014 10:59 Chromatically wrote:
this is quite possibly the finest scumhunting tl has seen in ages Hey im scumhunting.... So im thinking, Team for mafia: Jabber/Sqrt/mderg Or Jabber/palmer/mderg Something like that, Id lynch both jabber and mderg though I also am really digging this post here although I disagree with mderg and I'd insert someone else, who I'm not sure of yet. So Palmar, just so the record is straight, now I'm calling sqrt scum for clearly contradicting himself in an attempt to be vague and not get caught supporting the wrong person. Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 17:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 29 2014 11:33 Chromatically wrote:On May 28 2014 19:44 Chromatically wrote:
MZ, what's your reasoning for Palmar being scum? MZ answer this please, regardless of whether you hold the read now. What was your reasoning at the time? My reason for wanting to lynch Palmar was stated here: On May 28 2014 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:57 Palmar wrote:
No you just implied that what he was doing looked like something mafia might do.
If you're town, I would have expected this
"If you leave it vague like this, you're never going to convince anyone of following your example or agreeing with your read."
Because that sentence isn't loaded with agenda, like yours was
"If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand."
I may be reading too much into this, but it's bad form. If you want to affect his playstyle, don't do it in the same breath as you threaten him with a scumread.. I really don't think I threatened him with a scum read at all. I said that something he was doing could be seen as scummy. I never said that I thought he was scum because of what he was doing. And I'm not a fan of your insinuations that I'm calling everyone mafia. I have thus far stated my support for a jwz lynch, discussed that I'm looking at Haru and Fuba as possibilities for scum because of their defense of jwz (they've both responded, I haven't really reevaluated them yet), and I've stated I would support a lynch on you. That was primarily because you were acting like you didn't give a shit which I've seen in the past to be scumpalmar. That's not randomly flinging around accusations as you suggest. At this point I'm not as convinced of Palmar's scumminess anymore because he's come in and been contributing a lot more than I would have expected out of scum Palmar. At the moment I don't have a burning scum read, I am probably most suspicious of sqrt because of the way he seems to drift with the general opinion of the thread like a willow in the wind. However I'm not sold that makes him scum yet, I wanna see him post for a little while longer before I make my mind up. ???
That's called a progression of a read sloosh. As you can see, at first I was not suspicious of sqrt and was simply pointing things out about his play for him to fix, then he posted more and I changed my mind because of new information. This is typically how one processes facts in a changing environment. I literally outline what's going on in the second post you quoted.
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On May 30 2014 03:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2014 02:52 slOosh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:52 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:45 Palmar wrote:
MZ not everyone in the game is mafia. fuba and haru look bad, jwz is your most likely scumread and you could get behind a lynch on me, and now you're telling sqrtofneg1 that he might be mafia, while in the same breath explaining to him how he can get you to drop your "suspicion".
Welcome to my scum tier. Actually I didn't call sqrt scum, I was pointing out something that he's done which isn't helpful. I can have him correct that behavior and thus improve the town environment and maybe teach him something at the same time (which is after all the point of the game). On May 28 2014 16:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:K sqrt I'm starting to have a serious problem here. You go from this: On May 28 2014 10:19 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Here's what I think is going to happen, according to the sqrtofneg1 rule.
jwz is gonna be lynched, gonna flip vt.
Palmar is gonna end up scum.
I honestly don't think anyone will move their vote away from jwz. I don't expect anyone to, also.
But I kind of think he's town. To this: On May 28 2014 10:25 Chromatically wrote:
sqrt why are you not convincing people to vote for Palmar? On May 28 2014 10:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Cause I don't think it will happen.
And I also think there's a good chance that jwz is scum too. You can't "think he's town" and think he's scum too" at the same time. This is actually pretty scummy imo. Oh hey 27NB: On May 28 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 28 2014 10:59 Chromatically wrote:
this is quite possibly the finest scumhunting tl has seen in ages Hey im scumhunting.... So im thinking, Team for mafia: Jabber/Sqrt/mderg Or Jabber/palmer/mderg Something like that, Id lynch both jabber and mderg though I also am really digging this post here although I disagree with mderg and I'd insert someone else, who I'm not sure of yet. So Palmar, just so the record is straight, now I'm calling sqrt scum for clearly contradicting himself in an attempt to be vague and not get caught supporting the wrong person. On May 29 2014 17:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 29 2014 11:33 Chromatically wrote:On May 28 2014 19:44 Chromatically wrote:
MZ, what's your reasoning for Palmar being scum? MZ answer this please, regardless of whether you hold the read now. What was your reasoning at the time? My reason for wanting to lynch Palmar was stated here: On May 28 2014 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:57 Palmar wrote:
No you just implied that what he was doing looked like something mafia might do.
If you're town, I would have expected this
"If you leave it vague like this, you're never going to convince anyone of following your example or agreeing with your read."
Because that sentence isn't loaded with agenda, like yours was
"If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand."
I may be reading too much into this, but it's bad form. If you want to affect his playstyle, don't do it in the same breath as you threaten him with a scumread.. I really don't think I threatened him with a scum read at all. I said that something he was doing could be seen as scummy. I never said that I thought he was scum because of what he was doing. And I'm not a fan of your insinuations that I'm calling everyone mafia. I have thus far stated my support for a jwz lynch, discussed that I'm looking at Haru and Fuba as possibilities for scum because of their defense of jwz (they've both responded, I haven't really reevaluated them yet), and I've stated I would support a lynch on you. That was primarily because you were acting like you didn't give a shit which I've seen in the past to be scumpalmar. That's not randomly flinging around accusations as you suggest. At this point I'm not as convinced of Palmar's scumminess anymore because he's come in and been contributing a lot more than I would have expected out of scum Palmar. At the moment I don't have a burning scum read, I am probably most suspicious of sqrt because of the way he seems to drift with the general opinion of the thread like a willow in the wind. However I'm not sold that makes him scum yet, I wanna see him post for a little while longer before I make my mind up. ??? That's called a progression of a read sloosh. As you can see, at first I was not suspicious of sqrt and was simply pointing things out about his play for him to fix, then he posted more and I changed my mind because of new information. This is typically how one processes facts in a changing environment. I literally outline what's going on in the second post you quoted.
What has sqrt done that you would consider him town?
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On May 30 2014 03:17 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2014 03:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 30 2014 02:52 slOosh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:52 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:45 Palmar wrote:
MZ not everyone in the game is mafia. fuba and haru look bad, jwz is your most likely scumread and you could get behind a lynch on me, and now you're telling sqrtofneg1 that he might be mafia, while in the same breath explaining to him how he can get you to drop your "suspicion".
Welcome to my scum tier. Actually I didn't call sqrt scum, I was pointing out something that he's done which isn't helpful. I can have him correct that behavior and thus improve the town environment and maybe teach him something at the same time (which is after all the point of the game). On May 28 2014 16:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:K sqrt I'm starting to have a serious problem here. You go from this: On May 28 2014 10:19 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Here's what I think is going to happen, according to the sqrtofneg1 rule.
jwz is gonna be lynched, gonna flip vt.
Palmar is gonna end up scum.
I honestly don't think anyone will move their vote away from jwz. I don't expect anyone to, also.
But I kind of think he's town. To this: On May 28 2014 10:25 Chromatically wrote:
sqrt why are you not convincing people to vote for Palmar? On May 28 2014 10:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Cause I don't think it will happen.
And I also think there's a good chance that jwz is scum too. You can't "think he's town" and think he's scum too" at the same time. This is actually pretty scummy imo. Oh hey 27NB: On May 28 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 28 2014 10:59 Chromatically wrote:
this is quite possibly the finest scumhunting tl has seen in ages Hey im scumhunting.... So im thinking, Team for mafia: Jabber/Sqrt/mderg Or Jabber/palmer/mderg Something like that, Id lynch both jabber and mderg though I also am really digging this post here although I disagree with mderg and I'd insert someone else, who I'm not sure of yet. So Palmar, just so the record is straight, now I'm calling sqrt scum for clearly contradicting himself in an attempt to be vague and not get caught supporting the wrong person. On May 29 2014 17:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 29 2014 11:33 Chromatically wrote:On May 28 2014 19:44 Chromatically wrote:
MZ, what's your reasoning for Palmar being scum? MZ answer this please, regardless of whether you hold the read now. What was your reasoning at the time? My reason for wanting to lynch Palmar was stated here: On May 28 2014 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:57 Palmar wrote:
No you just implied that what he was doing looked like something mafia might do.
If you're town, I would have expected this
"If you leave it vague like this, you're never going to convince anyone of following your example or agreeing with your read."
Because that sentence isn't loaded with agenda, like yours was
"If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand."
I may be reading too much into this, but it's bad form. If you want to affect his playstyle, don't do it in the same breath as you threaten him with a scumread.. I really don't think I threatened him with a scum read at all. I said that something he was doing could be seen as scummy. I never said that I thought he was scum because of what he was doing. And I'm not a fan of your insinuations that I'm calling everyone mafia. I have thus far stated my support for a jwz lynch, discussed that I'm looking at Haru and Fuba as possibilities for scum because of their defense of jwz (they've both responded, I haven't really reevaluated them yet), and I've stated I would support a lynch on you. That was primarily because you were acting like you didn't give a shit which I've seen in the past to be scumpalmar. That's not randomly flinging around accusations as you suggest. At this point I'm not as convinced of Palmar's scumminess anymore because he's come in and been contributing a lot more than I would have expected out of scum Palmar. At the moment I don't have a burning scum read, I am probably most suspicious of sqrt because of the way he seems to drift with the general opinion of the thread like a willow in the wind. However I'm not sold that makes him scum yet, I wanna see him post for a little while longer before I make my mind up. ??? That's called a progression of a read sloosh. As you can see, at first I was not suspicious of sqrt and was simply pointing things out about his play for him to fix, then he posted more and I changed my mind because of new information. This is typically how one processes facts in a changing environment. I literally outline what's going on in the second post you quoted. What has sqrt done that you would consider him town?
He thinks I'm scum.
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MZ read:
Odd that he says he'll be voting jabber in his first post, but doesn't vote him. As for his read on myself in the next few posts, I can understand it, given the TL mindset that uncertainty and the voicing of that uncertainty is way more a scum trait. Palmar's case on him is pretty null for me, since I see the MZ post that started it all to be pretty average. I don't see the scummy mindset that Palmar claims is there. Then he becomes suspicious of sqrt for being inconsistent and such, which I don't see as a strange read from MZ, though I don't think it necessarily makes sqrt scum, rather than a confused/perplexed townie like I was.
Overall, pretty null, slight scum lean for saying he's voting jabber but waiting forever to actually do it. Seems like he could have been fishing for a better lynch candidate, or he could have just forgotten XD
Refreshed and saw what SlOosh posted. I think the first quote is pretty irrelevant, since the evidence MZ used against sqrt in the second quote falls after the first one (I'm reasonably sure). But the second one definitely feels like something I'd only say as town if I was really sure I felt sqrt was scum, so the third quote is really suspicious. MZ doesn't say, "I'm no longer sure it makes sqrt scum", as if he's reassessed his opinion. He says he's not sure it makes him scum yet, as if he hasn't formed an opinion yet. Very strange considering that he made it clear that he'd given it some thought and already come to a conclusion.
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On May 30 2014 03:17 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2014 03:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 30 2014 02:52 slOosh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:52 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:45 Palmar wrote:
MZ not everyone in the game is mafia. fuba and haru look bad, jwz is your most likely scumread and you could get behind a lynch on me, and now you're telling sqrtofneg1 that he might be mafia, while in the same breath explaining to him how he can get you to drop your "suspicion".
Welcome to my scum tier. Actually I didn't call sqrt scum, I was pointing out something that he's done which isn't helpful. I can have him correct that behavior and thus improve the town environment and maybe teach him something at the same time (which is after all the point of the game). On May 28 2014 16:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:K sqrt I'm starting to have a serious problem here. You go from this: On May 28 2014 10:19 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Here's what I think is going to happen, according to the sqrtofneg1 rule.
jwz is gonna be lynched, gonna flip vt.
Palmar is gonna end up scum.
I honestly don't think anyone will move their vote away from jwz. I don't expect anyone to, also.
But I kind of think he's town. To this: On May 28 2014 10:25 Chromatically wrote:
sqrt why are you not convincing people to vote for Palmar? On May 28 2014 10:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Cause I don't think it will happen.
And I also think there's a good chance that jwz is scum too. You can't "think he's town" and think he's scum too" at the same time. This is actually pretty scummy imo. Oh hey 27NB: On May 28 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 28 2014 10:59 Chromatically wrote:
this is quite possibly the finest scumhunting tl has seen in ages Hey im scumhunting.... So im thinking, Team for mafia: Jabber/Sqrt/mderg Or Jabber/palmer/mderg Something like that, Id lynch both jabber and mderg though I also am really digging this post here although I disagree with mderg and I'd insert someone else, who I'm not sure of yet. So Palmar, just so the record is straight, now I'm calling sqrt scum for clearly contradicting himself in an attempt to be vague and not get caught supporting the wrong person. On May 29 2014 17:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 29 2014 11:33 Chromatically wrote:On May 28 2014 19:44 Chromatically wrote:
MZ, what's your reasoning for Palmar being scum? MZ answer this please, regardless of whether you hold the read now. What was your reasoning at the time? My reason for wanting to lynch Palmar was stated here: On May 28 2014 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:57 Palmar wrote:
No you just implied that what he was doing looked like something mafia might do.
If you're town, I would have expected this
"If you leave it vague like this, you're never going to convince anyone of following your example or agreeing with your read."
Because that sentence isn't loaded with agenda, like yours was
"If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand."
I may be reading too much into this, but it's bad form. If you want to affect his playstyle, don't do it in the same breath as you threaten him with a scumread.. I really don't think I threatened him with a scum read at all. I said that something he was doing could be seen as scummy. I never said that I thought he was scum because of what he was doing. And I'm not a fan of your insinuations that I'm calling everyone mafia. I have thus far stated my support for a jwz lynch, discussed that I'm looking at Haru and Fuba as possibilities for scum because of their defense of jwz (they've both responded, I haven't really reevaluated them yet), and I've stated I would support a lynch on you. That was primarily because you were acting like you didn't give a shit which I've seen in the past to be scumpalmar. That's not randomly flinging around accusations as you suggest. At this point I'm not as convinced of Palmar's scumminess anymore because he's come in and been contributing a lot more than I would have expected out of scum Palmar. At the moment I don't have a burning scum read, I am probably most suspicious of sqrt because of the way he seems to drift with the general opinion of the thread like a willow in the wind. However I'm not sold that makes him scum yet, I wanna see him post for a little while longer before I make my mind up. ??? That's called a progression of a read sloosh. As you can see, at first I was not suspicious of sqrt and was simply pointing things out about his play for him to fix, then he posted more and I changed my mind because of new information. This is typically how one processes facts in a changing environment. I literally outline what's going on in the second post you quoted. What has sqrt done that you would consider him town?
At this point I don't consider him town.
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On May 30 2014 03:01 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2014 02:21 fuba wrote:On May 29 2014 15:14 slOosh wrote:On May 29 2014 07:09 fuba wrote:
As for what he's said about MZ, I'd have to form an opinion of MZ for myself first XD Hey fuba, could we get one of these before night ends? Yuppers. Probably. Definitely look at gobble, and let me know what you think. Nothing really eyebrow raising with what he has done, as much as what he hasn't. Given the circumstances of D1, most people fall under this so it's a matter of seeing how they contribute with the D2 lynch.
Situation:
Jabber is set to be lynched. Gobble votes jabber. I post a pretty null read about gobble. Gobble responds with what I can only assume is a scum read of me, with one of the reasons being that I jumped on the bandwagon of the same person that he is currently voting for. So before the flip, he's using my jabber vote as evidence of me being scum, even though according to his posts and vote he also thinks jabber is scum. Scum Fuba was one of the first people to jump on the easy scum jabber wagon. In what world does this make sense? A world in which gobble already knows that jabber is town.
(Side note: I've been thinking that I was second or third on the jabber wagon, rather than 4th. Anything I've said about "starting the wagon" is redacted XD I still feel that my point regarding gobble holds)
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So I spent a long time trying to make that post really clear, but I think it just came out really confusing.
Basically, gobble was claiming that I'm scummy for jumping on a wagon that he himself thought was going to lynch scum. This makes no sense unless he actually knows that jabber is town, and is letting that knowledge color his fake read of me. He essentially said, "You're scummy for jumping on this mislynch wagon." This only works if he already knows it's a mislynch.
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On May 28 2014 16:49 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 16:43 Palmar wrote:On May 28 2014 13:55 slOosh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:51 Palmar wrote:If someone isn't following why that last MZ post raises alarms ( aside from the fact he's calling everyone mafia), I'll explain. On May 28 2014 08:42 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
You know what else I don't like?
Amiko's not as active as he usually is.
Yes, he's making big posts and big cases.
Yes, he has been the most substantial player so far, in terms of post content.
But he's not as active.
Other games, he's always around, asking people questions and the like.
This game, not so much. You've thrown around a lot of suspicions this game. Instead of making a vague statement like this, interpret what it means. If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand. Instead tell us why this is a problem, maybe provide some examples if you're gonna cite his meta. The bolded quote is very much not trying to figure out i's alignment. If MZ thinks there is any chance i is mafia, why is he trying to stop i from digging his own grave under the threat of "if you keep doing this I'll be suspicious of you!!!!". This looks like MZ wants to read i as town, while still looking like he's poking people. Palmar could you please explain your MZ read more? Which part of it do you not get? "If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand." This is basically saying "If you don't elaborate, you're acting like mafia". When in reality if MZ is town, he shouldn't care whether or not i acts like mafia, but if he is mafia. If MZ is town and thinks i is town his logical explanation should be "If you don't elaborate, you won't convince anyone". Because if MZ thinks i is town, he wouldn't care about i doing something potentially scummy for the sake of it being scummy, and rather because it is not helpful. However if MZ thinks i is mafia, why is he explaining the steps i can take to remove any suspicion MZ might have to him. It's like me saying "hey, you just made a case that is wrong, that is very mafia like. please make another case that is right so I don't have to call you mafia." It's just an absurd way of playing the game. The only reasonable conclusion is that MZ must think i is town, and thus it makes no sense for MZ to point out something i does looks like something mafia does. The reason I created in my head is that MZ knows i is town, and doesn't feel the need to call him mafia right now, but does leave the open-ended suspicion for use later. Palmar that's honestly one of the worst posts I've ever seen you make and does nothing to change my opinion on your alignment. It seems as though you called me out, misjudged the thread's perception of me, and are now trying to back out of the read.
If I die tonight.
MZ is like 95% mafia. His response to me here has nothing to do with what I was saying in the post. Like it's beyond obvious he's not reading the argument at all and all he wants to do is discredit me.
What I was doing: Explaining why I thought MZ was mafia
What MZ claims I was doing: Trying to back out of the read.
The two are mutually exclusive damnit. I was explaining my read to someone who wasn't following it in hopes of convincing them, which is literally the opposite of trying to back out of a read.
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Other things.
i looks slightly less good, but I still think he's town.
Ninja too, I feel like her activity is dropping, or I'm not noticing much useful come out of her.
Chrom looked really good yesterday.
Amiko looks pretty town for now. He thinks I'm town for the right reasons. (This is important, mafia members know I'm town, he seems to have figured out that I'm town by actually reading the thread and analyzing it). If you ever clear this guy, follow him. He seems to be really good, but I hope he's really good town, not really good mafia 
mderg has that one post that screams town (I hope he's mafia so I can be like super impressed  ). I'm going with town for him
fuba looks better than I initially thought, he's sort of null-ish to me now, but I'd not lynch him tomorrow. I liked how he responded to me erroneously calling him out, so I'm backing slightly off on scumread. But he's still in the bottom half of the table.
sloosh is just meh. I have no idea tbh.
Slam is also meh. Both of them (sloosh and slam) are good cop checks. This is the first game I've actually thought to myself "slam looks sorta townie here", so that's making me nervous, as I fully admit I can't read the guy.
MZ is mafia
gobbley I don't know. I thought he was town at first, but he had really low content last time I checked his filter. So idk.
Lynch MZ tomorrow, pressure sloosh, fuba, gobbley. Slam or any of the previously mentioned are pretty good checks.
Also because most of you haven't played with me before. I usually super miss one mafia. So don't follow my reads blindly even if they give you 1-2 mafia.
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I agree with most of Palmar's post above. I need to give Chrom a more in-depth read but he seemed town when I was looking at him yesterday.
I like Slam a little more than Sloosh, but both are still a little difficult to read for me. I just thought it was kinda weird that they were interacting with each other so much, and Sloosh had a comment or two on Slam that seemed a little strange... not sure. I will try to ask Sloosh some questions tomorrow.
@Palmar: Could you explain your read on Haru? He wasn't in the list in your last post, and you had said somewhat recently you thought he was probably town (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=23#456).
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(I'm not sure on Palmar's point re: MZ yet, I agreed with most of the rest)
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On May 29 2014 04:14 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 04:07 Amiko wrote:
@slOosh:
I'm writing now and seeing what I find. I can post what I have and continue I suppose.
Btw I asked you for a read on Alakaslam a little earlier since a fair number of your posts seemed to focus on him, can you give me any comments?
@27ninjabunnies: Nothing personal bunnies, but I'm going to ignore that post unless you give me anything to write about :x Oh I must have missed it. His posting style as is this game seems fine. I was more concerned if he was going to take it all the way ala last game, which is cause for concern as making your posts intentionally harder to read usually only makes sense from scum perspective.
I haven't looked at your past games, but have you played with or read Alakaslam before?
He sometimes has chaotic/silly posts so I feel like although your point (confusing posts makes sense from scum) may not apply so much in this case.
Is there any particular reason you seem to focus attention on him on d1? If you disagree with that characterization let me know.
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M_Z posted this a bit ago.
On May 30 2014 03:25 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2014 03:17 slOosh wrote:On May 30 2014 03:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 30 2014 02:52 slOosh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:52 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:45 Palmar wrote:
MZ not everyone in the game is mafia. fuba and haru look bad, jwz is your most likely scumread and you could get behind a lynch on me, and now you're telling sqrtofneg1 that he might be mafia, while in the same breath explaining to him how he can get you to drop your "suspicion".
Welcome to my scum tier. Actually I didn't call sqrt scum, I was pointing out something that he's done which isn't helpful. I can have him correct that behavior and thus improve the town environment and maybe teach him something at the same time (which is after all the point of the game). On May 28 2014 16:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:K sqrt I'm starting to have a serious problem here. You go from this: On May 28 2014 10:19 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Here's what I think is going to happen, according to the sqrtofneg1 rule.
jwz is gonna be lynched, gonna flip vt.
Palmar is gonna end up scum.
I honestly don't think anyone will move their vote away from jwz. I don't expect anyone to, also.
But I kind of think he's town. To this: On May 28 2014 10:25 Chromatically wrote:
sqrt why are you not convincing people to vote for Palmar? On May 28 2014 10:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Cause I don't think it will happen.
And I also think there's a good chance that jwz is scum too. You can't "think he's town" and think he's scum too" at the same time. This is actually pretty scummy imo. Oh hey 27NB: On May 28 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 28 2014 10:59 Chromatically wrote:
this is quite possibly the finest scumhunting tl has seen in ages Hey im scumhunting.... So im thinking, Team for mafia: Jabber/Sqrt/mderg Or Jabber/palmer/mderg Something like that, Id lynch both jabber and mderg though I also am really digging this post here although I disagree with mderg and I'd insert someone else, who I'm not sure of yet. So Palmar, just so the record is straight, now I'm calling sqrt scum for clearly contradicting himself in an attempt to be vague and not get caught supporting the wrong person. On May 29 2014 17:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 29 2014 11:33 Chromatically wrote:On May 28 2014 19:44 Chromatically wrote:
MZ, what's your reasoning for Palmar being scum? MZ answer this please, regardless of whether you hold the read now. What was your reasoning at the time? My reason for wanting to lynch Palmar was stated here: On May 28 2014 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:57 Palmar wrote:
No you just implied that what he was doing looked like something mafia might do.
If you're town, I would have expected this
"If you leave it vague like this, you're never going to convince anyone of following your example or agreeing with your read."
Because that sentence isn't loaded with agenda, like yours was
"If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand."
I may be reading too much into this, but it's bad form. If you want to affect his playstyle, don't do it in the same breath as you threaten him with a scumread.. I really don't think I threatened him with a scum read at all. I said that something he was doing could be seen as scummy. I never said that I thought he was scum because of what he was doing. And I'm not a fan of your insinuations that I'm calling everyone mafia. I have thus far stated my support for a jwz lynch, discussed that I'm looking at Haru and Fuba as possibilities for scum because of their defense of jwz (they've both responded, I haven't really reevaluated them yet), and I've stated I would support a lynch on you. That was primarily because you were acting like you didn't give a shit which I've seen in the past to be scumpalmar. That's not randomly flinging around accusations as you suggest. At this point I'm not as convinced of Palmar's scumminess anymore because he's come in and been contributing a lot more than I would have expected out of scum Palmar. At the moment I don't have a burning scum read, I am probably most suspicious of sqrt because of the way he seems to drift with the general opinion of the thread like a willow in the wind. However I'm not sold that makes him scum yet, I wanna see him post for a little while longer before I make my mind up. ??? That's called a progression of a read slOosh. As you can see, at first I was not suspicious of sqrt and was simply pointing things out about his play for him to fix, then he posted more and I changed my mind because of new information. This is typically how one processes facts in a changing environment. I literally outline what's going on in the second post you quoted. What has sqrt done that you would consider him town? At this point I don't consider him town.
I am still thinking through Palmar's case (Haru & slOosh have a little more attention right now) but I do feel like this fits into what Palmar was saying regarding M_Z. I guess it's possible M_Z didn't want to push sqrt yet (since there was already a mislynch wagon on JWZ) and would be raising sqrt as suspicious afterward. I don't know but I'll dig a little more :3
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@M_Z:
Do you think Palmar/sqrt is a potential scumteam?
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On May 30 2014 03:05 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Okay guys, question time.
After jwz's lynch, what can you gather from his filter?
Not much, unfortunately. I think summary of JWZ is:
Scumreads: Palmar (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=19#377, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=19#369)
Townreads: Anyone who defended him (I guess maybe fuba/mderg?)
I also learned jabberwockzerg seems really nice ;_;7
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I was hoping to reread the thread today, but I only got about halfway and I don't have very much time today so I'm just going to dump what I think now (it doesn't look like I'll be around to post something at deadline again).
My town circle is bunnies, Amiko, Palmar. I think that's pretty self-explanatory for the most part.
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From purely looking at actions concerning the lynch, sqrt and mderg look pretty terrible. sqrt had his "top two scumreads" jabber and Palmar who he voted and then very quickly unvoted, before later attempting a fuba wagon that had no chance of getting off the ground. mderg defended the mislynch all day before starting an extremely late wagon on MZ.
However, I don't really think they're scum. sqrt, although his play is stereotypically "scummy", has a lot of posts that feel like town reactions and show a town thought process about the game. It does look like he's trying to figure out who's scum. I can fairly easily see his actions coming from a townie with a crazy yolo-oriented playstyle.
mderg just feels really genuine to me. I think it would be easy for scum to randomly throw out a scumread to push when I started pressuring him, but mderg didn't back down, which is a much townier position. Scum would be more aware of how strange it looks that they're not pushing a read and would invent one to push.
On May 28 2014 23:43 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 23:23 Chromatically wrote:
mderg, what would you say your objective is for today? What outcome would you be most happy with?? Well, my objective is to lynch scum but I don´t think that´s what you want to hear. It´s difficult to find a proper answer to that question because it´s not like I have someone I really want to lynch. I still don´t want jabber to be lynched. The outcome I would be most happy with would be lynching someone who is not jabber and scum. But since my defense for jabber didn´t seem to convince people I don´t think someone else will be lynched. I´d also be happy, if jabber flipped scum. That would make me wrong but it would put us in a good position.
Genuine doesn't necessarily mean town though (I'm very wary of calling mderg town for that one post Palmar liked, I think that could easily come from scum). But, I think his posts show a townie thought process about honestly wanting to defend jabber.
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One thing I thought was weird when I reread the early part of the day was how people rationalized their sheep onto jabber. I think that scum would not want to sheep on purely on the basis of the "slip", because scum would know that the slip had to come from town and was not actually scummy. So, scum would want to add additional justification.
On May 28 2014 02:26 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 02:20 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 28 2014 02:09 slOosh wrote:
Seems straightforward.
##Vote: jabberwockzerg Hi there slOosh. You are okay with this lynch. Why? And do you have anything else to comment? Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 11:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Counter point: he could have been super into last game because he was mafia, and isn't as into being vanilla town. Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 11:21 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Definitely leaving towards scum though Calls Chrom scum, but also maybe town, for no reason. Very wishy washy, but interested in something of this Chrom lynch. I think combined with other different aspects brought up thus far, this is a very solid D1 lynch.
Sloosh doesn't actually speak out against the slip at all, as someone would do if they actually disagreed with it. He just adds this additional (pretty weak) justification on top of it. This doesn't feel like his original vote post, which appears like he's voting purely for reasons already stated:
On May 28 2014 02:09 slOosh wrote:
Seems straightforward.
##Vote: jabberwockzerg
Scum sloosh would feel awkward about pushing jabber based on his not-actually-scummy slip. So when he is asked for justification for his vote, he feels the need to add something else that isn't actually that strong. He doesn't want to look like he's just sheeping AND he doesn't want to sheep on the slip that he knows is false.
His filter doesn't look like he's trying to solve the game at all. He's got some softball questions to people, but doesn't push or pressure anyone. He almost never gives his actual thoughts on anything.
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MZ doesn't look like he's trying to figure out the game either.
On May 28 2014 16:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:K sqrt I'm starting to have a serious problem here. You go from this: Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 10:19 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Here's what I think is going to happen, according to the sqrtofneg1 rule.
jwz is gonna be lynched, gonna flip vt.
Palmar is gonna end up scum.
I honestly don't think anyone will move their vote away from jwz. I don't expect anyone to, also.
But I kind of think he's town. To this: Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 10:25 Chromatically wrote:
sqrt why are you not convincing people to vote for Palmar? Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 10:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Cause I don't think it will happen.
And I also think there's a good chance that jwz is scum too. You can't "think he's town" and think he's scum too" at the same time. This is actually pretty scummy imo.
I don't like how here he says "that's scummy" and doesn't pressure sqrt. I would expect a townie to try to figure out sqrt's alignment and question him about why he feels that way. Scum just want to post a read and get out.
And I agree with what Palmar has said.
I'm unfortunately out of time so I can't get to the rest of the people but that's what I really wanted to hit on. Top two scum are Sloosh and MZ.
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@gobbledygook:
(1) Fuba raised some points on you D1. Do you think his case is more likely to come from scum or mafia?
(2) One argument you raised re: Fuba was that he joined the JWZ vote without stating reasons. Do you think that criticism is true for any other players?
(3) If you have any thoughts on slOosh/M_Z I'd like to hear them.
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What I've learned from jwz's filter:
Nothing.
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Hey guys!! So I just got off of work, and have two games to catch up on, so bear with me!
Also i'm updating from my phone cause I'm at gymnastics practice for my little sister! I'll read everything, and hopefully give yall a few thoughts before end of night (which btw: how long until then?)
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EPT
