EPTI do think JabberZerg voted Meat purely out of spite because of Meat's posting style. So, maybe not better than the reasoning that "everybody" voted for, but mostly everybody.
Newbie Mini Mafia LVI - Page 3
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Epishade
United States2267 Posts
I do think JabberZerg voted Meat purely out of spite because of Meat's posting style. So, maybe not better than the reasoning that "everybody" voted for, but mostly everybody. | ||
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Epishade
United States2267 Posts
On June 24 2014 04:24 GlowingBear wrote: Wait, I'm newbie. I thought that when a cop puts someone into jail, Mafia can't kill. Did I get it right? I mean, if Haru goes to jail, any attempt of killing him would fail. Is that right? If Haru goes to jail, then she's protected from any night-kills, but can not perform any night actions of her own. Cops don't put people in jail. Cops check someone during the night and find out their alignment. | ||
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Epishade
United States2267 Posts
On June 24 2014 04:29 The_Templar wrote: When I post in the wrong thread, I really post in the wrong thread. Seriously ignore that I don't think I will. That post wreaks of scum. | ||
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Epishade
United States2267 Posts
On June 24 2014 04:36 The_Templar wrote: How so? I take stuff too seriously and that post is completely off topic and silly. When you post like that so carelessly such that it interferes with the game, it shows that you aren't putting as much effort into the game as you are paying attention to other various forum posts. + Show Spoiler + I'm joking, Templar. | ||
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Epishade
United States2267 Posts
On June 24 2014 04:46 The_Templar wrote: It sure didn't sound like a joke at the time... Lol. | ||
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Epishade
United States2267 Posts
The only way I can see Token's shot being justified is if mafia thought he was on the right track and shot him to get rid of him, because objectively, that looked like a bad shot to me. You usually shoot people that have little chance of getting lynched for reading townie, but there seemed to be enough suspicion on Token (or at least, more than the three people I listed above) for me to think that that wasn't the reason he was shot. There are a few people that Token scumreads over day 1, and I think that probably played a part in his death. His scumreads: JabberZerg (initially, then changed his mind to a townread at 4:00, which wouldn't have given mafia time to change their shot if JabberZerg wanted to keep Token alive for townreading him, assuming that Jabber is mafia) meatpudding Teemursu Cats His townreads: Haruhi Templar me Hobbit (only in his post at 4:00) Fence reads: Nydus Dunno reads: GlowBear Other peoples So I think the cases should probably be focused on people in his scum list at this point. I mean, he did say for people to look at me, GlowBear, and Nydus day 2 in his 4:02 post, but I'm not considering these specifically right now because they came too late to be able to influence mafia, and I'm only looking at the reasoning for shooting Token here over someone else. He also asked me to post my reads on him, Cats, and meatpudding at this point, too, but I woke up too early today and am dead tired. I'll post my reads on everybody I have reads for sometime tomorrow after I wake up. Night all. | ||
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Epishade
United States2267 Posts
People are saying that my post is a little scummy for leaving out other scenarios. I did make it before Templar said he was jailed, and also before Haruhi said she was roleblocked. I honestly just didn't even consider that mafia would miss a shot and instead the shot might be from vigi. I also didn't really expect mafia to shoot someone at random, as I don't really think they would shoot someone without putting any thought into it just to screw with us. I did consider (but didn't include) mafia using wifom in their shot decision in my post, such that we'd think they shot Token for being on the right track, when instead they shot Token because he was on the wrong track and they wanted us to think he was right. But I really didn't think that was the case either. I don't really see that happening in a newbie game, where they might expect that some people might not have even theorized that Token was shot because he was on the right track. You guys realize too, that if mafia did, in fact, miss their target and vigi shot Token, that either Templar or Haruhi would be scum then, right? | ||
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Epishade
United States2267 Posts
On June 25 2014 03:35 The_Templar wrote: It's also possible, in this scenario, that medic (if there is one) healed the mafia target, or they targeted me and jail protected me. There is no medic in this game. Actually, I didn't think of that. It does go both ways. I was thinking that if you were jailed and handed the gun, that you wouldn't have been able to shoot somebody while vigi shot Token. You're right. That would also take Haruhi off the table then too, since mafia still could have wasted the shot on you and Haruhi just gets side-roleblocked. | ||
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Epishade
United States2267 Posts
On June 25 2014 03:42 HaruRH wrote: Explain. I don't see in any way, how would me or Templar be scum? If scum misshot, it would obviously be on Templar. So scum roleblocked me, another scum? ??? I was thinking that if either of you two were handed the gun, neither of you would have been able to shoot, due to your being roleblocked and Templar's being jailed. That would lead to the only death being by Vigi. However, I forgot to take into account Templar's possible being targeted while in jail, which would protect him and waste a shot. My mistake. | ||
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Epishade
United States2267 Posts
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Epishade
United States2267 Posts
JabberZerg - Slight town lean + Show Spoiler + JabberZerg is one of the people in this game that I think is playing so bad he couldn't be scum (Jk, not AS bad as Meat anyways). I realize that MysteryMeat was also playing pretty bad, but he was also not helping his case with his aggressiveness and misuse of logic. JabberZerg at least can explain his actions. Jabber puts meatpudding in his townlean at the start of the game here. On June 22 2014 16:20 jabberwockzerg wrote: yeah, pudding's a townlean I'd be most comfortable with a tolkien vote, but I want him to read my post about scott and react to it, defend his wagon. I'll agree with a fence on KittyCats, he's asking questions, but I'm noticing a lack of content. However, he votes for meatpudding later here with the excuse that he wanted to vote someone so he wouldn't be modkilled if something happened. I have to question his choice of voting for meatpudding over someone else. On June 23 2014 04:01 jabberwockzerg wrote: Hey guys, I'm out for most of the day, but I'll try to keep up on my phone, and I'll be home for the last three hours or so to read through all the filters and make my final vote. I just want to make a quick vote now in case something happens I won't get modkilled. ##Vote: meatpudding When he comes back, he explains his reasoning behind the vote being that meatpudding was a wagon. On June 23 2014 09:37 jabberwockzerg wrote: okay first thing's first: ##: Unvote I voted pudding because, honestly, he was the first person with a wagon that I could remember. I was trying to save my stupid ass from a modkill. I understand that it looks scummy. I'll get on reading through filters and give my thoughts on the meat situation ASAP This seems like a really bad reason to vote for someone without having his own reasons for doing so. He understands it looks scummy, as he says. Honestly, I don't think a mafia would make a mistake like this, to vote for someone just because they were a wagon. That seems like way too dumb a move that mafia would make. In the end, he votes for Meat because of spite imo. On June 23 2014 11:58 jabberwockzerg wrote: You might not like how I'm gonna deal with it ##Vote: MysteryMeat1 Honestly, I don't blame him for that. Meat was posting like crap at the end. He wouldn't answer some of JabberZerg's qustions either. The way he voted for Meat isn't as methodical like those that listed reasons for voting for Meat. I'd think a mafia is always going to try to be methodical and use pseudo-logic to cover themselves, instead of voting based on emotion. I had a scumread on JabberZerg before I looked through his filter. Now I think he looks a bit town to me. Haruhi - Town + Show Spoiler + Haruhi's posted a lot, and with the recent roleblock, I have to say I'd view her as town. She is conversing a ton, but is not afraid to throw votes on people she thinks is scummy so far. The first comes with her vote on Token. On June 22 2014 11:14 HaruRH wrote: Lord tolkien, this is the wrong way to approach forum mafia. In forum mafia, you lynch for scum ONLY, not for information/clearing lurkers/usefulness to town. We usually clear lurkers with cops and people useful to town will die quick to mafia anyway. I have a feeling you knew this. Coupled with how you wanted to go with meatpudding but went with scott just for a wagon, you're playing really scummy. ##Vote: lord tolkien I read her as townie for doing this before, so I'll just post my previous reasoning again. On June 22 2014 11:14 HaruRH wrote: Lord tolkien, this is the wrong way to approach forum mafia. In forum mafia, you lynch for scum ONLY, not for information/clearing lurkers/usefulness to town. We usually clear lurkers with cops and people useful to town will die quick to mafia anyway. I have a feeling you knew this. Coupled with how you wanted to go with meatpudding but went with scott just for a wagon, you're playing really scummy. ##Vote: lord tolkien I wrote this in response At this point in the game, I'm going to have to disagree with Haruhi. How could we possibly know who scum is on day one? I have a feeling that Teemursu is possible scum, but I'm not going to vote for Teemursu just yet because he's talking a lot and being active. If he turned out to be actual town that'd be even worse had we voted him off because he was an active contributor. If we get rid of all the active townies, then mafia has a significantly better shot at winning. Token's voting for Scott as someone who hasn't contributed much, which seems justified enough to me. In my first game I voted off a non-contributing townie, and I'd probably do it again, as he didn't defend himself well enough to sway votes off of him. I personally, though, think that your pushing on Token was too hard, even voting for him so quickly, for it to be scummy though. I'd think a scum wouldn't want to put themselves out like that so easily. So, though I disagree with you for now, that doesn't mean I think you're scum. I'd say you were town for making a move that I found questionable, but only because I think a scum would be better than to make a move so rash. It's all pretty much impossible to tell anyways though. Again, I tend not to put a lot of thought into day 1 posts. I did on my first mafia game and everything I had gathered at that point turned out to be wrong. I don't want that to happen again here. Well, I spent an hour and a half writing this out. It's almost 2 now, so I should probably get some sleep. Usually I can stay up a lot later guys, but I'm not at my house right now, so it's not an option right now. Tomorrow I should be able to post more if I see anything I want to add, but I'm getting off for tonight after I post this and refresh. KK. Her read on meatpudding makes a lot of sense, too. On June 22 2014 21:39 HaruRH wrote: In fact, meatpudding's vote on me is very questionable. 1) Contradicts himself Let's take a look at his reason to vote for me. + Show Spoiler + On June 22 2014 20:58 meatpudding wrote: Not very sure how to vote. I could read players that are defensive as scum. ##Vote: HaruRH Haru is not really pushing town agenda. Asking vague questions, not pushing anyone in particular. Calling out when Hobbitus contradicts herself, does not seem like a good read to me. I'm still leaning towards Teemu as scum. Teemu and Templar have played before, maybe that is why they are acting familiar, but it seems like Teemu's reads are off. Cats is asking lots of questions, I am leaning town here. On Templar, I think only his one long post gives much info. I think he plays town, but could be trying to give false info. Tolkien seems noncommittal, then starts a bandwagon. Not sure here. Hobbitus not posting much but looks like town trying to get some early reads. That's all I have for now. TL'DR Asking vaque questions, not pushing anyone. By looking at what he has posted, all his questions were very vague and he never follows up on the questions. Also, he is pushing even less than me (He only stated he find teemu/Templar suspicious). If he is scum, he is currently finding suspicion on as many people as possible so that it will look less suspicious of him to jump wagons when the situation arises. 2) Does not stick to his reads He initially read Templar and teemu as potential scum. Then, he votes me based on a 2 liner 'push' that can be applied to half the players here. This is similar to the point where I mention that he could be trying to jump wagons later on without getting suspected of doing so - he can freely jump between voting me, Templar and teemu. This is very indicative of scum since he as explained by himself. This is more than enough for a d1 vote for me. ##Unvote ##Vote: Meatpudding meatpudding doesn't make a whole lot of sense, so Haruhi calls him out on it. I happen to agree, too, and offer my own post about meatpudding where I vote for him. Haruhi's scum stance on meatpudding also attributes to her townieness I feel. Cats - Town lean + Show Spoiler + I really didn't pay much attention to Cats until he pointed out that Meat voted for him while ignoring Token. Honestly, I think I've been tunneling Cats as probable town whole game for little reason other than him being picked out unfairly by Meat and Nydus (whom I didn't agree with his vote). I saw nothing scummy about Cats when he was voted for. His vote for Meat was the most justified however out of all of us. On June 23 2014 07:47 TheKingOfTheCats wrote: Ok, i'm voting MysteryMeat. I really don't like that he said i was super scummy for bringing up the idea of lynching an inactive while completely ignoring the fact that Tolkien did the same thing and voting me for it seeing as thread sentement wasn't exactly in my favour at the time. Him thinking i'm "super scummy" is completely disproportionate to the rest of the thread's view which is null to slightly scummy at best so i'm having a hard time thinking his implied certainty that i'm scum is genuine plus as i said at the time i looked like a likely lynch candidate and two people had voted for me shortly before his post. His double standard regarding my and Tolkien's scumminess combined with his overconfidence that i'm scum posted just when a wagon was forming on me looks like an excuse made up to jump on an easy bandwagon from my pov. Also him posting that a non alignment indicative thing is scummy is itself scummy, he's twisting things to suit his own purposes: Fun fact: I confused Templar with Epishade and he confused Templar with Tolkien but amazingly the point still stands because this is only Tolkien's 3rd game. ##Vote: MysteryMeat1 Predit: I'm not entirely sure i like the way this post is worded, feel free to give me shit for it.  This post, in conversation with Templar, is what makes me think he leans town. On June 23 2014 08:06 TheKingOfTheCats wrote: If that was supposed to be a defence of MM it's not a very good one. Him possibly not planning on doing much for the rest of the day is hardly alignment indicative and if anything coming up with a weak reason to join a wagon and fucking off till flip is actually scummy. I think here, Cats slightly suspects Templar of potentially defending MM for his vote, thinking they are both potential mafia. If he were mafia, he wouldn't care to throw this suspicion at Templar (as slight as it might have been) because he knows that MM would flip town, and everything he suspected Templar of wouldn't matter after that. He didn't know at this point, and so he expressed doubt that Templar was actually town through his defense of Meat. He also analyzes my post about Token's death as well. On June 24 2014 21:49 TheKingOfTheCats wrote: First of all you're assuming that scum shot Tolkien, it's possible that scum got jailed/roleblocked and the vig shot Tolkien. Tolkien being shot because be suspected the right people makes little sense but lets analyze it a bit. If me or meatpudding are scum it would be pointless to shoot him for suspecting us because half the game does, if either of us were to shoot him it wouldn't change anything for us and it would actually be detrimental for us to do that as scum because Tolkien was looking scummy to a lot of people too and he would've been one of the easier people to push for a mislynch. seeing as him, me and meatpudding were the main lynch candidates today we wouldn't kill one of our most valid chances to escape a lynch. Teemu, well this one's simple. If he was going to shoot someone for being "on" to him it would've been meatpudding because meatpudding's been on him more. Why would he shoot Tolkien over meatpudding? Why would he shoot either of them for that matter? They were both suspicious to a lot of people and he wasn't. As for Jabber...i dunno. He seems to be on a few peoples radars if i remember correctly, it would make more sense to shoot one of them for being "on" to him as opposed to one of the lynch candidates. It really doesn't make sense for scum to shoot him especially for the reason you posted. Personally i think the less likely situation of scum's NK being blocked and a Vig targeting Tolkien is more likely. He's thinking like a townie here, thinking through all the people he might think would have reason to shoot Token, and explaining why or why not they might have done it. He also suggests that vigi killed Token and mafia's shot was blocked, which, though I think is a little unlikely still, is not outside chance, considering Templar was jailed (which I didn't know at the time). Nydus - Scum lean + Show Spoiler + I started off Nydus with a townlead originally for asking Templar to ignore any of Teemursu's video mafia experience in making reads on him, here. (Sorry for formatting). I'd like you to imagine that Teemu had absolutely no experience in video mafia prior to this forum game. I say this because I feel like you're holding back on reading him because of two possible reasons. One, you're used to active day 1 scum hunting as being a mafia tell but I'm telling you that it's not. Two, you're scum trying to give multiple null reads in order to keep your options open in the future. I changed my stance on him though when he voted for Cats. On June 22 2014 16:05 NydusHerMain wrote: I absolutely agree with this. He seems completely inexperienced rather than scummy. #Vote: TheKingOfCats I still think that TheKingOfCats is the most scummy, followed by MeatPudding. I will update my vote accordingly but that is how I stand at the moment. He votes for Cats with his reasoning here: On June 22 2014 02:21 NydusHerMain wrote: My read on TheKingOfCats so far is that he is potential scum with MeatPudding. I find it weird that TheKingOfCats' first reaction is to question Teemu on a supposed "null read" when I feel like MeatPudding saying that TheKingOfCats is trying to lynch him (pretty much saying that TheKingOfCats has a scum read on him) is a much scummier thing. Ok, so he thinks meatpudding and Cats are a scumteam right now, and Cats is townreading meatpudding for that reason. However, he seems to contradict himself, as he said before that he doesn't think scum aligns themselves so early in the game. On June 22 2014 01:39 NydusHerMain wrote: As someone who plays with you a lot in video mafia, I feel like this is not a typical read of yours. Seems a bit forced, and I hope that it's a reaction test. If it is, I'd like you to explain what you got from it. I don't think scum align themselves so quickly. The read seems a bit weak but I don't necessarily think it comes from scum. Your read on TheKingOfCats seems to come from a towny perspective. Not sure what to think of you yet but leaning town. So he says he doesn't think scum aligns themselves so quickly, but is ready to vote for Cats based on your thought that, since he said he didn't think meatpudding's post was particularly alignment indicative. Wouldn't that imply that Cats and meatpudding had aligned themselves together? Anyways, I thought Nydus' vote kind of contradicted that, and I didn't think Cats was scummy at the time, so I questioned his vote. Afterwards, he changes his vote to MysteryMeat here, and townreads Haruhi, Token, and JabberZerg. On June 23 2014 12:23 NydusHerMain wrote: I just woke up so I should have a clearer mind for this. ##: Unvote LordTolkien: Town + Show Spoiler + LordTolkien starts off the game saying that people trying to solve the game are town, and that lurkers are mafia. I thought that this was scummy because of how he was defending Teemu just for being someone being active. He didn't just say that Teemu was off the table, he said that Teemu was town. However, as I read through his filter, it is clear that his reads keep updating. I feel like it is more indicative of scum to tunnel on certain people with weak reasons, whereas LordTolkien looks like he's constantly getting new town and scum reads. JabberWockZerg: Town + Show Spoiler + Feels like it's coming from a town perspective. I know it's a weird thing to town read someone off of but it looks like he's annoyed with this post in a "Wow, thanks for the input, I also read the rules" kind of way. As opposed to most people, his reads aren't as polarized and it gives the feel of him trying to find out why people find certain people scummy that he has a town or fence read on. HaruRH: Town + Show Spoiler + Sigh... I was reading through his attack on The_Templar based on how The_Templar supposedly knew there was more than one mafia... it was pregame filter. Hard to clear my mind from that but I'll try. As of this moment, his play feels very consistent. Can't really see any glaring inconsistencies. The fact that he compiled reads that people made alone makes me want to say that he's town just for effort but we all know that effort is not alignment indicative. I didn't like how he had a lot of fluff when people were already in scum hunting mode. Actually, to be honest, he's asking great questions. I was going to say leaning town just because of the fluff but I feel like his contributions outweigh that. I wanted to give more detailed reads on everyone but I feel like I don't have enough time with how much time is left in the day to actually finish my reads so I'm going to be way more concise from now on. I don't think that TheKingOfCats is as scummy as I originally thought he was. I feel like MysteryMeat1 just sheeped my read on him and is actually scummier than I thought. I was pretty tired when I made those reads initially. I rescind my town read on Teemu, I pretty much townread him because our reads seemed to align but after reading through the thread again, I feel like our reads are starting to differ. I'm not saying that it means Teemu is scum, but I'm just not feeling him as town as I did prior. The_Templar I'm getting towny vibes from, otherwise, I don't really have standout reads. Everyone else is more leaning null aside from MeatPudding who I also think is scummy. ##Vote: MysteryMeat1 Though, he does rescind his read on Teemursu and Cats, it's a while after everyone kind of already knew Cats wasn't going to be lynched and Teemursu was being read as scummy anyways. I don't think it would make much sense for a scum to keep those opposing views, but a townie could just as well do the same, so I can't hold that against Nydus here. He does end up voting Meat without an explanation. Could just be he didn't think he had time to read through and come up with a reason? Idk, that's not alignment indicative either though. He was scumreading meatpudding too, so he could have voted for meatpudding just as well here. It didn't really matter which Meat he picked here. He ends up townreading Haruhi, Token, and JabberZerg, too. JabberZerg he townreads based on a joke that Jabber made though, so I'm not sure if he'd still want to keep that read, as he didn't realize Jabber was referring to a song in the post that he townreads him. I started out this read thinking that Nydus was scum, but now I'm not entirely sure. He's a scumlean at best, but he conflicts with a lot of other people I thought were scum too, such as Teemursu and meatpudding. GlowBear - Slight town + Show Spoiler + GlowBear's a little harder of a read for me. I kind of think he is town for questioning Haruhi's alignment, since she is a large part of the thread and he's worried she may be leading us astray, especially when nobody views Haruhi as scum currently (I don't think). On June 24 2014 02:15 GlowingBear wrote: I think Haru is dangerous because he leads our reads. He ask questions to be answered and, therefore, changes the route of our reasoning. If he is scum, he has got us on his hands. But I never saw any scum sign in his posts. I think he ask good questions that may help town. So, I think he is townie. I also like that he's clearly giving his reads on everybody in the game, as this makes it harder for him to backtrack on somebody that he thinks might be scum. He doesn't go too in-depth in his reads, but the fact that he's doing it at all seems kind of townie to me. On June 23 2014 08:06 GlowingBear wrote: Ok, following this order, here are my reads of these reads: On Nydus's: + Show Spoiler + He's got the same reads i've got on meatpudding and TheKingOfCats (I've said earlier that I wasn't really sure about meatpudding but after analyzing his reads I've started to believe he is leaning scum, I'll tell why on his time), although I don't think he's got good grounds on it. I don't think that questioning Teemu instead of TheKingOfCats is ground for possible scummy. That said, I don't actually see solid argumentation here, but nothing suspicious. Null-read on Nydus. On MysteryMeat's: + Show Spoiler + *On his reads on The_Templar, I don't see direct relation between having scum filters and that being scummy. You may clarify this assumption so I could understand it better, but it means nothing to me right now. *On his reads on scott, I'm with him. I'd just say that, as someone said, Scott is kinda lost in the game. ALTHOUGH voting on himself looked very suspicious. Sounded like he was trying to get away from being lynched by looking as a victim. *On his reads on Cats, I' with him again. Most of TheKingOfCats posts sounds scummy to me. *On his reads on Hobbitus, I don't see a problem on saying that it's her first game. I have a townie-read on Hobbitus, but I need to read more of her posts to get a stronger read. *On his reads on Teemu, I disagree. As someone said, forcing a "pinging out" before analyzing meatpudding's reaction was suspicious, as to push voting to someone he knows it's not his partner in case he is a scum. Some other of his posts have a scummy vibe, although sometimes I see him leaning townie. I have no reads on Teemu by now. *On his reads on meatpudding, I disagree. He sounded scum in the beginning of the game and in other times later. I have a specific argument which I'll reveal while analyzing meatpudding reads. *On his reads on Nydus, I'm not really sure. I think Nydus is leaning townie, but that's a weak read I have. That said, there is little I can tell about MysteryMeat. Null-read. I will do a less detailed read on reads from now on, or the post will get too big. On Templar's: + Show Spoiler + His reads are kinda confusing for me, actually. He suspects Nydus but doesn't suspect Cats nor meatpudding? Then, after, assumes that his best guess for scum is Cats? It's confusing and I don't agree with it but I have to admit his grounds on Nydus are ok. Null-read on Templar's for now, I think if he could clarify his assumptions I'd have a better read on him On Tolkien's (and about Lurking) + Show Spoiler + I think he has no grounds on Scott and his "lynch all lurkers" policy worries me. As one of the guides said, it's a common blue strategy to lurk. But that's not the main point. The main point is: if you are Mafia and you have Mafia partners lurking, would you risk forcing this "lynch all lurkers" policy? I don't think so. Now, if you are Mafia and all your partners are on the game, what would you do? Force the policy so you could lynch a blue, as lurking is a common blue strategy. Moreover, if you are convincend I am town, this means that lurkers definetely weren't all Mafia, which would mean that Mafia strategy of lynching lurkers is a huge possibility. Again, saying "As for the possibility of hitting a lurking blue role or whatever, it is a risk" worries me the most. Would you take the risk to take a cop out of the game instead of trying to identify active scum? Because of these, I have a strong scumread on Tolkien He is still forcing this policy by now. On Haru's: + Show Spoiler + He's got the same opinion as I. Moreover, I said before I have a strong feeling Haru is townie. Therefore, thats how I read him. On Epishade's: + Show Spoiler + Alright, not sure what to think about Teemu and Templar, as I said before. Therefore, I cannot totally disagree with the arguments Epishade brought. Really hard to analyze. But at least he brought plausible arguments. I have a leaning town read on Epishade because I think he is trying to contribute and brings good grounds with his reads, although I might not agree with them.. On Teemu's: + Show Spoiler + Again, not sure what to think about Teemu and his reads are ok but I can't see his grounds in this post. Not a reliable read I must say. On Scott's: + Show Spoiler + I've not got much to say, it's pratically the point of view I'm having of the game right now. Makes me wonder if I'm misunderstaning his self-vote. I'd null-read him for now. On meatpudding's: + Show Spoiler + "Not very sure how to vote. I could read players that are defensive as scum. ##Vote: HaruRH Haru is not really pushing town agenda. Asking vague questions, not pushing anyone in particular. Calling out when Hobbitus contradicts herself, does not seem like a good read to me. I'm still leaning towards Teemu as scum. Teemu and Templar have played before, maybe that is why they are acting familiar, but it seems like Teemu's reads are off. Cats is asking lots of questions, I am leaning town here. On Templar, I think only his one long post gives much info. I think he plays town, but could be trying to give false info. Tolkien seems noncommittal, then starts a bandwagon. Not sure here. Hobbitus not posting much but looks like town trying to get some early reads. That's all I have for now." There is a huge contradiction here. Meatpudding is declaring Haru guilty for the same reason he decides Cats is not-guilty. He says that Haru is asking vague questions, but if Cats isn't, I don't know how a precise question should be. This seems really suspicious and, as I think Cats is probably scum, meatpudding may trying to cover up a partner. I have a strong scumread here. On Haru's (again) + Show Spoiler + Haru has got the same opinion as I, that meatpudding is contradicting(?) himself, and I've concluded this opinion before even reading Haru's scumread. I'm with him. On Templar's (again): + Show Spoiler + Once again, I cannot read Templar. But this time he brought good grounds on most of his assumptions, although I might not agree with them. Phew, that took long! Having said all of these, although I still have a feeling that TheKingOfCats might be scum, I'll vore for meatpudding as I've got now a stronger read on him. So... ##Vote: meatpudding Glowbear also calls into question my post about Token's death, which is good, though I disagree with him on which of his scenarios is more likely. On June 24 2014 23:24 GlowingBear wrote: Your post strike me as odd. It's because the scenario you've brought isn't the only one possible. Possible scenarios are: 1) Tolkien was on the right track and asking the right questions, so it was better for Mafia to make him shut up. This is too simplistic, it would easily lead townies to lynch the right people. I don't think Mafia would do this. 2) Tolkien wasn't on the right track but being shot would lead town to misread other townies. This one seems more plausible to me. 3) My stupid mistake made them change their top townies change targets to someone who had more scumreads 4) Top townies are actually very good scums and they killed at random (I think this is too much) As I think (2) is more plausible, your post striked me as odd because you seem to push (1) as the only possible interpretation, leading townies to misreads and, therefore, to mislynchs. I'll keep an eye on you. meatpudding - Scum lean + Show Spoiler + meatpudding has, like MysteryMeat, not exactly used the best logic in his posts. A lot of people have called him out on it and I don't really feel like thoroughly going through his filter to restate what has already been said. I'll just say that my current read on him is probably tied for scummy with Teemursu atm, with Nydus first. Hobbit - Dunno. Kinda town. + Show Spoiler + I put Hobbit in a similar area of townieness to GlowBear. He lists his reads, like GlowBear did too. On June 23 2014 03:57 Hobbitus wrote: Might as well do this systematically: 1. Lord Tolkien-On the fence I like that he's consistent on voting for people that are not the best contributors. How much I agree with this logic is less cut and dry. For D1, I think it's acceptable, I think there will be a lot more to go on after someone flips. He's not saying too much else though. 2. Jabberwockzerg-Leaning scum Not really contributing much, giving alignment reads but no real arguments of substance to go with them. Pushing Tolkien for I have no idea what reason. Also talking up cats, who has been meh this whole game for me. 3. HaruRH-On the fence I think his read on Tolkien was too aggressive, but he later retracts this. I don't like his read on meatpudding either, but consistently disagreeing with someone doesn't mean their alignment isn't the same as yours. 4. Thekingofthecats-On the fence I just haven't been blown away by his contribution, especially when prefaced by his post about how he likes to help town by contributing. He did try to warn us though. Also I find his timing to enter the game suspicious, as it was right after Teemu said he wasn't contributing and while scott/Templar were discussing the scumminess of lurkers. 5. NydusHerMain-Leaning town Makes good points, I like that he was willing to challenge Teemu. 6. Solar424 (crickets chirp) 7. GlowingBear (crickets chirp) 8. Meatpudding-leaning town I agree with most of his reads. The only thing I dislike is how quick he is to see himself as the victim when Teemu is involved. 9. Hobbitus-town obviously 10. Teemursu-leaning scum I was getting scum vibes a lot in the first few posts, but less so now. My first instinct makes me suspicious, but what he said about scott being able to replace rather than waste a lynch has been partial redemption. Also he is contributing a lot, which makes me agree with everyone else about him being a bad D1 lynch. 11. Epishade-leaning town Like the logic, want more posts. 12. Scott31337-on the fence Fighting to figure out if he's making mistakes from inexperience or scumminess. I really dislike his dialogue with Templar about total lurkers getting modkilled. 13. The_Templar-town A really strong town vibe, every post. Still going to keep my eye out, but my most certain read rn. 14: MysteryMeat1-on the fence His post just seems careless. Need more info. 15: BlondeMocha (crickets chirp) A lot of what he says is also things that I can see the logic in and agree with. At this point in the game, Haruhi had just voted for Token, which I thought was questionable but gave me a townread on her. Hobbit reads Haruhi as a little scummy for it, which I can also see the reasoning for. He's also suspicious of Teemursu, as am I. Here, too, he reinforces my townie read on him. On June 23 2014 09:53 Hobbitus wrote: But I'm still stuck in the same position then: is he scum or bad town? Tolkien, you'll vote him either way, why should I?  I'd imagine a scum would likely just not even bother asking something like this, and instead just figure out their own reasoning to vote for MysteryMeat. No reason to ask this if you're scum. Teemursu - Slight scum lean + Show Spoiler + My opinion on Teemursu is less scummy than before, but still a little bit. So I'll post the reasoning that I used before in thinking him as scum. On June 22 2014 14:42 Epishade wrote: As for Teemursu, he's got a few posts that make me a little suspicious. Someone making a joke that Teemursu thought felt forced sounded scummy to him doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I realize that generally, people like others to post more than lurk, but pudding admitting that he probably won't post that much doesn't sound all that scummy to me. He's never played before on TL (afaik), so we have no way of knowing his true posting style. He could just be upfront about the way he thinks he's going to post, but that doesn't ring scummy to me. Doesn't read town for me either, he just wants people to know his posting style so we don't lynch him for lurking, instead of actual content he produces. Does anybody else think that this doesn't sound like something that a townie might say? "It's going to be an interesting challenge to try to read you." Maybe I'm being pedantic here, but that sounds like something a mafia would say in an attempt to sound like town. I couldn't see a town saying that, but maybe I'm overthinking it, idk. However, On June 23 2014 20:33 Teemursu wrote: I want you to stop flip-flopping on MeatPudding. This isn't updating your own reads, as Nydus said. It sounds more like being unsettled to call your scum partner one way or the other. You say he's fine, and you coach him on how to play better as town. But just in case he's scum, you tell him to die. I'm saying you're not fine, and that you need to dig yourself out from the hole you've jumped in to by making this case on MM1 on weak basis. By making the case based on him having discrepancy in analysis and not making much sense, while these are the exact same things MeatPudding should be accused of, and you still think he is "fine". You most certainly are scum, and you need to die. This is another thing I don't see a scum saying to Token. Though I disagree with how nitpicky he is being to Token here, I think the content of what he posts here leans town a bit. He's being fairly accusatory to Token, almost as if he expected Token to be a primary lynch candidate Day 2. But since Token died in the night, Teemursu wouldn't have had to worry about doing this. If Teemursu were mafia, there's no reason he'd have to put pressure on Token right now when MysteryMeat had turned up town, since he shot him later that night. It doesn't really seem like a mafia thing to do, to me. So...a little conflicted about Teemursu now. I still think he might be mafia, just not as much as before. Templar - Town + Show Spoiler + He got jailed. He's been posting a ton. He's been pretty logical in all of his posts. He tried to help Meat out when he was being pressured. And he likes my blogs. All townie behavior if you ask me. Honestly, unless a vigi claims and says that he didn't shoot Token, I think you're town. I know I have some people listed as scum, that, if they happened to be scum, would eliminate some of my others as scum. The 2 people I want to pay most attention to right now are Nydus and Teemursu actually, maybe meatpudding too. These two conflict with each other though, and both conflict with meatpudding, but I think one of the two is scum. Goddamn, that took way too long to write. | ||
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On June 25 2014 07:22 Teemursu wrote: Hey, guy Epi. What do you think of my reads on KotC? I talked a bunch about him during the night. I feel insulted that I'm tied for scummy with MeatPudding.  Could you talk to me about this post a little bit? Where is your thought process of flip-flopping on MeatPudding being a "misguided townie" and "scum"? I don't need you to refer to anything specific. Just post your thought process. People, including me, have read the last part of the post as pretty scummy. Anything you want to address there? I wasn't referring to meatPudding being a misguided townie in that post. The m in meatPudding is lowercase, so any time I referred to "Meat", I was talking about MysteryMeat. I always referred to meatPudding by his full name. As for MysteryMeat being a misguided townie, I thought he might be because he uses logic that I can't agree with, but to him, seems logical. In this case, it was him saying that people posting their filters of past games was a scumtell, and then giving his reasoning for why he thought that. Thus, misguided townie. Tbh, I still kind of thought Meat was misguided when I voted him, but I wasn't willing to take the chance because of how his recent posts were so bad. He wouldn't explain anything and he was hostile to people that were trying to help. If Meat had flipped scum, I'd have been kicking myself if I hadn't voted for him, considering how bad he was posting. So really, I still thought a small part of Meat might have been town, but I didn't want to take the chance that he wasn't after he was throwing up so many red flags. | ||
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You ask me about your reads on Cats. Ummm...where did you make your read about Cats? Can you link me to a post? And also, what did you mean by this: On June 25 2014 06:26 Teemursu wrote: Great. More posts that I don't want to read. | ||
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On June 25 2014 08:44 Teemursu wrote: I'll link some to you after this video mafia game. I explained myself after that post (about walls of posts, etc). What do you need to know? Oh, I didn't catch it. This must be it, then. On June 25 2014 06:47 Teemursu wrote: If you want to read it that way. I'd just rather prefer having discussions with people instead of having to reading a couple of walls of posts and spend too much effort in analyzing them. Just like in video mafia, y'know? EDIT: having to read* Honestly, I don't think that's a good mindset to have when playing forum mafia, where filter diving is very helpful for coming up with reads. | ||
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On June 25 2014 09:49 NydusHerMain wrote: Epishade MeatPudding Teemu Hobbitus JabberWockZerg HaruRH (yeah I'm that confused about HaruRH ._.) The_Templar TheKingOfCats If the person isn't listed, they haven't said enough for me to remember them in particular. If they aren't on the list, I'm going to say leaning scum but not comfortable voting on. I think my town list is too big  but I'll re-evaluate it later.With respect to the EOD, I'll stay up to make sure I make it. I'm also not comfortable voting on TheKingOfCats right now because I feel like he's becoming more and more towny. I was more convinced he was mafia on day 1. I'll start voting when I see something scummy as fuck. Honestly, I'm surprised you put me at the top of your list. Even I wouldn't put myself there lol. I read your explanation and, though I'm glad you read me as townie, even I'd still have my suspicions about me if I were in your place over my Token being shot post. To put me over someone who hasn't made anybody suspicious all game, like Templar, who you left null, seems like a strange choice to me. I know I lost a bit of townieness when I posted my Token post. I knew I would before I posted it actually, but I'd rather post information that I thought would be relevant in catching scum and lose townie cred than ignore it altogether due to wifom. Actually, I thought that somebody might bring up the idea that I was scum, and that I shot Token just so I could make that post and throw off town's track, but nobody posted suspicions about that. Instead people posted that I had neglected some scenarios, which is true, too. | ||
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On June 25 2014 10:52 Tehpoofter wrote: I think its more scummy how much you thought about how a couple posts would make you look super scummy and how people might blame you for a death. I haven't read your posts so not sure where I stand but this post seems weird. Good on you for saying that its weird nydus has you as town though. Can you explain why you think LT died then? Like any other theories assuming you weren't scum and shot him. On June 24 2014 14:35 Epishade wrote: Ermm, I was really not expecting Token to get shot, of all people. I expected either myself, Haruhi, or Templar to die tbh, as we've all been townread for the majority of the game by most people. Token could have been a potential case if someone were to call him out, so I have a hard time rationalizing why mafia would shoot Token over someone more townie. The only way I can see Token's shot being justified is if mafia thought he was on the right track and shot him to get rid of him, because objectively, that looked like a bad shot to me. You usually shoot people that have little chance of getting lynched for reading townie, but there seemed to be enough suspicion on Token (or at least, more than the three people I listed above) for me to think that that wasn't the reason he was shot. There are a few people that Token scumreads over day 1, and I think that probably played a part in his death. His scumreads: JabberZerg (initially, then changed his mind to a townread at 4:00, which wouldn't have given mafia time to change their shot if JabberZerg wanted to keep Token alive for townreading him, assuming that Jabber is mafia) meatpudding Teemursu Cats His townreads: Haruhi Templar me Hobbit (only in his post at 4:00) Fence reads: Nydus Dunno reads: GlowBear Other peoples So I think the cases should probably be focused on people in his scum list at this point. I mean, he did say for people to look at me, GlowBear, and Nydus day 2 in his 4:02 post, but I'm not considering these specifically right now because they came too late to be able to influence mafia, and I'm only looking at the reasoning for shooting Token here over someone else. He also asked me to post my reads on him, Cats, and meatpudding at this point, too, but I woke up too early today and am dead tired. I'll post my reads on everybody I have reads for sometime tomorrow after I wake up. Night all. | ||
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On June 25 2014 10:52 Tehpoofter wrote: I think its more scummy how much you thought about how a couple posts would make you look super scummy and how people might blame you for a death. I haven't read your posts so not sure where I stand but this post seems weird. Good on you for saying that its weird nydus has you as town though. Can you explain why you think LT died then? Like any other theories assuming you weren't scum and shot him. You think it's scummy for me to analyze my own posts, as town, from other people's perspectives just to see if my posts sound scummy at all? Analyzing how you think people would respond to your own posts is not a move that only scum would do, you know. | ||
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On June 25 2014 11:17 The_Templar wrote: Did nobody read the post? T_T So, that, and no he wasn't aware according to a previous post he made, the bolded parts. He also dismissed the mafia throwing us off, which is sort of weird. Wait, didn't you do the same in reply to GlowBear's #4 point? On June 25 2014 00:08 The_Templar wrote: I was jailed last night. Epishade's post seems to be coming under fire for ignoring some other possibilities that would require a very deceptive mafia. I was going to reply something similar to this in response to Epishade's post. We can't assume that the mafia is trying to cover their tracks, as that doesn't cover half the possibilities. 1) If it's too simple, do you think 2 or 3 of JabberZerg, meatpudding, Teemursu, Cats are mafia? And where would you begin with that list? 2) This is, indeed, more likely, but again that doesn't lead us anywhere, except we can assume only one of those four, at most, are mafia. So if we lynch meatpudding and he flips red then it will be likely those other 3 are town. 3) I don't understand this one, can you clarify further? 4) Very unlikely, considering this is a newbie game. It's also possible that I was targeted by the mafia and Tolkien was killed by a vigilante. But that's somewhat unlikely as well. The bolded part is extremely good. A lot of people on that scum list were scummy to a lot of people, and would want to keep tolkien around to make sure he would get attention from his somewhat aggressive MM lynch (I thought this made him more townish to me at the end), which was scummy to a lot of people. So they have no reason to bother killing him. I thought I said at the beginning that video mafia went pretty quickly and making reads this early was normal there. I'm still tired and will be reading more into these things later, but I am applying for a job this afternoon and won't have a ton of time like I usually do. | ||
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___________________________________________________________________________________________________ If Nydus flips scum, that makes meatpudding, JabberZerg, and me look suspicious for being townread by Nydus, and clears Cats as Nydus voted for Cats earlier, and probably GlowBear for Nydus' recent vote against him too. If Teemursu flips scum, that makes Haruhi, Nydus, Hobbit, Jabber, and GlowBear suspicious for being townread, and clears meatpudding and Cats. If meatpudding flips scum, that makes Nydus suspicious for recently defending him and clears Haruhi and Teemursu. Haruhi for pushing on meatpudding, and Teemursu because meatpudding made a case scumreading him. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ I don't know if I left out anybody in here, as Teemursu's filter is 9 pages...and there is a whole lot to read not just in his filter, but everywhere. Goddammit, this is a mini-mafia, why are there already 60+ pages by day 2? I excluded Templar from here as he was townread or nullread by pretty much everyone, and wouldn't really be useful in determining his alignment from any of these lynches. I think I'm leaning more toward Teemursu or meatpudding right now, but idk exactly. meatpudding hasn't posted more than once after Token was shot, so I don't know what his current thoughts are right now. I'd rather make a vote when he posts I think. Also going to bed right after I finish adding images to and posting the last entry to my blog series in about 10 minutes or so. | ||
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