EPTYou Only Shoot Once Mafia
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 27 2014 14:15 Blazinghand wrote: IHOP sells wafflesGet real, I haven't seen this much waffle since my last trip to IHOP and they don't even DO waffles. Check it. Out of people who have posted, Oats is my least favorite poster so far. Filter. First posts - Caller isn't mafia because this is a scummy way to use a nuke and scumCaller would do something that looked a little townier with it + geript is mafia for pushing a lynch on Caller at this point and masking it as policy. On April 27 2014 00:42 Oatsmaster wrote: Blindly trusting Palmar = meh. The bolded is my least favorite SENTENCE in the game so far. Two things about it. One is that while you can read it as "Palmar is now talking about screwing town over, therefore he's anti-town, and scumCaller wouldn't have nuked anti-town Palmar", it ALSO smells like this weird bootstrapped argument, because Palmar hadn't done anything anti-town at the point of the nuke, and so using Palmar's later behavior to partially justify Caller being town/Caller nuking Palmar feels smelly smelly. Does anyone else read that sentence as a weird justification for Caller's actions (nuking anti-town Palmar) rather than a comment on Caller's alignment given how Palmar's later play goes? Anyway, also keep that comment in mind for second reason it's relevant.Well Palmar says he doesnt have a gun though. What caller is doing if hes scum is totally outing himself, wasting his nuke on someone he has no idea is gonna play or not and essentially trading himself 1 for 1 especially with so much kp in the game someone is gonna shoot him. So fucking stupid it cant be scum. That is a legit heuristic. I could see scumCaller doing this day 2/3 but not now man come on. Also Palmar is not acting in a town-like fashion so yeah, evidence suggests that Caller is town and we dont kill townies. Get your votes off him and onto geript/Ace/All the promoters of Caller scum. I prefer geript though, Ace could be this boneheaded as town. On April 28 2014 01:11 Oatsmaster wrote: Geript was mafia because he was masking a shitty lynch as "policy." Now he's not mafia because he dropped his "policy" lynch, which he would have continued with as mafia.man wtf yamato why are you derailing a lynch and not proposing anything else you useless bastard. For the record, I am totes fine with SnB lynch and I now think that geript is not scum because he dropped his policy lynch. Which he had arguably more reason to continue with ##unvote ##vote SnB Im going to sleep, kill scum guyys pls. Oats has no reason to think geript is town for this. If someone pushes a lynch you think is shitty and tries to mask it as policy, you're saying THEY ARE MAFIA for doing that. Town doesn't try to get mislynches ever, not by hiding behind "policy", not by hiding behind other words, town doesn't ever push mislynches, they push people they think are mafia. Oats is saying Geript was basically making up reasons to push Caller --> was pushing mislynches --> should be mafia, the end. His giving up that push doesn't make him "not scum," he simply stopped pushing Caller, but the push itself was there and appears to be scum-minded from Oats and just stopping it SHOULD NOT swap Oat's read. (That point is not expressed as well as it should be, but you should get the gist). ALSO --> at this point Caller's nuke was modconfirmed dud. ~12 hours before this. Oats pops into the thread to say he doesn't think geript is mafia anymore (which I don't like), vote SnB, and says NOTHING about the nuke/caller/Palmar. Remember that Geript was claiming earlier that Palmar was playing anti-town, and this was one reason Caller was townie (Caller was town for shooting Palmar, who later played anti-town, meaning Palmar was not town-aligned, and Caller has to be town for shooting someone not town-aligned). For someone who thinks Palmar isn't town-aligned, WHY IS HE NOT VOTING PALMAR OR MENTIONING PALMAR?! This is, imo, the biggest thing. Oats says Palmar was playing anti-town, is SO SURE Palmar is anti-town that part of why Caller is town is that his nuke is going on someone anti-town, but he doesn't vote Palmar, he doesn't talk about Palmar's pardon, he doesn't talk about Caller's nuke being fake and on Palmar, he just does what I feel to be a poopy 180 on Geript, then votes SnB without really any significant comment, without showing interest in a dude he thought was anti-town or any followup to the fake nuke. (You guys should vote oats too!) ##vote: Oatsmaster | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I don't like his defenses as much, but they're very prickly. The only time I can remember being scum with SnB, he was muy lurky, and not big on responding to things/trying to save self, he mostly just let himself go (It was chrono, it was MUCH later in game, it's not a 1:1 comparison). Even though it isn't 1:1, SnB responding to pressure by saying Koshi manufactured a case on him, taking time to address it, essentially calling Koshi scummy (town doesn't manufacture things, they can be WRONG or believe things incorrectly, but they don't manufacture), and then calling BH scummy, while addressing both their cases and still calling VE scummy as well....that's not what I'd expect from scum SnB. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 28 2014 03:13 Koshi wrote: Next time you make a post, either just to answer or for other reasons, I'd like to see your thoughts on oats/what I wrote about oats.Meh... ABBA bro you better be not be lying scum here. It's interesting SnB didn't mention geript. Because SnB disagrees with my case and calls me scummy for it but geript gave me a townread for my case. I don't know anymore. All my scummers are voting for SnB. I let the vets do their stuff and vote accordingly. atm I like for lynch: 1) Palmar 2) SnB 3) VE 4) geript Vets are wrong plenty of times, and tend to die early if town. Better to have your own thoughts than just sheep mindlessly, and if you think vets is so schmexy, better than non-vets are being super townie and maybe have to get shot before quiet vets. If nothing else, that last bit is entirely true, and the more you value vet contributions, the more you should want to be contributing as a non-vet, in order to keep others alive and kickin' | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 28 2014 06:13 geript wrote: He did. In fact, 60% of his posts have either concerned his oats read or asking people about his oats read. For reference, here is the read - + Show Spoiler +I remember seeing that Austin had a scum read on Oats. I strongly disagree with that. I wish I had the energy to go look at the catastrophy QT again to see how his mentality lines up. On April 28 2014 02:58 austinmcc wrote: Out of people who have posted, Oats is my least favorite poster so far. Filter. First posts - Caller isn't mafia because this is a scummy way to use a nuke and scumCaller would do something that looked a little townier with it + geript is mafia for pushing a lynch on Caller at this point and masking it as policy. Blindly trusting Palmar = meh. The bolded is my least favorite SENTENCE in the game so far. Two things about it. One is that while you can read it as "Palmar is now talking about screwing town over, therefore he's anti-town, and scumCaller wouldn't have nuked anti-town Palmar", it ALSO smells like this weird bootstrapped argument, because Palmar hadn't done anything anti-town at the point of the nuke, and so using Palmar's later behavior to partially justify Caller being town/Caller nuking Palmar feels smelly smelly. Does anyone else read that sentence as a weird justification for Caller's actions (nuking anti-town Palmar) rather than a comment on Caller's alignment given how Palmar's later play goes? Anyway, also keep that comment in mind for second reason it's relevant. Geript was mafia because he was masking a shitty lynch as "policy." Now he's not mafia because he dropped his "policy" lynch, which he would have continued with as mafia. Oats has no reason to think geript is town for this. If someone pushes a lynch you think is shitty and tries to mask it as policy, you're saying THEY ARE MAFIA for doing that. Town doesn't try to get mislynches ever, not by hiding behind "policy", not by hiding behind other words, town doesn't ever push mislynches, they push people they think are mafia. Oats is saying Geript was basically making up reasons to push Caller --> was pushing mislynches --> should be mafia, the end. His giving up that push doesn't make him "not scum," he simply stopped pushing Caller, but the push itself was there and appears to be scum-minded from Oats and just stopping it SHOULD NOT swap Oat's read. (That point is not expressed as well as it should be, but you should get the gist). ALSO --> at this point Caller's nuke was modconfirmed dud. ~12 hours before this. Oats pops into the thread to say he doesn't think geript is mafia anymore (which I don't like), vote SnB, and says NOTHING about the nuke/caller/Palmar. Remember that Geript was claiming earlier that Palmar was playing anti-town, and this was one reason Caller was townie (Caller was town for shooting Palmar, who later played anti-town, meaning Palmar was not town-aligned, and Caller has to be town for shooting someone not town-aligned). For someone who thinks Palmar isn't town-aligned, WHY IS HE NOT VOTING PALMAR OR MENTIONING PALMAR?! This is, imo, the biggest thing. Oats says Palmar was playing anti-town, is SO SURE Palmar is anti-town that part of why Caller is town is that his nuke is going on someone anti-town, but he doesn't vote Palmar, he doesn't talk about Palmar's pardon, he doesn't talk about Caller's nuke being fake and on Palmar, he just does what I feel to be a poopy 180 on Geript, then votes SnB without really any significant comment, without showing interest in a dude he thought was anti-town or any followup to the fake nuke. (You guys should vote oats too!) ##vote: Oatsmaster Why do you strongly disagree? Also, VE, On April 28 2014 02:58 austinmcc wrote: VE, can you give me your thoughts on caller's alignment re: nuke targeting, given the nuke was fake and not real? (your bit on how caller targeted palmar over foolishness/ace) On April 28 2014 04:02 austinmcc wrote: What's the #1 scummy thing about BH? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
You can answer in a multifaceted post if you'd like, but I'm interested in your thoughts re: my thoughts moreso than general characterizations about oats's meta. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 28 2014 06:46 justanothertownie wrote: You get +1 points for thinking what I've been thinking since writing that, but he's still the scummiest boy in town to me.The problem with going after oats now is that he won't be able to defend himself if he is town. His filter looks horrible though. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 28 2014 06:53 yamato77 wrote: Given that you seem to be saying "I thought oats was threatening VE/being aggressive", do you agree with geript's meta on oats?for some reason I thought oats posted this, and was town for it instead it just reaffirms my thought: we are NOT lynching snb ##unvote ##vote: oatsmaster On April 27 2014 05:18 geript wrote: Agree/disagree/I dunno, it's oats ?Oats--So I've pretty much owned Scum!Oats everytime I've seen him. I have a really good read on him and I'm pretty sure he's town here. Basically, as town he's more aggressive and offensive than he is as scum. He also lets himself be more "free" and will follow whatever dumb idea pops into his head. 4 | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 28 2014 07:02 Koshi wrote: Why isn't Oats lynchbait? Small filter. AFK till lynch. On April 28 2014 07:03 Koshi wrote: If you're around for a moment:I read Oats filter after reading austin case and I don't see the connection. The case is larger than his filter. (1) How is his small filter different from anyone else's small filter? Do you think anyone is lynching him for filter size? (2) Do you LIKE his filter? Do you DISLIKE his filter? Did you do anything other than just read it? If nothing else, how does the progression I think x is scummy I think y is townie for shooting x I think y is so townie that the people voting/pushing y are scummy ***y's shot was fake*** Let's kill r (with no mention of x, y, or the shot failling) sit with you? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Now you can explain what's so anti-town about yamato / why he's worth a shot D1 / why anyone else being anti-town isn't AND you can post something silly AND you can respond to people when they question/agree with your reasoning I'll look at Sicilian and poke around snb's here filter more, but I'd still much much much much rather lynch oats right now | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
That's hardly the level of enthusiasm I'd expect out of him. If I recall in Sicilian mafia he kinda just rolled over when it came time to lynch him. He'd still post and refute the claims but he was hardly aggressive about it. from foolishness re: snb. That's what I remember from chrono trigger as well. However, I disagree with Foolishness and anyone else who agrees with that overall point that SnB has rolled over here or didn't care/fight, I read SnB's calling everyone who writes anything sizeable on him scum to be the OPPOSITE. Koshi calls SnB scum and SnB responds with a bunch of text about why Koshi is wrong, and a final thought that Koshi is driving a fake narrative (this is meh for SnB, he's answering and not rolling over, actually addressing the case, but the response is "fake narrative" --> ? (doesn't say that koshi is SCUM pushing a fake narrative, even though that sounds like a thing that you think people are scum for doing) - + Show Spoiler + On April 28 2014 01:38 strongandbig wrote: So koshi's reason why I'm scum is that I have strange reads. Lets talk about this in detail. First paragraph: I had a gut "this is scummy" reaction when I saw ve's post. I didn't have it on rereading but the thing you're quoting is from my initial read through post. Anyway you're committing a fallacy here. When a player makes a post about another player, what that post says about the poster and what it says about the subject of the post are two independent questions. First, because pre flip connection theories are inherently unreliable; and second, because even if the poster is scum, his post can still be attacking either another townie or a scumbuddy, and judging the post based on the perceived alignment of the poster is therefore an exercise in wifom. What I'm saying is, even though caller did throw a nuke and looked like scum, I try to judge whether I agree with his reactions and reasoning about other players separately from whether I think those reactions and reasoning make him scum. Sometimes those conclusions feed into each other, like if someone's reasoning is bad and I can find a scum motivation for that bad reasoning. So yes, I do "quote a post of Caller saying you totally agree with him about his VE read without taking into account this guy just dropped a nuke." Now, point (1). You're twisting my words here. I didn't say I couldn't see why palmar might think caller is scum. Palmar had not posted a single thing at that point either accusing caller of being scum, or explaining why he thought caller was scum. I thought and still think it was more likely that palmar had simply raged out at caller and wanted him dead regardless of caller's alignment. Plus, the merchant stuff wasn't useless filler; it was evidence that palmar is the kind of player who will rage out and play counterproductively if he gets pissed off, because that's what his play looked like to me in the later parts of catastrophe. Point (2) - do you honestly disagree? At this point, Palmar thought like everyone else did that the nuke would land at deadline. Saving the pardoner power until deadline rather than soft-claiming it seems like much stronger scum play to me. First explain why this is incorrect or non-townie logic from me, then call me scum for it. Point (3) - my entire read of palmar at this point was based on the fact that he was pissed off at caller for nuking him. That's like the whole reasoning I explained in the paragraph that you labelled (1). How is that me knowing palmar is scum? Like, how does this show me having extra information at all? Also, you're not reading what I wrote again. What I said was that if caller is scum and palmar is town, then caller would likely be bulletproof or something, because palmar is likely to attack back. As scum, I do think a town palmar makes sense as a target for a nuke. It's getting rid of a strong town player, plus palmar is likely to rage and create chaos. The problem is, palmar is also the kind of target I would expect from a troll caller, for the same reason. Anyway - none of the points in this case actually make sense. They don't connect to what I said at all. Koshi is building a case for me being scum but it doesn't engage with what I actually said, it just works it into a fake narrative that I'm scum. BH calls SnB scum, SnB writes a post on BH's case and also calls BH scum - + Show Spoiler + On April 28 2014 02:07 strongandbig wrote: Just to talk for a second about bh's case - it's stupid and lazy. He also uses way too many words to say I'm not being committal enough / am giving myself room to back out. This is the TL meta at work, no room for nuance or honest actual thought processes. The thing is, I feel like it's such a trope that I'm not even mad - like, the case is stupid but less stupid than koshi's cases. I said exactly what I thought in the post bh doesn't like, I guess I should've made up more machismo. Anyway, bh asked me to read him as well so here it is. He accused geript of overexplaining and put an early vote down, flipped that vote a few times, and made his own overexplained case on me. Honestly, I've stopped expecting much out of bh. I know his read on me is wrong, and I really disagreed with how he justified his vote on geript. I know he won't be happy if I just say "he's been wrong in a scummy way, but his posts don't give me a strong gut impression and I don't really expect him to be right so I have a mild scum lean" so I'm gonna go ahead and say "he's 100% scum seal of approval lynch this motherfucker but lynch VE first and probably some other people too." Then Foolishness calls SnB scum, in part because he's not pissed/fighty enough about people wanting to lynch him (ignoring the above posts which had already been made) Overall, I DON'T think that SnB has been as event/claim focused as he was in Sicilian, very very minor but he has a couple posts on Palmar/Caller/VE's reaction, and then just drops it. He doesn't go nuts when Caller says the nuke is fake, doesn't do anything with Palmar's rando-pardon on prplhz, etc. That reads unlike Sicilian to me, where mafia SnB kinda used that crap as a jumping off point to get active. Moreover, I disagree with Foolishness that he's just rolling over and dying here, he sort of halfway tried to push Vivax off himself in Sicilian, followed by kinda just dying. He wasn't running around calling his accusers mafia, and he didn't make giant posts trying to show why they were wrong (the --> koshi past was giant, the --> BH post was not). I really don't like the bit of Foolishness's case that relies on SnB not reacting properly, because I think it's misrepresenting the reaction here, which looks to be, at the very least, somewhere between "I WILL KILL YOUR WOMEN AND CHILDREN, ME-VOTERS" and "I AM A MEEK KITTEN AND SHALL NOT REALLY FIGHT THIS LYNCH, JUST KINDA MEWL AND HOPE YOU LYNCH SOMETHING ELSE" I use Foolishness's case here because he's the one who actually did legwork about other games, because SnB didn't directly respond to Foolishness, and because at least some of the votes on SnB seem to be moving because of Foolishness. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 28 2014 08:49 Oatsmaster wrote: You said geript looked town for dropping his policy lynch. You didn't MENTION caller, palmar, the nuke, ANYTHING beyond geript just dropping his policy lynch. well what the fuck. ##unvote ##vote Slam The reason I didnt talk about nuke+caller+palmar is that happened fucking long ago and it did have an impact on my read, ie geript town. Austin, you know when town does stupid shit it makes them look like scum but when they stop their stupid shit it doesnt make them look like scum? I dont know if you know how to play, but reads change based on new info. Meh i need more time to figure out why the fuck caller instantly shoots a fake nuke because its not for the lulz but I think that Palmar's actions are of angry town rather than angry scum. Angry scum will be angrier and less inclined to play the game than palmar was. On April 28 2014 01:11 Oatsmaster wrote: That doesn't read like "new info concerning Palmar, caller, the nuke changed my mind." Moreover, geript changed his vote because of cases on SnB, especially Koshi's case (geript had koshi super mafia, was voting caller, then super liked koshi's case to the point that koshi because town and he voted snb). Geript's unvote of caller had little/nothing to do with Palmar/caller, more to do with Koshi/SnB, and so I'm particularly curious how that stuff had an impact on your geript read.man wtf yamato why are you derailing a lynch and not proposing anything else you useless bastard. For the record, I am totes fine with SnB lynch and I now think that geript is not scum because he dropped his policy lynch. Which he had arguably more reason to continue with ##unvote ##vote SnB Im going to sleep, kill scum guyys pls. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
##donate: 3 posts to Koshi That last one put you one over what you had, dunno if there are repercussions, but now you can at least post 2x more. I BEEN WATCHIN' YOU, KOSHI. Why swing back in with a nothingpost, when knowing you're working on borrowed/lessthanborrowed posts, to throwaway that JAT is mafia? Do you supermega<3 Foolishness's post on SnB? I know you were scummy on SnB yourself, but how does Foolishness's post, in particular, read to you? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 28 2014 09:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Really? I'd be interested in you pointing out where this happens.Geript save me!! Geript changed his vote because palmar didnt die. Not for anything else austin. You must be deluded to think that. Anyway pretty much all the nuke did was waste time and a pardoner. I cant believe you guys dont want to lynch alak for that horrific shot. Yamato was annoying but not scum or shotworthy. Look a the way he rationalizes it like shooting someone for the sake of shooting someone rather than shooting scum Cuz after the fake shot, geript NEVER MENTIONS the fake shot, and mentions caller/palmar in relation to someone else feeling like they had too much information, not as a way of giving any kind of read on caller or palmar themselves, until writing this post. On April 27 2014 15:46 geript wrote: This post in which it APPEARS that geript dislikes SnB and has come around on Koshi due to Koshi's case on SnB, and not for any reasons whatsoever involving caller/palmar/nukes/crabcakes.I think I'm wrong on Koshi. That case on SnB is really quite good. BH's less so but not awful. Koshi for right now is the hero this town deserves. I'm really disappointed that I didn't see this before :/ S&B's early filter from Catastrophe HERE looks really different, but I'm not quite sure how that translates over. I compared it to his filter from Sicilian HERE where he was mafia dayvig. BH's points against S&B actually look a lot better on that because S&B was so "I don't know" and 50/50 on shit. In comparison, S&B looks a bit hedgy in his posts in Catastrophe but his posts come off as more matter of fact or that it's just how he feels. Whereas in Sicilian, it just looks and feels like he's saying stuff because he feels compelled to talk. I don't think that Koshi's point from his list post (says "let's talk about who we think are scum bu doesn't") is a good one, but damn I really like his short case on S&B. #unvote #vote strongandbig 11 Sandro, would be interested in minor explanations, specifically whether you're drawing connections betwixt folks or whether they're all just scummy in their own rights. Also, pretend (if you're not actually there) that you're in the mafia QT this game please. Does the mafia team push all mafia duders to post their full post count each day? Do they think giving away posts is a good strategy to look townier? Do they not care at all about the restriction and just play however they want? Essentially, do you think a mafia team is going to shift their post counts at all due to the restriction, because they think a certain way of using posts feels townie? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 28 2014 09:47 sandroba wrote: I disliked Foolishness's case on SnB, when I often find myself liking town foolishness's cases. It's been awhile since I played with mafia Foolishness, Bureacracy and Parallel Worlds. I don't fully agree with scum foolishness busting out D1 cases, iirc he didn't in Bureacracy until he was really getting hammered for NOT doing it, and I remember him not getting moving for a bit in Parallel. So, I'm not inclined to super sheep your foolishness meta there, specifically don't agree with how mafia foolishness acts. I'm not inclined to lynch him D1, and I'm certainly not inclined to try and start swapping votes to him at the tail end of a D1 where town hasn't gotten a majority all day and has a bunch of sneaky snakes. His SnB case worries me, but only because I'm reacting differently to that than to cases he's made in recent games we've played. Enough to watch him. Not enough to put him top on any list I'd make.I honestly could care less by post cap and giving away posts. I dont think it means shit. And yes I find them all scummy for different reasons, it's d1 and trying to put a team together or talking about what might be their strategy is a waste of time. Tell me if you agree with what I said about foolishness instead. It's difficult to tell whether you're associating people or find them all scummy in their own right when you don't write anything and there are ties between folks based on pushing one lynch/not pushing another. Just checking. On April 28 2014 09:57 geript wrote: I'd totally claim to be more oats-whispery than you. Or at the very least I can often identify town oats even when people are trying to lynch him. Regardless of who whispers best, I think you be wrong.To snooglewoogle I am the oats whisperer. I don't think any of your points actually make him scum. Normal people, maybe but not oats IMO. I'm really surprised slam shot without any provocation. That's pretty far out his character. Like really really far out of his character. Enough so that I'm considering him again. I don't get why Sandroba doesn't like the SnB stuf. ~16 ***NEW THINGS*** On April 28 2014 06:46 justanothertownie wrote: This was a legit point. I don't love the idea of lynching someone when they won't be around to defend themselves. BOO ME FOR MAKING MY POST LATE IN THE DAY. BOO ME. There, now we're done.The problem with going after oats now is that he won't be able to defend himself if he is town. His filter looks horrible though. HOWEVER Oatsmaster DID come back to thread. Now let's see what he came back to the thread and did, and how he defended himself. On April 28 2014 08:49 Oatsmaster wrote: Caller was TOWN for nuking palmar, because what scum would out themselves, so stupid it couldn't be scum. Slam is MAFIA (or voteworthy) for shooting someone without provocation. Why the difference? There isn't one given.well what the fuck. ##unvote ##vote Slam The reason I didnt talk about nuke+caller+palmar is that happened fucking long ago and it did have an impact on my read, ie geript town. Austin, you know when town does stupid shit it makes them look like scum but when they stop their stupid shit it doesnt make them look like scum? I dont know if you know how to play, but reads change based on new info. Meh i need more time to figure out why the fuck caller instantly shoots a fake nuke because its not for the lulz but I think that Palmar's actions are of angry town rather than angry scum. Angry scum will be angrier and less inclined to play the game than palmar was. Also, in his defense, his geript read changed BECAUSE of fakenuke/caller/palmar, even if he didn't mention any of that. GREAT GREAT, OATS IS HERE AND CAN DEFEND HIMSELF, HE'LL DO THAT, WE'LL SEE IF WE'RE STILL SCUMMY ON HIM. GOGO DIALOGUE AND DEFENDING SELF! When questioned further about how fakenuke/caller/palmar led oats to change his mind on Geript --> On April 28 2014 09:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Ah, gotcha. So geript changed his vote for fakenuke/caller/palmar reasons, and THAT is why those things play into Oats's shifted read on Geript.Geript save me!! Geript changed his vote because palmar didnt die. Not for anything else austin. You must be deluded to think that.Anyway pretty much all the nuke did was waste time and a pardoner. I cant believe you guys dont want to lynch alak for that horrific shot. Yamato was annoying but not scum or shotworthy. Look a the way he rationalizes it like shooting someone for the sake of shooting someone rather than shooting scum Except if you read Geript's filter, that is 10000000% NOT THE CASE. It was a problem that oats wouldn't be able to defend himself Oats came back and had a chance to defend himself Oats responded to a single thing, by misrepresentation/blatant lie When offered an opportunity to point out where the thing he said happened actually happened, he never responded If ANYONE would like to show where geript's mind changed because of fakenuke/caller/palmar, please be my guest and quote some posts and show me what oats is seeing. You really should do that. If you CANNOT, then you need to read Oats's return to thread, the point he tried to defend himself on, and go "well gee golly gosh, that right there is just not true" and then you need to ask yourself why someone defends themselves by making crap up. He didn't leave the thread, cuz he thinks Sandro is bad, but neither he nor anyone else is gonna be able to find Geript talking about fakenuke/caller/palmar leading him to change his vote from caller to SnB. Specifically, dudemen on SnB, please read Oats's return to the thread. EVEN IF YOU WANT TO VOTE SNB NO MATTER WHAT THE END, please tell me whether you think Oats is making up a defense by misrepresenting/lying, or whether you can actually find posts that say what he say was say-ed. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 28 2014 01:11 Oatsmaster wrote: man wtf yamato why are you derailing a lynch and not proposing anything else you useless bastard. For the record, I am totes fine with SnB lynch and I now think that geript is not scum because he dropped his policy lynch. Which he had arguably more reason to continue with ##unvote ##vote SnB Im going to sleep, kill scum guyys pls. On April 28 2014 08:49 Oatsmaster wrote: well what the fuck. ##unvote ##vote Slam The reason I didnt talk about nuke+caller+palmar is that happened fucking long ago and it did have an impact on my read, ie geript town. Austin, you know when town does stupid shit it makes them look like scum but when they stop their stupid shit it doesnt make them look like scum? I dont know if you know how to play, but reads change based on new info. Meh i need more time to figure out why the fuck caller instantly shoots a fake nuke because its not for the lulz but I think that Palmar's actions are of angry town rather than angry scum. Angry scum will be angrier and less inclined to play the game than palmar was. On April 28 2014 09:36 Oatsmaster wrote: What townie returns to thread and unvotes a near-majority candidate to be the only person on slam?Geript save me!! Geript changed his vote because palmar didnt die. Not for anything else austin. You must be deluded to think that. Anyway pretty much all the nuke did was waste time and a pardoner. I cant believe you guys dont want to lynch alak for that horrific shot. Yamato was annoying but not scum or shotworthy. Look a the way he rationalizes it like shooting someone for the sake of shooting someone rather than shooting scum Also, please show me the posts that back up the bolded statement, the last bolded statement. Or you, geript, can explain why oats is correct that you unvoted geript because of fakenuke/caller/palmar, and not because you liked Koshi's SnB case and thought SnB was scummy. Cuz if you can't do that, then hi, here's a dude whose defense 100% consists of a single lie. When asked to explain that lie, he failed to do so (despite still being around, because he called sandro a baddie). (Oats I didn't love the bits where slam tried to make a lot of sense in his responses post-shot, but I don't think he's dying today, and we can watch him throughout the rest of the game and judge him based on his play/posting rather than the shot. I've had mixed success reading him, am not the slamwhisperer) | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 28 2014 11:59 Blazinghand wrote: Is oats scummy/scum? You've not mentioned him and didn't respond to my question earlier. Regardless of the lynch/no-lynch situation, whatchoo think about oats's alignment?fine i can't have a no-lynch ##unvote ##vote oats On April 28 2014 11:14 geript wrote: If Oats's reads change because of posts, or because a fortune cookie told him to, or for NO REASON WHATSOEVER, then that's varying degrees of fine by me.Part of the reasoning for switching off Caller is that the fake nuke changes the whole point of lynching him in the first place. I don't find that strange to include. So I'd say you're half right, ie Oats not really properly explaining my vote on SnB but I'm really not seeing this as an important issue. If Oats says his reads change because of x, when x doesn't happen, then that's NOT fine by me. And if Oats's reads change in a way that I don't think they SHOULD, or it appears he gives zero craps about his reads (Palmar is playing anti-town and Caller is town for killing him --> NEVER MENTION PALMAR AGAIN AND LYNCH SNB OVER PALMAR AND NEVER EVER EVER DISCUSS PALMAR AGAIN, making it appear that he's not actually trying to read Palmar and/or doesn't care about lynching his scumreads). It's an important issue, to me, because IF he's "not really properly explaining" your change in votes, then what he's "not really properly explaining" is why he never mentions his anti-town dude palmar again and why you are town for giving up on a policy lynch when he didn't think you were policy lynching, just using that as cover for a mislynch (because again, you were "masking" your lynch as a policy lynch). Instead, he "not properly explains" what is basically 60% or more of his contributions to this game. That is not good. If he can't explain where he's getting this stuff from, then he can't explain his reads/votes, which are really what he's done this game. Not only that, but it's not that he goes "Nope, can't explain it!" It's that he TRIES to, by saying something that isn't true. There are like...two trains of thoughts there: (1) I am oats. Geript is scum for pushing this caller lynch. He says it's a policy lynch for caller's actions, but he's really "masking" it as policy ----> geript is mafia for pushing caller and is trying to get a mislynch, by getting votes for his "policy." Palmar is anti-town for saying he'll mess with town if we don't kill caller. Okay geript is now town for unvoting Caller. With NO explanation for why you were pushing a mislynch by "masking" your caller lynch as policy can suddenly be a town thing when you unvote (he was lynching you because he found your MOTIVES scummy, not because he thought votes on caller in general were scummy. your MOTIVES didn't change with your unvote, only the location of your vote). Do people see this? Oats doesn't think Geript is policy lynching Caller. Oats thinks Geript wants a mislynch, and is covering himself by CLAIMING it's policy -----> he thinks Geript's motivations behind the lynch are scummy scummy scum scum. But when Geript does nothing more than unvote, doesn't give any updated caller read, doesn't say caller is now town, blah blah, Oats unvotes him. While Geript's VOTE has changed, his REASONING never changed, and Oats appeared to actually dislike Geript's reasoning and thought he was pushing a mislynch. Oats shouldn't be magically happy just because Geript typed a new vote, without seeing anything else. (2) I am oats. Palmar is anti-town for holding town hostage. Geript is superscum for pushing Caller. Oh, Geript unvoted Caller and is now townie. Let's vote SnB. No mention of Palmar again. Not when moving his vote ("I'm oats and I'm ahppy to lynch SnB or Palmar, who I still think is superscum how do you guys not see this?"), and not when returning to thread ("austinmcc is wrong about me and my palmar read, here's why and here's my current palmar read"). He says NOTHING about Palmar ever again, despite calling him anti-town and scummy and moving his vote later. Just no words on Palmar, and when pointed out that he said NOTHING about palmar, he proceeded to.........say nothing about Palmar. ((3) is that Oats says "Geript changed his vote FOR THIS REASON AND THIS REASON ONLY" despite providing no quotes that show that, there being NONE found by anyone else, and even Geript himself saying that oats didn't "really properly explain" wtf he's talking about and why he thought what he thought) I'ma check in again in 10 or so, then go to sleep. OOP, can you discuss YOUR thoughts in particular, regardless of what anyone else has said, about SnB and oats? Why do you feel how you feel, is there a particular thing in either filter you think others are missing? Is there like...one specific thing in either filter that makes you 99.9999999999% sure of either's alignment? Do you like butter? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 28 2014 12:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Any reasons?##Unvote ##Vote: strongandbig I've exceeded my allotted post limit. I have my reservations about a strongandbig lynch, but I think Oats is town Also, if I call you mafia will you read my posts and answer questions/talk to me? + Show Spoiler + Otherwise, I'll just resort to adding this to every post? + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yn7vqjk.png?1) Odin, no problem on timing, I'd just like to see your thoughts. (Also, as far as whatever goes, we have seen ONE person shoot. Alakaslam shot, he shot yamato. Nobody else shot yamato. Nobody else has legit shot anyone in a dead-making capacity. Oats didn't shoot anything or anyone, he voted Alakaslam because of Alakaslam's shot on Yamato) BH, still curious about your read on oats, along with VE's. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
The OP only has Day Vigi as a kill power role (besides america), which indicates to me that we don't have normal vigis/NK roles. People should read. There are variations, but the fact that "Day Vigi" is the role and not "Vigi" means MAYBE no NKs. If you ARE townie and DO have a shot, I don't think you should be using it. Wait for more info. Geript, why do you dislike that post of Cephiro's? You can add general Cephiro-is-mafia stuff for flavor, if you'd like, but why do you want Ceph shot in response to that post? On April 28 2014 12:59 Foolishness wrote: I will when it becomes a more relevant issue (focusing on snb and oats right now). I assure you I haven't forgotten. That means later tonight or tomorrow (real-life tomorrow not game tomorrow) before someone throws a fit at me for ignoring it. On April 29 2014 06:34 Foolishness wrote: Foolishness, come on down. You're the first contestant on "What colors showed up in Oats's PM and why were they red?" In the lightning bonus round, you get to answer the question "Why should we be lynching oats tomorrow instead of anyone else?"Or maybe what really happened is that a bunch of townies pushed a lynch onto another townie and the mafia sat back and watched it all happened. This is even more likely given that there wasn't ever that hard of a push against anyone else (the Oatsmaster case never got the traction, though to be honest I would probably lynch him). Sandroba, do you really think Foolishness is the lynch tomorrow? Why Foolishness over oats? Wave, what is "oats being oats"? I know you can do "x being x" for some folks, but I don't know what parts of oats's filter you think are him being him, rather than any kind of alignment stuff. Could you separate out (if possible) things that *I* think are relevant to oats's alignment into things you think are oats being oats and "other stuff"? NOTHING I've seen has made me want to back down from this at all, so let's chat and you either convince yourself one way or another or convince me or whatever. (Also, Sandroba is very very very unlikely to be mafia) Slam, did you follow people's reactions to your shot well at all? Regardless of whether that's a yes or no, you know your own alignment, you know you shot someone and maybeprobablydefinitely should not have, especially if you actually hadn't read his recent posting, so I would <3<3<3 you looking through REACTIONS to your shot for what you find scummiest/towniest? Odin, I would <3<3<3<3 (even one more than slam can get) if you would try and focus on anything and everything that is NOT claims/shots/rolecrap during D2 (and for anything else you post N1). People softclaimed and hardclaimed and did crap and I'd much much much rather lynch people who do stuff that is SCUMMY than people who claimed something or shot someone or whatever. If you're town, you didn't seem to be sure of oats OR snb yesterday, and we need town people to have reads and know who they want to lynch. If town, you seemed distracted by claims/shots and crap, looked like more thought going into that than whether the leading candidates were town or mafia, and that ain't good for us. Please please. If you're mafia, none of that applies and plz concede. Ace, you were "not sure" of Oats but scummier on Oats than SnB. You're Foolishness's phone-a-friend for "Why should we lynch Oats tomorrow over anyone else, including Palmar." Ring ring. He's stumped and needs your help answering. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 29 2014 09:30 Oatsmaster wrote: Geript says NOTHING about the nuke, waits 2.5 hours, and THEN changes his vote to SnB after Koshi posts a case on SnB and Geript likes Koshi's case, mentions coming around on Koshi, and mentions finding SnB scummy.Ceph sounds really whiny. Austin, everything you put in your case is me not mentioning caller/nuke/palmar. Not bad considering it happened 12h before my post. I already read it, made my conclusions and moved on. Absolutely no point bringing it up again. Thats totes scummy. Geript obviously stopped his tunnel because palmar didnt die, not cause of a sick case on someone else. This is townie because faking a shot and fucking off gives even more eason To push caller. Ive said this already and you just keep twisting things to suit your own narrative that im so super scum. The reason Geript changed his vote was: Nuke stuff Koshi made a case on SnB that Geript liked At the very least, they're jointly involved, and based on the fact that the vote change is RIGHT after Koshi's SnB stuff and the vote post is 100% about Koshi/SnB, I'm going to go out on a gigantic limb and say that Geript has other reasons for moving his vote. It's not even that he was "tunnel"ed on Caller, he posts why he wants Caller dead, votes Caller, and has been talking about Koshi and other crap as well. You've said things I think are false, or said things I don't think explain anything you're trying to explain. So far, no dice on being not-scummy. I WOULD like you to contribute and do stuff though, because towards the end of D1 you half-sorta-ish defended yourself and then peaced out. On April 29 2014 09:31 geript wrote: Ceph has been lurking and hasn't taken any realistic stance on anything this whole game. Apparently he finds the people who were on the SnB wagon scummy, but he never talks about it. Apparently, he's got ok reads or something but doesn't want to contribute until halfway through day 3 where there's no longer a good chance of a mislynch (bullshit). He hasn't bothered trying to look town. He hasn't try to push good lynches. He hasn't done shit. He's a decent player and the last time he was a shitty lurker like this he was mafia. I see no reason to expect him to derivate from his shitty lurker status or provide something useful to the game. So I want him dead with a capitol DED. Snooglewoogle, How many people didn't try to push good lynches/didn't take realistic stances on anything/much? Also, the very fact that his response to who would you shoot is "Nobody" grants him MINOR town points in my eyes, but the fact that he then writes a treatise on WHY he doesn't want to shoot anyone and why he should be masoned and why the earth is round and why he really doesn't want to shoot anyone just reeks townie to me. Scum can say ANYONE they'd shoot with reason --> Palmar, Caller, Sandroba, Foolishness, Me, Oats, Slam, scum has any number of answers with reasons at their fingertips. Instead of saying who he'd shoot, he says he doesn't want to kill people (which yeah, scum can say), and then he spends years explaining himself. Scum that go with the "nobody" option don't spend that long trying to explain it, imo. I think you're 100% off base. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 29 2014 11:02 geript wrote: You shoot nobody. Dear snooglewoogle. I will take your points under consideration. I would still shoot him personally, but that's easy to say because I don't have a gun. Also, I get what you're saying about Oats. I just disagree. Please pretend they're both town... who do you shoot then? If I assume they're both town, then I'd shoot Plammer for playing dota. Or Foolishness. He seems weird too. ps. I'm not your snooglewoogle; you're my snooglewoogle. You have to come up with a different name for me. It's how the game works. If you're compulsive, you have two choices: (1) Still shoot oats. Cuz we'd just be pretending, and pretending don't change things, and you want to be 1000000% sure. There's also minor added value to shooting oats, in that multiple people have posted about votes/vote switching, and votes matter a lot more when we know the alignments of BOTH snb and oats. People who want to draw conclusions from votes atm are silly, I think, because they don't know whether this was town/scum or town/town, and it's likely mafia behavior is slightly different depending on what scenario we were in. (2) Not foolishness. Whatever sandro may say, I don't want to gun down suspicious Foolishness on N1. He's not infallible, he's suspicious, but I think shooting Foolishness N1 because he's weird/suspicious is a bad idea. Like ... rando shooting yamato towards the end of D1 bad idea. (3) Heavy superlurkers. Gumshoe superlurking doesn't say anything about his alignment, but it would be nice to get rid of ?s early, and I'd rather get rid of ?s than non-oats-s. (4) Possibly Koshi but don't shoot Koshi. I LIED ABOUT THERE BEING TWO CHOICES. Also, because you used a semi-colon, I'm willing to come up with a different name for you, and you can be Pookie Pie. Look look I won't shut up here's oats stuff. I'm going to keep trying to say this in a clear manner and not muck it up. Oats votes Geript because On April 26 2014 22:25 Oatsmaster wrote: Oats does not think Geript is policy lynching Caller. Oats thinks Geript is PRETENDING to policy lynch Caller, and really just wants a mislynch. Pretending to be policy lynching while seeking a mislynch is NOT townie behavior, it's scummy behavior. The MOTIVES and geript's REACTION are scummy, therefore he's scum, therefore oats votes him.No, trading 1 for 1 is dumb and stupid for scum either way. Firstly, Caller knows that this shit is totally not helpful for scum especially with no flips. Its way better to claim nuke and say its for a double lynch then nuke and nobody knows whether that dude was scum or not but caller gets cred. Thats just 1 example. Also, it doesnt even take Palmar out of the game and since Palmar's self-professed day 1 is his best, its arguably a waste of a nuke when palmar leaves his super sick list of scum. Caller had no idea what/how palmar would react to this. Geript not seeing this and masking this lynch as a policy lynch is really bad, especially with the dude with the most votes not being able to shoot so thats a totally better policy vote/lynch than caller who has already shot. Its a 'townie' reaction but its not actually a townie reaction, lynch that shit. On April 28 2014 01:11 Oatsmaster wrote: Oats didn't think Geript was policy lynching. Oats's REASON for voting Geript was that he was SAYING he was policy lynching while really just seeking a mislynch. man wtf yamato why are you derailing a lynch and not proposing anything else you useless bastard. For the record, I am totes fine with SnB lynch and I now think that geript is not scum because he dropped his policy lynch. Which he had arguably more reason to continue with ##unvote ##vote SnB Im going to sleep, kill scum guyys pls. The actual location of the vote was not the issue. The motives were. The motives don't change, Geript did a thing that Oats found super scummy. Geript moving his vote has NO impact on his motives, on what he did, blah blah. Moving a vote should NOT unscummify Geript. If there's ANYTHING to unscummify Geript, it's that Oats thinks mafia Geript would continue to push Caller, despite Oats thinking it's a terrible idea to push Caller ever this game. This is NOT a logical change in read. Geript was mafia because of motivations and faking a policy lynch. When Geript unvotes, it doesn't remove that stuff, therefore, the read should be the SAME, or at the very least, the no more push should be BALANCED/CONFLICTING with the faking of a lynch, not "now Geript insta-town." If Oats is being truthful about his reads, he shouldn't be changing his mind based purely on the location of Geript's vote. Therefore, Oats is not being truthful about his reads; he's just making 'em up. It's not just not talking about what I think he should have been talking about. It's not just not going after Palmar when he was anti-town on Palmar for reasons that aren't ever gone but apparently he just doesn't care about Palmar for the next billion hours. It's those things plus this bit about not thinking there's good reason for unvoting Geript and finding him town. I'm still interested in the folks who say this is oats being oats or looks like town oats. Have you been in games in which town oats changes his reads for reasons that don't appear to make sense, or seems to forget his scum reads, or is happy to do nearly nothing? Do you think those things are NOT happening here? Blazinghand, let's play doc save/marry/kill. prplhz odinofpergo JAT | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
No. Who cares if VA soft claims "not VT"? Palmar did that yesterday and you didn't ask someone to shoot him with anything real, nor did you try to push a lynch on him. 18,000 people have claimed or fakeclaimed vigi, and you didn't care much about that stuff. Yes. VA is either mafia or claiming a power role and maybe shouldn't be or is fakeclaiming and wants to get shot or whatever. Nobody cares. That's not AT ALL a reason to push someone for lynch. "He said he was blue." GREAT. Nobody cares. Even if you think that indicates he's mafia because blues shouldn't be outing themselves, that would make you inconsistent in your response to claims AND that means that your #1 ichiban scumread for today is a dude who said he was blue and MIGHT be mafia or you think MIGHT be playing oddly/poorly. If your #1 lynch is that, nobody in this game should be following you. Who is doing stuff that is SCUMMY? @WoS you wanted a task. There's a ... middle tier of people. Not the folks being discussed so far last night/today -----> BH, VE, prplhz maybe? Not the super vets, but they've been around longer than me, they can play, and they've posted. Could you look into them and give some general feelz, as well as anything super interesting in a townie/scummy way in any of those filters? Also, dear God please don't listen to Koshi's crap about NKs. Getting NKed doesn't mean your reads are right. Getting NKed doesn't mean your reads are right. Maybe one read in particular is good, maybe you're a consensus townie, maybe you're trying to derail a particular mislynch they want, maybe you took a shot, maybe getting NKed doesn't mean your reads are right. Plus there's the whole "If Geript's reads were ACTUALLY right, that means Koshi more likely to be scum, which means don't listen to him." Geript probably has some good thoughts. But getting NKed doesn't mean all your reads are right. Also there was already a task about looking at oats again or something, I gave it to you overnight. @poofter <3 I am generally in favor of using less KP, see all other posts. We dunno if we have coroners, how many, how many shots they have. I haven't played in no-flip games, and I think no-flips are pretty bad for town (especially when we don't know how many scum there are anyway, or KP formulas, so it's not even like we can ballpark it based on NKs). So I'm quite worried actually about no flips, towns seem to have a lot of trouble in games where they don't have a good handle on the setup and go into lategame unsure on scum numbers/mechanics, and the less no-flips we have, the better? Maybe? My preferred targets would be oats/koshi/foolishness, but I'd much much rather wait than shoot. I'm playing "You don't ever shoot" mafia, and then in favor of dropping anyone who actually DOES shoot. Mwahahahaha. The more people alive, the more work scum has to do, get more mislynches, keep going and going, keep worrying about cops and whatnot. A couple extra alive dudes and an extra day or two is town-favored imo, moreso than the chance of hitting mafia with a shot and not having them flip. THERE'S A BUNCH OF MUSHY REASONS BUT REALLY I JUST DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF SHOTS BUT I'M NOT CURRENTLY KING OF THIS GAME SO YMMV. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
More/different tasks if you really want. Read poofter's stuff on Koshi. Specifically, pushing snb, then getting gifted posts, and coming back late in the cycle to say snb was the lynch of justice, blah blah, without actually DOING anything, without talking about oats, without trying to get people to move to snb when the lynch could have gone either way (yet he thinks oats is town and snb is mafia), blah blah. Does poofter have the right of this? Does that feel like Koshi, as Koshi claims? Does it feel like Generic Yum Yum Good Play? Seriously though, Koshi's stuff on Geript's reads is bad bad. Koshi 100% knows snb's alignment. Koshi 100% knows Koshi's alignment. Koshi looks at geript's reads, goes "He was wrong about snb and wrong about myself, but he was probably right in all this other stuff." ALL THE EVIDENCE, IN KOSHI'S MIND, SAYS THAT GERIPT'S READS WERE INCORRECT. KOSHI IGNORES THAT 100% AND DECIDES THE REST OF GERIPT'S READS ARE JUST ALL GRAVY. Geript's reads are useful, we can talk about em, use em, but Koshi should be having his OWN reads more than using Geript's to push D2 crap. Shouldn't be 72 hours of "Here's what Koshi thinks" and then when Geript flips "Oh wait, here's what Geript thought, let's work off this." | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 30 2014 01:57 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah yeah, it's just this bugged me Austin I never once said I was going to take all of geript's reads at face value. I still believe they killed him for a reason. Also if you look Koshi recently went back and said what he wrote about geript's reads were dumb and bad...does that change what you think? Re: Oats...can't read the guy worth shit. Like ever. Koshi your point re:geript makes a lot of sense----only thing that recently struck me is that clarification as to geript's death could be a very sneaky question from scum to try and figure out the role use. I'm keeping that in my back pocket right now despite my townread of you. I read Koshi's post and went HOLY CRAP WHAT IS THIS. Because again, Koshi knows the alignments of Koshi and SnB out of that entire list, and if Koshi is town, Koshi knows that Geript was 0/2 on those. Koshi then assumes scum shot Geript because he was right, and sort of gloms onto whatever Koshi thinks Geript was thinking, despite...again...all the actual EVIDENCE koshi has pointing to Geript being 0/2 and a bad person to just sheep sheep. But you liked it, and also townread Koshi, when I'm finding Koshi a little bit scummy. Seriously interested in you looking at what Poofter said about Koshi's D1/late D1, and then your own thoughts on that stuff. You still townie on Koshi? As far as Koshi saying his post was "probably indeed complete shit", I don't care about it. I don't like that Koshi would EVER think that, and saying it was bad after getting called out on it doesn't win him any points. His push on snb is meh. His late D1 is meh. His start to today is super meh. His continued saying oats is "strange" and "lynchbait" says NOTHING, it's all hot air. Lynchbait OFTEN means "There are legitimate reasons to suspect this guy and lynch him, I agree, but I actually think he's town because of x, and is just the convenient mislynch. Instead of saying that, Koshi just CALLS him lynchbait twice now, without ANY real explanation of WHAT oats is doing this game and why it's scummy/townie/anything. Not to mention oats HAS had scummy/do-nothing D1s/early game. See Nuclear if nothing else, where he straight up couldn't come up with reasons to vote/have reads the way he did, I caught him there on him, called him on it, and proceeded to not lynch him and he survives for a billion years despite having poop reads and explanations just like here. Seriously. If a person looks scummy (Koshi), them saying "Oh yeah that crappy post I made was crappy" doesn't change my read at all. The reason it's crappy is because Koshi SHOULD be thinking critically and SHOULD be seeing that Geript is 0/2 in reads (if koshi town) and SHOULD NOT then be super concerned with Geript's reads and what Geript thought. Koshi should have HIS OWN reads. Realizing this after getting called on it is worth no town points. I really wish Oats was playing this game as lllllllllllllll. Both you and Koshi are making these general statements "I can't read him" and "Oats seems like lynchbait" without really backing them up. I know people can be hard to read, but is the STUFF that is happening SCUMMY or TOWNIE or NOTHING. Regardless of who is doing it. I'm interested in that, at the very least. I promise not to force you to lynch Oats or force you to medic save him or force you to do anything, but if he was lllllllllllll then what do you make of his actions? (Koshi that goes for you too and also I think you're off on how Oats plays mafia) | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
why is VA towards the tippy top of your scumlist? I know you posted on him, but the real meat of it is that VA is more engaged/cares, whereas you're not used to that. I've seen VA care in games. Is there more meat than just that? Talk to me about VA and why he should be on my scumlist please. VA caring doesn't vault him over other scummy people imo, but I'm pretty much always willing to find VA scummy and want to kill him  Also, talk to me about oats! You were kinda on board with oatsscum yesterday. You were worried about him not having a chance to defend himself. Lucky for oats/you (maybe), he DID get that chance. He's posted since I called him out. How do his posts make you feel, deep down inside? Why ain't HE at the tippy top of your scum lists? On April 30 2014 02:13 WaveofShadow wrote: My thoughts WERE that geript and sandroba were town Important posts: Austin, Caller, thoughts? My thoughts now are that Foolishness has a greater chance of being mafia than Palmar, and that I'm not overly worried about Palmar. Certainly not TODAY-worried about Palmar. Geript's bit on Palmar is nothing serious. Sandroba bit on Palmar reads like Sandroba fishing for something or doing something. The whole "Palmar targets prplhz because Foolishness posted a case on prplhz blah blah blah" stuff is all ... sillypants. I don't know exactly what he was trying to do there, but I don't read that at all seriously? Caller, I think VE is town for now. I will not be hop hop hopping anywhere, nor will I be hop hop hopping on anything. To thread - + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/owZDQki.jpg?1) YEAH BUT WHY DO YOU THINK THAT? He was not only kinda scummy on Foolishness early, but also concerned that BH found Foolishness lovely jubbly, and called BH out on that. IF Foolishness is mafia, I think that combo makes VE unlikely to also be mafia. I also think his conversation with Ace overnight reads very town? It reads like VE is interested in what Ace is saying, doesn't agree, then sees what Ace is saying and thinks he might be right. There's just a natural progression of thought and in a townie way. VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, If caller is scum and had a fakenuke, don't you think he would have...been more dickish with it? Spammed a little, caused a little more havoc, SOMETHING? There was next-to-no enjoyment of the moment. Also, why is plammar today's lynch over Foolishness or over Oats, who btw is still mafia? I know you were townie on Palmar and then said Ace convinced you otherwise, but how'd he convince you so hard that Palmar should be the lynch for today? ALSO QUESTION --------> DOES THE MANNER IN WHICH PALMAR POSTED HIS "HOLD THE TOWN HOSTAGE" CRAP READ LIKE TOWN/SCUM PALMAR TO YOU? I'm honestly interested in this, can you sort of....look at that both ways. Why each alignment Palmar posts that, what he's thinking, which one really fits? Also also, what did you make of Poofter's post and why is Oats super duper mega mafia? Slam, you were willing to vote oats, but never really said anything else about it. Is oats scummy/scum? Why? | ||
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United States6737 Posts
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This bit I'm not really sure what this says about Oatsmaster (if anything) given that he was second in line to be lynched. What I do know is that mafia were very content with how things played out yesterday and did not fear one of their own getting killed. This means that the vast majority (if not all) of the mafia team were sitting back and sheeping along, because why would you put yourself out there to get townie's lynched when you can just let the town do it for you? also doesn't quite jive with this bit Oastmaster [sic]You don't have to draw conclusions, you can be not really sure, but ... a red oats means mafia probably was NOT content with how things played out yesterday. Talk to me about oats and why he's mafia for doing scummy stuff and not for doing things that 2/3 the game is doing. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
##vote: Oatsmaster Still my preferred lynch of the day, unless he's getting shot. Also, I THINK I'd rather have a shot on oats over koshi? If both are scummy, and both have decided to do little/nothing today, I think oats gives us SLIGHTLY more info? Plus, you know, I want him to be mafia this game. HEY EVERYBODY. EVERYONE SHOULD SAY WHAT YAMATO'S ALIGNMENT WAS. CORONER GETS A SINGLE CHECK EACH NIGHT, BUT THE RESULTS ONLY COME TO HIM. EVERYONE SAYS EACH DAY WHAT ALIGNMENT SOME NON-FLIPPED PERSON WAS. IF A CORONER DIES, THEN ... TA DA! WE JUST FOUND OUT THEIR RESULTS. THERE'S A NON-ZERO CHANCE THAT A CORONER OR MULTIPLE CORONERS GET KILLED BEFORE THEY CAN GIVE THEIR RESULTS OUT, AND MAYBE THEY DIDN'T CRUMB OR DIDN'T CRUMB IN A WAY WE FOUND. IF EVERYONE, EVERY DAY, SAYS THE ALIGNMENT OF A NO-FLIPPED PLAYER (ASSUMING WE HAVE ONE), THEN THE CORONER IS COVERED. ALSO IF YOU WANT YOU CAN TOTALLY SAY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOUR RESULT CAME BACK, AND USE THE WORD "FAKE" 3 TIMES DURING THE DAY AND NIGHT AFTER YOU GET A CHECK. THAT WAY MAFIA HAS TO DO A BUNCH OF LEGWORK IF THEY WANT TO TRY AND CATCH A CORONER BECAUSE ONLY ONE PERSON HAS CORRECT ALIGNMENTS EACH TIME. SUCK IT SCUM, ENJOY YOUR HOMEWORK. (OTHER PEOPLE SHOULD FAKE USE "FAKE" FOR BONUS MAFIAWORK. YESYES) ON ANY FUTURE DAYS WE HAVE NO-FLIPPED PLAYERS, EVERYONE SHOULD DO THIS FOR THOSE PEOPLE TOO YOU'RE WELCOME, CORONER(S), ASSUMING YOU'RE NOT ME. YOU'RE WELCOME ME IF I'M THE CORONER. YAYAYAYA. (I think Yamato was town. Also, any uses of the word fake in this post don't count towards my 3 for the day) Gumshoe, HEY GUMSHOE. HEY GUMSHOE. Have you played with Caller before? Poofter, I haven't looked back at any other RoL games, but for now I'm fine with him, mildly mildly townie? He gave away a boatload of posts yesterday, and not for entirely useless reasons. His response to Foolishness is alright by me. I THINK I disagree with Foolishness saying it's scummy for him to do a stupid sheep vote ---> later reading SnB and finding SnB scummy. If he wants off of SnB, he can move ezpz. If he wants to stay on SnB, he doesn't have to do anything. He drops a stupid vote early, and just goes "lol stupid vote." For now, he's nowhere NEAR the top of my list, and I think he's on the town side for me? On April 30 2014 08:45 Foolishness wrote: Yup. That was me on D1. And N1. And today. Ta da!You misunderstand. That paragraph means I don't know if that in itself says anything about Oats. I read that particularly thing as neutral. If you think that if Oats was mafia then more drama would have happened yesterday I can respect that. Also weren't you the one saying Oats was mafia post after post? In terms of "if you think that if Oats was mafia then more drama would have happened", you have Oats in red in your list. That indicates, to me, that YOU think oats is scummy/mafia. Like...is the "if you think" in that bolded relevant to "If you think oats is mafia" or is it Oats is mafia and "if you think more drama would have happened" i can respect that? | ||
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United States6737 Posts
On April 30 2014 12:07 Tehpoofter wrote: More info, but right now seems less likely. I need to do more wranglin'@Austin Wouldn't a lynch on Oats garner more info? Like knowing his alignment makes the vote assessment from day 1 really interesting. A shot only flips the results if a Coroner outs or is killed. So having him die by a shot doesn't give us that info for me a flip of Oats gives town solid info either way vote train analysis becomes much better Imo when the alignment of both big trains is known. So I disagree with you sir. Although this Coroner thing is hella townie... I honestly didn't read Yamato too closely because by the time I knew the game was going on Day 1 had ended and I saw the front page with him getting shot (SPOILERS) I'll read his filter and give a real or fake read on him later. @RoL You planning on hunting any scum today? It seems your posts have just been like 1-2 liners of defending yourself lightly and badly in my opinion. I have no clue who you think is mafia/town care to enlighten me/the rest of town? You're kinda not doing much tbh. Granted you're not the only one that this falls under today who else would you like to hear more from? Me personally Caller/Ceph/Ace/Gum/Odin/Prplhz I'd all want to hear a bit more from. Ocho! As of yet, oats appears to either be scummy or oats-y to everyone. And he's done jack all N1/D2, which should be pushing needles towards scummy. But that's basically it, if people don't start voting oats, then he's not going to get lynched. Since dayvigs can fire at any point, it's really a nonissue. If oats is the lynch, he's not the shot. If he's not the lynch, I personally think he's a good shot. Learning how coroner works this game makes me SLIGHTLY more okay with shots, but honestly I still don't like them overall. If you're going to shoot though, then I think koshi/oats is fine, would just prefer oats if not lynched. | ||
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On April 30 2014 12:16 Caller wrote: It somewhat whittles down, but not tons. People who aren't coroners should just split on each side of things. If we whittle down possible coroners by like...D5, then oh well who cares the coroner is probably dead/claimed by then. Unless you think mafia is going to get a great snipe BECAUSE of doing this within like...one day, then it's not a minus. why the fuck are we playing hypocoroner? all this does is cause mafia to whittle down the amount of coroner possibilities if anything coroner should claim, as there's an unknown amount of protection roles that can be stacked upon them. Caller, have you played with gumshoe before/has he played in one of your games? Not the most important thing, but I'm interested. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
---(1)--- Basically, between N1 and D2, he said he was going to lay low. His scumreads were Palmar/SnB/geript/VE/Foolishness at the end of D1. (see spoiler below, first post) After that, what...98% of his today is just him saying he's town. I'm town; don't shoot. Don't shoot; I'm town. I'm shoot; don't town; poofter is mafia. Whether he's ACTIVE or not, I think he's had 1-2 legit posts during N2/D2, where he flips his read on Palmar. ---(2)--- I don't find his reads to make much sense recently. And seeing how the main read he had on D1 was that SnB was scum, that means I'm looking at someone I think pushed a bad lynch D1 ----> has weird reasoning for reads N1/D2. That's not a plus imo. Coming into today he wants to kill Foolishness/Palmar, with the primary reason apparently being "Sandroba said so." Then he wants Cephiro/Palmar/Foolishness shot, because ... Sandroba said so. And heck, he notes that Palmar is suspicious of Foolishness and Cephiro, so in his mind, Palmar is bussing like half his scumteam or something --- + Show Spoiler + On April 29 2014 05:36 Koshi wrote: I changed my read on SnB. I am easily impressed. Sandroba already impressed me. Sandroba The Siren. What were my reads? Palmar, SnB, geript & VE? Now we can add Foolishness. On April 29 2014 16:53 Koshi wrote: ##vote Foolishness Because I am not impressed. Also Sandroba is ded. imo people should shoot Foolishness. Also Palmar. PEOPLE PLS SHOOT FOOLISHNESS AND PALMAR. Thank you. On April 29 2014 17:53 Koshi wrote: geript got shot. Things we learn from his filter: 1) Oats is town 2) Alakaslam is town 3) Cephiro needs to be shot really badly. geript was on Cephiro ass. 4) Foolishness is weird and needs to be shot. 5) Plammer is playing Dota and needs to be shot. 6) RoL useless should be shot. 7) 8) SnB was wrong about the last 2 but still got shot. This means he got a pretty decent % right on the other 6. I have read his entire filter twice now and I don't think I missed another big read of his. He had Sandroba as town, so that's something he was right about, but it is not something he would get shot over knowing that Sandroba got shot as well. So please reread geript his filter as well and please let me know if I missed something. I am pretty sure I didn't. There is something minor on prplhz but nothing too big. His early filter was about Policy lynch Caller and Koshi. So let me add something about this Koshi guy. This Koshi guy is totally not harmful. Almost every time it gets very obvious the longer the game progresses that this Koshi guy only wants the best for town. So I would say please leave the Koshi guy alone and not shoot him. Really. No kidding here. No bullets towards Koshi. So imo the vigis should really shoot Cephiro, Palmar, Foolishness. Just all 3. Shoot them. I see Palmar even agrees on Foolishness and Cephiro. Bonus thing - While pushing "Follow sandro!" and "Follow geript!" because their reads must have been so doggone right, he half-fails to notice that both of them, as far as I can tell, found Koshi scummy On April 28 2014 09:32 sandroba wrote: So far I got as possible scum foolishness oats slam and possibly koshi and bh. I'm fair game to kill any of these today. No quote for geript, it's in the spoiler above He says Geript is wrong, but basically he was pushing (last night and then today) to sheep the reads of..................two guys who have him as mafia. He doesn't question them, doesn't seem to think they're wrong/unreliable. Then he decides Palmar is town for posting about Cephiro's "recruit me! recruit me!" stuff. On April 29 2014 21:19 Koshi wrote: Boom. Palmar, his #1 D1 lynch, a good target during the night, a guy that Sandroba said was mafia and boy howdy we should all just sheep Sandroba.......well, that guy is town now just for the traitor thing (I'm cool with this, however, it's not that weird to me for someone to take a single post and flip a read based on it).This somewhat indicates that Cephiro knows there is a traitor while he didn't read the OP. So yeah, this might have been a slip. Foolishness/Cephiro pls shoot both. They are confirmed mafia or without doubt will never get nk. Maybe Foolishness will get NK if he is town and starts playing. SOoooooo if the first vigi could please SHOOT CEPHIRO. Thank you. Palmar is off the scumlist atm. ---(3)--- He's super pissed at Poofter for talking about shooting him. On April 30 2014 20:34 Koshi wrote: But remember, Poofter is scummy on Foolishness. They have a read in common, both Poofter AND Koshi think Foolishness is scum. And koshi is pissed that poofter won't shoot Oats (who koshi seems to think received an oats-colored PM), but ISN'T pushing Poofter to shoot Foolishness, their shared scumread. Koshi is basically calling Poofter dumb/mafia for shooting Koshi over Oats, when he doesn't think Oats is particularly scummy. He SHOULD be calling Poofter dumb/mafia for shooting Koshi over Foolishness, who they BOTH have is mafia.What is your case actually? I didn't really push the SnB lynch? I just pushed it to prevent Oats being lynched? That's not even the right timeline. I started on SnB WAYYYY before Oats got any action and I didn't go to Oats because I indeed don't really see why Oats is scum. Even though he could be. I just found his play lackluster but not scummy. WHICH I CLEARLY STATED IN THE THREAD. Why am I getting fucking shot for stating my opinion on people their alignment?????? BEcause you think Oats is scum and you are drawing connections to me and fucking Oats? AND OATS IS NOT PLAYING THE GAME BUT YOU WANT TO FUCKING SHOOT ME OVER OATS???? REALLY??????????????????? ARE YOU FUCKING BAD AT THIS GAME????????? IS THAT IT?????? I see some activity. But for people who don't want to shoot someone active/contributing/synonyms, can you please pick out like...the 2 best contributions Koshi has made N1/D2? What are the two smartest things he's said? Where does he have insight that you hadn't thought about? Is he actually contributing to helping you find mafia, or is he just posting? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
FACT: We nearly no lynched yesterday, due both to lack of candidates AND time zones causing us trouble late. FACT: Our current votes look like this: On April 30 2014 12:09 Hapahauli wrote: Vote Count: Foolishness (4) - Koshi, prplhz, justanothertowie, Palmar Palmar (2) - Ace, VisceraEyes VayneAuthority (0) - Gumshoe (1) - Blazinghand Blazinghand (1) - WaveofShadow Visceraeyes (1) - Caller, Oatsmaster (2) - Gumshoe, austinmcc RebirthOfLegend (2) - Foolishness, tehpoofter OdinOfPergo (1) - Alakaslam Day ends in . There are 19 players alive, and it takes 10 to lynch. FACT: Nobody has even 1/2 a majority. FACT: There are mafia in this game and they don't want us to lynch mafia. OPINION: We should start consolidating. Specifically
A rough list of
I PERSONALLY still want to lynch Oats. I'm still suspicious of Foolishness, but between letting someone who is posting sometimes in thread and apparently posting in a QT live, vs. letting someone live who actually is just doing nothing, I'd much rather keep the Foolishness alive than the Oats. Sorry Oats. I PERSONALLY don't want to lynch RoL. I gave some reasons when asked (maybe by JAT?), but also the push on him from Foolishness makes me shy away even more. Foolishness's cases have not resonated with me this game like they have in recent ones. ANYWAY. SEEING AS WE HAVE PEOPLE ALL OVER THE GLOBE AND WE HAD TROUBLE GETTING MAJORITY ON D1 AND WE'RE HAVING LOTS OF TROUBLE GETTING MAJORITY ON D2, WE REALLY NEED TO START CONSOLIDATING. DOES ANYONE THINK THAT THE ABOVE LIST OF OPTIONS IS PARTICULARLY BAD? NONE OF THOSE 4 ARE MAFIA? THERE'S SOMEONE WHO SHOULD BE ON THAT LIST ABOVE A BUNCH OF OTHERS, AND THAT SOMEONE HAS GOTTEN SCUMREAD BY MULTIPLE FOLKS, MAKING THEM A REALISTIC LYNCH CANDIDATE? CUZ OTHERWISE, WE'RE DOWN TO LIKE 1/4 CYCLE AND EVEN IF WE'RE ON THE RIGHT TRAILS WE'RE NOT DOING WELL WITH OUR VOTING. | ||
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On April 30 2014 06:55 austinmcc wrote: Slam, you were willing to vote oats, but never really said anything else about it. Is oats scummy/scum? Why? I read your filter. I donated you posts yesterday so you could explain yoseff a little more. I see your OOP scumread, and I don't share your thoughts because while you say he's getting outside info or something, it reads to me like he's just flailing around and making stuff up ---> Ace shot people, etc. etc. If someone outside the thread is telling him that things happened when they didn't...well then the scumteam is already going down in flames. Are you willing to consolidate? Our of the 4 dudes above, anyone in PARTICULAR you want to lynch/don't want to lynch? p.s. seriously, you know I'm interested in oats. Plox to answer question? | ||
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On May 01 2014 02:34 Alakaslam wrote: How many times have I called you scum this game or put you on any kind of list I've made for shooting yamato?I havebeen kusplaining why it b really pretty hard to be arsed for this, it is often like if I put out an opinion folks will actually use that as an auxiliary to why someone who agrees should be lynched. So in reply town gets " o well  then "And even then I post a huge dblue bold caps saying LOOK GUYS THIS IS WHY I IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT OF ME?And I hear " , Besides lynch foolishness no don't lynch foolishness wait what? !" So I "ok but I don't quit"You shot yamato. That happened, it's over. I'm trying to move things forward here. You need to move things forward as well, imo, because people are more likely to find you townie for ... finding neat stuff, lynching scum, etc, than for talking about shooting yamato. You can me or anyone else or everyone else or any chickens of any level of intoxication you'd like, but we had kind of a poopy end of D1, and we're on track for a poopy end of D2, and we gotta stop that.On May 01 2014 02:29 justanothertownie wrote: I continue to be a fan of less/no shots. I'm gonna try to pull the lynch around, but it doesn't seem I can pull people to not shoot and just let lynches do work. AUSTIN! Let's make a deal. I shoot oats dead and you lynch Foolishness with me. DEAL? Now I will really shut up for a while. I am already running out of posts again... If you're shooting someone who is a major lynch candidate, you probably should go ahead and do it, because ... we need to CONSOLIDATE and not be split and then have one guy with votes get shot late in a day when euros are asleep. I don't think you SHOULD shoot (if you actually can), but oh well. But you should make shots on your choice of guy. I'm trying to do a little leading here, but not full-on assign everyone actions, because I still want to see what everyone does when not assigned crap, and I don't have pull yet to do full-on assigning. So...I dunno. Mainly I just want to avoid no-flips. Having none or max of 1 a day lets us do that. I think the value of avoiding no-flips is pretty high for town, and it's high enough that it outweighs possibly shooting mafiosos? THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE A TERRIBLY WRITTEN RESPONSE, UNSURE | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Koshi remains kind of poopy for me. On April 28 2014 07:02 Koshi wrote: Oats is lynchbaitWhy isn't Oats lynchbait? Small filter. AFK till lynch. On April 28 2014 07:03 Koshi wrote: I read Oats filter after reading austin case and I don't see the connection. The case is larger than his filter. case is meh On April 28 2014 07:07 Koshi wrote: Scum oats HAS BIG FILTERSOats even has way bigger filters than this as mafia. He is a fucking hard catch normally. Look at all the games. He always is like last mafia standing. On April 29 2014 17:53 Koshi wrote: Geript <3 oatsgeript got shot. Things we learn from his filter: 1) Oats is town On April 29 2014 21:43 Koshi wrote: OATS NO LONGER TOWN BECAUSE ______________. (If you're following along at home, you'll realize that Koshi thinks Oats is town because of filter and meta. The fact that Geript MIGHT have been shot by mafia, and that shot MIGHT be because of his oats read being correct should NOT cause Koshi to change his mind. Especially when Koshi continues to say Oats is lynchbait and plays differently as mafia.)amagad I just got confirmation geript might have been shot protecting somebody. So the whole read thing might be wrong. Grrr. Ok I retract my townreads on Oats and on Alakaslam. FOOLISHNESS AND CEPHIRO STILL MAFIA Also probably JAT. On April 29 2014 23:33 Koshi wrote: Oats is "strange". Oats is "lynchbait". Oats is playing differently than he did in his scumgames, his D1 was not his scum game.[CUT] Oats looks just strange. He looks like giant lynchbait and he doesn't look like that normally. Look at his scumgame in PYP, look at his scumgame in Catastrophe, he isn't this meh D1 as scum. Because we can't be sure that geript was shot by mafia, I can't make these conclusions anymore. On May 01 2014 02:47 Koshi wrote: Oats is a good shot. That's actually really good play. Oats is a good shot. We all know Oats can play decent but he refuses to do so. If he is town he can get fucked. If he is scum yay for that shot. Koshi thinks Oats is town guys. He says mafia Oats has bigger filters, this Oats has almost no filter. He says mafia Oats played differently in PYP and Catastrophe, indicating that this is not Oats's scumplay. He says oats is lynchbait, meaning not a good lynch, which also should mean not a good shot. Seriously. For all of Koshi's posting, it's all air for the last 60ish hours or something. | ||
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United States6737 Posts
On May 01 2014 03:02 justanothertownie wrote: See, this is fine by me.Ok, at this point I have to realize that I will absolutely need post donations today again. Prplhz? Anyone?  Yeah, noflip sucks. But I will definitely shoot today now that I claimed. If I don't scum just shoots me tonight and I don't get my shot. Or they don't and push me day3 for not dieing. No thanks. I get that you want to see who I would decide to shoot on my own but if you aren't scumreading me please tell me who you would like to die. You are one of my townreads and I want advice before shooting. Everyone else may give suggestions too. I could also ego trip and just shoot one of my top scumreads like BH, Foolishness or Vayne but I would rather see them flip tbh. (especially Foolishness). Shooting a lurking question mark may be better. I don't know. Need input. If you don't shoot and scum shoots you and you're town, you flip town. You die, and not someone who is a medic/coroner/cop. People look at your reads, see they're from town, don't 100% sheep them, but it's GOOD. If you don't get shot, and you're worried about a world in which you're alive 1 day from now (along with at least one other claimed vigi possibly), then what in the heck makes you think THAT is enough for you to be seriously pushed over options like Foolishness/Oats/Everybody? I cannot believe I'm ever actually typing this, but you're overly worried about role. Vigi isn't NEARLY as threatening to scum as docs, cops, coroners. Dying is FINE, scum wants you to die if you're town, it might happen. Playing townie and all that good jazz is way way way more important than shooting someone. My top bro would be oats. Koshi is maybe right under him? Foolishness right there with Koshi, but again, MAYBE this QT thing is helpful, and if nothing else he doesn't magically live for days and days. He's a problem we can easily solve in the future. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 01 2014 05:16 Foolishness wrote: I'm having trouble understanding this world where 3 active town members on day 1 (plus one confirmed town who died at night) who each posted their own cases about why strongandbig should be lynched are mafia and not say the ~8 people who have yet to post a case, contribute to the town or post their own thoughts. I'm also having trouble believing that it's in the best interest to the town to kill the people who are posting cases and contributing and just letting those ~8 people get away with doing nothing. So I would be honored if someone can explain to me why the people who sat around on day 1 are all likely town. And ya know, you can do this by responding to the cases already made or by posting your own. On May 01 2014 05:23 Foolishness wrote: Whether Foolishness is mafia or not, this is an entirely legit statement.Really I'm just baffled by this all. Is the logic as follows? "oh, 75% of the players in the game are just writing sheep posts and not posting their own thoughts. Meanwhile 25% of the players are posting reads/cases, trying to steer town in the right direction, and analyze what the mafia has been doing this whole game. Well, I know that there are more town than mafia in the game because that's how the game of mafia is set up. That must mean all the town players are doing the same thing and are in the 75%, and it must be the mafia who are the 25%." I'm legit trying to figure out the mindset behind this. Cause hot damn so many people are on board with this I'm questioning my own stupidity. I cannot think of a case where mafia has just straight up hard-pushed a single target, all together, early on in the day. Maybe this will be the shining example of that, but that is GENERALLY not a go-to strategy. HEY FOOLISHNESS COME ON LET'S TALK. YOU'RE CEPHIRO AND YOU PROMISE SOMETHING BUT YOU DON'T DELIVER. THEN YOU DELIVER THAT POST. YOU'RE PROBABLY OF WHAT ALIGNMENT? I GUESS ALSO JUST GENERAL QUESTION. YOU'VE GOT REBIRTH, PALMAR, WOS, OATS AS MAFIA IN YOUR LAST LISTY POST. THAT'D MEAN THAT YOU'RE ALMOST REVERSE-CEPHIRO-Y? LIKE MOST OF YOUR MAFIA IS ON SNB, BUT THEY'RE ALMOST ALL STRAGGLERS. YOU'RE COOL WITH THE IDEA THAT HALF OR SO OF THE MAFIA TEAM, IN WHAT MAY HAVE BEEN A TOWN V. SCUM LYNCH, JUST...SHEEPS THEIR WAY ONTO SNB? IF I WERE MAFIA I WOULD HAVE BEEN FLIPPING OUT IN QT SAYING THAT WE COULDN'T HAVE A BUNCH OF PEOPLE LIMP ONTO SNB, I'D PUSH FOR A NO LYNCH OR TO THROW MORE VOTES ON SLAM TO TRY AND DRIVE EXTRA CANDIDATES (IF SLAM TOWN). BUT YOUR TEAM BASICALLY LIMPS ONTO A TOWN LYNCH IN A TOWN V SCUM SCENARIO IF OATS IS MAFIA AND THAT'S ... NOT SITTING WELL WITH ME. I LIKE CAPS. On May 01 2014 05:31 WaveofShadow wrote: Hey hey, if you WOULD lynch one of those people, then the key thing to do is to type it out with a vote in front of it, so that you actually ARE lynching one of those people.Foolishness can I ask how I fit in to all this exactly? Am I 25 or 75? And I am pretty curious as to how Bh's gumshoe lynch fits into your mason QT exactly. Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if RoL and Oats are town in this game----for me to be as apathetic as I've been to think that people who normally lurk (like RoL) are similar isn't a stretch. Except of course that apparently this kind of game is the ideal for RoL who hates spam. And I dunno oats is just oats. I'm still pretty damn certain this game is just over, hence the apathy. So much idgaf in this game from me and mostly everyone else, it sucks for the people who are fighting against a brick wall. Like Austin. Also cephiro only pops up with large vomit posts when people remember he's around. Curious coincidence. I'd lynch RoL or ceph or oats today I guess considering I don't have anything useful to add. The BH-foolishness thing seems legit and kinda difficult for even someone like BH to come up with if they were both scum. Everyone is standing around. Or ... sitting at computers. If you WOULD vote someone who is a legitimate lynch option, DO vote them. If you SEE something, SAY something. Also this game is fine. It's apathetic, but oh well, it'll pick up the moment we lynch some scum or get claims or whatever. We've mislynched a whopping 1 time. That's it. Geript MIGHT have saved someone from a shot last night. We're fine. We post sirens, we lynch some scum, we win the game, ezpz. The above is part at oats, part at everyone who says they'd be willing to lynch x, y, or z. You signed up to play mafia, the game where you lynch people you think are scummy. You lynch them by VOTING them. The OP even tells you how. On April 15 2014 04:45 Ver wrote: Voting rules: 1. Voting is done in this thread . 2. This game uses Extended Majority Lynch (Must have majority by end of deadline, ex. if 3) Use ##Vote: Player or your vote will not be counted. I promise you that if you follow those directions, you can actually stick your vote on someone. There is NO downside. The game is about lynching mafia, with your votes. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 01 2014 07:07 Palmar wrote: What has Koshi done with his activity in the last almost 72 hours? why on earth would you shoot an active player like that you moron. Like...2 ideas that he's actually pushed, or a read that he made out of the blue, or a new perspective on anything. On May 01 2014 07:22 justanothertownie wrote: BECAUSE THE GAME GOING LONG IS BAD FOR SCUM. MORE DAYS IF THEY HAVEN'T KILLED DOCS/COPS MEANS TOWN GETS EXTRA USES FROM POWER ROLES.Ok, so does anyone have a reason why I should not shoot the crap out of Poofter right now? Also grats to Palmar and WoS who complained heavily AFTER THE SHOT but said nothing (afaik) before when poofter announced he would do that. That's what I have been saying all day, lol. Those are literally exactly my reads. You town after all? Someone give me 1-2 Posts please (to votechange - although that won't happen - or shoot) I have none left. I know I have been wasteful, sorry MORE DAYS MEANS MORE MISLYNCHES THEY NEED TO GET. MORE DAYS MEANS LESS HIDING PLACES, MORE CHANCES FOR THEM TO GET CAUGHT/OTHER PEOPLE TO BE CONFIRMED TOWN. MORE DAYS IS GOOD. MORE PEOPLE ALIVE IS GOOD. SHOOTING PEOPLE MEANS LESS PEOPLE ALIVE. There's also the fact that coroner gets a check a night, and so maxing out at a single unflipped person per day is somewhat better for us than multiple folks unflipped. I went back to look at some past oats games, but didn't get super far because I'm not quite sure what exactly I'm looking for or how to show it, and I haven't played/read every oats game. Basically, this one seems similar to Nuclear Winter to me. I thought Oats's reads were wrong, called him on it, he kind of halfway shrugged it off with answers I didn't like, and I ended up being CERTAIN he was scum. Then just...doing nothing with it. And there was no traction elsewhere to push him. + Show Spoiler + On July 10 2013 23:46 austinmcc wrote: Oats, I'm...kind of interested in where you slot your reads within a specific group. In this post I half-mentioned rayn's plan, and I posted my suspicions about FirmTofu, specifically those two posts that I found scummy. Very next post is you: Which implies that you kind of like my thoughts, and find FirmTofu scummy. At best, you say nothing about me, but are worried about the FirmTofu posts I was worried about, and are scummy on FT. But zen we come to zees post: You wake up, and are now scummy enough on me to vote, despite never actually mentioning me before. rayn's reads must be very, very convincing. Do you actually agree with his reasoning? Por que? You also question FirmTofu about jampidampi, and then later about me: + Show Spoiler + On July 10 2013 09:24 Oatsmaster wrote: Hmm. Thoughts on Austin Firmtofu? I find all this curious, because before sleeping you were scummy on FirmTofu, and didn't indicate any read on me (yes, I know the rayn post and me not following up on your power usage occurred after my post on FirmTofu, but it's odd for your read to spring up overnight). When FirmTofu gives youa read on jampi, you answer with: Here's mah problem with all that. You found FirmTofu scummy. Then you asked him about jampidampi and myself. I don't know if you noticed my own jampidampi thoughts or not, but he's one of the folks I actually think came out looking bad from rayn's shennanies. You may disagree with FT's jampi post directly, think there's too much speculation, but you don't ACTUALLY seem interested in jampidampi because (1) you never give your own thoughts directly and (2) you seem to ignore every other post on jampidampi, and there had recently been a couple. You're focused only on FT's post. So plox to enlighten us with what you actually think about myself, FirmTofu, jampidampi, and heck, throw in VA while you're at it, because he's kind of connected in the reads that myself and FirmTofu have given. It's not damning, but your hopping around here looks scummy to me, because it doesn't seem like you've got real reads and you're just floating around. On July 11 2013 00:31 Oatsmaster wrote: Ace is doing jack shit and it worries me. Austin, I woke up, caught up, decided that Firmtofu wasnt actually scummy for the fake nuke thing, its just speculation. And that therefore, with 2 bullshit cases, and the random advice for not much reason, I think you are scum. Im waiting for jampis response to case by FT. I havent read VA that much if at all On July 11 2013 00:53 austinmcc wrote: Oats...what are you doing. You call out Ace for doing jack shit, but I haven't really seen you do anything other than stop a nuke D1. You say this:But I had suspicions of FirmTofu because of his posts around the D1 lynch. Had nothing to do with the fake nuke thing, and when you found him scummy there was nothing about FirmTofu and the fake nuke thing. If you think my cases are bullshit, then you didn't follow the D1 lynch and you're not following the timing of the game at all. If you think I'm giving random advice, rather than advice that limits mafia's options and trying to set up a plan for how town is going to approach nukes/nuking this game, you are a sillybilly. And this: is even more sillybilly-esque. Nobody KEPT DI from playing the game, he chose not to. He chose to do nothing that would affect the game, despite checking in from time to time. That's a conscious decision, and it says something about his alignment. The fact that you cast it aside and don't see it as AT ALL telling on his alignment, despite having played with him, despite him almost getting lynched, and despite all the posts that people having dug up on how scum DI plays/thinks...well, that doesn't look good for you. You're either mafia or you're choosing not to actually read and participate in this game, skating by on having saved someone from a nuke. On July 11 2013 01:00 Oatsmaster wrote: Dude. Advice given so far has been useless. Your post on FirmTofu was about the claim not the fake nuke, my apologies but my point still stands. D1 you lynched town, it looks like you want to lynch another townread of mine again. Now is austin bad? No. So therefore you are scum. I firmly believe that dandel would play to win unless he really couldnt so I dont feel that its alignment indicative. On July 11 2013 01:06 austinmcc wrote: So far, yeah, it's been useless. Do you think it's not a good idea for people who can't keep up with the thread to try and participate? Do you think that it's a good idea for town to exert majority control over nukes, using them as extra lynches? D1 I lynched town, yup. The plurality did too, I heard it wasn't just me. (1) Holy balls I have lynched plenty of townies. I think in my last town game I mainly wanted to lynch town iamp. I think in one of my more recent towngames I basically ONLY wanted to lynch townies, whatever that one was that we both played in and I just argued with marv. (2) Moreover, if you think DI is town, then you think that with the lynch looking like it was going to be on DI D1, I posted that ON case and voted ON and caused a stir just to lynch a different townie. That's fine, that's solid play in my mind, but if I needed to look active/townie, there might have been better ways to get active than writing that case and getting a townie lynched. (3) If you think DI's absence is NOT alignment indicative, then how do you have a townread on him? On July 11 2013 01:08 austinmcc wrote: I think that if I'm your top scumread, you're mafia or really just being lazy. None of what you're saying really makes sense. And whether or not my plans/advice is "useless" doesn't indicate whether you think it's actually good or bad advice, advice that, if followed, would favor town or mafia. If I'm gonna give useless advice, I can make up useless advice all day. But if the advice is town-favored, maybe that's important, whether other people are taking it or not. However, if you'll note, ain't nobody fired off no nukes yet today. Maybe my advice is useless, maybe it's not. On July 11 2013 01:10 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont have dandel as a townread, where the fuck do you get that? Austin, maybe scum aint got a nuke so your advice doesnt affect your team. Can you explain how Im scum if I think you are scum? OMGUS much? On July 11 2013 01:17 austinmcc wrote: I want to lynch DI --> xigxag. Assumed this was referring to him. If scum doesn't have nukes, THEN WHY DOES MZ HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO SHUT DOWN NUKE FACTORIES? You think that MZ, as town, can shut down nuke factories, but only town has the ability to produce nukes? The fact that a town role does that means anti-town forces have that. Scum not having nukes in this game would be like nobody having alignments in a DT game, or there being no KP in a game with medics. The role wouldn't exist in a regular game unless it could be used in a way that benefits town. Again, you're not reading the game closely enough. I don't care if you think i'm scummy. I think that if I'm your TOP scumread, you're either really not paying attention or you're scum. It's not pure OMGUS, it's more...you are asking people for a lot of reads, and giving out very very little content that you yourself generate, whole cloth. You pop me out as your top scumread just because you like rayn's reads, which you never actually discuss before magically arriving at me as top scumread. You don't seem to care that there is a legitimate argument that rayn's reads were constructed in a wonky manner, made by multiple people. On July 11 2013 01:19 Oatsmaster wrote: Here's the main chunk of Oats/me talking in Nuclear. I was town; he was mafia. Oats was pretty active on D1, but his votes/reads didn't look right to me, and I called him out on it.I dunno dude, there have been millers with no cops. Speculation is bad. What is the legitimate argument that rayns reads are bad? His response, almost like this, is to just sort of try to ... shrug off the pressure. Besides calling me mafia, which hasn't really happened the same way here, he NEVER really responds to the meat of my arguments --> he doesn't really want to chat about DI or his reads or how they progress, just how I'm mafia, or speculation is bad, or just shrug off that he didn't really have the reads I think he has. THIS WAS MY CONCLUSION AT ONE POINT THERE You're either mafia or you're choosing not to actually read and participate in this game, skating by on having saved someone from a nuke AND TA DA! Oats has chosen not to read and participate in this game. In a SIMILAR vein to that game, Oats's reads don't line up for me. Palmar is super mega anti-town, but then utterly GONE once snb comes up. Nothing on Palmar today. No voting for Palmar, troll-voting for Palmar, anything. Just say he's anti-town early, do NOTHING with it, swap reads in ways I don't think make sense, etc. I may be overdrawing parallels, but the time games are very very similar in my mind, and this is why I'm pushing him so hard. I forgot about Oats in that game, despite KNOWING he was mafia off that bit. We all let him skate. Nobody hopped on board. And mafia mostly-cruised to a win. Boo. I remembered him being MORE posty and responsive, and still scumhunting, during Thug Life once he started getting serious accusations of being mafia. But that game was long, and there aren't a lot of quotes in his filter to show where people started getting super scummy on him, just I remember that happening and defending him there. Whatever. I don't think he's town. NOBODY seems to think he's actively town. That's not good imo. If you're mafia, FREE MISLYNCH. Just say you're sheeping me, jump on oats, mislynch, yayayaya. It's hard as hell to push a lynch on a guy who is actively just NOT POSTING AT ALL, not caring about this game one bit. Anyone who thinks that's just "oats being oats" is wrong, imo, from what I remember and what I saw in Thug Life, townoats gets accused of being scummy, yes, but he still does STUFF while responding to accusations, even jokingly. Here, NO STUFF. STUFF? NO! That's a one-game sample and that is bad of me, but here's the magical Oatsmaster Challenge. Can anyone who says this is "oats being oats" point to a game where he dropped a game this hard after being accused? Just...never ever posting, and when he posts it's really only to say his accusers are bad? If you cannot find a game like that, then what you actually think is "I believe this is oats being oats, but I'm not actually sure, because I haven't looked back to make sure I remember oats properly." And if you look back and can't find anything, then you're wrong about oats being oats, and you need to be thinking about oats being lynched. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 01 2014 09:13 justanothertownie wrote: I think oats is mafia.Ok, seriously. All of the people on oats tell me why Foolishness is town right the fuck now. BHs mason claim does not count. If you can't you're on the wrong wagon. Austin, take a look at your wagon and tell me you are content with the people on it. I dare you. I want to lynch oats. I am content to HAVE a wagon. If he flips mafia, like I think he will, then I don't super CARE that scum might be on it. Assuming we've got like 4-6 mafia, almost ANY scum lynch probably has some scum on it. This would be ESPECIALLY true if Foolishness is scum, and we came down to a Foolishness/Oats situation. It's not an issue of whether Foolishness is town. I'm not convinced of that. I'm MORE convinced Oats is mafia than Foolishness is mafia, by a little margin. I think Foolishness, as mafia, has to scumhunt or pretend to scumhunt, has to survive nights, will be here tomorrow, whatever. Oats doesn't have to do jack squat as mafia, and if Oats is around at LYLO or whatever it's not as out of place as Foolishness at LYLO (i.e. I think Foolishness gets more scummy if he's around super late, with Oats that's not always the case). Blah blah. I don't really get this though. There are multiple scum. Most/all of us have multiple scumreads. You're suggesting it's super wrong to lynch one over another. I've got a stronger read on oats. I think oats has other bits that make him a more useful lynch overall, if I were the exact same amount of scummy on them (Foolishness gets to look scummier as game goes on, we get to check people's reads on oats). Can you look at Oats and tell me he's town? The exercise is silly, in and of itself, but I don't think ANYONE can look at either of them and go "Yup, totes town 100%". I'm happy to lynch a person I think is scummy. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 01 2014 09:37 Blazinghand wrote: Because you can't graph mafia/not mafia right in line with active/not active? BH, you trippin'Foolishness is basically town for 1) posting reads and cases 2) responding to situations and not ignoring them 3) actually reading the thread and interacting with things that happen in the thread. 4) not being afk Of which all his reads are not doing. Like, I want you guys to contemplate what you're doing here. There's tons of like lurkers who aren't reading, writing cases, making reads, responding to situations, interacting with the thread. They're all being afk or "being afk" and here's foolishness actually playing the game and everyone's like "yeah clearly this guy, the guy actually playing the game, is scum" how serious are you here ._. Actve =/= town. Inactive =/= mafia. They can be indicators. So can other stuff. If I make 18 posts on D1 about how I'm a self-aware miller in a game without self-aware millers, and post a bunch of other active crap, I still 100% lied and about something scum might want to lie about. I'm mafia, even if I were active. Foolishness has posted reads and cases. I didn't like his SnB case. I don't LOVE the WoS case, but not in the same way as I disliked the SnB stuff. Unsure on RoL. But if someone comes in and posts a SCUMMY case, or a bad case that has some bad motives behind it, then yeah...that dude's likely to be scummier than someone inactive. His treatment of Oats doesn't look great in my mind, and I still think he's got some awkward bits in there where he thinks Oats is mafia, but doesn't think mafia was at all worried yesterday. I'm biased here, because I was the one pushing oats, but i THOUGHT I had a chance to get a lynch through. Especially when consolidated started occurring and Oats LOOKED to be the person we'd consolidate onto. Foolishness may or may not agree. Everyone else may or may not agree. But personally, I think there was a chance, and so I'm creeped out by scum not being worried and oats being mafia being a harmonious set of thoughts for Foolishness. Heck, if NOTHING else, he was kinda concerned about Oats's voting yesterday, has been scummy on oats today, but the THINGS that oats did are voting without reasoning (hi a bunch of people) and general absence D1 while being a possible lynch. The latter is NO BUENO, but a bunch of people who have played with Oats and can't all be mafia have told me that's oats being oats. SOME townies are thinking that Oats could be town, despite his actions. Foolishness, maker of cases, looker of old game, etc., doesn't seem worried at all by this, there's no legwork to check. Legwork isn't required, I'm lazy, I can't fault other people for being lazy sometimes or even just for putting in a regular amount of effort. tl;dr ---> A lot of the effort isn't stuff I'm overly townie on, and effort =/= townieness 100%. I didn't like the SnB case. The oats stuff weirds me out. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 01 2014 10:11 justanothertownie wrote: Meh, I don't think oats sucks as town. And I'm confident in that read. I've mislynched before. I will likely mislynch again, assuming I play even just a single other game. It's cool, but you're getting super super worked up over this, when we've had 48 hours now. I know you've been on Foolishness's case, calling him out, but it's not like Oats hasn't had votes, hasn't been a lynch option.No, I absolutely cannot tell you oats is town. But unlike Foolishness oats is KNOWN TO SUCK AS TOWN - it is NOT impossible that he is town. You can't look at his play and tell me with a straight face that this is town foolishness. You just can't. I have no idea how it is possible to have a stronger scumread on oats. I am seriously tempted to shoot oats just to end this madness. I don't care if you can read oats or not. Look at THIS GAME. What's the towniest thing he's done? The scummiest? If you're townoats, what's your thought process throughout the game. Same for scum. Given that you were worried about a chance to defend himself, do you feel he adequately did so? Does it seem he really...TRIED? Did he try/not try in a townie/scummy way? BLAH BLAH BLAH. Who cares if you can read oatsmaster. Is whoever is behind the computer, logging onto the Oatsmaster account, helping town this game? Trying to help town? Austin if you get your lynch and oats does not flip scum I will yell and rage at you and you better promise to lead a foolishness lynch day3. I can't believe how hard it is to get that mafia lynched although almost noone really has a townread on him, almost everyone has a townread on me and confirmed town sandroba GUARANTEED that he is in fact scum. If Oats flips town, I'll go boohoo and I'll read stuff and see where things are at. We'll also have kills, possible claims, blah blah. You're really up in arms here.Poofter you're not helping my paranoia, lol. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 01 2014 10:29 Oatsmaster wrote: Can you talk a little about Palmar?Man I hate this killing people for info shit. Its bad and scummy. His early game actions make him anti-town, The End? Or he's Mother Townresa, somewhere in between, blah blah. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 01 2014 10:52 Tehpoofter wrote: Tbh, nothing right now.@Austin Sorry if I make you paranoid bro just trying to lynch scum. What do you think of Ace/VE not being here and voting no one that is going to get lynched today? I had town reads on both starting the day but their lurkyness is giving me pause. Want to see how this turns out, then work from what information we have. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
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On May 01 2014 11:36 VayneAuthority wrote: I'm mixed on the means of it going down, but as someone pushing this hard...it's easy in a funky way. LOTS of swapping recently, but still took until an hour to lynch to get a majority. Nobody defending him in any meaningful way, which is the only issue, but he's not doing anything that would give grounds for a meaningful defense from not-oats, and is-oats doesn't seem to want to do anything.its too easy, should we abort the oats lynch? idk if i like this Check in, vote, not say anything about Palmar, peace out. Whatever everyone ELSE is doing, I'm just not getting happy vibes from oats himself. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
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Stack paper Sleepytime now, but that's reeeeeeeeeal nice. Probably some neat stuff to mine from folks's reactions and whatnot, but mainly we still just lynch scummy dudes. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Things that I'd like to look at include
I'm honestly not sure how Koshi will flip. The post-shot stuff looked nice, but I was quite worried about him, especially if Oats was mafia. Hopefully we find out later on. Anywho, hooray scum lynch. I'll hopefully be back before the end of phase and actually get to do some legwork, just unsure. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Austin something JAT did very recently struck me as odd. Happy to discuss if we're alive.If you don't die wanna hash that out with me? @Austin What is your read on WoS? to me he seems disinterested and not caring which is different from his game in Catastrophe where he tried really hard and was very into it do you buy that the post restriction is bumming him out? Not worried about him just atm. He was relatively conversant, nothing stuck out that really waved flags. I'll look back over, but he's not in a scumpile for me right now. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
It'd be better if they were also including links to ABBA songs, but you can't get everything. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Slam, you trust Cephiro's claim? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Could you guys please choose a position and tell me why it's the right one? (1) We should lynch BH or slam today (2) We should lynch neither, Cephiro checks another person tonight if he's for realsies, we put or maybeput any protection on him tonight, and on D3 we've got an extra check, possibly a better idea of alignments, blah blah blah. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 03 2014 06:00 justanothertownie wrote: What happens if we go with (2) and Cephiro gets got? Town in a better/worse spot tomorrow?I have no idea how anyone can be this sure about VEs alignment. Besides that (2) relies on the fact that Cephiro survives (ok, if he dies we at least know he is legit). Another problem is if scum has a jailkeeper. The thing is if we lynch one of Cephiros checks we get the same result and have a better chance of lynching scum today. Lynching outside of them only makes sense if you REALLY doubt the claim and I don't see any reason to do so - bold move to claim right now and risk being cced, Cephiro was on the scumwagon day1 when it was 8:8 and last but not least: is there anyone who really thinks BOTH of BH and slam are town? I don't. (I agree that VE is not the choice for a check tonight if BH wants to get from a check what BH wants to get from a check, he said, using a sentence that is difficult to read and understand) | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 03 2014 09:19 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Can you expound on Slam's posting in general making you townie/not-scummy on him?We have a parity cop saying either Alakaslam or BH are scum. Alakaslam is a day vigi who killed Yamato day 1. I don't believe he is scum based off that action and his posting in general. I don't think scum would of been happy with him going rambo and firing off a shot needlessly on D1. We also saw one scum vigi die so far. It is incredibly unlikely that Alakaslam is scum. BH on the other hand looks like absolute shit. His filter is spammy, negative, unhelpful, and cocky as shit. He's also trashing Cephiro's claim, ignoring how stupid the claim would be from scum. it would basically turn into a 1-1 trade if he was scum, which obviously isn't beneficial to him. This reaction is typical of scum, try to argue the claimer into the ground even though you have literally no ground to stand on. Foolishness, answer what I said before. What is the deal with your mason QT. Explain how it works, who is in it, what has been discussed please. Also, if you want to play the game, you're welcome to (1) We should lynch BH or slam today (2) We should lynch neither, Cephiro keeps checking people, blah blah | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/414884-sicilian-mafia-style 24 players, 6 mafia + 1 traitor. Makes the likeliest number 5-6 mafia + 1 traitor here. Thinking that mafia would only have 1 KP once they lose a single scummer is...highly unlikely imo Role list - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuWjFph9GbVwdDIweUpJSnpnU01UT2VTTUFIWWwwaWc#gid=0 Mafia had 3 power roles in their 6. Town had 7 power roles. Game had an SK. We don't KNOW mafia numbers, we don't KNOW KP formulae, we don't KNOW power role numbers, but we've got a pretty good source in another Ver game, with similar numbers of players and a traitor. Shot mechanics will change, lack of SK changes some, any balance concerns from that game may change, not having a bunch of masonry like in sicilian will change things. But overall, it's SOMETHING of a rough template, and I think if you're thinking about this game in terms that are rather inconsistent with the terms of that game, then you're probably not working from correct assumptions. As a side note, the parity cop in Sicilian received paired checks, rather than a stream of comparisons. I found Cephiro's comment about that odd, but it appears that's how Ver runs parity cops. (Seriously though, I don't see this game having less than 5 mafia to start with. No way do they only get 1 night KP after they lose a single member. So I'm working off of telling someone "nice save") | ||
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On May 03 2014 11:03 WaveofShadow wrote: It's poopy assumptioning, but I was townie on him before the start of the day and him ignoring the cop check while continuing to push Foolishness touches me in a very happy and townie place. Something happens in the thread, possibly outing a scum (ish), scum probably comment and deal with that. I don't see them ignoring it to continue pushing their lynch of choice.Austin you're ignoring some important stuff with all that setup speculation. Even IF prplhz were not to know all of that stuff you just listed and/or didn't bother looking it up, which is pretty likely, why would he assume that after one (or even MAYBE 2) scumkills we'd be down to 1 scum KP? It's a horrible assumption this early and it's extremely suspicious imo. Also I don't think you commented on the stuff I mentioned re: JAT earlier. Also what do you make of Foolishness now seemingly ok with lynching BH all of a sudden? Genuine or distancing attempt considering how linked he has been to BH by stuff BH himself has said, and as well through (maybe not necessarily good) assumptions JAT and I have made? And on a third note Palmar/Caller. Where you at with them? Come on Austin, let's chat. JAT I'll look at a little later? I don't think he's the lynch for today, or a possible lynch probably. Will read closer, but I didn't personally read as much into the little apology as you did. What was it you wanted to hash out? Neither Foolishness nor BH are sterling right now. I think that IF both were scum, I'd expect Foolishness not to push BH? If Cephiro's claim is true, and if BH is mafia, then mafia (imo) SHOULD be pushing Slam, at least a chunk of them. Better to lynch town than mafia today. Furthermore, I don't think Foolishness has boatloads to gain from pushing scumbuddies. It's unlikely that if he's alive at LYLO we all go "boy howdy what a townie Foolishness." It's far more likely he gets NKed/cop checked/lynched at LYLO. So to me, a scum strategy of "Cephiro says either BH or slam is mafia, BH and Foolishness are scumbuddies" should NOT yield "Foolishness pushes for BH lynch." He could just as easily push town, and the normal benefits of lynching a scumbuddy (town cred) aren't as valuable to scumFool, because he can't really carry a scumteam lategame, town will be curious why he's alive (Whether he a mythical mafia unicorn is up for debate, but some players can bus a teammate or two and ride the cred to lategame, some players will look SUSPICIOUS if they're alive in lategame, and so the benefit of lynching scumbuddies just isn't there for them). All of the above roughly says "I am worried about Foolishness/BH as well, but when I play it out in my mind, I think there are too many things that make it unlikely they are scumbuddies." Palmar/Caller aren't folks I'm worried about right atm. Hopefully there's a clearer picture of Caller as he keeps Callering aboot. Palmar unknown for me right now. | ||
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(1) Thoughts on prplhz responding to Cephiro's claim by wanting to lynch Foolishness. Do his thoughts read townie or scummy to you and WHY? (2) Who were your preliminary scum reads early on? Even if they have changed, who was it and why? I have a few preliminary scum reads but I need to get completely intimate with das thread first : P not going to throw myself into another retarded tunnel again if I can help it. (3) Does poofter's scumread on Koshi yesterday read as legit to you? If you think it's a legit scumread, do you agree/disagree with what he THOUGHT, and does your read update based on Koshi's conduct after the shot? As far as the lynch today goes, I THINK I'm in favor of lynching into slam/BH. In favor of lynching slam: Normally, when slam gets scumread a bunch, or just gets scumread and hounded by someone like rayn, he has a similar reaction to what he's done this game. Game not fun, don't want to play any/much, generally not participating in terms of scumhunting. His posts read like the wind has been taken out of his mafia fun sails. Best example I can think of here is ... whatever that game was with like Grack/BC/HF/thrawn/people scumteam. I was a vet, rayn got lynched as part of a double lynch D3, risen martyred as town, blah blah, scum won. Rayn was on slam's nuts for a bit, and slam just never seemed to get into the game. I KNOW in that game that I could keep talking with slam. He responded to questions, he had some comments of his own, interspersed with saying rayn made him want to quit the game. He was frustrated/did not want to play, but he was willing to communicate. He was frustrated TOWNIE. His response this game FEELS different. I've asked some questions - + Show Spoiler + On April 29 2014 07:57 austinmcc wrote: Slam, did you follow people's reactions to your shot well at all? Regardless of whether that's a yes or no, you know your own alignment, you know you shot someone and maybeprobablydefinitely should not have, especially if you actually hadn't read his recent posting, so I would <3<3<3 you looking through REACTIONS to your shot for what you find scummiest/towniest? On April 30 2014 06:55 austinmcc wrote: Slam, you were willing to vote oats, but never really said anything else about it. Is oats scummy/scum? Why? On May 01 2014 02:22 austinmcc wrote: Hey slam. I read your filter. I donated you posts yesterday so you could explain yoseff a little more. I see your OOP scumread, and I don't share your thoughts because while you say he's getting outside info or something, it reads to me like he's just flailing around and making stuff up ---> Ace shot people, etc. etc. If someone outside the thread is telling him that things happened when they didn't...well then the scumteam is already going down in flames. Are you willing to consolidate? Our of the 4 dudes above, anyone in PARTICULAR you want to lynch/don't want to lynch? p.s. seriously, you know I'm interested in oats. Plox to answer question? On May 01 2014 02:45 austinmcc wrote: How many times have I called you scum this game or put you on any kind of list I've made for shooting yamato? You shot yamato. That happened, it's over. I'm trying to move things forward here. You need to move things forward as well, imo, because people are more likely to find you townie for ... finding neat stuff, lynching scum, etc, than for talking about shooting yamato. You can me or anyone else or everyone else or any chickens of any level of intoxication you'd like, but we had kind of a poopy end of D1, and we're on track for a poopy end of D2, and we gotta stop that.On May 02 2014 22:29 austinmcc wrote: Gone for a few hours, back this afternoon EST to look at this and other stuff. Slam, you trust Cephiro's claim? But when I donated him posts D1, including one for a silly post, he didn't want to silly post. His responses to my prodding are things like - + Show Spoiler + On May 01 2014 02:26 Alakaslam wrote: Nothing on OOP. Nothing specific on the 4 candidates D2. Well Oats b lurkin so yeah. I would say this I can do. Or On May 01 2014 02:34 Alakaslam wrote: When I'm not AT ALL asking about the shot, I don't care about the shot, I just want to get Slam in threadI havebeen kusplaining why it b really pretty hard to be arsed for this, it is often like if I put out an opinion folks will actually use that as an auxiliary to why someone who agrees should be lynched. So in reply town gets " o well then "And even then I post a huge dblue bold caps saying LOOK GUYS THIS IS WHY I IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT OF ME?And I hear " , Besides lynch foolishness no don't lynch foolishness wait what? !" So I "ok but I don't quit"BEYOND that, there's some meh stuff between him and Oats ---> + Show Spoiler [Not good but not damning] + On April 28 2014 12:20 Alakaslam wrote: Why is it always like this? BH I am saving a post to switch to oats at deadline if SNB isn't gonna be it. Will you be here? Anyone else on SNB gonna be here? 3 left On April 28 2014 12:23 Alakaslam wrote: IN THE MEANTIME MAYBE SOME FOLKS OVER THERE WANT TO SAY IF THEY WILL OR WILL NOT GO FOR THE REVERSE? WHO ON OATS IS WILLING TO SWITCH TO SNB? On May 01 2014 02:35 Alakaslam wrote: That's really scummy, scummy enough to vote for Also, some meh stuff between Oats and Slam (going the other way) ---> After slam's shot, oats decided slam was scum, we should vote him. Calls slam scum D1. Calls slam scum D2. We know now that he was a vigi, COULD have shot slam, and SOME townies would have been happy with him (b.c scumreads on slam). But he never shot his scumread, even though it MIGHT have bought him points with some townies. Not ... too much. But not wonderful. There are reasons to think BH is scum but I'm typed out for a moment. Mainly he just seems to do jack all and have strange trains of thought. People like...I dunno. VA, RoL, WoS, Poofter does Oats calling Slam scum but never shooting him seem at all relevant to you? | ||
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On May 04 2014 03:11 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: There was just a bit you said, And Austin, what more would you like me to say about slam? I felt what I wrote previously was concise enough. I don't think mafia would have the balls to do what he did day 1, particularly given how slam seems to play. I also don't think if he had a scum team they would want him to just randomly shoot someone day 1. Also we already had one mafia day vig flip, yes there could be more than one but I guess I'm willing to play the odds on this one when combining it with the other things I mentioned. I don't believe he is scum based off that action and his posting in general. I got the actions, and I get the scumteam telling him not to take that shot thing, but I was wondering if there was any posting in particular that you liked. If he's town, he's trying to solve the game, and maybe there's something helpful there. | ||
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On May 04 2014 06:10 justanothertownie wrote: Why BH over slam? We definitely kill Blazinghand. I still think Foolishness is also mafia but I promise to keep an open mind if BH flips scum. There have been worse posts than that one. More specifically, you had BH/slam/Foolishness all mafia in your reads post last night. If you believe Cephiro, one of slam/BH is town. BH oddly hard-defended Foolishness, Foolishness has decided to vote BH today, blah blah You asked slam to participate, give reads, so we could tell whether he/BH is town. Slam didn't do so. You're set on BH now. What're the connecting thought patterns between those? | ||
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On May 04 2014 06:38 Cephiro wrote: Mainly because of his response earlier in the day?I'd prefer us to lynch BH first as well. I am quite confident he is the scum out of those two. You seemed kinda meh/scummy on both, anything in particular push you over the edge on BH (or back on slam)? | ||
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On May 04 2014 06:48 justanothertownie wrote: My main problem is just wanting more STUFF in the thread. For a game with post limits, ever since D1 nobody has been getting into big trouble on posting, and there's boatloads of fucking off. It's the weekend, so that's not unnatural, but I'm in favor of less fucking off and just more STUFF in the thread. From both town AND mafia.Like austin your problem seems to be that you find alakaslam scummy - not that you think BH is town, right? Take a look at what BH did and tell me why that's his townplay if you want to convince me. You won't do that by telling me what slam did could potentially be scummy. BH's filter never looks good when I reread it. The ol' "swap to oats, NO WAIT THERE'S AN HOUR LEFT, swap back to SnB!" bit. I'm willing to vote oats ---> D2 starts and oats is scummy but he wants to push gumshoe ----> foolishness is trying to trap me in QT with oats meta, but look how oats is posting here in a different manner than he was posting in a game where he was mafia ---> voting oats for no real reason ---> hey guys, let's shennanies to a random different target is butt. Going straight from gumshoe --> oats because "we're not lynching fool" yesterday, without considering other options (and still later wanting to shennany onto palmar, real or fake). None of it's groovy. There's like, one post that I find pretty townie, but I don't think it's quite on "can't be scum" level. | ||
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In the second paragraph above, BH has all of the following thoughts I'm willing to vote Oats D1 for a lynch D2 is starting and Oats is scummy but let's lynch Gumshoe Foolishness is trying to trap me in QT about oats, but I can show that Oats here doesn't look like mafia oats I want gumshoe, but am willing to vote Oats, although I haven't said why him over Fool/RoL/Palmar Hey guys let's shenany onto Palmar The whole consolidation bit is just odd, given that whether he's serious or not about shenanigans, he chose PALMAR as the alternate target he wanted. Yet when looking between Foolishness/RoL/Palmar/Oats, he wants to not lynch Foolishness, wants to lynch Oats, and wants to say nothing about Palmar, when Palmar was kind of a lynch option and had some votes and whatnot. | ||
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On April 28 2014 13:07 WaveofShadow wrote: Don't quit, 'cause don't worry, we will. On April 29 2014 07:59 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh look I have a post left. Man if I were scum I'd be so happy to be in this game. I think my name has been mentioned/people have talked to me like twice. Don't really blame people though cause I feel exceptionally unless this time around ... I'll be around after deadline to talk if anyone cares about me caus I won't be dying tonight, ill be around till we lose at endgame On April 29 2014 23:16 WaveofShadow wrote: I dunno I think I just have to find someone to sheep all game. Maybe I'll make like Koshi and listen to dead geript for once? I don't think I can play this kind of format again it's killing my activity and motivation. It's funny I yelled at Slam/called him scum for saying I don't care about the game but this may be the game I've cared about the least in like, ever. Someone give me something to do. Austin you're good at that. On May 01 2014 07:29 WaveofShadow wrote: Also fucking Ace----like there is no way all of these apathetic/useless people are scum. This is why we lose. 100% It's so much worse in this game than any of the other large games I've played in. Scum can mislynch into anybody they want right now. On May 01 2014 09:40 WaveofShadow wrote:... Fuck this game. ... On May 01 2014 12:14 WaveofShadow wrote: ... Alright good this game isn't as hopeless as I thought. ... On May 04 2014 08:25 WaveofShadow wrote: I dunno, I think plan is to stay on course because we're in very good shape if he flips red, it's just that we're in very poor shape if he doesn't. ![[image loading]](http://jpdery.com/animated_gifs/flag_woman_stop_hg_clr.gif) We have mislynched ONE TIME. Scum has 1 factional KP or we have a smart protect role that stopped KP last night. Nobody here is incapable of making sentences and having rational thoughts. Scum have a harder time hiding as the game keeps going. We maybe have a cop that might possibly stay alive. We probably have 12 more cops that haven't claimed (plz). Game may move slow, but come on. We're in D3; we lynched scum D2; we have good reason to believe we'll lynch scum D3. + Show Spoiler + Old gifs may be the best thing ever. HERE IS A BONUS FOR YOU WOS. WE ARE GOING TO WIN SO KNOCK IT OFF. ![[image loading]](http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100906182852/uncyclopedia/images/a/ab/Dancing_baby.gif) | ||
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On May 04 2014 08:53 WaveofShadow wrote: Ain't no thang. But it's not like you've never mislynched before/we've never mislynched before/town has never mislynched 2x and won.Lulz sorry Austin I'm just a negative guy by nature. The reason I said that stuff is more because a town BH flip absolutely doesn't mean we lynch scum D3 because we have to re-evaluate the cop claim and all the other stuff surrounding it before we do anything, and in theory in could just be a massively time waster for scum. We'd prefer to be in a better spot, but the spot we're in is okay. And we're all awesome townies and so scum is gon' lose. Plus you'll get frown lines, if those are things. And I guess they're ... not good to have. | ||
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On May 04 2014 09:47 Blazinghand wrote: X pushed me in a scummy manner isn't associative...I'll leave some instructions behind for my QT brothers that they can use. Ultimately, I shouldn't be drawing associative tells between unflipped players anyways  If you're town, you've got 9 votes on you and 7 not. Likely some scum on you. Nobody struck you as particularly scummy for how they got on/off voting you? | ||
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Gumshoe, would you care to play the game? What makes you think slam is town? What changed about BH since - On May 02 2014 23:27 gumshoe wrote: In all seriousness gonna take a hard look at slam and Bh today, Out of the three variables I'm pretty sure Ceph is town, because parity cop is a singular role, ie it's unlikely scum would claim it because if there is a par cop counter it's pretty clear that one is scum. I read Bh as town so far and I've read Slam as Slam / : so not too keen on lynching either of them, but yeah somethings gotta give between the two. THINGS THAT YOU JUST CAN'T POST BECAUSE IT WILL MAKE ME CONCERNED On May 04 2014 10:48 Alakaslam wrote: LIKE YOU MUST NOT BE READ YOU DBZ Y U NO LIKE U KNOW ME OOO NNNN EEEEE LLLLLL EEEEEEE FFFFFFFF TTTTTTTTT gimme post if you want me talk. So far all my defense is wtf have I even done except the shot and try to clear up misunderstanding surrounding the shot? Like what? | ||
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##vote: Alakaslam Just to spice things up. | ||
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On May 04 2014 11:03 WaveofShadow wrote: Any specific thoughts, assuming you don't mean BH himself? I checked the list to see exactly who you might be talking about, nobody off BH is really worrisome to me.I feel comfortable saying that there are scum amongst those not voting BH right now. OH wait wtf for some reason I thought deadline was tomorrow LOL shit Well the above still stands. VA's comments about this lynch in particular are funky (BH out of his mind, slam a lot scummier tho ----> if BH were town he'd be all up in thread's business, so I like this lynch (it was 7 BH, 1 slam at the time, so no lynch yet and we needed 2 votes) ----> keep vote on palmar) But otherwise nothing is smacking me in the face like a banana peel about the non-BHers. | ||
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On May 04 2014 11:08 WaveofShadow wrote: Mixed. After that last gumshoe post I want to lynch gumshoe over EITHER, at least until I forget about it.Austin do you think we should be lynching Slam over BH right now? Slam isn't posting like what I think townSlam should be posting like. He's stuck in time, just repeating about why he shot yamato or why people shouldn't be scummy on him for shooting yamato. There's no forward motion, no attempts at forward motion, you can't wind him up and get him to go, anything. Gut read would be he's mafia based on that. I don't put tons of credit in "scum wouldn't just blow yamato away / scumteam wouldn't let slam do that", because I've seen mafia slam use his roll in a really weird/scummy way, get called out for it, and then just shut down (Aperture 2 or whatever it was). I...THINK we should be lynching BH. Not because slam looks town to me, and I'm not even in the "slam looks like slam" camp. I actively think he's scummy, but if I trust the check and only think ONE of them is scum, it's likelier to be BH. I'm not 100% on that, I waver. | ||
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Hold onto it if you would, unless you really need to speak immediately on something. If you want to respond to my slam/BH stuff, feel free, otherwise...whatever. Just in case. | ||
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On May 04 2014 11:29 gumshoe wrote: Would you please give me like...3 posts or so and we chat for a moment?I tend to have this effect on people XD Anything that comes out of the mouth of someone who hasn't posted for 24 hours is scummy / : so cant really blame ya for hearing things that way. I am town though, it's my saving grace if you will, though I doubt it'll actually do much to actually save me : P never does. Did you actually look back at Slam/BH like you said you were going to? (Serious question that isn't 100% alignment-determinative either way, just wondering) Your one post is kind of just a massive chunk of "everything oats does is scummy". It's also...odd. Like, for someone who's actively doing nearly nothing, whatever alignment you are, you call oats scum and do a case on him AND ACTUALLY LOOK BACK AT SICILIAN AND COMPARE HIS PLAY HERE TO THERE. I REALLY WISH BH HAD LOOKED AT THAT POST. What made you willing to do a bunch of work on oats, but otherwise barely play? | ||
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##unvote ##vote: Blazinghand Nothing happened Hmmm, okay. We played together in nuclear and doctor who, so I may not have seen "el spark-o magnifico". Why Sicilian specifically, and why only Sicilian? Beyond that, when you looked at BH/slam filters, anything in particular strike you that you don't think has been brought to thread? I get creeped out when people say they did something and then kind of give cursory or unrelated conclusions. | ||
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JAT, gotta see. Him being a traitor means some associative stuff is all wonky now, we dunno whether he was recruited or not (afaik so far). It's like VE in Catasrophe, if BH couldn't communicate with mafia yet, then his filter will be somewhat informative but it's not like they'd be coordinating and he wouldn't KNOW if his reads were correct. Still, scum lynch. Bitches, paper, etc. (WoS get out of my head) | ||
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On May 05 2014 06:11 WaveofShadow wrote: Can you maybe take a more in-depth peek at JAT and poofter?So here's the deal Foolishness. It appears as though I'm not going to be able to keep the raving masses from putting your head in a noose tomorrow, so my suggestion to you is to reveal details about your QT. Specifically, who else was recruited with you. If you can't do that, I'm afraid I and everyone else has no choice but to assume you are scum and you will be lynched. There was once a time where I would be considered for night kill; sadly I fear this time is long past but just in case people need to look into (and by look into I mean lynch with cleansing fire) Poofter. Even if people have found him somewhat towns in some way, think about pure role speculation. We have had a mafia dayvig flip, and we know of two confirmed town dayvigs. Is the more likely scenario to have three town vigs to scum's 1? Unlikely IMO. Poofter is scum 95% (I can't give that marv guarantee no matter how good I feel). Palmar and caller are worth looking into with some scrutiny as well. We 100% poofter is a vig JAT claimed repeatedly to be a vig We're not working in a world with 4 vigs, we're working with 5 or 4 and a liar for no reason (okay yeah, shoot x ---> ummm, I can't? ---> DED). | ||
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On May 05 2014 06:54 WaveofShadow wrote: 3JAT has been tunnelling Foolishness all game to the exclusion of basically everything else though lying about being vig isn't a scummy thing to do necessarily. I dunno I'd look into him after foolishness and poofter maybe. There are scummier people than him still IMO. This is my last post I think so I dunno wanna comment on my list at all . Or about how to deal with foolishness or poofter? Yeah, mostly just trying to save for end of phase in case anything came up. I fully disagree that lying about being a vig is kosher, but I think I believe his claim. I don't THINK you post this if you're not really gonna be able to shoot (especially because the implication is shot first, lynch after) On May 01 2014 02:29 justanothertownie wrote: Also the fact that the dude he was considering shooting was oats, or at the very least when he kept asking me I'd say oats was my top read. A world of JAT/foolishness/oats would be really curious given N1/D2 stuff, where JAT seems to be pretty scummy on oats, and was with me in finding some of foolishness's comments regarding oats/the lynch/mafia control of the lynch to be off/wrong/illogical/someotherword. So I'm down with a purely speculatory world where if both JAT and poofter are vigis, and we don't think it's 3-1 or 4-1 in town's favor, JAT would get to be my green vigi and poofter my red.AUSTIN! Let's make a deal. I shoot oats dead and you lynch Foolishness with me. DEAL? Now I will really shut up for a while. I am already running out of posts again... HOLD ON GOING TO DINNER. I'LL FINISH THINKING ABOUT THIS LATER AND WANT TO LOOK BACK AT POOFTER'S D2 AGAIN CUZ FROM WHAT I REMEMBER HE WAS ALSO ABOARD THE OATS TRAIN. IF BOTH D2s LOOK GOOD THEN GOTTA FIND SOMETHING ELSE. THERE'S HALF AN ANSWER, OATS. | ||
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I have liked prplhz in the past, with BH flipping traitor I REALLY like him. Unless BH was recruited, mafia thought it was a town/town shizzle yesterday, with I guess Cephiro as a traitor or something (If Cephiro not OG mafia). Prplhz wanted to lynch FOOLISHNESS instead of BH/slam. People who wanted to straight up lynch Foolishness instead of BH/slam seem unlikely to be mafia, given that mafia could essentially guarantee 2 mislynches, or at very least 1 mislynch and 1 traitor kill (they know neither BH/slam is mafia mafia, just let town lynch one and then the other). It seems like too big an opportunity for scum to pass up at all. You can split yourselves on BH/slam if you're worried about all being on one side, but KNOWING that neither is mafia mafia means FREE MISLYNCHES to the mafia team. I don't see mafia passing up FREE MISLYNCHES in order to try and push Foolishness. Super especially if Fool is mafia, then prplhz is 200000% cleared (Hi there, I'd like to lynch this dude, who is mafia, instead of FREE MISLYNCHES). I can't capitalize that enough. Blah blah. JAT I don't really doubt your claim, it's a silly thing to claim and claim hard if you're not. But WoS was talking about speculation based off 4 vigis with poofter, when at the very least it's 5 vigis or 4 and a lie. I think that we've lynched scum twice in a row and we have scummy people and tomorrow isn't "let's lynch someone based on maybe speculation" though, not that it needs to be said. If I die, my list currently has prplz/ceph/slam as untouchable. Most everyone else on the table. Foolishness is my no-night-kills-no-new-information person for tomorrow. He's been circling so many lynch lists, people who died or would have died were scummy on him, his "mafia didn't worry, but oats is scum, but they didn't worry, oh also oats is mafia" stuff didn't make sense, blah blah blah. Also, when going to a mexican restaurant, ALWAYS CHECK TO SEE IF THERE IS A MARIACHI BAND. IT IS WAY MORE DIFFICULT TO TRY AND TALK WHEN A FRIGGIN' MARIACHI BAND IS PLAYING NEAR YOU. HOLY CRAP NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR MEXICAN GANGNAM STYLE 3 TIMES DURING ONE DINNER. ALSO DON'T FORGET IT'S ALMOST CINCO DE MAYO AND GO FOR MEXICAN. IT WILL TAKE FOREVER. | ||
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Given the disinterest in voting slam, both when I posted some meta stuff against him earlier and then voting him late (more the actual case-y stuff than the pure vote, because scum COULD have glommed onto that case saying "boy howdy I couldn't read oats, but you said he were garsh darn mafia and he were. Now I can't read slam but you say he's one of them mafia varmints so I reckon he might just be mafia"), it seems highly unlikely to me that mafia had recruited BH. I absolutely see the argument for thinking Ceph was the traitor, and between that AND the lack of push towards slam, I kinda think mafia was unsure on yesterday's lynch and thought Slam was the traitor (or ceph I guess with a fakeclaim). Whatevs. That's not particularly telling, except for prplhz (again, especially if fool is mafia). | ||
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I remember him being lurky slash just not posting, making a couple large cases or give-game-direction posts. In both bureaucracy and parallel worlds that FELT like what he did. His D1 in bureaucracy was I think more lurky, and he died D2 or D3, somewhere in there. In parallel I don't think I was super scummy on him and then I got killed before he did much. So I don't have much in the way of experience to call him scummy off of. | ||
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Foolishness was added at the start of D1, before he'd done anything, this bit is true. BH added someone every night thereafter. On N1, they discussed who to add, BH decided on Sandroba. Said he added Sandroba, but was given another bite at the apple given Sandroba's dead-ness, and another person was added shortly thereafter. If true, it's an indicator that BH was not recruited on D1. As far as relevant Foolishness stuff in there:
THE END It's not been the most active QT. He was more active in it D1, early days, talked a decent bit with BH, has gone less posty recently. Unsure if weekend or sad about buddies. Generally, there was a small amount of anti-oats stuff, nothing that makes him super townie, not enough of it, and nothing where he's really trying to PUSH oats to the QT people. He was generally anti-BH yesterday, we were both confused at how BH was interpreted Cephiro's claim, at how the scenarios he was making up could ever be true (Cephiro traitor, guessed Slam and BH for mafia, was told that was incorrect and he failed to join mafia team ----> he fakeclaims cop and says one of those guys is mafia, thinking this will signal to the scumteam that he's the traitor, and will also get town to mislynch these people, stuff like that) It exists. It's not magical. I don't THINK foolishness's posts in QT point, in particular, to any alignment. | ||
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On May 06 2014 04:09 justanothertownie wrote: What I wrote out is what's there. It doesn't make him town, no. It doesn't make him auto-mafia. To me, it was kinda meh either way, and I wanted to see who was super duper concerned with the QT over anything else. I know I'm in it so I see things differently, but to me he/others are scummy or not for stuff that's in the thread already, and anyone who was just sitting around going "GIV QT" with nothing more was someone I wanted to maybe look at more.I have no idea why you think there would be more martyrs or why that would be in the qt. And I have SERIOUSLY no idea why you think what austin posted makes Foolishness town. Look, I trust austin so I will work with what he gave us and shut up about the qt. Fact is - there is obviously nothing in there that makes Foolishness town. Look at Catastrophe or Shadow game and pay attention to the cases Foolishness gives in those game. How much work, point of view explanation and detail is in there. How correct he was about many things in both games day1. Then look at this game. Then put your vote where it fucking belongs. Also, slam has been town on Fool I believe since before the QT. Afaik, that's "fool is town" and not "fool is town b/c of QT stuff." | ||
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On May 06 2014 09:36 WaveofShadow wrote: What have I got for wasting your time? My whole thing is that no time was wasted, but I understand we feel differently there. I'd rather we be looking at non-QT crap, cuz the QT has jack all. And BH would have been pure claiming scum if he didn't invite me, because of the oats lynch + everyone calling me townie + protective roles SAYING they'd target me. You HAVE to add that person, imo. I honestly assumed that everyone would assume I was in there. Also, my recent scumplay has been a far cry from epic.Alright let's see here. Austin, I suppose if you were trying to trap those who have been tunneling Foolishness or something, alright, but what have you got to show for waiting and wasting my time? I don't really appreciate you not setting me straight. I mean I appreciate the QT info, but you really just had to say you were in there. (Now of course this could be one epic as fuck scumplay from you---if anybody could do it, it would be you but I think at this point I'd be willing to lose to you if you pulled something like this and essentially faked an entire QT or something.) Can we talk a little plz? Who do you want lynched today, and why? Now Foolishness I'd appreciate the answering of a few questions if possible. 1) Like JAT says, there are a few cruicial reads missing---where are your reads on me/RoL from that QT considering you were attempting to push us to some degree D1? 2) What from the information that Austin released was so absolutely crucial to your 'circle' that you couldn't release any of it? Unrelated---I'm wondering now if one of the original shots wasn't on scum. If there has been a successful protect the past couple nights I can't imagine they had two shots (unless they had only 1 KP from the start I guess...). I still want Poofter lynched right now, and until somebody offers me something better he is who I will be pushing. 3) This isn't a question but can you do something today so I can feel justified in not lynching you beyond the stuff Austin said? I want to lynch Foolishness. I do not want to lynch poofter today. Foolishness more likely scum, Foolishness more info/connections. Time to de-foo the scumteam. Nobody being particularly active means no trapping, there doesn't seem to be any desire from anyone to ever formulate other reads except to check in every 72 hours, say someone is mafia, and dip. Why poofter over foolishness? Cephiro, I guess don't reveal who you checked last night, but I would personally <3 if you looked into the group of Ace/Caller/palmar/VA/Poofter. With probably a preference towards...ace/palmar/VA. All checks valid, no checks not accepted, and you may or may not die tonight, so ... maybe we get successful checks, maybe no. | ||
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Looking back at it, I don't get that, and a lot of the points where BH pesters Foolishness on D2 about possible lynches, he wants to talk about Caller and Palmar. Foolishness doesn't show massive interest in those, but at the same time, isn't PUSHING oats, just occasionally saying he could be mafia/is scummy, but sometimes just saying "Do you think there's enough to gain over lynching Caller instead of someone like Ace, Oats, RoL, WoS, etc.?" Overall, he doesn't feel like town Foolish, his early cases felt butt, he's not using the QT to really direct anything and isn't really responding to prompting, and all the oats junk never adds up. There's little extra stuff about Foolishness, like when I'm poking at him D2 and I don't understand his "mafia didn't worry about lynch + oats is scum" stuff, and he just asks me (I think sarcastically or like...in a wry manner) aren't I the guy pushing oats D1. If he really was scummy on oats, he would know that the only thing I did for two days basically was push Oats, and when BH is asking about who to add, I think he'd be slightly pushier on adding me (we shared a scumread, lynched him, the dude was ACTUALLY mafia, and I'm ... not that hard to read normally). | ||
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On May 06 2014 10:13 Ace wrote: In addition to Foolishness?Lynch Palmar As opposed to Foolishness? | ||
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On May 01 2014 17:42 Ace wrote: Alakaslammo made a scumslip. Probably shot yamato by mistake, mwahahaha. #moustachetwirl | ||
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On May 06 2014 10:22 Ace wrote: The only reasons are non-QT related. QT stuff matters almost zero, BH adding him matters zero.Correct me if I'm way off here but is there any reason Foolishness is Scum that has anything to do with not being related to a QT? I've skimmed this thread and that's one of the dumbest reasons to lynch someone ever. BH was scum, so Foolishness was in a QT with him = Foolishness scum?
Those are my reasons. JAT has also posted a couple things that I hadn't been looking at, a couple inconsistencies in his posting, like saying he wasn't going to claim QT stuff until the traitor died --> BH dies, flips traitor --> I'm not claiming QT stuff. The ONLY QT-related reasons to lynch him are basically that he's also not trying to wrangle up any control there, and while he and BH chatted a good bit on D1, he's not really trying to push BH towards RoL D2, not trying to push him towards Oats, really just ... not interested in arguing his reads within the QT, and lately not very interested in discussing anything. If that changes and we get to yappin', I'll say so. | ||
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It's less critique-the-summary time and more I'm-ace-and-I-think-the-following-about-Foolishness time, or something like that. That said, I'll play the game cuz it's fun. Drop the word pushed here Foolishness has essentially pushed SnB, prplhz (ish), WoS, oats, RebirthOfLegend, very very very likely Cephiro, and pretty likely JAT. These are the folks he's been scummy on. We'll add WoS there, who was thrown into a reads post. So far it's a lot of incorrect reads. It's not about the pushing, it's about the number of green/likely green folks. Foolishness doesn't have to be magically right on everything, but if he's WRONG on SnB, then WRONG on RoL, probably wrong on Cephiro, and thinks JAT is town despite thinking he was scummy earlier, then you've got a Foolishness who has been very wrong about the game, and is not attempting to correct that. Some folks were "pushed" for lynching, but mainly in a single post, possibly 2-3. For the most part, he followed up his reads with about as much effort as you put into pushing Palmar.The word pushed can be removed and the point is the same, pushed was just poor wording. Dunno on the QT contradiction stuff. I don't believe there was any post. He's got a filter that you can find and look for a change in reasoning though <3 As far as the first 4 reasons, meh. Him not reading the same as town foolishness ain't garbage, it's just not anything you can really present to another person as convincing evidence (at least in that format above) | ||
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On May 06 2014 11:12 Ace wrote: I don't want to ruin it for you, but here's how the games come out:Foolishness can answer that when he gets back. If not or the answer is trash I'll vote him tomorrow. Not gonna filter dive when there are basketball games to watch. The Spurs, despite being terrible human beings for crushing the dreams of every 7 seconds or less fan, continue to be the Spurs and make you almost not want to hate them, because they're so damn good and win so much. The Hawks finally quit overpaying mid-tier stars, but instead of sucking ass and just letting you know they'll be rebuilding, continue to drag themselves into the playoffs and semi-contend for a round, even though you know there will be no chance of them actually doing anything. There. Playoffs over, you can go read Foolishness now. Short game, short filter. | ||
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On May 06 2014 15:05 WaveofShadow wrote: Not that I know of, unless maybe marv is involved.Austin, does scum Foolishness purposefully play useless and antagonistic like this in thread (but semi-useful in QT)? What do you find to be casting townie light within the QT Recently, Poofter wrote: What in particular about the QT makes Foolish look really townie? What do you mean by "don't see a scum team going all in on a single QT"?@austin Thanks for the breakdown of the QT I think this makes foolish look really townie and I really don't see a scum team going all in on a single QT. I also understand reasons for not saying the names of others in the QT. I want to say though if you have info about how/when those persons in the QT were recruited and who pushed for them I think it might be valuable to the thread especially since I think Foolish is town. Did BH give other suggestions on recruits? I saw that you said Foolish was looking at me or you. Foolish recruited start of D1. El Gato Mysterioso recruited N1 Me recruited N2 BH ded Just a normal recruiter where you add dudes at night. Only differences being BH was able to recruit someone at the very very start of the game, to have a buddy during D1, and ... at least he claimed, was able to choose a new target N1, he added Sandro but Sandro was ded, therefore BH was allowed to grab El Gato. Also I'm just going to dick around with the name of the other guy because I find it amusing. | ||
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##vote: Foolishness When I check thread and nothing has happened, this plays in my mind: Poofter, I missed you earlier this cycle, lemme know when you're around. VA, same for you, if you're not deathly allergic to posting. | ||
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Foolish read. Gut, and then anything you find interesting. I posted the crap from the QT, and all you've got on Fool is why would he be hesitant to divulge anything from the QT if mafia. Was there anything in there you think makes more sense to hide as town/mafia ----> Overall read now that it's in the open and Foolishness has seemingly absconded Gumshoejuice gumshoejuice GUMSHOEJUICE You've been summoned. You too get the Once In a Lifetime Chance to talk about Foolishness. Or anyone else. I'd love to hear from you on Foolishness + A Person of Your Choosing. Either something you found in the BH reread that you, cough cough, said you would probably do during N3, or from Any Other Reading. | ||
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"No, I still don't think snb's lynch was mafia driven. The only mystery person is Koshi who didn't flip, but I think he was town (speculating about his alignment is not very productive anyways). Blazinghand pushed it but he was the traitor, highly unlikely to have been recruited by then. If you think I'm the lynch for today then you're severly misjudging the game and what's going on. I really hope the rest of your reads are right because if I get mislynched I'm pretty sure town will downward spiral after that. You can't just kill off an active scumhunter based on "suspicions" as you say and hope that everything will turn out alright in the end. Majority of town losses are because of that. I'm really running out of motivation to play the game." Then there's some salty stuff where he not happy. He said he was gone, and will be back at night if he's not lynched. | ||
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There WOULD be value in just lynching/shooting everyone who isn't doing anything, but it's never an easy thing to make yourself do. He's right, somewhat, to defend himself on activity/scumhunt-y grounds, but when I looked at his recent stuff there actually isn't that much. Since the D2 post on RoL/WoS/oats, he posted on BH/slam, and he posted a second bit on RoL at the start of D3. There's been ACTIVITY, but I'm mixed on whether it's really useful, and I don't think that defending oneself on "you're killing one of the only active players" is valid when the activity isn't as scumhunt-y as I want/expect. Do you guys have thoughts on that? There's BEEN scumhunting from him, but like...what % of his time since that WoS/RoL/Oats post has been scumhunt-y, what percentage scumhunt-y/push the game forward-y? Am I off in my evaluation? | ||
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On May 07 2014 07:53 VayneAuthority wrote: What are the reads? Cuz as best I can tell, he's got enough town that you likely end up at the tail end of his scumlist. austin foolishness has pretty much the same reads as me so I have no reason to lynch him. If he flips scum then I will just follow you guys the rest of the game but I still have a little dignity. Everyone seems to forget that palmar threatened to play anti-town and then didnt die to that fake nuke and that caller was the one that shot it. anyone that thinks this is not 2 fuckers fucking around is blind imo, pretty sure they are both mafia. I get the palmar/caller thing, but the summation of your thoughts on foolishness is "he has PRETTY MUCH the same reads as me", with no further detail, and no explanation of where you guys disagree? I read this and felt like a lot of the stuff he was saying was pretty neutral and/or requires the knowledge of other's alignments i.e. Palmer/Caller/Ace/Prphlz to be town. I did however feel like the bolded parts stood out to me and found the point I underlined the most interesting as austin you made the big thing about how Foolishness didn't research Oats' games when the underlined part makes it seem like he did at least look through them and didn't see similarities (obviously he could fake that and just say he did to seem neutral but why not give a position) The thing is that (assuming what you posted was chronological order) He went from I'm unsure on Oats to talking about his past games and they don't match up. To me that shows a townie thought train of hmm I don't know about x better go research him. If he didn't find anything conclusive it also explains why he didn't express his views in the thread cause what good is that info? Look at what he does with SnB, prplhz, or people in past games. He pulls from multiple games, generally creating a full idea of what someone plays like.With oats, his QT posts are: I'm looking through Oatsmaster's game. This game looks neither like his town nor his mafia play. Look at this post Oatsmaster made when he was mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/4328...g-mafia?page=11#216 Now look at this post which he made this current game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/4484...ce-mafia?page=9#166 eerily similarp those are both D1. Nothing about oats's stuff ever brought to thread though, and that was it. No more posts in QT about his meta. Nothing in the game about his meta. I don't see "hey here's a single post and a single post" as equivalent to what I think of when I think of Fool looking at someone's past games. There are...NO conclusions there except "eerily similar", there was NO checkup on whether people who said "oats = oats" had merit, etc. If you read just the text of those posts, you go "Foolishness says he's looking into oats!" But there's nothing in thread. There's no analysis, no conclusions, anywhere. Especially in a game where I had a hard time convincing people that this looked like mafia oats and not "oats", it is ... off ... to me that the above is ALL we've got, ESPECIALLY if Foolishness thought he was scum, and ESPECIALLY if he was almost the D1 lynch and Foolishness thought he was scum, and ESPECIALLY if Foolishness was the secondary lynch candidate AND oats was almost the D1 lynch AND Foolishness thought he was scum. If you're town and Foolishness is scum, you're going wrong because you're not drawing a complete picture of Foolishness, you're valuing little things he says in a QT over what's in thread, you're looking at some things and you're not looking for CONCLUSIONS and ACTIONFOOLISHNESS. On May 07 2014 08:21 Palmar wrote: I personally think this is 100% wrong.This is no joke btw. We super lynch poof if fool is town. | ||
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On May 07 2014 09:02 WaveofShadow wrote: DAYS ago I was busy pushing Oats and was kinda not paying attention to much else, which is actually crappy of me. I was gonna be in trouble if he weren't red.Austin where was all this stuff when JAT and I were discussing Foolishness days ago? As far as preflip associations go btw I'd be more sure of a Foolishness red flip if we were sure Palmar is town. Not quite sure why Poofter and Foolishness are inextricably linked, Palmar. Less days ago I was in post-scum-death bliss, more unsure on Foolishness. Like, one of the main things that I personally find off on Foolishness is (besides just disliking the SnB case) that things are continuing in the way they do. Foolishness is either TOWN in a game where we've lynched scum 2x in a row, and 2 nights in a row mafia has NOT gotten the kills they wanted (martyrs and POSSIBLE medic protects depending on KP). In this case, I would think there would be more happiness, more wanting to lead town, more wanting to post something that warms my cockles. So SOME of what I dislike are things that get more important over time, and get more important in the context of the way the game is going. Foolishness thinking everyone sucks donkey dicks while AT THE SAME TIME we've had a solid 144 hours while AT THE SAME TIME doing very very little to try and remove the mouths from the donkey dicks is a telling thing. tl;dr more time has passed, and the context of the game has changed. | ||
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What are the reads? Cuz as best I can tell, he's got enough town that you likely end up at the tail end of his scumlist. For this exact moment, I don't care if you're going to afk and do very little all game.I get the palmar/caller thing, but the summation of your thoughts on foolishness is "he has PRETTY MUCH the same reads as me", with no further detail, and no explanation of where you guys disagree? But i WOULD like to know what "foolishness has pretty much the same reads as me so I have no reason to lynch him" means. What are the reads you agree with/disagree with? What ARE foolishness's reads? Do you know them? Regardless of whether you feel this On May 07 2014 09:08 VayneAuthority wrote: You are basing a scumread off some one's position on oats. who actually wants to take a stance on oats one of the most erratic players lol. I just ignored him all game and then he died, thats what you do with oats. I'd still actually like to know why you feel the way you feel about Foolishness. (Also I totally want to take stances on oats, he's not unreadable AT ALL (you can join folks in reading thug life for that, lol)) | ||
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On May 07 2014 09:18 VayneAuthority wrote: 22isn't thuglife where we had some one shoot oats because he was really scummy then he was town? that doesnt help. gonna hold off posting more for a moment. People not posting, would be nice of you to donate some to JAT or myself, <3<3 Thug Life was austin keeps ranting that oats is town, oats WOULD have been lynched on like D4 or D5, but got cop checked overnight as town. Mr. Cheesecake in particular was pushing him for the next day and that was the main way he outed himself as mafia. Oats isn't unreadable. I can't claim to know his alignment 100% every game, but I've had a good track record of being correct any time I actually have a strong feeling on him. I dunno that I could teach you how to oatsread like I could teach you how to Dougie, however. VA, I ... don't like that. Shocker. You're okay with Foolishness because of his reads from the start of D2. Of those 4 reads, 2 guys are dead (and he was 1 and 1), 2 are alive. And he doesn't APPEAR to be scummy on WoS anymore, although he hasn't explicitly said as much (see his posts referencing WoS). You're not at all troubled that "Foolishness's Reads", which you may like, are found at the start of D2, and he's basically put in less effort since then, despite town pushing itself further and further into a good position? | ||
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Also, this isn't "hey did you check one of those dudes last night", just wonderin' | ||
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On May 07 2014 10:42 WaveofShadow wrote: Eh. I felt wonky on oats, feel slightly wonky on this, but what's the alternative? There's nobody who's 105% mafia, hands down, has to be, gggggggggggggg.TY for posts Ceph. And holy shit Slam. O.O Austin this lynch feels so off to me. Is the way Foolishness has played over the last couple of cycles really just scum giving up? And the fact that so many people are seemingly not ok with the lynch by pushing other people and yet they all eventually fall in line.... Again I stick it out here foe earlier reasons but I have definite reservations here. I'm just not sure I see a scum Foolishness antagonize the people who are out to get him. It doesn't make sense. You agreed with me when I said so earlier. If he DOES flip scum though I think we've all but won, and lynch into my list from last night to win. (Yet another reason why I don't think it makes sense for Foolishness to give up here unless the whole scumteam is basically afk now or beyond caring, which is of course a possibility). I'm FINE with lynching Foolishness. It feels good in this case? There's SOME resistance. There's him just straight doing jack and then giving up when the whole time town has been getting into a BETTER position. If nothing else, you've gotten more posty while scummers have been dropping. You were sadface earlier, now you seem to have a little more oomph, and that corresponds with good things for town happening. Foolishness is almost the opposite, except he's also got the whole getting called scum/getting lynched thing going on. But like...he had posts and reads and stuff while town was slow, while we were barely getting people on board with lynches. The moment we start lynching scum, he's suddenly way more absent, and not in "I was wrong, feel like we're going in a good direction, gg let's win" way. He's actively kinda angry about how things are going, and that's NOT what I'd expect after, again, TWO SCUM LYNCHES and TWO NIGHTS OF SCUM NOT GETTING THE KILLS THEY WANT and THE TRAITOR DYING (even in a bad spot, there would ALWAYS be a hope for scum that the traitor was someone well situated). Then look at his SnB case. It wasn't right. Not like, SnB was green, but like it just doesn't FEEL good. Couple people noticed it, and I was townie on SnB, didn't understand the suspicion but especially not the Fool case. Then there's a case on RoL. And a case on BH (who, as traitor, wouldn't be known to scum). Compare those to his posts on Oats. Foolishness is posting up a storm, researching up a storm, to show why SnB/RoL/BH mafia. All people the scum team knew were town or MAYBE traitor. Then look at his treatment of oats. He's SCUMMY on oats, but never PUSHES oats. Oats is a secondary option N1. Oats is mafia on D2, but let's lynch RoL midway through the day instead. When Oats flips mafia, it's right back to RoL. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. MAYBE HE'S TOWN AND PISSED AND FUCKING OFF BUT, IN THE CONTEXT OF THE GAME AS A WHOLE, IT DOESN'T FEEL THAT WAY? I'd agree that mafia Foolishness clears up a couple folks. I'm pretty certain that he's mafia, again, not 105%, but there's the combination of the play, of the people he's chosen to look at and push, and then the fact that his response to the game swinging into a good position for town is to be less helpful. Maybe he town, but I don't think it adds up. | ||
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On May 07 2014 11:23 Ace wrote: Yeah, there's some spin there.It's as if you don't think that if Foolishness is Town, he can have varying degrees of who he thinks is scummy, which would obviously be reflected in the effort level of cases he makes. Unbelievable. The alternate scenario is the the folks he's more sure on, snb/rol, were town, and the people he was less sure on were actually mafia. And that because of suspicion/votes/pressure on him OR because of weekend + monday also, his interest in the game declined. He may also just think everyone is being jubjubs, in a non-playful way. AND PROBABLY OTHER CRAP CUZ THAT IS STILL A BIT SPUN. | ||
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I liked VE's posting in the QT, Foolish was town on us both, and also him coming in here and saying we found Fool town reads town to me. That bit was saying that Foolish and BH weren't scumbuddies, because of some of the ways they'd interacted, but with BH being a traitor, the same logic doesn't apply. So him popping back after absence and saying something that...I think he thinks...but isn't entirely accurate, and being a little suspicious of me for that reads town. Oh nm, he was apparently more sure than I was that Sandro being added N1 meant Fool wasn't town. He looks good to me based on this, although it would be helpful if he'd keep playing. I think I'm town on Gumshoe? He stuck around and responded reasonably for a couple posts when I caught him one time. It's weird that he's ONLY posted on oats really, but Fool didn't think that wsa too incriminating, although he wasn't sure what Gumshoe's alignment WAS, just that that post wasn't scummy in the ways that, for a bit, I found it scummy (one massive post, accuses one guy who is scum, quote tags messed up maybe being a cut and paste error). I was townie on prplhz, Fool not so much, yesterday doesn't give us anything to work with there though. I still read going for Fool over the other two as a townie thing, but need to reread prpl's whole game. In terms of the remainder, I'm kinda unknown. I've played much more with Palmar than Ace/Caller, think I've maybe got a game with each of the other two. VA is...curious. I didn't love his reason for fool being town (his reads from D2 match mine, see posts), and I don't like the whole "I'm claiming hero every other post, therefore I'm town" bit, because it can't be verified and if town DOES have like 3-4 vigis, it's possibly that's balanced out a bit by scum having a hero. Townhero with only one scum vigi seems a bit peculiar to me. Speculatory point against him or against you. | ||
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On May 09 2014 00:18 marvellosity wrote: BH was traitor, not pure mafia.Just finished reading the thread. Don't have great reasons for Caller to be town, but the Oats posts and his general attitude leave it as a possibility, and he is at least tied to players like Oats + VE, which means information can be gathered. I think gumshoe is reasonably likely to be town. One reason is that he went quite hard on Oats at some point. Also BH went at him. The biggest reason, imo (connecting the two), is that gumshoe made a very very long post saying for a long time how his accuser, BH, was town. Having spent a bazillion words saying how his accuser was town, he then used this sidestep to... call Oats mafia instead. This seems like such an unlikely mindset/sequence for mafia to pull off. Why bother spending so much time saying how your accuser is not mafia (when he is your scumbuddy) only to call another scumbuddy mafia instead? Simpler explanation = he is town. VA is quite possibly town because he keeps banging on about whatever his role is like a weirdo as if anyone ever gives a shit, but he just keeps on going on about it. Reminds me a bit of Hogwarts when he kept saying he was practically confirmed town for something role-related. You should shoot Ace 100%. He has nothing tying him to anyone. His flip is meaningless in regards to anyone else's alignment. Town loses nothing by losing Ace, and we might just hit a mafia. There's no particularly good reason to think he's town or scum, and with a lack of other connecting information, he is essentially the perfect shot. Do you believe that he was recruited super early, and therefore D2 Gumshoe knew of BH? Because otherwise, a mafia Gumshoe has no knowledge of BH, they're not scumbuddies. | ||
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Immediately starts asking Fool/BH if they're okay with each other Okay, having read this thang I only have one question for both of you: Are you fine with the other one? As in, you've spent time together in here, do you feel like the other is trustworthy? I assume the answer is yes based on what's been said in thread and in here but I want to make sure before we go further. Starts poking them about reads, doesn't get why Foolishness wants to lynch RoL on D2 (looking more at Caller/Palmar, and doing so by 'splainin' himself AND pestering Fool/BH about their reads on the two, why they have em, etc.) has 1800000000 options to call people scummy. Doesn't do says. Says gumshoe posting is different from gumshoe's normal play, but not townie/scummy for him. Pokes BH because BH wants to lynch Gumshoe, but also is okay lynching Oats (who is pushing Gumshoe). Calls BH scum in a joking way for that, in a way that reads townie. Blah blah. Also I'm super duper convinced by him kinda sorta pushing me but not really. His posts in thread, and a couple in QT, read like he is confused about me, a little worried. He's...not sure if I'm town or not, but there's no malice behind it, there's no purpose like "I'm gonna lynch your ass pew pew pew." It's "wtf is up I thought this and that and why aren't you doing x, because I think you should be doing x as town, are you not town? Uh oh." ----> AND THEN HE ASKS ME STUFF AND WHATNOT, INSTEAD OF JUST SAYING I'M SCUM AND DRAWING BAD ASCII PICTURES AND TALKING ABOUT ABBA LIKE SOME OTHER JERK HAS BEEN DOING. Anywho, VE is not mafia. Please try again. | ||
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United States6737 Posts
On May 09 2014 09:32 Tehpoofter wrote: Haha, I also had a 1 to and 1 from conversation with VE that game.@Austin I don't have QT access but that instantly suspicious thing that you brought up reminds me of Catastrophe where I PMd VE during the PM phase and was hit with nothing but a wall about how he couldn't trust me. (He was traitor in that game) So when you said that it makes me actually feel like he is more Scummy. It's not that he doesn't trust them though. He's instantly asking whether THEY trust each other, looking for what they've been thinking. He starts giving reads, asking for reads, and he drops the jokey bit on thinking BH was scum (he had BH pretty townie actually, all through the lynch). So it's not like he's sewing dissent, he's trying to see where they're at. He doesn't not trust them, and he doesn't not trust me now. @slam/Austin/Jat/Wos/Palmer how is marv's scum game? Cause I had a pretty decent scum read on prphlz but Marv seems really town its hard to think they're the same "person" in the game cause htye seem like different alignments to me. Is marv good enough at scum to look townie like this? His scum game is solid. What seems really town to you about marv so far?On May 09 2014 09:35 marvellosity wrote: He called me a bitch none of this says why VE is town. Please try again Scum VE has never used dirty language towards me.Also, it certainly indicates why he's town. More than foolish or BH (or myself I think except trying to be all sneaky and being an idiot), VE used the QT to try and figure out THEIR alignments, and also their reads, while sharing his own. I know you dislike him not pushing oats/voting oats, but you wrong. His N1 chat with Ace is someone trying to figure out the game (both Ace himself and see whether he agrees with Ace's thoughts on other players). His QT stuff is him trying to figure out alignments there, and push lynches on scum suspects of his. During the times where VE has actually been here and not in stupid AFK land, he's looked to solve the game and that is positive. You know that. Doesn't vote oats, along with a bunch of folks. Yes, he wouldn't respond to a couple questions I posed about Oats and his Oatsread. That's a + to me. If he's scumbuddies with oats, he doesn't even respond? He goes "I'm defending my scumbuddy, a lynch candidate, and this guy is hounding my scumbuddy, and he's asking about my read on my scumbuddy, I better just entirely ignore it over multiple questions"? No. Not buying it. People who gave shitty justifications like "can't read oats" or "oats is oats" are more likely to be scum, imo, than someone who just wouldn't answer questions about his read on oats. Koshi thing is kinda meh, and if VE loves being right and wants to look all correct, why is he townie on caller ---> vote caller? Like you basically say "VE is mafia because of this Koshi quote where Koshi says VE likes being right" AND "It's worth noting that VE voted caller for a while, despite calling caller town and defending him." At the very least, the second negates the first. VE can't love being right and want to appear right AND take both sides of an issue. | ||
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austinmcc
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On May 09 2014 09:58 marvellosity wrote: Mostly @poofter here.Ok I'm only going to reply to this once, because it's a waste of my posts that I'm totally not wasting on other things like popcorns. The push on Foolish when Ceph had his claims is practically the towniest thing in his entire filter (other than said generic reasons which i mentioned) and it makes me sad that you don't understand why. Again with the background, prplhz = lurky, useless, does nothing scumplayer (to be fair, he does it as town also, but always as mafia)... anyway prplhz wanting to lynch Fool in general is just a read, lots of people wanted to lynch Foolish. Wanting to lynch Foolish on the day of the cop checks, well that's just unbelievably townie. There is literally zero chance a player like prplhz would stick his neck out and quite forcefully and repeatedly say we should be lynching Foolishness when there's a cop check. He would (and almost any mafia would) want to lynch into the cop claims. Because town is 100% going to lynch into the cop claims, so you're just drawing attention to yourself. You're suggesting a mafia prplhz, known for his passiveness (you don't need to know this), vehemently suggests lynching a town Foolishness in a situation where Foolishness can't possibly get lynched, in order to look terrible later when Fool flips town. It's ludicrous and you should be able to see why this is ludicrous. Engage yo brain. I think I've made it quite clear what i make of Ace. Caller's "mass claim" is silly, and not in any particular way, although I'd lean slightly town from it maybe, for the simple reason towns never massclaim when some random dude with no influence goes "let's all claim", while on the other hand it's a guarantee when some dude does that that at least one person in town goes "wow what a terrible, scummy idea". Effectively there's no upside to a mafia with no thread influence suggesting a massclaim because town will not do it and he will look weird for not doing it. The flipside (and why it's not a strong townlean for that) is that a mafia can just say "yolo let's suggest this" This was basically my reasoning when I called prplhz super townie. Foolishness was more worried about prplhz, just not sure what to make of him and kinda scummy, I was very very townie because sticking neck out and aiming AWAY from the cop checks (when you can just kill the townie and waste time) read very town to me. i THINK that BH being traitor negates this. The rest of prplhz's filter is still valuable and we need to look at it hard, but the voting Foolishness stuff is meh because if scum trusted the check, they knew that EITHER slam or BH was traitor. Scum wanting to lynch outside a town/scum check doesn't make sense to me, because they can push for a 1:1 lynch, at least try and swing things that way. But scum don't want to lynch the traitor. If they haven't tried to recruit, cephiro's check says TO TOWN "one of these guys is scum." TO MAFIA, it says "one of these guys is the traitor." Mafia has, at worst, a 50/50 shot now at recruitment, instead of having to pick the traitor out of everyone. Just waiting even one day lets them try to recruit and be at full strength. I can totally understand mafia wanting to lynch outside the cop check IF the cop checks the traitor. I thought it was super townie because I thought the cop check had found a full-fledged mafia. Marv is arguing the same thing now, and while "scum prplhz dislikes sticking his neck out" is possibly a valid point, "scum would want to lynch into the cop check" is not. | ||
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On May 09 2014 10:15 marvellosity wrote: They're not appalling and you know it. He doesn't have to be active ANYWHERE, he's been inactive at times in the QT (last phase). But he goes and is actively poking at Foolishness and engaging him. That's townie activity.ok austin, I'll have this lynch without you, I don't need you. None of your defences suggest anything mafia-VE wouldn't do, in fact the things you are reading as townie are not in fact townie. Active in QT -> doesn't have to be active in the thread, has to play with less people Chat with Ace -> ??? just a nothing. Has looked to solve the game while he wasn't afk -> literally totally untrue. He's done the opposite of that. He's not tried to solve anything. See 3-scumread post I quoted. Literally the opposite of trying to solve anything. Refusing to answer why he has an unexplained townread on Oats -> yep, definitely not townie Caller stuff -> likes to be right, ends up just going with the flow of the thread anyway (which was policy Caller). So he wants to be right and then caves to the path of least resistance because the thread says so. No bollocks. Then his response to his case on me = "I am going to find mafia!" ----> "marv is mafia for no other reason than he thinks I am mafia" ----> "please guise vote for this dude, even though I have taken the really easy way out of doing no work and just omgus marv" If you really think VE is a bad target, you're better off spending your time finding a good other target, because currently your defences are making me think VE is more likely to be mafia, because if these are the best reasons for VE to be town, then they're appalling. As far as not trying to solve the game, what? "He's not tried to solve anything". He tried to figure out Foolishness and BH's alignments. He tried to figure out what their reads were on Caller and Palmar, and why. He tried/is trying to figure out why I wanted to lynch Foolishness, and how I feel about you. You pointing to a post or two where he DOESN'T TRY to figure out the game is nothing. If I go "there are a lot of balloons in this room", you can't point at a table and go "THAT ISN'T A BALLOON" when there are also 20 balloons up in the air. He hasn't tried to solve the game with every post, looks like. That doesn't change what he did with his other activity. Refusing to answer the townread IS townie. Scum give crappy answers, get mixed up, whatever. Scum VE doesn't just ignore stuff for that long. Likes to be right --> takes both sides of an issue. There's something wrong with that one. I can't quite put my finger on it. Unless Caller is both town and scum, I guess. You're wrong here, and VE isn't the lynch, and he's pretty rightfully suspicious of you. I don't think you're a good lynch for today, neither of you are, but your push is bad. Not only are some of the things you're bringing up meh (koshi quote --> caller swap), but you're essentially saying "I just joined, and also I don't have access to everything VE has posted, but everyone should trust what I'm saying more than what the people that DO have access to VE's game are saying." I didn't trust Fool, now I know he's town, we both had townreads on VE, we both agree he was very townie in the QT. That's not everything, but it's enough that not just I should be looking elsewhere, but so should YOU. Can anyone who wants to lynch VE raise both hands? Can anyone who thinks VE is mafia, or thinks marv has a good case here, raise one hand? I'm interested in talking to anyone who thinks the case is solid, that VE is the lynch today. My first question to you is going to be the balloon/table thing. I know you can't see all the balloons, but do you think that "The room is not full of balloons because here is a table" ("VE has not been trying to solve the game, here is a post where he doesn't") is a MOST AWESOME point? Other questions will follow, I really want to look into this and we can get peeps active and talking so yes it's lovely and talk to me yumyum. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 09 2014 10:36 Ace wrote: Any chance you got in-game reasons, not Dota 2 steam group related ones, for the swap on Palmar?austin by far the mvp right now. So much sensible stuff. He's more likely to get lynched today than any other day, you could finally complete your glorious mission, but you seem to have abandoned the quest. | ||
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On May 09 2014 10:46 Ace wrote: I don't think the massclaim matters much. He knows it won't happen, and I don't share your coroner worries b/c as far as we know, there's only one shot left. If we've got a coroner, he's done his job, and any protective roles SHOULD have been on Cephiro last night, so it's likely that scum just has the 1 night kill, not that we've had 2 protects in a row before last night (possible double stack, i guess).Yea he could but I see Caller as a bigger scum possibility. Palmar has at least tried to figure the game out a bit (just like yours truly). Caller asking for massclaim when he knows better is much fishier to me. Besides, I'm still not fully over Day 1 shenanigans. I just don't think a coroner gives much more intel at this point, or at least intel that's gonna be useful. In the same vein I don't see a mass claim doing squat, there aren't any watchers/trackers to call people out on fakeclaiming VT, not really any benefit to claims. Given that scum just killed the cop, no coroner has claimed despite us having no flips for a while and likely having only 1 more max, and us having no protective roles (likely) if scum didn't double stack, I don't see any...scummy motive for pushing a fakeclaim. | ||
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All we need is a coroner to say "They were this alignment, I am coroner." Also, how does...knowing the alignments of the no-flip players help mafia? They know who the traitor is. They know who the mafia is. By process of elimination, they can pretty damn near guess 100% of the townies. They already know everything, unless Koshi/Yamato had specific roles, and if they DID have roles, who cares, scum don't care, they're dead. It's entirely the opposite. Mass claim (or really, just a coroner saying the alignments) reveals information to TOWN. Scum knows the alignments on those guys, town doesn't. You cray. | ||
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United States6737 Posts
On May 09 2014 11:16 WaveofShadow wrote: Do 'splain please?Sorry Austin. I trust marv more than you and will be sheeping him today. Even if Palmar convinces him to vote me. The stars have really aligned in this game--- for once I actually have a strong town read on marv I have no reason to doubt AND I don't feel guilty or stupid sheeping him because all sorts of meh. Maybe I will care more sometime tomorrow before deadline. ##vote: visceraeyes I'm interested in the strong read on marv. I'm mainly interested though in what specifically about the case you like, and whether you think "here is a post/are a couple posts where VE wasn't trying to solve the game (despite giving reads)" is a good counterargument to "VE has been trying to solve the game, here is a time in thread where he was trying to figure out the Caller/Palmar stuff, and he was trying to figure out Foolishness and BH in QT". | ||
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"I trust marv's read on VE more than yours" or "I trust marv more than you" but in the case, what you'd ACTUALLY need to be thinking is "I trust marv's read on VE, based on just what VE has put in thread, over your read and Foolishness's read, both of whom had access to everything that VE has posted this game AND I trust marv's read on VE, but his read on me is butt he should be reading me town because of x, not be all wishy washy on me" (Or, I guess "I trust marv working with partial information over you and Foolishness working with full information AND I trust marv's VE read despite thinking his read on my should be different than what it is") | ||
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On May 09 2014 11:28 WaveofShadow wrote: Sure, but you know this isn't actually the argument you want it to be. I pushed him yesterday and voted for him, was wrong.You know who else had access to everything in a QT and still thought somebody in there was scum? I can think of somebody. That doesn't mean I'm wrong on VE. And you also KNOW Foolishness is town now, and he was townie on VE. So...it's not just me here. Just because i CAN be wrong with full information doesn't mean that full information doesn't lead to better reads than partial information. If you want to keep score, full information > partial information. austin + foolishness = 2 people, marv = 1 people, 2 people > 1 people. austin was wrong on foolishness. That's like 2:1 in favor of VE being town. That's TWICE as much. If he's mafia, he would have had to get TWO town PMs also (two is twice as much as one). AT THE VERY LEAST, YOU REMEMBER WHEN YOU WERE KINDA WORRIED ABOUT SHOOTY MCGEE BALANCE? THAT TOWN MIGHT HAVE SLAM + POOFTER + JAT VIGIS AND SCUM MIGHT JUST HAVE WAVE? JUST IN TERMS OF BALANCE CRAP AND NOT AT ALL ABOUT POSTS, PLEASE TO SPECULATE FOR ME. WE HAVE 3 CONFIRMED VIGIS, 1 CLAIMED VIGI, 1 CLAIMED HERO. DO YOU THINK 3v1 (town v scum) VIGIS IS BALANCED IF SCUM HAS A HERO? DO YOU THINK THAT 2v2 WITH A TOWN HERO IS NICE AND HAPPY? PLEASE WORK THE HERO INTO YOUR VIGI SPECULATION AND JUST SPITBALL FOR ME HOW YOU THINK THOSE NUMBERS WORK/DON'T WORK | ||
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On May 09 2014 11:41 WaveofShadow wrote: Open the spoiler, senor.How exactly does the QT matter zero where Foolishness was involved but it matters where VE is involved? Ace asked Correct me if I'm way off here but is there any reason Foolishness is Scum that has anything to do with not being related to a QT? i.e. "Isn't Foolishness just scummy for stuff in the QT". Which might lead to "No, that's not the case, here is why Foolishness is scummy."Why was prplhz townie/why IS marv townie? Like prplhz's comments on SnB are basically that Foolishness's case is butt. He votes oats, who is not his preferred lynch, drops this On April 28 2014 11:52 prplhz wrote: don't remember seeing an easier lynch and a bigger wagon than oats but whatever, better than strongandbig ##Vote Oatsmaster i don't hold high hopes for this inb4 it's a scum tell that i vote for a wagon and denounce it in the same post 9 mins before deadline and swaps back to SnB when consolidation occurring. D2 we lynch Foolishness over Caller/Ace/BH, no mention of oats (who I was still pushing) - + Show Spoiler + On April 30 2014 05:38 prplhz wrote: Like Foolishness has done exactly what he said his scum meta is: he completely disappeared d2 after making a bad case on d1. Today we just do what sandroba said, 100% scum lynch on Foolishness. we're not going with some Caller/Ace/Blazinghand bullshit. Today we listen to probably the best town player (no no, not me, sandroba) saying that he's 100% sure on someone else and we lynch Foolishness. Get on with it. His thoughts on oats D2? On May 01 2014 11:57 prplhz wrote: oats 11 votes already dead On May 01 2014 11:59 prplhz wrote: he could be scum but i'd rather lynch fool SUPER DUPER MEGA DOESN'T MAKE HIM SCUMMY. I WAS TOWNIE ON HIM BEFORE AS WELL, BUT I'M JUST CURIOUS AS TO WHAT WAS PARTICULARLY TOWNIE TO YOU. On May 09 2014 11:43 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah. You know how sometimes I call you Oats or Oats WoS? Ta da! That was a mistake and the part where I say you flipped scum should say that Oats flipped scum. Also I'm talking here because I'm not scummy on you, and I'm trying to understand where you're coming from on this, because it confuses me from town WoS.I don't even understand what you capsblasted at me just now, but I can see that you called me scum. Something you want to get at, honey? The caps bit is this
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austinmcc
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On May 09 2014 12:02 WaveofShadow wrote: (1) What you're saying is "BUT YOU SAID THE QT DIDN'T MATTER FOR FOOLISH AND NOW YOU SAY IT'S EVERYTHING ON VE" and what I'm saying is "The first comment has some context, here it be"I wasn't pushing poofter when I was based on the role speculation. It was just some yummy icing. I'm not sure where VA fits into all that...speculation is just that, speculation. (Also remember we've had a claimed vig for...how many days now who hasn't shot when he's had more than ample opportunity for some very good ones. All he's done is threaten people all game with it.) Also you didn't answer my question austin. I don't care about why you said that, or who you were answering. I want to know why the stuff in the QT doesn't have anything to do with why you call Foolishness scum and/or is completely non-indicative to you, and yet the stuff VE has done in the QT is very town-indicative. (2) PLEASE SPECULATE ANYWAY. I WANT TO SEE YOUR SPECULATION. SHOW ME YOUR THROBBING SPECULATION. (3) Foolish in the QT isn't alignment determinative to me. He has some comments, but VE is like...actively PUSHING fool and BH to try and figure out their alignments and their reads. Fool talks some, says stuff, but he's not pushing against anyone else in there, and his reads in the QT are the same as his reads in the thread. There's also the fact that VE's stuff...specifically counters what marv is saying? The QT is relevant to "VE is not trying to figure out the game." Nothing from Foolishness in the QT is the same relevance? Not to mention that VE has posted way less in thread as compared to Foolishness, so ... what he's done in QT is a larger percentage of his overall stuff. That one doesn't say why Foolishness's wouldn't matter, but it's a reason why, for VE, the QT is particularly important. You're missing much more of VE's contributions/comments/actions than you are of Foolishness, and the THINGS that VE did in the QT were more telling than what Fool did in the QT (If you think that scum would never tell a recruiter mason to add a NK target to the QT on the night of the shot, then this statement doesn't apply to you, as Foolishness saying to add Sandroba on N1 would ONLY be townie in your mind, and would be super duper relevant. I thought it could go either way, as scum might not want to be in a QT with a growing number of townies) | ||
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Jesus Christ could you hard claim Masons in the thread any more? The fact that you're not dead is very suspicious to me. -.- 1 hour laterI'm going to read this thang before I post too much. Okay, having read this thang I only have one question for both of you: Are you fine with the other one? As in, you've spent time together in here, do you feel like the other is trustworthy? I assume the answer is yes based on what's been said in thread and in here but I want to make sure before we go further. Does anyone in here think that Caller/Palmar are town? BE HONEST BECAUSE ITS IMPORTANT. BH responds I don't think Palmar is really town but I wanted to give him more time to prove himself since he's a potentially valuable asset. I figure if by halfway through today he's still derping and herping we should kill him. 1 minute later VE respondsCaller now. and 1 minute after that Also I have no such reservation about Palmar. He's looked town as town in the last few games. HE does not look town this game, so I'm willing to lynch. Tell me what you think of Caller immediately. Foolishness I feel the same about Palmar as what Blazinghand said. I don't know about Caller. I thought he was town early yesterday but haven't gone back to confirm that read. Really I wouldn't be upset if either of these guys died. I don't think lynching either of them is the right move for the town though. VE respondsAnyway I want to lynch caller not shoot him. I want to know whether he's scum or not because to me that's important with what he's doing right now. Foolish I think you're town but sandroba didn't and he's confirmed town now so if you don't want town to lynch you please prove you're town to the thread. When asked by Fool why we should lynch Caller over "ace/oats/RoL/WoS/etc." I don't know why you think Ace is scum, Wave and Oats look like their typical town selves imo, RoL could hang imo, but what is there to gain in lynching RoL over lynching Caller? Like, there have been people who have taken stances on Caller/Palmar, no one is talking about RoL at all. Maybe if you kinda EXPLAIN what there is to gain? BH asks who's around, Fool says he is but thinks VE got mad at him and wasn't around, VE says to fuck mafia and that he's gonna sleep/read, and adds For the record, everyone who called me town died. I was under the impression you thought I was /not/ the worst Mafia player to have ever lived, but I guess that's wrong. Fool responds</3 No what you said is correct, I do not think you are the worst mafia player to have ever lived. VE says nothing more on that front.Also I did say that game that you're my favorite, I didn't just say that to say it. He pushes to add me to the QT, says I'm good and that there's no way I bus oats so early with Oats having a shot. He does this while BH is waffling on whether to add me and says he wants to go look at past games of mine to see if I'm town. There are a chunk of posts where he wants to lynch Slam over BH, but thinks BH is a silly billy for not trusting Cephiro's cop claim. He wants me to go reread The Game, but I never found out why. He agree Foolishness/BH can't be scumbuddies, b/c QT had a bunch of posts and even IF this was some scum ploy (add a buddy to QT), it wouldn't read like it does. Posts today where he's not quite sure about me, maybe Foolish was cleared because if he were scum Sandroba wouldn't have been shot on the night BH tried to recruit him. We talked about this bitch. I say no, I was unsure on that point and more focused on interactions which didn't matter once BH flipped not-OG-mafia. He respondsMaybe, but taken with the interactions...like, both the interactions AND what I mentioned said he was likely town. Not one or the other, who cares if... ARE YOU FUCKING SCUM AUSTIN? Anyway, there's most everything. To me, how he interacts with me today is relevant; the point I mentioned before where BH says he wants to lynch gumshoe and gumshoe's target (oats), and VE calls him mafia for that, or sorta-jokingly (not specifically posted here because the above is all there it to it); his entrance; the way he asked BH/foolishness about palmar and caller, while responding quickly and not wanting to shoot caller, only lynch him; sorta half-joking with Foolishness about some comment from an old game. It's just posted pretty freely, he's looking into things, starts out questioning them. Blah blah. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Look at his conversation with Ace during N1. He's actively trying to figure out what Ace is thinking about stuff, looks to be evaluating that, and coming around to think Ace makes some sense. He follows that by asking Ace about prplhz, who is connected to Palmar, and so VE looks to be like, not only trying to understand what Ace is saying/thinking, but push him to see where it stops (is prplhz mafia then if palmar is mafia, b/c of pardon?). iirc that was the most glaring bit to me where he's honestly trying to figure something out. Re: who I want to lynch today Started simple and pared down a list to Caller / Palmar / VA / Gumshoe. My larger option has more people, but more people is bad and there should be scum in there. VA's D2 takes him off my list for me. He likes Foolishness and Foolishness's reads at that time, later references Fool's D2 reads post when I'm asking him why he's townie on Foolishness and what reads he agreed with. At the very least, that's just a minor thing that checks out. He's offering Palmar and Oats as lynch/shot options, and votes/sticks on oats. Although it looks like he's got cold feet at one point, "its too easy, should we abort", he doesn't move his vote. His initial post after the Oats flip is to assume everyone on Oats D1 is clear. Shows me that he's thinking about the flip, what to do with it, what does it say. I dunno that the conclusion is 100%, but I like the thought to be barely barely townie. Also I kind of liked the recent post where VA asks WoS what I'm pushing, when WoS is saying he trusts marv more than me and wants to sheep him. Just at the very least following along and asking a decent question there. Whatever. That leaves me with Caller/Palmar/Gumshoe. Gumshoe I dunno about. He HAS occasionally posted stuff like his Oats thing. There's a big post on rayn in cell mini, where he just compares rayn's play in cell to a past game. I'm not used to seeing ginormous posts from Gumshoe, and not cases, so it caught me by surprise but he HAS done it in the past. It's still wonky to me that basically the biggest thing he's done is drop a fat case where everything Oats did was scummy, vote oats, and then just afk the rest of the game. The last two cycles only dropping by the last hour of the day (little less than random afking) is ... not lovely. There's nothing meaty to go off of, though. If scum thought oats was gonna be in trouble D2, maybe you have one guy push him to look good later (because Gumshoe so often suspected/mislynched, needs something to get by in late game), but that's only looking at it from a scum perspective. BLAH BLAH BLAH this post ends abruptly and I go to sleep | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I come down to Palmar/Caller/Gumshoe/Marv. Palmar wonky just because he feels very inconsistent internally? I *think* this might be slightly town, just because I feel like Palmar can be lazy/trolly as scum, but recently he's at least tried to look townie early, or townie when he's not being lazy/trolly. This game, he doesn't talk about oats ever, which I dislike. But if he's trying to ACCOMPLISH anything, push anything for mafia, he's doing terrible at it. Thinks killing slam is a good idea D1/D2, but votes BH over slam. Thinks fool is a good lynch D2, but also RoL, the guy Fool is pushing. Thinks Poofter is scum if Fool is town, and LOOKS like he means it, but instead of pushing Poofter is now pushing WoS (for bad reasons). It just seems like he's not trying to accomplish anything, nor is he trying to look town. He also took 0 opportunity to say oats was scummy or anything, when my recent experience with scum Palmar is that if you look a little scummy, are up for lynch, are being pushed, and aren't responding at all, he's gonna be pissed at you and start calling you scummy. The fact that he said nothing about oats when oats was doing nothing is inconsistent with that, see III Titanic scum QT. So overall, there's nothing to make me particularly green on Palmar, but it doesn't look like he's red, and in a group of possibles that takes him out of consideration for me today. Caller / Gumshoe / Marv I'd be interested in people pushing marv talking some about prplhz. Were you scummy/townie on him, why, what has made you change/not change your mind, blah blah. Like...personal thoughts, not just +1ing someone else. I don't like the idea of lynching marv the day he joins, but I think this push on VE and his responses have been BAD. "I don't have full info but yeah I'm more right" and "He's not trying to solve anything in this post here, therefore he's not trying to solve anything anywhere" aren't legit and marv seems to think they are. I'm used to arguing about crap with marv when we're both town, but NORMALLY i'm probably the one who's wrong. I'm arguing something dumb, or absolutely convinced that this one odd thing could save me thousands on my mortgage and also makes someone town/scum. This time, I'm entirely right and he's got the bad arguments. That's not something I'm used to, and it's not our normal arguing. I think marv is an option today but I'm hesitant to lynch him MAINLY because of hindsight about Foolishness, and feeling like things could be better if we'd lynched into inactives and not Fool. Yes, there are people we don't want in LYLO. Yes, we have some ?s. Every day we say we'll deal with that later, while lynching someone active/semi-active and scummy is ... another day we can keep doing this same dance. We'll ALWAYS find someone who did something weird or scummy and keep lynching those people over the folks we really need to figure out and/or kill. I end up on Caller/Gumshoe then. Gumshoe pushed oats, in kind of a curious way ---> "Hi, I haven't played this game, here's a bunch of reasons why everything this guy has done is scummy" ---> that guy is scum. Yeah, he made a big post with pictures and crap, and yeah, he pushed oats when there wasn't a NEED to do so yet, if he just wants to be on a scum lynch he could have waited a bit if oats is a buddy. But his response after the lynch is Sigh so hard to get inspired for this game T_T Glad to see Oats flip though! "I just posted a case, despite you bitches thinking I never post cases. Also it was totally right. Also we lynched mafia today. Also that mafia had a shot he didn't get to fire. Man, it's so hard to get inspired."Combine that with all the other excuses/promises in his filter and...he's not looking groovy. When I've seen townGumshoe afk there are promises but also a lot of playful crap. See Dr Who, where he basically does nothing except post some nonsense about seeking companions, offer to trade role information when he's been afk forever, FAKE CLAIM A ROLE HE AIN'T GOT AND SOMEONE ELSE DO GOT, GET SHOT IN THE FACE FOR IT, etc. Even when he's barely playing, he APPEARS to still enjoy things and joke around. This game he's much more serious. That could be flavor, someone should look at more past games (I looked at a few, but other people need to look him up). But he's just all over the place with excuses and promises, and that's never gonna be happy happy - + Show Spoiler + On April 27 2014 12:45 gumshoe wrote: Hey guys ) : didn't realize this was going on till now ( busy with an sc 2 clan tourney ( that I won !!!!!!!!!) all day ) it's late now but I am actually really excited to play this game. Will catch up first thing tommorow. On April 28 2014 14:58 gumshoe wrote: Haro, its late but I owe town a few thoughts. I wont make anymore excuses, suffice to say been a spectacularly busy couple days. I'm not asking people to think I'm town because of my absence / : I can and have lurked as scum, all I ask is not to make anything of it, because it's literally just me being lazy and a jerk to the game, nothing else. Sigh so hard to get inspired for this game T_T Glad to see Oats flip though! Anything specific anyone wants me to look at? Or any questions for me to answer, I find my best odds of getting back into a game are usually specific missions XD I gave him some things to look at after this, he didn't respond to them.On May 04 2014 10:47 gumshoe wrote: I think slam is town and BH is mafia, so we should lynch BH. Also, "if BH is scum we can always back up". I dunno what that means at ALL. And it's weird to say that you think A is town, B is mafia, and drop a little "If B is mafia, we're okay, it's no biggie." OF COURSE IT'S NO BIGGIE IT'S HOW YOU THINK THINGS ARE SET UP.##Vote: Blazinghand Pretty sure slams town, he reads like slam, and if Bh is scum we can always back up so it's no biggie. Let the flames burn! On May 04 2014 12:29 gumshoe wrote: ALSO NOTE HOW THAT HAPPY FACE SMILEY IS ACTUALLY A FROWN WITH EYES BELOW IT. IS GUMSHOE SUBCONSCIOUSLY FROWNING!?!?!?!?Anytime!(in an ideal word) so yeah ceph and slams confirmed town, that's always nice. Also filter diving blazing again still isn't a bad idea, maybe he 180ed on someone he read as scummy/townie which might suggest he joined scum at some point. Ima probs do that tommorow. Night night town, gj ( : On May 07 2014 11:36 gumshoe wrote: I was gone, should be free, i THINK fool plays aggro (BUT NEVER SAYS WHETHER FOOL IS OR ISN'T THIS GAME OR THAT FOOL IS SCUMMY OR ANYTHING DEFINITIVE LIKE THAT) ---> there aren't better candidates. Hopefully it answers some questions, none of which Gumshoe is asking?Hey guys, family just left for Israel to pick up my cousins so should be free here on out. I wouldn't ever vote plam cause of how his pardon thing went down. Truly doubt he's scum. As for fool, haven't honestly read much of him, but from what I remember he seems to play a bit of an aggro style that made me think he was possibly the traitor a while back.That's impossible now of course, but it doesn't seem like there are any better candidates and hopefully this will answer some questions no matter how it goes. Vote Foolishness SERIOUSLY THOUGH PEOPLE SHOULD ACTUALLY READ HIS GAMES AND HAVE A LEGITIMATE DISCUSSION, EVEN IF EVERYONE COMES AWAY UNSURE. ALSO HE USES LOTS AND LOTS OF LITTLE QUESTIONS IN 1-2 TOWN GAMES I SAW, MANY OF HIS POSTS ARE JUST A LITTLE ?, WHETHER READ-RELATED OR NO. DOES HE DO THAT AS SCUM, IS IT JUST HOW GUMSHOE WORKS? IF IT'S JUST A TOWN THING, IS HE DOING IT HERE? I DON'T THINK THERE WERE AS MANY ?s HERE AS THERE WERE IN THE GAMES I SAW BUT IT WAS A TINY SAMPLE AND LYNCHING SOMEONE FOR NUMBER OF QUESTIONS IS DUMB. Whatever. Caller or Marv are my choices for the day. Marv's recent push makes me dislike, prplhz's filter is okay but his stance on oats is kinda meh and the whole wanting to lynch Foolishness thing is NOT a plus once BH flips traitor and not actual mafia. In terms of "THINGS THAT PEOPLE HAVE DONE", the prplhz/marv slot comes out scummier than the Caller slot for me. Mainly because Caller hasn't really done much besides fakenuke and then vote for NOT oats, NOT oats, and throwaway a vote on VA because he wouldn't claim or something dumb like that. Gumshoe also a possibility, just because. WELL THAT GOT NOWHERE. I'm out for a bit and none of this really went anywhere, gg me. Will check in in a couple hours. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 10 2014 00:32 justanothertownie wrote: Ace has been more chatty today, said some things. Seemed more sensible. The BIGGEST knock on Ace imo is just that ... in Nuclear Mini he was scumbuddies with oats, and when I got on oats's case about his reads that game and dunked him, Ace made some "Ooooooh, Oats just got dunked" comment.If someone wants to be a townhero - donate marv posts. We need him to post more regardless of his alignment. Marv, if you should get some be more careful. I know it is hard to be that restricted in playstyle and it sucks but believe me not being able to posts later on is more annoying then holding back a bit earlier. Austin, you rambled on about all those other question marks. What about Ace? Ace, your time is slowly running out. You did some things (good) but it is not enough. I will keep holding back most of my opinions for a few more hours for specific reasons (and because I have to travel) just so you know. TO SOME EXTENT, his comment after I think I won an argument there with Marv reminded me of that. Flashbacks. Otherwise, nothing has really swung me in any direction. Fool said this back on D2 The only things I have about Ace are: and that's mostly still true until just now, where he's maybe doing something or taking a position. Fool was not clearly town on him though, Ace was in the list of like 5-6 unknown/scum possibilities. Just that comment stuck with.1) I don't feel like he's hiding anything or pushing an agenda. 2) I feel that if he was mafia he would be trying harder to do something (yes I realize how silly this argument sounds). So...my thoughts on Ace are that there are finally things to pushpin into the Ace bulletin board, and for some reason I think that takes him off my list, and I'd rather wait and see if/how Marv flips, what Ace does in the next bit, etc. He was also kinda anti-foolishness lynch, like the way he interacted with me saying things that I was scummy on Fool for it felt ... I don't know. Either scum taking a great position to sort of sit back and critique a case, or legit town trying to figure out why I wanted this guy lynched, going through reasons. That bit is worth looking at much harder, but overall, Ace just has actual STUFF and he's not as ? for me. I don't feel like i KNOW his alignment, but I feel like there are things to work with. I'm about to head out to a bachelor party for the weekend, SURPRISE. That's one reason I've been ass at getting through everything I should be reading, and I will try to check phone tonight like 1-2 times, but otherwise, I'm gone til Sunday. Whatever. Keep talking about marv. I don't really think he's the lynch for today, would really rather weed out ?s. Caller or Palmar are probably the spots to look. I think marv is objectively more questionable, but if we keep pushing this down the road then we end up in LYLO with ?s, rather than scummy looking marv. VE also is somewhat distressed by that position from me. There's also just a tendency to jump on something new rather than really look at a pile of ?, and we gotta avoid that, and even if marv is the lynch, people need to talk about other crap and work on figuring other crap out. Someone(s) else, please look at Geript's filter. When I went and read to try and figure out maybe why he was shot, a lot of his reads were actually wonky. He was townie on oats, scummy on Fool, I THINK he was scummy on sandro. He was looking at Koshi, which is a reason to kill him IF Koshi was scum, but Koshi's shot response DOES look town, although he was a wonky oats-defender. If NOT because of Koshi, anyone spitball a particular thought as to why Geript was shot? He died N1. Probably 'portant. From what I saw, Palmar kept saying nice things about Geript, so it made me look slightly askance at Palmar, maybe seeing him as a threat. BUT IT'S ALL SPECULATION YET STILL IT WOULD BE NICE FOR PEOPLE TO READ THAT AND THINK ABOUT IT AND POST ABOUT IT AND DISCUSS IT YESYESYES. Yeah! Leaving computer and not placing a vote yet and not doing a good job of trying to lead town today. Boo me! ABBA would be sad. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Geript's filter WoS just rando-speculating about vigis and Hero, he should seriously just think through it and post some stuff in thread because it's dumb but I would appreciate it and it's not a stupid stupid question like I would sometimes ask, it's at least mostly legit. VA should talk about prplhz/marv some more, even if he wants to vote poofter VE is town. Don't lynch Gumshoe's past games. Does anyone else see a bunch of little ?s? Does he do that as scum as well? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Need 2-3 targets max, agreed upon, that you can actually get a majority for. I think gumshoe, maybe a caller or palmar or botg. Also, if you're going to shoot someone you should do it now or earlier. The posturing is meh, akd people seem to mainly talk AFTER shots, so some of whatever vali3 exists in shooting is lost. In a game with one scum kp though i atill don't like shooting. We get no flip, and any mis-shot is a whole cycle scum don't have to survive, sorta | ||
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austinmcc
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Again, will try and check back before deadline but unsre on sobriety and ability to operate phone. I want to let marv/vw simmer a bit but everyone should talk about it imo | ||
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On May 10 2014 12:38 gumshoe wrote: what does caybwvhavw to do with Cadillac? He sat he have rike. Even I'd you love wos and bastards we better and you shouldblocrb us and play si we don't lunch you.Been a long time since we started playing, you know that you were the first person to be really nice to me on tl? To find my jokes funny, my play impressive? Basterd is pretty much my favourite game I've ever played on this site (even though I lost) and thats pretty much because of how much fun I had playing with you ) : from figuring out why you fake claimed to trying to theory craft a way for us both to win, that game was far and away the most engaging for me, the most inspiring. I was pretty bitter when I lost, but was still pretty happy in the end that you at least came out alive. Town wanted to lynch you to buy time, but that didn't happen, I wouldn't let it. So at least I did that. I can never unlock the perfect ending to that perfect game, but we, together, can win this one, I just have to stop lurking and you have to calm down because together we can solve games Wos. Help me bring back that funny, smart, charismatic player that wouldn't give up on you then and wont now. What do you think of Vayne, do you think Mafia have vannilas? Cuz sometimes we want lynch you. What you think avou rkakrv and ve zpkz. Their filters jot makassice, and they Fo bs be issue tinmoerow, so marc and ve burg town Jr I ly only one? I'd just one, who Nd why? SIJR DRIBI ABF VIT TUV IT IS JICEBVUTB8T IS BABDD DIBR #O | ||
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VA, in the past you were super against lying as either alignment. I know I haven't really seen you play mafia, but was that a legit feeling before or are you happy to lie as mafia? | ||
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Was that untrue, or was hinting okay and not lying? | ||
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Real sorry all for my late play, I kept getting tied up IRL and just played really poorly after being super duper townie. The Foolishness lynch was bad, but worse was the day after and the no-lynch. I actually had about 2/3 of a post while out of town written on my phone, but it died as I was still typing it up. Never got to say anything final, although I think it was mostly anti-gumshoe and anti-marv. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I get that they can often be useless or clutter things up, or mafia can do whatever they want with dinky questions, but there are times where I feel that either (a) someone can be prodded to participate more/at all with easy questions or fun questions, as a means of getting them into the game and playing; or (b) there just needs to be a base of STUFF to get people going, and questions/answers can provide the base, even if it's all dumb. I've been trying lots more little questions lately, and i THINK it's been helping me personally, and i THINK it's been good for at least some other players in terms of finding someone not motivated to participate and drawing them in, but I'm not 100% on that so I'm kinda interested in this. I assume it's not quite as black/white as only asking questions to entrap/get something very specific that might be alignment-determinative. | ||
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austinmcc
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Yeah, it forces people to save posts. That's fine. I don't THINK i did a great job with posting giant walls to try and get normal amounts of text into less posts, i COULD have consolidate much much more. But everyone signed up for a game that said "THERE'S A POST RESTRICTION YA DING DONGS" and we got exactly what we signed up for. The only thing missing was using...post counts and post donations in analysis? People who used posts freely, started saving towards end, were willing to donate when needed, were all town I think? Some of that may just be that we had a very lurky/inactive scumteam for most of the time bar poofter, but I think that if we played more games with restrictions we'd see that there are some plusses, it's not just "haha you can't post any more." DEFINITELY made the game easier to follow and read. | ||
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