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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
FYI I haven't played with Eden or Sqrt (I think of him as "square" since it's a great deal nicer than squirt) but I observed a prior game or two with them, so if you want to bug me about them that's fine! ninjabunnies / mtamburini do you know anyone else besides each other in this game? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
@mtamburini: What do you think are the qualities of a good leader in mafia? @sqrt: When you said "last time" what were you referring to? (usually I can't remember anything like this, but I am pretty sure I know) | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On April 29 2014 11:12 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Oh, and I know akimo a bit as well. AKIMO | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
@sqrt: Yep! I thought so. I was just wondering why you were looking at that thread when this game started? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
@mysterymeat: I'm a little confused by your post, are you counterclaiming bunnies on being a girl? Remember there can be any number of the same role  | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
@Yell0w: What do you think of ninjabunnies voting for you? As in, do you see that as a more town response by her? A more mafia response by her? Neutral? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
1) Seriousness of Votes Eden has thrown around a few votes, I think he’s changed more than anyone else so far. That isn’t inherently scummy to me – voting for pressure is fine. However, it makes me confused why his initial reaction to ninjabunnies’ pressure on yell0w was to question ninjabunnies rather than yell0w. I was thinking about voting for yell0w to add to the pressure (incidentally, it seemed like tamburini may have been as well – I’m not sure, but he did vote for yell0w after ninjabunnies removed her vote to at least keep pressure on). Basically, my point here is this: Given Eden’s willingness to vote without too much basis (on sweetfrost as a lurker, on epishade for his comments on yell0w, on dfs as a lurker) I would have expected him to be more initially supportive of pressure on yell0w from ninjabunnies. 2) Eden’s interaction with ninjabunnies To go a little deeper on Eden/ninjabunnies, Eden essentially asks ninjabunnies twice what she learned from the pressure on yell0w. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?page=13#255 and http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?page=14#272). Initially, he seems to see bunnies as genuine, but also says she didn’t really answer his question – that seems a little weird. When bunnies responds again, I feel like she didn’t fully answer his question (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21278572) – Eden had asked what she learned from the post, and she responded that bunnies avoided the question. In response, Eden names bunnies as his top town (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21278604) The point here is this: Eden asks ninjabunnies some questions regarding her pressure on yell0w. When ninjabunnies doesn’t fully respond, Eden calls her genuine (though he notes she didn't respond). When she doesn’t fully respond again, Eden calls ninjabunnies his top town. This feels weird because if I ask someone a question and they don’t respond I get interested. If I ask again and they don’t respond, I get suspicious. So, Eden's response to ninjabunnies felt off to me. -- I would especially like to know thoughts on these points from the players who just recently started posting. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
I don't put much weight on his initial post, but there's a few followups that were odd to me. (1) Discussing Bunnies After bunnies puts some pressure on him, yell0w posts this: On April 29 2014 11:46 Yell0w wrote: @bunnies: Why would I need luck? Are you that convinced I'm mafia? Or is it that you just want to lynch me anyways for other reasons? Like, you actually are mafia and you're just jumping on any reason to lynch a town? He is sort of throwing around some ideas and suggests bunnies could be mafia. So, I asked him a question a little more directly on her pressure and his response was a lot more cagey: On April 29 2014 11:55 Yell0w wrote: I don't really know, she has a reasoning for it, she played with people who claimed mafia like that and ended up actually being mafia, but obviously it's flawed logic and anecdotal evidence, it's not because someone did it that me making a joke about being mafia means I'm mafia. But that fact that she has that reason makes me think she's not doing it as a mafia play, but obviously she might just have come up with it to make it seems that way, so I don't know. These posts have some consistency - neither seem sure what ninjabunnies' motives are. But, I feel like yell0w's first post reads as far more suspicious/unsure of ninjabunnies, whereas the second seems to be neutral/unsure. --- On April 29 2014 23:21 Sweetfrost wrote: I must agree that Yell0ws joking claims makes him a prime suspect. I feel he tries way to hard to convince everyone that he's not scum with his joking and sarcastic remarks. @Sweetfrost: How do you think yell0w viewed the points raised on him by ninjabunnies? Which comments do you feel are joking/sarcasting? Why do you think him joking around is indicative of him being mafia? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
 Basically the second point on yellow is just that it seems weird he has cleared both bunnies when he initially was not sure how to read the pressure on him. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
I'll add this since we have players that are new or new to forum mafia. If there are masons, consider including some code that indicates who your mason partner is. It shouldn't be clearly detected, but should be fairly straightforward if it is pointed out. That way if one of you dies, the other can point to it if necessary to prove they are your mason teammate. For example, if I was mason with sqrt, I might write something like this into a random post I made and tell him about it: As sqrt wrote, mtamburini likely isn't amazing mafia... essentially, someone knows xyzxxzyzxyzxy. If you look at all the second letters, it spells sqrt is mason... if I was mason with sqrt and I was killed/lynched, sqrt can point to this post to semi-confirm he is my mason partner. This isn't the kind of trick you can do that easily in live/video mafia, so I wanted to bring it up in case it didn't occur to masons (if they are in the game). | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
We don't know how many mafia there are. In 13 player games, my guess would be 3 mafia, maybe also a serial killer. This is just based on knowing a popular 13-player setups is C9++ (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9%2B%2B#Setup_Determination) typically has 3 mafia. There's no certainty, though, since our setup is different (there's no medic/doctor, for instance). 2 mafia seems too few, though, so I would say 3>4>2. We can make some better guesses after n1 - based on the number of kills it can indicate if there's a vigilante or serial killer. You haven't talked much in thread yet, so here's a few questions: - Any thoughts on sweetfrost at this point in the game? - What is your current position on yell0w? Also, do you feel joking is indicative of being scum? Why? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
I can try to reread the last game (probably not until this evening, though) and see what I think on the same point. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
@Sqrt: Can you talk a little on why you feel epishade is clear? I don't feel like you seem to have commented on him at all aside from mentioning he looked through prior games. I do feel that point is towny so I agree with you somewhat there. But, what did you think about epishade's interactions with yell0w/bunnies? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On April 30 2014 02:39 Yell0w wrote: And about Eden, I was asked, though I was planning on talking about it a little bit anyways, he was actually the person I thought was the most suspicious last night, I just don't think his behavior made sense. I didn't have time to analyse it fully though and I will probably talk about it some more, but I am glad someone brought it up. If you are town make sure you follow through with this. In your filter I don't see Eden mentioned at all until this post, so if you felt he was suspicious you haven't shown it so far. I do think mtamburini may be overstating it a little with what he said here: On April 30 2014 00:17 mtamburini wrote: Your grasping so hard right now at things to take pressure off yourself and onto someone else for your slip ups it's laughable. But I think it is reasonable to think you want to shift things to Eden. I'll be out for a few hours :x | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
 @27ninjabunnies on Eden (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?page=20#393) This isn't too important but it should be a quick clarification so I'd appreciate it if you did. Eden says you didn't fully answer his question ("What was your reaction test, and what did it teach you about the game state?") + Show Spoiler + On April 29 2014 11:55 Eden1892 wrote: That you're new to forum mafia and have a chip on your shoulder. This doesn't tell me anything about either of your alignments. You seem genuine enough so far, so I suppose it's not all bad. But you didn't really answer my question. Maybe we're not referring to the same thing. What was your reaction test, and what did it teach you about the game state? I think these are the only posts you made between Eden raising the point (that you didn't answer his question) and him giving you a townread: (1) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?page=14#277 (2) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?page=14#280 (3) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?page=15#283 I think these posts answered the first part (what was your reaction test?). I don't feel you answered the second part (what did it teach you about the game state?). If you did, could you just quote it and bold the language for me? As an aside, I think your post @Epishade was directed to Epishade, not Eden as you said here (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?page=20#393) unless I'm misunderstanding... thew post begins with you answering Epishade's scumread. Were you referring to another post? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
@ninjabunnies re: Eden (pt 2) I did find the post where you were speaking to Epishade but meant to write to Eden. But, that isn't relevant to me because you made that post after Eden said you were his top town. @sqrt re: number of mafia Yeah, I can’t be certain but I think it’s a fair assumption to imagine there’s likely 3- 4 mafia. Your newbie game hosted by Balla was 9 players (2 mafia), but this is 13 players. With more town, you’ll (usually) see more scum to keep the game balanced. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
I feel the core of suspicion on mtamburini is that he voted for yell0w after ninjabunnies moved off of him. From my point of view, that action is not scummy for these reasons: (1) I think ninjabunnies’ push on yell0w was fine. I mean, I wasn’t about to lynch yell0w for those early posts, but the inconsistency (even if it was a joke) was a fine thing to push him on. (2) tamburini voted for yell0w after bunnies moved her vote off of him. To me, this doesn’t really seem like a mafia play. I usually think scum would want to join a growing lynch to give it support, but here tamburini seems to want to re-open a case that doesn’t seem to have support. This doesn’t feel scummy to me. (3) I think tamburini had a fine reason to bring new pressure to yell0w. I don’t feel like yell0w asking “What was the ideal response?” is strongly scum indicative, but again, it’s something I feel pressure. That said, I need more from mtamburini's - his posts so far have been too focused on yell0w. If he wants to push a lynch, that’s fine, but I want to see some interactions with other players. If yell0w isn't the lynch, it'll be tough to draw new conclusions on mtamburini because he hasn't weighed in on some of the other players. @mtamburini: Please comment on Eden. In particular, could you discuss Eden’s case on yell0w? Also, is there anything about the timing of Eden's case on yell0w that strikes you as unusual? (I haven't reread enough to decide for sure whether there is, but I think there might be) | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On April 30 2014 13:47 27ninjabunnies wrote: @ Amiko As for my @Epishade post, it was directed to eden, but I messed up the names. Eden asked this And my response was this As for not answering the game state question, thank you for pointing that out, I actually didnt answer this. I must have looked over that question focusing on other things. I apologize. But as the game state has changed since then, imo, I shall nt revisit that, but I can elaborate on the game state now. Ok let me explain this better. Eden reads you as his top town on page 15 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447955-newbie-mini-mafia-lv?page=15#284). The post you are referring to is on page 17. So, when Eden read you as his top town, he didn't have that answer from you yet. When he read you as his top town, he should have still thought you had not answered his question. | ||
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