Also I don't think you understand scum tehpoofer, they are craven, and would never in a million years step up to defend such a weak buddy if so many townies were on him, I can't honestly bilieve you'd think that, so my guess is your just scared that it'll be your head on the block if not mderns.
On April 02 2014 14:14 Tehpoofter wrote: @gumshoe that being said as for scum the biggest one for me is prplhz I said earlier in a post he said he wants people to just focus on the people in their groups as thats their best chance of hitting mafia. Statistically it is the best chance but people should read everyone. I also really dislike the post where he claims hes being ignored to me thats like he wants to be read as town for posting and is mad his work is going to waste.
Earlier you expressed doubt in Geript as well, whose most likely scum in that cell?
This is a few choice qoutes from Rayn's play in witchcraft 2, where he orchestrated a mislynch on me day 1.
Looking the playerlist you are the guy i can work with the best. I can't read OO for shit. I hope Cephiro does not do dumb stuff like he did in Hogwarts. Lurk Sylencia = lynch, otherwise idk Sn0dude played really well in Hogwarts, i except that from him here aswell. gumshoe .... thrawn i misread on Desert until he actually started making sense, hope he does that too here Umasi was good in some game as town i think? Says nothing = lynch Onegu is tricky, damn he was tricky in Hogwarts. A guy to read closely. ET is town or scum at last N1, based purely on Hogwarts. hzflank i can read. Vanesco noob, no idea. contribute or die.
and yeah, that's it.
After second reading gumshoe's big post was really bad and could have been all said in 10 words. Apparently that was a fake post too..
I am also trying to be not pissed off with gumshoe but it's really hard..
Probably someone from gumshoe/Umasi/Onegu depending on what happens tomorrow. thrawn stared making sense.
##Vote: gumshoe just because i do not like anything he has said this game.
bh no, i do not remember his play from Basterd. I remember he claimed on N1 but i don't even remember why. After that he has been modkilled for inactivity or soht because i accidently outed him as blue (in a game i somehow thought everyone was blue) while he did pretty much nothing. 50% of my case on him is that i want him to actually say something uselful and 50% is that what he has said is either faked for no reason or useless contributions or something that makes no sense to me.
Pretty harsh on me in general, take a good look at that last qoute, notice how Rayn believes my meta works against me there? Next Compare all those lines to these ones that make up Rayn's current stance on me.
I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not.
I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not?
~rayn
I am trying so hard to think about this post and what the fuck is the point of all this. gumshoe what's the point of all this? On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote: I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / :
I don't believe this. I don't believe this for one second.
So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game
That last quote here also has my meta working against me and in general theres an overall tone of disdain once again in Rayn's voice, just like in Witchcraft, another funny thing is that I actually lied in witchcraft as well to try and bait scum, just like I did this game. Rayn knows exactly what I'm capable of and how to exploit that and of course he hammers me for it in this game just like hes done before.
Witch
gumshoe's contributions in Basterd have a clear point, are transparent and every time they reach to a hard conclusion. None of those things happen in this game and half of his filter anyways is useless because it's about fake case that either serves no purpose if he is town or he just fucked up and is making stuff up if he is scum.
Cell
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
Next up, look at this recent game where were both town for comparison.
gumshoe i am interested. Do you think Palmar is mafia?
see gumshoe here is my problem. I am a player who asks questions, obviously. When i ask questions, assuming i am not questioning something i do not understand, there are expected answers: 1) scummy type of answer, or townie type of answer, or both 2) answer i did not expect which leads to further investigation
Now i don't always expect people to understand why i do ask questions i do in the first place. That would defeat the purpose of my play in total. If you can tell what my question is going to achieve you know (as mafia) how you should be answering it. Right?
So, my question to you is: I don't understand why do you assume Palmar should assume what i am thinking and why i ask what i do. How do you suggest town!Palmar should read me if he is not "allowed" to figure out my motives behind my posts? Or do you think it's reasonable to assume Palmar should have realized what i was after? Did you know what i expected town!gumshoe to answer when i asked you my question?
I think the confusing part here is that gumshoe assumes/says Palmar thought i was scummy for my question and therefore questioned me. Not that Palmar was trying to get a read on me.
gumshoe how do you ended up to this conclusion in the first place?
Anyways that smiley makes me see red every time i see it, except for when gumshoe does it. Just because gumshoe is so adorable.
I have been really really sure since i started telling him why i thought his case on Palmar was dumb and started explaining him what Palmar meant with his posts.
Take note of the last quote, he thinks I'm town here because of dumb stubborn play, whats different this game Rayn? Also the tone, while still inquisitive, is much lighter than that of the excerpts from the first two sets listed.
Scum like sure things, Rayn has had success beating me straight up before, he feels confident he can do it again. A good example of this kind of behaviour in scum is how Suki went after cav in cultured the same way she did in the first newbie game they played together. The prefer to tackle targets who they can beat, thats why from the get go Rayn has been spinning everything I say as scummy, watch how he twists what I say and do over and over again.
HE WANTS TO FUCKING LYNCH TOWNIES!! SERIOUSLY GUMSHOE????
Here he attacks me for defending "confirmed scum" geript, of course Geript is not 100 percent scum and Rayn admits as much himself later on here,
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"?
What I mean here is that I suspect hes scum, therefore why do I need to tell him anything that would worsen my odds of catching him. Of course he zeros in on the "you dont owe me anything" part because thats what his agenda calls for, he will tear apart all my statements and alter to them just to make me look bad.
Heres another example of Rayns twister skills.
gumshoe which players from the playerlist would you consider unreadable?
After I answer him honestly, Rayn comes back with this.
So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game (where he was town) half past D1. I also found this:
Cause I'm not there yet : P and I disagree, bieng readable is a big part of bieng town, if you make your self unreadable you can't be trusted. I'm not going to argue with you about this because it's retarded to think otherwise.
To adress the bolded first, he completley disregards cultured mafia, the game where Holy bussed his team and completley blind sided me/town, I had this much to say to Holy afterwards
cant bilieve you massacred your team like that, dont listen to what anyone says (not that you would) that takes 3 testicles and no heart, wp sir. At the end of day I was willing to lynch every other person in the game (myself included probally) before you, and that sentiment carried through all the way to lylo. Hope we can play more games like this in the future ( :
Of course, Rayn pretends this game never happens because it doesn't fit his narrative, and thats what hes doing guys, hes crafting a narrative, telling us all a bedtime story so he can slit our throats and steal our shit while we sleep.
As for his point about me contradicting myself, first of all let me ask you, does inconsistency a scum make? No, motive and/or a lack of effort do and my actions suggest neither (I have contributed since games start and made suggestions that scum would pale at the mere thought of uttering). That said, hes twisting the truth here yet again.
"Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play.
I care what town thinks of me and I'm trying to prove my alignment through contribution, I do not however give a shit what my top scum read thinks and I will lie all day to him until he flips red or reasonably proves himself to be green. He twists this into me not caring about what town thinks as a whole, when in reality anyone who actually reads what I'm saying for themselves can pretty much tell that my words are directed at Rayn and Rayn alone.
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end.
gumshoe: "The most daming thing is that rayn thinks I am scum while Steveling has yet to open his mouth, rayn and I should be 50/50 to each other, him pushing me as scum is scummy. But my conclusion is that rayn is 90% scum."
-ok then gumshoe-
I have considered that steve is scum at every point in this game, just because I made a play to try to read you early on doesn't mean I was 100 percent sure your scum out of the gates. In fact I backed off after your answer because it was fine. You came back after me because you were so sure my lie made me scum, even though you know I bait as town. I was just figuring out your alignment, like you should be doing instead of blindly considering me scum before Steve talks. Go ahead and call me a hypocrite but I have expressed fear that he might be scum throughout every point of this game, even at the time of my big post I said you were 90 percent, not 100.
Also I love how your team keeps poking away at this one bit because you can't deny your playing exactly the same as witchcraft. How is this game different Rayn? How are you scum reading me here for the same play you'd town read me in any other game? How does a mderg, gumshoe scum team fit? Do you honestly think mderg is scum when half the active players called him red? Even though we know he's capable of shit play and getting jumped for it?
Also have you rescinded you ez pz scum read on me? Because right now I'm fairly certain your scum, but no I'm not completely sure and have never been, because I'm town. Show me evidence instead of generically calling me a hypocrite, you will not find anything as damning as "ezpz confirmed scum" your point is mute rayn / : what bullshit do you offer next?
Also gonna say this, Mderg is 100 percent town, I don't like the other people in his group, his play is in line with what I imagine of him as town and theres been too much gleeful drive on him. Even if I'm scum, he's town, consider his alignment a gift regardless of mine.
On April 02 2014 12:22 Balla24 wrote: Gumshoe that case is all over the place :/ it's hard to follow (what alignments was rayn in these quotes?) but on the ending:
On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote: Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end.
How can you say this is the most damning bit of all yet you literally just did the same thing and went 90% scum on rayn when Steveling has still "yet to open his mouth"?
On April 02 2014 10:25 Holyflare wrote: Regardless of the poofter read, mderg is just stating things and asking for explanation rather than pointing out and elaborating his own opinions and forming reads.
I noticed this too. I asked Koshi what does he think of this mderg guy and he said it seemed strage how he came in straight up defending the one dude in our group. Too crazy that he instant defended a scumbuddy out of nowhere so if mderg guy ends up being scum gumshoe can die in a fire.
It all fits!
~rayn
It all fits huh?
I attacked Steveling at the start to bait you, Mderg went in to defend Steveling against me.
I´m not Rayn... but Steveling really likes to watch champions league and I know it can be taxing to watch close and exciting games. So there´s probably not much to tell from this.
Why would my scum buddy come in to disagree with me? Wouldnt mderg bieng scum implicate Steveling, not me?
And why would I press him back?
Whats your relation to Steveling, whats your general impression of his play and why did you feel the need to answer a question intended for someone else. Do you think Rayn is scum?
How does any of this fit? Do you think me and mderg are scum together?
What was your bait supposed to accomplish gumshoe? Did you catch rayn? I
Please explain what your bait accomplished gumshoe. I don't see the benefit. All I see is you making a bullshit post and mderg disgreeing with it in quit a natural manner. Also if mderg is scum it says nothing about Steveling's alignment.
Does every play ever work? No, it didn't and they don't. I wanted to see if he'd jump on Steve for something small, he didn't, I moved on, thats literally it. Rayn knows I do this as town, he knows I play this way, he always green reads me when were together for doing shit like this. Yet this game everything I say is scummy BECAUSE IT HAS TO BE, Rayn has not liked a single thing I said because he literally can't.
On April 02 2014 21:34 Palmar wrote: If you think there's a parallel between 5 pages in 3 hours and 5 pages in 24 hours you're insane rayn. There is much more time to actually re-read and form opinions which is exactly what HF is accusing mderg of not doing.
But okay, as I pointed out even if HF's meta is faulty no one else noticed it so either everyone is mafia or it's a reasonable mistake to make.
Do you believe mderg used more than max 2 hours in those games to play the game on D1? If you don't, then my point stands. He was in thread for 2 hours in this game and failed to make a single conclusion.
On April 02 2014 12:22 Balla24 wrote: Gumshoe that case is all over the place :/ it's hard to follow (what alignments was rayn in these quotes?) but on the ending:
On April 02 2014 12:13 gumshoe wrote: Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end.
How can you say this is the most damning bit of all yet you literally just did the same thing and went 90% scum on rayn when Steveling has still "yet to open his mouth"?
This is the best post in the thread so far.
On April 02 2014 12:24 gumshoe wrote:
On April 02 2014 10:29 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
On April 02 2014 10:25 Holyflare wrote: Regardless of the poofter read, mderg is just stating things and asking for explanation rather than pointing out and elaborating his own opinions and forming reads.
I noticed this too. I asked Koshi what does he think of this mderg guy and he said it seemed strage how he came in straight up defending the one dude in our group. Too crazy that he instant defended a scumbuddy out of nowhere so if mderg guy ends up being scum gumshoe can die in a fire.
It all fits!
~rayn
It all fits huh?
I attacked Steveling at the start to bait you, Mderg went in to defend Steveling against me.
I´m not Rayn... but Steveling really likes to watch champions league and I know it can be taxing to watch close and exciting games. So there´s probably not much to tell from this.
Why would my scum buddy come in to disagree with me? Wouldnt mderg bieng scum implicate Steveling, not me?
And why would I press him back?
Whats your relation to Steveling, whats your general impression of his play and why did you feel the need to answer a question intended for someone else. Do you think Rayn is scum?
How does any of this fit? Do you think me and mderg are scum together?
What was your bait supposed to accomplish gumshoe? Did you catch rayn? I
Please explain what your bait accomplished gumshoe. I don't see the benefit. All I see is you making a bullshit post and mderg disgreeing with it in quit a natural manner. Also if mderg is scum it says nothing about Steveling's alignment.
Does every play ever work? No, it didn't and they don't. I wanted to see if he'd jump on Steve for something small, he didn't, I moved on, thats literally it. Rayn knows I do this as town, he knows I play this way, he always green reads me when were together for doing shit like this. Yet this game everything I say is scummy BECAUSE IT HAS TO BE, Rayn has not liked a single thing I said because he literally can't.
literally can't? Because?
Because you need to get me or Steve lynched, Steve wasn't around and you cant bank on wether or not you can make his play out to be scummy. But you pretty much know for a fact that you can frame me ( : you've done it before in the exact same manner. Thats why every time you talk about me its like a tidal wave of confirmation bias, not a tide that rises and falls with evidence. From your view, you can't afford giving me a single townie point because it does nothing but weaken your odds of winning. Even though town Rayn would just give me the lot of them this game : P
On April 02 2014 21:27 Holyflare wrote: Gumshoe thought rayn was scum in heavyweight so i take everything he says about rayn with a pinch of salt.
This game is completely different, Rayn in my eyes is literally 50/50 on scum and I read steve as town from his new posts. I also realized Rayn was town that game of my own accord(heavy that is). If you wanna call me scum, do so, but please don't shit on my reads by using a totally different game for reference.
On April 02 2014 21:10 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Palmar you are wrong. You accusation is wrong. Can you see why?
~rayn
No, but do explain.
Look at the games when mderg starts posting. There is actually two games of his:
Werewolves Invade Teamliquid II (Town): at the time mderg starts posting there is content of 5 pages (game starts at page 5 - mderg's post is on page 10).
Normal Mini Mafia I (Town): at the time mderg starts posting there is content of 2 pages (game starts at page 4 - mderg first post on page 6).
Then there is this game. There is content of 2 pages when mderg starts posting, a lot more when he stops. I guarantee you in this game, when mderg leaves the thread there is more content and scumreads than in both of those games. There are things to discuss (mainly getmoripts reads on me, prpl, my scumreads, etc).
In both of those earlier games mderg jumps straight to important content -> starts calling people out etc when there is something to work with!!. In this game he does not, he comments on irrelevant things while there is content in thread. The point is not if the game is 24h into the game or 1000h into the game. The point is in all of these three games there is content to comment on, mderg does it in BOTH of his earlier town games, in this game he does not do it.
Therefore Holyflare's meta read is not bullshit. I agree it does not make mderg 100% mafia because the sample size is small and there is no mafia sample. But the fact is mderg IS playing differently than his earlier town games. He is more passive and only comments on non-alignment indicative stuff. Also i know Holyflare does these reads as town. It does not make him mafia, it's not even scummy for him. There is no reason for Holyflare to make a bullshit meta read as scum. Even if HF is scum there is proof behind the read because he does not make shit up. He's too good for that.
And i agree with HF's statements on mderg this game.
He is commenting on useless stuff while there is real content to comment on. That's a fact. It's also a fact that in earlier games he did not comment on useless stuff once there was content in thread. Instead he tried to form reads and called people out.
~rayn
We were all commenting on random stuff at that time pretty much because this a setup we've never played before -_- Rayn, know why your scum? Because everything people say/do just reaffirms your existing biases / : I doubt will see you change your mind once this game.
This is a few choice qoutes from Rayn's play in witchcraft 2, where he orchestrated a mislynch on me day 1.
Looking the playerlist you are the guy i can work with the best. I can't read OO for shit. I hope Cephiro does not do dumb stuff like he did in Hogwarts. Lurk Sylencia = lynch, otherwise idk Sn0dude played really well in Hogwarts, i except that from him here aswell. gumshoe .... thrawn i misread on Desert until he actually started making sense, hope he does that too here Umasi was good in some game as town i think? Says nothing = lynch Onegu is tricky, damn he was tricky in Hogwarts. A guy to read closely. ET is town or scum at last N1, based purely on Hogwarts. hzflank i can read. Vanesco noob, no idea. contribute or die.
and yeah, that's it.
After second reading gumshoe's big post was really bad and could have been all said in 10 words. Apparently that was a fake post too..
I am also trying to be not pissed off with gumshoe but it's really hard..
Probably someone from gumshoe/Umasi/Onegu depending on what happens tomorrow. thrawn stared making sense.
##Vote: gumshoe just because i do not like anything he has said this game.
bh no, i do not remember his play from Basterd. I remember he claimed on N1 but i don't even remember why. After that he has been modkilled for inactivity or soht because i accidently outed him as blue (in a game i somehow thought everyone was blue) while he did pretty much nothing. 50% of my case on him is that i want him to actually say something uselful and 50% is that what he has said is either faked for no reason or useless contributions or something that makes no sense to me.
Pretty harsh on me in general, take a good look at that last qoute, notice how Rayn believes my meta works against me there? Next Compare all those lines to these ones that make up Rayn's current stance on me.
I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not.
I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not?
~rayn
I am trying so hard to think about this post and what the fuck is the point of all this. gumshoe what's the point of all this? On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote: I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / :
I don't believe this. I don't believe this for one second.
So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game
That last quote here also has my meta working against me and in general theres an overall tone of disdain once again in Rayn's voice, just like in Witchcraft, another funny thing is that I actually lied in witchcraft as well to try and bait scum, just like I did this game. Rayn knows exactly what I'm capable of and how to exploit that and of course he hammers me for it in this game just like hes done before.
Witch
gumshoe's contributions in Basterd have a clear point, are transparent and every time they reach to a hard conclusion. None of those things happen in this game and half of his filter anyways is useless because it's about fake case that either serves no purpose if he is town or he just fucked up and is making stuff up if he is scum.
Cell
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
Next up, look at this recent game where were both town for comparison.
gumshoe i am interested. Do you think Palmar is mafia?
see gumshoe here is my problem. I am a player who asks questions, obviously. When i ask questions, assuming i am not questioning something i do not understand, there are expected answers: 1) scummy type of answer, or townie type of answer, or both 2) answer i did not expect which leads to further investigation
Now i don't always expect people to understand why i do ask questions i do in the first place. That would defeat the purpose of my play in total. If you can tell what my question is going to achieve you know (as mafia) how you should be answering it. Right?
So, my question to you is: I don't understand why do you assume Palmar should assume what i am thinking and why i ask what i do. How do you suggest town!Palmar should read me if he is not "allowed" to figure out my motives behind my posts? Or do you think it's reasonable to assume Palmar should have realized what i was after? Did you know what i expected town!gumshoe to answer when i asked you my question?
I think the confusing part here is that gumshoe assumes/says Palmar thought i was scummy for my question and therefore questioned me. Not that Palmar was trying to get a read on me.
gumshoe how do you ended up to this conclusion in the first place?
Anyways that smiley makes me see red every time i see it, except for when gumshoe does it. Just because gumshoe is so adorable.
I have been really really sure since i started telling him why i thought his case on Palmar was dumb and started explaining him what Palmar meant with his posts.
Take note of the last quote, he thinks I'm town here because of dumb stubborn play, whats different this game Rayn? Also the tone, while still inquisitive, is much lighter than that of the excerpts from the first two sets listed.
Scum like sure things, Rayn has had success beating me straight up before, he feels confident he can do it again. A good example of this kind of behaviour in scum is how Suki went after cav in cultured the same way she did in the first newbie game they played together. The prefer to tackle targets who they can beat, thats why from the get go Rayn has been spinning everything I say as scummy, watch how he twists what I say and do over and over again.
HE WANTS TO FUCKING LYNCH TOWNIES!! SERIOUSLY GUMSHOE????
Here he attacks me for defending "confirmed scum" geript, of course Geript is not 100 percent scum and Rayn admits as much himself later on here,
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"?
What I mean here is that I suspect hes scum, therefore why do I need to tell him anything that would worsen my odds of catching him. Of course he zeros in on the "you dont owe me anything" part because thats what his agenda calls for, he will tear apart all my statements and alter to them just to make me look bad.
Heres another example of Rayns twister skills.
gumshoe which players from the playerlist would you consider unreadable?
After I answer him honestly, Rayn comes back with this.
So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game (where he was town) half past D1. I also found this:
Cause I'm not there yet : P and I disagree, bieng readable is a big part of bieng town, if you make your self unreadable you can't be trusted. I'm not going to argue with you about this because it's retarded to think otherwise.
To adress the bolded first, he completley disregards cultured mafia, the game where Holy bussed his team and completley blind sided me/town, I had this much to say to Holy afterwards
cant bilieve you massacred your team like that, dont listen to what anyone says (not that you would) that takes 3 testicles and no heart, wp sir. At the end of day I was willing to lynch every other person in the game (myself included probally) before you, and that sentiment carried through all the way to lylo. Hope we can play more games like this in the future ( :
Of course, Rayn pretends this game never happens because it doesn't fit his narrative, and thats what hes doing guys, hes crafting a narrative, telling us all a bedtime story so he can slit our throats and steal our shit while we sleep.
As for his point about me contradicting myself, first of all let me ask you, does inconsistency a scum make? No, motive and/or a lack of effort do and my actions suggest neither (I have contributed since games start and made suggestions that scum would pale at the mere thought of uttering). That said, hes twisting the truth here yet again.
"Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play.
I care what town thinks of me and I'm trying to prove my alignment through contribution, I do not however give a shit what my top scum read thinks and I will lie all day to him until he flips red or reasonably proves himself to be green. He twists this into me not caring about what town thinks as a whole, when in reality anyone who actually reads what I'm saying for themselves can pretty much tell that my words are directed at Rayn and Rayn alone.
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum. On paper I have a 50 percent chance of bieng scum to him, as he does to me, compare the two of our attempts at reading each other and see whose actually trying to figure out the others alignment and whose considering the possibility that Steveling might be the actual scummer. In both cases, that person is me, I am town, Rayn is 90 percent scum and steveling is 10 percent scum. The end.
gumshoe: "The most daming thing is that rayn thinks I am scum while Steveling has yet to open his mouth, rayn and I should be 50/50 to each other, him pushing me as scum is scummy. But my conclusion is that rayn is 90% scum."
-ok then gumshoe-
I have considered that steve is scum at every point in this game, just because I made a play to try to read you early on doesn't mean I was 100 percent sure your scum out of the gates. In fact I backed off after your answer because it was fine. You came back after me because you were so sure my lie made me scum, even though you know I bait as town. I was just figuring out your alignment, like you should be doing instead of blindly considering me scum before Steve talks. Go ahead and call me a hypocrite but I have expressed fear that he might be scum throughout every point of this game, even at the time of my big post I said you were 90 percent, not 100.
Also I love how your team keeps poking away at this one bit because you can't deny your playing exactly the same as witchcraft. How is this game different Rayn? How are you scum reading me here for the same play you'd town read me in any other game? How does a mderg, gumshoe scum team fit? Do you honestly think mderg is scum when half the active players called him red? Even though we know he's capable of shit play and getting jumped for it?
Also have you rescinded you ez pz scum read on me? Because right now I'm fairly certain your scum, but no I'm not completely sure and have never been, because I'm town. Show me evidence instead of generically calling me a hypocrite, you will not find anything as damning as "ezpz confirmed scum" your point is mute rayn / : what bullshit do you offer next?
Also gonna say this, Mderg is 100 percent town, I don't like the other people in his group, his play is in line with what I imagine of him as town and theres been too much gleeful drive on him. Even if I'm scum, he's town, consider his alignment a gift regardless of mine.
fairly certain I am scum. Why? Explain pls.
In witch, everything your scum reads said reaffirmed your biases, it's the same here.
In that game, you found my fake post was scummy just like here
In that game, you thought my meta worked against me just like here,
In that game, everything I said convinced you that I was more scum.
That, and your so certain even before steve talks.
I have been in this situation before Rayn / : the similarity is uncanny.
On April 02 2014 21:27 Holyflare wrote: Gumshoe thought rayn was scum in heavyweight so i take everything he says about rayn with a pinch of salt.
This game is completely different, Rayn in my eyes is literally 50/50 on scum and I read steve as town from his new posts. I also realized Rayn was town that game of my own accord(heavy that is). If you wanna call me scum, do so, but please don't shit on my reads by using a totally different game for reference.
You used culture to call me scummy in this game to discredit me and then tell me not to shit on your reads? Isn't that what i should be doing as scum?
You used a meta on rayn that didn't make sense to call him scum this game too whereas i don't think he is scum. Why does he NEED to call you anything so early into the game when he can be pointing out scum in other groups and coming back to you or steve later to push a mislynch?
Umm, are you saying your scum? Did you get the impression I thought you were town from this post? If your scum sure, call my reads shitty all you like, I am now officially calling you out for doing that in case you didn't catch that the first time.
As for Rayn, in scums eyes they do feel like they need to attack those in their cell, because ultimately the most important thing is winning their group, the earlier they can do that the better.
You very talented Rayn, too bad your scum. Let me give my side once and for all
Gum baits Rayn cause HE DOESNT KNOW HIS ALIGNMENT BECAUSE HES TOWN FIGURING OUT THE GAME. Findings are inconclusive, Gum goes to talk to other people, Rayn attacks Gum for lying, Gum tells Rayn he has no reason to be completely transparent with a likely scum read. Rayn twists this into Gum hates town and calls him super duper mega confirmed scum. Gum is suspicious of how certain he is before hearing steve talk, gum realizes Rayn is accusing him the same way as witchcraft. Gum goes after him / :
On April 02 2014 21:27 Holyflare wrote: Gumshoe thought rayn was scum in heavyweight so i take everything he says about rayn with a pinch of salt.
This game is completely different, Rayn in my eyes is literally 50/50 on scum and I read steve as town from his new posts. I also realized Rayn was town that game of my own accord(heavy that is). If you wanna call me scum, do so, but please don't shit on my reads by using a totally different game for reference.
You used culture to call me scummy in this game to discredit me and then tell me not to shit on your reads? Isn't that what i should be doing as scum?
You used a meta on rayn that didn't make sense to call him scum this game too whereas i don't think he is scum. Why does he NEED to call you anything so early into the game when he can be pointing out scum in other groups and coming back to you or steve later to push a mislynch?
Umm, are you saying your scum? Did you get the impression I thought you were town from this post? If your scum sure, call my reads shitty all you like, I am now officially calling you out for doing that in case you didn't catch that the first time.
As for Rayn, in scums eyes they do feel like they need to attack those in their cell, because ultimately the most important thing is winning their group, the earlier they can do that the better.
This is a completely invalid point because the same applies to townies too.
Thats debatable, but even then if you agree scum feel that way it still serves to invalidate Holy's point that scum Rayn would avoid his cell, which is utterly idiotic.
On April 02 2014 22:18 raynpelikonoshi wrote: The fact that you cannot possibly believe the fucking shit that spews out of your mouth. Therefore you cannot be town.
~rayn
Oh wait nm you did post XD my bad. You always town read me for ridicules shit, now that it's not convenient for you I'm obs scum right?
Also explain to me what I shouldn't believe? That I find the way your pushing me familiar to a game where you played exactly the same, or that I think your scum because you were so certain of me before hearing steve out? Call it flawed f you like, but it doesn't make me scum / :
On April 02 2014 22:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote: The fact that me calling you out for lying in a situation you should not lie as town is not scummy and you paint it out to be.
~rayn
You paint everything I say is as scummy. Also, how is baiting for information scummy? Especially when I don't get anything out of it, why do it in the first play as scum if not to make up some bullshit reason your response is scummy like you constantly do to me?
On April 02 2014 18:15 Steveling wrote: I'm now filtering gumshoe, will be posting one liners as I'm reading through it.
Hahahaha, gum <3333, that short description of me you made, haha, that's the gum I remember.
Gum immediately gets some town points because he asks for his cellmate for thoughts on me, not random people. I explained my reasoning in my previous post.
Ummm, gum defending getript, is weird. I will have to filter getript as well to form a better opinion. Btw I think it's weird not as a scam-defends-scam thing but because getript wasn't making much sense at first glance and I recall gum from our game together as a good player, albeit with some suicidal weird plans but good overall. -town points for that but I will have to check getript as well later.
I don't like how he blindly agrees with palmar on mayor'ing him. Pls vote people by their activity and quality of posts not by their reputation.
Hmm, gum gets some scam points for the following bit
On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote: Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn
Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment.
So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm.
~rayn
"Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play.
So your honest opinion is that you don't need to give away your alignment to anyone but everyone needs to do so to you?
Also another question. We have 2 imaginary groups X and Y. In group X there is confimed mafia. In group Y there are 3 people who are all really hard to read. Which of the following scenarios in your opinion results more likely in 2 scumlynches: 1) Lynch the confirmed scum in group X, and have 96 hours to figure out the mafia in group Y, or 2) Figure out the mafia in group Y in 48 hours, then lynch the confirmed scum in group X ?
As for your question, 2' because confirmed scum isn't going anywhere. They can be literally killed at any time and I rather lynch question marks while everyone is still invested in the game. I have taken on this mind set strictly because the setup holds no surprises. If I'm scum, why would I champion something like that if my buddy gets lynched by day3 anyways? What do I gain aside from towns ire?
Open the quote to read rayns question. Srsly gum, wtf, you shouldn't be making that kind of mistake. You basically proposed to scumhunt and coin flip the first day lynch so IF we get lucky we end up with 2 semi-confirmed scum instead of taking sowing what's ripe in day1.
Alright gum about that big meta post you did on rayn. Honestly I think it's bad, you claim he accuses you of scumplay and you quote 3 previous games to prove that somehow the meta works for you? You say that "ey guys, I lied there to scumbait, rayn was falsely accusing me, so I'm doing the same thing here", can't you understand how wrong this is? Rayn has every reason in the world to accuse you in both games. Anyway, I remember that was your playstyle as well in our game together so I won't award you with scumpoints for this but if you keep at it, you are getting on my scumlist, period.
Ill end with the most damning bit of all, Rayn whole heartedly believes I am scum for false lackluster reasons, despite the fact that Steveling has yet to open his mouth. Thats because hes just accusing whoevers convinient for him, not trying to seriously consider whose scum.
Again flawed logic, wouldn't I be the easy target here and not you, a player with 4 pages of filter already?
On April 02 2014 13:13 gumshoe wrote: Fun fact, Steve coag and Ceph have not yet started playing really, leaving them out, six people (myself included ) have openly attacked mderg.
Geript
I'm fairly confident that mderg is the scum in Cell 2. I'm probably going to talk with g more and see what we can dig up from this one, because I'm actually kind of afraid to townread HF after the stunt he pulled in Cultured (which was fucking awesome, btw).
Tehpoofter
Makes me think Mderg scummy Sentinal town
Holy
Mderg is mafia in my group btw, that's an easy one.
Rayn
I noticed this too. I asked Koshi what does he think of this mderg guy and he said it seemed strage how he came in straight up defending the one dude in our group. Too crazy that he instant defended a scumbuddy out of nowhere so if mderg guy ends up being scum gumshoe can die in a fire.
It all fits!
Gumshoe
Whats your relation to Steveling, whats your general impression of his play and why did you feel the need to answer a question intended for someone else. Do you think Rayn is scum?
Balla
We can talk about plenty. How mderg's posts so far have been useless and scummy maybe?
Mderg is a lurky/noobish player, bad play coming out of him deserves due consideration. 50 percent of this games active players (I am not counting lurkers) find this guy scummy in a game where a third of us are scum. Yeah... lynching this guy is not getting us a red flip.
I believe there are some scum in this list you made gum. My personal opinion on mderg is that the only town read he has going for himself is when he defended me. He must have seen me posting in the football thread and he just said what he reasoned out. He's inactive or posting fluff, so I'm leaning towards scum for him but the bus'ing against him and the fact he's new made me think otherwise.
All in all I'm pretty confused with gum, I'm leaning neutral on him atm, can't make my mind.
I love this post BECAUSE it's riddled with uncertainty, this game is filled with people who have perfect reads (cause scum) it's a breath of fresh air to see someone who legit not sure of whose scum in his cell. If steve was scum, he could easily attack me or Rayn, and the way were going at it the non pick might just support his choice whole heartedly. Unfortunately for scum, steve is not just truing to survive his cell, dude be figuring shit out ( : good genuine effort in this post and a stance I feel is most likely town. Steve is cool.
On April 02 2014 22:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote: gumshoe You still haven't commented on Steveling. Can you do so?
You first, I've been waiting on your thoughts before I post mine ( : do me the curtesy?
I like his filterdive on you because he touches the same points as I do, and he did that before he filterdives us. I noticed that he didn't take a hard stance on which of us is scum after his dive even though he sees you way scummier than us. But I have no problem with that because reading his filterdive of you makes it very hard for him to not take a stance later. He clearly isn't hiding and letting rayn and you fight.
I am confident that in our group the lynch will be quite easy because you are digging yourself into such a deep tunnel and Steve seems to be quite rational & townie, making it quite easy to townread Steve and really just see your tunnel as a scum shitting up the thread rather than a townie really really being on the wrong track.
Lol, at least we can agree on one thing XD dat timing
EPT![[image loading]](http://i61.tinypic.com/qpnztt.png)
have openly attacked mderg.
