Cell Mini Mafia - Page 10

On April 03 2014 05:20 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
First off, gumshoe because his filter came up first:

Steve dived him here which I'd like to somewhat expound on. The conversation he brings up:



While going for unconfirmed scum first is fishy (and scummy), what stood out to me was gum's resistance to providing information further within the quote. This is looking like town play, just very bad town play - if I was a scum in gumshoe's position I wouldn't want to encourage rayn to make red reads on me. I'd actually be paying a lot more attention to what rayn is saying and trying to get either him or Steve into the frying pan. As town, gum can be full of hubris. As scum, it's attracting way too much attention, and someone in the QT would have shut him up. I do agree with steve that the other part of that quote is pretty scummy thinking though.



Gum's rage here returns to the same vein as where he ignored rayn previously: he discredits rayn's case because he's not sure of it, and goes after the meta instead. While this one post in a vacuum rings scum - he's dismissing evidence that goes against him instead of countering it, waving it aside as rayn twisting words, and tries to justify his obscuring of information that could help town at this point - it's very consistent with his mentality earlier. I can see this as another evidence of bad town play, with gumshoe missing the point of hunting scum but instead getting extremely defensive about rayn's comments, and "figuring out the game" on his own.



This post is actually one of the more logical ones gum's made up to this point, although I feel like you could make the counter-argument that Steve is simply playing neutral and doing both the positives and the negatives of gum's play.

A huge shitstorm ensues over rayn's case. Point 2 is very scummy looking especially as gum claims he only wants to appear readable to town and not scum. The lack of nightkills makes this point look very hard to justify... he really can't be silenced by a scummy mayor, since majority would be against sending group 1 to the chopping block first, and we'd have a scum who painted a big red target on his face.

Rest of filter seems to simply reinforce notions he had before. Gum's got one thing going for him and that's consistency to a fault: he's picked some key points (don't be 100% transparent, rayn is scum, steve is town, geript is a pretty towny player), and stuck to them, to the point where I'm wondering if he's simply using his earlier play to justify his later notions. I guess that's a bad-town thing to do, especially since he really can't hide an ally by putting himself into the spotlight.

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Overall I'm thinking town on gum simply because a scum, even a bad one, would have no incentive to become the most targetable figure in Cell 1, and that it's a lot less convoluted to try to justify his beliefs as careless town compared to scum.

I'll take a look at rayn once I return from work tonight.

@LSB I played with you two years ago and you made me your bitch. That wasn't very fun.

On April 02 2014 22:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:

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Point #1: gumshoe's bait and why it does not make sense from town perspective and proves he is scum:

Here is the full conversation regarding this:



Now here other stuff happens and both of me and gumshoe discuss other things.
Later on i revisit the argument and it bothers me because it looks weird.
I ask gumshoe this:


Now read the red part and the green part. Both are gumshoe's answers. Both cannot possibly be true. Agreed? Yes, good. Now this leads us to the following:

gumshoe says he laid a trap on me and i did not take the bait. Okay, maybe this is true. However why this is scummy is because the trap and the conclusion from it happened before gumshoe makes his green explanation. If it was truly a trap gumshoe has his conclusion already. In this case he would post the red part instead of lying and posting the green part in the first place. There is absolutely no reason to lie about the motivation behind your argument when asked, especially when you have already gotten your conclusion!!

There is no town motivation for gumshoe to do what he did. This also leads me to:

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Point #2: gumshoe's contradicting stance regarding readability and what it means:

I made a post about this already. It's here:

Look at the post.

• In the green part gumshoe, as town in the last game we played, claims his stance. He says "being readable is a big part of good town play. It's retarded to think otherwise."
  
• In the red part gumshoe claims his stance in this game. You need to remember this has to do with the point #1 i presented. I have an argument that gumshoe is mafia because he is lying. I want to know why gumshoe is lying and if he has an explanation regarding why it makes sense to lie here as town. His stance is "why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? If you can't read me, that's not my fault."
  

Why this is scummy? Because town!gumshoe PROVABLY thinks the exact opposite he claims in this game. He only says what he does in this game because he lied and can't explain it in any other way. His explanation does not match with what town!gumshoe thinks. Noone can possibly have a contradicting stance on what is the optimal play for a townie regarding being readable or not when they are town, it's impossible, regardless of the game or situation!

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Point #3: gumshoe is dodging arguments and working against his own heuristics + :

I'll just make a list of these:

• gumshoe refuses to answer my case on him and fearmongers something about "you can't read me scum because Steveling bla bla". That's didging an argument, Steveling not posting has nothing to do with if gumshoe is scum or not
  
• As Balla already pointed out then gumshoe calls me mafia for this. In case gumshoe's logic as town was "you can't call me scum because the other dude has not posted" he can't based on his own logic call me mafia for that. The point is not if this is true or not, the point is if gumshoe thinks this is a good heuristic he can't possibly forget it when it comes to me. He is selectively choosing to apply his heuristics when they benefit him and forget's them when they don't.
  
• gumshoe refuses to comment on my arguments on his case on me. Instead of telling people why i am wrong (i must be if i am scum and he has a good case on me right?) he only makes the same case again and hammers the same answered points over and over again. See my pretty picture. That's not how townies work.
  

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Thank you for reading.

~rayn