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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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I don't want to be waiting forever for this game to start  | ||
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OnceKing
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On March 14 2014 22:39 Valenius wrote: Mehhhhh /in Im confirmed town btw, so medic saves on me and no lynching, kk? Easy game plz i dont see you in coags townie seal club | ||
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OnceKing
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FATE IS UNDER YOUR CONTROL! | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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Therefore, ##VOTE Lord Tolkien | ||
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OnceKing
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Let's policy lynch lurkers. This is not to say that I think all lurkers are mafia or all mafia lurkers, but instead that lurking is pushing a mafia agenda and not only will you more likely find mafia in a list of players pushing a mafia agenda but also forcing everyone to talk drives the mafia into the open. What do you guys think? | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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What does it look like? Let's go through the logical construction. Suppose we preferentially policy lynch lurkers (thanks for clearing that up Valenius). Then players who lurk and are as or more suspicious as others will be lynched. Therefore, to avoid being lynched (which is unsurprisingly in the best interest of both town and mafia) players cannot lurk. They must talk. If you talk nonsense or push a scum agenda, you get lynched. If you talk productively and push good discussion then you don't unless you start looking scummy for some reason or other. Therefore, two things happen: 1) mafia are unable to lurk effectively, so they're easier to catch, which is good for town. 2) good discussion is promoted and a good town atmosphere is set, which is good for town. As I said, I'm not saying all lurkers are mafia or all mafia or lurkers. I'm saying that the mafia would like to lurk because lurking pushes an anti-town agenda, so therefore by not letting people lurk we benefit. Does anyone else have a problem with this? | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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Why do you need me to answer your question in order to answer mine? Are we playing truth or dare (without dare)? Are you trying to get out of answering questions until later? | ||
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OnceKing
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sqrt - jokes and one liners during RVS. Lots of 'em. Made no posts afterwards, yet. Mysteriously Robik's got a town read off of that. Valenius - qualification of what I mean when I talk about policy. Robik town reads it, slightly. me - brings game out of RVS and now we're actually talking about things. Robik thinks I'm scummy. ##VOTE: IAmRobik Want to explain this, Robik? You seem to think you know an awful lot. | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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On March 26 2014 13:47 Pixalated wrote: I don't like how he cleared both sqrt and val. Already explained why I don't feel that Val's questions make him town, and sqrt posting random stuff doesn't mean much. What this means about his alignment I'm not sure. Could be mafia trying to get cred by claiming that people are townie and having 'right' reads when they flip. ... so he has two things you don't like and you draw no inference about his alignment? | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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Pixalated - What are your thoughts thus far on Eden? | ||
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OnceKing
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About Cavalinho: I agree that he's suspicious in that he hasn't contributed a lot of original content. However, I disagree with Eden's statement that "blatantly riffing off of Robik" makes him scum. As seen here: On March 26 2014 12:16 Cavalinho wrote: I am also curious about aforementioned shit This is just an "me too" post which... doesn't really say a lot about his alignment. I'm most bothered by this: On March 26 2014 15:26 Cavalinho wrote: No, I am not dealing with this shit a second time. ##Vote Eden1892 One of us is going to be dead by the end of today and it isn't going to be me just because I agreed with someone. This is an overreaction and he's trying too hard to look like an indignant townie. He did the same thing in a previous game but the context is not the same -- last time he did this by attacking Amiko once Amiko said that he was just agreeing with something other players said before but before this he voices no suspicion of Eden, and in fact this post doesn't really voice suspicion of Eden either! Instead Cavalinho just places down a vote which gets no justification when we're well past so-called RVS. ##VOTE: Cavalinho. About LT: Gonna have to disagree with you guys, LT made an honest mistake and got impatient in pulling the trigger. sqrtofneg1 - What do you think of the interactions between IAmRobik, Eden, Cavalinho and Lord Tolkien? Cavalinho - Are you saying that if we lynch you today and you flip town we should lynch Eden? And more pressingly, why shouldn't we lynch you? (don't just say "I'm town") LT - Yes, actually I am getting flashbacks to Cav's mislynch on Day 1 of our last newbie game. But it's been a while and he's aware of his own playstyle. However, here's something interesting. He's brought it down to "me or you". What do you think of this? | ||
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OnceKing
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I don't understand your logic for why my post on policy was strange -- people were joking around and posting stupid stuff and then I made it so that people would no longer post stupid stuff. Did you want the amount of stupid stuff to continue to pile up? How else are we supposed to get into discussion mode? As I observed, this isn't the same exact reason why you died: the context is a bit different. You were already suspicious of Amiko that game, you were never suspicious of Eden this game and suddenly you place a kneejerk vote on him. wtf? | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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Wanna explain this LT? | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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On March 27 2014 04:42 Eden1892 wrote: Who is your partner and why is it Lord Tolkein? You're my partner because you're Lord Tolkien! | ||
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OnceKing
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Sqrt, do you have any original reads to contribute? Your list of reads is just a massive rephrase of everything that has been said by others -- Robik and Eden have voiced all your concerns about LT, and your town read on Robik even copies what I said about him town reading you for many joke posts at the beginning. | ||
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OnceKing
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1) How do you feel about Valenius now? 2) How do you feel about Valenius's reads? | ||
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OnceKing
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Valenius - you haven't casted a vote yet. Why are you not voting for Cavalinho? Robik - you've been one of the most vocal players today and yet you haven't put your name down anywhere. If you were to choose someone by yourself to get lynched right now, who would it be? | ||
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OnceKing
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The Cavalinho wagon is huge. I would think that the mafia would offer more resistance if one of their own were on the chopping block so early, so I'm inclined to back off of him right now. | ||
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OnceKing
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##VOTE: Lord Tolkien. Come make me move it. | ||
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OnceKing
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On March 27 2014 06:28 IAmRobik wrote: LT cause I don't like him and i still don't trust you as far as I can spit (which is part of the reason I put out that statement about not liking how many people were pushing on Cavalinho). Like, I don't know what type of hardon Eden has for you but all I see is you asking questions and giving no opinions of your own. He probably sees a sexy and insightful individual. *shrug* I ask a lot of questions because I like to clarify people's positions on things. I like to clarify positions on things because then I can find inconsistencies, such as this: your vote isn't on LT despite how much you don't like him. You waiting on him to defend himself or what? | ||
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OnceKing
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I believe the point being that you pulled in the trap so soon after you set it, which is an unreasonably short amount of time. Who's gonna ever fall for it so quickly? That's got nothing to do with the other time differences like the 3 1/2 hours w/ Valenius, Robik's 15 minutes to me and yet you're comparing it for some unknown reason. | ||
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OnceKing
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He basically typed a bunch of nonsense in response to point 5, then when I called him on it he said "oh I must have been low on sleep". So no real response there and he wasn't low on sleep when he responded to the point so what he's saying really doesn't make sense. | ||
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OnceKing
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Initially I thought he was quantifying some valid concerns about my "Lynch all Lurkers" policy. However on closer inspection the question he asked me was really pointless -- it was a closed question with an obvious answer he even implied in his post. Everything else is more or less fine until he makes his big post here of reads, except all he really did with it was make a glorified summary of what's happened in the game so far and echoed popular opinions. Let's break it down: OnceKing's initial policy post has come under some flak, seemingly because people don't see the point of it. In my view, it's setting out early what will happen if the day phase goes to shit and it's as split as the last two games. The last two games have been horrific day one's, with a spread vote count across all of the players and as is rightly pointed out by Robik a few pages on; We need to consolidate votes to stop that situation happening again. If it got to a split vote situation, it's much easier for mafia to be the one's controlling who's voted off the first day, either through sheeping onto votes or even just sitting back if town is heading wrong. In theory, in a split situation moving across onto a lurker, or non-contributer would help town in 1) more contribution and 2) lack of split votes. Nexxxt: His earlier vote on Robik seems like just pushing to me, there's not much behind it and robik's too strong to feel flustered by that shit. Words, words, words. And really what does this entire paragraph give us? "Robik's right, we should consolidate our votes". And even though he says that he doesn't want to give the mafia control of the votes, he still refused to vote for a long time until someone else had voted for his target (sqrt, who LT voted for). Why do this if you're so suspicious of him? He was even Valenius's top scum read later in the post: Quick totem pole. top doesn't mean i think he's confirmed scum, just highest on my list as it stands. Sqrt Cavalinho Pixelated Lord Tolkien OnceKing Robik Idk where roland / eden fit into that yet. He posts another massive spiel on Lord Tolkien that boils down to "what he did was bad" and yet mysteriously has no read on him. Robik gets the same treatment as I did: Valenius parrots the consensus in the thread about these players that Robik's being pushy and town. Now here's an important part: Sqrt. -snip- "Robik's playing aggressive, as he normally does. He's been pressuring pretty much everybody, as a town should do. The one thing that I don't like is that he got a town read on my on joke posts before the game. that's strange. I read town." It's not a strange read at all, it's pretty much in line with everything else that's been said about lurkers and mafia. It's also another one of those circular fucking logic's.. "If i post lots at the start, it'll make me not look like mafia, but then they might think that, so what if i dont post, but then that makes me more of a lurker, so i'll post..etc etc..". It's a decent read in a newbie game, but if you have any idea what you're doing it's not a unthinkable play for you to make. More than anything, you're jumping on with other people's reads without giving reasoning other than agreeing with their posts. Give some actual thought out reasons. For now, you're towards the top of my scummy totem pole. "Comes in, makes reads, avoids question. ##Unvote ##Vote: Cavalinho" In that one post by Cavalinho, he's provided 5x much more than you have so far. Here Valenius criticizes Sqrt's assessment of Robik by saying that it's not a strange read at all but then ends up contradicting it and saying the opposite as well as introduce doubt into it by saying it's WIFOM (which is quite a stretch!). Then, irony of ironies, he attacks Sqrt for not saying original things with something I already said! And finally, I disagree very much with his implication that the Sqrt post he quotes is scummy -- I actually read it incredibly town. He cites his reason for suspicion as a lack of contribution but in fact Sqrt's post is very concise and clear, providing a huge amount of information about his motivations. Then he refuses to vote for a while on the grounds that his vote would be wasteful which is wrong again. Votes are the town's most powerful tool and indicate purpose. Valenius proceeds to try to nudge people into voting for Sqrt again and after one person does so he finally feels safe to act upon what he was saying the whole time and put down a vote. Altogether Valenius's filter smacks of fear and unwillingness to stick his head out. Valenius is scum. ##UNVOTE VOTE: Valenius -- Other comments: LT - I'm not done with you yet. You've basically just admitted that you're not being helpful at all towards the town by saying you have no idea what you were writing, then upon saying that you still didn't write anything. My analysis of Valenius has him over you but at this point I certainly don't mind you getting lynched either. Robik - vote?? | ||
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OnceKing
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On March 28 2014 03:11 RolandJarvis wrote: By the time Valenius wrote this everybody had cleared eden. I think if he was scum making up reads he'd just join the party calling eden town. But if he's town and hasn't done the iso yet he can't. I'm not feeling a Valenius vote today. Actually I disagree. The list is basically a fancy way to avoid saying what he thinks of Eden and you. Not to mention that he said he'd get back to Eden and he didn't. | ||
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OnceKing
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Also, I may have been unclear. The post of sqrt's that I think is very clear and concise is this one: On March 27 2014 03:20 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Comes in, makes reads, avoids question. ##Unvote ##Vote: Cavalinho For some reason you had an issue with this post and used it to imply sqrt to be scummy when I think this post is very townie. | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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We can't afford to sit around and lynch whoever Cav points at while not even knowing if he's really the cop -- in fact we don't even know if there IS a cop in this setup. Keeping the claim around also results in ridiculous amounts of WIFOM about the night actions, and the case on Cav is fine. If Cav really is the cop then we learn about the setup, if he isn't then he was lying and we've killed scum. ##UNVOTE VOTE: Cavalinho | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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sqrtofneg1 (1) - Valenius Cavalinho (5) - Eden1892, RolandJarvis, Pixalated, OnceKing, sqrtofneg1, Eden1892, OnceKing, Lord Tolkien Lord Tolkien (2) - Eden1892, OnceKing, Cavalinho, IAmRobik Valenius (1) - OnceKing, Pixalated Vote Count 30 Min Before Lynch sqrtofneg1 (2) - Lord Tolkien, Valenius Cavalinho (3) - RolandJarvis, sqrtofneg1, Eden1892 Lord Tolkien (2) - Cavalinho, IAmRobik Valenius (2) - OnceKing, Pixalated LT swapped late so I'm leaning more town on him. Not a lot to be gleaned from outliers here as everyone seemed to push their cases a decent amount. Pixalated - Why weren't you around for deadline? I also never caught your reason for voting Valenius. | ||
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OnceKing
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On March 28 2014 08:30 Pixalated wrote: ... @Onceking, wasn't around as lynch was 6am for me, and i had a long day yesterday and was really tired, and had school today as well. Slept through alarm. Wanted to wait for val to respond to your case actually, but decided to just go sleep. Ah. I'm sorry, I didn't notice that you're from Singapore. | ||
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OnceKing
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On March 28 2014 09:08 IAmRobik wrote: LOL. I CAME AFTER YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE TALKING FUCKING NONSENSE AND BECAUSE YOU WERE THE ONE WHO PUSHED THE HARDEST TO GET CAVALINHO LYNCHED AND NOW YOU'RE TRYING TO PUSH YOUR OWN FUCKING AGENDA WITH REGARDS TO ME. YOU KEEP ALTERING YOUR REASONING FOR WHY I'M MAFIA AND YOU'RE DOING IT TO PUSH A MISLYNCH ON ME. FUCK THAT SHIT. THAT DOESN'T FUCKING FLY IN MY HOUSE! You need to stop typing in caps. Nobody is going to read what you post if it's just a stream of caps lock and obscenities. A couple questions for you two and sqrt: Robik - What agenda is Eden pushing on you? Cite examples. Eden - Cav flipped town. Assuming Robik is scum, who is his partner? sqrt - Why Val or LT? | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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If it's true that as you write, you're "willing to reevaluate everyone" then what's wrong with evaluating people now and then reevaluating after someone dies (or doesn't)? I don't understand why everyone is being such a complete pussy about talking in the night. "B-b-but I m-might get shot and d-d-d-d-die!" Yeah you might get shot and die anyway, doesn't mean you shouldn't contribute or stop being a good townie out of fear of being NKd. On March 28 2014 21:06 Eden1892 wrote: OnceKing: why did you townread sqrt for his vote on Cavalinho, do you still scumread Valenius and why or why not? First I'm going to answer the implied question: no, I don't have a town read on sqrt. I said that his vote on Cav is very townie. It was simple, short and to the point. He voted Cav when he did literally nothing but quote your big post and say "I'll answer in a bit, have some work to do and will get back to you." Isn't this very straightforward of sqrt? He wasn't even sheeping anyone, he has the first post after and immediately said what was on his mind. Yes I still find Valenius scummy for the same reasons I said before. I'm totally willing to believe that he only looks through the filter to make a case. That's also a terrible way to make a case because it takes all the posts out of context. | ||
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OnceKing
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Pixalated even asked him to establish his innocence before he got lynched and all he said was "Hopefully" On March 28 2014 01:52 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Here's what I think is really strange. I haven't been posting much, I haven't been acting towny, and yet Robik and Eden have a town read on me. Eden says it's because his scumreads have been after me, but Robik's town read on me is because of early game joke posts. That's strange. I consider people who don't think I'm scum pretty scummy right now. sqrt - Here in this post you scum read Robik pretty clearly but I'm getting mixed signals as towards your feelings towards Eden. In one sentence you suggest he's scummy but just two sentences prior you justify Eden's town read on you. Tell me, what do you think of Eden? | ||
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OnceKing
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On March 29 2014 07:06 Valenius wrote: So. Sqrt: Why have you been playing like you have? You've been very unhelpful with.. anything. Pixalated: You've sheeped onto OnceKing's case on me, and when OnceKing looked at his own case he realised it was shit. Did you truly believe in his case? Why? OnceKing: I'm still confused as to how you thought your case was good in the first place. You've looked over me again and realised i wasn't saying wrong stuff about sqrt.. what was with your original case? I'm backing off on my read on you. I have you town and I believe your statement that you just went through sqrt's filter in isolation. Was it silly of you to miss the context? Yes, but I definitely agree with the direction you had on sqrt. The problem with you originally was not that you were saying wrong stuff, it was that you were saying the same stuff I said earlier but fluffily. It's very easy for scum to look like they're contributing by just rehashing old analysis which is what I thought of you. However here's how I consider it: 1. Given your unprecedented attack on sqrt, you're probably not both scum. 2. Both of you were scummy enough so that I believe one of you to be scum. 3. Sqrt is scummier, so I definitely think it's him. ##VOTE: sqrtofneg1 | ||
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OnceKing
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you just wavered between me being solid town and not being solid town like three times | ||
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OnceKing
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so lt if sqrt's super scum why haven't you voted him | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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On March 30 2014 02:33 sqrtofneg1 wrote: RolandJarvis is mafia. This post is the main reason I think he is. This is after Cav claimed cop. RJ knows it's the truth, and tries to get people to switch over so that cop dies. Scum play I don't follow this. If he's scum, shouldn't he want to lynch the cop? Also, what do you make of the vote counts? I have yet to see anyone other than me post a vote analysis and I want to see what someone else can glean from them. | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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Yes or no? | ||
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OnceKing
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This is stupid, I don't know why these guys are afk but at least sqrt's trying. ##UNVOTE ##VOTE: RolandJarvis | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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##VOTE: Pixalated I'll take the Thunderdome. Better than this inactivity. To everyone else: I really dislike this lynch. He's back and at least talking if not trying to figure things out. If Robik and him have it out tomorrow, then we'll have a lot to discuss and gain a lot of useful information. If they don't, then we still learn a lot through the way they're interacting. Pixalated hasn't posted at all today, and even in general only posts when someone calls his name. | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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Reads atm Towniest of towns tier OnceKing Probably town tier RJ LT Valenius Sketchy tier Robik Scum tier sqrt | ||
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OnceKing
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sqrt has made a large number of questionable posts this game. Let's examine his posts after the short-lived joke phase. Here is sqrt's first large post. Unfortunately over half of this post is actually just quoting LT, and as noted previously by both Valenius and myself he makes no original contribution in it. Of further interest, however, are the several inconsistencies in this post. In the initial overview, he writes... Val hasn't been doing much, other than questioning the lurker policy, (kind of like me) so no read on him. But then he goes and says this: He demotes Val to leaning town. Maybe he now realizes that he was too obvious in pushing Val for town. If he's mafia, Val's also mafia. He also makes a scumtrap that's horribly planned out. Top mafia in my eyes. How can Valenius be a null read if he and LT are scum partners, and LT is top scum? It doesn't make sense. After that he continues to parrot things that were already said before. Later on in response to some questions I ask him he makes this post. Notice how he completely avoids taking sides on Valenius's reads other than the one on him -- here it seems he's very carefully trying to avoid attention or disagreeing with anyone, except for the "obvious" one to say that he's town. The parroting continues: here observing something Eden, Robik and I already said; here he says something that I stated previously, and even here I directly ask him if he's got anything of his own to add he blatantly says "Other than the ones already mentioned, no." as if to insist those are his own. Furthermore he keeps talking about town power roles, trying to fish for a doctor claim. Upon realizing that there's a cop he also says that he's been roleblocked knowing full well that especially with the cop dead there's no way we can verify the existence of either a medic or a roleblocker, and repeatedly subtly nudging discussion towards setup. Here's another example: On March 31 2014 07:27 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Okay, time to start analyzing. This next night kill is crucial for mafia. Who could it be? Who does it make sense for mafia to kill? Coming into D2, I thought that the next obvious choice is Robik. But the problem is, he hasn't posted a whole lot lately. I'm inclined to believe the birthday party excuse for Robik because he's in another game, and he hasn't posted lately on that game either. Anyways, back to the night kill. Who do you think looks the most like the doctor currently? Who does the mafia think is the doctor? Will they even go for the doctor? Or will they go for the top contributing town? What's the point of all these questions? Do they even serve a purpose towards clearing up the picture? (spoiler: answer is no). He's just asking questions to ask questions. On day 2 here are his opening posts: On March 30 2014 10:50 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Wait a second, wait a second. Robik is usually very loud and active. Right now, he's not. Suspicious. On March 31 2014 01:39 sqrtofneg1 wrote: I'm gonna go for RJ. #Vote RolandJarvis So Robik's suspicious, but he votes for RJ without explanation? He only posts again at the end of day to hop onto Pixalated instead, and then has this piece of gold: On March 31 2014 07:17 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Well, this makes me look bad, doesn't it? Here sqrt demonstrates a concern about what people think of him or how what he posts looks. Let's consider a townie's perspective: he wants to get his point across no matter what and push for what he thinks, regardless of how unpopular the opinion is. Therefore he's not worried about blending in, or if things make him look bad because he posts with the conviction of being correct. On the other hand a mafia member's posting is much more fearful. He doesn't want to say things that too many people disagree with because then people will start asking questions and pressuring him, and the last thing he wants is to have to deal with pressure. He is overly concerned with his appearance, wanting to stay on everyone's good side so that he doesn't get lynched. And he doesn't want to add new information to the town because every piece of the puzzle town finds is a step closer to his death. Which does sqrt's posting sound like? Which is sqrt's alignment? sqrtofneg1 must be scum. | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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##VOTE: sqrtofneg1 | ||
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OnceKing
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No I'm not doc. | ||
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OnceKing
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On top of what I've said before, you're consistently town reading me for weak reasons, probably because you don't think you can get me lynched and just want me on your good side. Your logic for the supposed night saves is unbelievably convoluted, which is to be expected since you needed to make up rationale and wanted to make something that was complicated enough so that we couldn't look at it and say "wow that's a load of bullshit". In addition, as I've said before, it turns out really convenient for you that you get to claim doctor and having been roleblocked every time. Consider this: we don't know whether the setup contains a roleblocker and medic in addition to the parity cop -- only the scumteam knows. Then it's safest for scumteam to try to throw suspicion off one of their members by claiming medic knowing that he can't possibly be counterclaimed because there is no medic. Awfully convenient if the mafia member closest to being lynched suddenly claims a role no one else will! Same thing with the roleblocks -- I bet no one counterclaimed roleblocks because there's no roleblocker. Is it a wild coincidence you got roleblocked two nights in a row? "W-well m-m-maybe they KNEW I was m-medic!" Please. If they knew you were medic, why wouldn't they just shoot you? There would be nothing stopping that! In fact the entire situation that Robik is backing your claim suddenly makes it evident this is a poorly thought out gambit by the scum team to try to win ASAP. You two were even RJ's scum reads, so you guys shot him to prevent him from pushing any further -- the logic here is clear and simple unlike your huge mess. None of your actions match what a real doctor would do -- a real doctor is town and plays like town, not scum (which is what you've played like). | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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You're scum and your wiggling is cute but there's no way you're getting out of the lynch this time even with your faux-medic claim. | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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it's you two goodbye | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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On April 03 2014 07:03 Eden1892 wrote: C'mon guys Robik was obvious. OnceKing I thought was kinda easy to see too but I can understand missing him. GG scumteam thanks for shooting me N1 NOT mad  | ||
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OnceKing
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Of course we shot him because he was the biggest threat to us, in the end although scum can do wifomy kills they still have to get rid of who's most likely to get them lynched. | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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just got to the part where my name comes out :OOO | ||
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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OnceKing
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I think you just need to start standing up for yourself and trying to be confident sooner! | ||
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OnceKing
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I guess last newbie we had Rick and... whoever else it was though so it all works out and yes D2 was undebatably the worst thing ever | ||
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OnceKing
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He outed my name in obs qt, now I'm one-upping him by outing his on general forums :D I just thought you were pretty solidly town RJ, I guess I didn't consider it as much as I could have. Like I said I wanted to shoot you because I thought you were the person that I could least easily get lynched. | ||
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OnceKing
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