EPT/in
Newbie Mini Mafia LIV
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
/in | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
 | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I want blood | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
long live the dream | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
i need to know how you self-eval | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 26 2014 12:14 IAmRobik wrote: end of page 6: Sqrt is town. He's talking to himself. It's very nonchalant. I like it. On March 26 2014 12:16 IAmRobik wrote: I like this post a lot. Valenius is both interrogating OK and giving answers simultaneously about what reads like genuine beliefs. Town lean. Both of these posts are terrible. Talking to oneself as a joke at game start literally doesn't mean anything about alignment at all. And while it's good that Valenius is asking questions to clarify what OnceKing meant -- perhaps even town-leaning -- there are no "genuine beliefs" stated in this post except to policy lynch inactives in absence of reads, which again doesn't say anything about alignment. Furthermore what is actually wrong about what OnceKing is doing? He said he would preferentially lynch lurkers, everything else being the same, and he's trying to convince you guys to do it as well. That's not a mafia trait. It's probably null; leans very slight town for actually trying to get people to go with him, but I wouldn't clear him off of it. On March 26 2014 12:56 IAmRobik wrote: And yeah, I think you're scummy for saying that and not doing it. And yet he's not voting for OnceKing. Guess what? I think you're scummy for saying that and not doing it. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
- Pixalated is correct to point out that OK brought the game out of the joke phase and now that I'm reading his last couple posts I'm nodding in agreement. Slight town lean because his thought process is following mine pretty well. Wouldn't clear him based off that but it's fine for a few hours in. - OnceKing town lean for now, moved the game out of the joke phase, Robik tried pushing an opportunistic lynch on him; I think Robik is scum and busing his teammate so early is stupid. - Cavalinho arguably looks worse than Robik for just echoing Robik's bad points and promising to go reread an old game then not posting any findings. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 26 2014 13:45 IAmRobik wrote: I respectfully disagree with what you are saying Eden. Clearing people for my perceived notion of town vs mafia play is not terrible -- it's how I play the game. Then the way you play the game is terrible. None of your reads make any logical sense and frankly look manufactured. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
What's sticking out is your "Do it instead of say it" mentality toward OK. I completely agree with it. The problem is (a) OnceKing is doing it, by trying to convince people to accept his attitude toward lurkers he's creating an environment that will allow him to push the lurker lynch once it comes up should it come up; and (b) you're not taking your own advice, asking people to pressure others and telling people to do instead of say and then not voting your scum read. It's also strange to me that you say my thoughts are logical but my conclusion is wrong. That can only be true if I'm missing a crucial piece of information that would change the logic of my thoughts and lead me to the right conclusion. Obviously to an extent I am since I don't have your alignment, but assuming you are town, there should be a town explanation for the discrepancy between "do don't say" and not voting the scumread. What is it? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
It's fine that you don't vote your scum read right off the bat, it's just weird to me that you criticize OK for not voting an inactive when you've just acknowledged there are extenuating circumstances to the very principle you're using to criticize him. And I'm not talking about meta arguments here; that's just moving the issue back a step. The question isn't "do you do this as town?" it's "why do you do this as town?" Talk to me a little bit about the rationale behind your approach to the game; I'm feeling better here but I want to get in your head a little more before I pull my vote. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Robik is town, guys. You need to move off of him and find a real target. ##UNVOTE IAmRobik Fortunately, I have one. Cavalinho was blatantly riffing off of Robik's emphatic response to OK's post. I think it's textbook mafia play just to follow an enthusiastic town player like he's done. His questions to OK sucked and reeked of someone trying too hard to find fault with something that isn't faulty. And Robik's right. Do, don't say. I don't give a damn if you tell us you're going to look at OK's previous games to "see if he did any weird shit like this before." ##VOTE Cavalinho | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
What OnceKing did wasn't "weird" at all. You kept and keep pushing the idea that it is while refusing to talk about how it's weird or how it being weird matters. It reeks of someone trying to spread doubt and confusion instead of clarifying the game state. Your questioning him was awkward and looked like you were trying to look like you were getting something done without really doing anything helpful. You haven't been trying to help us find scum, you've just been making unhelpful comments about how weird someone's play is or references to past games that we aren't playing. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Again it's not that he said OnceKing's start was weird, it's that he didn't do anything to figure out why it was weird or tell us how it was weird. He asked OK why OK made a post about policy lynching lurkers, OK said it was to get the town out of RVS. That's not weird. Cavalinho didn't bother to respond to him and then kept repeating himself about how weird it was. No explanation as to why or how that's weird, no attempt to develop OK's response, nothing. His questions didn't have any apparent direction or purpose to them. He asked OK why OK made the post, OK gave a good answer aaaand... Cavalinho drops it like a hot potato. No follow up? Nothing? Why are we supposed to be convinced that OK is weird or scum or whatever when you're just asking questions to ask them and not developing any insights from them? He asserts that he was asking questions because he didn't understand what was going on, but you'll notice that he doesn't acknowledge OK's answer at all. Instead he starts playing reactively, answering OK's questions and then dropping the line of discussion. That's not what people do when they're trying to understand what's going on. He vaguely talks around the issue right before I prodded him, saying that he thinks OK's start was still weird, but that he "[doesn't] have any real reason to think [OK] is mafia" because of his "last accusatory post" (what post is this?) and he "seems townie, getting information and generally being one of those obvious town players" (this doesn't actually say anything about why he doesn't think OK is mafia; we know that he wouldn't think that because he thinks OK seems town, why does he?) I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing. Cavalinho is my best read for mafia right now. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I think your conclusions hold up still because OnceKing and Pixalated have been challenging the right topics along the right lines for town. So far I'm townreading OnceKing, Robik and Jarvis; scumreading Cavalinho. Gotta find a way to parse through the other four. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Jarvis is my strongest town read (besides myself durp) followed by OnceKing/Robik (equal). Of the Inaktiv Fukstix Brigade I think I townread Valenius the most for questioning OK about his lurker policy, but I wouldn't clear him for it alone. I'm optimistic about him though, what little he's done has been solid and on-point. Just need to see more to be sure. Next is probably Pixalated because again, he's been on the right side (fmpov) of the "is OK weird" event. But that's not enough to clear him either. sqrt's opening was amusing and as a player having fun with the game I liked it, but it's obviously not telling me anything. Tolkein I can't remember saying anything of substance yet. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Strike the last comment on Tolkein I'm reading now | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Highlights of my concerns: - Reads on Valenius and Pixalated. ...how? Valenius asked some good questions to develop OnceKing's policy, but that's all. Certainly a good start but not nearly enough to declare him "super town" or "cleared." Especially in light of the fact that he said Pixalated is neutral-to-scummy... I have Pixalated as neutral-to-town if anything, but to be honest they've done virtually the same thing here (not post much, make solid contributions where they did). There's a lack of explanation for either read, which on its own doesn't say much, but... - Has already managed to place almost everyone's alignments. He's got the ones I think are fairly obvious (myself, OnceKing, Robik), but then all of the low posters/unknowns that I have, he's already decided on them being town (Valenius) or worrying-to-scummy (sqrt, Pixalated), and I just don't see how he's managed to do that already. One thing that I've observed in my past games, across multiple groups/metas, is that mafia posting early reads lists like this tend to do one of two things: they either betray their knowledge of the gamestate by not being hesitant enough to declare people unknowns, or they overcompensate for their knowledge by trying to appear as lost as they can. In Tolkein's case I get the sense that his reads are a little too solid (e.g. Pixalated, Valenius). - His position on Cavalinho is inconsistently soft wrt the rest of his list. Notice the "almost" above -- the one big exception is the guy that I personally think is obviously scum. He does some lip service to the idea (e.g. "these things should mark him clear scum"), but then handwaves every point he raises for Cavalinho on a shaky meta argument (e.g. "mark him as clear scum, but... might just be his playstyle). He says Cavalinho is "maybe the most scummiest read he has"*, but then declares sqrt his "probable" lynch target today. There's a lot of waffling on Cavalinho that isn't present with the others. (PREVIEW EDIT: Even concedes the case is strong, but still has sqrt as his top suspect. p l s) - His rationale for sqrt is weak. Of a handful of inactives so far he's singling out one post of sqrt's (the "I've never drawn mafia" post) as the thing that's so disconcerting to him? Already zeroed in on sqrt being a scum lurker and wants to lynch him over aforesaid "maybe most scummiest read"*? That's just strange to me because nothing that sqrt has done has been alignment-indicative yet. - Preview edit point: That last question is such a softball! Ideal to ask your fake scum read and your scum buddy, terrible as town. Why wouldn't he ask about the things Cavalinho and sqrt are doing that makes them suspicious to him? *: minor point and not at all a linchpin in my case on him, but the double superlative looks really hard like he's overcompensating his suspicion to distance slightly, even as he says to lynch someone else Tolkein right now reads pretty strongly like Cavalinho's partner, trying to deflect suspicion away from him with a weak, waffling concession and focus it on sqrt, who's low-hanging fruit right now. I think I still want Cavalinho more for D1 but either of them would be great and I want both out at some point (preferably "before we lose"). | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 26 2014 06:31 Lord Tolkien wrote: ZzZ. I knew I should've tried posting that part some other time. Or maybe I should've approached it with more subtlety (see: any subtlety at all). Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt. Was trying to see if they would piggyback off of it. Went back and deleted those sections specifically to try. My true reads: Valenius leans town at best. I'm hesitant to call him anything at this stage of the game, when his only post is at best asking for a PAINFULLY obvious clarification on a policy. Or in other words, in line with what everyone else has said. Pixelated is leaning town. He's had more posts and has given reads on sqrt and Valenius, but the main crux of their points have been similar to what OK and others in the thread have said (not much to be said this early into the game, however). He was however the first to defend OK's post (outside of OK), and rightly so. If we're continuing with the Cavalinho lynch, it is...unlikely for them to simultaneously bandwagon on a possible lynch and defend the person in question. On March 26 2014 20:46 Lord Tolkien wrote: Since Eden explicitly called out for those reads (like I said, no subtlety) which defeats the whole purpose, and because I think Eden is correct in pointing out that this is not the right day for these kind of tarps. Yeah I'm not buying this. Five problems here, folks: - The timing. His post setting the "trap" came over 20 minutes after the post containing the "bait," and the "trap" is at the end. Looks like an afterthought. I'm not convinced it's the result of prior planning. - The mechanism. He's essentially saying he was setting up a reaction test. There are four components that have to be in any reaction test: targets, purpose, rationale and conclusions. His targets are clear (his two scum reads) and his purpose is ostensibly credible (try to see if they sheep his reads). The problem is that this isn't alignment-indicative. Sometimes town accidentally sheep other people. Sometimes they even purposefully do. That alone doesn't tell us anything. Thus his conclusion from the test would have to be that it's null. That's not a good test and strong reason to think it wasn't a test at all. - The actual reads he's now giving. His Valenius read is in his own words "in line with what everyone else has said," and his Pixalated read is based entirely off of things that Pixalated said AFTER his "bait" post. In other words, he lied about what his Pixalated read was in his initial post because it's built entirely on posts made after the initial post. He cannot have read Pixalated town in his "bait" post because Pixalated commented on sqrt: Pixalated hadn't commented on sqrt yet! - The decision to reveal the trap so early. He wasn't under any obligation to reply to me until the trap was sprung. I can't see any reason why a town player would do this. I can see why a mafia player would do it, overestimating the extent to which he's under suspicion and feeling the need to concede more than necessary in order to shake suspicion starting to turn his way. But I can't see why a town player wouldn't simply ignore my comments about the different components of the trap until after the trap has been sprung. - The slip in the followup post. I never said anything about whether this is the right or wrong day. Looks to me like lies are piling up on top of lies here. On March 26 2014 06:31 Lord Tolkien wrote: As I EXPLICITLY note, it was posted AFTER the serious posting began, and AFTER IAmRobik's wtf on OK. The timestamp is key: if it were before that, and even OK's post, whatever. idgaf because that was part of the joke phase. That's what I find the most disconcerting of his posting, versus Valenius (whose post at least addressed something serious). It was also right before he went to sleep. Yeah, it's not a constructive post. That's not automatically scum, especially in isolation. Tolkein, you have one chance to explain why you lied about your Pixalated read from your bait post before we just kill you today and sort out Cavalinho tomorrow. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 26 2014 21:21 Lord Tolkien wrote: This was again in line with what OnceKing said about sqrt and Robik's clearing of him based on sqrt's long string of multi-posts on HS. That is not a read on sqrt. This is: On March 26 2014 20:29 Pixalated wrote: The one thing that I can agree with LT about is the sqrts thing. Upon my reread of the thread I noted that he left AFTER onceking started talking policy and Robik started pressuring him (I initially thought that he left before). I find it odd that he didn't take the time to make at least a quick comment on it before going to sleep. Still, it isn't enough to judge imo, and I find it oddly suspicious how he reads him to be scummier than Cav, who has had some very faulty logic (will get to that in abit). This is also after you said he gave a read on sqrt. I'm not convinced and neither should be anyone else. TOWN: Who should we kill first, Cavalinho or Lord Tolkein? This is important. Cavalinho and Lord Tolkein need not reply. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I can understand I guess why you'd buy his explanation but I think it's just more lies on top of lies now In any case noted, one for Cavalinho. I want to get the others to weigh in. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 26 2014 22:00 Pixalated wrote: Eden which would you prefer? LT I presume? Yes, for now. Cavalinho's play is more easily excused as incompetent. If as I suspect Lord Tolkein has been lying repeatedly, it is impossible to rationally assume anything but malevolence. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 26 2014 22:20 Lord Tolkien wrote: The reads themselves would've been sufficient. I wanted to see if anyone else would parrot it, not just Cav and sqrt. The questions tacked on afterwards was done specifically in regards to Cav and sqrt as they solidified themselves in my mind as the scummiest players I'm reading, and mostly to encourage them to post something substantive so I can analyze (which is their main problems this turn). This was not an essential part of the scumbait. On March 26 2014 20:31 Lord Tolkien wrote: ZzZ. I knew I should've tried posting that part some other time. Or maybe I should've approached it with more subtlety (see: any subtlety at all). Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt. can we PLEASE kill this guy already | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
##UNVOTE Cavalinho ##VOTE Lord Tolkein | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
- OnceKing posts his lynch-lurker policy - Cavalinho checks in, makes no reference to or comment about the post - Robik says "wtf is this shit?" - Cavalinho says "I am also curious about aforementioned shit" - Robik asks Cavalinho about OK, Cavalinho says "OK is...Off. Like, his post is just...weird. I don't really know how to describe it, but it's like he says a thing about policy and it just kinda comes out of nowhere." - Robik continues to express skepticism/suspicion/etc., drops some curse bombs - Cavalinho: "Why would you even bother talking about policy lynching when we're barely one step out of RVS? Now that I think about it, I'm gonna go check our last game to see if OK did the same weird shit he's doing right now." - After I challenge Robik, Robik's stance on OK softens and he feels more townie about OK - Cavalinho literally in the next post decides that while weird OK is town Cavalinho doesn't think anything weird about OK's post until after Robik expresses surprise/etc. about it, and then Cavalinho's attitude toward it escalates in hostility as Robik's does, almost lockstep, and then he townreads OK as soon as Robik does. It's really clear that he was just mafia trying to make a mountain out of the molehill of alleged weirdness in OK's opening and that he backed down when Robik stopped worrying so much about it. The tone of his messages on the subject changes exactly like Robik's does. And then of course his freakout and vote for me was just a really lame effort to mimic the example he raised not the post before where he was townread for OMGUS. Guy hasn't contributed a thing good and has behaved pretty scummy. I really don't see how LT repeatedly lying is an honest mistake. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
For the rest of the town, here are the issues with Cavalinho's last post: - He's distorting my arguments here. Specifically: he's framing my expectation that his questions have some purpose to them to mean that I expect him to walk us through every thought he has on the game; he's misinterpreting a question I posed ("why does he think OK is not mafia?" into "why does he think OK is mafia?") to avoid answering it; and he's introducing things I didn't talk about at all (him sleeping and not scumhunting as a result) in an effort to garner sympathy or otherwise discredit my arguments. - He's still not explained his vote for me at all. In fact he's claiming to have sheeped onto a vote...? But he's the only one voting for me. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
One major outstanding issue though is his rationale for voting for me. Everything that he said about me in the one post where he's explained himself is false, and his vote appears to be contingent on Last Tolkein being town. However, he voted for me before I said anything about LT. Thus the rationale he provided cannot be the original rationale he had for voting for me. I would still prefer Lord Tolkein as I think it's obvious that he lied initially about his reads and then kept telling lies to cover up the first ones. I think my case on LT is stronger. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 27 2014 01:40 OnceKing wrote: LT gave a fake read, that's what I'm seeing. Lying? Yes, but scummy? No. It's only odd that he was so impatient and pulled in his trap early. It's just odd that he hasn't put down a vote yet though he's casting aspersions in several directions. Wanna explain this LT? He gave a fake read and called it a trap, yes. But it's not that he lied about the read, it's that he's lying about the trap. I think that's pretty obvious given the points I raised in this post. Even aside from all that there are multiple other issues: - the certainty in all of his reads including on multiple people who hadn't said anything - the strong push for a sqrt lynch based on nothing - reading Cavalinho as top scum, but neither voting for him nor pressuring him in any discernible way - related to above two, waffling on his Cavalinho read (while still reading him top scum) despite being certain of the others | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
There's a plethora of things you haven't addressed. The issue is that most of them aren't really arguable (not in the sense that there is no legitimate counterargument but more literally that they can't be argued). You're doing a lot of subtle things with the way you write; I raised the example of how your tone kept changing to match what Robik was doing re: OnceKing, for instance. You haven't said anything about it. I don't expect you to say anything productive or helpful, though, on that front, and it isn't worth arguing out. (You will say that either I am misinterpreting your tone or that your tone changes are coincidental, and it will simply be up to the audience to decide whether you are lying or I am wrong.) Even still, there are things I've raised which you could have argued but have elected not to argue, probably because they're unarguable (in the sense that there is no legitimate counterargument). You've repeatedly straw manned the arguments against you instead of addressing them charitably and reasonably. At no point did your questions, and responses to the answers you received, have any apparent constructive direction. Your voting rationale given was entirely post-hoc and despite your last message here it's obvious that you are sticking to your vote in spite of the overwhelming evidence against it, probably because you're desperate scum latching onto any last shred of capacity to cast doubt on me that you have. --- Why are all of you so quick to accept Tolkein's blatant lies about his test? Please. Until someone can rebut the five points raised in this post and establish that none of them are proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Tolkein is lying, no one in this thread has any reason to believe that Tolkein is being honest. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Cavalinho: How is it that my case on LT is good and I'm just mafia preying on town weakness? Why does your skepticism about my points and methods stop where your space ends and another's begins? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 27 2014 03:21 OnceKing wrote: I need LT to respond to Eden's five points, then. I don't and won't presume to speak for him and my estimation that he made an honest mistake might be biased from LII. Valenius seems to have an idea, though. So Valenius, I'd like you to respond to Eden's points too, as well as give your thoughts on Cav/Eden! Who is your partner and why is it Lord Tolkein? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 27 2014 05:27 IAmRobik wrote: This is a really weird interaction and I don't know what to make of it. Eden says he thinks OK is town or at least leaning town for his lynch all lurkers thing. Now he's asking who his partner is. I'm sure I'm just missing something here, but I'd love an explanation. We're (mostly) fucking around, OK and I play together a lot and a common question we like to throw at suspects is "who is your partner and why is it x". In that case I didn't like that he was prodding Valenius to defend Tolkien*. I don't think he's mafia. (*: Has it really been Tolkien all this time? God damn it I've been misspelling it like a total chump.) Now then... I'm pretty sold on Tolkien/Valenius scumteam right now. Looks like Tolkien really was just trying to get away with clearing his teammate and hoping no one would call him on it. Rationale: - His town reads are obvious and aren't saying anything new, and he's hesitating to actually call his other reads scum; it seems like no town person should be without clear scum reads at this stage; note that he's not even straight called sqrt, his dirtiest read, scum, he's just said "top of the totem pole" which doesn't actually say "is he scum or not" - He's pre-emptively defending Tolkien which is literally the opposite of what town should be doing in this situation; he should be sitting back on that issue and letting Tolkien defend himself in his own words to get a purer read on Tolkien's motives - He's taking up the sqrt torch and going after what I think is a lame, easy target in sqrt instead of actually scumhunting; I get the sense this is to legitimize Tolkien's sudden and poorly-explained strike at sqrt earlier | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
As for the flow of his post, I thought it seemed somewhat disjointed in the wrong spots. His thought process was pretty clear when explaining the more obvious reads like you and OnceKing, but once he got to sources of controversy like Cavalinho and Tolkien it seemed a lot more jumbled and incoherent. I'm not ultimately too concerned with his tone either way though, it's the content in his case that's jumping out at me more. And yes, I am in fact pounding away at things I see that are scummy. That's what this game is about. Find the weaknesses and contradictions and ruthlessly exploit them to find the truth. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 27 2014 06:23 OnceKing wrote: ##UNVOTE btw. The Cavalinho wagon is huge. I would think that the mafia would offer more resistance if one of their own were on the chopping block so early, so I'm inclined to back off of him right now. This is my thinking exactly when I saw the count. I think Robik made the same mention upthread too. Guys, get on Tolkien, he's been given ample opportunities to respond by now and has no explanation for that completely ridiculous "trap" lie that's somehow been swept under the rug today. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 27 2014 06:26 Valenius wrote: I'll vote when I want to vote on that person. The only one scummy enough for me at the moment would be sqrt, but that would be a wasted vote at the moment. What? The only wasted vote is a vote not cast. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
It doesn't make him scum. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
- He concedes point #1. ("Won't argue this, and you can read it for what you want.") - He concedes point #2. ("Town can sheep, but sheeping still means they aren't thinking for themselves, and makes me devalue their analysis as a worst-case scenario." in response to the assertion that his test isn't alignment-indicative) - He concedes point #4. ("Then again, I'm not entirely sure why I was so quick to jump the gun, so this is valid.") - He actually doesn't concede point #3. Here is the sequence of relevant posts. On March 26 2014 13:47 Pixalated wrote: I don't like how he cleared both sqrt and val. Already explained why I don't feel that Val's questions make him town, and sqrt posting random stuff doesn't mean much. What this means about his alignment I'm not sure. Could be mafia trying to get cred by claiming that people are townie and having 'right' reads when they flip. On March 26 2014 19:13 Lord Tolkien wrote: Valenius is super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me. Pixelated is neutral or slightly scummy to me. On March 26 2014 20:29 Pixalated wrote: In response to Onceking's question before I left - Eden is town. His logic is sound, I agree with his reads, and I like how he pressured Robik. The one thing that I can agree with LT about is the sqrts thing. Upon my reread of the thread I noted that he left AFTER onceking started talking policy and Robik started pressuring him (I initially thought that he left before). I find it odd that he didn't take the time to make at least a quick comment on it before going to sleep. Still, it isn't enough to judge imo, and I find it oddly suspicious how he reads him to be scummier than Cav, who has had some very faulty logic (will get to that in abit). On March 26 2014 20:31 Lord Tolkien wrote: Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt. Was trying to see if they would piggyback off of it. Went back and deleted those sections specifically to try. Pixelated is leaning town. He's had more posts and has given reads on sqrt and Valenius, but the main crux of their points have been similar to what OK and others in the thread have said (not much to be said this early into the game, however). He was however the first to defend OK's post (outside of OK), and rightly so. If we're continuing with the Cavalinho lynch, it is...unlikely for them to simultaneously bandwagon on a possible lynch and defend the person in question. Pixalated's original post on sqrt was not a read. Full stop, end of story. Tolkien is going to quibble about definitions until he hangs because it's his only way out, but "sqrt posting random stuff doesn't mean much" doesn't say "sqrt is X alignment." It's just not a read, there is no room to argue about this. The problem is that he explicitly said that he "went back and deleted those sections specifically to try" this. This is implying that the part that followed was intended to be in the original post. Again, Pixalated did not give a read on sqrt, so everything Tolkien allegedly "would have said" in the original post could not have actually been in that post. As noted: he's lying. - He also doesn't concede point #5. He's alleging that I'm inconsistent in my application of criticism regarding the timing of specific posts. He is, of course, completely wrong here as well. My argument is that his supposed "trap" post for Cavalinho and sqrt came a full 20 minutes after his supposed "bait" post, when logically if you were really constructing a trap like that, you would have no reason not to include the trap question in the same post as the bait. You would have thought through the entire process -- "how will they respond to my question? will they take the bait? what would it mean for their alignment if they do X thing?" -- and there's simply no way you would forget for 20 minutes to ask the crucial question to set it up. It just doesn't logically follow as the thought process of someone who was intentionally setting up bait for a trap. This has nothing to do with whether sqrt would have taken a few hours to make a real post, or whatever else. In conclusion, Tolkien has either conceded or unsatisfactorily responded to every point I've made demonstrating that he is lying, he hasn't established anything remotely resembling reasonable doubt that he was lying, and there is no credible townsided explanation for his lies. Kill him. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
First of all, people picking on him and pushing a lynch for making one off-topic comment about his past mafia draws (or lack therein) are idiots or scum. I don't know which and I don't care, shape up or get voted off. That one comment in isolation isn't alignment-indicative. His initial reads list / first serious page is on the weak side to me. I don't think any of his reads are especially off-base but they're not adding anything to the discussion and he wasn't asking any questions to develop them into unique insights. His vote for Cavalinho was bad, I literally cannot understand what he was trying to say when he voted for Cavalinho there. What question was open for Cavalinho to answer? I don't follow. Nothing after the vote really sticks out to me. All in all his play is sloppy but nothing jumps out to me as either alignment. Again I'm inclined to think he's sloppy town rather than sloppy mafia because everyone pushing him is setting off my bullshit radar; he looks like a good choice for an opportunistic mafia player to get mislynched. But all I see is sloppy play alignment aside. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 27 2014 07:26 Cavalinho wrote: I'm perfectly calm, I'm just looking for answers. And I think there's a scum between you and LT, and I really want to get to the root of why the way you're working the way you are first. You pushed me as scummy for quite a while, even when you were voting someone else. If voting someone else constitutes "off of you," why were you off of me and still trying to get me lynched? Why are you deliberately ignoring what I'm telling you? Or is "off of you" just when you supposedly stop talking to me? Also, reads pls. zzz My suspicions have been pretty clear and easy to follow. First I had you pegged, then Tolkien had a bad post that was soft-defending you so I had you two as scum team. He lied which got me to switch vote from you to him, but until I decided Valenius might well be Tolkien's scum partner instead of you, I had you both as scum, so of course I'm going to push for you both to die. Reads: Tolkien -- kill him now seriously why aren't all 8 of us non-Tolkien people voting him and Tolkien self-voting out of shame yet Cavalinho/Valenius -- my two main candidates for Tolkien's partner, liking Valenius more than Cavalinho if Tolkien flips guilty, and if he's inno then Valenius moves down significantly and Cavalinho is my top pick for scum sqrt -- dude hasn't given me any reason to think he's town, thankfully my three probable bad guys all have by pushing bad cases on him at some point Pixalated -- true neutral he's talking but not giving me enough to really use Robik -- active, engaging, aggressive, forthright. town OnceKing -- extensive meta experience with him, this is probably his town game imo -- I get why people dislike that he plays 20 Questions but I think he's town, the questions are his way of contributing; only thing that's bothering me is that he hasn't made an explicit case yet, lot of following from what I can see so far Jarvis -- mega posts at one point that screamed town to me, great reads and rationale, but hasn't said anything since and I'd really like more from him so Kill Pile: Tolkien, Cavalinho OR Valenius ???? starring ???? as ????: sqrt, Pixalated The A-Team: Robik, OnceKing, Jarvis, Eden | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 27 2014 08:51 Lord Tolkien wrote: I'll post mpre when I have a computer, but. I kinda want to vote for myself just to spite you and see what happens when I flip green. Pixalated what is your yake on all this. Oh yeah, cut your nose off, that'll show your face who's boss. ![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/dick_schittlippz/chad-ochocinco-child-please_zps3ba0bc77.jpg) | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I think Cavalinho isn't mafia at the moment. Looks like Tolkien/Valenius. The push on sqrt didn't begin in earnest until I started pushing hard on Tolkien. I'll revisit this should either of my suspects flip town, but I'm definitely thinking Tolkien and probably thinking Valenius for his scum partner. Additionally this is telling: On March 27 2014 06:45 Lord Tolkien wrote: Currently, it seems myself and Cavalinho are the likely lynch targets thus far, and I would submit sqrt as another. Let's keep the votes within this group unless something major comes up. If Tolkien is mafia then I'm nearly positive both Cavalinho and sqrt are both mafia. I can't think of any good reason why a mafia player would say "Okay guys, let's make sure we kill one of these three guys" and include his teammate as one of the three. Question time: Pixalated: Which of Tolkien or Cavalinho do you think is more scummy and why? RolandJarvis: Need you to weigh in on Tolkien, Cavalinho, Valenius and sqrt and tell me what you think of their votes for one another and interactions. sqrtofneg1: Why is your vote on Cavalinho again? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
**nearly positive that both Cavalinho and sqrt are town | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 27 2014 14:17 Cavalinho wrote: Well, it's not even your read, it's like the reasoning for the read. You seem to have issues with almost everything that can be regarded as poor play...But you townread sqrt for it. The reasoning makes sense, but it doesn't really feel consistent with the rest of what you were pushing throughout today. How strong would you say that read is, and if LT flips town, how would that mar and change the rest of your reads, barring night chat? There's a difference between "poor play" and "scum play," though they often correlate. My townread on him isn't for poor play, it's because my scumreads are blatantly trying to push him as the lynch. So it's certainly weak. No comment on "if LT flips town" because I'm still working out the practical ramifications of that, I'll cross that bridge if we get there. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 27 2014 22:39 RolandJarvis wrote: There were some posts saying... hey that's too many votes on Cavalinho! nobody is defending Cavalinho! ...therefore Cavalinho is probably town. I strongly, strongly disagree with this logic. Another contrast with his previous game is Cavalinho had defenders on day 1 of the previous game and has no defenders this game. theDragoon (a mafia) had a strong town read on Cavalinho. When a town is wagoned it's so hard for at least one mafia to resist defending them. They get credibility from being right that they can spend later. "Don't catch a falling knife" I want you to imagine you are a mafia this game and Cavalinho is your partner. Eden and Roland are gunning for Cavalinho. They make substantial cases. They have lots of people calling them town. Cavalinho has a good chance of being lynched. You are going to defend Cavalinho? Really? Like say you think his posts make him town? I don't believe that*. If you are mafia and Cavalinho is your partner you can't defend him. Certainly not when he was the only wagon. * Not that it's physically impossible for that to happen, just that it's very improbable and the assumption of the posts I'm arguing against is that mafia would most likely defend their partner when he's a runaway day 1 wagon. Hah, I'm going the exact opposite way you are on this. I think it's comparatively rare that mafia try to defuse a town wagon. They're typically okay with letting it roll in my experience. And I don't expect hypo mafia!Cavalinho's partner to outright try to defuse his wagon; typically only town outright defend a mafia being wagon'd, but I would totally expect people to be pushing alternative cases. Seems like until just recently, this wasn't really happening; people were coming up with alternative cases (Tolkien, sqrt, recently Valenius), but at the same time it was kinda understood that Cavalinho was a caught mafia. Everything you said makes sense, but I think you can realistically go in the opposite direction and also make sense. (This is why we typically just say "it's WIFOM" in this case.) Regarding Cavalinho himself I don't really see where he's been all that different, looking at his filters from LII and LIV. I didn't really see him engaging people all that much in LII. Granted I probably need to reread his filter to see, it was kind of a quick skim. I'd be okay with Cavalinho tomorrow maybe but all of my plausible scumteams involve Lord Tolkien so I'm sticking with him. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Tolkien, some thoughts on your points: 1) What happened to sqrt as a wagon? I thought he was your main suspect? 2) I'm not clearing sqrt... I don't know why my scum reads keep saying this. Actually I guess that answers the question! But in any case I've said repeatedly that I only think he's town because my scum reads are all pushing him and he looks like an easy lynch for scum to push. I see wolves circling a lamb and of course I'm skeptical. But on sqrt's own merits he hasn't done anything to clear himself. 3) Haha bullshit, "toeing the line of what's acceptable" my ass. Every plausible scenario I have involves you being scum. Why would I entertain what I consider highly implausible scenarios right now? It's a waste of energy. If you flip town then great, I'll figure it out day 2. But you can stop this pansy-ass "toeing the line of what's acceptable" shit. Man up and say what you're going to say, don't be a little beta bitch and hide behind insinuations and implications. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 28 2014 00:53 Cavalinho wrote: Okay, I'm probably not going to be around at deadline. Can we possibly coalesce on someone soon that preferably isn't me? Like...I don't see what makes me a "caught mafia." At all. That was past tense... I'm more certain you're town than I am of Valenius and Tolkien. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Going to class soon and then I'm rereading the whole thread. I'm starting to get pissed off about this game because we have three wagons now (Tolkien, Cavalinho, sqrt) and two others (Valenius and Pixalated) that people are trying to start, way late in the phase. Seems like there's a lot of indecisiveness and general bullshit flying around here. It's really getting me mad how people are bitching about me "tunneling" when I'm obviously not, and then don't have a clear direction themselves for who needs to die instead. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 27 2014 23:01 IAmRobik wrote: I think that the trio of Cavalinho, LT and OK contain both mafia, although OKs post are growing on me as the game has progressed (specifically his last post where he outlines why he thinks Valenius is mafia -- a sentiment I disagree with). As long as we are lynching between Cav and LT, I'm happy throwing my vote down on either one of them by the end of the day. Let's just make sure that AT LEAST one of them is a wagon for today. Okay, so obviously this is outdated since you have Pixalated as one scum. Let's assume you drop OnceKing from the list here (you seem to be softening on him). Now you've got one of Cavalinho or Lord Tolkien as the other scum. But! Earlier you said: On March 27 2014 00:53 IAmRobik wrote: The number of people suspicious of (myself included), and voting for, cavalinho is a bit unnerving. I do agree that he's been the scummiest, but I've yet to see someone defend him (other than maybe LT). IDK. I'm getting the heebie jeebies from this. 1) Do you think Cavalinho is town or scum? 2) If you think Cavalinho is scum, what do you make of the fact that no one was contesting his lynch? 3) If you think Cavalinho is town, then according to your first quote from above, you should think the scum team is Lord Tolkien and Pixalated. If so: (a) How do you rationalize the fact that Pixalated had the correct reaction to Lord Tolkien's trap and subsequent pressure on LT? (b) Why are you by yourself on an outlier when your other scum read is one vote behind your town read? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Followup: Why would Pixalated follow me onto his scum partner? Also, side question, this one is less pressing but it's sticking out so I figure I'll ask anyway. Why are you so pushy with other people but so soft with me? You almost seem scared of me. Not really GOAT behavior imo. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 28 2014 02:44 IAmRobik wrote: Actually it did answer questions 1 and 2, but you clearly are focused on class and not this game, or you just don't give a fuck about reading what I wrote. No, I just wanted hard answers, not soft ones. Yes, I could imply reasonably well what your positions on 1) and 2) were from that sequence. No, I'm not going to do your homework for you. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
And okay, that's fine, I was genuinely curious about it is all. Your personality just seems more aggressive than this naturally. It seems similar to mine, but at the same time I think I would be more aggressive with myself than you are, so it's throwing me off a little. Probably nothing. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I'm asking because I can see both of them independently being scum, but I can't see both of them being scum. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
scum: Cavalinho, Pixalated maybe scum: Lord Tolkien town: all else I know OnceKing might be off-base; you were fine with me moving him to your town pile in my questions but that might have been for sake of discussion. I think the rest is correct based off of reading your filter. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 28 2014 03:07 IAmRobik wrote: meh....i'll concede that cava is more likely to be scum, but something is throwing me off about the way pixalated is playing the game and he is portraying a lot of scum tells. The whole situation with pixalated and LT makes me really really uneasy. I think Cavalinho's flip would tell us a lot about Pixalated and would help us figure out what's going on between Pixalated and Tolkien. Assuming you maintain that Cavalinho is more likely to be scum than Pixalated, then I believe the optimal move from your perspective is to get Cavalinho lynched. Do you follow me and if you do nonetheless disagree, what am I overlooking? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I'm about ready to move back onto Cavalinho. I still don't like Tolkien at all here, but Jarvis made a really good point here about Cavalinho -- all of his posts throughout the day have been focused just on surviving the day. He doesn't actually look concerned about finding mafia. Even well after I moved off of him, he just seemed insistent on harping on my alleged "tunnel vision" with him (which doesn't even make sense given that I wasn't voting for him). And enough people (read: just about everyone) have assured me that Tolkien is just being a bad townie instead of actually mafia, with particular emphasis on him being bad at Day 1. I suppose given this I should give him the opportunity to demonstrate why I shouldn't kill him on Day 2. ##UNVOTE Lord Tolkien ##VOTE Cavalinho | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I'd really rather focus on either killing Cavalinho or deciding who else to kill instead. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 28 2014 04:32 Lord Tolkien wrote: Reread your tunneling posts Eden. youtube video, memes now pansy ass beta bitch. Thos is mafia but fking chill and tone it down. Im fne with heat but the insults are getting annoying Mocking terrible posts that attempt and fail, spectacularly, at responding to my points isn't tunneling. And I called you that to get you to say outright whatever the hell you're trying to imply with that comment about me "toeing the line of acceptable play." Like I said before, man up and say what it is you're meaning. I got no patience for cowards, alignment aside, and sniping with insinuations instead of straight shooting is cowardly. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Cavalinho because he hasn't been scumhunting all game and because he never really addressed the case I built against him back earlier in the day. Case is obvious and has been elaborated on at length, no worries here. Robik because he came in and knocked the Cavalinho lynch off-course, and I later got him to admit Cavalinho was scummier than his target Pixalated (which was a weak target to settle on anyway), but now he's voting for Tolkien who he has as less scummy than Cavalinho. Their interaction at the beginning that I harassed Cavalinho over makes more sense now that I have Robik as the other scum; they were both fishing for an easy case against OnceKing and Cavalinho just followed Robik's lead. I've also been getting a really weird feeling about how Robik comes in acting like this badass at mafia, but whenever he talks to me he's just a monstrous pussy afraid to challenge me. Only makes sense if he's mafia and knows he can't afford to fuck with me. If Cavalinho flips scum then kill Robik tomorrow for sure. If he doesn't then I'll reassess but I'm really confident now in both of them being the scumteam. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
You called Cavalinho your top scum read then you're voting for Tolkien instead. K. For the rest of the town, a concise argument for why I want Robik out, and why, if I am alive tomorrow, I'm going after him hard: My confusion about the game state coincided with him barreling in and derailing the Cavalinho lynch and it only just left when I cross-examined him and finally got him to do something to solidify my suspicions. I felt like when I was reading through the ISOs of the players he wanted us to look at, I wasn't finding anything. I felt like when he got us off Cavalinho, the town lost its cohesion and direction. I felt like he realized early on that he couldn't put the blitz on me like he tends to do with weaker personalities, and that instead of trying anyway (town) he tried to subvert me by townreading me and being weirdly concessive and deferential (mafia). I never felt like my concerns with Cavalinho were truly satisfied and Robik's been waffling on Cavalinho ever since. I want to note though that a lot of this is contingent on Cavalinho flipping mafia; my case is weaker (but still solid I think) if Cavalinho is town. So if Cavalinho flips town and I get shot, don't just sheep me 'cause I got shot, step back and think about what I'm talking about here in light of the fact that Cavalinho is town and decide for yourselves if it makes sense. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Why do you give a shit about me getting on an easy wagon if you're sure that wagon is scum? You know there's no way in hell that Cavalinho and I are the scumteam. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 28 2014 05:43 Cavalinho wrote: I have been asking you, almost since the beginning of the game, to clarify what parts of your case I was missing. You seem to completely ignore what I've been saying this entire time, and I've been concerned because I have been the focus this entire day. It's like you only see the parts of what people are saying that you want to see because you just want to consider yourself correct rather than be correct. Stop playing with your ego. It's time to stop, because I'm not getting lynched today. Now switch to LT. Hahahah, ordering me around, that's cute. Nah, vote stays on you. You haven't done anything to scumhunt or help town. Yeah the focus has been on you. So? You take it off of you by scumhunting. You haven't been doing that. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 28 2014 05:45 Cavalinho wrote: Except he just challenged you. Stop ignoring people. OK, now you're just being intentionally obtuse. Well, correction, you have been the whole time, but now it's plain as day. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
re: challenging, it has nothing to do with alignment and everything to do with personality. Roland is a more detached, analytical player. sqrt is kinda involved but not really. I press people hard, I hammer weaknesses that I see, my style is built on knocking people off their script and seeing who they really are. You're a loud, headstrong, involved, engaging type, like I am. That's hard to replicate as scum, especially when there are people like you in the game, because it's difficult to push them when your own heart isn't really in it. It's all personalities and if I were in your shoes, I'd do the same thing. Ain't nothin' far out about this. You've got, oh, 3 more days after the lynch to convince me you're town, you've got plenty of time so stop sweating it out so much. I'm afraid you protest a little much, hon. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 28 2014 05:53 Cavalinho wrote: You're a stupid, shit awful player. I'm a parity cop. I believe this /s | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 28 2014 06:06 IAmRobik wrote: I refuse to talk about this claim other than that we're not lynching him. It should be blatantly obvious why talking about the claim is really fucking bad. ...no? We're lynching Cavalinho. That's plain fact looking at the votes right now. The only wrong answer here is refusing to answer. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 28 2014 06:09 Cavalinho wrote: Eden, we're going to talk after this game. Bring ear muffs. I don't get it, am I supposed to be intimidated by this or otherwise hesitant to move my vote? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Robik, you're completely wrong about why we should/shouldn't lynch the cop claim. It's not possible for a parity cop claim to work itself out in a game with nine people. For one, the mafia don't really have the same incentive to shoot them immediately like they do for a regular cop. It takes two good scans in a row and a timely death to get a confirmed mafia result, and two scans to get anything to use in the first place. In a nine-person game we're at LYLO by the time we have anything to use, with no way to confirm the cop is legit. For two, there's a 50% chance in any given iteration of this game that there even is a cop, so waiting for a counterclaim that's equally likely to be impossible as not isn't going to work. The mafia are strongly incentivized not to confirm the cop for us, and there's no reason to believe or disbelieve a cop claim in that situation. I therefore went with my scum read and pursued the lynch. That was the rational play and I make no apologies for it. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
So in absence of that I'm returning to my previous behavioral analysis. I think he's mafia. This clears Tolkien and Pixalated to me because there's no reason why mafia!Robik would push mafia!Tolkien or mafia!Pixalated over town!Cavalinho that hard, imo. I'm also pretty confident about OnceKing and Jarvis being town. The final mafia there would be sqrt or Valenius, and my bet would be Valenius simply because I don't think mafia!Robik would just town clear sqrt for nothing *and* that sqrt would call it out and demand he revise his read. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 28 2014 07:27 IAmRobik wrote: Are you actually mafia? Like you're legitimately twisting things around to fit whatever agenda you're trying to push with regards to me. Explain to me how going from On March 28 2014 02:53 IAmRobik wrote: I think you are town and I think you're playing well. to On March 28 2014 06:59 IAmRobik wrote: Anyway. this is bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad. I almost want to policy lynch Eden for this shit and like seriously. Eden. Go back to whatever shithole mafia site you came from cause you don't deserve to ever play another game with me again. because I started disagreeing with you is at all town behavior. If that's not what you're referencing, then explain how I'm twisting anything around, because that's the only part that's remotely contentious about what I said. I said your actions re: the cop claimant are null and they aren't a factor in my read, so there's no twisting of that set of actions going on, and everything else is derivative from my scumread on you. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
It's obvious what's really motivating him here. He's mafia, and caught, and doing everything he can to discredit me. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
My turn! sqrt, if you were a compulsive vig, who dies tonight based on what you know right now? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Robik needs to step back and reread with a cool head because his posts don't make a bit of sense -- I can't even respond to his last tirade of invective because he makes a bunch of assertions about me that aren't at all backed by anything that's actually happened. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
- First real post has LT as top scum read and Valenius as scum partner (reads Valenius neutral on his own merits but thinks if LT is scum Valenius is scum), OR Cav and someone else he misread; also says Pixalated is a blue role (why would you point this out?) - Next post he explicitly says "I think LT is more suspicious and I want him to explain"... but he never follows up on this - Votes Cavalinho for giving reads and avoiding a question (Cavalinho wasn't asked a question) - Disagrees with Robik's case on Pixalated, is suspicious of Robik townclearing him - Asserts that Cavalinho not answering a question in a timely fashion is "really scummy" (?) - Tells Robik to stop townreading him (?????), Robik refuses - Asks "who are we lynching today? I say Cav" then does nothing to push the Cav lynch - Useless filler comment about the cop ("The question is, do we believe the cop claim or not? It's doubtful, but possible.") - Says he would shoot Valenius or LT - Another useless filler comment about mafia knowing format I don't like this at all. He says that Tolkien is his top suspect from the moment he starts making serious contributions, and he clearly maintains Tolkien as his top scum read until now, since he just told me he would shoot Tolkien. But he never does anything in the interim to make a case for Tolkien and spends more time harassing Cavalinho about irrelevant nonsense than he does pursuing his scum read on Tolkien. And then once Cavalinho was squarely the lynch candidate for the day (i.e. with a few hours to go), sqrt asks who's being lynched, then does nothing to push the lynch he says he wants. None of his actions are lining up with his words. I also think his Valenius read isn't very good, he keeps saying he reads Valenius "neutral" (said so in his first real post and then says later that Valenius hasn't done anything to change that), then he has Valenius as Tolkien's scum partner and would shoot Valenius or Tolkien tonight if he were vigilante. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
- Valenius was pushing on sqrt throughout yesterday and into tonight here. No reason at all for mafia to bus like that this early. Valenius is clear. - Tolkien and sqrt went back-and-forth a little too much for me to say they're a plausible scumteam. Tolkien is clear. - Roland is clear by... just read his ISO, if I have to explain this after that I dunno what to tell ya. He's been hovering a little around sqrt as scum as well so that helps. - I'm obviously town. That leaves one of Pixalated, Robik, or OnceKing as the partner. - Pixalated made a couple of offhand comments about "not liking" sqrt but never really placed a definite read down on him. Having reread Robik's case on Pixalated, I think Robik focused (in the structure of his post) on the wrong things about Pixalated that make him scummy, and I didn't do due diligence in reading Pixalated's posts and just kinda wrote him off because the case against him didn't stick with me. Robik's "Conclusions" section is salient here, especially with Pixalated's actions afterward: his votes (on Cavalinho and Valenius) don't match up with his talking (where he's mainly pressuring Tolkien) and are blatantly sheeped off of others' cases (me for Cavalinho, OnceKing for Valenius, and his suspicion of Tolkien was basically what I was saying as well). - Robik clearing sqrt based on opening posts and doubling down on that read later still doesn't make any sense, but I can't make any sense of 90% of what Robik's done this game, so I'm not going to worry about it for the moment. I still have some pretty strong misgivings about how he's playing this game, but I can't justify enough of those misgivings as being alignment-indicative to call him scum. - OnceKing generally seems town to me, but I have no clue how he came to the conclusions he did regarding Valenius or sqrt. I'm going the opposite way on both: Valenius has been doing his due diligence, reporting back on things he said he would, following up on questions he asks, putting pressure on his suspects and generally playing genuinely. sqrt hasn't contributed anything helpful all game and has a lot of filler nonsense early and late in the phase. I don't see how he townread sqrt for his unexplained vote on Cavalinho and I don't see how he scumread Valenius for not understanding it. It's not at all implausible that OnceKing is sqrt's partner and chainsawed Valenius to get the pressure off. OnceKing: why did you townread sqrt for his vote on Cavalinho, do you still scumread Valenius and why or why not? Right now sqrt is my main mafia read, Pixalated makes the most sense as his partner. OnceKing and Robik are both slightly fishy to me, but their play so far has made me more willing to cut them some slack and show me they're town instead of outright accusing them. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 28 2014 23:08 IAmRobik wrote: I'm not gonna sit here and argue with people. Night posting is fucking dumb. The rule should be taken out of the game as it only benefits mafia and that's all I'm gonna say for the rest of this cycle...I've already said more than I wanted to last night because I was heated as fuck You should at least state your suspicions in case you're nightkilled. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Obviously if you're only going to do it once, later is better, but I don't follow at all what the issue is. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Furthermore, the fact that this was apparently explicitly spelled out in the postgame analysis for LII makes me more suspicious of whoever was in that game and is advancing these arguments. There's less excuse for ignorance in that case, which necessarily increases the possibility of malevolence. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 29 2014 01:23 IAmRobik wrote:As for Eden talking about night talk being the same as day talk...that's 100% incorrect. Night talk is different because your reads are now adjusted based off of the day flip. Prime example: Eden makes the case at the end of the day: If cava flips mafia, then rob most likely mafia, otherwise rob prolly town. Then if I'm mafia, I can be like, hmmmm, maybe let's keep eden around since he thinks that I'm town based off of the flip, and then eden doesn't die with his thought that i'm actually mafia, as he expressed at the beginning of night phase and instead he comes out gunning for me unexpectedly. And that, my friends, is why night talking is different from day talking. This is completely backwards; the optimal thing in that situation would be for you to shoot me, so I die after having said you're town. If I withheld my change of heart on you then my death would send the direct opposite message from what I wanted to send. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Again, the only thing that not talking during the night ensures is that we waste a third of our discussion time and that we potentially leave outdated reads that lead the town astray. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 29 2014 01:41 IAmRobik wrote: Man, we could barely use the 48hrs we are allotted for d1. An extra 24hrs of night time is stupid. I'd rather night end after like 8-10 hours and give us another 48hrs with more information to work off of. Well, that's not an option (though I definitely sympathize). Care to help me use the time we do have, even if you think it's stupid that we have it? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
How much could I get you to tell me about sqrt before the day ends? I still don't follow your townread on him. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 29 2014 02:40 OnceKing wrote: ... ok nevermind, went through sqrt's filter and Valenius is absolutely right about sqrt LOL Aight, so what's your read on them now then? | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
For me it's... Town across all scenarios: Roland Jarvis, Eden1892, Lord Tolkien, Cavalinho (rip) Scum: sqrtofneg1 - Valenius is town if sqrtofneg1 is mafia, null-to-slight-scum read if sqrtofneg1 is town - OnceKing is probably town, but could still plausibly be sqrt's partner; likelihood appears to be diminishing though - Robik and Pixalated aren't on the same team; Pixalated makes the most sense as sqrt's partner, Robik is an outside possibility there; more likely to me that Pixalated is mafia rather than Robik | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On March 31 2014 07:00 Amiko wrote:  | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
OnceKing I thought was kinda easy to see too but I can understand missing him. GG scumteam thanks for shooting me N1 NOT | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
one day i will bury you | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On April 03 2014 07:05 Blazinghand wrote: let's keep it constructive, guys. Eden was shot because he was doing a good job of having reads and leading town; he was a good shot. If you get shot n1 as a townie, it's typically because scum is afraid you'll catch them. Getting shot is a sign of respect. na i ain't mad he's earned it after totally grotesquely abusing me 2 games str8 as scum | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On April 03 2014 07:07 IAmRobik wrote: Can confirm. Same goes for RJ. We thought that sqrt would end up being a mislynch, so even though I read him as blue at the beginning of d1, we decided to keep him alive and keep RB'ing him instead of NK'ing him. imo this was the right move all the way, only thing I might consider mixing up was shooting RJ over me N1 but either way I think we were the clear nk choices sqrt was def. medic so gj reading that and shutting him down | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
| ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I wouldn't have caught him on merit alone though. I had a post later in the /obs QT about the LYLO pairings; the only way I'd have really caught OK was working with my scumread on Robik and townreads on sqrt and Valenius and then working backwards through the pairings (Robik is trying to get Tolkien lynched at LYLO over sqrt, so they're not partners, ergo Robik/OnceKing scumteam). | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
But there's a high chance it's not especially useful (what if he gets an OPPOSITE result? or you don't catch scum before D3?), and it was virtually certain to be a distraction in D2 and beyond. (Say what y'all will, here and in the QT; I'm not convinced, especially given the ending here, that people would have successfully sat aside the cop discussion and looked around elsewhere.) I'm not defending the lynch as right, obviously since Cavalinho WAS the cop it was wrong, but I'm not convinced this was nearly as open-and-shut as everyone is acting like it is. | ||
|
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On April 03 2014 08:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Oh right, I still needed to post my fanart. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SYhY4h1.png) (no offense to anyone, just poking fun!) post of the game imo robik with the iced tea and then sunbathing fuckin slayed me roflmao | ||
| ||
