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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 01 2014 01:06 austinmcc wrote: kita, examine your blind spot please. Haven't spent a lot of time on him and he won't be a priority for the remainder of the day due to other individuals I can use my time better on. Avoiding a town vs town is my biggest worry at the moment because those put you back way too much early on. At work currently so time is limited but I still hope to be able to comment on others more in depth other than rayn. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
The biggest thing about rayn right now is how sure he is. I know that even with the case I have made, I'm not completely confident. He is sharing his reads with certainty with no evidence that he has looked at my past mafia games or questioned me at any point prior to me presenting the case. The biggest thing to address for him regarding my alignment is the shadow connection that I tried to make. Yet rather than suggesting that I tried to duplicate the town meta so that he would develop a town read on me, he ignores it completely. Onto hopeless: + Show Spoiler + On March 31 2014 21:50 Hopeless1der wrote: nothing personal slam  ##Vote: Alakaslam On March 30 2014 06:25 Hopeless1der wrote: because the alternative means i need to be a dick to kita and i dont wanna do that right now. On March 30 2014 06:31 Hopeless1der wrote: whered you go kita? do i need to go through the motions of "totes serious voting" to get a response? I didn't really think too much of the post that Toad/Foolishness pointed out. Hopeless shows signs of guilt with his slam vote. As a town player, I'd expect annoyance from slam's play, yet this comes off as slightly apologetic. His defense of rayn at the start I found scummy and these posts sound as if he is writing them as mafia to sound town, but I admit that is a weak line of reasoning here. On March 31 2014 23:47 Hopeless1der wrote: kita, rayn wants to 1v1 you. do you accept? On April 01 2014 00:02 Hopeless1der wrote: p.s. rayn revoted kita On March 31 2014 23:56 Hopeless1der wrote: In my currently preferred scenario, we lynch rayn. If he flips town, hope a vig can get you or slam and probably end up lynching the other one. These posts seem like the ideal mafia scenario if rayn is indeed town, which would be opportunistic from his perspective. He makes the assumption that if rayn flips town, I must be mafia. This is scummy because up until this point, he hasn't hinted at having a mafia read on me or having a problem with my case. In fact, he defends me explaining how I could coast along with the slam lynch. So there is a gap in logic here if he would be so open to my death. At first, I really thought that rayn and hope could be scum buddies. rayn exploded with anger about Toad's post. He then showed a defeated attitude, as if he had no choice but to vote hope for an incredibly, incredibly weak reason. As buddies, he would have to anticipate a huge wagon on hope at that point and I wasn't feel the sentiment at that time. Since then it seems less likely that they are both mafia, with a shifting read on hope to town from rayn and an attack on rayn from hope after my case. I would say that hope is scummy to me, but the discussion about the town vs town is all speculative, pre-flip analysis, which I'd want to avoid. The biggest point is how open he would be to see me die to enforce the 1v1 trade, without making any argument as to why we must be of opposite alignments. There wasn't enough here to make me move off of rayn here. I'd like to do vivax/djo next and see if austin's points have any merits. austin himself I've ignored for the most part and I'll likely continue to do so until a red flag pops up. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 01 2014 01:56 austinmcc wrote: If a guy has a scumread, then he's unsure of it, how does he follow up if he's town, real read, real worry that it's wrong, and how does he follow it up if he's scum, read was fake, either he finds it efficient to possibly change it or ... whatever. There's no...followup. A change of read is fine, but it should cause something to happen that I'm not seeing. Can't you make the same case against rayn? He finds my web suspicious, isn't sure about my alignment and then calls me stupid a bunch of times, rather than committing to a read. You saw marv do the same thing in shadow. At no point does he follow up with his read on my or attempt to ask me any direct questions until he goes from a 1-liner that I'm scummy to being 100% confident. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 01 2014 02:01 austinmcc wrote: rayn is not...lacking for scumreads. Poofter is, if he isn't sure on rayn. Yes he is. Has has his omgus vote on myself, the third party claim, and the inactive guy. On April 01 2014 00:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Weak scum: gumshoe - hasn't said anything Kill with fire: kitaman27 Alakaslam | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 01 2014 02:42 JarJarDrinks wrote: He says if he was scum, he'd go after me. That to me, means that he knows I'm not scum. That doesn't make sense. I actually do think you're kinda townie for taking a contrarian position. I suspect that if rayn is mafia then his buddies would be unlikely to oppose me. If rayn is town, then his buddies would likely either support my case or call us both town, vote slam and go with the easy "I told you so" type of deal. From a mafia perspective, if we're both town, the reason to go after me is that I'm less likely to flip so you can stay on me the following cycle, but that seems less likely at the moment. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On March 29 2014 00:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: 11. kitaman27 - hard read tricky Another thing to note. In the catastrophe thread, rayn chose to briefly describe the meta of each player. For me, he chose "hard read tricky". In his web post, he also describes me as hard to read. For someone that admits to having difficulty reading me historically, he is suddenly crystal clear in regards to my alignment. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 01 2014 02:43 Vivax wrote: I am working things off one by one. Nowhere did I say my suspicion of kita went "poof", so don't assume so just cause I am currently not asking him questions. If you could simply answer instead of spamming desperation cryouts cause of a question then it would be appreciated thanks. So to be clear, what do you think? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 01 2014 03:38 Vivax wrote: I like how you explain things around rayn here in your post in spoiler since I got the feeling that he's creating a lot of confusion and drama and I don't like that, it's just that I can't tell if he's doing it on purpose or cause he's just being like that and town but what I do see is that he throws around with scumreads without trying to let them be productive. He's accusatory not inquisitive and he reminds me of the kind of attitude I saw on him in that game where he hydraed with Mocsta as scum, in which he also behaved pretty negatively throughout the game. I'm not sure if I would lynch him D1 though, I would rather be happy with a Kaslam lynch, like I mentioned it's also possible he's traitor and it's already enough if we don't lynch town and get the doubt of the way. + Show Spoiler + On March 31 2014 23:12 kitaman27 wrote: On raynpelikoneet So here is what I was doing at the start of this game. I was actually trying to accomplish something with my play. I was reproducing my behavior to a tee from the recent shadow mini mafia game. + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 09:31 kitaman27 wrote: ##Vote Sandroba On January 21 2014 11:28 kitaman27 wrote: I'm not voting him as a joke. I think he is a great vote. We should lynch him today. On January 21 2014 10:46 kitaman27 wrote: Wanna vote sandroba with me? He may or may not be scummy. On January 21 2014 10:34 kitaman27 wrote: Do you think I'm trying to paint sandroba in a bad light using my "scummy thought process" like you mentioned or do you think that it was a random vote with little thought? I random voted moments into the game, I refused to provide an explanation when asked, I requested that someone vote with me without details, I asked a similar question when prompted, and I moved off the random vote shortly after. The goal here was to prompt someone to question my behavior and see if they attempt to make the connection or if they simply pass off my play as scummy. rayn mentioned that he observed shadow and toad and austin played in it, so even if they don't remember the random vote, it would likely be the first place to look as it was my most recent town game. It's important to note that I'm not trying to say that me emulating my shadow mafia play makes me town. I'm saying that the connection is there for anyone interested in finding it. I was pretty happy that rayn had suggested that was was going to do some research and pushed him in the right direction several times as you can see below. + Show Spoiler + On March 30 2014 15:54 kitaman27 wrote: As for your "web of disruption" post, it has a catchy name, but I'll respond once you come to an actual conclusion. On March 30 2014 16:23 kitaman27 wrote: Well I'm going to bed now. When I wake up, can you provide a follow up to the "web of disruption" post? On March 31 2014 01:06 kitaman27 wrote: rayn, have you finished your research yet? On multiple occasions, rayn confirms that he will do the work to back up his initial suspicions. + Show Spoiler + On March 30 2014 14:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Now i gotta figure out if kita does this only as mafia or does he do this as town too (or maybe only as town?) On March 30 2014 16:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes. I'll watch the Formula 1 race that starts in ~30min and i'll do my research after that. Yet when push comes to shove, he decides not to put the effort in. He spends the time into coming up with his thesis that I'm creating a "web of disruption", yet has no interest in backing it up. If he is going to call me scummy, when does he have no interest in catching me? Now there are three possible explanations: 1) He dropped the ball as town, attacking me without putting in the effort 2) He did the research as mafia, didn't like what he found, and dropped the case to avoid calling me town 3) He is a lazy scum player who didn't want to go after me at a point where several players are calling me town If rayn thought that I was looking decently townie otherwise, then maybe I'd consider number one. The biggest issue that I have right now is that as far as I can tell, I am rayn's number one scum suspect. He is pushing slam for being anti-town and shows that he may have reconsidered his read on tehpoofer, yet not a word about myself. rayn describes his play best. I don't think you can argue that he isn't being lazy here. rayn was given the pieces of the puzzle to solve and he chose not to because he "doesn't care". This line of thought is pretty terrible. He explains his willingness to vote for hopelessness over a minor observation about hope a few hours into the game. Not only does he not consider that foolishness could be wrong, he is using the justification for the vote because he respects foolishness as a player, not because he thinks its a valid argument. He even goes as far as dropping his suspicion of myself due to my interaction with hope. rayn states that he has done the most scum hunting in the game hands down, he suggests that I am his number one scum read, and he hasn't showed any attempt to figure out my alignment. As he mentioned earlier, he is trying to force the pieces in the wrong order. The one thing holding me up is 1) His mass claim policy is consistent with his previous behavior as town 2) Slam is one of the most anti-town players in recent memory Right now I'd probably be leaning towards a rayn lynch and hopefully having a vig take care of slam so he is removed as a discussion topic. I would like to look at a few more individuals before I finalize my vote. I was actually referring to your views on my own alignment. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
It seems unlikely that mafia would have both a town recruiting role and a traitor role in the same game. I suppose a third party traitor that joins the mafia team is a possibility, but I've never seem something like that before. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 01 2014 03:46 Vivax wrote: it seemed like you reacted to the pressure by giving a summary of the situation which felt like a stretch I was hardly under any pressure at any point prior to presenting my rayn post. Would you mind pointing out what you are referring to? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 01 2014 03:54 Vivax wrote: Sure you were, thrawn, rayn and a few others I think kept asking you questions to wtf you were doing. Meh I think your time line is bit off since you're referring to events that were 30+ hours apart that would trigger my reaction long past when it was relavent, but I did find the posts that you could possibly referring to so I won't argue any further. Are you saying that slam is the best lynch today? Who would you consider after him? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
If I had to guess it would be based on my speculation of mafia numbers maybe? Anything to add kush? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 01 2014 04:41 thrawn2112 wrote: gumshoe has not demonstrated anything except his willingness to be useless Do you think that this is the type of behavior you would expect from a mafia gumshoe? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On April 01 2014 04:44 austinmcc wrote: All I can say is that, while he has not been ACTIVE elsewhere, he has posted in World Championship mafia a couple times since being here. He's been on the site and reading that thread, but has not indicated any desire to participate in this one, nor has he actually participated. That, on average, is more likely a mafia thing. Taking a quick look at his only mafia game. He actually seems pretty wordy. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/441596-gsl-open-mini-mafia-iv?page=44#868 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/441596-gsl-open-mini-mafia-iv?page=56#1110 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/441596-gsl-open-mini-mafia-iv?page=75#1485 Are you confident enough that you'd want to lynch him now over someone who has posted, without waiting to see if he does shape up tonight? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
A deal works both ways. We give you lynch immunity so that you survive until endgame. Mafia will not shoot you over town. You will therefore be guaranteed to win. You give us your role name and role and if we feel that you can use it to find mafia, you help us out. Mods have confirmed you can share your role. You would be allowed to post slammy stuff to your hearts content and nobody would have a problem. I'd even be willing to join in. Think of how much fun that would be! Sound good? | ||
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