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On April 02 2014 13:16 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 13:12 Amiko wrote:On April 02 2014 13:05 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Though the reason I don't think that's likely is because it would make kita town which I really doubt. I have no idea what this comment means, please explain it. If scum gave me a nuke then they'd have to assume there'd be a good chance I'd use it on Kita. So if scum gave me a nuke then kita isn't scum.
@austinmcc and @kushm4sta since you are in thread
I agree with austinmcc and I'm willing to filter dive a bit to see if I can find something.
Would you both let me know whether you agree with JJD's statement above regarding nuke/kitaman27?
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(Fun fact: I am currently drinking tea. I think this confirms me as town.)
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On March 31 2014 22:08 kushm4sta wrote:
I think toads case on hopeless is unconvincing but it probably comes from town, unless toad stepped it up hard core since his last scum game.
Gotta read Raines newest stuff still.
I think there is evidence that kita has too much information.
@kushm4sta: I think I asked you this yesterday but did not see a response in thread or filter. Sorry if I missed it. Will you explain what you mean in the bolded part of the quote?
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On April 02 2014 05:06 kushm4sta wrote:
i kind of dont want to give reads just in case ive been converted..
On April 02 2014 06:21 kushm4sta wrote:
did not get converted
@kushm4sta: Would you share some reads now?
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regarding djodref-
I reread djodref, didn't get much new out of it but here's two comments-
I think Djo should have seen Toad as scummier give that from Djodref's point of view, Toad's power was essentially placing the +1 of his vote on whoever he wanted, regardless of where his name appeared in the vote list. I feel that power is almost only something that would come from scum.
I don't get a strong read off of Djo for that, however, because he did indicate he was going to focus on Toad today and he may not have been thinking about it that much since he missed kushm4sta claiming the extra vote was from him.
Besides that, I only found one semi-inconsistency in Djodref's filter. It's probably irrelevant to the game but it made me a little happy:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 31 2014 04:51 Djodref wrote:
What do you mean by cop-out ? Sorry but I'm not a native speaker. This is also why it's more difficult for me to understand your posts so maybe you come more trolly and spammy than you should to me but you do, and after the last game we played together I don't mind to policy lynch you. On April 01 2014 01:11 Djodref wrote:
I'm gonna have to go to a dinner with friends soon, I think I'm going to be busy at deadline. I don't like a rayn lynch, I don't think kita is scum.
I'm copping out and voting Slam. I don't see a better option right now.
@rayn
gumshoe is inactive, he is totally null, I hope someone shoots him if he keeps up playing like this. But I don't see how you can have him as scum. You could propose a policy lynch on him at best. He learned a new word! :D
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To clarify my last post a little bit, the comment I am making there is because Djodref knew that Toad claimed his vote wouldn't count (they discussed it d1), and Djodref attributed the +1 vote to Toad (in a conversation with me n1).
I'm going to make an ice cream float in a little bit then go to bed! JJD I think kita said something that tried to explain his read on rayn earlier which made it sound like when he posted his 'case' on rayn it was more of a read. I forget, I think it was in response to my comment and I don't want to reread it right now (sorry). If it's still an issue I'll try to put up a quick post tomorrow morning if I can.
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(when I say it was more of a read, I mean like, he had suspicions but wasn't set in it)
(whatever it looks like kushm4sta is saying what I'm saying so I'm out for now)
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On April 03 2014 00:58 Hopeless1der wrote:
i.e. no, claiming doesnt prove anything, everyone has fakeclaims, everyone is probably blue.
I'm not back in thread yet (going to get lunch with some people then can play after) but I would like people should stop saying things like this because, among other reasons:
1- I think there are probably vts because conversion is scary if mafia can convert power roles. (it is possible/likely being converted removes your prior role powers given the earlier mod response but let's not harp on modtext);
2- I don't want to encourage blues to identify themselves in a conversion game;
3- Meta-wise, it seems like GreyMist games have all blue roles, but Crossfire had VTs in the ## game so it seems reasonable there would be some in this game.
I'll be back this afternoon and want to try to read over JJD's comments on kita and any other questions or topics people @ me about.
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JarJarDrinks / Kitaman27's Trap / Rayn
Responding to this post and discussion before and after - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21106351
Ok, I was initially a bit confused by JJD’s point but I think I understand it now.
JJD is saying the following (correct me if I’m wrong):
JJD’s Argument (I think)
First (*#1*), Kita posts here (link) his preference is hopeless vs. slam over rayn vs. slam. This post implies Kita sees hopeless as more scummy than rayn at the time of this post.
For context, Rayn had indicated prior to (*#1*) that his scumreads were kitaman27 and tehpoofter (link). After Kita’s post above, (*#1*), Rayn discusses a few things and seems to feel more towny about tehpoofter (link. Rayn doesn’t seem to make many direct comments on kita.
Then, Kita posts his expansive post on rayn (*#2*) (link). In this post he argues that rayn has not followed up on reads, indicating rayn is likely scum.
From my understanding, JJD is saying that when Kita posted (*#1*), he should not have felt that rayn was less scummy than hopeless because nothing changed between (*#1*) and (*#2*)). In other words, kita’s earlier post should have seen rayn as scummier than hopeless.
My thoughts on this argument
I think JJD’s point is correct, but I feel like it justifies kitaman’s post as much as it questions it.
In other words, I feel Kita’s attack on rayn is more justified premised when rayn is attacking him. If Rayn sees Kita as his top scumread, then rayn is more likely to filter dive to support his argument that kita is scum, so rayn’s failure to filterdive kita seems less likely to be lazy town.
I haven’t felt great about JJD this game but I feel this was a good point to raise, we can talk about it more if you want JJD or let me know if I misconstrued or misunderstood.
Sidenote – thrawn2112 claim
I don’t think this was addressed, but when re-reading thrawn2112 I noticed this post, which I think can be read as hinting at the claim he makes later (double vote).
+ Show Spoiler +On March 31 2014 16:53 thrawn2112 wrote:
btw guys
next person i vote for is in for a surprise
so don't be scummy
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Votes on Rayn
@anyone in thread
I don’t really understand why there seems to be agreement that there are no scum votes on raynpelikoneet, if you are willing to spend a little time on that I’d appreciate it.
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There’s some crazy stuff going down with gumshoe now so I’ll post this and read that.
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gumshoe don't die I wanted to go to space T_T
@anyone I don't actually know the etiquette in this situation, am I allowed to question gumshoe right now or do we have to not talk to him until he is confirmed to be alive/dead?
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Quick point-
If gumshoe does flip as a medic you can feel I am potentially confirmed town (not 100%).
Assuming gumshoe dies from bullet wounds, kushm4sta is confirmed PR.
If gumshoe flips medic, this suggests to me mafia only has 1 KP (since there were no deaths) so at least mafia may have to pick between kushm4sta and myself.
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Just in case the situation comes up in the future in this or another game, what is the etiquette for questioning a player who may have been shot? I don't know the rules on that.
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On April 03 2014 05:03 Vivax wrote:
Fuck's sake. Kush, is it a 1-shot-ability?
@kushm4sta: You may not want to reveal this since it helps mafia decide which of us to kill.
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On April 03 2014 04:59 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 04:57 Amiko wrote:
gumshoe don't die I wanted to go to space T_T
@anyone I don't actually know the etiquette in this situation, am I allowed to question gumshoe right now or do we have to not talk to him until he is confirmed to be alive/dead? Lets talk while we wait for the hammer : D have we considered that the ability to convert targets specifically belongs to 3p? Perhaps thats why slam has been reluctant to talk about his power. Its just I pretty much know scum has kp, having convert as well seems pretty op
I know you are dead, but here's my thoughts-
Slam posted a PM roleclaim earlier which did not include a conversion mechanic. It was basically a survivor that returns green to cop checks and cannot be converted. The lore of his character (Prisoner Zero) seemed like it could have a conversion mechanic (it sort of mind-connects with people), but not that directly.
It is possible there is 3p with conversion, but I feel like there must be at least some faction with KP because otherwise the game would never end (and obviously there is/was a doctor as well).
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I know my earlier post was mostly put to the side since things were happening related to gumshoe, but if anyone has comments on it let me know.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21109993
One thing that may be easy to address-
On April 03 2014 04:46 Amiko wrote:
Votes on Rayn
@anyone in thread
I don’t really understand why there seems to be agreement that there are no scum votes on raynpelikoneet, if you are willing to spend a little time on that I’d appreciate it.
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N1 Target
Also, to be honest I am a little confused at the idea I would be a n1 kill target. Of the players in this game, I think I have the least experience. I don't think I came out with any super strong reads d1. Compared with other players who claimed blue or strongly hinted at it, I either didn't claim blue or, when I did, no one in the thread seemed to notice or comment on it (there was some discussion with JJD but that was D2). Further, there was some indication I get a night action from my interaction with gumshoe.
So... I'm not too sure why I would be a d1 kill target. I mean, I don't see a particularly good regular reason or WIFOM reason to kill me n1 (I am honored though ~).
I'll try to review my own filter when I get home and see if anything seems significant.
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wait...
@kushm4sta:
I think you are cleared green, but I would like answers to the following if you are willing:
- You have a vote affecting power and a one-shot vig power?
- If you had one-shot vig power, did you consider shooting Alakaslam / someone else yesterday?
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@Vivax: Ok. Who do you want me to focus on?
@Djodref: I'll read and get back to you shortly.
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EBWOP to the a few up-
cleared green -> (cleared town)
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Rereading Toadesstern
Toad’s post here (link) feels scummy in context. Basically, he had moved his vote from hopeless1der to raynpelikoneet, but his post suggests to me that he sees hopeless as scummier than rayn.
To expand a little, he explains his scumread on hopeless1der in that post without any reservations. In contrast, his explanation of rayn has caveats and indicates that he wants more time to read rayn.
Now, I have to grant that Toad did move his vote back to hopeless1der in his next post (saying he forgot to change it – http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21091556］link[/url]). But, it still leaves a question as to why he moved it from hopeless1der to rayn earlier.
I am mixed on this post by Toad-
On April 01 2014 06:34 Toadesstern wrote:
I'm basicly saying, it doesn't look like thrawn cared about Rayn being lynched despite having him as 100% certain town
When I re-read thrawn I felt like he was not 100% town on rayn (which Toad says a few times). To be fair, though, after rayn flips thrawn said that rayn was obvious town. So that part I was mixed about.
I am also mixed because I disagree with Toad some - thrawn did seem to try to take steps to avoid the rayn lynch by encouraging people to get onto gumshoe. However, I think it might have been more effective if he tried to get people onto Slam (at least, I was more likely to move onto Slam over Gumshoe, but I guess it was fairly evenly split).
In sum… I don't have a strong read on Toad. sry :c I will consider placing my vote on him to encourage him to give more feedback but won't do so until I get home at the earliest.
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EPT
