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Hope1essrider
Ge seems to have as few posts as I do, but with less content.
After rereading I feel he is scummy based on the following:
- hope1ess seems to criticize rayn's focus on slam as anti-town, but also appears to do the same thing. He asks slam earlier if slam will flip town (encouraging the idea slam will die) and seems to only respond to posts which let him criticize scumhunting. I'm not sure why he votes slam when he does since he seems to see it as a foregone conclusion for quite a while.
- hope1ess sort of weighs in on rayn vs. kita by voting rayn. He also defends one of rayn's arguments regarding kita (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=37#733) and I think that is a fair answer. This doesn't weigh toward him being scum in my eyes.
The scumfeels come here:
On March 31 2014 23:56 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2014 23:52 kitaman27 wrote:On March 31 2014 23:47 Hopeless1der wrote:
kita, rayn wants to 1v1 you. do you accept? Yep, assuming I don't come to the conclusion that you're not pushing a town vs town. rayn is guaranteeing and promising that I am mafia after a 10 sec response to my post. I am presenting a case why he is likely mafia after objectively attempting to lead him down a path to show he is town, reading through his past games for things like mass claim policy and mentioning my reservations showing that I am not 100%, and reading through other players filters to make sure he is the best lynch before deciding. Who do you guys trust more? In my currently preferred scenario, we lynch rayn. If he flips town, hope a vig can get you or slam and probably end up lynching the other one. If he flips scum, ##Unvote: Alakaslam
##Vote: raynpelikoneet
What feels scummy to me is
(1) The important part of the post isn't there. He votes rayn so if he is town, he should feel the second scenario ("If he flips scum,") is more likely to occur and more important, but that's the part that's missing. This feels off.
(2) He has not articulated any preference between rayn and kita but moves off a vote he considers acceptable, even if rayn is town.
Not super strong but his posts are pretty minimal.
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On April 01 2014 11:48 Tehpoofter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2014 11:03 thrawn2112 wrote:
if you have some way to influence the vote secretly and don't tell us now, and we find out later, you are fucked. so best come clean now I just looked at the vote count thing thats interesting. I am putting on my noob pants for this one are there roles that have vote changing or adding mechanics as both alignments? Or is it more indicative of one or the other? Also thrawn yeah lets put pressure on that Vivax scummy guy. I am not as sure on kita cause he didn't seem to listen to rayn so hes not in my town circle with me you and austin. Also Slam is going to be in the circle too even though hes 3rd party he can work with us for now. What do you think about JJD? He has a small filter its easy to read so check it out.
I am gonna shower but I can read JJD after.
I don't see vote changing as necessarily town or mafia. I think in the ## game I read earlier I think there were vote increasing and decreasing mechanics on each side. At the least, in Foundation Mafia both mafia and town could add an extra vote. So, I do not think it is strongly alignment indicative.
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I’m back in thread, I want to mostly comment about the nuke but if anyone wants me to weigh in on something else specifically just let me know.
Giving JJD a Nuke
At the risk of incurring a terrible AlakaCurse… I talked earlier about the Alakaslam vs. gumshoe. I felt Alakaslam was a better safe lynch because
(1) gumshoe was idle(town/scum/3p), Alakaslam was spammy(scum/3p)
(2) if Slam is a survivor or 3p, mafia may want to keep him alive.
Of the people who commented or voted, the preference was:
Alakslam preference: Amiko, JarJarDrinks, Djodref, Vivax, kitaman27 (encouraged slam over gumshoe)
Gumshoe preference: Austinmcc, kushm4sta, thrawn2112, Alakaslam (obvious), tehpoofter
Did not comment or I missed it: Toadesstern, hope1ess
(Hope1ess did vote slam earlier, but I don’t feel he commented on Alakaslam vs. gumshoe)
I mention this both because it may be helpful for me to review later, but also because I feel if someone was going to give the nuke to a player to kill Slam, JJD is a consistent choice with the views expressed yesterday.
Fire ze missiles?
I don’t feel too strongly about whether you nuke slam or someone else today.
However, my preference is absolutely that you use the nuke today because if you hold onto it you are at the very least a tempting conversion/kill target (if you are not scum/3p already).
I have no objection to nuking slam. I do think it is possible to use this nuke as a stick to ensure Slam helps town, but I feel like that comes with a lot of liabilities.
… however, if slam becomes an irradiated hulk monster, well, may god have mercy on our souls.
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On April 02 2014 07:51 Hopeless1der wrote:
2- The nuke that JJD is about to launch?
I think Vivax is asking this:
Your preference was to lynch rayn. If rayn flips town, vig and next lynch take care of slam & kita.
Vivax's question is, why not lynch slam and have vig & next lynch kill rayn & kita?
Or, why not lynch kita and have vig & next lynch kill rayn & slam?
Also, in my earlier post I questioned what Vivax quotes there - you write "If he flips scum, " then nothing else. What were you going to write?
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Oh, my mistake, that was @hope1essrider. Sorry vivax. When he returns would like an answer on that.
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@hope1essrider: I am tempted to sheep dead rayn and feel like usually it's a good idea. But, I have trouble seeing how rayn could be so confident in his vote d1. Have you played with rayn before, do you know if he always presents a d1 read as a sure thing? Or does he only do so when he is sure?
I could read rayn's games a bit but I'd like to be in thread a little longer before I disappear to reread something else, and it'd be nice to hear from some of the players who have been with him before since they may disagree on rayn's meta.
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On April 02 2014 08:05 Hopeless1der wrote:
I thought Vivax was asking why lynch kita instead of lynching slam today.
You may be right and that could be Vivax's question.
But, could you answer the question I thought asked?
( for ease: )
Your preference was to lynch rayn. If rayn flips town, vig and next lynch take care of slam & kita.
Vivax's question is, why not lynch slam and have vig & next lynch kill rayn & kita?
Or, why not lynch kita and have vig & next lynch kill rayn & slam?
I think there is a straightforward answer anyway but eh maybe you'll surprise me 
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On April 02 2014 07:50 Amiko wrote:
Of the people who commented or voted, the preference was:
Alakslam preference: Amiko, JarJarDrinks, Djodref, Vivax, kitaman27 (encouraged slam over gumshoe)
Gumshoe preference: Austinmcc, kushm4sta, thrawn2112, Alakaslam (obvious), tehpoofter
Did not comment or I missed it: Toadesstern, hope1ess
(Hope1ess did vote slam earlier, but I don’t feel he commented on Alakaslam vs. gumshoe)
Also for completionist sake, gumshoe did not comment because he was not here.
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On April 02 2014 08:08 Alakaslam wrote:
Dude epiphany
This is absolutely possible with my role I think
Depends, would have to survive the blast...
Dude I don't know whether I actually want to run that risk voluntarily
Slam don't you feel the game might be more fun if there was a constant threat of a nuke?
Also I'll mention that since no one died last night, it seems significantly less likely that Slam is a serial killer (I remember someone proposed that yesterday).
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On April 02 2014 08:21 Djodref wrote:
Also, to answer austin, I removed Amiko and Toad from my top town reads because they were on rayn lynch, and it's difficult for me to understand how you could decide to lynch rayn yesterday.
1) Toad wasn't on the rayn vote list. I do not think he said he +1'd the rayn lynch (maybe I missed that?) and there has only been speculation that he may have put his +1 on rayn. How do you know he put his vote on rayn?
On April 01 2014 06:07 Crossfire99 wrote:
Vote Count
raynpelikoneet (6) - kitaman27, thrawn2112, Alakaslam, Toadesstern, kushm4sta, Alakaslam, Tehpoofter, raynpelikoneet, Hopeless1der, kitaman27, Amiko, raynpelikoneet
Alakaslam (3) - Toadesstern, kushm4sta, Tehpoofter, thrawn2112, kitaman27, raynpelikoneet, Djodref, Amiko, Hopeless1der, JarJarDrinks, Djodref, Vivax, thrawn2112
Hopeless1der (0) - Toadesstern, raynpelikoneet, Toadesstern, thrawn2112
kitaman27 (0) - raynpelikoneet, raynpelikoneet, raynpelikoneet
gumshoe (3) - thrawn2112, Alakaslam, Tehpoofter, thrawn2112
Tehpoofter (1) - austinmcc
JarJarDrinks (0) - Djodref
thrawn2112 (0) - kitaman27
Toadesstern (0) - raynpelikoneet
Not Voting (1) - gumshoe
raynpelikoneet is lynched! Let me know if I made a mistake or anything.
2) Do you also now have a scummier read of kushm4sta, hopeless1der, and kitaman27?
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^ probably obvious but was @Djodref
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I'll be out for a bit but I have a quick comment to make re: kitaman27 & raynpelikoneet that I don't think I wrote earlier.
When kita was discussing how rayn didn't followup on checking kita, I felt it was highly likely that rayn did not do the research (as opposed to doing the research and then deciding not to use it because it made kita appear scummy).
If rayn had seen that kita mirrored his play in a prior game, I feel rayn could have construed that to be either towny or scummy against kitaman, it's not necessarily town (I think kita even wrote that in his own post). So, I feel like that option is unlikely.
I'm not sure that specific point is still relevant but it was one thing that I noted reading kita's read on rayn.
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@Alakaslam - I think you are the default choice for a nuke (it literally has your name on it). If JJD doesn't nuke you, should he
a) wait to use the nuke?
b) nuke someone else?
and why/who?
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I'm going to be in and out of thread this evening - I want to try URFmode!
A few quick comments-
On April 02 2014 08:34 Djodref wrote:
1) I remember that Toad thought rayn was scum. I'm not sure at which point he said this exactly though. The thing is he was not there or didn't do anything to prevent rayn's lynch. And I think maybe he could have done it. So yeah, I'm going to focus my attention on Toad this cycle.
2) That's right, I'm a little wary of kush and hopeless this cycle. kita looks really decent for me at the moment. I liked his argument that scum kita (or any scum I would say) wouldn't push a rayn lynch. It would be a really ballsy move with a possibility for backfire. Hopeless just posted a very reasonable post last page, but I cannot get rid of the feeling that his vote looked opportunistic. Kush was not there, and I don't remember what he has done this game yet, so maybe he's trying to fly under the radar.
@Djodref: From your answer to #1, you are saying that you believe Toadesstern placed the extra vote on raynpelikoneet.
However, kushm4sta has claimed the extra vote. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=56#1103).
I don't really get a scumread off of you missing that point, and honestly I'd still like you to pay attention to Toad, but if your concern is the extra vote you should be attentive to kushm4sta.
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@JarJarDrinks: I weighed in on nuking earlier. I just want to stress, I don't mind too much if you use it on Slam or someone you feel is more scummy, but I think holding onto it may be anti-town, particularly knowing we have lost a/the anti-conversion role. Besides that?
+ Show Spoiler +
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On April 02 2014 12:07 Tehpoofter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 11:58 JarJarDrinks wrote:On April 02 2014 11:45 Tehpoofter wrote:
It seems like you can wait until closer to your deadline to see if something else comes up like maybe if we have a probable 1 scum 1 town in two people situation we can do like a lynch one shoot one type thing. This line of thinking makes me think that maybe we should consider the mass claim. I'm too lazy to reread the post but can you shoot your nuke at night? Or do you have to do it during the day cycle? cause this would be super ideal for this situation if we got into a 1 scum 1 town lynch if scum save shot shoot someone else thats scummy and other person stays and if the lynch was town obvious scum hit for the nuke.
On April 02 2014 07:08 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +You have received a A Nuke for Slam - by JJD! Type ##Nuke Player (make sure the player’s name is spelled exactly like their full TL user name) in the thread to fire your nuke at them. The nuke must be fired 12 hours before the end of the phase and the nuke will land at the end of that phase. It will ignore medic or vet protection on the target. PM all the hosts to ensure that the nuke was noticed.
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@JarJarDrinks: I am not making that claim.
To explain a little bit - the item description you have has the nuke as "by JJD". To me, this strongly implies that you created the nuke. But, I can't think of a good reason why you would name a nuke "by JJD" and then claim it's not made by you.
I did spend a short time trying to see if JJD might refer to a character in Dr. Who (or a player in the game) but didn't see anything like that.
I discussed the consistency because it was something I reviewed, even if it didn't end up convincing me of anything important. Let's say that d1 you had indicated a strong preference for killing gumshoe over slam. I would then find your claim that you have a nuke to kill slam as suspect. (it was consistent, though)
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Mommy, where do nukes come from? (kidding)
Nuke Timing
On April 02 2014 11:51 austinmcc wrote:
If it were a shot and not a nuke, you could hold it and only fire if you were sure he wasn't going to get modkilled and hadn't done anything of note.
On April 02 2014 12:20 Tehpoofter wrote:
If you can use it at night then I see no reason to shoot it before then unless something else occurs it seems like holding until night is the correct procedure.
It seems to me that the nuke should be fired during the day.
If you fire during the day, your target will not get to use night actions. So if you are targeting a scum player, the player won't get their night conversion. Scum player also lose the opportunity to change their night actions based on the nuke (there may be a yakuza-style role that sacrifices itself to convert, for instance... I don't think that's too likely since no one died n1, but just giving an example).
Holding the nuke until night does give some advantages - you have more information. A flip, a votecount, and more posts.
But, if you think you will use the nuke on a Slam, I don't see how that is beneficial.
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@JarJarDrinks
I don't think scum would give you a nuke to kill Alakaslam. They may be able to joint-win with him, and even if not, Slam seems like a good candidate for either a lynch or to soak a vigi shot/nuke.
It's possible but unlikely to me that scum has to give a nuke to a townie. However, I don't think scum would have to give town a nuke that is named for Slam.
On April 02 2014 13:05 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Though the reason I don't think that's likely is because it would make kita town which I really doubt.
I have no idea what this comment means, please explain it.
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EBWOP: by "named for Slam" I meant that the nuke is named "A Nuke for Slam", as in, whoever made the nuke seems to intend that you nuke slam with it.
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EPT
