EPTCultured Mini Mafia - Page 66
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On February 27 2014 23:14 Vivax wrote: It goes on that the way WoS treated gum throughout his "suspicion" is not townie. Calls him out for lurking, says the post said nothing about gum's alignment, later touches upon that same post to say that town should consider all options. Asks gumshoe for metaless case, gumshoe doesn't deliver. WoS doesn't care that gumshoe doesn't want to share information, and says that he starts to lean sloppy town on gumshoe, yet keeps his vote on him. LOL You're so fucking REDACTED. I DIDN'T CALL HIM OUT FOR LURKING. I ASKED HIM IF HE WAS GOING TO LURK. YOU AREN'T READING THE THREAD, AND NITPICKING WHAT YOU WANT TO MAKE ME LOOK BAD TO MAKE YOURSELF LOOK BETTER> If you read the thread at all around Rayn/gumshoe/me you would KNOW this. You all need to vote Vivax right now. I have shown in my case that his thinking is not indicative of a townie mindset, and he continues to attempt to shit on me through half-assed attempts to call me scum which don't even hold water because he hasn't bothered to read. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 27 2014 23:10 Mocsta wrote: Toad, did you read the context of why I raised that point? It was specifically relating to gumshoe saying he is aware of my mentality because we played scum together. The sad thing is, this is very similar to your position (just opposite decision) with the miller claim (i.e. you would have gone after Rayn as scum) The fact that you are not dropping this, is highly indicative that you are town. I have not. I read how rayn unvoted you +r reasoning and found that giant crap of bullshit, so I just read through the rest of thread real quick and brought it up. I'm going to check up on it again just now. | ||
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Vivax
22414 Posts
The other points still stand. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
Pls read GSL http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=441596&user=VIVAX420&view=all and ctrl +f "~V" Vivax is much more assertive in this game and is paying attention to a variety of reads and is generally transparent with where he is at. This game everything is nitpicking and/or calling things weird but not specifying why they are worth calling out. I want to make another comparison between GSL (town) and this game. This game: On February 27 2014 02:53 Vivax wrote: Jeez why couldn't I roll scum in this game. You guys are all so busy with fighting each other in such an unproductive way, and nobody called me out for not doing anything since I posted those points on gumshoe  Oh well back to lurking. GSL: On February 16 2014 02:39 VIVAX420 wrote: These two posts DO NOT originate from the same mindset.What is that acting like not giving a fuck if you get lynched, it should be in your best interest if you are a townie. First you say you don't have time to post then say it's cause you're lazy. You call a guy scum for no reason, then ask why you should be bothered to write anything about it. Nowhere any intention to see to solve the game. Are you scum or do you just sign up for games to do nothing in them? Everything since the post where kush posts from his own acc has been him btw. Also I'd prefer to wait some more until hammering so I'll unvote. ~V | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
On February 27 2014 23:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: Mocsta found a way to perfectly deflect my case. There is nothing i can do about it. stop the wifom of your mind, that post meant nothing and it's actually more likely to modconfirm him scum than town | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
On February 26 2014 12:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: Now this is exactly what gumshoe does. His scumplay is actually far better than his townplay because he realizes what town wants to hear and contributes towards that. As town he makes absolutely awful posts (sorry gumshoe ^^) that might not say anything at all or have one thought which might be "i don't know what X is doing" and there are 1000 words around it that explain his thoguht process and where he found that information that was in the end useless. He literally posts exactly what is in his mind at that time and it ends up in terrible posts that are like the easiest thing ever to attack. Now the green part in the quote makes me 100% sure WaveofShadow knows this. I also went to check on last couple of games where i remember both of gumshoe and Wave being town and gumshoe making his typical posts: Quiet game mini mafia: EOD1, we have outed mafia. gumshoe comes in 20min before the deadline, ignores the outed mafia and makes a hugeass case on Wave. Wave does not even consider gumshoe being mafia, in fact based on his N1 posting he says the opposite. TL Mafia LXIV: gumshoe makes terrible posts on D1 (like "vote me for mayor because i am so bad") and says nothing all D1. Wave never talks about gumshoe on D1, at all. Now both of these games in addition to my first quote from Wave support my argument that Wave knows gumshoe's meta pretty well. However, in this game, here is Wave's reasoning for voting for gumshoe: Here is the post in question: See, a big fucking thought process that ends in somewhat bad conclusion (that really says nothing). Now Wave's reasoning for calling this conclusion scummy is really terrible. First of all there is nothing scummy to not think about a conclusion you didn't think of because... YOU DIDN'T THINK OF IT! Second of all this is all characteristic to gumshoe's townplay, which Wave very well knows taking account he correctly described gumshoe's town!meta earlier on. This case on gumshoe is horrible and is not from a townie @rayn: So you think gumshoe is town? On February 26 2014 13:27 WaveofShadow wrote: To spite you at this point I suppose. I'm coming around to him but let me get there on my own. Find scum, not reasons to push town gumshoe on me. Now if I'm wrong about suki (which knowing my newbie reads I very well could be), you think that she didn't respond to gumshoe because he is right? @WoS: I don't even understand this suki - gumshoe problem. Why does gumshoe have to be scum or right in order for suki to not take this case serious? On February 26 2014 13:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: No i am saying i do think it's odd that you don't find it odd that a case that is really bad to you doesn't seem any bad to suki, who is the target of the case. Usually townies, when facing a bad case against them call it bad and are very vocal about it, especially when we are talking about suki here, who calls all the cases against her bad when she is town. So this is not odd at all to you? Can someone confirm this meta? On February 26 2014 13:48 Cavalinho wrote: You can read your own analysis of him from, like, a page ago and get an answer. First post?! On February 26 2014 15:19 TheChyz wrote: Ye, I played reckless. So I'm not allowed to play differently and have my philosophies change? Don't know what your leading to. All your doing is pointing out a playstyle that you probably don't agree with. Doesn't mean you have to like it. And im pretty sure both you and I would actually rather try to look for actual scum then keep talking about this thread clogging argument. Yes? So how is your new playstyle helping in finding scum? You seem to only comment on cases when you are asked to. On February 26 2014 16:34 Mocsta wrote: Caught up and re-read Current reads: Wave Suki Gumshoe Calvalinho toadesstern ange777 jarjardrinks vivax geript Holyflare thechyz rayn Will expound in a bit. swamped @ work. How does Calvalinho got a town read? And how did suki go from null to town? On February 26 2014 16:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: I dunno but i think Mocsta just scumslipped. Where? On February 26 2014 17:10 Mocsta wrote: Issues with TheChyz + Show Spoiler + On February 26 2014 10:51 TheChyz wrote: Reading this a few times I take issue not with calling me town, but by him making a reference to the quality of my contributions. This suggests he agrees somewhat with the Suki read (which was my only contribution at the point in time). The rest of his filter lethargically references Suki once.Hi all. Mocsta seems pretty town to me atm. In his last game (as scum, GSL open mini) his contributions in the middle of day 2 or 3 were worse than they seem right now. geript, why is it unlikely that rayn and toad can't be scum together? On February 26 2014 10:53 TheChyz wrote: Firstly, Vivax/Kush were town, so the comparison is not apples to apples - as has already been discussed.Nothing to do with reads, just the way your playing. Back in that game it seemed like you and vivax/kush were just posting to fill up the thread and waste the day. Here it seems more like your actually trying to scum hunt. That combined with the fact you haven't claimed scum yet  Secondly, perhaps you can tie "trying to scum hunt" with the contributions discussed above. However, again, this indicates that either TheChyz agrees with my read (a la Gumshoe) or thinks my motives are genuine. Which is important to keep in mind later. On February 26 2014 11:16 TheChyz wrote: Here, TheChyz casually queries Suki indicating that he does not share my read. The question posed will not provide any alignment indicative response either.Ionno suki, are you going to come in and provide any attempt at reads or just ask questions all day long? As per your question, I have hunches on some things, but nothing I feel is actually worth saying atm. Further, TheChyz is now dangling the "active lurker" carrot; which is odd, considering of all the things he chose to talk about, he wanted to discuss me as a town read -- when I wasn't under any specific heat either. On February 26 2014 11:20 TheChyz wrote: The timing of this post just feel premature and the stance is odd. On one hand it is berating Holyflare for joking; on the other hand, its not asking HF to particpate in any direction that will improve our read on him. Its essentially a slap on the wrist post with no further intent.I'm not sure if this is because this is how he plays but holyflare has been making jokes all day 1. Seems like an easy way to get a free pass on the first day if everybody just knows your gonna joke around. The time for joking 24/7 is over I think, is there anything useful you plan on doing this day holyflare, or just gonna draw some more? On February 26 2014 12:46 TheChyz wrote: The phrasing is not fluid or natural to me.To me it seems more like JJD has only tunneled on Mocsta for a read that mocsta made on suki. Apart from that he has done nothing really after that. Also in bold, I have never as town thought "does calling you something make me look scummy". It's only something scum usually worries about. Regarding fluidity: I think this would be written "Also in bold, as town I never have thought "xxxx" Regarding natural: I know when I've rolled scum, i often write a statement, proof read and then go.. ahh.. let me add "when town" typically at the end. This feels very much the same. i.e. the "as town" component is a last addition designed to give strength to the argument. On February 26 2014 14:42 TheChyz wrote: This post has already been commented by others and I agree. Its an unusual position to take. Normally you would just say "hes null".I don't think he's mafia, but I do think this sentence "But it's way scummier to call you town and sheep that case" is scummy. He is addressing himself to mocsta and basically saying (or this is how I read it, maybe misinterpreted) that if he [JJD] calls Mocsta town and sheeps that case it will make him [JJD] look scummier. And I don't understand why a town would be afraid of having a "scummier" image. If you are town, you know your intent was not scummy and you can give an explanation out of it. However if your scum it seems more likely that you are afraid of your image. On February 26 2014 16:38 TheChyz wrote: The important thing to note is that previously TheChyz stated he would only comment if something is wroth commenting on. So why... is he so fixated on someone calling "Rayn/Toad" town.kk. With geript I still have a problem of how he was so quick to say that rayn and toad couldn't be scum together. There was no explanation why he made that conclusion until I finally made him answer with All of these points are terrible. It seems more like he just put out some random statement and after being asked to answer on it it seems like he is backtracking. See how he goes to make several points. Not only does it seem like he is trying to be over defensive but that most of them are just a big pile of poop. Let's go over the points: 1) I don't even know what chummy means but it seems like the way you guys are acting early on. Again that doesn't really say anything and is something anybody can say about almost anything. 2) He is backtracking to a joke rayn made that makes him town? Well shit i think he just solved mafia. People making jokes = town. I don't understand the context but I believe that is irrelevant. 3) I don't even understand this one. Something again that rayn is towny to him. 4) Saying how its unlikely for something to happen which does not seem unlikely at all. In all of these points, NOTHING again answers why he think rayn and toad cannot be scum together. If anything it seems more like he is developing a rayn town read. This all seems like a load of backtracking and most likely hoping that he wouldn't get called out for his words before hand. Apart from that everything else just has no effort to even try and scum hunt. Thought he was kinda scummy but not this scummy until re-reading his filter now. ##Vote geript He seems to refuse to accept they can both be town; yet, hasnt given a direct indication of his read on either player. Very scummy. In summary: Overall, TheChyz arguments have been weak and offer no insight into his thought process. He is calling out people prematurely (e.g. Holyflare + Rayn/Toad) yet doesnt indicatve whether he reads those players town or scum. He also prematurely calls me town when not under fire for my scumhunting, yet doesnt seem to support my reads. Lastly, he goes out of his way to dodge questions (e.g. to Suki). Now, TheChyz could be super paranoid town that doesnt want to give away information. HOWEVER, I dont attribute his posting as giving that vibe. I suppose this is epitomised by: This is a guy that is intentionally trying to dodge giving out any insight AND THAT is scummy. I don't like the case. I don't like TheChyz myself but this case feels like it's trying too hard. Like when you reproach him for the post regarding Holyflare's paint spree. Yes, he could have phrased his post differently with a direct urge for Holyflare to provide content. But I don't see how (ironically) asking him whether he will continue or not makes TheChyz actually scummy. To me it seems like you are actively trying to put suspicion on all his posts, even on posts that are just null. On February 26 2014 17:59 TheChyz wrote: @Moscta, because most of the cases one me are weak as hell and the only thing I agree with is that I had been making fairly soft cases early on and not pushing my reads. Why would you say that? It's fine if you just make soft cases early on but why would you not push your own reads? On February 26 2014 20:47 Holyflare wrote: TheChyz you were getting called out for your filter not really saying much and your response was that you don't like to call someone mafia for doing 1 scummy thing, yet, in the next few posts you make a case on geript that literally only focuses on 1 aspect of his play (although he has shit all yes). What changed between those few posts that you felt compelled to make a case on someone who isn't doing much, has been talked about for the exact reasons you posted before and is doing nothing before you have even talked to them? + Show Spoiler + On February 26 2014 15:12 TheChyz wrote: You guys can play having 1 scummy thing on someone and immediately call them mafia. I don't. On February 26 2014 16:38 TheChyz wrote: kk. With geript I still have a problem of how he was so quick to say that rayn and toad couldn't be scum together. There was no explanation why he made that conclusion until I finally made him answer with All of these points are terrible. It seems more like he just put out some random statement and after being asked to answer on it it seems like he is backtracking. See how he goes to make several points. Not only does it seem like he is trying to be over defensive but that most of them are just a big pile of poop. Let's go over the points: 1) I don't even know what chummy means but it seems like the way you guys are acting early on. Again that doesn't really say anything and is something anybody can say about almost anything. 2) He is backtracking to a joke rayn made that makes him town? Well shit i think he just solved mafia. People making jokes = town. I don't understand the context but I believe that is irrelevant. 3) I don't even understand this one. Something again that rayn is towny to him. 4) Saying how its unlikely for something to happen which does not seem unlikely at all. In all of these points, NOTHING again answers why he think rayn and toad cannot be scum together. If anything it seems more like he is developing a rayn town read. This all seems like a load of backtracking and most likely hoping that he wouldn't get called out for his words before hand. Apart from that everything else just has no effort to even try and scum hunt. Thought he was kinda scummy but not this scummy until re-reading his filter now. Did kiterayn just fly away on you? ##Vote geript I like this. Page 34. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On February 27 2014 23:18 Holyflare wrote: wave wanna chat about the vivax stuff now? I don't know what else there is to chat about. Guy is super obvscum. Did you read what's been going down over the last few pages? Anything to say about it? | ||
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Vivax
22414 Posts
This game everything is nitpicking and/or calling things weird but not specifying why they are worth calling out. Post examples. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On February 27 2014 23:22 Holyflare wrote: stop the wifom of your mind, that post meant nothing and it's actually more likely to modconfirm him scum than town No i don't really want to. You all can lynch Mocsta if you want to. My game was ruined D1 and i don't care. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
Provides sort of a fresh perspective on things. Now I can actually have a reason other than pregame not to vote her. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On February 27 2014 23:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: No i don't really want to. You all can lynch Mocsta if you want to. My game was ruined D1 and i don't care. Rayn the fuck are you talking about? If you're going to ignore the modconfirmation shit just ignore it. Are you honestly just going to give up now? Is it because you're playing in that other game too? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
Many have already been posted, you are intentionally ignoring. Another difference with GSL. You were always asking questions to the thread with an uncertain conclusion; here, the conclusion is made up and you are telling people. | ||
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Vivax
22414 Posts
On February 27 2014 03:34 Vivax wrote: Yeah can you go into detail on these posts you felt were off please? I responded to one of those, where he asked me why I would focus on gumshoe when others already discussed him (which is something I don't understand from a townie point of view) So, where is the certain conclusion Moc? I was always doing blabla in GSL and now I'm always doing blabla. What a load of crap, and zero examples to back it up. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
On February 27 2014 23:39 Vivax wrote: Question to geript about WoS: So, where is the certain conclusion Moc? I was always doing blabla in GSL and now I'm always doing blabla. What a load of crap, and zero examples to back it up. you do realise you are responding to me identically to how i responded to kush in GSL lol anyways, my votes on you. this is pointless | ||
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