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United Kingdom30774 Posts
ebwop
On February 27 2014 09:20 Vivax wrote:
That post kinda makes me more confident that he's scum. He doesn't fight back.
I have a major problem about your reads and mocsta does highlight that too. You initially say you don't want to talk to people unless they are around, that's ok, i've seen people play like that, then you start to post cases about other people when they aren't around, at this point it's looking more suspect because they can't defend themselves at that present moment and when that falls flat on your face you change your read on gumshoe because thread sentiment is lynching mocsta and the only reason you give for it is
On February 27 2014 07:31 Vivax wrote:I'll sheep ya, Rayn. I want to add a few points though. Filterskim reveals a very passive Mocsta, no cases on people he believes to be scum since he has been put into the defensive. What I also don't understand is how he townreads WoS out of nowhere. He looked scummy to you, he looks scummy to me, and for him it's the strongest townread, and then he asks a question like this, which shouldn't interest him in the slightest if he's town imo: Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 01:30 Mocsta wrote:On February 27 2014 01:28 geript wrote:
Toadescum. Idgaf what you think or ever thought about claiming miller. It's trolly regardless and I wish Palmar were here to help lynch you. Where do you stand with Wave currently? ##Unvote
##Vote MocstaPutting WoS on the backfire for now. Mocsta is a more solid (and likely) lynch.
the only reason you want to join this bandwagon is that he is passive and gives a town read on your scum read out of nowhere, yet, this is the ONLY reason compared to your wall of text on wave and your pressure on gumshoe
why are you sheeping so hard? why has your play devolved from what you think is best to wanting to fit in the most when needed to? your biggest scum read is seemingly wave but you're happy to lynch mocsta based on unflipped associations to a wonky read but when your other original scum read (gumshoe) did this on suki/mocsta at the start he can now be town?
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"I don't talk to people when they aren't around". No, just no. You asked me why I wasn't asking gumshoe stuff like I did to geript, and that's cause there was no point in asking short questions to gum without the chance of getting an immediate answer. Don't overgeneralize or take things out of context.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On February 27 2014 09:31 Vivax wrote:
"I don't talk to people when they aren't around". No, just no. You asked me why I wasn't asking gumshoe stuff like I did to geript, and that's cause there was no point in asking short questions to gum without the chance of getting an immediate answer. Don't overgeneralize or take things out of context.
that is the most fucking irrelevant part of that entire post
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You needed a taste of your own medicine
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
i do not care what you write about me i want you to respond to the rest of it
why can gumshoe be town after he posted that weird town read on mocsta at the start but mocsta is your vote for doing the same thing on wave and then you vote him over your main scum read wave
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VIVAX
Let's begin:
On February 26 2014 16:18 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 10:08 gumshoe wrote:
Mocsta seems into it this game, overall just sharper off the bat then when I was scum together with him just a few days ago. Hes been rolling red alot lately and thats been frustrating him, but I hear none of that agitation in his posts so far. Preliminary read of course, but I feel good about his accusation not coming from a place of deceit. So now I'm left wondering, is he right about Suki? Suki's post doesn't quite feel like it was thought out days in advance, (it's a fairly sloppy one and obviously susceptible to critique) but it does feel crafted, which gives me the sense that she read her pm an hour ago and started over thinking her opening. The post itself is also one that calls back to old games, an attempt at inducing nostalgia. How someones posting makes us feel can easily influence our perception of them and the harry potter claim might be aiming for that.
If Suki isn't scum she's either a) nervous, or b) baiting. Suki, which explanation do you prefer? What I don't like about this post is that he can't simply say what he thinks about suki, but feels like has to put a Mocsta townread in front of it. That reads to me like he feels pressured to overjustify for picking a side in the debate, which is something I could see scum doing in a town vs. town argument, after all you're always painfully aware that what you say just isn't right, so you need to create a story. And this looks like a story, the story of how you think suki could be scum ONLY after thinking that mocsta is town, which is something I don't see townies do at D1. Explanation: Gumshoe feels that he can't attack suki without supporting Moc cause he thinks that he would look like his lacking suspicion of Mocsta was unjustified. Like, in a hypothetical town vs town argument as scum you would think that you can't attack one townie without clearing the other. Moreover you can see that the part about Mocsta could be construed (in best-case scenario, ie gum town) as a justification for sheeping him ("but I feel good about his accusation not coming from a place of deceit"), but gumshoe doesn't exactly use Mocsta's arguments (tryhard looking posts, "why-not-vote-for-me-question") and brings his own, which strengthens the overjustification version of events.
The last bit with the nostalgia is either overanalyzing (if town) or making stuff up (if scum), so I think it should be disregarded entirely for now (@ geript). _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Nitpicking from this case is strictly forbidden, either you address all points and give a conclusive opinion or your remarks will be ignored.
Vivax's opening post (not counting the geript townseal horseshit).
Initially when I looked at this I thought it was worth some town points given that he can come up with a narrative on gumshoe that made a good deal of sense and was from a POV I nor anyone else in the thread had considered thus far. I was wrong about this as Rayn showed me---JJD essentially mentioned it earlier, though obviously not nearly this fleshed-out. It's actually not too bad except for two things.
The first being the bolded section: gumshoe 'overjustifies' by giving reasons for sheeping Mocsta and trying to bring his own opinion to someone else's case/scumread. Townies do this all the friggin' time, and I see no reason why this is scum-indicative alone. If town doesn't want to sheep for no reason then gumshoe is doing the right thing AND providing his own reasons for agreeing with Mocsta. The second problem with this was brought up before: why now?
Vivax finally explains here after being endlessly prodded:
No, I didn't read all of it at that point. I just found that post scummy and wrote the points right off the bat.
Now there is nothing wrong with that on its own but Vivax shows here that he has none of the townie desire to 'get to the bottom of things' and figure out what gumshoe's alignment truly is.
I find the post 'interesting' as I mentioned earlier and he posts this:
Interesting perspective isn't an opinion, Wave. And showing past posts that give you the impression that somebody could be scum is the essence of this game. How does gum having already been discussed affect the points brought up? it's completely irrelevant.
How is the fact that there was a MASSIVE discussion around determining gumshoe's alignment irrelevant if that is the purpose of posting a case on him in the first place? Like that's basic scumhunting 101---find scum. Vivax posts a case and just asks for comments, he doesn't actually seem to be interested in figuring out gumshoe at all. + Show Spoiler +(BAD ASSOCIATION READ - never mind the fact that an obvious answer as to why he brought up gumshoe is as scum he doesn't want a town mislynch of gumshoe off the table, but that's weak. Just something to consider)
On February 27 2014 02:53 Vivax wrote:Jeez why couldn't I roll scum in this game. You guys are all so busy with fighting each other in such an unproductive way, and nobody called me out for not doing anything since I posted those points on gumshoe  Oh well back to lurking.
I mentioned this post earlier and immediately I got the willies. Shitting on thread atmosphere when basically everyone in here has been (apparently) earnestly trying in one form or another to do some determination, and Vivax has the nerve to come in here after doing dick all and call out others. Also important to note is the preemptive lurker call. This is scum mindset right here: call myself out for something real easy so nobody else has the chance to do so. And hey, if anyone brings this up, I can always say: "Well why as scum would I draw attention to myself in that way?" There are many scum who have no issues drawing attention to themselves, me included. Vivax doesn't strike me as being afraid of the spotlight. It sounds WIFOMy but it absolutely isn't. It shows clear scum guilt and a scum mindset. Town has absolutely no reason to post this.
On February 27 2014 04:28 Vivax wrote:
I thought we were supposed to gather information for town, not just for ourselves. Hence it matters to everyone why you ask questions that seem to lead to nowhere except for shitting up the thread with information that nobody can use productively cause the answers you request are mostly nobrainers, like the next one:
Gumshoe has my points to comment on, he can explain why he felt like he had to townread one and scumread the other, and why he calls suki scummy, then asks which circumstance is the correct explanation for her behavior in the case that she's town (which looks like he's offering her an out, taking away pressure from her).
He basically gave her two possible explanations for her behaviour to pick from that don't picture her as scummy, and that after mentioning points that point to him thinking the opposite.
And yet, this:
On February 27 2014 04:37 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 04:27 JarJarDrinks wrote:
vivax, how do you feel about Chyz or the people voting him? I find it odd that you haven't mentioned him despite the fact that he's got 4 votes on him right now. I'd rather find it odd/scummy if I had mentioned the vote-leader and not anyone else. Leave no stone unturned. I don't think he's scum at the moment. I'd rather not expand on the reasons cause: 1. I could be wrong and I'd be taking away pressure from him. 2. I prefer to focus on the people I find suspicious.
Vivax puts a lot of effort into making a case that calls me hypocritical and yet does similar things himself. He calls out gumshow for not gathering info for town and yet town wants his Chyz read,which he refuses to offer.
He gives his reasoning later in here:
On February 27 2014 08:21 Vivax wrote:
Imagine you're scum and a townie defends you thinking you're town.
Imagine you're town and a townie defends you when you're not really at acute danger
Imagine you're town and a scum defends you.
All alternatives aren't really attractive except for the scum party involved, except when you're at realistic danger of being lynched, which you weren't.
Shouting your townreads out loud without need only helps scum in picking their targets, for the nightkill and for lynches. They will know who they can push safely without facing resistance and who they have to NK.
Besides, town shouldn't spend time circlejerking around why somebody is town in such situations, but why somebody is scum. Of course it's situational, and in your case I didn't feel the need to redeem you from anything to find scum. I simply didn't find you scummy like others did, and that's all town needs to know.
But I disagree with this, and apparently so does Rayn. I find absolutely no reasoning why you can't provide a townread, ESPECIALLY when providing said townread allows people to get a read of YOU. It has NOTHING to do with town circlejerking around each other's reads, this post makes it simply seem like you're avoiding giving the Chyz read above because it's bullshit and you don't want people reading you because of it.
Vivax's points also reek of someone who is trying to come up with justification as he goes along:
On February 27 2014 05:39 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 05:27 WaveofShadow wrote:
Fucking school internet
Vivax difference between you and me is I haven't looked into chyz yet but I want to, as it is relevant to thread interest right now. I don't take a stance on him yet because it doesn't make sense for me to have one before reading. You give a read based on.....? And then refuse to elaborate further.
Those two things are most certainly not the same thing. Can you explain to me how you can find me suspicious for not-scumreading a guy you didn't even look into yet? You want to hear reasons for him being something when you don't even know what he wrote? What would you do with these reasons when you didn't even reach any own conclusions you could compare the information with? But you're suspicious cause I give reasons for not talking about my read on him when you give out reads for "feels"? ##Vote WaveOfShadow
Already commented on this---uses 'feels' to try to make me look bad even though whether 'feels' are ACTUALLY bad or not doesn't matter worth a damn to me and people who have played with me since I started using them know that. Has absolutely nothing to do with the main set of points he tries to use against me---the perceived hypocrisy which in fact, ISN'T.
On February 27 2014 06:49 Vivax wrote:
After rereading GSL IV I gotta say that I find gumshoe a lot less scummy. Basically all he has been doing in that game was justifying for people he could lynch, summarizing stuff and defending himself.
Here he actively participates in discussions, and I'm confident in stating that the post tone is a lot different.
Doesn't change where I stand with WoS though. Multiple of his actions don't make sense from a town point of view, him abandoning the gumshoe vote so quickly, suspecting me for not commenting on a player he doesn't know anything about, the not delivered look at a gumshoe scumgame he promised.
He neglects to mention this last point in that case full of effort I linked above, why just drop it here? Oh I know, just looking for more random crap to paint me in a scummy light, despite the fact that (as I already explained) I did in fact read the gumshoe scumgame and it was part of what very obviously led me to be very unsure of gumshoe's alignment as he is hyper-aware of his own meta.
More 'justification trying' below:
Complains about gumshoe sheeping weakly while adding a random point for overjustification earlier...well what do you know! Look here!
On February 27 2014 07:31 Vivax wrote:I'll sheep ya, Rayn. I want to add a few points though. Filterskim reveals a very passive Mocsta, no cases on people he believes to be scum since he has been put into the defensive. What I also don't understand is how he townreads WoS out of nowhere. He looked scummy to you, he looks scummy to me, and for him it's the strongest townread, and then he asks a question like this, which shouldn't interest him in the slightest if he's town imo: Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 01:30 Mocsta wrote:On February 27 2014 01:28 geript wrote:
Toadescum. Idgaf what you think or ever thought about claiming miller. It's trolly regardless and I wish Palmar were here to help lynch you. Where do you stand with Wave currently? ##Unvote
##Vote MocstaPutting WoS on the backfire for now. Mocsta is a more solid (and likely) lynch.
'FIlterskim-' yeah that basically sums up Vivax's efforts this game. Association reads Mocsta based on his random-ass townread of me and takes a basically inane question and calls it scummy. Bingo, good enough to sheep Rayn!
TL;DR
Vivax has a clear scum agenda throughout his posting. He has no desire to actually read through the filters of any of his scumspects (Mocsta, me, gumshoe), provides weak reads that are all then dropped---he cba to actually figure out the alignment of the people he talks about because he doesn't have to DO that as scum. When he does he comes up with his reads and what he wants to do FIRST and adds in weak justification points later---not the towny way, bro.
Vivax is obvscum to me at this point. A much stronger read than Mocsta (at least to me) and I believe he needs to be lynched.
No more ignoring the points I'm bringing up about Vivax, I expect people to read this and if they still find Vivax towny, I want to know WHY. If you're all still on Mocsta you can at the very least have a look at this before he comes back.
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On February 27 2014 09:26 Vivax wrote:
I thought you were town cause you sounded a lot more confident than in GSL, but now you sound TOO confident gum.
Rayn do you buy this?
Is gumshoe scum?
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Oh and I see Mocsta DID get back and he posted some shitty reads thing.
kk.
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I'll give it a read tomorrow and answer it that time. It's 1:40am right now, see you in 12 hours or so.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
man wave, i've said all of that shit already :D:D:D:D
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On February 27 2014 09:42 Holyflare wrote:
man wave, i've said all of that shit already :D:D:D:D
Horseshit, I want the creds, man.
Show me
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On February 27 2014 09:35 Holyflare wrote:
i do not care what you write about me i want you to respond to the rest of it
why can gumshoe be town after he posted that weird town read on mocsta at the start but mocsta is your vote for doing the same thing on wave and then you vote him over your main scum read wave
My read on gumshoe is currently mostly based on meta.
I don't recall Mocsta giving WoS a townread the same way gumshoe did. Point me to it.
"Main scum read". I can change scumreads like I can change shoes for all I care, provided sound reasoning. Besides, what would I gain from pushing a guy nobody currently wants to lynch. After all there are three scum, nothing speaks against trying my luck elsewhere.
Counterquestion: You're like the second guy on the mocsta wagon if I recall correctly. You call gumshoe's reason for giving him a townread weird, and you are untouched by his confidence that mocsta is town. Yet I don't see you poking gumshoe about that. What gives?
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Wave I asked geript that question not to be inane but to try and push him to comment on something familiar to him other than toad.
I don't disagree with vivax but u confuse me selfishly.
He's a stronger read than me??? U think I'm a possibility for scum?
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lol HF I'm so inspired this game. Maybe I really should only get scum every once in a while---I'm beginning to understand why most people like town>>>scum.
I think it was on scumSkype where I was talking about how I haven't had a good town game where I caught scum since the LXII/Witchcraft/Golden Sun era.
Simply proving myself towny in every game is nice and all, butat the very leat it's not enough for me this time around. Going to fucking lynch me some scummerzzzzz
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On February 27 2014 09:41 WaveofShadow wrote:
Oh and I see Mocsta DID get back and he posted some shitty reads thing.
kk.
I really dunno what u want or expect from me.
Not a single person has explained why my actions are scum mindset only.
Rayn the only one that attempted to do this.again, I have no idea what ya problem is.
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On February 27 2014 09:47 Mocsta wrote:
Wave I asked geript that question not to be inane but to try and push him to comment on something familiar to him other than toad.
I don't disagree with vivax but u confuse me selfishly.
He's a stronger read than me??? U think I'm a possibility for scum?
Are you actually around to talk?
I don't HAVE a good read on you like most other people seem to (my own weakness---I never am able to read you particularly well) but as Rayn/Toad feel good about it if it came down to it I would have too if I hadn't looked into Vivax---Vivax sheeping along means nothing.
And yeah I know the question isn't inane, I ask stuff like that all the time but I was giving Vivax the benefit of the doubt for the sake of my case.
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On February 27 2014 09:26 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 09:25 Vivax wrote:On February 27 2014 09:24 gumshoe wrote:On February 27 2014 09:20 Vivax wrote:
That post kinda makes me more confident that he's scum. He doesn't fight back. Opposite for me ) : Mocsta would be a lot more spiteful here as scum, shit like "lol, this town sucks" here he just sounds sad, first time he roles town in ages and hes day 1 lynched. Wat³ You heard me, all in, Mocsta is town. OK. This really seems like a scumslip and then Phony confidence to cover it up.
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Hey so I've been in class all day and it sucks just posting on my phone here.should be home ina few hours
I think mocsta is town after mulling over it for the day and reading his post just now . He was really active and also his explanation about how he is town and I'm reading him wrong just felt ttown
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Not sure who I pick for scum.really gotta read wheni get home.. Not being able to play is killing me lol.
##unvote mocsta
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One thing. There are too many people being called out for scummy. Town is ina horrible atmosphere right now which indicates to me that scum are actively stirring shit up
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On February 27 2014 09:50 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 09:47 Mocsta wrote:
Wave I asked geript that question not to be inane but to try and push him to comment on something familiar to him other than toad.
I don't disagree with vivax but u confuse me selfishly.
He's a stronger read than me??? U think I'm a possibility for scum? Are you actually around to talk? I don't HAVE a good read on you like most other people seem to (my own weakness---I never am able to read you particularly well) but as Rayn/Toad feel good about it if it came down to it I would have too if I hadn't looked into Vivax---Vivax sheeping along means nothing. And yeah I know the question isn't inane, I ask stuff like that all the time but I was giving Vivax the benefit of the doubt for the sake of my case.
Not really able to talk or think deeply.
I dunno this is annoying. I have to focus on work but I can't stop refrshing
If u want something ask it. And if its detailed I will give it a crack at lunch time in say 4 hrs.
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EPT
