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On February 27 2014 08:21 Vivax wrote:
Imagine you're scum and a townie defends you thinking you're town.
Imagine you're town and a townie defends you when you're not really at acute danger
Imagine you're town and a scum defends you.
All alternatives aren't really attractive except for the scum party involved, except when you're at realistic danger of being lynched, which you weren't.
Shouting your townreads out loud without need only helps scum in picking their targets, for the nightkill and for lynches. They will know who they can push safely without facing resistance and who they have to NK.
Besides, town shouldn't spend time circlejerking around why somebody is town in such situations, but why somebody is scum. Of course it's situational, and in your case I didn't feel the need to redeem you from anything to find scum. I simply didn't find you scummy like others did, and that's all town needs to know.
Now this is not really what translates to clarity and transparent so i heavily disagree with this post.
There is no reason why one should not give out townreads, especially with reasoning. I understand the "useless" part but if half of the players find someone scummy and you don't, there is no reason to do what you did, which is you said "TheChyz is not scum but i won't tell you why".
You cut off the bad cases if you know better because it gives people a better read on you and if you are right it forces the town to focus on targets that are important.
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I still don't understand vivax why you wouldn't take a look at me after quiet a bit of the voting has gone my way. Do you somehow know I'm town? My filter is short enough so it surely is not the effort required.
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On February 27 2014 08:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 08:18 Cavalinho wrote:On February 27 2014 08:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Cavalinho why are your posts so short and lack content unlike the last game? Because I died immediately last game. I'm going to try being much more measured instead of just posting shit and seeing what happens. But you were not posting shit. The town was shit and you were the most townie person in that game. There is no reason to not do anything you did in that game.
This post makes me very happy.
Very well, I'll tell you what I think we should be doing today.
I think we should be lynching between geript, TheChyz, and Mocsta.
TheChyz still has yet to answer to what I was saying before, and that's really starting to bug me. I think the only reason he dropped his scumread on JJD is because he was pressured. Unless I've overlooked something, I have yet to see him respond to my accusations that I posted before, and I'm not sure why you don't think he's scum.
Mocsta has yet to elaborate on his reads. When reading them, I thought they made absolutely no sense because at the time you were pressuring Chyz pretty hard and it seemed impossible that you and he were mafia together. (However, I have yet to see your answer on why you townread or at the very least nullread Chyz, so this is still a possibility.)
Geript is unreadable. I don't understand where he's coming from and his posts don't really make a whole lot of sense to me. If he doesn't make himself clear to me soon, I feel like pushing a lynch on him soon is going to be a necessity so I can get a much more solid read on the game.
I also want to see more from JJD. That is all.
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On February 27 2014 08:29 TheChyz wrote:
I still don't understand vivax why you wouldn't take a look at me after quiet a bit of the voting has gone my way. Do you somehow know I'm town? My filter is short enough so it surely is not the effort required.
when will you answer this?
On February 26 2014 20:47 Holyflare wrote:TheChyz you were getting called out for your filter not really saying much and your response was that you don't like to call someone mafia for doing 1 scummy thing, yet, in the next few posts you make a case on geript that literally only focuses on 1 aspect of his play (although he has shit all yes). What changed between those few posts that you felt compelled to make a case on someone who isn't doing much, has been talked about for the exact reasons you posted before and is doing nothing before you have even talked to them? + Show Spoiler +On February 26 2014 15:12 TheChyz wrote:
You guys can play having 1 scummy thing on someone and immediately call them mafia. I don't. On February 26 2014 16:38 TheChyz wrote:kk. With geript I still have a problem of how he was so quick to say that rayn and toad couldn't be scum together. There was no explanation why he made that conclusion until I finally made him answer with Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 12:33 geript wrote:On February 26 2014 12:26 TheChyz wrote:
Hey geript I'm not a moron you know. My memory lasts more than a few minutes. Would you mind explain why rayn and toad can't be scum together. (for the third time...) A few things. One is how chummy they are early makes it unlikely they'd be together. Second, Rayn is probably town for his geript cop joke; it took me like 3 minutes to get that one. Third, I like Rayn's WoS vote and minor push; WoS has been trolling really weird to start off with and isn't his usual witty self. Fourth, they wouldn't both likely push back against me as scum together this early. Like I'm apparently unreadable to people which is totally crazy in my mind. All of these points are terrible. It seems more like he just put out some random statement and after being asked to answer on it it seems like he is backtracking. See how he goes to make several points. Not only does it seem like he is trying to be over defensive but that most of them are just a big pile of poop. Let's go over the points: 1) I don't even know what chummy means but it seems like the way you guys are acting early on. Again that doesn't really say anything and is something anybody can say about almost anything. 2) He is backtracking to a joke rayn made that makes him town? Well shit i think he just solved mafia. People making jokes = town. I don't understand the context but I believe that is irrelevant. 3) I don't even understand this one. Something again that rayn is towny to him. 4) Saying how its unlikely for something to happen which does not seem unlikely at all. In all of these points, NOTHING again answers why he think rayn and toad cannot be scum together. If anything it seems more like he is developing a rayn town read. This all seems like a load of backtracking and most likely hoping that he wouldn't get called out for his words before hand. Apart from that everything else just has no effort to even try and scum hunt. Thought he was kinda scummy but not this scummy until re-reading his filter now. Did kiterayn just fly away on you? ##Vote geript
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Not sure what you mean but I'm pretty sure I've answered you twice. I had on JJD my scum read cause he seemed really scummy from the thing he posted. It ended up being I misinterpreted it and I dropped the case. Idk why you are still so adamant about this since this is my 3rd time answering.
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On February 27 2014 08:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 08:21 Vivax wrote:
Imagine you're scum and a townie defends you thinking you're town.
Imagine you're town and a townie defends you when you're not really at acute danger
Imagine you're town and a scum defends you.
All alternatives aren't really attractive except for the scum party involved, except when you're at realistic danger of being lynched, which you weren't.
Shouting your townreads out loud without need only helps scum in picking their targets, for the nightkill and for lynches. They will know who they can push safely without facing resistance and who they have to NK.
Besides, town shouldn't spend time circlejerking around why somebody is town in such situations, but why somebody is scum. Of course it's situational, and in your case I didn't feel the need to redeem you from anything to find scum. I simply didn't find you scummy like others did, and that's all town needs to know. Now this is not really what translates to clarity and transparent so i heavily disagree with this post. There is no reason why one should not give out townreads, especially with reasoning. I understand the "useless" part but if half of the players find someone scummy and you don't, there is no reason to do what you did, which is you said "TheChyz is not scum but i won't tell you why". You cut off the bad cases if you know better because it gives people a better read on you and if you are right it forces the town to focus on targets that are important.
that posts actually makes sense considering it's Vivax. Not solely because Vivax but also because of the time he last played.
His last game was LIX if I'm not mistaken, that's a year ago.
Imo it was "meta" back than to not talk about townreads until you got for a clean swipe and have pretty much everyone figured out because single townreads are incredibly easy to fake for mafia due to the fact that they don't even have to lie about them.
Therefore, single townreads that weren't at the very beginning of d1 were commonly referred to as fluff and trying to look like you're doing something while not actually doing anything.
I especially was someone who took a book out of that note and I still don't think it's a good thing to post single town-reads at all. If you're a good player and have 90% of the people figured and and can lynch based on method of elimination by all means, post town reads but other than that, not really.
Again, I in particular were someone who kept saying so and I in particular bullied Vivax quite a bit in his last game. Seems plausable to have this idea for him. Also looks like he's really trying to improve considering that last game he was in.
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Holy SHIT
On February 27 2014 07:59 TheChyz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 05:46 Holyflare wrote:Still want thechyz to answer this by the way it's the only thing i want him to write about before i get a stance on him x_x On February 26 2014 20:47 Holyflare wrote:TheChyz you were getting called out for your filter not really saying much and your response was that you don't like to call someone mafia for doing 1 scummy thing, yet, in the next few posts you make a case on geript that literally only focuses on 1 aspect of his play (although he has shit all yes). What changed between those few posts that you felt compelled to make a case on someone who isn't doing much, has been talked about for the exact reasons you posted before and is doing nothing before you have even talked to them? + Show Spoiler +On February 26 2014 15:12 TheChyz wrote:
You guys can play having 1 scummy thing on someone and immediately call them mafia. I don't. On February 26 2014 16:38 TheChyz wrote:kk. With geript I still have a problem of how he was so quick to say that rayn and toad couldn't be scum together. There was no explanation why he made that conclusion until I finally made him answer with Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 12:33 geript wrote:On February 26 2014 12:26 TheChyz wrote:
Hey geript I'm not a moron you know. My memory lasts more than a few minutes. Would you mind explain why rayn and toad can't be scum together. (for the third time...) A few things. One is how chummy they are early makes it unlikely they'd be together. Second, Rayn is probably town for his geript cop joke; it took me like 3 minutes to get that one. Third, I like Rayn's WoS vote and minor push; WoS has been trolling really weird to start off with and isn't his usual witty self. Fourth, they wouldn't both likely push back against me as scum together this early. Like I'm apparently unreadable to people which is totally crazy in my mind. All of these points are terrible. It seems more like he just put out some random statement and after being asked to answer on it it seems like he is backtracking. See how he goes to make several points. Not only does it seem like he is trying to be over defensive but that most of them are just a big pile of poop. Let's go over the points: 1) I don't even know what chummy means but it seems like the way you guys are acting early on. Again that doesn't really say anything and is something anybody can say about almost anything. 2) He is backtracking to a joke rayn made that makes him town? Well shit i think he just solved mafia. People making jokes = town. I don't understand the context but I believe that is irrelevant. 3) I don't even understand this one. Something again that rayn is towny to him. 4) Saying how its unlikely for something to happen which does not seem unlikely at all. In all of these points, NOTHING again answers why he think rayn and toad cannot be scum together. If anything it seems more like he is developing a rayn town read. This all seems like a load of backtracking and most likely hoping that he wouldn't get called out for his words before hand. Apart from that everything else just has no effort to even try and scum hunt. Thought he was kinda scummy but not this scummy until re-reading his filter now. Did kiterayn just fly away on you? ##Vote geript I was getting shit for playing the way I wanted to play and people wouldn't stop circlejerking around the fact that I don't play like they expect. So instead of trying to argue about philosophies in which is such a tangential topic I decided that I would have to learn to play the TL way and give them what they expect of me and that is to make a case. And also I had my thoughts on geript as most scummy for quiet some time in the game so thats why I talked about him.
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and that doesn't answer what i asked at all
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actually yeh it does ignore me
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Okay Cavalinho, that makes sense.
Why i am townreading TheChyz is this post:
On February 26 2014 17:02 TheChyz wrote:
Just some stuff on you and WoS clogging up the thread with your discussion surrounding gumshoe. It just felt like it was going no where and more like an ego thing at the end (which if I remember correctly I think WoS sayed he kept his vote in spite or something along those lines).
Also suki just rubbing me the wrong way with here weird defensiveness and interactions with mocsta. Not sure what but something from reading her filter just doesn't seem right.
And somethings on mocsta but I have to re-read his filter to see what. Mostly I just remember his very jumpy nature from a target to another and his vote is very weak in my opinion.
But nothing I think will lead anywhere atm and just something to maybe keep an eye
What was going on at this point of the game was that he was accused of contributing nothing and just saying some half-arsed stuff. What does he do? He gives more half-arsed stuff, but he answers what he is asked for. I actually thought this post was really scummy because it's so goddamn wishy-washy, but then i thought to myself after he answered me on the "hunches" thing:
Does this make sense from mafia perspective? No. If TheChyz was mafia he would know he is (correctly) under pressure. What would (especially new) mafia do in that situation. Well i would make damn sure my story sticks and i give precise answers and not some wishy-washy crap. In fact this post looks like he skimmed over my question and gave me an answer from top of his head, which i find REALLY unlike for him to do if he was mafia.
Also his later responses to me regarding this support that.
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On February 27 2014 08:39 TheChyz wrote:Holy SHIT Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 07:59 TheChyz wrote:On February 27 2014 05:46 Holyflare wrote:Still want thechyz to answer this by the way it's the only thing i want him to write about before i get a stance on him x_x On February 26 2014 20:47 Holyflare wrote:TheChyz you were getting called out for your filter not really saying much and your response was that you don't like to call someone mafia for doing 1 scummy thing, yet, in the next few posts you make a case on geript that literally only focuses on 1 aspect of his play (although he has shit all yes). What changed between those few posts that you felt compelled to make a case on someone who isn't doing much, has been talked about for the exact reasons you posted before and is doing nothing before you have even talked to them? + Show Spoiler +On February 26 2014 15:12 TheChyz wrote:
You guys can play having 1 scummy thing on someone and immediately call them mafia. I don't. On February 26 2014 16:38 TheChyz wrote:kk. With geript I still have a problem of how he was so quick to say that rayn and toad couldn't be scum together. There was no explanation why he made that conclusion until I finally made him answer with Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 12:33 geript wrote:On February 26 2014 12:26 TheChyz wrote:
Hey geript I'm not a moron you know. My memory lasts more than a few minutes. Would you mind explain why rayn and toad can't be scum together. (for the third time...) A few things. One is how chummy they are early makes it unlikely they'd be together. Second, Rayn is probably town for his geript cop joke; it took me like 3 minutes to get that one. Third, I like Rayn's WoS vote and minor push; WoS has been trolling really weird to start off with and isn't his usual witty self. Fourth, they wouldn't both likely push back against me as scum together this early. Like I'm apparently unreadable to people which is totally crazy in my mind. All of these points are terrible. It seems more like he just put out some random statement and after being asked to answer on it it seems like he is backtracking. See how he goes to make several points. Not only does it seem like he is trying to be over defensive but that most of them are just a big pile of poop. Let's go over the points: 1) I don't even know what chummy means but it seems like the way you guys are acting early on. Again that doesn't really say anything and is something anybody can say about almost anything. 2) He is backtracking to a joke rayn made that makes him town? Well shit i think he just solved mafia. People making jokes = town. I don't understand the context but I believe that is irrelevant. 3) I don't even understand this one. Something again that rayn is towny to him. 4) Saying how its unlikely for something to happen which does not seem unlikely at all. In all of these points, NOTHING again answers why he think rayn and toad cannot be scum together. If anything it seems more like he is developing a rayn town read. This all seems like a load of backtracking and most likely hoping that he wouldn't get called out for his words before hand. Apart from that everything else just has no effort to even try and scum hunt. Thought he was kinda scummy but not this scummy until re-reading his filter now. Did kiterayn just fly away on you? ##Vote geript I was getting shit for playing the way I wanted to play and people wouldn't stop circlejerking around the fact that I don't play like they expect. So instead of trying to argue about philosophies in which is such a tangential topic I decided that I would have to learn to play the TL way and give them what they expect of me and that is to make a case. And also I had my thoughts on geript as most scummy for quiet some time in the game so thats why I talked about him.
this is new player towny meta imo
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Toadesstern about the Vivax thing, yes i know but it does not change the fact that it's wrong.
Working that way gives town less information and more info is always better for town. Because this game is not about blues, it's about scumhunting (and townhunting is a part of scumhunting).
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##unvote
Chz's last bunch of posts read pretty townie to me.
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I am kinda into Mocsta, geript idk, maybe gumshoe mafia?
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On February 27 2014 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am kinda into Mocsta, geript idk, maybe gumshoe mafia?
Did you compare gumshoe's meta to GSL? Feels a lot different to me.
Agree on geript though.
I'd throw WoS in there though, still gotta hear from ange7, and I wouldn't discount suki yet, but I still got to dive her filter. Did I miss anyone else?
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On February 27 2014 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am kinda into Mocsta, geript idk, maybe gumshoe mafia?
I still don't like suki's post on chyz + scooby doo of course
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yeah. I've got geript, Holy and Mocsta as red/orange/yellow in that order. If I ignore Holy for because of mysterious meta reasons the only people I'm left with are Ange and gumshoe as replacements.
gumshoe technically speaking a green on my list but the weakest of them all.
Ange still neutral for obvious reasons.
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On February 27 2014 09:03 Toadesstern wrote:
yeah. I've got geript, Holy and Mocsta as red/orange/yellow in that order. If I ignore Holy for because of mysterious meta reasons the only people I'm left with are Ange and gumshoe as replacements.
gumshoe technically speaking a green on my list but the weakest of them all.
Ange still neutral for obvious reasons.
actually geript/Mocsta/Holy, in that order
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EPT
