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geript
10024 Posts
On February 27 2014 01:01 Mocsta wrote: Another reason why Im suspect of Chz. Hes picking and choosing what to comment on and is actively adjusting his reads with thread sentiment. Hmmm, that's a really interesting and good point. I'm still not going to lynch a newbie on day 1. | ||
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suki
Canada1159 Posts
TheChyz comes in with a town read on Mocsta out of the blue saying 'it's the way you're playing'. He dodges my request for him to share his reads by saying 'I have some hunches', without elaborating. He starts pressuring Mocsta. Makes a bad case on JJD that he quickly gets off of. Says this: On February 26 2014 15:12 TheChyz wrote: You guys can play having 1 scummy thing on someone and immediately call them mafia. I don't. Then votes geript with a pretty awful case. On February 26 2014 16:38 TheChyz wrote: kk. With geript I still have a problem of how he was so quick to say that rayn and toad couldn't be scum together. There was no explanation why he made that conclusion until I finally made him answer with All of these points are terrible. It seems more like he just put out some random statement and after being asked to answer on it it seems like he is backtracking. See how he goes to make several points. Not only does it seem like he is trying to be over defensive but that most of them are just a big pile of poop. Let's go over the points: 1) I don't even know what chummy means but it seems like the way you guys are acting early on. Again that doesn't really say anything and is something anybody can say about almost anything. 2) He is backtracking to a joke rayn made that makes him town? Well shit i think he just solved mafia. People making jokes = town. I don't understand the context but I believe that is irrelevant. 3) I don't even understand this one. Something again that rayn is towny to him. 4) Saying how its unlikely for something to happen which does not seem unlikely at all. In all of these points, NOTHING again answers why he think rayn and toad cannot be scum together. If anything it seems more like he is developing a rayn town read. This all seems like a load of backtracking and most likely hoping that he wouldn't get called out for his words before hand. Apart from that everything else just has no effort to even try and scum hunt. Thought he was kinda scummy but not this scummy until re-reading his filter now. ##Vote geript This case is really bad. Not only does he not explain how geript is scummy for any of his 'points', it seems like a big part of his case is 'I dont understand whats going on'. His entire case is based on geript's comment that rayn and toad cannot be scum together... Like, that's just weak. Thought he was kinda scummy but not this scummy until re-reading his filter now. This conclusion just feels out of place. Like he's trying to explain why he didn't think geript was scummy before but now he does. "Making a story", as it were. TheChyz also seems to be pressuring Mocsta, but I have no idea what TheChyz's opinion of Mocsta is. At the beginning of the game he read Mocsta as town, now he seems to be neutral? Also suki just rubbing me the wrong way with here weird defensiveness and interactions with mocsta. Not sure what but something from reading her filter just doesn't seem right. This is also really flaky. He's saying I look scummy but isn't trying to figure out what looks scummy. He thinks mocsta is suspicious but isn't making a decision. He made a weak case on geript off of one of geript's posts but doesn't seem to be commenting on other things that geript has done. Other people's cases on TheChyz In general I agree with other people's cases on TheChyz. I like JJD's case: On February 26 2014 22:50 JarJarDrinks wrote: Suki reads very town to me. Chyz does actually read very scummy to me after a reread. Few things I don't like: - Like gumshoe, he called you town early when I don't think you were acting townish @ all. - He sheeped geripts case on me and while I think geript legit misread my post, it kinda felt like chyz was being opportunistic - I agree w/ the notion that someone acting scummy does not automatically make that person a scumread. But the way he worded it doesn't sit right. Like "I'm leaning scum" or even "He's null for me" would be a better qualifier for that sentence. I don't think Mocsta's case is that good. Here, TheChyz casually queries Suki indicating that he does not share my read. The question posed will not provide any alignment indicative response either. I don't think TheChyz's question on me indicated that he didn't share Mocsta's read (that I was suspicious). I don't agree with: The important thing to note is that previously TheChyz stated he would only comment if something is wroth commenting on. So why... is he so fixated on someone calling "Rayn/Toad" town. He seems to refuse to accept they can both be town; yet, hasnt given a direct indication of his read on either player. Very scummy. TheChyz hasn't indicated what he thinks of Rayn or Toad's alignment which is weird but not scummy. His case on geript was independent of his read on rayn/toad. This is a guy that is intentionally trying to dodge giving out any insight AND THAT is scummy. I can understand the point that it is trying to dodge giving insight while commenting on gumshoe. I can see it as a townie 'haha i found it funny'. I can see it as a scummy 'lets talk about things but not really'. I see that Mocsta has pinned it as scummy behaviour. In summary: Overall, TheChyz arguments have been weak and offer no insight into his thought process. He is calling out people prematurely (e.g. Holyflare + Rayn/Toad) yet doesnt indicatve whether he reads those players town or scum. He also prematurely calls me town when not under fire for my scumhunting, yet doesnt seem to support my reads. Lastly, he goes out of his way to dodge questions (e.g. to Suki). I find it funny that Mocsta's summary points 1 and 2 can be used to describe his play this game. I don't see how, on its own, Mocsta's points establish that TheChyz's play has been scum motivated. Other people have posted cases but I'm out of time this morning  - - - SUMMARY I think the word to describe TheChyz's play is "weak". There are plenty of contradictions in his words and actions. He seems to have no inclination to scum hunt, but every inclination to throw suspicion on people. I'm leaning towards scummy on him. Scummy things: 1. random defense of mocsta out of nowhere 2. not being transparent with reads, not straight up saying 'this person is scummy' (except geript but that case sucks) 3. not pushing his scum reads. 4. Seemingly not interested in finding scum. I know rayn and some other people brought up cases against TheChyz, and when I read through them in my catch-up I generally agreed with them. There are some points that were brought up that are not in this case that do make TheChyz look scummy. Mocsta being so adamant on TheChyz makes me doubt that both of them are scum together. TheChyz recently has spent effort talking with Mocsta, which, given his weak play, I find unlikely to happen if they were scumbuddies. Also no reason for a hard bus at this point. mmm... I'll have to think about this one. There's still half a day left so plenty of time for both players to contribute. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 27 2014 01:06 geript wrote: Calling for Millers to claim in a game where there aren't millers is a complete troll and you know that. Good thing I got rid of the "too stupid to be scum" heuristic because it would apply here. Read the game. You're calling me a liar in a game that I flipped town-confirmed parity cop right now. This isn't getting you anywhere. | ||
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suki
Canada1159 Posts
I'll be back tonight and spend another few hours in thread. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On February 27 2014 01:07 Toadesstern wrote: He's literally the only guy in the thread that says reading rayn as town from my PoV makes no sense and wants to lynch me based on that. Even worse, he says it's a null and that's why I need to be lynched. That's the definition of omgus. No that's not what I'm saying about the rayn read. I'm calling your reasons for calling him town complete BS. I can totally see many players thinking Rayn's town for that comment; that's fine imo. The problem is that your reasons for calling him town have nothing whatsoever to do with the "easiest townread ever" thing. Like his response was completely towny for most people because of how spontaneous and funny it is; that's super hard to recreate as scum. But your reasoning has zero to do with any obvious reason for why he's town and all to do with things that are completely BS, don't really fit with rayn's town meta and aren't alignment indicative for anyone. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On February 27 2014 01:10 Toadesstern wrote: Read the game. You're calling me a liar in a game that I flipped town-confirmed parity cop right now. This isn't getting you anywhere. Have you flipped parity cop all of a sudden? Like this is the only game I'm playing in; although I'm hosting another on another site. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 27 2014 01:12 geript wrote: No that's not what I'm saying about the rayn read. I'm calling your reasons for calling him town complete BS. I can totally see many players thinking Rayn's town for that comment; that's fine imo. The problem is that your reasons for calling him town have nothing whatsoever to do with the "easiest townread ever" thing. Like his response was completely towny for most people because of how spontaneous and funny it is; that's super hard to recreate as scum. But your reasoning has zero to do with any obvious reason for why he's town and all to do with things that are completely BS, don't really fit with rayn's town meta and aren't alignment indicative for anyone. how you don't understand how those 3 points I stated are town-reads is beyond me. I'm done with you. You die today. You're calling me liar in a game that's already over, that I flipped town in for Christs sake. This can't get any better. | ||
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TheChyz
Canada238 Posts
On February 27 2014 01:05 geript wrote: Yah, it's super easy because your reasons for calling him town are completely fail. You "completely get" how I can have a townread on him for how he responds but that doesn't factor into ANY OF YOUR REASONS for him being town. Like Rayn not calling you a retard doesn't make him anything in this or any other situation. Rayn not causing chaos and confusion actually makes him more likely to be scum; have you even seen half of his town games. Every other game or so Rayn is fucking awful as town and is worse for town than if he were scum; hell he'd even say this. More importantly, he doesn't operate to cause chaos and confusion as scum; he tries to lead town to mislynches all along the way. Saving lynchbait Toadescum for later is a peachy keen plan. Rayn calling you town doesn't make him anything in this or any other situation. You visably recognize and understand how I can have a townread on him, your beef is that it doesn't extend to you for something that's completely trolly and 100% not alignment indicative of ANYONE LET ALONE YOU BISH. Get over it scum. So let me get this straight, your still pissy about toad thinking rayn is town. Why? That doesn't help scum hunt in the slightest. All your doing is clogging up the thread trying to convince others that their town read is wrong. Guess what, not everybody will have the same town reads as you. It's not towns job to find town, its towns job to eliminate scum. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Theres a reason with Chz you are so unsure of his position.. its because he is intentionally not releasing the information, so *YOU* have to fill the gaps. This is classic scum play. My case highlights this - so i thought. And again, you seem to be completely misinterpreting what I write but meh, you gotta live with these things sometimes. If you want an example of the impact ambiguity can play. Check out Mordanis in GSL Mafia IV. Everyone filled in the gaps for him, and just assumed he didnt know better. Seriously Suki, you played recently with Chz where he was town and you were scum. Do you think there are similarities in play? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On February 27 2014 01:17 TheChyz wrote: And who is that scum Chz.So let me get this straight, your still pissy about toad thinking rayn is town. Why? That doesn't help scum hunt in the slightest. All your doing is clogging up the thread trying to convince others that their town read is wrong. Guess what, not everybody will have the same town reads as you. It's not towns job to find town, its towns job to eliminate scum. | ||
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JarJarDrinks
United States1302 Posts
Look @ how he retracts his read on me: On February 26 2014 14:49 TheChyz wrote: NVM on the JJD case. I'm retarded and kept thinking he was refering to mocsta and not gumshoe. I also don't call him mafia cause 1 scummy thing from a person doesn't mean they are mafia. His retraction here doesn't make sense. Here's my statement in question: On February 26 2014 11:42 JarJarDrinks wrote: Lol, I thought rayn was the only person I always read backwards. But actually, I'm starting to come around on you being town because I feel like gumshoe is using you to try and get suki lynched. Like I think u've been acting kinda scummy mostly because of ur suki read. But it's way scummier to call you town and sheep that case. I was refferring to gumshoe about mocsta. Chz thought I was scummy because he thought I was referring to myself about mocsta. Him saying that he "kept thinking [I] was refering to mocsta and not gumshoe" makes no sense whatsoever. He retracted his statement cause of thread sentiment and came up w/ a BS reason. | ||
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JarJarDrinks
United States1302 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
On February 27 2014 01:14 Toadesstern wrote: how you don't understand how those 3 points I stated are town-reads is beyond me. I'm done with you. You die today. You're calling me liar in a game that's already over, that I flipped town in for Christs sake. This can't get any better. Link? Because this is literally the only game I'm playing in right now; and yah I'm calling you a liar in this game but you haven't flipped yet so... maths. I don't think I've even played a game with you since idk LIX where you got modkilled. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
I was a parity cop in that game. You can literally take those words for granted. I liked what he was doing and thought I'd do the same as I already saw Mattchew claiming Miller in a set-up that had no self-aware millers as well. Obviously got himself lynched d1. No harm in trying this out. There is absolutely no way for someone to call me trolling if that's my take on this situation from another game that's already over, a game that I ended up being town. | ||
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suki
Canada1159 Posts
Mocsta's defense is that he's a feels player and that people call him out for being inconsistent. I'm not sure how I feel on that. As town, you have reasons for your moves. You had a reason for voting gumshoe and a reason for putting him as townie after. I don't understand how Rayn is on your list of scum and your only reason is 'it's a feel' and you're not trying to point out scummy things about him just because 'he's not a priority'. I want to hear why you think Rayn is scummy. Also why HolyFlare is scummy. Not sure if you elaborated previously but if you can summarize HF that would be good. Again, when I have more time I'll take a closer look. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
But reading me based on pre-flip associations is prob not a wise metric in general. I would hope as Day1 ends, you will read me town based on my play instead. | ||
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suki
Canada1159 Posts
On February 27 2014 01:17 Mocsta wrote: Suki, reading your case and then the comments on mine is pretty funny. Theres a reason with Chz you are so unsure of his position.. its because he is intentionally not releasing the information, so *YOU* have to fill the gaps. This is classic scum play. My case highlights this - so i thought. And again, you seem to be completely misinterpreting what I write but meh, you gotta live with these things sometimes. If you want an example of the impact ambiguity can play. Check out Mordanis in GSL Mafia IV. Everyone filled in the gaps for him, and just assumed he didnt know better. Seriously Suki, you played recently with Chz where he was town and you were scum. Do you think there are similarities in play? Agreed with the first point. I want to do a meta analysis but that will have to wait until tonight. TheChyz game was a while ago so I'd have to refresh. Definitely one of the things I'm going to do though. | ||
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suki
Canada1159 Posts
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TheChyz
Canada238 Posts
On February 27 2014 01:19 JarJarDrinks wrote: OK I'm flip flopping on Moc again. I really like the fact that he's pushing TheChyz who I'm having a hard time reading any of his posts as town motivated. Look @ how he retracts his read on me: His retraction here doesn't make sense. Here's my statement in question: Him saying that he "kept thinking [I] was refering to mocsta and not gumshoe" makes no sense whatsoever. He retracted his statement cause of thread sentiment and came up w/ a BS reason. LOL JJD. I don't get it. so if im wrong on something for misreading it I'm suppose to still push the case? It's super scummy if you think about it in this sentence "I [JJD] think its way scummier to call you town and sheep that case" which is what I kept on thinking it was. So my dropping my case cause i messed up a read is wrong? I was refferring to gumshoe about mocsta. Chz thought I was scummy because he thought I was referring to myself about mocsta. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On February 27 2014 01:22 suki wrote: ok I had some free time. Mocsta's defense is that he's a feels player and that people call him out for being inconsistent. I'm not sure how I feel on that. As town, you have reasons for your moves. You had a reason for voting gumshoe and a reason for putting him as townie after. I don't understand how Rayn is on your list of scum and your only reason is 'it's a feel' and you're not trying to point out scummy things about him just because 'he's not a priority'. I want to hear why you think Rayn is scummy. Also why HolyFlare is scummy. Not sure if you elaborated previously but if you can summarize HF that would be good. Again, when I have more time I'll take a closer look. Im sorry Suki. I dont want to alienate you; but Chz is my priority to lynch. Actively discussing people like RAyn/HF is just going to deter from that. Yes, you are correct, i had reasons for my moves. As I would if scum. The difference between me n Chz is, that I am not intentionally trying to mislead you. I am being overly-transparent. Look, read Bereft in Back to Basics if you care. Specifically ctrl + f mocsta. We were both town, yet you sound identical to him. So much so, even in LYLO he refused to consider me town for the same reason you point out. What im saying is, you dont like my actions, because you wouldnt play that way. That doesnt make me scum. | ||
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