[M][N] Default Suspicions Mafia
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On February 20 2014 01:46 Balla24 wrote: LMAO thats fucked up suki! ??? | ||
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prplhz <- don't know him jaybrundage marvellosity CuteFluffyPuppy sidesprang VIVAX420 (kush) Balla24 Koshi raynpelikoneet Palmar | ||
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Balla actually I think I'm going to demote you to Balla because you twisted my words. IM NOT SCUM DAMMIT | ||
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##vote Koshi | ||
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Make sure it has bolded red text and lots of quotes. | ||
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marv, Palmar !! | ||
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##vote prplhz CuteFluffyPuppy is confirmed town. There is no way a cute, fluffy puppy could possibly be scum. prplhz is a monster for even having his vote randomly placed on puppy, and now he's even justified it. | ||
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On February 20 2014 08:34 prplhz wrote: also my vote is right where i want it: on the smurf So anyways, look at this slip. If you rearrange the red letters prplhz is clearly saying: I am sgum also there's a subtext : I kick puppies and baby seals like, can there be any more definite proof? | ||
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On February 20 2014 09:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so apparently the starting votes for the day don't mean shit if i read this correctly? Then it's... meaningless? What's the point? rayn rayn o/~ I found scum because of the starting votes. It's not meaningless at all. | ||
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Why the hesitation to start a mess? | ||
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##vote Balla24 Can we be best buddies | ||
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On February 20 2014 08:59 Koshi wrote: Why are you not interested in seeing what I am seeing? I thought you were seeing something so I looked and I thought I saw what you saw, but now you unvoted yourself. Did you really see something or were you just making something up? | ||
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Yes. Actually. There is no downside to having your vote on someone else, especially this early in the game. Why is Rayn abstaining from even the miniscule amount of pressure a random vote has, and why does he think that abstaining is a good idea? (Rayn does that clear up my question for you) | ||
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On February 20 2014 09:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: So what do you think. Is that all you see in my posts? Because if it is and you are right then i am pretty surely mafia because i am not some random noob who says irrelevant stuff as town. I think the reactions that are garnered from your stupid entry is a positive direction for town and that Balla's reaction to it specifically makes me think he is scum. As for you specifically, I think you can open this way as scum or town. | ||
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rayn said: We don't want that because we benefit from clarity and it's beneficial we know exactly WHEN and WHY people drop their scumreads and where they head next. If they don't have next target they should inform that by voting for themselves. This prevents mafia from misrepresenting people because you can always back up your thoughts with your actions in thread (most importantly voting). Having no possibility to unvote is pro-mafia, if you't agree with that you need to explain me why. It's never irrelevant where your vote is at. Here's how I see it. Because you're forced to vote someone, you can't unvote and remain without an opinion (well, except with this stupid plan). This is pro-town. If someone voted Koshi and said, 'I don't think Koshi is scum anymore' but kept his vote on Koshi, then pressuring that person to take a stance on someone else IS pro-town because they can't just unvote and say 'I dont know I'm thinking'. It forces accountability, and mafia hate being accountable for their actions. This outweighs scum possibly misrepresenting someone because they didn't take off their vote. | ||
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On February 20 2014 10:40 Koshi wrote: Rofl. Rayn and marv are.going to be town so this will be so awesome. Let it be known that if you attack either rayn, marv or myself in the next 6 hours you better.do it very convincingly. Cuz I will not be impressed by sloppy shizzle on my towny friends and myself. Poor.scummers. Koshi out 4.realzies. Koshi tell me why you are reading these two as town, and why you feel the need to express this so strongly to the thread. | ||
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If you notice my reaction to rayn's plan, it's quite clear that I don't like it and I don't think it's pro-town. It's not that 'the plan is stupid but neither scummy or townie', it's that the plan is stupid, but rayn proposing it doesn't make me think he's townie or scummy for it. This sort of play can be done as either alignment. | ||
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Who is the most scummy to you at the moment and why? | ||
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I wrote up an answer but I don't see how this in any way explains why you think I'm scum. How about you answer my question. | ||
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Answer to rayn's question: + Show Spoiler + I suppose most of the time when I unvote its when one of my cases falls flat and I don't have a basis to suspect that person anymore. So then, you're arguing here that being able to unvote aids in transparency and shows exactly where I stand, which includes being neutral. Which, I get. But put in a situation where a town person can't unvote but they don't find X person suspicious anymore, the obvious move is to find their next target and then move their vote there. If they don't, people can pressure them to do so. It is to town's benefit that everybody be forced to be accountable for their reads. If neutral is no longer an option, then everybody must take a stance on someone, which is where their vote is. People being forced to take a stance is pro-town. | ||
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I do force people to take stances, it's how I play. And guess what, that's what I'm doing right now. Also wow so the reason you think I'm scummy is because if I were town I wouldn't think your plan was stupid. And you're totes serious on this. Really. | ||
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On February 20 2014 13:22 Balla24 wrote: Where did I even react to rayn's entry and why is it bad? I find half of your initial reasoning for pressuring me somewhat silly (i'm not being playful) and the other half somewhat deserved, but I don't think you're being consistent here: At first you were saying i'm scummy for being in "policy talk mode" and i was actively lurking and not pressuring people. But here you're saying it's because of my reaction which you didn't even reference or comment on before. Your reaction: On February 20 2014 09:17 Balla24 wrote: I see what rayn was thinking though. He thought the votes were permanent thus the people with 3 votes would be easier to lynch whereas the people with no votes would be much harder to lynch. That would actually be a cool mechanic. Once it was cleared up though it basically means nothing so the "plan" doesn't do anything. So yeah. Policy talk mode. Not pressuring. Your 'reaction' to rayn's case was just a sort of backing-up rayn by explaining his point of view from your point of view. Let's get those gears moving Balla! What do you think of prplhz's pressure on rayn? Who do you find scummy right now? | ||
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On February 20 2014 21:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: suki keeps talking about this and he doesn't even think it's scummy. Why? Why keep talking about something that's not helping? Not only that, she keeps attacking the ONLY person who actually agrees with him on this (Balla). Why? She is also not looking about "why" instead of "what". Balla made it very clear why he said what he did and i totally get that. It's not really hard to see why if you read Balla's posts. Okay, I kept talking about your policy because you kept bringing it up Rayn. You can't seriously be putting me as scum for that. And I attacked Balla because of the WHY. Why is Balla not pressuring people, and instead spending the entire early game making statements about policy and agreeing with people? His return into the thread felt more like town Balla and I hope he comes back today and starts beating faces because if he doesn't then he is obviously playing his scum game. Now, on to Koshi. Koshi has been playing a really low key game. He's sheeping everywhere and not analyzing, not pressuring. Just because he says he's sheeping doesn't make it better. On February 20 2014 20:09 Koshi wrote: Paraphrased what happened: 1) suki trolling a shitton (no quotes) 2) Koshi asking suki if Balla is scum. 3) suki trolling 4) Koshi claiming to have reasons to why Balla is scum 5) suki also sees reasons to why Balla is scum. Votes Balla 6) Koshi claims he did not have any reasons to why Balla is scum. 7) suki bringing Balla up again, holding back the reasons to why. 8) Koshi + Balla ask why Balla is scum. 9) suki gives reasoning. The Quotes↓ + Show Spoiler + On February 20 2014 08:57 Koshi wrote: suki, I think balla is scum. Agree? On February 20 2014 08:59 Koshi wrote: Why are you not interested in seeing what I am seeing? On February 20 2014 09:09 suki wrote: ##unvote ##vote Balla24 Can we be best buddies On February 20 2014 09:12 suki wrote: I thought you were seeing something so I looked and I thought I saw what you saw, but now you unvoted yourself. Did you really see something or were you just making something up? On February 20 2014 09:14 Koshi wrote: Making stuff up. I am serious because I can be. On February 20 2014 09:17 suki wrote: Koshi you should put your vote back on Balla. On February 20 2014 09:19 Koshi wrote: I really shouldn't. I know we catch Balla ezpz if he is scum anyway. No need to pressure for no reason. Unless you want to share a reason. I think you should. On February 20 2014 09:22 suki wrote: Balla is completely in policy talk mode and hasn't even tried to pressure anyone or start anything even though he is clearly here. He also is not playing light hearted like in the previous game where we bulldozed scum. On February 20 2014 09:52 suki wrote: I think the reactions that are garnered from your stupid entry is a positive direction for town and that Balla's reaction to it specifically makes me think he is scum. As for you specifically, I think you can open this way as scum or town. What do you think of this? This is the entire conversation between suki and me. First sight I don't really have a problem with it but now that I reread it it feels like suki is holding information back from the thread. I don't see why she would do that and I do not remember her doing that at all in previous games. Is it scum trying to milk a topic as long as possible to stay active? Because quite quickly after the reasoning she gave that Balla is scum and said she was quite serious about the accusations she went talking about rayn and his pro-town voting stuff and started defending herself against rayn his accusations. I don't know that town that actually found scum would drop the scumread and would start talking policy stuff and would defend herself over pushing the scumread. It feels off. Koshi is misrepresenting me. He says I dropped my scumread. When did I do that? He's criticizing me for not hard pushing an early read and participating in the active discussion. He's blowing off the fact that he asked me twice to look at Balla and then when I asked him if he had reasons he just backed down and that he was making things up. On February 20 2014 20:33 Koshi wrote: Not lynchable. I'll say Kush not a lynch target atm because pretty smart play, like instantly going against rayn on prplhz and other people actually saw same things. Also rayn cuz we are buds. marv cuz marv. Palmar I guess. lynchable People marv feels strongly about being scum. People rayn feels strongly about being scum & he made a case with multiple points on. Those are mostly actually scum. sidesprang if he doesn't play. suki and Balla if they plan on playing "the I am so impressed by this playerpool and I won't post my own thoughts" game. As I feel that might be happening. Oats because jayB replaced out cuz he rolled scum. The other people I didn't pay too much attention to. His reads on people have no effort put into them. He's calling random people town for no reason and people scum for no reason. He's saying Balla and I might be intimidated by the player pool as if it's scummy and yet he's not only not posting his thoughts he's just sheeping the strong players in the thread. I know Koshi hates rolling scum and doesn't feel like playing when he's scum. I think he is scummy because he is not analyzing people, not pressuring people and generally just calling people scum or town randomly and making it known he's going to be sheeping. ##unvote ##vote Koshi Regarding toad, I agree that he was back tracking, and I think he's being way too defensive about what he said. His contributions have been nil to this game. All he's done is defend himself against rayn. Who are his scum reads? Why isn't he pressuring anyone? I support the lynch on him and will switch my vote to make it happen at the end of the day. | ||
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This is just off the top of my head because I've gotta go in 10 mins. In Shadowed: The Reboot, Koshi was town and he was active from the start, putting down votes, pressuring, calling out contraditions. In the original Shadowed game, he just talked random shit and wasn't interested in making reads for at least the first part of Day 1. Koshi's behaviour makes me feel like he's not interested in finding who is scum but is just happy to sheep. Regardless of my meta read on him, his contributions to this thread haven't been more than sheeping and weak accusations. Also Koshi I have definitely done more than you this game. At the very least my reads have reasons. I'll be back later. | ||
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[B]On February 20 2014 23:57 marvellosity Since when do mafia openly state they will sheep? Have you ever come across that? Can you provide evidence of mafia-Koshi doing that like he has in this game? Posting from my phone So if someone open about sheeping that somehow makes it better? What are your reads on koshi marv? Do you dispute my claim that his contributions have been shitty this game? | ||
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Balla is most definitely scum. On February 21 2014 02:22 Balla24 wrote: The rest of the case is meta and I can see what you're seeing but you're also only looking at the first couple posts in the game. So if you play like that fine~ However here what I quoted you're ignoring context. I was asking Koshi to do something because he was saying "hey balla is maybe scum" and I wanted him to post his reasoning so we could get into a shit show and people can start the game based on that... but it turns out he didn't. I was doing the same thing when Suki was withholding saying why I was scum. I wanted them to post it to start something because they kept hinting that they were going to but not doing it. Prplhz WAS the only one starting anything so I don't see what's red about that... Balla's words and his actions do not coincide. He starts the game saying hey Koshi lets start something, but Koshi has already voted him and is telling me to vote Balla. Yet Balla doesn't jump on Koshi because Balla 'wanted him to post his reasoning'. Since when does Balla wait for someone to post? Balla's town play is balls to the wall in your face aggressive. Do you know what Balla does when he's town? He questions people. He pressures them. If he thinks someone is scummy he takes what they said and he questions what they meant. He asks them for reads. If he's on you he's so damn annoying you just want him to shut up, whether you're town or scum at the time. This game, he looks like he's trying to explain scum reads, rather than find scum. He's saying this person is scummy because so and so. His vote on sidesprang was weak as shit, not only because it's on a lurker, but because he just said 'Hey dude post more'. There's no questioning to try to get sidesprang out into the open despite his claims that his vote is pressure. He didn't start shit with Koshi when Koshi voted him, and when I voted him and provided reasoning he didn't fight back he just said 'hey that makes sense but don't worry I'll pressure'. He thinks me, sidesprang and kush are scum but isn't doing anything about it. Like, Balla, why are you making a case against me being scum instead of lunging at my neck like a starved rottweiler? You said my opening was non-alignment indicative and you said my case on Koshi was bad and that somehow the case being bad makes me scummy because I would town-read Koshi better the way you are town-reading him. ##unvote ##vote Balla | ||
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Who are your top scum reads right now? I liked your pressure on rayn early game but right now I don't know who you want to lynch. You said Koshi looks bad to you and you don't like railroading Toad. Other than that I don't see any scum reads. | ||
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On February 21 2014 03:04 marvellosity wrote: The last quote does not go with his previous attitude at all. Especially with the "I don't get the case". kush can change his mind on how good the case is all he likes, but it's quite evident that he "gets" the case. I don't buy this marv. Between the second and the third post kush has more posts where he talks about toad and I think his read evolved pretty naturally. On February 21 2014 03:15 Palmar wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Vivax420 @Palmar why did you vote kush right after marv said kush looks scummy? Earlier in the game you thought kush looked town and provided a lot of quotes: On February 20 2014 21:59 Palmar wrote: I like some points he's made. What changed? | ||
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On February 21 2014 05:55 Balla24 wrote: You want me to be pressuring people, those are the people i've tried to pressure yet they aren't here. Rayn JUST asked me like an hour ago and the lead up to that I already explained. Can you please elaborate on the koshi case? If not then at least comment on him now, has he done anything that is not consistent with your read? Koshi is leaning more town for me now. I went back and read the thread, particularly the points where rayn and company were talking about him, and decided that he is more likely to be town. | ||
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On February 21 2014 05:55 Balla24 wrote: You want me to be pressuring people, those are the people i've tried to pressure yet they aren't here. Rayn JUST asked me like an hour ago and the lead up to that I already explained. Can you please elaborate on the koshi case? If not then at least comment on him now, has he done anything that is not consistent with your read? Balla let's pretend they are here right now. What are you going to ask Kush and CuteFluffyPuppy when they get in the thread? The good news is, once you've done this, you don't even have to post again when they come back because they'll see your question and respond! | ||
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Are those questions still the ones you want answered or do you have others? The questions to CuteFluffyPuppy in particular are from much earlier in the game. | ||
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On February 21 2014 02:37 Balla24 wrote: This is weird, considering the two games we (suki and I) just played with Koshi were a towngame and a scumgame. His towngame entry more closely resembles this game (randomly townreading, randomly calling people bad and sheeping) whereas his scumgame he completely avoided that. It's just a complete no-consideration of what she just played with besides "I know koshi hates rolling scum". Beyond this I know she would feel like actually looking at his meta and seeing it because she started to become really good at that last game. For what I am talking about, a few quotes that resemble this game from the recent towngame i'm referencing: + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2014 07:26 Koshi wrote: Koshi is indeed town so I am going to beleive Balla his theory. Balla let's get a town circle going. On February 07 2014 07:39 Koshi wrote: I agree tbh. It felt awkward ##vote jaybrundage On February 07 2014 08:02 Koshi wrote: Balla, let's give jayb a break for a sec. What do you think about Jonny? Why is he gone? He wanted to talk, but there is nothing from him atm. I disagree. I think Koshi's townreads were a lot less random last game. I don't see him randomly calling people bad this game. And he lead the lynch on Jonny so I don't know what you're talking about sheeping. The reason I'm leaning town on Koshi right now is because of this: On February 20 2014 23:09 marvellosity wrote: no, it's exactly the kind of thing Koshi would do as town more than mafia, he'd be more careful as mafia. When I read this I thought, Koshi is playing quite freely right now. It makes sense to view his careless townreads and active sheeping as a free townie than a scum trying to appear free. | ||
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On February 21 2014 06:16 marvellosity wrote: What's not to buy? Why aren't you reading? I *specifically* said it wasn't about the evolution of his read, it was about the fact he said he didn't "get" my case despite the fact he clearly gets it as demonstrated by the quotes, because he's essentially using the same points I brought up. Give me a sec to mull this over. | ||
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Ok, you're saying that kush was saying he didn't understand your case, but his case is exactly the same which is toad was back tracking hard. I'm hesitant to say this is a slam dunk contradiction because there are other parts that you add to your case later, the backtracking was only the first part. It seems really stupid for kush to have said he doesnt get your case, specifically referring to the backtracking. I find it hard to believe anyone could slip like that. | ||
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On February 21 2014 06:25 Balla24 wrote: What suki? Isn't what marv said basically the same thing as I said, I gave specifics of what I was referring to but it's essentially the same point. Can you spell it out for me cuz I don't know what you're talking about here. -_-; | ||
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On February 21 2014 06:36 marvellosity wrote: What did I add later? The case was always the same. The whole exchange about toad and rayn: On February 20 2014 23:06 marvellosity wrote: "I don't consider that I've been in multiple games with rayn recently even though I have" it's brilliant really. Anyways that's what I was seeing that could have been what kush was referring to. Kush is back now so we can get the answer from him. | ||
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On February 21 2014 06:41 Balla24 wrote: Basically my whole point with that post was that Koshi would most likely do all that stuff YOU were pointing that you thought was scummy out as town rather than as scum. Marv is saying the same thing. Yet you're trying to say you disagree with me but you agree with marv. Here's what I said I think he is scummy because he is not analyzing people, not pressuring people and generally just calling people scum or town randomly and making it known he's going to be sheeping. The fact that he's not analyzing and not pressuring people I still think is true. Calling people scum or town randomly and saying he's going to sheep, I now think is more townie on koshi, so my read here changed. I see now that you were saying the same thing where I said 'I disagree', but I don't think this game resembles last game the way you're making it out to be. But my case was shit so the end result is I agree with you and marv that Koshi looks townie for his play thus far. | ||
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On February 21 2014 06:31 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote: Previous post Pg 16-18: I don't understand the first part of this post. There's two observations that are contradictory. On one hand it's completely useless and town would never do it, on the other hand scum would never hard push it. What's also strange is that he accuses suki of a similar thing in the very same post. It's actually so blatantly contradictory that I think he's town for it. I think scum would be more likely to construct themselves properly in this scenario. Rayn pointed out the same thing, but has a different conclusion from it. I actually think it's more likely to come from town. Because scum wants to call people that aren't scum scum. I've used the same method myself. Making something out of nothing is what scum have to do, whereas town has little motivation for it. As for why he got no pressure; it's because I found Palmar more interesting by the time I got back, so I pursued that instead. I also came around on Prplhz simply for the amount of attention he was drawing to himself, which I find atypical of his scum game, though that's based on a small sample. Who do you find scummy right now? | ||
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On February 21 2014 06:52 VIVAX420 wrote: balla the only thing ive seen from you in scum games is inactivity. from your activity aloneyou are a pretty easy townread imo. Are you serious kush. Balla's presence was abysmal in the first 18 hours of the thread. Usually he's all pumped up ready to go. Is that the only reason you're townreading him? | ||
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I know everyone is asking you but I really wanna know | ||
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tell me whyyy | ||
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On February 21 2014 07:01 Balla24 wrote: ##vote Vivax420 So are you saying kush is scum because he doesn't agree that your early game looks scummy? | ||
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On February 21 2014 06:59 Balla24 wrote: Rofl ok~ you're probably scum, cause that's a terrible reason and seems made up on the fly. Or I guess it's this - so kush's reason for townreading you is so terrible he must be scum. | ||
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I'll take a look at his previous games based on your read here and see how I feel about him after. | ||
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##vote VIVAX420 In general I like what I'm seeing from Balla right now so I'm just gonna go along. | ||
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What scum objectives do you perceive Koshi having in his posts? | ||
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On February 21 2014 08:17 marvellosity wrote: I'm curious what your answer to the 2nd question would have been when you made your case on him. My case, which is to say he wasn't pressuring people, wasn't giving reads, and was just throwing around reads and sheeping. All of these are things that scum do, to avoid contributing to town. It makes it easier as well if they don't have any hard reads that they will get called out on. Town on the other hand want to pressure, want to make reads, to figure out the game. Who do you find scummy marv? Just toad? | ||
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On February 21 2014 08:29 marvellosity wrote: I dunno, I gotta re-read everything you and balla said to each other. Didn't parse it very well the first time and it seems like it should be important. My point with the Koshi thing is you're effectively calling him out for the same thing you did in the first place. If you're saying I'm not giving reads and not analyzing . . . Well I am trying. I want to hear your opinion on me because it seems you've been picking at my words for a while but not actually coming out and saying whether you think that makes me town or scum. | ||
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On February 21 2014 08:32 marvellosity wrote: also lol: "wasn't giving reads" -> "was just throwing around reads" he was eating cake but also not eating cake. Curses! Wasn't giving meaningful reads. Throwing around useless junk that doesn't serve to move discussion in any direction. | ||
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On February 21 2014 08:39 marvellosity wrote: That's not what I'm saying. I picked holes in your Koshi case and now you're picking effectively the same holes in what Mr Smurf said. Not that you're not giving reads or analysing or something, dunno how you even thought that? I thought your case made you quite suspicious but I don't have a firm opinion on you until I read your exchange with Balla again. I think you're town and I like your line of thinking marv. Yes, I am picking the same holes that you picked in mine. I think it's a valuable line of questioning. | ||
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On February 21 2014 10:07 Balla24 wrote: He's specifically pinging both you and marv as scum together. What set him off was you and marv's interaction about koshi/fluffypuppy, which means there is probably some associative reasoning within there as well. I see... Why should I care that rayn is calling me and marv out as scum when he doesn't provide any reasons at all? It's just noise. | ||
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On February 21 2014 10:07 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote: Pg 37-39 I'm curious why you thought Koshi looked scummy for it the first time. I know my own reason and I'm curious if they coincide. Town wants to know why someone does something. Scum wants to call someone scum. You went for the former approach rather than seize an easy opportunity to call someone scum over it. You still think he's not analyzing and pressuring people, but you think he looks townie for his play? Can you explain this to me? My first case on Koshi which everyone thought was bad is pretty much the reason why I got scum vibes on Koshi. I'm used to Koshi pressuring people and hunting scum and this game he's just flopping around sheeping the strong players. And yes, Koshi is not analyzing or pressuring people. However, I also think there's some truth to the idea that his playstyle is very free this game and that that freeness is townie. I am in no rush to lynch Koshi and am currently just observing how he continues the game. | ||
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On February 21 2014 10:11 marvellosity wrote: Usually when rayn calls me mafia he is mafia (say ##, Vengeful). Not sure that's the case here though, he might just be deranged. At the very least it's interesting or I care about it, dunno why you wouldn't suki. Unless you're that sure he's town that you don't have to care about it... Rayn is a tough one for me. I don't know why he does half the things he does. I think his haphazard style of play feels like the town game I played with him so I do think he is town. People have already asked him what his vote on you is for so I don't see the need to ask it myself, and really that's the only question I would ask regarding that vote. | ||
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Maybe he thought the back and forth was fake? Like, two scum having a discussion with each other? Maybe he doesn't like the fact that marv is not sticking to a read on Balla and I and saying he has to re-read everything. Then marv calls me out for copying him and I say yeah because I think you're town and rayn is like this is too contrived they must be scum together. If it's some sort of strange association theory about why marv and I are scum buddies then why should I care about it? He's been calling me scum all game and he's been wrong this whole time so any sort of association theory he has about me and someone else is worthless. The town rayn I know tends to get ideas in his head and act impulsively so I don't see his actions as scummy. And if you can explain his 'I thought this was about Koshi? WHAT??!?!!!' post then please go ahead because I can't follow his line of thought. + Show Spoiler + On February 21 2014 08:29 marvellosity wrote: I dunno, I gotta re-read everything you and balla said to each other. Didn't parse it very well the first time and it seems like it should be important. My point with the Koshi thing is you're effectively calling him out for the same thing you did in the first place. On February 21 2014 08:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: marv marv...... On February 21 2014 08:37 suki wrote: If you're saying I'm not giving reads and not analyzing . . . Well I am trying. I want to hear your opinion on me because it seems you've been picking at my words for a while but not actually coming out and saying whether you think that makes me town or scum. On February 21 2014 08:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: you are scum.. On February 21 2014 08:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: Is marv scum too? On February 21 2014 08:41 marvellosity wrote: It's extremely difficult to look "naturally" careless. I've played more scumgames than anyone else on TL Mafia and I have an exceptional record and I can't really do it. On February 21 2014 08:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: I thought this was about Koshi? WHAT??!?!!! On February 21 2014 08:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay this answer is scum. marv is mafia. ##unvote #vote: marvellosoty OH GOD THIS IS SO GOOD! | ||
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Who do you find scummy and why? | ||
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I don't like that he straight up refused to answer when Balla and I both asked him to explain. He unvoted kush saying he all the people on the wagon were scummy to him (at the time it was me, Balla and prplhz). Palmar has seen prplhz as townie for the whole game so he probably wasn't referring to prplhz as scummy. On February 20 2014 18:40 Palmar wrote: I don't think it is a contradiction at all and I think the whole exchange makes prplhz look pretty good. On February 21 2014 08:18 Palmar wrote: He managed to get all the scummy people voting for him. So Palmar this game has been pushing a Toad lynch pretty much consistently and been saying Balla and I look scum. He has an unexplained vote on kush (who he had a town read on previously) sheeping marv, and then a quick unvote saying all the scummy people are voting for him even though his town read was also on kush. Things that I find scummy are that 1) Palmar is not being transparent with his actions and thoughts around kush 2) He's not pressuring Toad even though Toad has contributed recently. 3) He's not pushing the Toad lynch except to say 'he's scum', which makes me think he doesn't actually care if toad is lynched or not. | ||
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On February 21 2014 11:18 prplhz wrote: what do i know maybe he doesn't want to push a guy to a lynch who is town or maybe he likes a toad lynch better or whatever make something up don't you think it's weird that palmar is making bad associative reads? I do and I really like this analysis ##unvote ##vote Palmar | ||
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On February 21 2014 21:21 Palmar wrote: I could discuss lynching suki over Toad. But I don't think there are many other wagons I'd support today. On February 21 2014 22:14 Palmar wrote: I have a plan. If toad flips mafia we lynch Oats, if he flips town we lynch kush. Palmar any reason why you're lynching your 'vigi please' tier over me when you clearly are focused on lynching either me or Toad today? | ||
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On February 21 2014 21:33 marvellosity wrote: The problem is I agree completely with where you put absolutely everyone, except I'd probably move kush down one. marv I take this to mean you think I'm scummy? I ask because you still haven't straight up said how Balla and I look even though you kept saying you had to go back and re-read our exchange. | ||
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And marv, if he does say 'oops I forgot about you' and then continues to push my lynch then there's some dissonance going on there. Because if he feels so strongly about me being scum but he's willing to lynch two 'vigi please' people over me (since vigi please is higher on the list), then his story and his actions don't check out. | ||
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##vote Toadesstern | ||
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Every time I try to ask questions I get shit on for being bad. Well maybe I am bad. So just give me a break. | ||
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On February 21 2014 22:53 marvellosity wrote: that would be the interpretation yes. The 2nd exchange you had last night that I was able to pay more attention to/follow better had Balla looking better because he was doing the aggressive pursuing and you were quite defensive. Sorry I missed this post. | ||
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On February 21 2014 23:28 marvellosity wrote: ![]() This vote came completely out of left-field. If we go back to the Koshi case that suki made, within that case Toad had no redeeming features at all still (and could be voted for later). But here Palmar is worth a vote for prplhz mentioning bad associative reads and that's it. It's like it was one thing about Palmar which was perhaps semi-significant that was worth a vote without considering anything else that Palmar had done at all. Did you maybe miss the entire post that I made on palmar like just before prplhz's post? The one where I said here is why I find Palmar scummy? | ||
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On February 21 2014 23:25 Koshi wrote: suki, planning on making waves today? Do you? | ||
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fuck me. | ||
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I plan to keep trying to pressure people and find scum even when everybody in the thread seems to hate how I play and either criticize it or outright ignore me. | ||
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On February 21 2014 23:39 marvellosity wrote: Do you still think Palmar is suspicious? No | ||
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On February 21 2014 23:40 Koshi wrote: Does this imply that Toad is scum and that I am town. Also that you are scum? Do you think I'm scum? Your big list post said you think I'm meh but could reread. | ||
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On February 21 2014 11:47 Oatsmaster wrote: It seems like suki is set on calling rayn town so I dont see why she cares about what rayn has to say about marv considering its almost certaintly gonna be wrong. Oats sees me as scum. Rayn is voting marv and trying to make an association case of me and marv. Why is what rayn says about marv 'almost certainly going to be wrong'? This made sense to me at first because I'm like, 'I'm town, rayn's town pushing scum marv/suki so probably wrong', but if Oats sees me as scum how is rayn's push almost certainly wrong? On February 21 2014 11:23 Oatsmaster wrote: yeah yeah lets lynch palmar gogogogogo vote. On February 21 2014 11:54 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont think palmar is making 'bad' associative reads, I think that associative reads day 1 are bad but Palmar is perfectly justified for not being sure when like all of his scumreads jump on someone he thinks is scum. Why is he saying lets lynch Palmar gogogo after prplhz me and Balla bring up that Palmar's been odd, and then a few posts later completely defending Palmar. There's no cohesion in his thoughts. | ||
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What's the point in you and marv bringing this up? | ||
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On February 21 2014 18:52 Koshi wrote: Kush/Balla/Toad I really got to read the big case from Balla and compare it to the big case he made in the shadowed game on Jonny/Alakaslam. I actually haven't read it yet and skimmed it when I was on train and on phone. Just went over suki and it's not the worst. On February 21 2014 22:39 Koshi wrote: If was in a jury and I could press a button with a circle or one with a cross I would be smashing the cross button atm. Kush/Toad/suki I get why you're not suspicious of Balla anymore. What about my play since your first post makes you think I'm scummy? | ||
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I liked your play early. I think your posts had good direction to them and you were constantly trying to figure the game out. I was a bit iffy on you for your catch-up posts primarily because it lets you be disconnected from the current state of the game. Looking more closely now, I'm wondering why you think I'm scummy when early on it seemed you were leaning town on me. I am leaning to you being town, especially if you're LoneMeow since it seems like LM's play style. What is your current read on me and why? | ||
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On February 22 2014 01:36 marvellosity wrote: Could you just list all the games you've played for me suki? You don't need to provide links or anything. Shadowed Mini Mafia: The Reboot Shadowed Mini Mafia Normal Mini Mafia: Episode 1 Newbie Mini Mafia LI Newbie Mini Mafia XVII Newbie Mini Mafia XV I'm just going to put this in my profile. | ||
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On February 22 2014 01:38 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote: This was the last time you mentioned a read on Kush. Did you go back and find anything? I'm too lazy too look more in depth at kush. Generally I like his play. This game he seems fixated on Toad and Oats, who are my top choices for lynch so I don't have a problem with him. Balla's points that he doesn't seem to care about who to lynch and that he's making generic waffly statements doesn't really hold up anymore. | ||
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On February 22 2014 01:45 marvellosity wrote: Thanks. Which one(s) was mafia? (should have asked that the first time). Normal Mini Mafia: Episode 1 Newbie Mini Mafia XV | ||
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Newbie Mini Mafia LI Newbie Mini Mafia XV | ||
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How is Toad scummy for finding you scummy early game? | ||
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I hopped off palmar because I was retardedly frustrated at the way he was treating me but figured that marv and other people having a town read on him was important, and that his flippant way of dealing with me felt town as well. As I recall VE treated me the same way in NMM where I kept on pressuring him and he was like 'I am going to ignore you'. This game makes me rage so much some times. | ||
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I've been toying with you being scum for the past hour, particularly after you come into the thread still spouting how I'm scum, however I have come to the conclusion that you're probably town. 1) you're retarded active , 2) you were trying to figure out toad rather than just straight up call him scum , 3) your points against me seem ok now that you've elaborated on your feelings. I have a pretty good feeling about toad. The backtracking case, followed by his complete defensive shutdown, followed by his shit case on Balla that I just tried to read again and don't even know what he's saying, followed by his disappearance from the thread. I actually don't really know who else to call scum at the moment, but Day 1 has always been my weakest day. | ||
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anyways yay one down ![]() | ||
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Is a slip really the best thing you have against me? You've played with me before, you should know there is literally no way I'm scum right now based on how I'm playing. | ||
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On February 22 2014 09:17 prplhz wrote: dear suki are you scum? [ ] yes [ x] no please check one | ||
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Early game he consistently had toad on his list On February 21 2014 11:49 Oatsmaster wrote: yes that is correct. How does that make me scum? Im pushing the smurf/suki/toad bandwagon. ... then he randomly starts saying toad is town. This is before rayn came back and declared toad was town. On February 22 2014 01:22 Oatsmaster wrote: Also toad is flipping town, kush pls hand in your mafia card at the door on your way out. On February 22 2014 01:24 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok so since people dont like me jumping around for whatever reason, Im gonna clarify my reads. I think smurf is the scummiest. Followed by suki then balla then kush then the rest are townie maybe I guess toad is like 5th most likely to flip scum On February 22 2014 01:37 Oatsmaster wrote: I think that I look better than survivor series pretty much just because I posted more and about more things than there. But because that game had so many other lurkers i kinda didnt get into any pressure unlike this game. Apparently people still dont think im town which totally wouldnt happen if im scum. At least I think so. Like as scum I totally bus/murder Toad 100% of the time and look really good doing so. On February 22 2014 03:03 Oatsmaster wrote: lol palmar, is this the start of personality 2 2.0 if toad flips town which he is totally going to. Where marv is totally wrong and game degenerates into a shitfight between 2 townies? ##vote smurfdude I think it's not very likely that this is a scum plan to save toad. He gains nothing when toad flips and nobody was defending toad at that point. He could easily have kept suspicious of toad and still pushed whoever he felt like. | ||
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Your case on me is bullshit. | ||
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He starts the game off with a vote on toad, says he's backtracking hard. Later he waffles and says he didn't understand marv's case. On February 21 2014 06:37 VIVAX420 wrote: my problem with toad was 100% different fom yours. then you morphed it into this thing about misunderstanding rayn. wha tyou were saying was actually total bs. Got into to argument about how well toad knows rayn. That is how I know you are mafia. YUour logic is based on total bs. Then before the lynch he's like toad is 100% town. It totally looks like a mafia bus where he later got cold feet. | ||
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On February 22 2014 09:54 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote: I find the anger more understandable than the slip. Anger could come from feeling like you've been tunneled all game long whilst still giving your best. As for Kush, he's one of my question marks. Doesn't he usually bus his buddies though? Is it customary for him to give a buddy a townread at first? Hmm. In extractor trick mafia he bussed slam from pretty much his very first post. Slam never got seen as suspicious though so kush was able to ride that bus all the way to the end. I tried looking for more scum games but he hasn't played much at all. In Sicilian Mafia, he doesn't talk about his first scumbuddy Yamato for the entire Day 1 and Yamato was lynched. Then as soon as Yamato bled red he hard bussed sloosh saying 'sloosh is confirmed scum'. So I know kush likes to bus. OH WAIT. Regarding my cold feet comment, I was thinking Kush was still saying Toad was town, but he said he will quit if Toad flips town, so he was actually saying Toad was going to flip scum. So it's totally a bus. | ||
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On February 22 2014 10:13 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote: Yeah, he busses Alaka hard from the start. Never mentioned Thrawn before he got shot N1. Here he started out with a town read on Toad. Makes me blink for a second. Could be because he considers Toad a valuable asset and he was the GF though, then changed when it was inevitable. His thought process didn't really flow with the rest of town either. I remember Rayn saying something about how Kush loves to sheep him if he's town and tries to deter Rayn when he's scum. In this game he's going in against Marv/Rayn so that's a point in favour of him being scum. Rayn why did you read Kush as town? Just wanted to point out Puppy that kush started out with a scumread against Toad, not a town read as you stated. On February 20 2014 09:18 VIVAX420 wrote: ##vote toad im not playing i want this addressed. On February 20 2014 10:36 VIVAX420 wrote: toad you are backtracking so hard. it's not serious, yet you gave shitty but serious reasons for it. | ||
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On February 22 2014 11:31 Alakaslam wrote: very late in his filter. I dunno I think Kush may have pushed toad all the way through as scum if he were to play like extractor trick. But whatever kush was like oats, really hard to read. For all I know this means Kush/Oats team. But for all I know that means they just don't quote people, that really bugs me about both filters. What else is new, I don't have long. I don't like how flaky this post is. His conclusion is 'kush and oats are hard to read' which is doesn't tell me anything. Also, the difference between extractor trick and this game is that in extractor trick he hard bussed slam but people had a town read of slam and were defending him, so he had no reason to flake. I want to hear kush's opinion of the flip. | ||
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On February 22 2014 13:25 VIVAX420 wrote: wow toad flipped scum.. i guess i have to quit mafia now. That's not what you said at all. On February 22 2014 00:11 VIVAX420 wrote: I will quit mafia forever if toad is town Please, enlighten us with your thoughts. | ||
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On February 22 2014 05:13 Balla24 wrote: If you can't see why I think that his case is scummy for misrepresenting me and using meta on a small amount of contribution then you're not going to be convinced. 2) What are you talking about thats exactly the point. It might be pressure but it also could be fake contribution and to me it looks like fake contribution considering what I think of 1) 3) THATS EXACTLY THE POINT THOUGH. I wanted to see more contribution because all he's done at the point of my case was what I said. He hasn't done anything else now so it just proves my point that he's for some reason hesitant to talk about anything else. That's just wrong. I'm not making up new points, you are making it out to be but i'm not so go somewhere pls. ##vote raynpelikoneet Everything since you came back is so convoluted and just shitting up the thread. I think you're scum and I think you know toad is town so you want to springboard onto marv/suki/me after toad flips. I don't think your views on toad are consistent, earlier you were voting him. Literally the only reason you think toad is NOT SCUM is because you think marv/suki and I are scum which is total bullshit, especially on suki and I. I don't know your relationship with marv so I don't know how bullshit that is. There is no universe where scum Balla has the balls to say this to rayn. | ||
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I really find it weird that you don't see this seeing as you clearly saw the difference in NM:E1 beginning of game On January 20 2014 09:34 kushm4sta wrote: yo i sort of scum coached this newbie where balla was town. This guy is sick. I am expecting amazing reads from him. mid-game when people were calling balla out for being scummy and kush was voting balla. On January 21 2014 21:40 kushm4sta wrote: And balla is so underwhelming compared to the newbie I partially observed. @Suki you have experience with balla, what are you thouhts? You seem to be thinking Balla is suspicious at this moment. On February 22 2014 15:36 VIVAX420 wrote: balla you think rayn is scum? On February 22 2014 16:30 VIVAX420 wrote: balla you are busing him amirite? Why didn't you think Balla was scummy at the beginning of the game and call him out, when he was clearly inactive? Why are you questioning my townread of Balla when you yourself read Balla as town earlier on? On February 21 2014 06:49 VIVAX420 wrote: that whole suki balla thing looks like some boring shit between townies. so tldr Your line of thought on Balla just doesn't line up at all. | ||
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On February 23 2014 00:25 Koshi wrote: suki, if you would write down all your ideas atm. Would that help the thread in case you die? I am not dying tonight because there are better vig targets and better town targets than me. | ||
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But his responses are coherent and make sense. Taking another look at Balla's filter some things really don't add up. Calling marv questionable is a really weird thing. His case on toad also bad. His case on you bad. Bussing Toad is definitely a plausible move for scum Balla. I guess I just liked the fact that he was hard defending me :| Kush looks more townie to me right now from this exchange. Balla looks worse. I do think Oats is town so scum suspect was kush and slam. Add Balla to the list now. | ||
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He's in the neutral-scummy category. | ||
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You can't really say he is mafia because my case is not bad, because him not being mafia makes your case invalid. Sorry I followed your post up to this point. Can you rephrase? My brain isn't getting it. | ||
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- I was looking at kush being mafia for having a shitty case. - I like kush's response to me and he looks better after our exchange balla - I liked Balla - I see several things that make me reconsider that Balla is scummy. oats - Oats is town People on my suspect list are: Balla, kush, slam. | ||
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Why do I have a bad feeling Koshi? | ||
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Is that the only reason he's town? | ||
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On February 23 2014 01:24 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote: Is this a read you made yourself or is this something you're taking marv's word for? I made the read myself. Seriously. | ||
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I'm not saying Palmar plays like this, or that even good players play like this. I know I'm outclassed this game and one of the reasons people don't like me is because my cases are bad, but that's my current skill level. I'm just throwing out ideas because at the moment, I find it very unlikely that the rest of mafia is within Balla, kush and slam. If it turns out that only one mafia is in that group, that means that one of the very active players in this game is scum. And maybe this is self-centered but Palmar has been suspicious of me this entire game with no change in attitude and I find this very weird, because almost everyone else has had fluid views on me. So that is why I want to know why Palmar is town. | ||
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On February 23 2014 01:29 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote: Palmar hasn't put serious effort in since ever in this game. He's not trying to influence the game in any mafia like fashion. I don't think Day 1 would've been a clear wash on Toad if he was scum. I don't think Mafia had much thread presence at all. On February 23 2014 01:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: It's entirely different thing to lynch your scumbuddy who will most likely get lynched anyways later on because they are incapable of playing mafia aligned then to lynch a godfather from the start and not even try to do anything about it all D1. I like these two points. If it's true that Mafia has no thread presence, then maybe the rest of mafia ARE in Balla/kush/slam and maybe oats. | ||
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... Actually prplhz is a good player right? If he's thinking like me, and my thought pattern is bad, then he was playing bad, so then he's scum? lol. | ||
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On February 21 2014 11:13 prplhz wrote: i don't think i gave a read on toad so let me say that i never really understood the case (rayn's 3 options and that stuff) at all but i don't think he did a lot this game so i'm not opposed to a toad lynch at all which is a really dull read that doesn't say anything. He ends up sheeping the read in the end. He spends the day trying to push koshi, kush then oats. He actually puts some effort going after Koshi but when it doesn't catch on he kinda just drops it. On February 21 2014 06:45 prplhz wrote: i'm done with kush because i don't think i've seen him try to contribute above the bare minimum and now he's just taking the piss out of marv for some reason. ##Vote VIVAX420 i don't like Koshi either "i did it for the lulz or mb i was srs?" is really not a good explanation for anything. can't let these people roam free. kush, step it up and blaze it 420 and then stop arguing with marv and do something instead If Palmar is town for lynching godfather day 1 and not trying to push anyone else, then prplhz definitely looks like he could be scum for staying away from toad lynch until late and trying to push attention onto other people. | ||
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- his initial case On February 20 2014 22:33 prplhz wrote: I don't think raynpelikoneet is bad and dumb. I faintly recall that I think he is actually quite good. Doesn't mean he can't do a dumb thing now and then though. I also recall that kushmasta was loud and flaky and that's not what I'm seeing this game at all, so while he's been a little easier to play with I'm uncertain about him simply because of that. I don't like railroading Toadesstern this early. Koshi also looks bad to me. I don't really understand his posts. First he's okay with raynpelikoneet's plan. Then he doesn't understand it? I think scum are more likely to want to talk about who someone is instead of just playing. He also doesn't actually contribute to the whole discussion around raynpelikoneet, he's around posting one liners like: "This is some high level shit and that's why I'm not contributing" I don't think townies think that, they think "Everybody should know my opinion because it's the right one to have". Like, his filter is full of nothing and he doesn't seem to be trying to actually having an influence on the game. A lot of his trolling also seem weird and out of place. - way later in the game comments about Koshi On February 21 2014 06:45 prplhz wrote: i'm done with kush because i don't think i've seen him try to contribute above the bare minimum and now he's just taking the piss out of marv for some reason. ##Vote VIVAX420 i don't like Koshi either "i did it for the lulz or mb i was srs?" is really not a good explanation for anything. can't let these people roam free. kush, step it up and blaze it 420 and then stop arguing with marv and do something instead This post is way after my case on Koshi that everyone tore apart and people came to the conclusion that Koshi was town. But here he isn't saying that Koshi looks scum, it just seems like he's trying to push a policy lynch on Koshi or something. | ||
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On February 23 2014 03:05 Palmar wrote: suko why didn't you instajoin the toad wagon which was good but you instajoined my shit wagon on kush I didn't join your wagon on kush, I gave my thoughts and provided reasoning. What are your thoughts on Balla, Palmar? | ||
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I feel like Balla's read on Marv this game feels rigid and unnatural. On February 21 2014 14:49 Balla24 wrote: Marv is generating a LOT of content and asking plenty of good questions. But he also seems content to just sit within a shit storm and let it happen/contribute to it which is scummy. He has one instance of trying to move the thread forward during one of those shit storms (during the toad debacle) in which he suggests to move forward since we aren't going to get anything more out of it, however that was way after and was actually producing useful content. I'm referencing things like his conversation with kush. On February 22 2014 02:54 Balla24 wrote: lol marv... you just need to realize that just because you are under "questionable" does not mean i'm not leaning town on you... I doubt you are scum, there is just stuff that is annoying that you do. @oats thats not true. rayn consistently has a massive filter as scum. On February 22 2014 03:06 Balla24 wrote: I'm not!!! Jesus. What does it matter if i put him as obv town or slightly town ... there was stuff that was annoying me that's atll!! Fine he's obv town who cares what difference does it make holy crap Mmm. How does he go from Marv is scummy for sitting in/contributing to a shitstorm, to marv is obv town with just a little bit of pressure? Seems weak. Like a scum trying to get heat off his back. Would expect a townie to stand up for his read if he really thought marv was "questionable". Balla has been really conscious of his early play and I find that scummy. One of his points on why he thought kush was scummy was because kush didn't think he was scummy early. Balla's attack on toad was because toad's case was bad on him, but he didn't refute that his early game looked scummy. Mmm.. yeah if you're town... why would you be so conscious of having a weak start? You wouldn't really think about how your play was you'd just barrel forward with your guns blazing. + Show Spoiler + On February 21 2014 02:57 Balla24 wrote: I'm really really surprised Kush hasn't called me scum yet. I don't think Kush is interested in people's alignments, the past 2 games he has called me scum when my openings were weaker. There's a bunch of stuff that is not saying anything about somebody's alignment. I really would have expected kush to call someone scum by now. Kush who is scum? On February 21 2014 07:09 Balla24 wrote: Don't twist my words here lol!! I'm saying kush is scum because he doesn't seem interested in anybody's alignments like usual. I would have expected to call me scum FOR my early game because it is a bit similar to other times he called me scum, not that my early game IS scummy. The reason he came up for not doing so is because he thinks i'm bad now? That's ridiculous. There's other points where kush is not interested in finding out alignments he is just making generic waffly statements and mostly asking boring generic questions. Which is what my first post about kush was based on that I think you missed because you keep asking where my kush read came from even though it's there. On February 21 2014 07:11 Balla24 wrote: No, not his reasoning for townreading me. His reasoning for not jumping on me for "not doing shit" like he normally does. His reason for townreading me is ok since it's based on activity but it's not a solid townread. It is something I would expect him to throw out though. I find it weird that someone would write a meta case on what LITTLE i had in the thread at that time, especially in comparison to what everybody else was doing in regards to me which was just "wait and see". I think it's a weak attempt to try to draw attention to someone who opened pretty weakly. | ||
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On February 22 2014 09:26 Balla24 wrote: sad that i literally cant come up with any conclusions from that... people need better reasoningzzz... Palmar is likely town. He says this after writing his big post analyzing the lynch votes. | ||
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