• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:09
CEST 00:09
KST 07:09
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed18Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
Heaven's Balance Suggestions (roast me) Who will win EWC 2025? Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Soulkey Muta Micro Map? BW General Discussion [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall
Tourneys
[BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier CSL Xiamen International Invitational
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Movie Discussion! [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 673 users

[M][N] Default Suspicions Mafia - Page 5

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next All
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 01:42 GMT
#863
It seems like the bulk of rayn's suspicions against marv started on page 41, when marv and I were interacting.

Maybe he thought the back and forth was fake? Like, two scum having a discussion with each other? Maybe he doesn't like the fact that marv is not sticking to a read on Balla and I and saying he has to re-read everything. Then marv calls me out for copying him and I say yeah because I think you're town and rayn is like this is too contrived they must be scum together.

If it's some sort of strange association theory about why marv and I are scum buddies then why should I care about it? He's been calling me scum all game and he's been wrong this whole time so any sort of association theory he has about me and someone else is worthless. The town rayn I know tends to get ideas in his head and act impulsively so I don't see his actions as scummy.

And if you can explain his 'I thought this was about Koshi? WHAT??!?!!!' post then please go ahead because I can't follow his line of thought.

+ Show Spoiler +
On February 21 2014 08:29 marvellosity wrote:
I dunno, I gotta re-read everything you and balla said to each other. Didn't parse it very well the first time and it seems like it should be important.

My point with the Koshi thing is you're effectively calling him out for the same thing you did in the first place.

On February 21 2014 08:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marv marv......

On February 21 2014 08:37 suki wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2014 08:29 marvellosity wrote:
I dunno, I gotta re-read everything you and balla said to each other. Didn't parse it very well the first time and it seems like it should be important.

My point with the Koshi thing is you're effectively calling him out for the same thing you did in the first place.


If you're saying I'm not giving reads and not analyzing . . . Well I am trying.

I want to hear your opinion on me because it seems you've been picking at my words for a while but not actually coming out and saying whether you think that makes me town or scum.

On February 21 2014 08:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:
you are scum..

On February 21 2014 08:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Is marv scum too?

On February 21 2014 08:41 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2014 08:40 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:
Pg 25-27
On February 20 2014 22:51 Toadesstern wrote:
On February 20 2014 22:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On February 20 2014 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:
On February 20 2014 22:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On February 20 2014 22:35 Toadesstern wrote:
On February 20 2014 22:31 Palmar wrote:
Toad who is scum and why is it you?

I just got back in here finished reading... give me some time but it's actually up in there if you consider the fact that it's a write-up while reading and things changing a little

On February 20 2014 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On February 20 2014 22:29 Toadesstern wrote:
On February 20 2014 14:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
[quote]
Toad how do these two comments go together?

They go together as "#1 didn't cross my mind at that time because I have no idea how someone could come up with it, so I didn't take it into consideration before you mentioned it. Once you did mention it I figured it's possible"

wait wait wait. what?

"why didn't you think it's blue? - I have no idea what blue is, so I thought it might be green or yellow and thought that's weird, once you explained what blue is I realized it might be blue"

So you are saying you didn't know how i came up with what i did after i said in thread why i came up with it.
Explain to me where in your opinion i explain why i came up with what i did.

In other words, what happened between the posts of your i quoted?

no I'm saying I didn't have the same misunderstanding you had about the phrasing, therefore what you innitially thought didn't cross my mind and wasn't part of my theories what you might be doing with that plan of yours. Once you cleared up that you thought those votes would add up I realized it might make sense given that misunderstanding.
I just never had that misunderstanding to begin with which is the reason I couldn't make sense of it.

My problem is this. And now, please answer this properly and in detail:

You make a post which says this:
On February 20 2014 10:40 Toadesstern wrote:
@rayn: Can't be #1 because I have no idea how someone could have come to that conclusion based on the phrasing from our lovevly host.

Then there is something that happens between here because you then say this:
On February 20 2014 11:12 Toadesstern wrote:
Your explanation is possible, that's the sad thing here.

Now what is that something that happens between these posts? Why do you change your mind and what's the particular post that makes you change your mind?


You asked me about my reasoning earlier on. The first part is talking about my stance on you and how I got to that stance from my PoV before you did this post:
+ Show Spoiler +
On February 20 2014 10:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So here we go (marv i would have expected a bit more from you, i am sad):

There are three possibilities about my motives and here they are:

1) I am town and this is my thought process; I misunderstood the setup as i have already explained and thought the votes from previous days are added to the current days votes. That's why i made my plan in the first place. Now this would have been the most pro-town plan because i would have later on brought up the fact that we should treat this as a majority lynch and at the end of the day people who are not in the majority wagon put their votes on themselves. In that way we would have eliminated any cons for the town in setup we possibly can, which is pretty much everything other than the randomness which we can't eliminate.

However, that was not the case. Now, i still stand behind my "if you "unvote", vote yourself" plan because of this. If we do not push this policy it leads to possibly stupid and irrelevant questions like "you don't think this dude is scum anymore, why is your vote still on him?". We don't want that because we benefit from clarity and it's beneficial we know exactly WHEN and WHY people drop their scumreads and where they head next. If they don't have next target they should inform that by voting for themselves. This prevents mafia from misrepresenting people because you can always back up your thoughts with your actions in thread (most importantly voting). Having no possibility to unvote is pro-mafia, if you't agree with that you need to explain me why. It's never irrelevant where your vote is at.

2) I did the same pro-town thing as mafia.

3) I just made all this up and and i was just saying shit for no reason at the start of the game.


Now here is my question, especially to prplhz, Toad, Palmar and suki;
Why did you not try to see what i was/am trying to do and how that would make me whatever alignment. What you did is you took some posts from me and painted them scummy without no thinking behind it. I want to know why.

If what i was doing was (1), then i am town.
If what i was doing is (2), you can't tell my alignment.
If what i was doing is (3), then you are saying i am some random noob which this post already proves i am not because i would have came up with a decent explanation on the fly.

So again, why am i mafia? Especially prplhz and Toad?

The second part you're quoting is explaining how I realized that your explanation (the above post) makes sense if we take the misunderstanding as a given, which I did not consider before you cleared it up simply because I did not have that same misunderstanding.


Toad's explanation regarding the Rayn plan has left me with more question marks than anything. His initial comment doesn't specify anything about how it's about his reads without the explanation, especially since he referred to the comment as "can't be #1" which indicates he read the actual arguments, yet it's supposedly about his explanation as to why he thought Rayn was scum. It feels to me like a reason he thought of after the events. Not going to push it as per marv's proposal.

On February 20 2014 23:09 marvellosity wrote:
On February 20 2014 23:08 Palmar wrote:
I really like prplhz's point about koshi, don't you marv? doesn't it make you all warm inside?

no, it's exactly the kind of thing Koshi would do as town more than mafia, he'd be more careful as mafia.

Don't you think Koshi would know how you're likely to respond to this? It's fairly clear to anyone reading games that carelessness is seen as town. With someone as forthcoming with their thoughts as Koshi usually is, I don't find it unlikely at all. It's an easy way to look town without putting much effort in the game, and Koshi abhors playing scum.
On February 21 2014 08:14 suki wrote:
CuteFluffyPuppy, why do you think this 'bravado' line of action is more likely to come from scum Koshi than town Koshi?

What scum objectives do you perceive Koshi having in his posts?

Because Koshi does not like playing scum. The way he's playing is the laziest way to still get read as town. I think a town Koshi would take the opportunity to do a more thorough read and get a good read on some players. He hasn't really tried.

Koshi's objective is to get read as town with the least amount of effort.

It's extremely difficult to look "naturally" careless. I've played more scumgames than anyone else on TL Mafia and I have an exceptional record and I can't really do it.

On February 21 2014 08:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I thought this was about Koshi? WHAT??!?!!!

On February 21 2014 08:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay this answer is scum.
marv is mafia.
##unvote
#vote: marvellosoty

OH GOD THIS IS SO GOOD!

suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 01:43 GMT
#864
The thing I want most from rayn's vote on marv is an explanation from him.
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 01:54 GMT
#866
Because then I can see what he's thinking.
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 01:55 GMT
#867
Hi Oats, welcome back.

Who do you find scummy and why?
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 02:13 GMT
#873
I want to know why Palmar, who earlier on defended kush, decided to vote kush after marv posted his 'kush might be mafia' post.

I don't like that he straight up refused to answer when Balla and I both asked him to explain.

He unvoted kush saying he all the people on the wagon were scummy to him (at the time it was me, Balla and prplhz).

Palmar has seen prplhz as townie for the whole game so he probably wasn't referring to prplhz as scummy.

On February 20 2014 18:40 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2014 18:37 Koshi wrote:
@rayn
prplhz contradiction is something I don't perceive as scummy btw. But I can give him a scummy point.


I don't think it is a contradiction at all and I think the whole exchange makes prplhz look pretty good.


On February 21 2014 08:18 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2014 07:34 prplhz wrote:
On February 21 2014 07:22 Palmar wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Toad


This wagon is terrible, I don't even know what idiot started it.

what did kush do to make you think he is town


He managed to get all the scummy people voting for him.


So Palmar this game has been pushing a Toad lynch pretty much consistently and been saying Balla and I look scum. He has an unexplained vote on kush (who he had a town read on previously) sheeping marv, and then a quick unvote saying all the scummy people are voting for him even though his town read was also on kush.

Things that I find scummy are that
1) Palmar is not being transparent with his actions and thoughts around kush
2) He's not pressuring Toad even though Toad has contributed recently.
3) He's not pushing the Toad lynch except to say 'he's scum', which makes me think he doesn't actually care if toad is lynched or not.
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 02:23 GMT
#881
On February 21 2014 11:18 prplhz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2014 11:15 Oatsmaster wrote:
why would Palmar do that as scum.

what do i know maybe he doesn't want to push a guy to a lynch who is town or maybe he likes a toad lynch better or whatever make something up

don't you think it's weird that palmar is making bad associative reads?


I do and I really like this analysis

##unvote
##vote Palmar
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 02:27 GMT
#885
I want an explanation from oats. I want his scum reads.
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 13:49 GMT
#1092
On February 21 2014 21:21 Palmar wrote:
I could discuss lynching suki over Toad. But I don't think there are many other wagons I'd support today.


On February 21 2014 22:14 Palmar wrote:
I have a plan. If toad flips mafia we lynch Oats, if he flips town we lynch kush.


Palmar any reason why you're lynching your 'vigi please' tier over me when you clearly are focused on lynching either me or Toad today?
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 13:51 GMT
#1093
On February 21 2014 21:33 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2014 21:31 Palmar wrote:
I am almost always terribly wrong on one mafia and call him town, so you could check out in my top 7.

But I think toad is a good day 1 lynch.

The problem is I agree completely with where you put absolutely everyone, except I'd probably move kush down one.


marv I take this to mean you think I'm scummy? I ask because you still haven't straight up said how Balla and I look even though you kept saying you had to go back and re-read our exchange.
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 13:54 GMT
#1096
So you're just content with trolling the newbie huh
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 14:05 GMT
#1104
Palmar tell me why my case is bad and why that makes me scummy.

And marv, if he does say 'oops I forgot about you' and then continues to push my lynch then there's some dissonance going on there. Because if he feels so strongly about me being scum but he's willing to lynch two 'vigi please' people over me (since vigi please is higher on the list), then his story and his actions don't check out.
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 14:08 GMT
#1109
##unvote
##vote Toadesstern
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 14:09 GMT
#1112
you could at least spell my name right
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 14:09 GMT
#1113
I've decided I don't like you either.
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 14:10 GMT
#1115
Palmor
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 14:12 GMT
#1119
marv just lay off.

Every time I try to ask questions I get shit on for being bad. Well maybe I am bad. So just give me a break.
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 14:14 GMT
#1123
You still haven't said what your opinion of balla and me are yet.
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 14:15 GMT
#1125
Are you going to question me on how asking you this has any relevance in the game? Or are you going to just straight up ignore me because you feel like it?
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 14:16 GMT
#1127
Well maybe I want him to say it straight up and say why he thinks that?
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
February 21 2014 14:22 GMT
#1135
On February 21 2014 22:53 marvellosity wrote:
that would be the interpretation yes. The 2nd exchange you had last night that I was able to pay more attention to/follow better had Balla looking better because he was doing the aggressive pursuing and you were quite defensive.


Sorry I missed this post.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL 2v2 ProLeague S3
20:00
LB FINAL
ZZZero.O205
Liquipedia
Epic.LAN
12:00
Epic.LAN 45 Playoffs Stage
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
CosmosSc2 86
JuggernautJason86
Ketroc 56
ProTech41
ForJumy 40
StarCraft: Brood War
ZZZero.O 205
firebathero 196
Aegong 43
Shine 32
yabsab 20
Stormgate
NightEnD35
Dota 2
monkeys_forever560
LuMiX1
League of Legends
Grubby4904
Counter-Strike
fl0m2557
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu583
Other Games
tarik_tv19218
summit1g11309
Skadoodle139
ViBE117
Trikslyr78
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2087
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 133
• sitaska68
• musti20045 38
• RyuSc2 34
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22647
Other Games
• imaqtpie2134
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
11h 51m
Online Event
17h 51m
Esports World Cup
2 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
3 days
Esports World Cup
4 days
Esports World Cup
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
Championship of Russia 2025
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.