EPT[S] Shadowed Mini Mafia: The Reboot
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On February 06 2014 08:47 jaybrundage wrote: I feel like scum are gonna have a harder time this game. Because we have all played with each other. (with the exception of the replacement) and we know a bit of how each player feels like. Honestly I think this is where the game starts getting fun haha. I'm looking forward to this cuz we've all played each other so we can all be friends n__n That said I suck at meta so 'fun' is a synonym for 'nail-biting nervous breakdown' | ||
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 But after that game I was completely burnt out and disappeared off the face of the planet until now. hahaha. | ||
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cuz I was vig | ||
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I'd probably shoot Jay and then push for your lynch day 2 haha. | ||
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On February 06 2014 16:58 sidesprang wrote: And BTW, I'm back! Yay You have time to participate now? | ||
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Why the hell is a giant post that balla OBVIOUSLY wrote before the roles were revealed, make him scum? ##vote JonnyLaw | ||
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:D | ||
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!!removevote !!vote Toadesstern | ||
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Balla scum would try to make it seem like I was trying to bus though. | ||
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On February 07 2014 07:18 jaybrundage wrote: ##Vote Balla This guy is thinking nothing like me this game : / ##unvote ##vote Balla legit. | ||
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On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote: @jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion? Legitimate question. Jay, since you're 0.29% more likely to be scum than me, and since you were the top 2 Day 1 lynch in the previous game, how do you plan to play differently in order to avoid being targeted for lynch this game? | ||
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##vote Jaybrundage What the hell are you seriously posting a super-serious-scum-hunt long ass post with quotes and reasoning two hours into the game? Take a CHILL PILL man. Holy shit. Why the hell are you in such a rush to find scum out of the first four people who have entered the thread. This attitude is completely different from last game and I don't mean that in a good way. | ||
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His Name shall not by tainted by scummy accusations. | ||
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Posting a long ass scum case this early just screams try-hard scum look at me I'm hunting scum! Why do you have to prove yourself this early as town, forcing a pure meta "koshi should be happy but he's not" argument to say that Koshi is definitely scum? | ||
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On February 07 2014 08:57 jaybrundage wrote: His post which I analyzed when he said that I feel "off" Is a very scummy post as well. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/q8Yh7eD.jpg) | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On February 07 2014 08:59 Toadesstern wrote: already a failure Have to figure out how I screwed up because I can't find ithttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20742596 | ||
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On February 07 2014 08:57 jaybrundage wrote: His post which I analyzed when he said that I feel "off" Is a very scummy post as well. On February 07 2014 08:08 JonnyLaw wrote: I hate this fucking post by the way. What is this supposed to accomplish? Bahhhh bahhhhh. Anyways it's kind of mean for me to troll you. But the hole you're digging yourself in is going straight to china at this rate. Maybe take a break because this Balla+Koshi chainsaw defense scum theory is not doing you any favours. | ||
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However, I find Jay's desire to scum hunt forced and contrived. I can't believe that he's seriously saying that you and Koshi are a scum team. I find his self-consciousness (that you pointed out) to be a scum tell on him because, as per my meta-read in Shadowed mafia, that was one of the features which I found in his scum play. I don't want to come to any hard conclusions on him yet because his tunnel on Koshi is stupid both as town and scum, and 'tryhard town' does seem like something he would do, however my vote on him is serious. | ||
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The vote wasa joke and Balla reads town to me from his attitude this game. | ||
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On February 07 2014 12:31 Oatsmaster wrote: yeah oh shit Suki does nothing about the case JayB posted, she never comments on it at all, just says its too tryhard and therefore scummy. Oh thats bad. She literally says nothing on whether the case was good/bad or why and whether koshi is town/scum or why. Just shits on it because its early in the game? ##vote Suki I skimmed JayB's case and didn't like it. I don't see the point in meta reading someone off of their pre-game content, or meta reading them 2 hours into the game as the game is still getting started. What threw me off was that he put in a ton of effort trying to find every little thing he could in order to paint Koshi as scum. He basically became super sure that Koshi was scum off of a weak case. He had already stated that he was going to scum hunt and he was hunting so hard it just felt forced and contrived. In other words, I didn't care about the case that he made, or the fact that it was made early, I cared about what motivations he could have had when making that case. Does it make more sense for town to hard tunnel someone off a weak case and try to make them look scummy, or does it make more sense for scum? The fact that the case was made so early is just a bonus point against a town scum-hunting mindset. In my opinion, it's more scummy to take this line of action. Thus I voted Jay. On Koshi Koshi has talked the talk. He just needs to walk the walk. His attitude is different in this game than last. He's more confident and more 'willing' to be active and contribute. If he doesn't hold up his end of the deal then he's an easy lynch. Other than that he hasn't done anything so I am waiting for his contributions when he returns. | ||
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As for things that made him contrived: On February 07 2014 07:51 jaybrundage wrote: I feel off. What a non committal post. After you say your vote is real. You make a terrible comment like that. I think what you mean to say. Is that you think I'm scum. BUT your scum so you know that not to be true and your waffling like crazy. Because even when you say the vote is real. Your very next line shows you have no conviction about it. Koshi is scum. I caught one :D My immediate response is, "... Is that supposed to be a joke post because it's in this weird limbo of serious and joking that just makes it seem calculated and forced." On February 07 2014 08:19 jaybrundage wrote: HEY YOU STOP STEALING MY THUNDER /end jokey rank Blah blah blah. Then he posts his big gigantic case where he quotes pre-game quotes and his verdict is Koshi is scum because he's not happy enough. How is that not contrived? | ||
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Sidesprang Sidesprang is not a high-quantity player. This is true throughout all his games. I noticed something when I was reading his posts while catching up, and this notion became stronger when I reread his filter. With this notion in mind, I then looked up his game history. I found 3 town games and 1 mafia game. Meta analysis in spoiler: + Show Spoiler + In all his games he has a very short filter. In his town games, Sidesprang uses his posts the ask difficult questions and hunt scum. He does this in all three games (Although TL Mafia XX is not a good example I feel as he mostly spends his time apologizing for not being there, but he does post his opinions and stays away from policy talk etc). http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=436388&user=sidesprang http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434723&user=sidesprang http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=115243&user=sidesprang In the one scum game I found (If there are more let me know), sidesprang does not scum hunt but rather wastes a lot of time talking about policy, discussing setup, etc. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=111913&user=sidesprang Now my point with this case is not to say that sidesprang is totes scum, but rather to point out some observations that I've made that make it seem that he is in a different mindset this game, and that this mindset makes him more likely scum. sidesprang's attitude this game feels different from his town games. He asks 'Are you basing your scum read on Suki just off meta atm?' then spends two large posts talking about how my meta is different and basically soft-defending me. I'm used to sidesprang asking tough questions, questions whose answers have meaning. It's kind of subtle but I feel like if sidesprang really cared about Aquanim's answer he would have waited for Aqua's reply. The other thing I noticed is that when he talked about Jay, he talked directly to Jay 'Regarding your Koshi case.. you better get more meat on it ... I think it's too early to call you scum...' In all of his town games he has always referred to other players as 'this guy' and spoke about them in the third person. Not once did he ever directly write an analysis against someone as if he was talking to them. A weak point but just something that caught my eye. - This is admittedly a lot of words to describe a few subtle things. However there was just something different about sidesprang this game, and I wanted to explore it. Now that I have I want to share this information and just keep a closer eye on him. The fact that so much has happened in the thread and sidesprang has only called Jay scummy is something that is different than his previous town games. The fact that he spends a lot of time discussing my meta feels like he's playing this game with a different mindset, one that's not so focused on scum hunting and more focused on looking like he's contributing. In fact, in the previous three town games that I skimmed I didn't see one instance of him defending a player. All his efforts were on scum hunting. So. Conclusion: Sidesprang is scummy because his approach to this game is different, which can be seen as scummy for the reasons expressed above. We should keep a close eye on him and see how he chooses to continue the game. | ||
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Obviously he's changed his style, but he's done a complete 180. And my gut says it feels more forced than it should be, but if you don't see it then we can agree to disagree. | ||
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On February 07 2014 13:39 Balla24 wrote: Here he says that he finds Jay's excuse-making and self-doubt "weary" but doesn't think it makes him scum (or at least that's what I gather from him asking "does that make him scum?" after literally saying "it's scummy sure", which is really weird in itself). This is in direct contrast to what I know of town jonny. The guy LOVES to pick at this stuff. That is a sick sick catch Balla, My King. The fact that Jonny hasn't jumped on Jay at all is really suspicious, especially Jay's post where you pointed out he was making excuses for no reason. Another thing I noticed about Jonny is that he spends a lot of time saying how stupid your opening post is, but that's all it amounts to. Just adding fluff to the game. He appreciates I start the game 'with style' by asking him this question "Why the hell is a giant post that balla OBVIOUSLY wrote before the roles were revealed, make him scum?", and then proceeds to ignore my question and continue to berate balla for the bad post. | ||
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Jay is objectively scummy and I'm happy where my vote is. | ||
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I told you why I thought Jay's play was forced and why I think it's scummy and you don't agree with it. What else am I going to do? His case against Koshi is BAD. Seriously. Koshi is scum because he's not happy? Tell me why you think his case against Koshi is good and maybe we can have a decent discussion. | ||
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I wish to see him dance and tell tales now that the castle is alive with our many guests, before forming any further opinions of his conduct. | ||
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Alone, but for the company of my faithful pet.+ Show Spoiler + bahhhhhhhhh | ||
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On February 07 2014 17:56 sidesprang wrote: If you want to apply meta read on me, then do not use my almost 4 year old games. It wont get you anywhere good. You are correct that my mindset and play this game is different. Last month i've been coached and I've shadowed, both for first time. So I do hope I picked up something, that will hopefully improve my play. Perfectly legitimate appeal. So let's see what he's done since this post. On February 07 2014 18:44 sidesprang wrote: k, dont wanna give out town / nullreads tho cause I don't see the town benefit in doing so. Currently I got three people on my watchlist. JayB: This guy was an easy townread for me last game. ATM I'm not getting that at all, he made loads of bad posts so far, which don't make you scum. But I'm not getting the same easy read as last game which makes me wanting to see more contributions from him. Jonny: A lot of the same as JayB. Had this guy as an easy townread in my Newbie game. Not getting the same vibe atm. He got a Balla case coming up tho, so let's see where that goes. Oats: He sheeped onto JayB, and seems certain he is scum. Without adding his own thoughts. He was also quick to jump on Suki when aqua mentioned her, which I found wierd seeing how certain he acted against JayB. feels like it could be from town sidesprang.... but uh that's about it. He has like two more posts. He glosses over Oats' questions about my case on him. Overall my opinion hasn't changed, different in a scummy way and still need to see more, but I think some hard questions directed at him are in order. | ||
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Hi Sidesprang, Like Oats said, Aqua was only questioning about my meta (which you so kindly commented on). His case on me was completely separate from Aqua's line of thought. You said 'without adding his own thoughts, he was also quick to jump on suki', but he clearly posted why he was voting me: On February 07 2014 12:31 Oatsmaster wrote: yeah oh shit Suki does nothing about the case JayB posted, she never comments on it at all, just says its too tryhard and therefore scummy. Oh thats bad. She literally says nothing on whether the case was good/bad or why and whether koshi is town/scum or why. Just shits on it because its early in the game? ##vote Suki I'd like you to comment on his case and his pressure on me. How is Oats scummy from his actions? | ||
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On February 07 2014 22:39 Aquanim wrote: About Sidesprang ... do you think his analysis of your meta is accurate? Basically his comment is, I'm more trolly and having fun compared to all my previous games. This is obviously true. Overall it's accurate but he's not really saying anything deep. I'm not going to tell you whether or not this is more likely to come from a town suki or a scum suki, because as we learned last game from Koshi a person saying that X and Y can't come from them when they're scum doesn't mean anything. I'll let you come to that conclusion on your own. | ||
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On February 07 2014 22:39 Aquanim wrote: About Sidesprang's 'focus' on discussing your meta and defending you... do you think that's more reasonable considering that I specifically asked for opinions on my observations about you? It's reasonable. I'm willing to wait and see what else he contributes. | ||
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@sidesprang Oats asked you what you think of me and Balla and you didn't answer. I also would like to know your thoughts on Balla. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + The Chancellor is always evil! and more than likely a monster disgused as a human | ||
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On February 07 2014 21:16 Koshi wrote: This is such fucking bullshit btw. No way a townie says that with what he got. No fucking way. Seconding the motion that this is bullshit. @Jay Tell me your reasons for wanting to narrow the lynch between Balla and Koshi 2 hours into the game? | ||
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Who do you find scummy right now? | ||
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On February 07 2014 12:15 Aquanim wrote: Hey guys I'd like to discuss Suki Filter in the original game as town: Asks lots of questions, discusses reads, VERY direct Filter in this game: Mostly trolly one-liners about "King" Balla, doesn't talk much about reads unless directly asked, is not asking many questions. I haven't thoroughly meta-d Suki but I'm really feeling a serious gap in her attitude between the two games. I can't see any reason in Suki's filter to think she is town so far. Does anyone else have any? What do you think of me currently Aqua? Has your opinion that you don't see anything to think I'm town changed? What are your conclusions about the meta case on me? | ||
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On February 07 2014 23:50 Koshi wrote: Nha, I don't want to be the Chancellor. I get this image in my head of a sneaky guy that spits venom in the ear of the King. Make me Lord. Lord Koshi. Wahaha yesss the Chancellor is always evil >D Very well then my subject. I shall dub thee, Lord Koshi of Koshington. | ||
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On February 07 2014 12:22 jaybrundage wrote: Yea I didn't like her play so much as I mentioned in my response to her earlier. I hesitated on calling her scum tho lol. I had already been pretty ambitious with calling people scum this game. I found it odd that she ignored my correction of her post where she is trolling me. But is completely wrong on it because she mixed up which post came first. I would of expected an opps or oh my thing. But she didn't even comment on it. That just seemed odd to me. As suki is usually first to make amends when she makes a mistake. I keep forgetting to comment on this. I did get the order wrong, my bad. | ||
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Is there any one else who you find scummy? Still would like your opinion of Balla on record. | ||
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I know that slam can check the game from his phone and has no qualms about posting from his phone. This behaviour is not typical of either of them. | ||
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As I recall last game you were gone, then you came back and started making posts, which convinced me and a few others that you were ok to not vote for D1 lynch. Do you think the same should apply to this game with LM and slam if they start posting soon? What would clear them in your minds, assuming they aren't going to be modkilled/replaced? | ||
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Care to rephrase in more solid terms? | ||
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I guess I'll do that now. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + Scum in Roulette Mini Mafia On June 04 2013 09:13 jaybrundage wrote: So im down with the whole claim role thing. But if the scum can also get the roles it doesnt really lead us to any lynches. But i guess the point of it would be transparency and all that jazz. I hate playing with people i never played with before I cant rely on previous experiences Also if anyone has not played with me I would suggest reading a previous game or two I play rather..... unorthodox (I occasionally be hardcore lynchbait D:)Kinda all over the place but I always feel like day 1 is just typing shit until someone says something questionable. Then the Rage-arguments take place :D self-consciousness. On June 05 2013 05:55 jaybrundage wrote: Maybe you missed the post where i said to go look at previous games. I said that im often lynch bait because its true. As town i often get mislynched. I prefer for people to know this and take at look at my play rather then straight up die as town for my play. Me poking someone with a stick is not pressure. The fact that you have that in your case shows how weak it is. Besides the fact that your just piggy backing of someone elses post. The fact that you think a joke post is the scummiest post as of yet just shows your lack of a real case. #Vote S0lstice self-consciousness. On June 05 2013 10:59 jaybrundage wrote: Well how would you start day 1. I stuggle day one because there is no content to go off of. And the whole purpose is to create content. excuses. Scum in British Empire Mini Mafia II On March 05 2013 19:31 jaybrundage wrote: Meh, don't like that we already have an outed blue already. But whatever, no reason crying over spilled claims. Not sure what I think about the early votes. Its prolly people fooling around OR SCUM TRYING TO GET AN EASY LYNCH o.o Buuuuut prolly za jokes. Also scum Yamato did this last game. And he got away with it D: YOU KNOW THIS AND STILL VOTE ME QQ joking attitude with mislynch comment. On March 06 2013 11:01 jaybrundage wrote: I saw this coming. People would comment on how i wanted to lynch Dandel but now my votes on thrawn. I wanted to vote dandel because of his complete lack of content in his posts. He (finally) started putting in at least some effort with going for Vivax. Which is a plus. He isn't a townie read my any means. But I completly forgot about thrawn. When you mentioned him I remembered Lamp and his meta case on Thrawn as scum super lurking. That is exactly the case here. Once thrawn found out his role pm he legit stopped posting. He lurked super hard and attributed it to life reasons. Ill be damned if thrawn doesnt come back and give the same excuse. Also if you recall Hapa I was going after DP and then you had a read on him so i backed down eventually I didn't want to do a 180 then because i was worried about how it would look. But if you have a town read on Vivax I respect that and wouldn't want to go against your reads regardless. On March 06 2013 11:25 jaybrundage wrote: I wasn't confident in my reads. I wanted to act like i was to try to put more pressure on them (dandel, vivax) Never have been big on questioning my scum reads tbh. Thats more your forte. My reckoning is if someone is scum they wont give any satisfactory answers anyway. But ill try it out. As for going with the flow. Your right. I prefer to go with people's reads I have a town read on. I have done this to death palmar and even you at points in games. I hate day 1 for a reason. There is no concrete information to go on. self-consciousness. Town in Nomination Mafia On February 08 2013 13:52 jaybrundage wrote: In regards to the bold isnt that what everyone does? In all seriousness there isn't much to say about JX. JX was lurking hard and didn't contribute anything till some pressure was on him and even then he didn't produce much. I was having second thoughts about him per palmars post but no one wanted to lynch prplhz. I dont care if i bring your comments on Oats back to the limelight. If I think something you did was questionable I will call it out. You stated something I didn't agree with so I said as much. And are you fucking kidding me with this consolidation bit. Ofc we have to consolidate as town. If we don't it gives mafia more leeway to swing the vote. Also you your self were asking people to consolidate on JX so how is what you say even make sense. Also why do you ask if im a bad townie. Why not just ask if people think I'm scum? Notice how he doesn't really defend himself, he just shoots back a question. On February 08 2013 14:35 jaybrundage wrote: I fail to see anything in your response that indicates im scum. The mislynch occurred cause JX was lurking hard till pressure was applied to him. And he didn't respond in a townie way. I once heard a good town player say. That for the day one lynch the only thing you need to do as town is to make sure you aren't the jackass that gets lynched. You usually have to play badly for it to happen. Also yes I prefered JX to die over Palmar wasn't that clear. Your issue with consolidation isn't a real issue. It was the end of the day and I asked people to consolidate. Again, he doesn't excuse his play he re-iterates his reasoning. On February 08 2013 23:46 jaybrundage wrote: To give you some quick context. I am the best mislynch na. I used to get lynched about 90 percent of my games, though I have improved a bit cause people were getting used to my meta aka being scummy as fuck as town. I usually lurk hard as scum and get spammy as town. But this game I don't wanna get overly spammy as it makes me look scummy lol. Questions? He is best mislynch NA. But it's not in the joking manner as before. His tone is more serious. Town in Normal Mini Mafia IV On January 30 2013 09:16 jaybrundage wrote: This is your pressure vote are you fucking srs? Or do you actually think im scum Questions when he's pressure voted rather than defensive or instant counter attack. On January 30 2013 10:24 jaybrundage wrote: What the hell are you talking about. God forbid I have more then one scum read. Sharrant and JX are both scummy. Yes JX voted thrawn early but it doesn't make all his scummy actions irrelevant. Also Iamp also had JX as a scummy read. I have Lamp as a town read and i give his opinion some weight in my decisions. That is primarily why I started rereading filters and such to see if i could see what he said about Sharrant and JX. Note the confident attitude. Town (Fake doctor? XD) in our previous Shadowed Mini Mafia On February 04 2014 12:24 jaybrundage wrote: Oh I answered all those questions in my Google spreadsheet already. I ll post what I got on you guys so far. Its not all up to date on the recent things that happened. 1. Balla24 Town I like him so far very aggressive and making discussion and seems like a real player in this game 2. Sidesprang Bleh One post so far I knew he would be a candidate for a policy lynch and hes confirming that. 3. Alakaslam Posted 2 things with no content so far 4. cakemanofdoom no content There is quite a bit of things in the game atm and he chooses to comment on suki saying thats nice. Pretty lackluster choice 5. LoneMeow slightly scummy His first post sucked I don't like it at all and might be down to vote him just based on that. He followed up with basic policy stuff. I dont like him so far 6. Jaybrundage The towniest town that ever towned 7. Hopeless1der Meh we argued a bit over nothing hasn't posted any content tho so much is going on in the thread where did he go? 8. Oatsmaster Hasn't posted yet. I think at the start of the game is pretty late for him tho 9. JonnyLaw Pretty waffly at the start. He is posting but he doesn't seem to have firm convictions. He didn't liike Balla early but he has played with baller 3-2 times with him being scum so his suspicion is warrented. He hasn't produced much content tho he just seems like going with the flow 10. Suki scummy I don't like suki so far she just seems like she has no real motivation behind her posting. Her poke at jonnys waffleing was ok but then when balla inquired about it she said she never said she implied hes scum or anything LIke wtf? Why poke at someone but have no real reason behind it. It would seem that she didn't understand him but then she didn't say that she got very defensive. Said she didn't see anything with LM posting slight defending I dont like her atm 11. Koshi Posted some generic lets post alot then disappeared No waffling here, no excuses on 'I can't get reads easy in D1' On February 05 2014 02:15 jaybrundage wrote: I understood them in the sense that you think im scummy and don't like some of my posts. However why you thought they were scummy is a mystery to me. I would love to hear your thinking. I still adhere to the fact that if you can't see someone's username and see who is posting what. That your reads are going to be terrible. I hope you can read the game knowing who is posting what. Confidence. No heavy defense, no excuses. On February 05 2014 12:13 jaybrundage wrote: I have no need to defend oats. Oats can do that himself. I liked the case in general. Why should I nitpick when I have no need too. Can I not agree with a case? I liked the case. Its that simple. I agree with the case. I dont see how you don't get it. Yes I changed my read on suki. I'm trying to figure out the game. She made a good case so more likely to be town. More confidence. Jay's play this game: + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2014 07:36 jaybrundage wrote: It might be a rough game. I tryharded the shit out of last game. And jonny wanted to lynch me cause I was "acting" like town. I guess the first thing would be too not give as much advice this game. 1. Because I said it last game. 2. Because now I can just policy lynch lurkers cause they have been warned :D I want to just say scum hunt more. But its not easy too early day 1. Maybe more pressure less advice for the early day. excuses. On February 07 2014 07:51 jaybrundage wrote: I feel off. What a non committal post. After you say your vote is real. You make a terrible comment like that. I think what you mean to say. Is that you think I'm scum. BUT your scum so you know that not to be true and your waffling like crazy. Because even when you say the vote is real. Your very next line shows you have no conviction about it. Koshi is scum. I caught one :D Immediate counter attack. Something tells me town Jay would be more likely to say "Can you explain why I feel off?" and prod with questions. In other words, his townie confidence is missing. On February 07 2014 08:55 jaybrundage wrote: Suki. Being aggressive does not =! equal scum. I am scum hunting. Why are you voting me. Instead of reading up on my case and seeing if it has merit. You asked me how I was going to change my approach this game. I said it was going to try to do more pressuring and scum hunting. I am doing that. Should I not want to lynch scum this game. Your question doesn't make sense. It is not that they are in the first four people in the game that I have targeted them. I have targeted balla and Koshi because I find them the most likely to be scum. I think Jonny on the other hand is hella townie atm. Self consciousness. Defensive, trying to provide reasons for the way he is playing. On February 07 2014 11:44 jaybrundage wrote: I can't win with this town. If I give advice and try to make well thought out posts. Then I'm giving advice and I'm not scum hunting enough. If I actively try to scum hunt and push things I think are scummy. Then I'm scummy for unknown reasons. Pretty frustrating. This is new. I don't think I've seen frustration in his previous games so I don't have a meta read on what this means. The thing that comes to mind is if he was confident townie he probably wouldn't care that people are calling him scummy and would question them right back in their faces. Joking tone that's present in his scum games when he mentions he's #1 mislynch. On February 07 2014 11:54 jaybrundage wrote: Balla talk to me why do you think my push on Koshi is scummy. I think while it isn't the most amazing case. It is after all an early day 1 case. And I think alot of things I said are completely true. Self-conscious. This sort of thing doesn't show up in his town games. + Show Spoiler + just look at this quote from the previous game: On February 05 2014 11:49 jaybrundage wrote: Yes I thought suki was scummy before. Her thing about not calling Jonny scum but interesting or what ever word she used did bother me. She just seemed to have no point to your posts. However with her case on Oats it showed that she wasn't just trying to appear to be posting. She actually was analyzing the game and looking for scum. So my read turned on her. Is it possible she's scum that noticed she was getting heat and decided to post a case? Sure possible. But I think the most likely possibility at this point is town. I don't remember Oats too well in my previous games. He was never someone I really suspected. He can be hard to draw a bead on sometimes. Not a huge poster mostly short clip comments. I even had to go back and look briefly at the LoL PYP game. I think the case made good points I hadn't noticed before. Oats was not on my lynch list before Suki posted her case. And she made a good enough case for me to consider lynching him. Also I felt the reason to make my own case because I want to contribute to the town. I didn't plan to just sheep Suki's read and just say yea I like all this Ill join. Because I wanted to post my own analysis I got's me an ego you know. Also by posting other scummy people we can choose as a town who we want to go for based on the information we have. Notice how his reasons for finding me scummy were weak, however he doesn't say 'Oh yeah my reasons for thinking suki was scummy weren't that great.' he simply states what he thought. Ie. Confidence. On February 07 2014 13:50 jaybrundage wrote: Does what I said make sense to you from a town perspective now? Why does he care that other people think he's town? Again, self-conscious, lack of confidence. On February 08 2014 02:24 jaybrundage wrote: Yea Balla is leaning town for me atm. I still think Koshi could be scum but everyone shitting on my push on him, means that the push wasn't not as good as I thought it was. So I won't be pushing him now and will try to get reads on other people. excuses. Huh. I think I've just convinced myself Jay is pretty damn scummy. Also I noticed how in the town examples above, Jay has no problem asking people why they think he's scum, or confirming that they their read on him is that he's scum. In this game he'd rather defend himself than confirm someone's scum read or call them out on it. | ||
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On February 08 2014 04:55 Alakaslam wrote: I have been working both days and nights with little rest periods. Has been really bad. I did some reading though, and fwiw the start of the game had me really suspicious of the big change in Suki and Balla24's play. Can that stuff be explained? Things like a joke probabilities post about an RNG situation and kingship stuff, I really don't get it. Time wasting and whatnot, why did you do it? Because I'm in a good mood and I felt like having a bit of fun. Is this suspicious 'big change' making you think I'm scummy? Why? | ||
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On February 08 2014 05:19 LoneMeow wrote: Okay, so: JonnyLaw Not playing to his usual aggressive, abrasive town meta (and he was called very town for it in the previous game, so there's no reason to change). Posting a lot of one liners and not volunteering his opinion. Verdict: scummy Can you provide some examples to back this up? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + Cop in II Titanic On December 10 2013 09:42 sidesprang wrote: Ok, so a lot of things going on. I agree we should not let lurkers stay silent, and should poke anyone that stays silent for to long. But there is a lot of value in not spamming down the thread if you are town, that will only make the scummy post harder to see. I'm mainly looking at you Xatalos, as you are on your third page in filter with like half of the post being oneliners. Even if town you will be detrimental to the town if you keep this up! There are others aswell, just used you as an example. -------- About Cora there are a few things I did not like and caught my eye. His opening post is not good, and if he's mafia hes basically just buying himself an excuse to lurk for day 1 and then come out day 2 and bring chaos onto the town. He also deflected a lot in his defence and basically just said "look at X he's scummier than me". And lastly he asked for people to vote for him if they found him scummy, which is very Anti-Town. I do not feel cora is mafia yet at least, but definetly worth to look at. ------- @Kish, can anyone that have played with him earlier say something about how he plays. He is deffo playing the most anti town atm, but he's also doing it on purpose which is frustrating. This is pretty much his first post in the game. Notice he writes a short thing about policy and then starts scum hunting. Most of his posts in this game are scum hunting, but I didn't find many difficult questions in this one. Town in Newbie Mini Mafia LI On January 06 2014 08:10 sidesprang wrote: You don't see a reason why people should help Bella with creating a "tough environment for mafia to hide in and lynch some mafia" ? Starts the game off with a pointed question trying to find TheChyz's motives. On January 06 2014 08:59 sidesprang wrote: @ onlywonderboy atm he is just null for me. from his PoV he has only stated obvious things so far. It not really contributing atm, but its to early to fault him for that. And he does say he is going to more active and contribute with meaningfull analysis, so as long as he atleast tries to do this we should be able to read him in the future. @ thechyz, I don't like him atm. In his first post he says he agrees with you and dont mind lynching lurkers to discourage lurking. But then in his second post he says he see no reason to why people should help you achivieving that same agenda he just agreed with. Feels very much like a contradiction to me. This is his third post in the game and he's pointing out contradictions. On January 07 2014 15:33 sidesprang wrote: @theDragoon Who would you vote for now and why ? Also, why did you change your mind and wanted to defend yourself afterall ? Questioning TheDragoon who was the top lynch candidate of the day. sidesprang was wary that the lynch on theDragoon was going to smoothly and tried getting information from theDragoon before the lynch. Miller in TL Mafia XX He spends most of the game apologizing for his low post quantity. scum in TL Mafia XVIII Like sidesprang pointed out, this scum game is from 4 years ago, something that I didn't think about as I was just looking through past games and not noticing the date. Regardless, I'll include some posts here to show where my line of thought came from in my case that I wrote up. On February 14 2010 12:00 sidesprang wrote: I definatly agree that we should not lynch someone based on day one clues, unless someone can make a foolproof case. But they should definatly be discussed and looked through, cause they could help us put the pieces toghter at a later day. And it also gives us something to talk about, and im pretty sure the more posts there are the more information one could gather from this game and put it togheter. policy talk to start the game On February 15 2010 00:30 sidesprang wrote: L's point about beeing 20 mafia and that it will take a long time before we get two different clues on a single mafia i dont really think is true. Last game i was in there was 8 mafia and they had 3kp. meaning at day 3 we in the worst case scenario had 1 mafia with double clues. In this game there is 20 mafia and 6 KP, meaning in the worst case we would have 4 double clues at day 4. But you with there beeing possible 12 mafia kills and 2 lynces one should think/hope that some mafia would die, and we get double clues at day 3 again. Two posts later, setup talk. On February 16 2010 08:05 sidesprang wrote: Man your so wrong about the overlapping clues thing. If we dont see overlapping clues before day 6, it is because the mafia only hits the town. And that is not realistic. The mafia hitting 1/3 each lynch seems realistic if not to low to me. Then we have 6 dead by day 3. And already overlapping clues. Altho the mafia would prolly have overlapping hits. But my point still stands. We will see overlapping hits WAY before day 6, and if we dont we're allready doomed cause we've lost half our town  The next post, more setup talk. On February 21 2010 12:10 sidesprang wrote: i changed my vote to quickstriker, but i dont see why we should not double lynch tomorrow. Since i feel we have alot of good clues to work of, and we will get more. So you're gonna have to give more reasons for me to take away my double lynch vote. No reason for his vote. On February 26 2010 16:59 sidesprang wrote: First, my votes are not set in stone. If so i would not have voted so early. But its the weekend coming up and i know im definatly going out on saturday(and the voting closes 1AM(or something like that) in norway. So i had to vote something in case i wont have the time later, ofc i could have abstained but i think scamp is mafia and that L might be and he voting scamp, because of the cluelink towards you. voting L, because he has lead this town on so many wrong turns. And i don't see any real proof of him beeing non mafia, and if he is mafia he has gotten away with far to much allready. reasons for not voting johnnyspaz who i think is definatly mafia, let the other mafia team kill him. And to the clue link from malongo, im not really sure what aristocracy of money means but for the rest of the first bold sentence i feel that is a huge strech. And im not decafchickens friend  And the bold part number two. That has to be a clue to johhnyspaz, i mean he gets turn into a pincushion. And he has a picture of sonic the hedgehog. Basically this is his only scum hunting effort in the game. Again, his filter was super short, but the thing that I noticed is the lack of scumhunting compared to his other town games. But I missed something big in my meta analysis.. That is, sidesprang was scum in the original Shadowed game. Scum in Shadowed Mafia On February 04 2014 10:14 sidesprang wrote: Lol wtf game started today afterall. Anyhow regarding policy shit, not much to say, think it's covered allready. But yeh, look for content instead not postcount. We do NOT want ppl spamming useless shit. Why did you want Jonny to out Ballas scumtells in the thread this early before Balla even had a chance to play into them ? On February 04 2014 12:29 sidesprang wrote: Firstly its Sidesprang, not sidesprung or whatever else ppl think it is. I don't mind Balla voting for LM, because I think if he keeps on playing like this he will hopefully be easy to read. As for why he voted I dont really agree with. LM's stance on koshi's "plan" is kinda like mine. Judge people based on content not number of posts, and also only reason to lynch lurkers is if there are no better options available. I liked your response, you had a reason for asking it and you had logic backing it up. Answer felt honest. Tho I do not agree with your logic. It's nice and all generating discussion, but I dont think going over ppl's meta this early is wise. As I think it would be harder to use meta against players if it's been discussed in thread first. The whole suki / jonny deal requires more thought if I wanna read something out of it. Aka atm I don't really know, and I will read more up on that tomorrow when I got better time. I got some people whom I feel are playing protown atm, but I see no reason sharing townreads at this point. I don't have scumreads atm, tho I got a bit interested in Suki since she disliked your post. A post I liked cause you are doing what I think you should be doing with lurkers (get them to post, so you can read them, not lynch them blindly). People should post enough to be readable and enough to get their scumreads out. I don't belive in a set number. his first two posts in the game. Basically... He doesn't spend time on policy talk and he starts hunting right away. So yeah. Taking this into account my case on sidesprang doesn't hold any water. Based on the games that I linked in my original post, I think that my conclusions were reasonable - policy talk in his scum game and scum hunting in his town games. But taking into account the previous Shadowed game where he was scum it's obvious he's changed (read improved) his scum game quite a bit. Anyways, I suppose I'm null on sidesprang for now. I'll take a closer look at him later. | ||
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Going through the previous town games of his I don't see too much difference between those games and this game. He's always posted one liners, with the occasional longer post here and there. One of the things that I didn't like about his play that I've mentioned is he keeps on shitting on Balla's opening post way after he says it's useless to talk about it.. But in Shadowed Mafia he actually does the same with Koshi's opening. Keeps on mentioning it despite saying it's useless. I think there's not enough for me to come to a conclusion on him yet. I'm eagerly anticipating his case on Balla and the next few people he pushes. | ||
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On February 08 2014 06:21 LoneMeow wrote: If you look at the previous aborted game, he did have one liners but he also posted quite a lot of longer posts where he actively volunteered his thoughts and reads on players. That's what is missing in this game, along with the aggression and hostility towards players he thinks are scum. true but so far he's been in the thread twice I believe? Right at the beginning and then when he was drunk. Let's see how he fares when he comes back today. | ||
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Let's talk about how he started a choo choo train on me, and then I came and posted my meta case on Sidesprang and he decided that sidesprang was now a good target. Hmm.. | ||
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On February 07 2014 11:39 Oatsmaster wrote: Jay is scummy scum scum. Although he seems to really believe in this. The thing with his case on Koshi is that you cant make the case 3 hours into day 1. It doesnt work, not enough evidence. But is it too bad to be scum? Still making up my mind on that. Wafflingggg On February 07 2014 11:40 Oatsmaster wrote: BUT HE WROTE IT PREGAME. LIKE YOU DONT TALK ABOUT PREGAME DURING THE GAME DO YOU? ##vote Jay Then he changes to: On February 07 2014 18:42 Oatsmaster wrote: I kinda dont think either are scum. I need to check JayB's last scum games but I dont think so. Its like both of their pushes on Koshi were so bad. What do you think of Suki and Balla? He's referring to Jay and Jonny when he says 'I kinda don't think either are scum'. On February 07 2014 20:10 Oatsmaster wrote: For jayB, I understand where he is coming from though. Its like he finally understood the questions and was able to phrase his thought process properly. | ||
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I also want to know what made him go from Jay is scummy scum scum to thinking he's not scum. | ||
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I read through his game and I think he's townie, but I have reservations on it because last game I totally thought he was townie and he was scum. I'm all meta'd out for the day so I don't feel like diving and seeing how his play was in past games at the moment. Just wondering if anything sticks out to you. | ||
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On February 08 2014 06:52 LoneMeow wrote: I really don't want connection cases on unflipped players. And I'm not sold on jaybrundage just yet, either. See my earlier post, he has some posts that make him look pretty town after the terrible ones. Yeah you mentioned this: On February 07 2014 11:44 jaybrundage wrote: I can't win with this town. If I give advice and try to make well thought out posts. Then I'm giving advice and I'm not scum hunting enough. If I actively try to scum hunt and push things I think are scummy. Then I'm scummy for unknown reasons. Pretty frustrating. And I noticed it in my meta analysis too.. Frustration is something that I haven't seen from Jay before. But like.. On February 07 2014 11:52 jaybrundage wrote: The reasons I find Koshi scummy haven't changed. I am not sure about balla. I really didn't like one of his posts. Where he called me scummy for scum hunting on Koshi. But I'm not sure if I was so convicted that Koshi was scum that I assumed anyone defending him was his scum buddy. However it might be just as likely that Balla was a townie trying to get some... I don't even know. Like I don't understand him defending Koshi so much when I was trying to scum hunt. Instead of looking at what I was representing. I don't understand scum reads on me. I mostly lurk as scum. As town I give reads freely and am much more carefree. This just.. He's just giving excuses. + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2014 13:11 jaybrundage wrote: Ok so this makes alot more sense. You were not saying my initial response to Koshi's vote on my post was scummy. You think my response to him validating the seriousness of his vote was scummy. Ok so let me go thru my reasoning. So Koshi comes back after I dismiss his post and responds with that his vote is "very real" However where he should put a reason about why his vote is real. He instead just says "you feel off." So this is in hindsight perhaps where I may have misread Koshi's intention with that post. It might have been a joke post and he wasn't being serious. But what I thought was that Koshi actually thought I was scum. He said the vote was real... Twice. So I assumed that he was serious and voting me with the intention that he thought I was scum. At this point I believe that I was making up my case on why Koshi's first post not being excited was scummy. So I was already thinking that Koshi was mafia. This just firmed that in my mind. I had brushed off his vote on me as not being serious. So when he does say its serious he gives me the reason why. The reason is "You feel off" That was it. This is a very noncommittal answer and I think it reeks of scum. I had no reason to ask for why he voted me cause he already provided it it was "You feel off." So instead of asking him I dissected why I thought this post was scummy. Does my thinking make sense? And even when I did ask Koshi why he felt i was off. He never expanded on it. Also you confused me originally with what you said in your post If you are town, your reaction to these "fake votes" would be completely different. But you were not talking about my reaction to the fake votes. You were talking about my reaction to Koshi's explanation that his vote was real. and this.. so much backtracking. Like... uughh. In Shadowed Mafia he was top 2 lynch target and he was nothing like this. | ||
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One of the things that happened was I made some contradiction that people were all calling me out on, and I thought really hard about a way to explain it so it wasn't contradictory. So then I posted my defense, and people were like yeah I guess that sounds reasonable but we're going to lynch you anyways because you're the most scummy. Afterwards, people were telling me that my defense almost had them convinced and that's where I think people were telling me that they thought I would be a good mafia player. Sooo in short, JayB being able to explain away his crappy early activity is not a townie point. The fact that he wastes so much effort defending himself and explaining him is a point against him, as per my meta analysis. | ||
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Actually LoneMeow, are those 'townie feeling posts' really the only reason why you're not sure Jay's scummy? Do you think his actions this game have been town motivated? | ||
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His attitude is confident. Like, his whole 'You will know town Koshi' spiel. Completely different from last game where he came in with his 40 post policy and ended up giving it up halfway through Day 1. He's been contributing and pressuring people. Some posts I like: + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2014 19:12 Koshi wrote: Oats. Veteran question. Look at this quote from jayB: Before this post I was puzzled about the reasoning of jayB and why he thought he found me scum. It was almost too scummy to be scum. But this post actually made me rethink that and made me think that he actually had a townie mindset going after me. The problem I am having here is that if he actually is town, why wasn't he able to make that shine through faster? This quote is near the end of page 3 off his filter. To me it feels like he finally was able to twist his story into something that could come from town. But why couldn't he do it earlier? That reponse instantly would have made me back off and not think twice, this time I backed off but now that I think about it again I am puzzled. Your opinion? On February 07 2014 19:36 Koshi wrote: Why isn't he bad town? It kinda looks like LM his cases previous game and you were spot on there. Also can you comment on the jayB thing I asked earlier? On February 07 2014 21:16 Koshi wrote: This is such fucking bullshit btw. No way a townie says that with what he got. No fucking way. On February 07 2014 23:21 Koshi wrote: I just think it is too easy coming from Oats. His vote previous game on me was actually based on us playing together and he knew something was off. His vote on Hopeless same story. I don't really know how he ended up on Cake in the end though. I guess we played him and he had no clue anymore. But this game his vote on jayB was meh. His vote on Suki was meh. His vote on Sidesprang is meh. And he hasn't called anybody town yet and came in the thread trowing some suspicion on Aqua which I didn't like at all. He's motivated and involved in the game. He's open with his reads. He's active. So yeah I think he's pretty townie. | ||
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On February 08 2014 09:22 jaybrundage wrote: Suki the reasons your case holds no water is because I stated I would be changing my gameplay. You asked me how I would change and I told you. Less advice more scum hunting. And what did I do I scum hunted. It was new information in the thread and whether you don't like my case or not. I said what I was going to do and did it. Also in regards to my self consciousnesses I almost got mislynched day 1 last game. Don't you think I would look over my game and be kind of hesitant to just play the same. I was thinking about my actions and for good reason. I don't want to get mislynched again. The only scum hunting I see from you is a refusal to let go of a bad tunnel on Koshi and a policy lynch on a lurker. What are your thoughts on Jonny? What are your thoughts on Oats and LoneMeow? Who else do you find scummy? Why aren't you pushing a Koshi lynch because 'he's not on the menu'? As I recall, last game people were mostly on LoneMeow right at the deadline, and a few people hopped off LM and onto you. The vote count was: LoneMeow (4): Koshi, suki, Balla, jay Jay (4): Hopeless, Alakaslam, Jonny, LoneMeow Koshi (1): cakeman And you decided to unvote LoneMeow and start a push on Koshi. At the very last minute. I realize that at the time you didn't know what the vote count was and you didn't realize that voting Koshi would get you lynched. However, the point is that even with Koshi not having many votes on him and mixed sentiments across the board about his alignment, you had no problem switching to your most preferred scum target. This game, there's still about 20 hours to the lynch and you're already like 'nope nothing I can do to convince people Koshi is scum guess I'll just vote slam'. I really want to hear some good analysis because right now all I see are excuses. | ||
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On February 08 2014 11:14 Oatsmaster wrote: Hmm johnny says he is gonna post a case on balla. I wanna see how that goea but currently I could lynch Hes like really angry. Angry people are scummy people Did you see Jonny's play last game? lol. People are suspicious of him right now because he's not being angry when he should be. | ||
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Gogo people. | ||
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On February 08 2014 12:09 Hopeless1der wrote: It certainly makes jayb look better. Scummy working his way back to null for alak due to general lurkiness. And what about the context of JayB's case on Alak? The fact that he's pushing this lynch instead of providing more analysis on Koshi who he also still finds scummy? | ||
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On February 08 2014 02:24 jaybrundage wrote: Yea Balla is leaning town for me atm. I still think Koshi could be scum but everyone shitting on my push on him, means that the push wasn't not as good as I thought it was. So I won't be pushing him now and will try to get reads on other people. On February 08 2014 11:06 jaybrundage wrote: A few reasons. If people who i think are town don't think Koshi is scum then I can be mistaken and instead of tunneling him I should be trying to create other reads. If there is no support for a lynch then going after it relentlessly and tunneling on him is just detrimental to town. Consider this a request for you to "continue tunneling' Koshi. LoneMeow and Jonny are unsure of Koshi's alignment, and LoneMeow is townie to you. What things about Koshi's play recently make you think he's scummy? | ||
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On February 08 2014 12:16 jaybrundage wrote: Suki I gave my reasoning for not going after koshi.I also mentioned jonny before there is no new content from him. I think he could be scum tho. Oats, Lonemeow I think there more likely to be town. I think your a bit scummy. Your early posting with your dismissal of my case just because it was early. You trolling me with things that were simply untrue. You recent posting has been a better. So right now you think Slam, Koshiand me are the most scummy (and in that order) and you'd be willing to lynch any three of us? No one else is looking scummy to you? | ||
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On February 08 2014 12:21 Alakaslam wrote: Oh slam, I still love you. That said get to work! *cracks whip* | ||
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JayB said Koshi is scum but I don't plan on writing a case on him. How is this pro-town at all? | ||
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If you still think this is coming from a town Jay please speak up and tell me my case on him isn't any good. | ||
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There will be sprinkles. | ||
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On February 08 2014 12:49 Aquanim wrote: My current opinion on Jay is "don't like his play so far, but he is at least posting cases and appears to give a damn about the game. My read on him will improve with time, so I'd prefer to lynch Jonny who's done f-all and does not appear to give a damn about finding scum." Do you have a single, unified case on Jay? If so I couldn't find it. Please do tell where he is posting cases. | ||
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But since you asked so nicely, here are the relevant posts: + Show Spoiler + On February 08 2014 03:29 suki wrote: Jay's play in previous games: + Show Spoiler + Scum in Roulette Mini Mafia On June 04 2013 09:13 jaybrundage wrote: So im down with the whole claim role thing. But if the scum can also get the roles it doesnt really lead us to any lynches. But i guess the point of it would be transparency and all that jazz. I hate playing with people i never played with before I cant rely on previous experiences Also if anyone has not played with me I would suggest reading a previous game or two I play rather..... unorthodox (I occasionally be hardcore lynchbait D:)Kinda all over the place but I always feel like day 1 is just typing shit until someone says something questionable. Then the Rage-arguments take place :D self-consciousness. On June 05 2013 05:55 jaybrundage wrote: Maybe you missed the post where i said to go look at previous games. I said that im often lynch bait because its true. As town i often get mislynched. I prefer for people to know this and take at look at my play rather then straight up die as town for my play. Me poking someone with a stick is not pressure. The fact that you have that in your case shows how weak it is. Besides the fact that your just piggy backing of someone elses post. The fact that you think a joke post is the scummiest post as of yet just shows your lack of a real case. #Vote S0lstice self-consciousness. On June 05 2013 10:59 jaybrundage wrote: Well how would you start day 1. I stuggle day one because there is no content to go off of. And the whole purpose is to create content. excuses. Scum in British Empire Mini Mafia II On March 05 2013 19:31 jaybrundage wrote: Meh, don't like that we already have an outed blue already. But whatever, no reason crying over spilled claims. Not sure what I think about the early votes. Its prolly people fooling around OR SCUM TRYING TO GET AN EASY LYNCH o.o Buuuuut prolly za jokes. Also scum Yamato did this last game. And he got away with it D: YOU KNOW THIS AND STILL VOTE ME QQ joking attitude with mislynch comment. On March 06 2013 11:01 jaybrundage wrote: I saw this coming. People would comment on how i wanted to lynch Dandel but now my votes on thrawn. I wanted to vote dandel because of his complete lack of content in his posts. He (finally) started putting in at least some effort with going for Vivax. Which is a plus. He isn't a townie read my any means. But I completly forgot about thrawn. When you mentioned him I remembered Lamp and his meta case on Thrawn as scum super lurking. That is exactly the case here. Once thrawn found out his role pm he legit stopped posting. He lurked super hard and attributed it to life reasons. Ill be damned if thrawn doesnt come back and give the same excuse. Also if you recall Hapa I was going after DP and then you had a read on him so i backed down eventually I didn't want to do a 180 then because i was worried about how it would look. But if you have a town read on Vivax I respect that and wouldn't want to go against your reads regardless. On March 06 2013 11:25 jaybrundage wrote: I wasn't confident in my reads. I wanted to act like i was to try to put more pressure on them (dandel, vivax) Never have been big on questioning my scum reads tbh. Thats more your forte. My reckoning is if someone is scum they wont give any satisfactory answers anyway. But ill try it out. As for going with the flow. Your right. I prefer to go with people's reads I have a town read on. I have done this to death palmar and even you at points in games. I hate day 1 for a reason. There is no concrete information to go on. self-consciousness. Town in Nomination Mafia On February 08 2013 13:52 jaybrundage wrote: In regards to the bold isnt that what everyone does? In all seriousness there isn't much to say about JX. JX was lurking hard and didn't contribute anything till some pressure was on him and even then he didn't produce much. I was having second thoughts about him per palmars post but no one wanted to lynch prplhz. I dont care if i bring your comments on Oats back to the limelight. If I think something you did was questionable I will call it out. You stated something I didn't agree with so I said as much. And are you fucking kidding me with this consolidation bit. Ofc we have to consolidate as town. If we don't it gives mafia more leeway to swing the vote. Also you your self were asking people to consolidate on JX so how is what you say even make sense. Also why do you ask if im a bad townie. Why not just ask if people think I'm scum? Notice how he doesn't really defend himself, he just shoots back a question. On February 08 2013 14:35 jaybrundage wrote: I fail to see anything in your response that indicates im scum. The mislynch occurred cause JX was lurking hard till pressure was applied to him. And he didn't respond in a townie way. I once heard a good town player say. That for the day one lynch the only thing you need to do as town is to make sure you aren't the jackass that gets lynched. You usually have to play badly for it to happen. Also yes I prefered JX to die over Palmar wasn't that clear. Your issue with consolidation isn't a real issue. It was the end of the day and I asked people to consolidate. Again, he doesn't excuse his play he re-iterates his reasoning. On February 08 2013 23:46 jaybrundage wrote: To give you some quick context. I am the best mislynch na. I used to get lynched about 90 percent of my games, though I have improved a bit cause people were getting used to my meta aka being scummy as fuck as town. I usually lurk hard as scum and get spammy as town. But this game I don't wanna get overly spammy as it makes me look scummy lol. Questions? He is best mislynch NA. But it's not in the joking manner as before. His tone is more serious. Town in Normal Mini Mafia IV On January 30 2013 09:16 jaybrundage wrote: This is your pressure vote are you fucking srs? Or do you actually think im scum Questions when he's pressure voted rather than defensive or instant counter attack. On January 30 2013 10:24 jaybrundage wrote: What the hell are you talking about. God forbid I have more then one scum read. Sharrant and JX are both scummy. Yes JX voted thrawn early but it doesn't make all his scummy actions irrelevant. Also Iamp also had JX as a scummy read. I have Lamp as a town read and i give his opinion some weight in my decisions. That is primarily why I started rereading filters and such to see if i could see what he said about Sharrant and JX. Note the confident attitude. Town (Fake doctor? XD) in our previous Shadowed Mini Mafia On February 04 2014 12:24 jaybrundage wrote: Oh I answered all those questions in my Google spreadsheet already. I ll post what I got on you guys so far. Its not all up to date on the recent things that happened. 1. Balla24 Town I like him so far very aggressive and making discussion and seems like a real player in this game 2. Sidesprang Bleh One post so far I knew he would be a candidate for a policy lynch and hes confirming that. 3. Alakaslam Posted 2 things with no content so far 4. cakemanofdoom no content There is quite a bit of things in the game atm and he chooses to comment on suki saying thats nice. Pretty lackluster choice 5. LoneMeow slightly scummy His first post sucked I don't like it at all and might be down to vote him just based on that. He followed up with basic policy stuff. I dont like him so far 6. Jaybrundage The towniest town that ever towned 7. Hopeless1der Meh we argued a bit over nothing hasn't posted any content tho so much is going on in the thread where did he go? 8. Oatsmaster Hasn't posted yet. I think at the start of the game is pretty late for him tho 9. JonnyLaw Pretty waffly at the start. He is posting but he doesn't seem to have firm convictions. He didn't liike Balla early but he has played with baller 3-2 times with him being scum so his suspicion is warrented. He hasn't produced much content tho he just seems like going with the flow 10. Suki scummy I don't like suki so far she just seems like she has no real motivation behind her posting. Her poke at jonnys waffleing was ok but then when balla inquired about it she said she never said she implied hes scum or anything LIke wtf? Why poke at someone but have no real reason behind it. It would seem that she didn't understand him but then she didn't say that she got very defensive. Said she didn't see anything with LM posting slight defending I dont like her atm 11. Koshi Posted some generic lets post alot then disappeared No waffling here, no excuses on 'I can't get reads easy in D1' On February 05 2014 02:15 jaybrundage wrote: I understood them in the sense that you think im scummy and don't like some of my posts. However why you thought they were scummy is a mystery to me. I would love to hear your thinking. I still adhere to the fact that if you can't see someone's username and see who is posting what. That your reads are going to be terrible. I hope you can read the game knowing who is posting what. Confidence. No heavy defense, no excuses. On February 05 2014 12:13 jaybrundage wrote: I have no need to defend oats. Oats can do that himself. I liked the case in general. Why should I nitpick when I have no need too. Can I not agree with a case? I liked the case. Its that simple. I agree with the case. I dont see how you don't get it. Yes I changed my read on suki. I'm trying to figure out the game. She made a good case so more likely to be town. More confidence. Jay's play this game: + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2014 07:36 jaybrundage wrote: It might be a rough game. I tryharded the shit out of last game. And jonny wanted to lynch me cause I was "acting" like town. I guess the first thing would be too not give as much advice this game. 1. Because I said it last game. 2. Because now I can just policy lynch lurkers cause they have been warned :D I want to just say scum hunt more. But its not easy too early day 1. Maybe more pressure less advice for the early day. excuses. On February 07 2014 07:51 jaybrundage wrote: I feel off. What a non committal post. After you say your vote is real. You make a terrible comment like that. I think what you mean to say. Is that you think I'm scum. BUT your scum so you know that not to be true and your waffling like crazy. Because even when you say the vote is real. Your very next line shows you have no conviction about it. Koshi is scum. I caught one :D Immediate counter attack. Something tells me town Jay would be more likely to say "Can you explain why I feel off?" and prod with questions. In other words, his townie confidence is missing. On February 07 2014 08:55 jaybrundage wrote: Suki. Being aggressive does not =! equal scum. I am scum hunting. Why are you voting me. Instead of reading up on my case and seeing if it has merit. You asked me how I was going to change my approach this game. I said it was going to try to do more pressuring and scum hunting. I am doing that. Should I not want to lynch scum this game. Your question doesn't make sense. It is not that they are in the first four people in the game that I have targeted them. I have targeted balla and Koshi because I find them the most likely to be scum. I think Jonny on the other hand is hella townie atm. Self consciousness. Defensive, trying to provide reasons for the way he is playing. On February 07 2014 11:44 jaybrundage wrote: I can't win with this town. If I give advice and try to make well thought out posts. Then I'm giving advice and I'm not scum hunting enough. If I actively try to scum hunt and push things I think are scummy. Then I'm scummy for unknown reasons. Pretty frustrating. This is new. I don't think I've seen frustration in his previous games so I don't have a meta read on what this means. The thing that comes to mind is if he was confident townie he probably wouldn't care that people are calling him scummy and would question them right back in their faces. Joking tone that's present in his scum games when he mentions he's #1 mislynch. On February 07 2014 11:54 jaybrundage wrote: Balla talk to me why do you think my push on Koshi is scummy. I think while it isn't the most amazing case. It is after all an early day 1 case. And I think alot of things I said are completely true. Self-conscious. This sort of thing doesn't show up in his town games. + Show Spoiler + just look at this quote from the previous game: On February 05 2014 11:49 jaybrundage wrote: Yes I thought suki was scummy before. Her thing about not calling Jonny scum but interesting or what ever word she used did bother me. She just seemed to have no point to your posts. However with her case on Oats it showed that she wasn't just trying to appear to be posting. She actually was analyzing the game and looking for scum. So my read turned on her. Is it possible she's scum that noticed she was getting heat and decided to post a case? Sure possible. But I think the most likely possibility at this point is town. I don't remember Oats too well in my previous games. He was never someone I really suspected. He can be hard to draw a bead on sometimes. Not a huge poster mostly short clip comments. I even had to go back and look briefly at the LoL PYP game. I think the case made good points I hadn't noticed before. Oats was not on my lynch list before Suki posted her case. And she made a good enough case for me to consider lynching him. Also I felt the reason to make my own case because I want to contribute to the town. I didn't plan to just sheep Suki's read and just say yea I like all this Ill join. Because I wanted to post my own analysis I got's me an ego you know. Also by posting other scummy people we can choose as a town who we want to go for based on the information we have. Notice how his reasons for finding me scummy were weak, however he doesn't say 'Oh yeah my reasons for thinking suki was scummy weren't that great.' he simply states what he thought. Ie. Confidence. On February 07 2014 13:50 jaybrundage wrote: Does what I said make sense to you from a town perspective now? Why does he care that other people think he's town? Again, self-conscious, lack of confidence. On February 08 2014 02:24 jaybrundage wrote: Yea Balla is leaning town for me atm. I still think Koshi could be scum but everyone shitting on my push on him, means that the push wasn't not as good as I thought it was. So I won't be pushing him now and will try to get reads on other people. excuses. Huh. I think I've just convinced myself Jay is pretty damn scummy. Also I noticed how in the town examples above, Jay has no problem asking people why they think he's scum, or confirming that they their read on him is that he's scum. In this game he'd rather defend himself than confirm someone's scum read or call them out on it. On February 08 2014 07:00 suki wrote: Yeah you mentioned this: And I noticed it in my meta analysis too.. Frustration is something that I haven't seen from Jay before. But like.. This just.. He's just giving excuses. + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2014 13:11 jaybrundage wrote: Ok so this makes alot more sense. You were not saying my initial response to Koshi's vote on my post was scummy. You think my response to him validating the seriousness of his vote was scummy. Ok so let me go thru my reasoning. So Koshi comes back after I dismiss his post and responds with that his vote is "very real" However where he should put a reason about why his vote is real. He instead just says "you feel off." So this is in hindsight perhaps where I may have misread Koshi's intention with that post. It might have been a joke post and he wasn't being serious. But what I thought was that Koshi actually thought I was scum. He said the vote was real... Twice. So I assumed that he was serious and voting me with the intention that he thought I was scum. At this point I believe that I was making up my case on why Koshi's first post not being excited was scummy. So I was already thinking that Koshi was mafia. This just firmed that in my mind. I had brushed off his vote on me as not being serious. So when he does say its serious he gives me the reason why. The reason is "You feel off" That was it. This is a very noncommittal answer and I think it reeks of scum. I had no reason to ask for why he voted me cause he already provided it it was "You feel off." So instead of asking him I dissected why I thought this post was scummy. Does my thinking make sense? And even when I did ask Koshi why he felt i was off. He never expanded on it. Also you confused me originally with what you said in your post If you are town, your reaction to these "fake votes" would be completely different. But you were not talking about my reaction to the fake votes. You were talking about my reaction to Koshi's explanation that his vote was real. and this.. so much backtracking. Like... uughh. In Shadowed Mafia he was top 2 lynch target and he was nothing like this. On February 08 2014 07:09 suki wrote: By the way in my first Mafia game ever, I rolled scum and got lynched Day 1. One of the things that happened was I made some contradiction that people were all calling me out on, and I thought really hard about a way to explain it so it wasn't contradictory. So then I posted my defense, and people were like yeah I guess that sounds reasonable but we're going to lynch you anyways because you're the most scummy. Afterwards, people were telling me that my defense almost had them convinced and that's where I think people were telling me that they thought I would be a good mafia player. Sooo in short, JayB being able to explain away his crappy early activity is not a townie point. The fact that he wastes so much effort defending himself and explaining him is a point against him, as per my meta analysis. On February 08 2014 11:58 suki wrote: The only scum hunting I see from you is a refusal to let go of a bad tunnel on Koshi and a policy lynch on a lurker. What are your thoughts on Jonny? What are your thoughts on Oats and LoneMeow? Who else do you find scummy? Why aren't you pushing a Koshi lynch because 'he's not on the menu'? As I recall, last game people were mostly on LoneMeow right at the deadline, and a few people hopped off LM and onto you. The vote count was: LoneMeow (4): Koshi, suki, Balla, jay Jay (4): Hopeless, Alakaslam, Jonny, LoneMeow Koshi (1): cakeman And you decided to unvote LoneMeow and start a push on Koshi. At the very last minute. I realize that at the time you didn't know what the vote count was and you didn't realize that voting Koshi would get you lynched. However, the point is that even with Koshi not having many votes on him and mixed sentiments across the board about his alignment, you had no problem switching to your most preferred scum target. This game, there's still about 20 hours to the lynch and you're already like 'nope nothing I can do to convince people Koshi is scum guess I'll just vote slam'. I really want to hear some good analysis because right now all I see are excuses. On February 08 2014 12:24 suki wrote: Consider this a request for you to "continue tunneling' Koshi. LoneMeow and Jonny are unsure of Koshi's alignment, and LoneMeow is townie to you. What things about Koshi's play recently make you think he's scummy? On February 08 2014 12:27 suki wrote: So right now you think Slam, Koshiand me are the most scummy (and in that order) and you'd be willing to lynch any three of us? No one else is looking scummy to you? On February 08 2014 12:35 jaybrundage wrote: I have no plans to tunnel Koshi you can do it your self if you want. I think Slam Koshi and you are all scummy yes. I think jonny could be scum and I'm null on sidesprang. But its very possible he could be scum. Process of elimination baby | ||
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If you are town Jay I deeply apologize. However I think the only thing that will convince me of that is seeing you bleed green. All my points against you aside, when I ask you for a scum read I expect a scum read. Not some flaky excuse that you don't want to do it. I don't see any analysis going on here. Just excuses and OMGUS. | ||
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He thinks I'm scummy but he won't elaborate or try to get people to see why I'm scummy. He has one case on slam, and everyone else that he found scummy he's waiting on them to contribute more. He had no problem writing a giant case on Koshi with red letters 2 hours into the game using pre-game quotes, but 31 pages into the game his next greatest contribution is a 2 paragraph post on Slam. | ||
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I feel bad for pushing on Jay this much but honestly I was expecting a different response. I'll be back later. I would like everyone to post their thoughts on JayB because if he gets lynched tomorrow it's going to look very stupid to not have taken a stance on him. | ||
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I've given you lots of chances. I've asked you for reads. What am I supposed to think now? JayB said BUT if you twist my words again, I WILL get my scumbuddies to shoot you in the night Go on. Try to get me lynched. I dare you. | ||
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Um.. If you read through the entire page 31 there's a post where I quote all my relevant posts, and there's more analysis and a summary as well at the bottom of page 31. Basically page 31 pretty much has all my information on why I'm pushing this Jay lynch. | ||
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I think the points brought up by Balla are quite valid. I found his lack of comment on Jay strange (even before I really started tunneling Jay). He promised a big post on Balla and has not delivered which is really fishy. Points in his favour are that his playstyle hasn't changed dramatically (still one liners, still mostly angry), and a good player once told me that he's never seen a scum player post in the thread when they're drunk. I think that his activity the next time he comes into the thread is going to make or break my read on him. If somehow Jay became off-limits for the lynch and I had to choose right now based on my general impressions, I'd vote for Jonny. | ||
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Notice that I do bring up when he mentions he's #1 mislynch in his town game. Notice the similarity in the 'joking' manner in which he refers to #1 mislynch in his scum games. I have no intention of misrepresenting Jay through my meta case. | ||
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On February 08 2014 12:24 suki wrote: Consider this a request for you to "continue tunneling' Koshi. LoneMeow and Jonny are unsure of Koshi's alignment, and LoneMeow is townie to you. What things about Koshi's play recently make you think he's scummy? I ask you nicely to provide your reads on Koshi and you refuse. I genuinely feel bad for the whole 'Go on try to get my lynched' post though. That was out of line. I apologize. Still, all I'm asking for is analysis and contribution and you continue to refuse. | ||
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Above the quote it should have said, "Regarding your first quote JayB, you should consider the context of why I asked you to 'tunnel Koshi'" | ||
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If it's between Jonny and Jay, then I'll push Jay. Jonny's case on Koshi based on the early gameis so bad. His continued use of the previous game to provide examples is stupid. However if I give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that he was working and he's short on time, then it's easier to accept that his cases are bad. At least he's pushing cases, giving reads freely, being upfront. Contrast it with Jay's behavior. Yes, I am tunneling Jay. I'm just so damn sure of him. I don't buy his blue 'claim' at all (true-blue townie? what kind of stupid claim is that). How is it that Jay's been here so much more than Jonny and yet he's the one that has less scum-hunting activity? Remember how we were like when Koshi came into this game and claimed he was going to be super active, that if he didn't hold up to it then he's an easy lynch? Jay came into this game with an over the top IM GONNA HUNT SCUM attitude and he HAS NOT DELIVERED. Fuck. I am willing to give Jonny a second chance. His cases that he made are bad but that's no reason to fault him, at least he made cases, posted opinions and pushed the person he thought was scummy. What is Jay doing? Jonny came in and had no problems making a shitty case on Koshi just now yet I ask Jay why he thinks Koshi is scum and he dodges hard and later says 'Koshi is null'. Jay can't even stick to his own guns. Look at the votes in the thread. EVERYONE is on Jonny. Everyone. But there's so much hesitation with Jay. Face it, Jonny's the easy (mis)lynch target and not because he's been playing scummy, but because he has a few tweaks to his game that are suspicious (such as not flaming people for excuses, not commenting on Jay), because he's been away and because his cases are horrible. BUT he is OBJECTIVELY (yes Oats, Objectively) doing more pro-town things than Jay. Arrghghghghgh. | ||
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but I'm willing to give Jonny a second chance whereas I don't feel the same way about Jay. | ||
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On February 09 2014 03:42 Balla24 wrote: The thing about the blue claim is that... it's a terrible claim, unfortunately. But you're right, suki not taking into account that it might be true and thus the implications of lynching jayb is bad. Honestly, when I first read the "claim", my thought that it was an attempt to breadcrumb being blue so that he could use it later on when he actually claims something. There was no reason to claim blue at all for him at that point, and if you're breadcrumbing then you should be bread-crumbing your role IMO. Plus breadcrumbs should be impossible to find without explanation. First off, I don't see it as a claim. What are you going to do if Jay comes back later and says 'It wasn't a claim, it was a figure of speech and I didn't realize that it was a soft blue claim when I posted it'? Also like I said, I'm certain that Jay is scum, and I'm willing to give Jonny a second chance. Blue claims aren't a free get out of jail ticket. Everyone just brushes over all my posts about Jay's contradictions with a magic 'oh he kinda blue claimed' sweeper when the evidence is right there laid out in front of you. Just like you guys don't see Jay as completely scummy as I do, I don't see Jonny as completely scummy the way you do. What if Jonny claimed blue right now? Would you be like omg we can't lynch him today? If your answer is you'd still lynch him then you see where I'm coming from. | ||
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Would that be a blue claim? Like.. come on. If he really was blue and he wanted to breadcrumb he would have picked a better way than say 'I'm a true-blue townie'. That's just weak. | ||
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I'm crossing my fingers that Jonny will flip red and we can all hug each other and throw a party. | ||
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However we do know that last game Jay kept trying to push his lynches and only claimed at the very last second to make sure he wasn't mislynched. This game he kind of weak claims and he's doing nothing to push his scum targets. | ||
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I get focusing on your most scummy target... So whatever. I guess I'll just wait until after the lynch and see what everyone says then when Jonny is out of the picture. | ||
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1. Because you don't consider the blue claim hard. I like that you have a followup and have actually thought about it though, but that should have been important in this post. 2. Because you're calling Jonny more townie for stuff that you called Jay scummy for earlier. 3. I don't agree at all with the fact that Jonny is "pushing cases" and "sharing reads freely". Why do you think jonny is doing this better than jay? I think they are both doing a pretty terrible job of both. 4. Jonny and jay have had multiple chances to redeem themselves. Jonny has failed MUCH harder than jay has. MUCH MUCH MUCH harder. 1. because I didn't consider it a blue claim. 2. Jonny at least has his absence as a reason for bad cases. Yes absence is a horrible reason and a scum point to boot, but Jay has been here this entire time and has contributed less with just as bad cases. 3. Both of them are doing a terrible job. It is my opinion that Jonny has spent more time pushing cases and sharing reads than Jay has. Jay has not been pushing cases on his scum picks and does not share reads freely. 4. Both of them have failed hard. You were pressuring Jonny and so maybe that's why he failed much harder to you. I was pressuring Jay and it is my opinion that Jay has failed much much harder. | ||
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Remember how we were like when Koshi came into this game and claimed he was going to be super active, that if he didn't hold up to it then he's an easy lynch? Jay came into this game with an over the top IM GONNA HUNT SCUM attitude and he HAS NOT DELIVERED. Explain to me the townie mindset for Jay's non-deliverance of his super scum hunting attitude at the beginning of the game. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + Jonny starts the thread with a more light-hearted attitude than usual, maybe in line with Balla and my joking. + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2014 07:06 JonnyLaw wrote: Bring the hate. It will only make me stronger. On February 07 2014 07:21 JonnyLaw wrote: Sigh...Jayb man. You called balla super townie for entering the thread with a vote last game. Are you sheeping your "town playstyles" again? On February 07 2014 07:33 JonnyLaw wrote: I laughed. For real though, Koshi if you're town are you going to try and make real cases and hunt scum this game? Because last game you made shit cases and said I'm town. If you make shit cases and say I'm town again there's only one logical conclusion... I feel like we're in a strong position this game. We all got decent reads on everyone playing except aqua. Day1 is such a shit hole. Need small talk to get the game moving but I hate chitter chatter. These are all joke-y light hearted posts. On February 07 2014 08:08 JonnyLaw wrote: I hate this fucking post by the way. What is this supposed to accomplish? Standard JL aggression. On February 07 2014 08:17 JonnyLaw wrote: I could call you scum. Pre-Game How do you assume Balla's alignment? Here are more excuses from Koshi. What happened to a kid with a lollipop? JL hating on excuses. Koshi also brings up how he hates the 'kid with a lollipop' point multiple times. Yes it is a misinterpretation. No, I don't think he should be hanged for such a silly mistake. On February 07 2014 08:54 JonnyLaw wrote: That's the most important part of your post. Anyone who calls jay scum must be scum. Easy defense. Jay looks scummy. So does Koshi. Honestly you've done nothing to show otherwise either. Decent analysis. Sharing of reads. After this he goes to dinner with his girlfriend. Right now Balla has posted this against Jonny: He also completely dismissed my first post without even giving it a a real thought, similar to what jaybrundage did, and has been spewing irrelevant things like commentary about post-game which is completely off-topic unless he wants to make a point about this game with it. Also the aqua stuff is pretty irrelevant, and actually anti-town. What's the point of talking about Aqua's meta if he hasn't even posted anything yet? Sure I guess it's interesting to see if anybody has played with him, but you can 1. do that research yourself. 2. wait to see if anybody brings any meta arguments and information to the table themselves. So at this point in the game, Jonny's being called out for: 1. Dismissing Balla's opening post. Jonny also hated on Koshi's opening post last game and wanted to stop discussing it asap. 2. Commentary about the previous game, which is off-topic. 3. asking about Aqua's meta. Balla calls it anti-town but I'd rate it more neutral. Koshi also at this point called Jonny out for leaving right when JayB started getting attention. - - - - actually before Jonny's next post Balla posts a case on Jonny and says he's weary of Jonny: + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2014 13:39 Balla24 wrote: Alright, moving on. What do you guys think about JonnyLaw? I'm very weary on him. The post he quotes here is completely irrelevant to my probability mafia post. This was literally the first time I was not being trolly in this game. I know the things I was referring to were trolly and joky, but I wanted to start the game at that point, and they were interesting enough initial thoughts to question their motives behind it. Why does he think i'm forcing anything and distracting anything. That was literally the start of the first discussion of the game yet he doesn't even really read it. He even moves into quoting one of my more trolly posts afterwards ("I declare myself king") and calls it funny, even though it was way more distracting than anything else I did. Moving on: There were plenty moments where jonny talks about something irrelevant and not helpful to the game with the facade that it is "getting the game started" and "not talking about policy". This post here could have literally happened in post-game and pre-game, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. There is absolutely NO relevance to jay's alignment in this game. In fact, all it does is help jay if he's scum. There's more moments like this, specifically the Aqua stuff. Here he says that he finds Jay's excuse-making and self-doubt "weary" but doesn't think it makes him scum (or at least that's what I gather from him asking "does that make him scum?" after literally saying "it's scummy sure", which is really weird in itself). This is in direct contrast to what I know of town jonny. The guy LOVES to pick at this stuff. + Show Spoiler [Quotes from jonny town games] + On January 20 2014 11:40 JonnyLaw wrote: Ve's full of shit. He was this active last game. Making excuses for his posting now. ##vote visceral eyes On January 06 2014 15:21 JonnyLaw wrote: You're not saying anything with authority. You're hesitant and making excuses throughout that post. What are your opinions so far? I don't care how other people feel about you or if it's your first game. That doesn't matter. On January 06 2014 15:30 JonnyLaw wrote: I'll be on tomorrow at a more reasonable time. At this point we have three players who've posted nothing. Fine, we have 30+ hours till day ends. I hate this post and generally everything in Asuna's filter. Excuses, bandwagoning and self doubt in one line. I'm down to lynch Asuna or OWB at this point. Dragoon and Chyz read more as if they're trying but misguided. + Show Spoiler [PYP: LoL, where Jonny is Mafia] + On December 03 2013 07:24 JonnyLaw wrote: Rean - Votes yorick, claims vt and roleplays liftlift. Could be scum lurking. Austin talks about champ abilities and not wanting town to role claim. I'm not certain role claiming is the best policy either. Maybe I'm missing something but these two are lurking harder than gtrs. Mocsta is making a lot of excuses. Busy, in mylo etc... I generally agree with Roffles and Mocsta about gtrs. + Show Spoiler + On December 02 2013 15:08 Roffles wrote: I think gtrsrs just doesn't give a fuck anymore because he didn't get his champ of choice and is stuck as a vanilla townie. To me it all makes sense cause I know he probably just picked a champ he likes playing in the actual game (Khazix) and seemed cool in terms of skills here (he announced he was doing this too), but wasn't able to grab him and now just starts screwing around cause he's got nothing better to do. MZ wants gtrs lynched and then spends the rest of his posts defending himself. If this is a popular sentiment and he was a proponent of it early why is he getting so much flak? Are mocsta and MZ arguing for some personal reasons? Why did you want me to read these filters. The first two say nothing and the second two are just arguing. Rayn thinks MZ's contradicting himself but the first couple days I thought Rayn posted okay for the most part. I'm more confused about them at this point than anything. tldr Rean and Austin are useless right now because they're doing nothing. Mocsta's making excuses without them being asked. Could be scummy. MZ's spending all his time on defense. This is the opposite of how soniv approached aggression directed his way. That's why I liked soniv for town earlier. Then this. This is just blatantly not reading the thread. I was asked by jaybrundage to make a "town case" on koshi, so I did so. I even quoted what I was responding to. Yet he tells me I'M not reading the thread. This ticks me off ^_^. Balla your points are as follows: 1. Jonny is taking offense to your joke posts, although he calls your first serious post a joke and he also laughs at your later crowning of yourself as king. You don't really explain how this is scummy but I assume it's more like a point that he's inconsistent and not reading properly. 2. Jonny is not contributing anything pro-town and is just wasting time. 3. He finds Jay's excuse-making and self-doubt "weary" but doesn't think it makes him scum. Whereas, we know Jonny loves to pick on excuse-making. This is one of Balla's points that I really liked. 4. He's blatantly not reading the thread. This doesn't seem like a scummy point, just like something frustrating. - - - - Jonny comes back and he's drunk. He responds to the above case from Balla at Aqua's request (mistakingly thinking I requested it hence why he's talking to suki). On February 07 2014 16:15 JonnyLaw wrote: Why do you even want me to look at that Suki? Balla says I think his king post was funny. Am I supposed to take that seriously? I refuse to do so. I talk to Jay about the last game. Uhhh....I felt bad for tunneling a townie so hard? I want jay to play the game and you guys start out right where I fucking left off. If he's scum (which I get to in my next post) we can lynch him. And Balla's mad that I don't think he's paying attention and I refuse to call him "king." Yeah...what is there to say about that "case" on me. Finishing the jay post. be back with you in a second. He ignores the points where Balla says Jonny was wasting time talking about fluff. He explains he felt bad in the previous game for tunneling Jay so hard. Basically he dismisses Balla's case which I think is reasonable. On February 07 2014 16:33 JonnyLaw wrote: LOL. Hi aqua. Sorry assumed the chain kept going from Suki. I'm getting very weary from the long night out. The second post is the scummiest thing Jay's said all day. Actually it's scummy as hell rereading it. Under what town mindset are you ready to lynch one person and vig another two hours into the game? I wanna go look at balla before I crash. He posts saying Jay is scummy. Asks a very potent question (bolded) which I actually really like. On February 07 2014 17:39 JonnyLaw wrote: hi Koshi. I'll give you balla case soon hopefully. I was rereading it and my dog just shit diarrhea all over my carpet in my room. Pics if you want. I hate this game. So drink and tired and now dog shit everywhere. Anyway, i'll be with you soon. I have a few hours before I need to work. He promises a case on Balla but due to IRL doesn't deliver and leaves everyone hanging. - - - - Aqua posts a case on Jonny: On February 07 2014 23:36 Aquanim wrote: Jonny tops the list at the moment. I feel like this response by Jonny: misinterpreted some of Balla's points and completely ignored the strongest one. I also don't think Jonny's putting a significant amount of effort into drawing information out of the thread. I can't see any questions he's asked anyone, or any serious pressure. may as well do this now instead of waiting till tomorrow ##Vote: JonnyLaw I really want to see this case on Balla he claims to have. idk what to make of jayB now, gonna need to see more from him to make any solid read. Similar for sidesprang. The important point here is that he brings up the fact that Jonny hasn't asked any questions or put any serious pressure on anyone. Aqua says Jonny didn't answer Balla's case (the two sections previous to this one), I think Balla's case wasn't really pointing out why Jonny was scummy and Jonny's 'defense' makes decent sense. I mean, what is someone supposed to do when you accuse him of fluff? defend himself? He went and posted a case and promised another one. On February 08 2014 03:30 LoneMeow wrote: Hello. Had major emergency at work today so I have only done a quick read of the thread so far. So far I'd call JonnyLaw the scummiest of the bunch. Just compare his posting to the previous game and his newbies. One liners, off topic, no hostility towards who he thinks is scum. Proper read commencing now, if there's anything you want me to comment on or pay extra attention to let me know. On February 08 2014 05:19 LoneMeow wrote: Okay, so: JonnyLaw Not playing to his usual aggressive, abrasive town meta (and he was called very town for it in the previous game, so there's no reason to change). Posting a lot of one liners and not volunteering his opinion. Verdict: scummy LoneMeow calls Jonny the scummiest of the bunch. The logic is kinda flawed. He was somewhat hostile in the beginning and even in his other games he posts mostly one liners. He hasn't volunteered his opinion on anyone really. This point is true. However, I feel like it's not because Jonny was here in thread not volunteering his opinion but that Jonny was away from the thread and that's why it didn't happen. - - - - Koshi once again points out Jonny leaving right when Jay was put under the spotlight: On February 08 2014 05:31 Koshi wrote: The way you catched me previous game. I disappeared when it was lynch and wasn't discussing anything. The same happened with Jonny early game. Imagine if Jonny is town and jayB is scum, do you think Jonny would suddenly disappear at the same time hell breaks lose and not offer his opinion? Then when I call him out on him he says that he is there and trying to make sense of the clusterfuck. Which is extremely scummy, and then the next thing he posts is a misinterpretation about something that hapenned PRE-GAME. (the lollypop business). That's so strange coming from a guy who is pretty straightforward and dares to gives his opinion. When they are both scum it could have been because Jonny was seeing the clusterfuck that JayB was pulling himself into and just didn't know what to do. But I can see scum Jonny seeing townies fight and maybe be startled a bit on what to say, which side to pick. But town Jonny not knowing what to say when scum jayB is parading in the thread. Mehhhh. Again, if Jonny really was away, it's just inconvenient timing. If Jonny was here then yes it's suspicious. However Jonny did leave the thread at that point and say he was going out so it's just whether or not you believe him. - - - - Balla puts another case forward on Jonny: On February 08 2014 14:37 Balla24 wrote: ... Moving on, Jonnylaw. I feel bad here because of his drunk posting last night and how I said I wanted to ignore it while waiting for Jonny to come back and tell me if they were serious or not. But it's been a while now... his activity level is making me very wary(did I use the right word?) on top of all the other stuff I've already posted about. So actually, mid-writing this I decide I don't really have anything more to say about Jonny. I'd appreciate if he would try again to refute the points I brought up against him last night, because all drunk jonny did was mis-interpret what I was saying and ignore other stuff then call me scum for my filter which has still not been followed up on. Actually he also did this while he was sober too: It's actually giving me flashbacks to Normal Mini Mafia 1 vibes where I was scum and I was called scum early by multiple people because of my activity, and unfortunately I wasn't able to re-establish myself in the thread like I would have liked. I'm not sure if that's what's happening here obviously until Jonny gives me some sense that this is not what's happening. Another thing that makes me feel worse about him is that when we are both town, we tend to work very well together, regardless of how clashy our personalities are. We're not working well together. I don't know who he thinks is scum, all I know is he read my filter and thought it smelled bad. Maybe that will change. Finally.... ##vote Jonnylaw Basically, activity level sucks. Not really anything else to say. Comparing Jonny's inactivity to when Balla was scum and he wasn't able to re-establish himself in the thread. (Interesting point, why are you using this point for Jonny and not for Jay? Especially since Jay at the start said he was totes going to scum hunt hard) . Meta of how Jonny and Balla aren't working together even though they usually do despite their personalities clashing. - - - - - At this point Jonny comes back: On February 08 2014 17:27 JonnyLaw wrote: Hi guys. We had a new implementation explode as I was supposed to leave. Eight hours later I'm coming to make a case. Fielding questions. Otherwise reading filters. Things exploded at work. He's back. On February 08 2014 17:46 JonnyLaw wrote: koshi is our scum #1 in this game. Sheeping Balla off the start. I pointed out that Jay did this last game and it bought Jay a lot of town points in balla's mind. Excuses. Excuses. Fucking Excuses. Why can no one call him scum and where is the posting like a madman? I hate this entire series of posts. Anyone who's not joking around is scum? Get the fuck outta here. Uhh where's the scum hunting? And another post threatening the power of town koshi. Unleash it already. This reminds Koshi of his "off feelings' about town jayb last game? I don't understand. Seriously this is getting worse and worse for me. I'll do the rest tomorrow. ##vote Koshi I'm around for a few minutes to chat. Bad case on Koshi which is kinda just a reiteration of his original case. He doesn't add anything new and doesn't analyze Koshi's recent activity. On February 08 2014 17:49 JonnyLaw wrote: Uhh I called you scum? that's about it. No but I'm still not convinced. I don't have any clear town votes yet. koshi, slam and lm for scum. koshi for content and lm slam for lurking. rest neutral. i'm bad at finding town. i can find scum though. On February 08 2014 17:52 Aquanim wrote: @Jonny: Can you explain to me why you think LoneMeow is scum over jayB and sidesprang? On February 08 2014 17:57 JonnyLaw wrote: LM's lurking. Nothing else. Fuck, Jayb's the same reason I almost got lynched in nmmi. I tunnel a townie to death. Balla was scum and I thought Jay was last game. I don't want people to quit the game. I'm weak I guess. He straight up says that he thinks LM is scum for lurking. He doesn't pretty it up or make excuses. Jonny again seems hesitant to go after Jay because he tunneled Jay in the previous game. On February 08 2014 18:02 JonnyLaw wrote: I read the thread then reread the filters that stook out to me. It was suki, jayb and koshi. He admits he hasn't read the thread before stating his reads. He's very open about this. I honestly see this as a point in his favour. He has nothing to hide as town. On February 08 2014 18:10 JonnyLaw wrote: Anyway, I'm going to get a beer and drink it. Then I'm going to sleep and I'll be around well before lynch time tomorrow. He leaves the thread after answering a number of Aqua's questions. Whether these questions were answered satisfactorily or not is a different question, but his attitude was open and frank. On February 08 2014 18:14 JonnyLaw wrote: no. i don't think jay's scum at this point. his gameplay changes from this game to the last one make sense to me. his read of balla's starting post makes sense to me. calling out scum that early in the game makes sense to me as town. he changed the things that i said make him scum. koshi's play doesn't make sense to me. He says he doesn't think Jay is scum and provides reasons. He says Koshi's play doesn't make sense. I think he's forgotten that he had promised a write up on Balla. The scum explanation is he's trying to ignore it. The town explanation is he was drunk and doesn't remember. - - - - Aqua posts a case on Jonny On February 08 2014 21:54 Aquanim wrote: Why JonnyLaw is scum, and the best lynch today 1) He is not interested in talking with other people to find their alignments. Jonny did ask a few questions but they seemed pretty pointless to me: + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2014 07:21 JonnyLaw wrote: Sigh...Jayb man. You called balla super townie for entering the thread with a vote last game. Are you sheeping your "town playstyles" again? On February 07 2014 07:25 JonnyLaw wrote: I appreciate the effort you put into that post man. It's funny but you're trying to force it into being more distracting than Koshi's post last game. What the fuck? On February 07 2014 07:44 JonnyLaw wrote: I was talking about tunneling jayb. Apparently that's off topic. How about aqua. Have you played with him before? How do you feel about random votes being tossed around? et cetera. Importantly I don't think Jonny has asked anybody for their opinions/cases/whatever on anybody else, or to clarify a point he didn't understand. He has asked pointless questions and mostly made pointless observations. To take an example of something which would not be a pointless question, look at his town posts from the original game: + Show Spoiler + On February 04 2014 11:54 JonnyLaw wrote: Koshi's euro cakeman he's asleep i'd guess. What did you specifically dislike about Jayb's post Suki? I see reason to dislike it but I'm interested in your opinion. On February 04 2014 12:14 JonnyLaw wrote: Jayb I do have one question. Why did you pick SS out of everyone who hasn't done much yet? Looking at the list there are a number of other candidates. Why him in particular? On February 05 2014 10:55 JonnyLaw wrote: Jay, what did you think of Suki's case on oats? I understand you like that someone finally put hard content in the game but what's your take on her views? 2) He only made a case on somebody else when forced to by the pressure from several votes, not before. Furthermore, Jonny's case on Koshi really feels to me like he just opened Koshi's filter and tried to spin each post in turn so that it looked scummy, rather than drawing a reasoned conclusion from Koshi's filter as a whole. I don't feel like a townie would seriously believe that case. I'm not 100% certain that Koshi is town myself but that case doesn't convince me one bit. 3) Jonny's position on LoneMeow makes no sense. He claims to have a scumread on LoneMeow: even though he's barely read LM's posts: Words fail me. Throwing Alak and LM on his scumreads along with Koshi was really, really lazy, and reeks of somebody not taking scumhunting seriously. 4) There's also this: If y'all aren't voting for JonnyLaw when I wake up tomorrow morning, you'd better have a damn good reason. 1. He's not interested in finding out people's alignments. True. 2) He only made a case on somebody else when forced to by the pressure from several votes, not before. ehh.. this is debatable. I sensed no hesitation to provide reads. 3) Jonny's position on LoneMeow makes no sense. Jonny's position is LM is scum for lurking and he didn't read LM's posts. This is careless but it's not contradictory, because LM doesn't have a very large filter. 4) There's also this: On February 07 2014 23:36 Aquanim wrote: I feel like this response by Jonny: misinterpreted some of Balla's points and completely ignored the strongest one. If y'all aren't voting for JonnyLaw when I wake up tomorrow morning, you'd better have a damn good reason. The last point I've already addressed. Um. Point 1 can be seen as scummy. The other points not so valid. - - - - Koshi's follow up: On February 08 2014 21:59 Koshi wrote: The biggest thing is still his disappearing act early game, not commenting on anything, and coming back to the thread with a "case" on me that was a misinterpretation of pregame posts. The no case on Balla. No more comments about it. The rush to get out of the thread at the end of the latest case. And then just his filter. I don't know if it is hilarious because I know I am town but really. There is nothing. I like this follow up. -- -- -- -- - - -- And now everyone is putting on their party hats and saying we caught scum. Suki's thoughts Points against Jonny: 1. He has one stupid case against Koshi and a few barely explained reads. 2. He isn't questioning people or trying to find out alignments. 3. He said he would write a case against Balla and didn't follow up. 4. He's barely been in the thread at all, and is almost lurking really. 5. Rushes to get out of the thread at the end of his latest case. Points for Jonny: 1. If you believe that he had a shitfest at work and believe he went out with his girlfriend then his absence from the thread, lack of reading through the thread and lack of depth in his reads can be explained. 2. He posted while he was drunk (which I guess most people will ignore) 3. If you believe he hasn't had much time, then the fact that he isn't questioning people makes sense too. When he is in the thread he uses his time to post his reads and also answer questions briefly. His rushing out of the thread also makes sense. like, if it's a long day and work was shit then maybe he just wants to get in bed. He isn't making excuses. He provides his opinions on people freely even if the reasons themselves are horrible and not researched. He's consistent with his view on Jay which is he doesn't want to read him due to tunneling him badly in the previous game. UNLIKE Jay, I can see townie motivation for the way Jonny plays if I assume that Jonny has been really short on time. YES, not questioning people and having shit cases is definitely against Jonny's regular play style. HOWEVER, I don't think he would just play scum like this if he actually did have time to play. In other words, unlike Jay who I am having a hard time finding townie motivation for, Jonny's actions and activity can be explained. Final Conclusion: I want to see more from Jonny. He is basically like a lurker at this point with bad cases. Maybe I'm giving him too much slack and to be honest his play is bad enough that I still would vote for him as my second pick, but I am NOT confident that he HAS to be scum. | ||
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I think a short-on-time scum Jonny can play a game exactly like this. But I also think a short-on-time town Jonny can also play a game like this. | ||
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Not much. I also have a null read on you at the moment Haven't looked into you in depth yet. | ||
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I .. don't think if both of them were scum they would plan it like that. Jay is scum to me. I think Jonny's behaviour could be explained with town reasoning. Everybody is on Jonny and the reasoning is just not that strong. Lots of people have sheeped onto Jonny with barely any explanation. Therefore I am worried about this lynch. | ||
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I'm just stating my feelings here, and still wanting a lynch on Jay before Jonny. Hoping people will consider my points. | ||
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On February 09 2014 06:13 Koshi wrote: What worries me is that nobody is here. Which is a great indicator of a townlynch. Worst case scenario is that this is a townlynch and Suki/Oats/Hopeless are scum. What is the point of this post? | ||
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It's also in direct contrast to how he claimed last game. | ||
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On February 09 2014 06:21 Aquanim wrote: Look, the thing with analysing Jay's contributions to this game is that you have to forget about the question "Is this a good contribution?" and ask the question "Is this a contribution he believes?". His case on Koshi at the start was, I agree, almost completely without merit in terms of persuading me to vote for Koshi. Indeed, it's so unconvincing that I do have serious doubts about his alignment. Same for his reasons for voting Alakaslam. But the fact remains that he did vote for people, and made an argument why other people should vote for them too. And that's a contribution. The real question I'm asking myself here is "Is it possible Jay is a townie who in fact believes the cases he's made and is honestly trying to push lynches on who he believes is scum?". To which my answer is "maybe". And I'm a fair bit more confident than "maybe" about Jonny. Jay's vote is on me right now. How do you explain that. | ||
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On February 09 2014 06:22 Balla24 wrote: I'm sorry but it was pretty clearly intended to be a claim. He ignored when I asked about it and then says this. If that's not saying: I'm going to claim if I even get close to being lynched. Then I don't know what it is. "i'm not getting lynched" is just coming off to me as a strained attempt to sound confident. | ||
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On February 09 2014 06:24 Aquanim wrote: The real question I'm asking myself here is "Is it possible Jay is a townie who in fact believes the cases he's made and is honestly trying to push lynches on who he believes is scum?". To which my answer is "maybe". The answer is no. He said Koshi was scum, refused to provide a read. Then later came back and said Koshi is null. He voted slam as basically a policy lynch. He voted me as an OMGUS. He's not pushing lynches and getting reads from him is like pulling teeth. | ||
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It's still a knee-jerk reaction. Slam is questioning one post and jay is making it sound like it's an unreasonable thing for a townie to do which it isn't. | ||
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What? he's not saying you're confirmed town, he's saying you're going to be sad when he flips green. How is this a slip at all? | ||
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On February 09 2014 06:55 Koshi wrote: I would love to stab the king and run off with you my Queen. But sadly it is looking like I am going to stab the Queen and run off with the King. I will be fine because he is looking sexy this entire game. Are you calling me scummy? | ||
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On February 09 2014 06:55 Aquanim wrote: The question is "why would Koshi be sad when Jonny flips town, if Koshi is scum like Jonny has been claiming?" That's... actually a good point. Huh. | ||
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Why? | ||
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On February 06 2014 08:31 suki wrote: Here's the plan. Everybody that I make cases on for being scum D1, just ignore me and lynch the people who I think are probably town. Easy win. Everything's going according to plan -_-; | ||
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I'm not scum and the way I have been playing is not scummy either so if you have something to say, say it properly. | ||
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There's no reason to start playing paranoid town lets-lynch-the-most-active-person-in-the-game at this point. Like seriously. I can't believe you guys are even considering this. | ||
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I want to lynch you because of slam's activity, but I'm totally willing to put that aside if you start contributing and sharing your reads. | ||
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But yes, I will give him a break and let him shine his true colours. | ||
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Also Koshi did you want me to reply to your case against me? | ||
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His activity this game has been: 1. active start of the game 2. drunk posting 3. crappy read on koshi and a little bit of chat with aqua 4. quick pop in just before lynch. After his drunk posting was when a lot of people were forming cases on Jonny. At this point I wanted to see more from Jonny. I did comment on a few points which were brought up that I agreed on but was willing to wait. When he posted his crappy read on Koshi I was already convinced on my case on Jay. Between Jay and Jonny I wanted to push Jay more, hence I didn't push Jonny. | ||
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Not much I can say on the allegations against me so I'm just going to provide analysis and if you really want to lynch me then afterwards I will hopefully have contributed enough to lead town to a win. I guess if I were to say one thing as defense, it's that I'm town, and not all the meta arguments brought against me are true, and some that are true don't apply because I guess I'm playing differently this game, ie. my tunnel on Jay as opposed to flopping around like a fish out of water. But there's no point in me arguing my own meta. My pick for the day 2 lynch at the moment: Slam/Coag Slam's activity this game is very different from his town game last game. He came in late, citing work things, but his activity didn't pick up from there. This is in direct contrast when he was coming in the thread on his phone posting garbage but still trying to say things. I think this point is actually very important. He's more serious in tone. There's very little joking, none of the light hearted attitude that permeated last game: + Show Spoiler + Quotes from early game from the previous game: On February 03 2014 05:14 Alakaslam wrote: I know what I know, I say what I said and I know what I know! On February 04 2014 10:54 Alakaslam wrote: YOU BET AON I CANT GUARANTEE QUALITEE BUT I CANNAE AVOID TEH SPAM WITHOUT ÜUBERLURK On February 05 2014 02:38 Alakaslam wrote: pffft. you all crappin on my styles ##unvote ##Vote: Oatsmaster His flip may provide sufficient information in and of itself. If he is town, we take his posting to this point more seriously. Otherwise, oh happy day! He is not particularly townie so there should be no problem with this. He doesn't vote people as freely, and doesn't call people out for being scummy. Previous Game as town: + Show Spoiler + On February 05 2014 02:10 Alakaslam wrote: I understand this sentiment but I think you actually did understand my posts in a sense. I was UNABLE to edit them. That is what was so bad, I could barely get it to register a tap in the words and had to use talk text. That is why I stopped. Anything that didn't make sense I will try to clarify after I catch up and probably after work. it is still morning. jaybrundage you are rapidly convincing me you are scum. On February 05 2014 02:34 Alakaslam wrote: He just isn't vocalizing his reasons. Koshi is scummy at first because of his crazy entry to the thread. He is further scummy because he abandons the policy as some sort of joke as soon as he gets fire for it. Oats is Oats, have you been in many games with him? I don't try to read him yet Balla24 finally so town ist awesome. Jaybrundage not near as scummy as I thought he was last night. But I am devolving into list posting stuff you all either already know or won't care about. I hope we aren't around looking for some sort of scum tell. I was and I was getting all pissy because I was finding them everywhere. What we need to do is find the unknown, by conventional or unconventional means. Vote: LoneMeow jaybrundage why are you scummy? I don't care if you know your alignment is town, why are you scummy? What have you done in this game that is scummy? I want you to look over stuff in your own filter and point it out. if you feel like it, answer the same question Sidesprang. Or not. On February 05 2014 02:38 Alakaslam wrote: pffft. you all crappin on my styles ##unvote ##Vote: Oatsmaster His flip may provide sufficient information in and of itself. If he is town, we take his posting to this point more seriously. Otherwise, oh happy day! He is not particularly townie so there should be no problem with this. This Game: + Show Spoiler + On February 08 2014 10:16 Alakaslam wrote: Thing about lurker lynches. You can advocate them but if you don't follow through your motives should be questioned... Has Jaybrundage voted for me yet? ... Who is he voting? If anyone has been lurking I have been, he should be pushing me according to this policy. More as I feel the desire to comment on it. On February 08 2014 13:35 Alakaslam wrote: Lol Suki That coloring. Don't color shit in the first case. Guess what? You find that Jay apparently calls himself mislynch bait as town and as scum. You kept highlighting that in his scum games but not his towngame. Just that first case has me suspicious of YOU. What is going on with that kind of fabrication? People will read the highlights better at times but I have some paranoia that gives me memory of connection and an Armenian-reading-a-contract type of thouroughness if I see stuff like that.(coloration) However could have been a slip as all ppl make mistakes. And I haven't read the whole thing, so will finish before drawing conclusions On February 08 2014 14:19 Alakaslam wrote: But this sucks too jay ez to say null Of course hard to form good read too so whatever On February 08 2014 18:52 Alakaslam wrote: You pointed something out in there, jay did not push me or lone. Pushes me to ##Vote: jaybrundage for now, if I find a better candidate I will switch. Going to go measure some temps and will return. There's just a marked decline in interest in scumhunting and calling people out for scummy things. Also this was in the previous spoiler but let me bring something up here: On February 08 2014 18:52 Alakaslam wrote: You pointed something out in there, jay did not push me or lone. Pushes me to ##Vote: jaybrundage for now, if I find a better candidate I will switch. Going to go measure some temps and will return. Slam has always just thrown his vote on who he thinks is scummy. In the spoiler above from the previous game, he voted LoneMeow and his very next post he voted Oatsmaster with only the text 'You all crappin' on my styles'. This self-consciousness in how he changes his vote is very scummy to me. There is also the point that Slam basically ignored JonnyLaw. Now Coag: On February 09 2014 04:22 Coagulation wrote: I just threw a placeholder vote down while i catch up on thread so i dont get stuck with whatever slam voted cause apparently thats what was gonna happen. Coag comes in and votes JonnyLaw without explanation two and a half hours before the lynch. He says it's a placeholder but doesn't say anything else in the thread until after the lynch. On February 09 2014 11:35 Coagulation wrote: ok so im finishing catching up in thread... and seems like you guys have already decided to lynch me based on slams actions so umm thats not good considering how shit at town I am Im not gonna have a snowballs chance in hell of unshitting alakaslams play. Just wanted to get that out there. dont expect me to work any miracles but I will try to keep thread updated with my reads as much as I can as I follow the game. Is it just me or is he self-convinced that slam's play is shit and scummy? People have been bringing up slam as a good lynch candidate but there were other names being thrown around as well (oats, jay, me). Yet Oats seems resigned from the outset. His call for the vigi to shoot him indicates a lack of desire to play. I think scum (at least from what I've seen here) are more likely to be discouraged from rolling scum and not want to put in the effort. Basically his whole attitude thus far is downtrodden. A scum would know the allegations against slam would be true, a town would know they're false and at least be willing to try to make up for the crappy play, right? In short, both slam and coag's play thus far fit into a scum mindset. - - - Thoughts on other people coming up. | ||
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In Newbie Mafia LI, theDragoon was by far the most popular lynch candidate. Everybody was voting theDragoon. sidesprang started questioning Dragoon heavily, trying to find his motivations: + Show Spoiler + On January 07 2014 15:33 sidesprang wrote: @theDragoon Who would you vote for now and why ? Also, why did you change your mind and wanted to defend yourself afterall ? On January 07 2014 16:09 sidesprang wrote: So from your defence post I take it that your biggest scumread is suki, why did you not change your vote to him? And are you planning on doing more to get yourself not lynched ? Also why is suki scum if you flip town? His reason: On January 07 2014 16:32 sidesprang wrote: The fact that it is a landslide in voting atm is why im trying to poke theDragoon to talk some more. I think it's all going to easy atm, tho voting aside and before he voted for himself he was my biggest scumread. But hopefully he will contribute some more since he have some new found interesting in defending himself. I'm here now, so if you wanna lynch me why don't you poke me for some reads or something. Kinda like the plan was with lurkers in the start of the day... Remember earlier this game I stated I was concerned about Jonny being scum because literally everybody was on him? Sidesprang, when he commented and voted on JonnyLaw, didn't have strong feelings that Jonny was scum, and yet he only asks about Balla and doesn't seem concerned that everyone is bandwagoning on Jonny. On February 09 2014 02:41 sidesprang wrote: Jonny: Ok he left off by saying he had a case coming on Balla, and that Ballas filter stank. But when he comes back he has a case on Koshi. And imo it sucks, he points to a lot of different things, but I dont see why Koshi is scum from any of them. He claims to have scumreads on Koshi, slam and LM. Where the fuck did Balla go? I think Aquas case on him is really good, especially his conversation with the LM read. It really don't make any sense. @Jonny What is your stance on Balla now? What in his filter stank, is it still stinking ? If not why? ##Vote JonnyLaw His reads this game are all non-commital: + Show Spoiler + On February 09 2014 02:41 sidesprang wrote: Ok lets see... LM: While reading his filter I just dont see anything that stand out in a scummy way, not neccesarily town either. But not worth looking at this late in the cycle. Alakaslam: I buy that he has been busy with work and whatnot. As I don't think scum!slam would lurk in any way I dont see a reason for lying about it. That being said I dont think his enterance is very good. Starts by complaining about how Balla / Suki trolled early game, which has been pointed out is something he is very capable aswell. And it was obviously something that was prewritten before Balla got the roles. Why bring that shit up again, its a null tell. His points are just fluff. He then says he is going to try some filters, but looks like he only read JayB, maybe the easiest one to pick on at the time. [suki note: notice for all these words he avoids coming to any conclusions on slam] @Slam Did you read up on the rest of the players? Do you got any other reads? What are your thoughts on Jonny? Hopeless: Overall I dont find much scummy or town in his filter. But I agree I don't like why he is giving oats a townread. As oats is able to swap around his vote like that as scum and town it should be a null tell. And as hopeless has been around a lot I would think he would know that. @Hopeless Is there anything other than the voteswapping and how he did it that give you a towntell on oats? Does your towntell diminish if you read some of his scumgames and see he is able to do that as scum aswell? Jonny: Ok he left off by saying he had a case coming on Balla, and that Ballas filter stank. But when he comes back he has a case on Koshi. And imo it sucks, he points to a lot of different things, but I dont see why Koshi is scum from any of them. He claims to have scumreads on Koshi, slam and LM. Where the fuck did Balla go? I think Aquas case on him is really good, especially his conversation with the LM read. It really don't make any sense. @Jonny What is your stance on Balla now? What in his filter stank, is it still stinking ? If not why? ##Vote JonnyLaw On February 09 2014 22:14 sidesprang wrote: Ok, so from the lynch. Coag and Suki both are looking bad, and have been talked about a lot. Suki as I said is hard for me, she completly fooled me for the most part in Newbie mafia L1, and i'm starting to get scared she is doing it again. I had her as null / leaning town earlier. But her hard attack on Jay looks way worse now that Jonny flipped scum. I mean most of us thought Jonny was good D1 lynch, and the fact that Jay blueclaimed but she stilled thought he was a better lynch I find a off. Yes the claim was wierd, but he did the same shit last game. The Slam / Coag team looks bad mostly for his lack of mentioning of Jonny. Which I wish we could have questioned Slam about. Sadly unless Coag for some reason decides to actually play mafia I doubt we will get much usefull information from him. Might be the best vig shot if we got one imo. Two others that really did not mention Jonny either is Hopeless and Oats, and I think we should look at them for tomorrow aswell. Hopeless on Jonny: Only post before vote where jonny is mentioned: The vote: Oats on Jonny: The Vote: I don't really know hopeless playstyle, and I mentioned earlier that Oats can pull this off as either allignment.And now that Jonny flipped scum I'm getting extra worried. Sadly their play this game is mostly short post with little content, so they are hard to read, atleast for me. For now I would think both scum lies in theese four. Anyone have input on oats / hopeless? Don't feel they have been discussed much yet. Hmm... Definitely not so sure about sidesprang. It might just be because we don't have any full scum games to refer to, but I'm having a hard time meta reading him. His lack of firm scum reads is convenient play if he's scum, but I noticed looking through his town games that he usually plays it safe and is cautious about who and what he calls scummy. The lack of concern that Jonny was an easy target that everyone was getting at is only circumstantial and not hard evidence in my opinion, but something that I noticed. Verdict: Sidesprang is a little scummy to me right now. | ||
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I think Aqua's constant interactions with Jonny also make him look town. Oats hard to read but he still feels like last game and I liked his pressure on me in Day 1. It felt very townie. Hopeless hard to read, but gut read says he's town. I like his light attitude and his activity. I think LoneMeow has been playing well and I liked his gut read of Hopeless and the way he defended it when people pressured him. I like that he is pushing hard on slam/coag so we'll see what happens after Day 2. I think I've done enough with Jay and am not going to touch him for Day 2 to give him a break. So I guess the summary is, people that I think are scummy are Coag and Sidesprang. Jay I'm giving a break. Everyone else I like their Day 1 play and probably will wait until Day 3 to look at them again unless something happens during Day 2. | ||
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pretty sure I made it clear | ||
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I'd like to see your thoughts on other scummy people Hopeless. | ||
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Coag went on Jonny at the last minute with no explanation. The no explanation is scummy. It's hard to fault him on being last to vote Jonny because he replaced in late. Sidesprang scum also is easy to explain as he jumped on Jonny when there was already a strong wagon forming. I think it's just WIFOM trying to figure out Jay keeping his vote on me. @Jay : My read on you is that I'm not sure. Confirmation bias says you're less likely to be scum because Jonny flipped scum. However that's WIFOM. I want to see how you play out Day 2 and then draw conclusions off of that. | ||
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That line of thought from Hopeless that both me AND Jay are scum doesn't make sense if you assume my scum play is any good at all. | ||
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If you're town, please don't be so discouraged that you just do nothing for the rest of the day. Remember, you win with all of us, so any insight you can give us on other players will help towards that goal. | ||
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The simplest answer is you're townie and your defense is true. I'm looking forward to your reads. | ||
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I see that Oats has posted a bunch. I want to hear from Sidesprang. Specifically these questions: 1. Who is your number one lynch at the moment for Day 2 and why? 2. Who is scummy to you? 3. Comments on the Jonny lynch and the events leading up to it. I'll comment on Oats in the morning when I'm not tired and I really hope to see something from Sidesprang. | ||
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On February 10 2014 16:13 jaybrundage wrote: Man if Suki is scum I feel bad. Morning peeps. Jay if you're town I feel bad lol. I really want to ask you some questions post game cuz I'm curious about your thought process amidst my giant tunnel. On February 10 2014 17:17 sidesprang wrote: I feel usualy town when having two scumreads are happy lynching either atleast when its such a landslide in votes. The fact that you are no dropping him completly for the day while having gone that hard for him I don't understand. I'm dropping Jay for a complete day because I have this nagging feeling that he could be town, considering the events of the previous day and Jonny's flip. I see no harm in letting Jay breathe for one day when we have people like coag and you (sidesprang) who are not contributing and who will have just as small a filter at the end of Day 2. Jay is contributing and if he's mafia it's easier to catch him late game. On February 10 2014 16:04 LoneMeow wrote: Right, so suki's thought process about JonnyLaw is just plain scummy. Note that at some points she claims JonnyLaw is her second lynch choice, yet she doesn't seem interested in pressuring him at all or trying to figure out his alignment. Then there's the "second chance" thing. You don't give second chances to players you think are scum. I find your stance somewhat easier to see coming from a badly tunneled town. suki, your stance on JonnyLaw before the lynch is really vague. Did you, or did you not, think he was scum? Super long answer + Show Spoiler + My viewpoint on Jonny when he drunk posted was that he was town. This is because a good player once told me that scum usually don't post while drunk unless they're confident in their scum play. Since Jonny has not played a lot of scum I didn't think he would be confident in his scum play. Hence I wanted to give him more chances with this sort of.. how to say.. meta assumption? (I have since yelled at that player and told him it's not true lol). When Jonny posted his case on Koshi I was already convinced Jay was scum. Because Jay and Jonny both pushed bad cases against Koshi as their only major case, I was thinking it was unlikely that both of them were scum (which I stated and which you yelled at me for I believe, LM). I thought the points against Jonny were good but not damning. When I did my full review on Jonny, I was looking for motivations and really felt that Jonny's play could be explained from a townie point of view. Whereas I was convinced that Jay's play could not. The short answer to all this is, I thought Jonny could be scum, however I was certain that Jay was scum, and I felt it was unlikely that both of them were scum together. The fact that everybody was voting Jonny made me uneasy. Also I thought Jonny would play a better scum game, so I believed the excuses that he had a crazy day at work. There were a lot of reasons to think Jonny was playing a poor town game, but it felt to me that the major pieces of evidence against Jonny were his lack of activity and lack of pressure (and like I said, could be explained by having no time). Giving Jonny a 'second chance' in the form of letting him play for Day 2 by lynching my major scumread first would let me form a stronger opinion and see if his poor play and excuses continued. As an aside, prior to these two games I was firmly on the 'no policy lynch' side because I thought, a good scum will be active and try to push bad players. I mean if there's ever a game where I end up being super low content super low activity, people are probably going to point this out and say suki must be scum for it. But in my case, it probably would be the truth. These past two games have made me realize that even good town players.. can play really crappy scum games. Kind of hard for me to swallow. Now Jonny's flipped red and Jay is alive. Jay is the one who now has the second chance, the chance to contribute and prove himself. The short: I thought Jonny could be scum but wasn't sure. I felt Day 2 Jonny could prove himself by reviving himself and contributing the good reads that I was used to, or hang himself by playing the same crappy game. I was sure that Jay was scum, no one was listening, and I was trying my best to convince people. | ||
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In TL Mafia LXIV, coag replaced in mid game as town: On January 12 2014 09:00 Coagulation wrote: wtf. I havnt even got a chance to post yet and you guys have already written me off and shit on me. fuck u guys then. find someone else to shit on. This isn't exactly the same scenario because mkfuba07, who Coag replaced this game, was not under suspicion when Coag entered the game .However the attitude between that game and this game is completely different. I noticed a general trend that Coag's scum game filters are consistently (but not always) smaller than his town games (which are consistently long). I see this as him putting less effort in when he's scum. other than that though his game is pretty hard to read whether he's scum or town. blah blah I think Coag is a good lynch target if he continues to do nothing. | ||
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On February 10 2014 19:13 sidesprang wrote: I put Oats over Coag because I think its more likely that he will flip scum. Both Coag and Slam have a pretty unreadable play for me atleast. The only really scummy point is that Slam did not talk about Jonny at all even tho he was one of the two leading scum lynches when he entered the thread. But hey neither did Oats or Hopeless, they just did a cheap vote on him. Of course it dont make you scum, but it's clear scumpoints in my book atleast. I totally would not mind a Coag lynch either, because I think he will be an issue for the rest of the game. Untill he is dead we will always wonder, he wont do shit to clear himself. But he will do this as either allignment which is why I prefer to lynch oats. Just check Titanic II, there he gets replaced in, does jack shit, gets modkilled (from getting tl.net ban). I think this is a pretty weak post by sidesprang. Coag also did a cheap vote on Jonny at the very very end with no explanation. One thing that I just thought of is sidesprang's behaviour in Newbie Mafia LI: On January 07 2014 10:44 sidesprang wrote: Been away most of the day sry. Skimming through the thread now. Came to this. Voting for yourself make it an autovote for me. If you are town please fight for your life, we have everything to gain. If town we will hopefully see it, if scum we will hopefully be more sure you are scum after your defence. ##Vote theDragoon I'll be catching up for a bit, if anyone have any questions feel free to ask I'll be around for a bit. But gonna use some time catching up as a lot have been posted. important part bolded. Sidesprang auto-voted theDragoon when he self-destructed in thread and voted himself. Basically, sidesprang's attitude was, if you're town, you should fight for your life, and if you don't fight or you're scum then you should die. The situation isn't completely analogous but Coag has basically stated his intention to not play the game by telling the vigi to shoot him multiple times. Sidesprang however does not jump on this or pressure Coag to play more he just kind of keeps his distance. In NMM:LI , Even though sidesprang autovoted theDragoon, he then followed up by asking theDragoon a lot of questions to get more thoughts out of Dragoon before Dragoon was lynched, in the case that it was a mislynch. There is none of that activity here. I'm happy with either lynch today, however I want to lynch Coag. Coag is scummy, and he also is not contributing anything and seems to not have any plans to contribute. His attitude reads disheartened scum. Sidesprang is still contributing and so will have more things to read from him in Day 3, Coag probably not. | ||
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On February 10 2014 13:01 Oatsmaster wrote: sidesprang who my vote is on. LM also pretty scummy methinks. Can you provide some reasons as to why you think LoneMeow is scummy? | ||
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On February 10 2014 16:13 LoneMeow wrote: Oatsmaster or sidesprang. I thought sidesprang looked somewhat towny earlier but I'm far less sure now. Can you please provide reasons for why Oats and sidesprang are higher on your lynch list compared to others? Out of the two who looks more scummy to you? | ||
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On February 10 2014 14:28 jaybrundage wrote: Let's talk I want you to start posting we can't get a read of you if you lurk. Why do you think I'm scum? What do you think of Oats, Suki, Hopeless, Sidesprang. I have nothing to read you with. Please fix this. On February 10 2014 15:26 jaybrundage wrote: Hei lonemeow. Lets chat. What do you think of Oats, Hopeless1der and Sidesprang? What is your opinion of me and Suki right now? Is balla too townie to be townie. Should we kill him for the lulz + Show Spoiler + :D Hi Jay, I notice you're asking about four players specifically. Can you please let me know why these four (I have an idea just want to let you answer it)? On February 10 2014 14:18 jaybrundage wrote: So guis we should totes lynch Sidesprang. I looked over Oat's filter briefly leaning town atm. It's not based on anything particularly just feels. It's hard to get a good read on Oats as his post's are mostly one liners. So I shall join you Oats on Sidesprang. @Sidesprang. I am gonna policy lynch your ass. There also is a decent chance your scum. So yea. Give me some reason to keep you alive. You voted sidesprang as a 'policy lynch'. First off, why was it a policy lynch? Second, what are your thoughts on him right now? What are your own thoughts on Oats, Hopeless and LoneMeow? | ||
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Here are my thoughts: II Titanic: He puts people on his watchlist for not having a desire to scum hunt, being inconsistent, not saying things he likes. + Show Spoiler + On December 11 2013 21:57 sidesprang wrote: Ok so I've been trying to read filters to find some scum. A few people caught my interest. VayneAuthority: Seems to have very little content, and frankly not even a desire to hunt scum at all. I got the impression that he was an experienced mafia player and would thus expect more of him. He is basically tunnelvisioning on the easiest target and dont really provide much outside of that. He said he was memory banking stuff and would come back later day 1. I hope he will provide something else than just slam before the day is over. ##Vote VayneAuthority Alakaslam: A lot have been said about him allready, he stated before the game that he would play like this, so I will give him that. The question is just can we actually understand what he is trying to tell us. I kinda feel there is something there and if we crack the code we might be able to understand him, maybe it will ger easier if we get a few flips. But however if he is scum it will be very dangerous cause he can just send us on a wild goosechase and still just act like hes doing now and we will be non the wiser. I feel his playstyle forces us to kill him if we dont wanna deal with him, or use a cop check on him if we wanna keep him alive. Unless someone feels they can actually get something out of him ? JarJarDrinks : I dont like this guy atm, might just be because he went after me. But in his filter he says he finds zeroing in on details scummy, and thats what he's been doing half his post. And his case against me with the "anti-town" thing I just find very very weak. I kinda get the feeling he's trying to pick some low hanging fruit with the way he's saying "hey look at this". Purpletrator: Not really said anything I liked, fillered a lot first half and the fucked off. Said he would be back with more, hopefully that is soon. People I like as town atm is Holy for providing a lot of analysis and in general bringing up good points, if he by some odd chance are mafia we should be able to nail him later days because he got loads of info out there. I also like kush and Xata, I in general agree with a lot of what they are saying and they are playing very pro town imo. I know some people wanted to lynch me, I felt I explained myself allready. So if you want me to elaborate you need to specify on what. Random fluff: My name is Sidesprang, not Sidespring. And in Norway we are in general not bad in english, and I hope my posts dont reek bad english On December 14 2013 22:41 sidesprang wrote: My reasons for voting on Vayne D1: He does nothing, tunnelvisions on slam, the easiest safest target to go on in the start. Just a policy lynch, if it goes through it dont tell us anything about Vayne regardless of how it flips. N1: Tells us day 2 is when the real game will start. D2: Does nothing despite the real game having started, goes on the easiest safest target to go on again LSB. Dont provide any insight. Is more disruptive than helpfull to the town. That is why I wanna lynch Vayne. He is like an Day 1 Alakaslam just without speaking in code. The fact that If we lynch him we can learn from his flip, is just a bonus. If you read my filter and put the pieces togheter you could have seen this. But I guess I also could have put this case togheter when making the vote. Did not really take me that long His self defense is straightforward and non-apologetic.+ Show Spoiler + On December 10 2013 20:07 sidesprang wrote: Okay I see I'm off to a rocky start. You might say I'm bandwagoning because I did not have any insight that I came up with myself, but it was the only read I had. Would you rather I stay silent? And I'm not willing to push for a lynch on Cora and Xatalos, I thought I made it clear I did in no way find them scummy enough to vote on yet. I dont like to fling my vote around without justification, and if I did so it would only make me look scummy. And for the second post I dont really see how you can say im bandwagoning, I was asked a question and I answered, I had no intentions of going after Xatalos at all. And now that grack and rayn basically said it was normal play for it. I will just assume that he inteded to create some discussion. He comments on the popular targets of the day. This example is a day 2 post: + Show Spoiler + On December 14 2013 22:04 sidesprang wrote: I see LSB is a very popular target ATM, tbh I'm a bit worried about lynching him, mainly for two reasons. 1. His play so far, has pretty much just been tunneling one guy at the time, trying to bandwagon me for the most part. The problem is, if he is town or mafia its just bad play in general. And its hard to see the difference between bad town and bad mafia imo. 2. And pretty much whatever he flips I dont really see us learning much, which I don't like. I could get with this lynch D1, but a misslynch at this point where we gain little information will be dangerous. Artanis is another popular target, but I dont really see him very scummy. Just by reading his filter my gut just say's towny. He was also one of the few that defended Cora, and he also got some heat for doing so. His defence felt honest and towny, and I'm not sure a mafia would do that. Coag is a guy I think we should all take a look at and pressure into giving some oppinions. His filter ATM is just a bunch of one liners with hardly any meaning. He jumps on LSB without really explaining anything, or giving any personal insight. Pandain the guy he replaced did not really do anything either to look towny. Anyone have some history with this guy they can share ? In this game... His reasons for voting people in the beginning are largely meta: + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2014 18:44 sidesprang wrote: k, dont wanna give out town / nullreads tho cause I don't see the town benefit in doing so. Currently I got three people on my watchlist. JayB: This guy was an easy townread for me last game. ATM I'm not getting that at all, he made loads of bad posts so far, which don't make you scum. But I'm not getting the same easy read as last game which makes me wanting to see more contributions from him. Jonny: A lot of the same as JayB. Had this guy as an easy townread in my Newbie game. Not getting the same vibe atm. He got a Balla case coming up tho, so let's see where that goes. Oats: He sheeped onto JayB, and seems certain he is scum. Without adding his own thoughts. He was also quick to jump on Suki when aqua mentioned her, which I found wierd seeing how certain he acted against JayB. Later on, his reasons for voting people seem to be based solely on Jonny flipping: + Show Spoiler + On February 09 2014 22:14 sidesprang wrote: Ok, so from the lynch. Coag and Suki both are looking bad, and have been talked about a lot. Suki as I said is hard for me, she completly fooled me for the most part in Newbie mafia L1, and i'm starting to get scared she is doing it again. I had her as null / leaning town earlier. But her hard attack on Jay looks way worse now that Jonny flipped scum. I mean most of us thought Jonny was good D1 lynch, and the fact that Jay blueclaimed but she stilled thought he was a better lynch I find a off. Yes the claim was wierd, but he did the same shit last game. The Slam / Coag team looks bad mostly for his lack of mentioning of Jonny. Which I wish we could have questioned Slam about. Sadly unless Coag for some reason decides to actually play mafia I doubt we will get much usefull information from him. Might be the best vig shot if we got one imo. Two others that really did not mention Jonny either is Hopeless and Oats, and I think we should look at them for tomorrow aswell. Hopeless on Jonny: Only post before vote where jonny is mentioned: The vote: Oats on Jonny: The Vote: I don't really know hopeless playstyle, and I mentioned earlier that Oats can pull this off as either allignment. And now that Jonny flipped scum I'm getting extra worried. Sadly their play this game is mostly short post with little content, so they are hard to read, atleast for me. For now I would think both scum lies in theese four. Anyone have input on oats / hopeless? Don't feel they have been discussed much yet. On February 10 2014 17:17 sidesprang wrote: I would prefer to lynch Oats, reasons being. He hardly mentioned jonny, had no reasons for voting him. Has two suspect townreads (hopeless / JayB). He is also not being very helpfull to town. People who is leaning scum to me is Oats, You, Coag, Hopeless. Pretty much in that order I think. Koshi and Balla lead the lynch, they were too me the two guys looking most towny. Koshi prolly died because of it. 3 guys have votes that they pretty much did not explain. You had Jonny as second lynch (I think), but for some reason was very reluctant to get JayB lynched instead. I feel usualy town when having two scumreads are happy lynching either atleast when its such a landslide in votes. The fact that you are no dropping him completly for the day while having gone that hard for him I don't understand. Anyhow, off too school. I'll check in when I got time. He's not going after people for being inconsistent, or for not contributing (see his soft defense of slam/coag), and there's no mention of whether he thinks people are thinking the same as he is. His defense this game is complete dismissal rather than going through the points and explaining himself:+ Show Spoiler + On February 07 2014 17:56 sidesprang wrote: Quoting this since shorter If you want to apply meta read on me, then do not use my almost 4 year old games. It wont get you anywhere good. You are correct that my mindset and play this game is different. Last month i've been coached and I've shadowed, both for first time. So I do hope I picked up something, that will hopefully improve my play. And of course he didn't really comment on Jonny. He is commenting on Coag today though. - - - Sidesprang was blue that game. I think his play doesn't really match. Would like to hear your thoughts, LoneMeow. | ||
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On February 11 2014 03:03 LoneMeow wrote: What's different now so that the same meta points at him being scum? Sidesprang has contributed more so you can draw more conclusions. | ||
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On February 11 2014 04:09 Coagulation wrote: anyway jay/lonemeow is last scum maybe sidesprang. I would probably attempt to push a sidesprang lynch for self preservation reasons but I dunno if hes scummy. lynch them after Im flipped Wait. If Jay, Lonemeow and Sidesprang are the last scum... Who is the second last scum? | ||
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On February 11 2014 04:20 Coagulation wrote: w/e im not gonna convince anyone here its just talking to me for the sake of dismantling me in front of thread and stroking ur e peens. I don't think you understand how town play works Coag. You don't try to convince people you're town by defending yourself or your reads. You try to convince people you're town by saying who you think are scum, and give reasons why that makes them scum. If they're scum, then they definitely have scum behaviour and motivations. If you're town, then anything people say about you is a misrepresentation. So any case you can make on scum will be stronger than any case that could be made on you. So if you're town, stop being like there's nothing I can do to stop this lynch and start putting some effort into hunting down the last two scum. | ||
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I have no reason to call you scummy except by the way that you're playing this game. So if this is the 'story of your fucking life' then maybe you should think about why that is and what you can do about it. | ||
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Call it a hunch, but I'm going to go with Hopeless. I think Oats is town and I he's convinced me that sidesprang is the better lynch for today. I also feel like trusting his meta read on Coag. I also buy the 'sidesprang's reasons are all bad' argument as when sidesprang was town he actually had some decent arguments on why someone is scummy. This game it's all meta reads and kind-of vote analysis. ##unvote ##vote Sidesprang | ||
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EBWOP: Call it a hunch, but I'm going to go with Oats.* | ||
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He is active, and in a way that contributes to town. He pressures people with good questions, has no problem aggressively pressuring people. He's also excited about this game. Note all the caps, the wagon of justice, he seems very vested in the outcome of the game. His vote against me and the follow up pressure felt very townie. He was trying to expose contradictions or illogical thought process in my play. He sheeps onto Jonny and straight up states it without providing reasons really. He didn't pressure Jonny either. However, Oats has always been fluid with his reads so I can see him doing it as town. His attitude is good here. Rather than meekly going on the wagon or trying to come up with excuses he just straight up does it and doesn't care. The hunch part of my previous post just now was based on his defense of Coag. It just feels really townie although I can't really explain it. I do see where Oats is coming from with his line of thought, so, given my town read of Oats I am inclined to trust him. Also Oat's case against sidesprang makes totes sense. | ||
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 I think Day 2 went well for us. Everybody contributed. We should be able to root out the last scum from this. | ||
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What are your thoughts on Aqua's defense of Sidesprang Day2? | ||
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JonnyLaw's picks for Day 1 : Koshi, LoneMeow, Alakaslam. Sidesprang's watchlist for Day 1: Jonny, Jay, Oats Sidesprang's list of people to look into on Day 2: Slam, Hopeless, Oats - If Sidesprang is asking us to 'look into' them, I'm pretty sure this probably means they're in the clear. After all, scum would not want to draw attention to his teammate. Sidesprang stated: On February 11 2014 15:11 sidesprang wrote: I guess it dont hurt to mention the rest of the reads as I think most of the players are on the same page. I'm town on Balla Aqua JayB Balla because he lead the lynch, and I think his play in general have been pretty much towny through and through. He is also posting way more than he is doing in his scumgames (tho I think he is aware of this meta, so might not be that much of a tell). Aqua was also early on the lynch, and made his own case for it. I like his posts in general, feels like he is really trying to solve the game. JayB is town because his blueclaim and his N1 play. People I'm null on LoneMeow Hopeless TBH I have not read up much on you, mostly because I never got any bad vibes. But i've not really gotten any good ones either. You were early on the coag lynch I think, so that might turn out beneficial for you. Altho If coag flips scum I would not be suprised if he was bussed early eiher. But I guess that is somthing we deal with tomorrow. I was leaning slightly scummy towards hopeless, but I think he might be climbing towards null with his big suki post. I at least think its way more likely the scum is in the remaining three. I think this actually gives us a roadmap to the finish. I doubt Hopeless is scum because Sidesprang was trying to create suspicion against Hopeless. I also doubt LoneMeow is scum because both Jonny and Sidesprang have stated their suspicions on LoneMeow. No comment on his statements to me, you guys can figure that out for yourself. Coag is pretty much confirmed town because sidesprang was trying to push that lynch. Plus Coag is now active and contributing so yay. Thus, I think the final scum lies in Aqua and Jay, based purely on the actions of our flipped scum. More analysis soon. | ||
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1. His back and forth with sidesprang felt very natural. 2. Day 1 he hard pushes a Jonny lynch, during N1 he comments on me: On February 09 2014 13:43 Aquanim wrote: On Suki: Trolly and more importantly content-free start to the game set off serious alarm bells for me at the time. I'm not yet sure how much weight to give that phase of the game as opposed to her greater amount of content later. Hopeless said it very well here: Suki's been contributing her thoughts to the thread and trying to push a lynch but... something feels a little weird. I should have a better thought-out opinion on Suki later. He says something seems a bit weird. This is an obvious segway into Suki is scum. On February 10 2014 06:29 Aquanim wrote: These aren't my best thought-out reads ever, but I have some faith that if I get shot here you guys will be fine anyway. On Suki: + Show Spoiler + Points for town:
Points for scum:
Well, to be honest, those lists didn't help me much. Anyway... I don't feel like the blue-claim argument is a slam-dunk on Suki. In Newbie XXXI I remember pushing a lynch on Oatsmaster, and continuing to push it after he straight-up claimed doctor because I didn't believe him. I was mislynched there, for that among other reasons. Back to the point - I think it's a valid point against Suki but not conclusive. Conclusion: Still not entirely convinced either way, though I have a nagging feeling that she's town. I certainly want to see lynches other than Suki at least considered tomorrow. This one still feels like it could have scum motivation. Leaving me for later seems reasonable. On February 10 2014 07:35 Aquanim wrote: Oats voted for suki twice, I'm not sure to which time you're referring: This post is more-or-less accurate. In the hypothetical case where Oats is scum and Suki is town, I can easily see Oats jumping on this though. THIS post, however, is pretty shitty. Suki had in fact tried to explain why she saw JayB's tryhardness as scummy, and had briefly explained why the Koshi case was bad (not that it needed explaining, hence why I'm comfortable with it being brief). + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2014 13:51 suki wrote: Regarding people's concerns that I'm not scum hunting, I was just having fun at the beginning of the game. So, you can decide if I'm scum hunting or not going forward. I skimmed JayB's case and didn't like it. I don't see the point in meta reading someone off of their pre-game content, or meta reading them 2 hours into the game as the game is still getting started. What threw me off was that he put in a ton of effort trying to find every little thing he could in order to paint Koshi as scum. He basically became super sure that Koshi was scum off of a weak case. He had already stated that he was going to scum hunt and he was hunting so hard it just felt forced and contrived. In other words, I didn't care about the case that he made, or the fact that it was made early, I cared about what motivations he could have had when making that case. Does it make more sense for town to hard tunnel someone off a weak case and try to make them look scummy, or does it make more sense for scum? The fact that the case was made so early is just a bonus point against a town scum-hunting mindset. In my opinion, it's more scummy to take this line of action. Thus I voted Jay. On Koshi Koshi has talked the talk. He just needs to walk the walk. His attitude is different in this game than last. He's more confident and more 'willing' to be active and contribute. If he doesn't hold up his end of the deal then he's an easy lynch. Other than that he hasn't done anything so I am waiting for his contributions when he returns. Furthermore, making a subjective case is not a scumtell and I have no idea why Oats would think it is. tl;dr I am not in any way convinced of Oats' towniness by his reasons for voting Suki. THIS post however, just feels wrong if Aqua is scum. He basically dismantles Oat's case on me when it would have been in his best interest to either support or just ignore it. Aqua's also been throwing suspicion on Balla which is definitely more of a townie thing. Scum just want to steer clear of the strongest townies and kill them in the night. Aqua has no problems facing Balla head on. I like how Aqua's always trying to drum up conversation, how he's commented on pretty much everyone. His defense of sidesprang made me suspicious but on it's own it can't be called scummy. Aqua is still town to me. | ||
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On February 12 2014 09:44 Balla24 wrote: I did not come to the same conclusion about LoneMeow when reading Sidesprangs filter. Sidesprang mentioned him like... 2 or 3 times total. Noted. I'll take a look at LoneMeow too, then. | ||
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I said mountains about Jay in Day 1, so how about I steer clear of that and just judge him based on Day 2. ... ... ... Jay is also town to me, based on his Day 2 play. He's active, he has a different attitude from Day 1. He pushed Sidesprang, then switched to Coag, then back to Sidesprang. I find his reasoning understandable. On February 11 2014 08:24 jaybrundage wrote: In response to + Show Spoiler + On February 11 2014 02:02 suki wrote: Jay's questions directed at Coag: Hi Jay, I notice you're asking about four players specifically. Can you please let me know why these four (I have an idea just want to let you answer it)? You voted sidesprang as a 'policy lynch'. First off, why was it a policy lynch? Second, what are your thoughts on him right now? What are your own thoughts on Oats, Hopeless and LoneMeow? Welp as you may have guessed I am not as sure on the alignment of the players I am asking about. I might be leaning on them a certain way in regards to their alignment but not very sure on any of them. So I want other people's thoughts so I can get a better read on them. I think Oats is likely town. Similar style of last game. Doesn't seem to be bothered by the pressure that Aqua and Balla were putting on him. Seems reasonable carefree. Hopeless1der is a player I am not sure on again. A common trait in the people I mentioned. Leaning town because he is playing so differently from last scum game. He seems to be thinking about the game. Doesn't post alot which makes it trickier to read him. Lonemeow is someone I feel that is posting very similar to his last game as town. So stands to reason he is town again this game. Seems to be reading up on the game. Posting his questions and little reads. I wanted to push Sidesprang as a policy lynch because he has the smallest filter atm. I want him to post more he doesn't put enough content in the thread. I have a hard time reading him just because of that. However Coag's terrible play is just screaming for a lynch. So I couldn't proceed with my original play of pressuring Sidesprang. I had no intention to actually try to get people to lynch him. I just wanted him to realize that he can be policy lynch material because of his lurker tendencies this game. My scum reads should be well known. I believe Suki that you are similar to Hopeless1der in that you will be the best scum on the team and therefore the hardest to lynch. You play can read either good town Or good scum and that what makes it difficult. Your play if you are scum is also comparable to scum marv. You don't do overtly scummy things that make you an easy lynch. You play using reasoning and meta and all that good stuff. This post feels very open. So yeah. Jay also town. . . . Yes I know what I said about conclusions from Sidesprang/Jonny's suspects. I'm just going through these people and saying my comments because I'm too tired to do everything first and then post all my thoughts in a row. If I can't come to any conclusions tonight I'll have a look again tomorrow morning when my mind is fresh. | ||
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Run through of his play: + Show Spoiler + Lonemeow was AFK for the first 24 hours of the game (approximately.. I'm going by my post here + Show Spoiler + On February 08 2014 01:32 suki wrote: What do people think about lynching slam or LoneMeow for pulling the same 24 hour disappearance trick that Hopeless did in the previous game? I know that slam can check the game from his phone and has no qualms about posting from his phone. This behaviour is not typical of either of them. He starts the game off calling Jonny scummy: On February 08 2014 03:30 LoneMeow wrote: Hello. Had major emergency at work today so I have only done a quick read of the thread so far. So far I'd call JonnyLaw the scummiest of the bunch. Just compare his posting to the previous game and his newbies. One liners, off topic, no hostility towards who he thinks is scum. Proper read commencing now, if there's anything you want me to comment on or pay extra attention to let me know. His immediate follow up puts a few people as null or town and Jonny as the most scummy: On February 08 2014 05:19 LoneMeow wrote: Okay, so: JonnyLaw Not playing to his usual aggressive, abrasive town meta (and he was called very town for it in the previous game, so there's no reason to change). Posting a lot of one liners and not volunteering his opinion. Verdict: scummy Balla24 Hunting scum, despite the roleplay garbage more or less playing like the last game. Verdict: leaning town jaybrundage Early posts are terrible. Case on Koshi is absolutely rubbish. I think suki makes a reasonable point here: This is also horribly scummy, why would you narrow lynch between 2 candidates less than halfway through D1: However, this seems like a town reaction to the situation: Verdict: null-ish, leaning scum suki I really hated the early game trolling and roleplay garbage, but she started to pressure people and post opinions after a while. Makes some good points such as above. Verdict: null Which is also really hard to believe if he's scum... At this point though, Balla and Oats are pressuring and voting me. I'm hard pushing a case on Jay. Only Koshi is on Jonny. If we assume that scum LM planned to bus Jonny, it may have seemed ok to do at this point due to the chaos that town was in. On February 08 2014 07:10 LoneMeow wrote: suki, I agree that some aspects of jaybrundage's play seem scummy, but I just can't ignore the very towny-looking things completely at this stage. The frustration-thing seems very genuine to me, and that is towny as heck. So I would not want to lynch him as the #1 choice. What do you think about Koshi? His play is somewhat different from the last game, but is that because he's scum-Koshi and trying to hide it (as we know his meta from the previous game) or because he's town-Koshi? LoneMeow is soft defending Jay and also pushing suspicion on Koshi. He's not actually trying to push JonnyLaw right now who should be his #1 scum. On February 08 2014 07:25 LoneMeow wrote: He's definitely not as scummy as he was in the last game, but I'm not so certain about him being town either unfortunately. The problem I have is, I think he's good enough to fake this now that he knows why he was called scum in the last game. I'm not a big fan of things like: This is also pretty interesting: I wouldn't mind hearing what caused the 180 in opinion. Here again, throwing suspicion at Koshi.. by saying he could be playing a really good scum game. On February 08 2014 23:13 LoneMeow wrote: And just to make my stance clear: ##Vote: JonnyLaw Wait a sec. LoneMeow was fifth to vote JonnyLaw, which is reallly late. Between his entrance post where he said JonnyLaw was scummy, to the point where he voted Jonny, very little of his activity is pressuring reads from other people on Jonny or explaining why Jonny is scummy. There is one post of mention where he explains that Jonny's usual aggression is missing.. But other than that none. On February 09 2014 06:31 LoneMeow wrote: JonnyLaw, in case you are actually town you absolutely MUST give us your updated reads as it looks like you're going to be lynched. This just feels odd... I've seen posts from scum like this before. LoneMeow wants to vote Coag after Jonny's flip. He also pressures me, and sets a trap by asking me about Sidesprang's II Titanic game, because right after I posted my comments he says: On February 11 2014 03:03 LoneMeow wrote: The point about him using far more meta seems somewhat valid. The defense point I'd say doesn't fully hold water because the attack on him was very different. And he did not actually comment on the eventual D1 lynch at all in II Titanic, but then again the Spaghetticus train happened late into the day and he seems to not have been around. All in all, pretty these points you made are pretty inconclusive. I'd like to point out that you changed your read on him earlier from scum to null based partially on II Titanic meta: What's different now so that the same meta points at him being scum? So, discrediting my read against sidesprang while also saying I'm contradicting myself. When I reply: On February 11 2014 04:17 suki wrote: Sidesprang has contributed more so you can draw more conclusions. He didn't respond or continue to pressure me. On February 12 2014 05:32 LoneMeow wrote: Balla24, how does sidesprang's D1 posting fit with the idea that he's scum? There's nothing super convincing in your case, I'm not sold yet. Soft defense of sidesprang. And then he reluctantly votes sidesprang. On February 12 2014 05:51 LoneMeow wrote: Now that you say it, I see it too. The only thing he has said about Alakaslam before the lynch is: I wish I was more confident on this lynch. ##Vote: sidesprang Points against LM: 1. He comes into the game really late. 2. He starts off the game with only Jonny being scummy to him, yet doesn't further analyze Jonny throughout the day or try to convince people Jonny's scummy. 3. He is fifth to vote Jonny. 4. He soft defended sidesprang and was reluctant to vote him. 5. Basically he did nothing this game that really furthered the lynches on the two flipped scum. ... I'm kinda tired. my brain is failing me... but yeah someone take a look at this and share their opinions. I'll probably take another look in the morning when I've had some sleep. LM looks scummy to me. | ||
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Hopeless is way more active than last game. I was going to say that this points to him being more town but actually thinking about it, he was pretty active at the end of Day 1 last game, active enough to convince people he was town. I was also going to say he's more light-hearted but actually his tone seems about the same (minus the reboot pic that he posted when his wireless conked out which is null imo). He hard pushes Jay as the lynch on Day 1: On February 07 2014 10:35 Hopeless1der wrote: I dont like jayb..so forced and trivial. Like in a too-scummy-to-be-scum way. On February 08 2014 03:08 Hopeless1der wrote: is jay TRYING to be scummy? I actually liked the way he pressured and thought it was townie. and then he randomly votes Jonny: On February 08 2014 23:44 Hopeless1der wrote: Of course he disagrees with me, he's scum Koshi. /sarcasm I may not be back before deadline, family stuff. I'll try to keep updated by phone ##Unvote ##Vote: JonnyLaw So yeah it's a bit strange. Pushes Jay the whole game, I'm stilll hard pushing Jay. Suddenly he votes Jonny with no explanation. Hopeless then posts his big scum theory on me, which is the biggest effort he's put all game (and which I felt was a big point in his favour). However, scum COULD have written it so let's look into his follow up... ... .. He completely forgets about it. That's really weird. Putting so much effort into calling someone scum and then not even following up. He gets sidetracked on Coag when thread sentiment is headed that way. He also seems to still be seeing Jay as scummy, reaffirmed that Jay's quote was not a blue claim, but isn't pushing Jay either. On February 12 2014 08:04 Hopeless1der wrote: i kinda still like suki for scum because of her meta-reading of sidesprang being so out to lunch. What about Hopeless' meta read on me? What about my 'bad' case on Jay? What about avoiding Jonny's scum games? About 'wait-and-see' with Jonny? Defending Jonny? Somehow, Hopeless went from suki is scum I have a huge case with actual valid points to, 'i kinda still like suki for scum' with no explanation in between. He also didn't talk about sidesprang yesterday and instead of pushing me or Jay just went with effectively a policy lynch. Conclusion I agree with Aqua, Hopeless looks a lot more scummy than LoneMeow. He's my number one scum read at the moment. | ||
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Jay starts out D2 by voting sidesprang, but quickly jumps on Coag. The order of votes at the time was me, then aqua, then lonemeow, then Jay. If Jay thinks I'm scum N1, why would he vote with me on what is essentially a policy lynch... If I'm scum going for the easy policy lynch wouldn't that set off warning bells? Hmm. Jay eventually votes sidesprang, but he is #7 to vote. That means that in Day 2 his play could be described as a sheep onto Coag, followed by a late bandwagon onto sidesprang. On February 12 2014 06:52 jaybrundage wrote: Sidesprang not being in the thread when hes about to be lynched doesn't look so great. Coag could be town reading up on him. I do find it odd that he asked for a vig shot and then got angry when people were gonna lynch him. ##Unvote ##Vote Sidesprang Lets hope for the best. mmmmmmm.. This feels weird. Why is he switching from Coag to Sidesprang? Why does he think Coag could be town all of a sudden? He voted both Coag and Sidesprang as "policy lynches" Day 2. When he switches to sidesprang as #7th on the vote, he says Coag could be town. On February 12 2014 06:54 jaybrundage wrote: I also think Oats is pretty townie sticking his neck out like that. But he had a town read and defended so that looks pretty good on him. I'm not sure about Sidesprang being scum or not. Difficult to read him. He's not sure about sidesprang either. So basically, his vote on sidesprang was weak as hell and seems to have been made only because everyone else was on Sidesprang. Unlike other people, who he provides reasons for why they're scummy or townie to him, he basically says nothing about Sidesprang. . . . I'm also really really curious to hear what exactly was up with his 'blue claim' on Day 1. I want an answer on this tonight. Also, Jay you haven't stated who is suspicious to you right now after Day 2. Me, Coag and Sidesprang were the only people you commented on as being scummy. Who are you looking at for Day 3? | ||
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Now that it's Day 3, he has not explained what that claim was about. Nor do I think there is a good explanation. Also because Jay was claiming blue, scum should have killed him either N1 or N2. This didn't happen. Jay was scummy to me on Day 1, his Day 2 has been shown to be weak. He has no explanation or follow up for his blue claim. ##vote JayBrundage | ||
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Those were the days when I first got into BW >_< so nostalgic. | ||
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We will avenge your death with BLOOD, as our dignified european tradition dictates. | ||
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Are you parity cop or not? | ||
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Right now the fact that you're beating around the bush is extremely scummy to me. Want to explain why you're trying to confuse things? | ||
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Jay, are you claiming parity cop? Tell me, why did you choose to check Aqua out of all the people in the game? On February 10 2014 05:05 jaybrundage wrote: In response to + Show Spoiler + On February 10 2014 03:17 Balla24 wrote: There's a big problem here in that out of Jaybrundage/Suki, both had very similar non logical progressions on Jonny. Both wanted to see "more" from him, both saw him as scummy later in the day but didn't switch to him. I feel that Suki's progression makes more sense. She was pushing jaybrundage hard because she thought he was scum. Jay's doesn't really follow. It was clear that Jonny was going to get lynched, and he doesn't really share his opinions, he OMGUS vs suki and then his thread presence during the lynch was non-existent. There was no thoughts on the lynch DURING the lynch which I find really surprising for jay. He kind of accepted it and stuck on a useless suki vote, didn't try to push it on anybody else etc etc. He wasn't doing anything even though he should have been doing something, as though it was a lost cause. I really do feel like we have a scum within suki/jay though, so if we lynch within them we have 50% chance on either. Whereas out of the jonny voters I think we are getting more to a 25% chance or so to hit the scum. Although if I'm wrong about this. There's actually 2 scum in the jonny vote and therefore we have closer to a 50% chance of hitting scum in there. I can't decide whether I'd like to lynch within the jonny voters or within jay/suki. Yea I was a bit of a mess later on in day 1. I didn't feel convicted with jonny being scum. I had an early town read on him. I thought you and Koshi were scum and when jonny was agreeing with my thinking it made me think he was town. I was using the heuristic that people who think similarly to me were more likely to be the same alignment as me. However I was wrong with ya'll being scum and similarly with Jonny being town. So yea my reads were all pretty bad early day 1. I began to see jonny as nuller as the day went on. But I never felt that he was sure scum or anything. Then when I got too the thread in the near end of the day. I felt scared to contribute as I didn't want to attract unwanted attention by saying the wrong thing and getting mislynched. I had had a pretty shitty day 1 so I was being pretty cautious. This is a bit of a scummy mind set but I didn't really have much conviction on jonny. I was still pretty null on him. I felt going to the thread and waffling would look bad. So in the end when I commented I didn't mention him at all. As I had nothing of use to add. Instead I commented on other people of interest. I could of moved my vote to jonny. But it felt like it was an empty action. What would be the point of it. He was getting lynched and I had nothing to add or much of opinion that was worth voicing. Alot of this hesitancy stemmed from my bad day 1 and at that point in the game. I was fine with my strong town reads: Balla, Aqua having the reins to the lynch wagon. My biggest concern after my botched start was not to get mislynched tho as opposed to trying to lead a lynch. I tried with who I thought was scum at the beginning. But after that went badly I just wanted to make sure town didn't get a mislynch on me. So that should explain my end of the day play I believe. If you have any questions feel free to ask. I might not be back respond till after the night is over tho. Why are you checking Aqua out of all people, when Hopeless was up for discussion N2? Or even LoneMeow? Or Coag? Why not me, who everyone is on the fence about because everyone is saying I have such a good scum game? Please, explain how Aqua makes any sense? Because I can explain how it makes sense from a scum perspective. You don't want to give anyone a free ticket that would be used against you in LYLO. So you pick the towniest person left and hope it somehow flies. | ||
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On February 13 2014 08:08 jaybrundage wrote: Well lets say I was blue hypothetically I would probably be Parity Cop hypothetically. And I would hypothetically check Koshi day 1 for a control check hypothetically. And then would check Aquanim hypothetically. To see if he was scum hypothetically. But he would come up the SAME hypothetically. So he could be town hypothetically or godfather hypothetically. However if I'm the only blue hypothetically. Then they might not have any mafia role hypothetically. So If I was blue hypothetically that would be what might of happened hypothetically. KOSHI was SCUM to you in Day 1. You made a huge case on him, and then when I kept pressuring you, you came off it with this: On February 08 2014 14:18 jaybrundage wrote: I just looked at Koshi's filter since the last time I said I wasn't gonna tunnel him. I'm null on him atm. Did it just for you Suki. Now go away. He's NULL to you. How is this in ANY WAY a control check? This is a pure contradiction. You're done Jay. GG SCUM. | ||
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On February 13 2014 08:34 jaybrundage wrote: Jonny slipped on Koshi being town. Suki your taking outdated reads to make a case. Ah. That makes sense to me. Hmmmmmmm. I also missed your post here: On February 12 2014 07:13 jaybrundage wrote: The five bolded were the people that were needed to lynch Sidesprang. The underlined were people that were extra and were not needed and the people on the Coag vote were obviously not on the scum lynch. If we rule out a bus from Coagulation. So with this being said I think its likely that Aquanim or Hopeless1der are the scum suspects. I would be in this list too. But i knows I'm town. Where you did state Aqua was scum suspect.. even though I did a ctrl-f through your filter. Hmmm... | ||
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On February 13 2014 08:45 jaybrundage wrote: Yes gosh you take out the fun of all these things People's LIVES are on the line!! What is this, a GAME to you? + Show Spoiler + lol | ||
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Do you have anything to add to it? | ||
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On February 13 2014 02:52 Hopeless1der wrote: Balla: Obvious town. Major push on Jonny Day1, constant pressure on the thread in general. I don’t see this as scum-scum interaction. It is too ballsy to draw attention to a teammate when you can alert them via qt to get back in the thread asap. Despite general apathy, balla continues to play right to the end of Day2 and actively seeks out more scum, ultimately securing a 2nd scum lynch with the help of Oats defending coag and generally beating the thread into submission. I also like his vote-count analysis posts, especially because he isn’t hiding behind them as activity, he’s using them to springboard his broader ideas about the game and then focus in based on his conclusions. Aquanim: Was accused of defending Jonny day1 by Balla. Technically true, but I see aqua go on to pressure Jonny and subsequently find him to be scummy. He was initially on jayb, but then again most of the thread was at first. I don’t find anything scummy in the way that Day1 played out for aqua. Once he’s committed to his vote on Jonny he spends most of his time pushing Jonny’s lynch either by defending alternative candidates or trying to draw people to looking at Jonny’s scummy ways. sidenote+ Show Spoiler + On February 08 2014 18:07 Aquanim wrote: Is what you're trying to say here that you don't want to push jayB because you were wrong about him in a previous game? I don't understand. Coag: Counter-wagon to sprang, was in all likelihood going to die and ended up being saved by Oats. Since they can’t be scum together, the simple answer is that coag was the scum mislynch for the day. LoneMeow This is more associative with flipped scum than with LM’s play, but Jonny had LoneMeow as scum for shifty reasons and LM was eager to point them out and pressure Jonny concerning why he was able to ignore LM’s filter yet call him scum for lurking. Also the VCA from the Day2 lynch is quite appealing for a town-LoneMeow. jaybrundage Day1 sucked, Day2 was fantastic. Actually pushed sprang most of the day as a policy lynch (and called it as much) while trying to get coag to play. He later admits that he never really wanted to lynch sprang, just scare him a bit and then ends up voting him (three times lol) at the end of the day. I don’t see scum admitting they weren’t going to follow through on a policy lynch and then going through with it anyways. Oatsmaster Besides my initial read of Oats, he hard defended coag and lead the charge on sidesprang. If you don’t already think Oats is town, I’m not going to convince you. Suki Day1 case is in my filter. Day2 she pushed coag all day and then meekly said Her filter is about 2/3 Day/Night 1 and 1/3 Day/Night 2 (I know Night2 isnt over yet, but the disparity is there) Based on general activity and the sudden and unexpected switch to sprang she's definitely my top choice for scum. Suki was once again seen defending the scum-lynch by saying they are contributing and deserve another day to prove themselves I noticed that I'm the only person on the list labelled scum. I'm telling now I'm not scum. Who would be your next choice and why? | ||
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Hopeless' play has been much different. Also the fact that he's given himself no outs is really .. kamikaze as scum? I don't know.. ##unvote ##vote LoneMeow I made a case against LoneMeow during N2. I want more people to look at it and consider LoneMeow being scum. The summary from the case: 1. He comes into the game really late. 2. He starts off the game with only Jonny being scummy to him, yet doesn't further analyze Jonny throughout the day or try to convince people Jonny's scummy. 3. He is fifth to vote Jonny. 4. He soft defended sidesprang and was reluctant to vote him. 5. Basically he did nothing this game that really furthered the lynches on the two flipped scum. I'd like to hear opinions on LoneMeow in addition to the commentary that's obviously going to happen about Jay and Hopeless. | ||
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Case in point, this post in Newbie Mini Mafia : Episode 1. I made a huge case on Bum and then Bum destroyed it with his first reply. In this case, I saw a huuuge contradiction in Jay's words. He then explained it in a way that made total sense and in a townie way. Then Hopeless came in and said that if no one counter claims then Jay's probably telling the truth. I don't see how Jay can claim cop if he's the last scum.. so that removes him from the picture. Honestly right now I'm just really confused. I'm looking at Hopeless, Coag and LoneMeow and I just can't seem to latch on to anything that's hard evidence that they're scum. The more I think, the more things that I dig up that make me think that it could only come from them if they're town. Well except LoneMeow, he always plays this super careful game. Last game I totally thought he was scum even though he was town, this game I get the same feeling. Overall though, LoneMeow is still the most likely scum to me. I just don't see what he's done that makes him town. | ||
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Well anyways I'm going to sleep but I'll try to comment in the morning again. Seriously guys, look at LoneMeow. And also Coag needs to come in here and post. | ||
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Also I've never hard tunneled as scum. It's too hard and it draws too much attention. Like, look at where I am right now, top scum suspect. If I'm as good at scum as people say, I'd have set myself up MUCH better than this. Also I'm less active as scum because I like to calculate my moves. You'll notice in my most recent scum game I pretty much never conversed with people. Why? Because it's harder to be consistent if you have to think on your feet. So like. Start looking at other people because there's no way I'm scum this game. | ||
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Coag. probably. Still hoping he comes out today and posts reads. His activity against sidesprang looks really town but aside from that he just has no contributions... the reason we read him as town is because he doesn't put effort in as scum.. Well, this amount of effort wouldn't be hard to fake if he just randomly decided he wanted to win as scum. I put Coag over Hopeless because Hopeless' play makes no sense for a scum planning for late game. He still has two mislynches to go and yet he's townreading everyone except me, his one scum pick. Makes sense as town, not as scum. | ||
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I just see a lot of pressure coming from LoneMeow and Hopeless and I'm trying to address the points brought against me. | ||
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Like, from the start people were like suki could be scum she's really good at it. I just don't see what I could have done differently that would have made people not see me as scummy. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On February 13 2014 00:41 suki wrote: Hopeless: Hopeless is way more active than last game. I was going to say that this points to him being more town but actually thinking about it, he was pretty active at the end of Day 1 last game, active enough to convince people he was town. I was also going to say he's more light-hearted but actually his tone seems about the same (minus the reboot pic that he posted when his wireless conked out which is null imo). He hard pushes Jay as the lynch on Day 1: I actually liked the way he pressured and thought it was townie. and then he randomly votes Jonny: So yeah it's a bit strange. Pushes Jay the whole game, I'm stilll hard pushing Jay. Suddenly he votes Jonny with no explanation. Hopeless then posts his big scum theory on me, which is the biggest effort he's put all game (and which I felt was a big point in his favour). However, scum COULD have written it so let's look into his follow up... ... .. He completely forgets about it. That's really weird. Putting so much effort into calling someone scum and then not even following up. He gets sidetracked on Coag when thread sentiment is headed that way. He also seems to still be seeing Jay as scummy, reaffirmed that Jay's quote was not a blue claim, but isn't pushing Jay either. What about Hopeless' meta read on me? What about my 'bad' case on Jay? What about avoiding Jonny's scum games? About 'wait-and-see' with Jonny? Defending Jonny? Somehow, Hopeless went from suki is scum I have a huge case with actual valid points to, 'i kinda still like suki for scum' with no explanation in between. He also didn't talk about sidesprang yesterday and instead of pushing me or Jay just went with effectively a policy lynch. Conclusion I agree with Aqua, Hopeless looks a lot more scummy than LoneMeow. He's my number one scum read at the moment. | ||
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Aqua questions him on it and he's like: On February 13 2014 07:29 Hopeless1der wrote: activity falling off cliffs is not scummy to you aqua? But just now he said: On February 13 2014 12:52 Hopeless1der wrote: a large portion of it is that I "forgot" about my scumread on suki which is patently untrue. I grew incredibly apathetic due to coag's behavior and stopped playing for the most part. Aside from that, people calling me scum are playing the game. I look bad, I never commented on sprang and scarcely commented on Jonny. When calling me scum, it only means you are wrong, not bad. That's my fault, but meh we're doing so well I doubt it'll matter in the end. So it's kind of hypocritical... mm... | ||
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Soft defending scum, even your own scum read, is not scummy. Town does not know scum alignments so obviously they're going to try to look at things from all directions. Playstyle too. You think me tunneling Jay day 1 is indicative of me scum? People were agreeing with my case but went off it because of the 'blue claim'. How is trying to convince people who you think is scum, scummy? And Jay, you soft-claimed Day 1, which saved you from a lynch. Then said nothing about it N1 or D2 or N2. What, am I going to let someone cruise by for free because of a soft claim? Even Balla wanted you to explain your claim on N2 and you didn't. The things you are pinning on me as scummy are not scummy. | ||
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Anyways, I'm going to take another look at people and post my thoughts in a bit. | ||
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It's not an explanation for the Jay tunnel, it's an explanation for forcing Jay to properly claim. | ||
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On February 14 2014 01:19 LoneMeow wrote: Hopeless1der, is there a particular reason why you'd lynch me and Coagulation before Aquanim? You mentioned his D1 play but said nothing about D2, how does that look to you? It seems like you are trying to push some suspicion towards Aqua, because why would Hopeless lynch Aqua when cop has confirmed that he's town? Is there something scummy that Aqua's done that makes you doubt the read? | ||
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On February 14 2014 01:41 Hopeless1der wrote: Suki how have you flipped so hard from jay is fakeclaimng to there are two confirmed townies. because no one's counterclaimed. You were the one who brought that up and it made sense. | ||
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Looking now, I noticed that LoneMeow was actually soft-defending Sidesprang. + Show Spoiler + Day 1 is over, Jonny is flipped scum. On February 10 2014 15:30 LoneMeow wrote: Oats - null. Hate the fact that he doesn't give reasoning for his reads but he does that as town so... Hopeless1der - slight lean on town for effort. Sidesprang - no idea, need to re-read. Between you and suki I'd prefer lynching suki right now, I'll get to the reasons when I finish reading things. First he's null on sidesprang. On February 11 2014 02:07 LoneMeow wrote: suki, since you looked into sidesprang's play in previous games, would you agree that his play here looks similar to II Titanic Mafia? On February 11 2014 03:03 LoneMeow wrote: The point about him using far more meta seems somewhat valid. The defense point I'd say doesn't fully hold water because the attack on him was very different. And he did not actually comment on the eventual D1 lynch at all in II Titanic, but then again the Spaghetticus train happened late into the day and he seems to not have been around. All in all, pretty these points you made are pretty inconclusive. I'd like to point out that you changed your read on him earlier from scum to null based partially on II Titanic meta: What's different now so that the same meta points at him being scum? Refuting my reads on sidesprang. Again saying 'you went from scum to null on sidesprang based on this game where he was blue. What's so different now?' On February 11 2014 03:06 LoneMeow wrote: Also, what besides meta makes you think he's scum? You earlier quoted one post as "pretty weak", what else is there? Basically trying to discredit me by pointing out that I have a weak case on sidesprang. On February 12 2014 05:51 LoneMeow wrote: Now that you say it, I see it too. The only thing he has said about Alakaslam before the lynch is: I wish I was more confident on this lynch. ##Vote: sidesprang And his eventual vote on sidesprang which is a really weak 'I guess I see how he's scummy'. This post demonstrates that in Day 2, LoneMeow put significant effort to discrediting my case against sidesprang and push me towards thinking sidesprang's play might be similar to his blue play. His eventual vote on sidesprang is weak. | ||
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On February 14 2014 01:52 LoneMeow wrote: Even if that makes it likely that he really is cop, it does not mean the check is validated in any way given that the setup can contain godfather. Exactly. So you must think Aqua must be scummy in some way to be pushing this line of thought. What are your thoughts on Aqua? | ||
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On February 14 2014 01:42 LoneMeow wrote: An unconfirmed cop has an unconfirmed check. Does that make Aquanim confirmed in any way? It should be obvious that Aquanim's D2 vote is somewhat suspicious and I'm trying to ensure we actually have discussed options this time around, no matter who ends up getting lynched in the end. Ok so can you explain why you think Aqua's Day 2 is suspicious? | ||
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The following people I think are town, and this is pretty much the order I have from most to least townie. Oats - For leading the lynch against sidesprang. For his pressure play. Jay - For claiming cop. I think he'll be shot N3. His Day 2 was decent. His response to my case today on who he chose for his cop checks was really townie too. Aqua - Townie play. Townie interaction with sidesprang. Can't see Aqua being scum. Hopeless - Big filter. Townie Day 3. If he starts playing a different tune once I'm dead I guess take a closer look at him. Coag - Counter lynch to sidesprang. Although he hasn't done anything for town. Meta-wise though he seems more likely to be town as he is playing the game now... LoneMeow I think is scummy. If LoneMeow isn't scum I really don't know cuz everyone else looks town to me. LoneMeow hasn't stuck his neck out, conveniently hasn't read anybody as town. Has thrown suspicion on everyone today except Oats. In day 1 and 2 he sort of lingered in the background and didn't have any effect on the lynches. When I die lynch LoneMeow 100%. After he's gone I guess it's between Coag and Hopeless? But yeah I dunno. Anyways I don't really have much else to say. If it isn't LoneMeow then I'm completely lost on who scum would be. Everyone else just looks town to me. Sorry I couldn't help town any more than this. | ||
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On February 14 2014 12:14 Aquanim wrote: Can you explain to me the distinction you draw between "throwing suspicion on everyone" and "considering all of the possibilities for the last scum"? There's only one scum left. That means that no matter how many suspects you have, you're going to have to accept that aside from one person, everyone else is town. You can consider all the possibilities for the last scum but at some point you have to narrow it down, decide who looks town to you and who looks like they're scum. Pressuring people is fine. It's not like you're saying 'hey this person here is definitely the last scum so I don't have to pressure anyone else' . . . but the mindset is what's the difference between a town at this point in the game and a mafia. Town is trying to find the last scum. Mafia is trying to keep their options open so they can continue to push mislynches. | ||
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Someone with no town reads like LoneMeow can just continue to push without technically being inconsistent with their previous play. Off the top of my head Oats has stated the Aqua and Coag look super town. Jay sees Aqua as town.. can't remember who else. I can't remember about you either Aqua and I don't feel like looking. Hopeless said everybody looks town except me. Out of everybody LoneMeow is alone in this regard and I think it's because he's scum and he wants to set himself up for the late game. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On February 13 2014 02:52 Hopeless1der wrote: Balla: Obvious town. Major push on Jonny Day1, constant pressure on the thread in general. I don’t see this as scum-scum interaction. It is too ballsy to draw attention to a teammate when you can alert them via qt to get back in the thread asap. Despite general apathy, balla continues to play right to the end of Day2 and actively seeks out more scum, ultimately securing a 2nd scum lynch with the help of Oats defending coag and generally beating the thread into submission. I also like his vote-count analysis posts, especially because he isn’t hiding behind them as activity, he’s using them to springboard his broader ideas about the game and then focus in based on his conclusions. Aquanim: Was accused of defending Jonny day1 by Balla. Technically true, but I see aqua go on to pressure Jonny and subsequently find him to be scummy. He was initially on jayb, but then again most of the thread was at first. I don’t find anything scummy in the way that Day1 played out for aqua. Once he’s committed to his vote on Jonny he spends most of his time pushing Jonny’s lynch either by defending alternative candidates or trying to draw people to looking at Jonny’s scummy ways. sidenote+ Show Spoiler + On February 08 2014 18:07 Aquanim wrote: Is what you're trying to say here that you don't want to push jayB because you were wrong about him in a previous game? I don't understand. Coag: Counter-wagon to sprang, was in all likelihood going to die and ended up being saved by Oats. Since they can’t be scum together, the simple answer is that coag was the scum mislynch for the day. LoneMeow This is more associative with flipped scum than with LM’s play, but Jonny had LoneMeow as scum for shifty reasons and LM was eager to point them out and pressure Jonny concerning why he was able to ignore LM’s filter yet call him scum for lurking. Also the VCA from the Day2 lynch is quite appealing for a town-LoneMeow. jaybrundage Day1 sucked, Day2 was fantastic. Actually pushed sprang most of the day as a policy lynch (and called it as much) while trying to get coag to play. He later admits that he never really wanted to lynch sprang, just scare him a bit and then ends up voting him (three times lol) at the end of the day. I don’t see scum admitting they weren’t going to follow through on a policy lynch and then going through with it anyways. Oatsmaster Besides my initial read of Oats, he hard defended coag and lead the charge on sidesprang. If you don’t already think Oats is town, I’m not going to convince you. Suki Day1 case is in my filter. Day2 she pushed coag all day and then meekly said Her filter is about 2/3 Day/Night 1 and 1/3 Day/Night 2 (I know Night2 isnt over yet, but the disparity is there) Based on general activity and the sudden and unexpected switch to sprang she's definitely my top choice for scum. Suki was once again seen defending the scum-lynch by saying they are contributing and deserve another day to prove themselves This post is very townie. Reasons why he thinks people are town. Narrows the field down to one last scum. I already explained why this is a townie mindset. On February 13 2014 08:29 Hopeless1der wrote: ##unvote ##vote: jaybrundage Hopeless voted me. Then I pointed out some glaring contradictions in Jay's play. Hopeless insta-switched to Jay. Of course, in the end Jay ended up with good reasons for what I thought were contradictions. However, it strikes me as very townie to go with the flow like this. If Jay didn't have a good defense for my case he would look awful right now even without any counterclaim. Scum would know that I'm wrong. It would be a lot better to stay quiet and watch from the sidelines rather than get right into it. Making a snap decision to insta-vote the way Hopeless did is something that is hard to do when you're trying to make sure you don't slip up. Not impossible, but difficult. Those two things in Day 3 seem very townie to me and unlikely for scum to do. | ||
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On February 14 2014 16:03 LoneMeow wrote: From defending sidesprang into voting him after the hammer vote has dropped - how does that not look suspicious? Also note that Aquanim defended sidesprang when his vote was on someone he said he wasn't sure was scum - that's mighty suspicious, defending scum that is the counterwagon to someone you are not very certain is scum. Funny you say this because the way I see it is you were defending sidesprang too, just not as vocally and in a more roundabout way. And somehow people aren't considering this even though I wrote up a whole post on it. And maybe you 'dropped the hammer' but you were still vote #5 on him. A fairly late vote. And unlike Aqua who was very clear with his thought progression on sidesprang, who was wrestling back and forth with his read. You had: 1. no idea, need to reread + Show Spoiler + On February 10 2014 15:30 LoneMeow wrote: Oats - null. Hate the fact that he doesn't give reasoning for his reads but he does that as town so... Hopeless1der - slight lean on town for effort. Sidesprang - no idea, need to re-read. Between you and suki I'd prefer lynching suki right now, I'll get to the reasons when I finish reading things. 2. I thought sidesprang looked somewhat towny earlier but I'm far less sure now. + Show Spoiler + On February 10 2014 16:13 LoneMeow wrote: Oatsmaster or sidesprang. I thought sidesprang looked somewhat towny earlier but I'm far less sure now. 3. "Suki do you agree Sidesprang's play looks like II Titanic (where he was blue)?" + Show Spoiler + On February 11 2014 02:07 LoneMeow wrote: suki, since you looked into sidesprang's play in previous games, would you agree that his play here looks similar to II Titanic Mafia? 4. All in all, these points you made in your case against sidesprang are inconclusive + Show Spoiler + On February 11 2014 03:03 LoneMeow wrote: The point about him using far more meta seems somewhat valid. The defense point I'd say doesn't fully hold water because the attack on him was very different. And he did not actually comment on the eventual D1 lynch at all in II Titanic, but then again the Spaghetticus train happened late into the day and he seems to not have been around. All in all, pretty these points you made are pretty inconclusive. I'd like to point out that you changed your read on him earlier from scum to null based partially on II Titanic meta: What's different now so that the same meta points at him being scum? 5. What besides meta is there that says sidesprang is scummy? + Show Spoiler + On February 11 2014 03:06 LoneMeow wrote: Also, what besides meta makes you think he's scum? You earlier quoted one post as "pretty weak", what else is there? 6. I see what you're saying Balla. I'll vote sidesprang. Wish I was more confident in this lynch. + Show Spoiler + On February 12 2014 05:51 LoneMeow wrote: Now that you say it, I see it too. The only thing he has said about Alakaslam before the lynch is: I wish I was more confident on this lynch. ##Vote: sidesprang Now I'll explain how this makes sense from a scum mindset: First off, he stays pretty much null on sidesprang to try to avoid attention later. He's soft defending sidesprang by using leading questions and refuting my case against sidesprang. He can't directly oppose the lynch because it would be too obvious, but he wants to avoid supporting it so he doesnt lose a teammate unnecessarily. He sheeps onto Balla before it gets too late for him to vote without looking horrible. | ||
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On February 14 2014 16:27 LoneMeow wrote: Say maybe 50%. See, the problem for me is that I know your only scum read is wrong and it's causing real issues trying to figure out whether you're just mistaken tunneled town or scum trying to desperately get out of the situation. This definitely does not help: See how easy it would be for you to refute any of the town reads you threw out after my mislynch when you've said something like that? So basically it makes the said reads pretty much worthless. What do you mean, refute? If you get lynched today and turn up town, tomorrow I'm going to have to find a very very good explanation for who I think is the next town because I've left myself no out. Anyone who I say looks scummy, I will have to explain why the town reads from before don't apply. You on the other hand, have left yourself plenty of outs. After my mislynch tomorrow you can go after almost anyone you want and it would not contradict your previous play because you've continually been suspicious of everyone, with no attempt to really find out who is town even though there's only one scum left. The way you're playing this game is off from a town perspective. | ||
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On February 14 2014 03:23 Coagulation wrote: I still stand by my read aqua is probably the last scum. suki is pretty town Lonemeow is confirmed town theres no way hes scum after his hammer. oats is towniest town to ever town. hopeless or jay if its not aqua. @Coag, Oats already asked you but can you look at LoneMeow again and give your thoughts? Assume that he didn't hammer. Does he still look town? Let's say the lynch is between Hopeless and Jay. Who do you choose? Why does that person look scummy compared to the other one? | ||
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So you're convinced I'm scum, and you keep affirming that your check on Aqua might not be valid cuz Aqua could be godfather. Make sure you post your reads on LoneMeow, Hopeless and Coag at a minimum before the end of the day, at the very latest before the end of N3. Preferably, look at Aqua and Oats as well. | ||
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As the most townie person here your thoughts are really important. Thankfully I think you won't be killed N3 because scum has to get rid of the cop. However it's super important that you get your reads out. What are your thoughts on LoneMeow, Hopeless right now? Since you're our resident meta expert on Coag, do you still think he is town (D2 lynch results aside)? Any thoughts on Jay? | ||
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On February 14 2014 17:22 LoneMeow wrote: Actually, now that I went back and checked the timing of things Aquanim looks very town for the D1 push on JonnyLaw, far more than I originally thought. When he made this big push to get JonnyLaw lynched the votes, if I'm not mistaken, were like this: Jaybrundage ( 3 ) : JonnyLaw ( 3 ) : Alakaslam ( 0 ) : Sidesprang ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster suki ( 1 ) : Koshi ( 1 ) : Balla24 ( 0 ) : Aquanim ( 0 ) : There's always a slight chance it was a bus given how JonnyLaw was playing and how much suspicion he was getting, but I'd say that he looks town enough for now. Now comment on Hopeless, please. At the end of Day 2 you said Coag's meta makes him really town. What are your thoughts on him right now? | ||
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Oats you can also be a Lord, or perhaps a Duke? The Royal family thanks you for your reply and your service to the Kingdom. | ||
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He's way more active here than in his scum game. Also just before it he posted a picture of Aragorn charging. I think his attitude with the game is townie. His Day 3 I've already explained feels really townie to me. Points against him are that he was late on the Jonny lynch, he didn't talk about sidesprang Day 2, and in Day 2 he was convinced I was scum then conveniently forgot about me and went after Coag. He's already explained Day 2 that he lost interest in the game, which I think is null. If we were going by contributions I think he looks better than LoneMeow because LoneMeow was defending sidesprang. He looks better than Coag who hasn't done anything. But if we go by meta and D3, Hopeless looks town. Again, his singling me out as the only scum and listing everyone as town is really really town to me. | ||
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Day 2 he posted a big case on me with thought-out points, which felt townie to me. Also, just before it he posted a picture of Aragorn charging. I took out the comment about the case because I felt it wasn't that strong of a point.. Although the fact that Hopeless made a big case in the first place is townie I think. | ||
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What about Jay, Aqua? I still want LoneMeow to give his reads on you and coag too. | ||
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Look at LoneMeow | ||
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No hard feelings on any of you :> Now pull it together for the win! | ||
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I didn't mean it! I really thought you both were scum~~~ | ||
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I like to think that if I had survived into the next day, I would have pushed Coag like you guys did because he basically stopped playing and contributing, which is completely his scum meta. | ||
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It felt like people just had this image of my scum being totally godlike when if you look at how I played these last three town games vs the scum game people are referring to, my playstyle, attitude etc are completely different. But of course when I try to explain that the response was 'well, suki knows these things about her play so she can compensate for it' so it felt like fighting a losing battle. | ||
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On February 18 2014 07:59 LoneMeow wrote: I think some wise coach once told me to not bother too much defending and instead just post as much analysis as possible. Even if it does not save you it will be useful to the remaining townies after your flip. That's what I tried to do. Unfortunately I suck too much at analysis to help anyone after my death. Hah. | ||
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Half of the logs are Prome complaining that his internet sucks. The other half is me saying THIS GUY TOTES SCUM, prome asking 'why?' and me saying 'I don't know BLAGHH STOP ASKING HARD QUESTIONS' | ||
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Your over-eagerness to push a case on Koshi seemed out of character for you and you kept on exaggerating how scummy Koshi looked (and eventually pulled Balla in and called them a scum team). It was hard to believe that you seriously thought that this was true and felt too forced. So really at the beginning it was a total gut feeling thing. Later on, there were several things that I noticed that just felt off to me... 1. You saying you would scum hunt at the beginning, post a giant case on koshi, and then for the rest of the day you barely pushed anyone. 2. You weren't pressuring people, asking them questions etc. 3. You seemed much more defensive. I'm wondering if being blue this game changed your outlook to care more about survival because I had this meta read on you that if you were town you wouldn't care about people's cases on you and would just counter-pressure. Probably those were the biggest things. If it's any consolation to you, I'm actually really really good at pushing lynches against blue roles when I'm town -_-; If you could comment on these points I'd really like to hear your thoughts because I want to improve and not push bad tunnels in the future. | ||
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Just a lot of the things that Jay was doing was different from last game, and when I asked myself 'Why is it different?' it was really hard to think that he had consciously made this change as an improvement to his town game. That's why I was so vehement on lynching him. | ||
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On February 18 2014 12:40 Balla24 wrote: I think this explains it: "Ah. My notes from my previous game say: "If I roll town, be more decisive. Push harder. Try not to be so wishy washy and careless." What that translates to for me is I will be tunneling people and really trying to push their buttons, even if my case isn't the best. In my previous game I also played a bit too careless because I wasn't worried about getting killed (since I was just a VT). I need to tighten up my game a bit more. " -suki Yes, this was what I had in mind. However I did not mean that I was going to tunnel someone into the ground without justification. I really did feel like Jay (and LoneMeow on Day 3) were scum and so I was playing my hardest to convince town and justify and provide reads. I was really trying my best. One of the big differences in this game compared to the others is that I actually did have scum reads and wasn't completely lost with seeing everyone as town. Having actual reads really contributed to my attitude and behaviour this game in comparison to our previous games. | ||
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I was looking at jay's contributions to the thread and his attitude more than anything else. | ||
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I didn't care about his defenses against your guys pressure? But he didn't really do anything to address the points that I was bringing up myself. | ||
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I mean, I totally was ready to back off of Jay but he never gave me any reason to. In Day 3 I jumped on Jay with what I thought was a slam dunk case and when he replied with such great reasoning I backed off instantly right? Day 1 I would have been the same if Jay had only responded the way I felt he would respond if he were town. Obviously there's an element of ego and an element of 'this is the way the game should be played' but that's how this game is played :o | ||
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that's the attitude I felt. | ||
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I mean that explains it right? His attitude was one of survival and defense rather than scum hunting, which was pretty much the whole reason I was on his case to begin with. His survival attitude ended up not being because he was scum but it's something that I do find very scummy. | ||
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So I do feel bad Jay, for the tunnel. I'm justifying my thoughts here now, but I was the only person to think you were scummy so right now I feel like I played poorly and I'm just giving you my thoughts so you know where I was coming from. I'd love to hear your thoughts | ||
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If he thought you were town he wouldn't have told me.And yeah, I thought you would be carefree, like a majestic buck running through the sunny bright glades, that exact picture. So your play this game being more low key and survival-oriented really stuck out to me. | ||
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I couldn't follow that line of thought so I dismissed it. lol I still cant follow it and I don't know if I want to put the effort in to try hahaha. | ||
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I didn't really care about how accurate my accusation was I just thought you were sheeping and wanted to post an awesome sheep picture No apologies because I found it completely hilarious. Especially later when Balla called me out by reposting that picture against me. I laughed so hard :D | ||
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On February 18 2014 16:21 jaybrundage wrote: I know you were town and all suki but.... MISSION COMPLETED!! ACHIVEMENT UNLOCKED I laughed :D | ||
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