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On February 06 2014 09:09 Balla24 wrote: fuck this game let's go full themed non try hard retardedly unbalanced game for funsies, tonight has me laughing so hard that i'm not even motivated to play a serious game hahaha
I claim Harry Potter.
EDIT: LOL I JUST HEARD SIDESPRANG'S COACH WAS HOLYFLARE FUCK I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING. wait my coach was holyflare? news to me
EDIT: I'm fine to /out and /replace again in favour of OdinOfPergo, if he'd like a starting slot.
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hihi
@jaybrundage: You've made a big long case about how Koshi would be excited to roll town and not happy if he rolled scum again, which I agree with as far as it goes.
However, I'm unconvinced by your evidence that Koshi is in fact unexcited by this game. Not posting with capslock enabled doesn't prove much about his enthusiasm.
Is there anything else about Koshi's filter and play which makes you think he's not excited to be in this game?
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On February 07 2014 08:57 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 08:56 Aquanim wrote: hihi
@jaybrundage: You've made a big long case about how Koshi would be excited to roll town and not happy if he rolled scum again, which I agree with as far as it goes.
However, I'm unconvinced by your evidence that Koshi is in fact unexcited by this game. Not posting with capslock enabled doesn't prove much about his enthusiasm.
Is there anything else about Koshi's filter and play which makes you think he's not excited to be in this game? His post which I analyzed when he said that I feel "off" Is a very scummy post as well. That's not really what I asked.
I wanted to know whether there are any other posts, or patterns in posts, or anything about Koshi which makes you think that he's not excited to be playing this game - since your justification for that view seems a little shallow so far to me.
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On February 07 2014 09:07 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 09:04 Aquanim wrote:On February 07 2014 08:57 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 08:56 Aquanim wrote: hihi
@jaybrundage: You've made a big long case about how Koshi would be excited to roll town and not happy if he rolled scum again, which I agree with as far as it goes.
However, I'm unconvinced by your evidence that Koshi is in fact unexcited by this game. Not posting with capslock enabled doesn't prove much about his enthusiasm.
Is there anything else about Koshi's filter and play which makes you think he's not excited to be in this game? His post which I analyzed when he said that I feel "off" Is a very scummy post as well. That's not really what I asked. I wanted to know whether there are any other posts, or patterns in posts, or anything about Koshi which makes you think that he's not excited to be playing this game - since your justification for that view seems a little shallow so far to me. What I posted in my big case. Is what I feel was relevant in the part of Koshi not being excited enough. So yes that's it. That's not the only thing that makes him scummy though. Look at how he has no real read on me. Even tho he voted me and I'm pressuring the shit out of him. He never stated whether he thought i was scum or town. Similar to last game and how Oats was pressuring him early on. And he never really was concrete on any read on Oats. What do you think of Ball and Koshi atm? Balla - first post and vote for me obviously a pre-game concoction, duly ignored - pressure on jayb and others seems reasonable enough, he's not being shy about his opinions.
Koshi - gut says town just based on the attitude he's displayed so far, but I hope to see more content
I can kind of see why they both voted for you (jay) here - like, I don't think that post inherently makes you scum, but I can understand how their knee-jerk reaction was to vote you for it. Bland, self-deprecating and non-scum-hunting-related posts often draw knee-jerk reactions like that.
tl;dr leaning town on balla, closer to null on koshi
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@suki: What is your read on jayB and koshi, in the light of their little contretemps?
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never mind, looks like you answered that question already. my bad
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New question @suki: What about Balla's posts changed your mind about him between here:
On February 07 2014 07:19 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:18 jaybrundage wrote: ##Vote Balla
This guy is thinking nothing like me this game : / ##unvote ##vote Ballalegit. and here:
On February 07 2014 08:54 suki wrote: King Balla is my King, chosen by the almighty God of Mafia Artanis[Xp] himself.
His Name shall not by tainted by scummy accusations.
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hi Hopeless. Any impressions of the thread so far? Anything at all really, I just want to have a chat.
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On February 07 2014 10:40 Hopeless1der wrote: They aren't scummy yet. But its similar to how people who drone on incessantly about policy or setup speculation are more likely to be scum. Continuing to talk about the previous game without drawing conclusions about what it means in this game is scummy. Agree/Disagree?
i.e. I brought it up because I saw it becoming a circlejerk I don't disagree with your point Hopeless but I think discussing it much further is counterproductive, we'll just end up debating policy about policy... which is even worse.
Did jayb's case on Koshi convince you at all?
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On February 07 2014 10:46 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 10:44 Aquanim wrote:On February 07 2014 10:40 Hopeless1der wrote: They aren't scummy yet. But its similar to how people who drone on incessantly about policy or setup speculation are more likely to be scum. Continuing to talk about the previous game without drawing conclusions about what it means in this game is scummy. Agree/Disagree?
i.e. I brought it up because I saw it becoming a circlejerk I don't disagree with your point Hopeless but I think discussing it much further is counterproductive, we'll just end up debating policy about policy... which is even worse. Did jayb's case on Koshi convince you at all? The only case to be made on Koshi is going to be based on his activity, especially around the lynch. Town Koshi gives a shit and makes moves. Scum Koshi aims to sit back and take credit. Fair enough. Anything you'd like to discuss with me? (Catch up with the thread first, by all means.)
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On February 07 2014 11:21 Oatsmaster wrote: read on JayB Aqua? If hes town then who is most likely scum?
I reckon JayB is probably the most likely to flip scum so far. I really didn't like the feel of his case on Koshi:
- the point about Koshi's enthusiasm correlated with his alignment strikes me as the kind of thing a scum would jump on, but wouldn't convince a townie jayB. Particularly since he's based it all on Koshi's first post (which didn't read as particularly enthusiastic, or unenthusiastic, to me) and couldn't back it up with anything else.
- His only other reason why Koshi is scum is that Koshi had a gut scum read on one of jayB's posts, as far as I can tell. Which is a pretty thin reason to scumread someone, and is reflective of a mentality which is more worried about how he looks than about catching scum.
For reference, it's not the fact that he made a case so early that makes me scumread him, it's the content of the case.
That being said, I'd prefer to give him a chance to redeem himself rather than driving some wagon of justice this early.
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What about you Oats, what's your read on him?
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On February 07 2014 11:54 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 11:51 Balla24 wrote: Are you guys seriously pushing jay right now?
There's really nothing new. Everybody knows he's made some scummy decisions. He's been pressured to no end, no reason to keep pushing him now because we know almost everything about him. Let him play the game, watch him to see if he redeems himself, but there's no reason to keep pushing him unless there is NEW information.
Let him play unpressed, see what happens. Balla talk to me why do you think my push on Koshi is scummy. I think while it isn't the most amazing case. It is after all an early day 1 case. And I think alot of things I said are completely true. Can you specify exactly which of the things you said you think are completely true?
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Hey guys I'd like to discuss Suki
Filter in the original game as town: Asks lots of questions, discusses reads, VERY direct
Filter in this game: Mostly trolly one-liners about "King" Balla, doesn't talk much about reads unless directly asked, is not asking many questions.
I haven't thoroughly meta-d Suki but I'm really feeling a serious gap in her attitude between the two games.
I can't see any reason in Suki's filter to think she is town so far. Does anyone else have any?
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On February 07 2014 12:23 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 12:15 Aquanim wrote:Hey guys I'd like to discuss SukiFilter in the original game as town: Asks lots of questions, discusses reads, VERY direct Filter in this game: Mostly trolly one-liners about "King" Balla, doesn't talk much about reads unless directly asked, is not asking many questions. I haven't thoroughly meta-d Suki but I'm really feeling a serious gap in her attitude between the two games. I can't see any reason in Suki's filter to think she is town so far. Does anyone else have any? Are you basing your scum read on Suki just off meta atm ? I don't think acting another way from one game to another is a good way to meta someone, especially when the person have scumgames you can read. She was scum in Mafia Newbie Mafia LI I think, prolly better to start there. I played in that game and dont remember to much of the meta, other than she was good :S It's a kind of half-meta case, in that her play so far does not seem to be directed towards scumhunting, and I can verify that she is capable and willing to direct her play towards scumhunting by checking a previous town game. The argument holds without any need to refer to her scumgames, though I would take a look at it if I were to start seriously pushing for her lynch. For now I want to discuss her play so far.
Putting aside your opinion of my methods, what's your read on suki so far?
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On February 07 2014 12:33 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 12:30 Aquanim wrote:On February 07 2014 12:23 sidesprang wrote:On February 07 2014 12:15 Aquanim wrote:Hey guys I'd like to discuss SukiFilter in the original game as town: Asks lots of questions, discusses reads, VERY direct Filter in this game: Mostly trolly one-liners about "King" Balla, doesn't talk much about reads unless directly asked, is not asking many questions. I haven't thoroughly meta-d Suki but I'm really feeling a serious gap in her attitude between the two games. I can't see any reason in Suki's filter to think she is town so far. Does anyone else have any? Are you basing your scum read on Suki just off meta atm ? I don't think acting another way from one game to another is a good way to meta someone, especially when the person have scumgames you can read. She was scum in Mafia Newbie Mafia LI I think, prolly better to start there. I played in that game and dont remember to much of the meta, other than she was good :S It's a kind of half-meta case, in that her play so far does not seem to be directed towards scumhunting, and I can verify that she is capable and willing to direct her play towards scumhunting by checking a previous town game. The argument holds without any need to refer to her scumgames, though I would take a look at it if I were to start seriously pushing for her lynch. For now I want to discuss her play so far. Putting aside your opinion of my methods, what's your read on suki so far? Just from memory, she scum hunts as scum and her scumgame resembles her towngame. Neither of which resemble this game at all. I've never seen her this trolly and happy, but that just be because of the way the game opened, how I opened etc. We know each other somewhat out of mafia, so it totally fits with her personality, but I can't compare this game to any of her previous games. Essentially, her scumgame doesn't resemble this at all, so your meta argument I don't believe holds true. We'll see how she follows up. Whether her play here resembles her scumgame isn't the point. Scumgames change - towngames tend not to as much.
Hell, the meta wasn't really the point at all - it was supplementary to the argument. The point is that Suki has done very little that I think would aid her in making reads on anyone, if she were town.
That being said, if you think that this more relaxed/trolly posture from a town Suki is possible based on your personal knowledge, I'll take that into consideration.
I definitely want to see what Suki has to say about the point Oats has raised.
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@jayb: Do you think it's impossible or unlikely that a town Koshi would have a gut read on you which he is unwilling or unable to state more precisely than that he thinks you feel "off"?
I know in previous games I've had gut reads on people's posts where I had difficulty saying exactly what I didn't like about them, but was certain there was something weird.
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@Balla's thoughts on JonnyLaw:
Your first point I'm not sold on, since the post of yours which he quoted did contain some reference to the probability stuff: "...I am clearly 2.5% less likely to be scum than he is". Sure, there may have been actual content in your post too, but calling out your continuing usage of your mathematical mumbo-jumbo isn't too bad from him. I don't see how finding one of your later trolly posts to be funny is too inconsistent with that, either.
Jonny indeed has a lot of irrelevant posts, that's true.
I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at regarding Jonny "picking" at things, could you elaborate on this some more?
As for him not reading the thread, people make mistakes sometimes.
Conclusion: some interesting points raised but nothing which draws me much away from null on jonny.
also weary is not the same thing as wary
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On February 07 2014 14:08 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 13:57 Aquanim wrote: @Balla's thoughts on JonnyLaw:
Your first point I'm not sold on, since the post of yours which he quoted did contain some reference to the probability stuff: "...I am clearly 2.5% less likely to be scum than he is". Sure, there may have been actual content in your post too, but calling out your continuing usage of your mathematical mumbo-jumbo isn't too bad from him. I don't see how finding one of your later trolly posts to be funny is too inconsistent with that, either.
Jonny indeed has a lot of irrelevant posts, that's true.
I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at regarding Jonny "picking" at things, could you elaborate on this some more?
As for him not reading the thread, people make mistakes sometimes.
Conclusion: some interesting points raised but nothing which draws me much away from null on jonny.
also weary is not the same thing as wary The thing is completely ignoring it just because it has a joke about it is silly. Saying it's distracting is also silly, considering it was again, the first scum-hunty post of the game. I find it very inconsistent, but we will agree to disagree here haha. Jonny LOVES LOVES LOVES to pick at people making excuses for their play. Did you look at the quotes in the spoilers. Those are from his 2 recent town games. He picks at VE for "making excuses already" and goes as far as to vote for it super super super early. In the other game, he picks at 2 different people for making excuses like that. Goes so far as to say he would kill one of them for it. In his scumgame, he says Mocsta (his scummate) is making excuses, but only says it "could be scummy". Pretty much the same thing he did here in regards to jay "it's scummy but does that make him scum?". This is pretty big to me. There wasn't anything in your post addressed to him, I see no reason for him to respond to the content there really. As such I don't find it suspicious that he only responded to the trolly part.
I see what you're getting at now with the picking at excuses thing. As an association case I would not really put any weight on it until one of them flips, though.
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We do, however, agree that there's a fair bit of useless fluff in his filter that I hope will be trimmed in the future if he's town.
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On February 07 2014 14:15 Balla24 wrote: Reasonable on the first point.
The second, it's not an association case. I'm not saying jaybrundage + jonnylaw are scum. I'm saying jonnylaw is scum on his own. So you reckon that he'd be more tolerant about peoples' failings as scum, no matter whether he's talking about his scumbuddy or a townie... yeah, I guess I could see that being true, actually.
I'd quite like to see his reply to these points.
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Hi Jonny. Do you have anything to say regarding these observations?
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@Jonny: So, if you think his case holds no merit, do you think Balla is mistaken or scum?
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hihi, anybody about and want to talk?
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Yeah, I'll be around for an hour or two before sleeping.
About Sidesprang's 'focus' on discussing your meta and defending you... do you think that's more reasonable considering that I specifically asked for opinions on my observations about you?
For that matter, do you think his analysis of your meta is accurate?
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On February 07 2014 23:21 suki wrote: @Aquanim Who do you find scummy right now? Jonny tops the list at the moment.
I feel like this response by Jonny:
On February 07 2014 16:15 JonnyLaw wrote: Why do you even want me to look at that Suki? Balla says I think his king post was funny. Am I supposed to take that seriously? I refuse to do so.
I talk to Jay about the last game. Uhhh....I felt bad for tunneling a townie so hard? I want jay to play the game and you guys start out right where I fucking left off. If he's scum (which I get to in my next post) we can lynch him.
And Balla's mad that I don't think he's paying attention and I refuse to call him "king." Yeah...what is there to say about that "case" on me.
Finishing the jay post. be back with you in a second. misinterpreted some of Balla's points and completely ignored the strongest one.
I also don't think Jonny's putting a significant amount of effort into drawing information out of the thread. I can't see any questions he's asked anyone, or any serious pressure.
may as well do this now instead of waiting till tomorrow ##Vote: JonnyLaw I really want to see this case on Balla he claims to have.
idk what to make of jayB now, gonna need to see more from him to make any solid read. Similar for sidesprang.
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On February 07 2014 23:47 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 12:15 Aquanim wrote:Hey guys I'd like to discuss SukiFilter in the original game as town: Asks lots of questions, discusses reads, VERY direct Filter in this game: Mostly trolly one-liners about "King" Balla, doesn't talk much about reads unless directly asked, is not asking many questions. I haven't thoroughly meta-d Suki but I'm really feeling a serious gap in her attitude between the two games. I can't see any reason in Suki's filter to think she is town so far. Does anyone else have any? What do you think of me currently Aqua? Has your opinion that you don't see anything to think I'm town changed? What are your conclusions about the meta case on me? I'm willing to accept that your trollier attitude at the start of the game was the result of whimsy rather than being scum. I like your attitude to the game and your pushing for information and see it as moderately towny, but I'm reserving any strong conclusions until I see you interacting directly with Sidesprang (and other persons of interest) rather than leaving questions in the thread for them to answer later, since I think dynamic interactions are far harder for scum to mimic.
My meta-read of you was only ever to illustrate the point that you were capable of playing serious, direct and straight-up town. That aspect of the case has been discussed a fair bit more than I intended.
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I'm out for the night, see you all later.
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EBWOP: "I like your current attitude to the game..." etc.
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@LoneMeow: Is there any particular reason you gave your reads on Jonny, Balla, Jay and suki here but not on anybody else?
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@JayB: So far as I can see, Jonny hasn't pushed any reads so far and I don't think he's trying to learn more about other players through his posts. Why do you think Alakaslam is a better lynch than him?
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@Oatsmaster: What's your read on Jonny at the moment?
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On February 08 2014 11:28 Oatsmaster wrote: I want to lynch sidesprang. I wont lynch alak like right now but I dont think he is town Why don't you want to lynch alak "right now" if you don't think he's town?
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On February 08 2014 11:44 Hopeless1der wrote: Because he obviously thinks sprang is town. Nowait. Fair enough. OK I'll talk to you then.
What do you think of jayB's case above on Alak? How does it reflect on Alak and jayB to you?
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On February 08 2014 12:09 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 11:47 Aquanim wrote:On February 08 2014 11:44 Hopeless1der wrote: Because he obviously thinks sprang is town. Nowait. Fair enough. OK I'll talk to you then. What do you think of jayB's case above on Alak? How does it reflect on Alak and jayB to you? It certainly makes jayb look better. Scummy working his way back to null for alak due to general lurkiness. You reckon? As cases go, I think his case on Alak is very sketchy.
I don't think it's unreasonable for Alak to be pointing out that jayB is not in fact going for a lurker policy lynch, like jayB said he might. It's not like Alak is calling for a jayB lynch based on that one point, he's just pointing it out. Furthermore, it's obvious that Alak was still reading through the thread at that point so jayB's observation that
If anything Alakaslam would be reading the thread and seeing if I was pushing my scum suspect and scum hunting. doesn't convince me at all.
Also, I can't help but notice that (IIRC) every case jayB has made so far this game has been on somebody who attacked him first. Not 100% scum-indicative on its own, but certainly enough to raise my eyebrows.
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On February 08 2014 12:24 Hopeless1der wrote: i hadnt noticed the omgus trend. that is interesting to note. The thought has crossed my mind though that straight-up paranoid OMGUS is something I've seen from townies in the past too just as much as scum.
It is indeed interesting and I intend to think about it some more.
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On February 08 2014 12:30 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 12:22 Aquanim wrote:On February 08 2014 12:09 Hopeless1der wrote:On February 08 2014 11:47 Aquanim wrote:On February 08 2014 11:44 Hopeless1der wrote: Because he obviously thinks sprang is town. Nowait. Fair enough. OK I'll talk to you then. What do you think of jayB's case above on Alak? How does it reflect on Alak and jayB to you? It certainly makes jayb look better. Scummy working his way back to null for alak due to general lurkiness. You reckon? As cases go, I think his case on Alak is very sketchy. I don't think it's unreasonable for Alak to be pointing out that jayB is not in fact going for a lurker policy lynch, like jayB said he might. It's not like Alak is calling for a jayB lynch based on that one point, he's just pointing it out. Furthermore, it's obvious that Alak was still reading through the thread at that point so jayB's observation that If anything Alakaslam would be reading the thread and seeing if I was pushing my scum suspect and scum hunting. doesn't convince me at all. Also, I can't help but notice that (IIRC) every case jayB has made so far this game has been on somebody who attacked him first. Not 100% scum-indicative on its own, but certainly enough to raise my eyebrows. I was actually unsure if Alakaslam had read the full thread. But in this quote he says he was going to try some filters. So I would assume he would be caught up to the thread. Or why would he be reading filters with out context? Also the vast majority of people have called me scum in this game so far. So not much of an accomplishment. Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 10:03 Alakaslam wrote: I have work folks. Yes I would be unhappy if I was lynched.
That being said @suki: you appear to have "gotten better" as has Balla24 but it just doesn't strike me as the best entrance. I may be biased through being tired and a time crunch.
I am kind of fighting a pregame bias that Jaybrundage is scum because last game I was CONVINCED he was scum and !what! He was almost made innocent child.
Going to try some filters now. Yeah OK let me rephrase that. Your only point against Alakaslam (re. lurker policy lynch), and one of your only two points against Koshi (re. "you feel off" or whatever it was) were directly related to them raising points against you.
There's plenty of material in the thread which isn't people talking about you, but your cases have mostly ignored that material.
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EBWOP: And personally, given that Alakaslam threw it out as an observation rather than trying to build a serious case on it, I have no problem with him raising the point that you weren't policy lynching him.
If Alakaslam were building a complete argument that you were scummy and putting down a vote, I'd expect to see reference to the rest of your filter. Since he wasn't, I don't expect it.
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On February 08 2014 12:41 suki wrote: Are all you people on the fence about Jay reading this?
If you still think this is coming from a town Jay please speak up and tell me my case on him isn't any good. My current opinion on Jay is "don't like his play so far, but he is at least posting cases and appears to give a damn about the game. My read on him will improve with time, so I'd prefer to lynch Jonny who's done f-all and does not appear to give a damn about finding scum."
Do you have a single, unified case on Jay? If so I couldn't find it.
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On February 08 2014 12:54 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 12:49 Aquanim wrote:On February 08 2014 12:41 suki wrote: Are all you people on the fence about Jay reading this?
If you still think this is coming from a town Jay please speak up and tell me my case on him isn't any good. My current opinion on Jay is "don't like his play so far, but he is at least posting cases and appears to give a damn about the game. My read on him will improve with time, so I'd prefer to lynch Jonny who's done f-all and does not appear to give a damn about finding scum." Do you have a single, unified case on Jay? If so I couldn't find it. Please do tell where he is posting cases. Well there were his cases on Koshi and Alakaslam. I didn't say they were good cases, but they exist. He committed to at least two reads and gave some reasons.
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Jay, if you have a case why Suki is scum I would like to see it.
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@suki: Who would be your second-most-preferred lynch after Jay and why?
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On February 08 2014 13:50 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 13:15 Aquanim wrote: Jay, if you have a case why Suki is scum I would like to see it. I don't have a case on Suki but twisting my words twice. And doing it one time with the sole intention of antagonizing me leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. Shes either scum tunneling me because it gives her something to do. Or town tunneling me cause she doesn't realize that it negatively effects play. Her trolling post with the sheep showed that she was trying to shit on me at the beginning. Shit flinging when she was completely wrong in the first post. Again does this seem like town play to you? What do you think Aqua Can you explain to me where Suki twisted your words? I can't see it.
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On February 08 2014 13:55 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 13:52 jaybrundage wrote: completely wrong in the first place* EBYODP O.0 wat is ebyodp I presume it's a mangled EBWOP
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Okay.
@JayB: If you take out your frusturation with the game and with certain players, who in the game at the moment do you think is most likely to flip scum and should therefore be lynched?
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EBWOP: Or Oatsmaster, for that matter.
both @Balla
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@Jonny: Can you explain to me why you think LoneMeow is scum over jayB and sidesprang?
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Have you actually read LoneMeow's posts?
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On February 08 2014 18:01 JonnyLaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 05:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is not about VE, it's about you JL. You have had Balla as top scumread all game but never tried to lynch him. Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 05:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 23 2014 05:41 JonnyLaw wrote: Activity is everything in how I read his play. Fuck, if he was active he'd make cases. If not, he's not making cases or doing anything. I don't get your point here. How many times did I say lynch Balla? You think I bussed him that hard since day 1? Even when kush could still be voted I wanted to vote balla.
I don't understand your obsession with a sentence.
So, calling him a scummy lurker for lack of activity. You didn't bus him hard. You soft bussed him. I already pointed out why his activity is closer to his scumgames than town games. Actually it pretty much matches his scumgames. So, why did you not really push your top scumread when your top townread told you his activity matches his scumgames? Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 05:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 21 2014 23:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:Like i just looked at his past games and: - town games - 19 and 23 pages of filter, a lot of oneliners, questions many people about his concerns, is clearly trying to find out what people think about what he thinks is important
- scum game - 7 pages of filter, more big irrelevant posts that are inclined to talk about what X thinks of Y and how it's right/wrong. no real pushing of his own ideas.
If i don't even think about the motivation behind Balla's posts in this game and just look at what he has said it looks exactly like he played mafia and nothing like his town play to me. Here, this dude is your fucking top scumread and you have nothing to say about this post JL. And i want to know why? Then I pushed jayb into oblivion last game. What do you say? Is what you're trying to say here that you don't want to push jayB because you were wrong about him in a previous game? I don't understand.
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On February 08 2014 18:02 JonnyLaw wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 17:59 Aquanim wrote: Have you actually read LoneMeow's posts? I read the thread then reread the filters that stook out to me. It was suki, jayb and koshi. So you're saying you've scumread LoneMeow without actually looking at his posts, just waving your hand and say he's "lurking"?
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On February 08 2014 18:08 JonnyLaw wrote: In the first two hours of the game? Yeah. Suki and Balla pushed way too hard. Sure, maybe they did. Let me rephrase. I am asking you whether or not you think JayB is scum now.
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On February 08 2014 18:23 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 18:09 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 08 2014 18:08 Aquanim wrote:On February 08 2014 18:02 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 08 2014 17:59 Aquanim wrote: Have you actually read LoneMeow's posts? I read the thread then reread the filters that stook out to me. It was suki, jayb and koshi. So you're saying you've scumread LoneMeow without actually looking at his posts, just waving your hand and say he's "lurking"? No, I read his posts and saw nothing of merit. So if you think there's "nothing of merit" why don't you say that instead of saying "lurking"? ...I don't think he's coming back.
What do you think of his case on Koshi? And the rest of our exchange on the previous page.
Personally, I'm not impressed one bit.
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When you have a few minutes Alakaslam could you take a look at Jonny's posts on the last page and tell me what you think? About his case on Koshi, and just in general the read you get on Jonny from them.
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Why JonnyLaw is scum, and the best lynch today
1) He is not interested in talking with other people to find their alignments.
Jonny did ask a few questions but they seemed pretty pointless to me: + Show Spoiler +On February 07 2014 07:21 JonnyLaw wrote: Sigh...Jayb man.
You called balla super townie for entering the thread with a vote last game. Are you sheeping your "town playstyles" again?
On February 07 2014 07:25 JonnyLaw wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote: @jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
@suki, that implies that you think jaybrundage is town, even though I am clearly 2.5% less likely to be scum than he is. I appreciate the effort you put into that post man. It's funny but you're trying to force it into being more distracting than Koshi's post last game. What the fuck? On February 07 2014 07:44 JonnyLaw wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:42 Koshi wrote:On February 07 2014 07:41 JonnyLaw wrote: Votes are like assholes in this game. Give the man a minute. It's day1 lets sit around and chat a while. What topic? I was talking about tunneling jayb. Apparently that's off topic. How about aqua. Have you played with him before? How do you feel about random votes being tossed around? et cetera. Importantly I don't think Jonny has asked anybody for their opinions/cases/whatever on anybody else, or to clarify a point he didn't understand.
He has asked pointless questions and mostly made pointless observations.
To take an example of something which would not be a pointless question, look at his town posts from the original game: + Show Spoiler +On February 04 2014 11:54 JonnyLaw wrote: Koshi's euro cakeman he's asleep i'd guess.
What did you specifically dislike about Jayb's post Suki? I see reason to dislike it but I'm interested in your opinion. On February 04 2014 12:14 JonnyLaw wrote: Jayb I do have one question.
Why did you pick SS out of everyone who hasn't done much yet? Looking at the list there are a number of other candidates. Why him in particular? On February 05 2014 10:55 JonnyLaw wrote: Jay, what did you think of Suki's case on oats? I understand you like that someone finally put hard content in the game but what's your take on her views?
2) He only made a case on somebody else when forced to by the pressure from several votes, not before.
Furthermore, Jonny's case on Koshi really feels to me like he just opened Koshi's filter and tried to spin each post in turn so that it looked scummy, rather than drawing a reasoned conclusion from Koshi's filter as a whole.
I don't feel like a townie would seriously believe that case. I'm not 100% certain that Koshi is town myself but that case doesn't convince me one bit.
3) Jonny's position on LoneMeow makes no sense.
He claims to have a scumread on LoneMeow:
On February 08 2014 17:49 JonnyLaw wrote: Uhh I called you scum? that's about it. No but I'm still not convinced. I don't have any clear town votes yet.
koshi, slam and lm for scum. koshi for content and lm slam for lurking.
rest neutral. i'm bad at finding town. i can find scum though.
even though he's barely read LM's posts:
On February 08 2014 18:02 JonnyLaw wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 17:59 Aquanim wrote: Have you actually read LoneMeow's posts? no, not really. I rushed to catch up. Words fail me. Throwing Alak and LM on his scumreads along with Koshi was really, really lazy, and reeks of somebody not taking scumhunting seriously.
4) There's also this:
On February 07 2014 23:36 Aquanim wrote:I feel like this response by Jonny: Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 16:15 JonnyLaw wrote: Why do you even want me to look at that Suki? Balla says I think his king post was funny. Am I supposed to take that seriously? I refuse to do so.
I talk to Jay about the last game. Uhhh....I felt bad for tunneling a townie so hard? I want jay to play the game and you guys start out right where I fucking left off. If he's scum (which I get to in my next post) we can lynch him.
And Balla's mad that I don't think he's paying attention and I refuse to call him "king." Yeah...what is there to say about that "case" on me.
Finishing the jay post. be back with you in a second. misinterpreted some of Balla's points and completely ignored the strongest one.
If y'all aren't voting for JonnyLaw when I wake up tomorrow morning, you'd better have a damn good reason.
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I'll be around a little while longer before I head off. Should be around for an hour or so before the lynch, hopefully.
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On February 08 2014 22:00 Koshi wrote: Let's bask in glory with a day 1 scum lynch aqua. This lynch certainly feels good so far. I'm not gonna break out the party hats until he flips tho.
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On February 08 2014 22:04 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 22:03 Aquanim wrote:On February 08 2014 22:00 Koshi wrote: Let's bask in glory with a day 1 scum lynch aqua. This lynch certainly feels good so far. I'm not gonna break out the party hats until he flips tho. Yeah, I think if he flips scum we gonna have to lynch Oats. I'm not sure I followed that. There's no mention of Oats in Jonny's filter at all so I assume you're talking about Oats' read on Jonny... which is indecisive, but I don't see a smoking gun there either.
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In any case though, tomorrow's lynch is tomorrow's problem.
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On February 09 2014 04:11 suki wrote: Aqua was like 'Jay has been contributing' and when I called him out and asked him what Jay's contributions were Aqua just kinda shrugged it off. Look, the thing with analysing Jay's contributions to this game is that you have to forget about the question "Is this a good contribution?" and ask the question "Is this a contribution he believes?".
His case on Koshi at the start was, I agree, almost completely without merit in terms of persuading me to vote for Koshi. Indeed, it's so unconvincing that I do have serious doubts about his alignment. Same for his reasons for voting Alakaslam. But the fact remains that he did vote for people, and made an argument why other people should vote for them too. And that's a contribution.
The real question I'm asking myself here is "Is it possible Jay is a townie who in fact believes the cases he's made and is honestly trying to push lynches on who he believes is scum?". To which my answer is "maybe". And I'm a fair bit more confident than "maybe" about Jonny.
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On February 09 2014 06:23 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2014 06:21 Aquanim wrote:On February 09 2014 04:11 suki wrote: Aqua was like 'Jay has been contributing' and when I called him out and asked him what Jay's contributions were Aqua just kinda shrugged it off. Look, the thing with analysing Jay's contributions to this game is that you have to forget about the question "Is this a good contribution?" and ask the question "Is this a contribution he believes?". His case on Koshi at the start was, I agree, almost completely without merit in terms of persuading me to vote for Koshi. Indeed, it's so unconvincing that I do have serious doubts about his alignment. Same for his reasons for voting Alakaslam. But the fact remains that he did vote for people, and made an argument why other people should vote for them too. And that's a contribution. The real question I'm asking myself here is "Is it possible Jay is a townie who in fact believes the cases he's made and is honestly trying to push lynches on who he believes is scum?". To which my answer is "maybe". And I'm a fair bit more confident than "maybe" about Jonny. Jay's vote is on me right now. How do you explain that. He got mad at you, voted you, then AFKd.
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On February 09 2014 06:32 Koshi wrote: guis? the guy who has been calling me 47 hours scum jsut told me I am going to be sad when he is lynched.
On February 09 2014 06:32 Koshi wrote: Because he is "town" ... ... huh.
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Nono I understand it now. It was a satisfied "huh".
e.g. "Huh, would you look at that."
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EBWOP: No question marks.
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On February 09 2014 06:27 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2014 06:24 Aquanim wrote: The real question I'm asking myself here is "Is it possible Jay is a townie who in fact believes the cases he's made and is honestly trying to push lynches on who he believes is scum?". To which my answer is "maybe". The answer is no. He said Koshi was scum, refused to provide a read. Then later came back and said Koshi is null. He voted slam as basically a policy lynch. He voted me as an OMGUS. He's not pushing lynches and getting reads from him is like pulling teeth. He gave his reason for his read on Koshi. I reckon it was a bad reason and probably the only reason he believes it (if he does) is that Koshi had just voted for him. And I don't see how changing his mind later about that is scummy.
As for his Alakaslam vote... I can think of a couple words to describe this reason for voting Alak, but I don't see how you can describe it as policy specifically. Can you explain this to me?
On February 08 2014 11:19 jaybrundage wrote:I don't like this post. Alakaslam looks like he is thinking about calling me out as scum. But the way he does it is all wrong. I made this post and I said how I wouldn't give as much advice and just policy lynch lurkers. So he takes it to the extreme. This is the only post I believe from memory that I said anything about policy lynching lurkers. And out of my entire filter he picks it out and starts talking about how if i'm advocating policy lynches then I should be following thru or my motives are questioned (that I would be scummy.) But this isn't how a townie should be thinking. A townie should be going after there scum reads and then if that doesn't pan out go for a scummy lurker or lurker lynch. I had made a case on Koshi and a push on him. If anything Alakaslam would be reading the thread and seeing if I was pushing my scum suspect and scum hunting. However he acts like the one post I mention about policy lynching lurkers means that's solely what I should be doing. ##Unvote ##Vote AlakaslamShow nested quote +On February 08 2014 10:16 Alakaslam wrote:On February 07 2014 07:36 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:28 suki wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote: @jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
Legitimate question. Jay, since you're 0.29% more likely to be scum than me, and since you were the top 2 Day 1 lynch in the previous game, how do you plan to play differently in order to avoid being targeted for lynch this game? It might be a rough game. I tryharded the shit out of last game. And jonny wanted to lynch me cause I was "acting" like town. I guess the first thing would be too not give as much advice this game. 1. Because I said it last game. 2. Because now I can just policy lynch lurkers cause they have been warned :D I want to just say scum hunt more. But its not easy too early day 1. Maybe more pressure less advice for the early day. Thing about lurker lynches. You can advocate them but if you don't follow through your motives should be questioned... Has Jaybrundage voted for me yet? ... Who is he voting? If anyone has been lurking I have been, he should be pushing me according to this policy. More as I feel the desire to comment on it.
As for his vote on you, I can see how you might well have pissed him off. Which is again not a great reason to vote someone, but it happens.
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On February 09 2014 06:54 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2014 06:28 Koshi wrote:On February 09 2014 06:27 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 09 2014 06:26 Koshi wrote: Talk more about Koshi pls Jonny.
I like being very confirmed town when you die. I cant wait to see the rage when I flip Koshi. You're gonna be a sad man. We get this right? We ALL GET IT RIGHT? What? he's not saying you're confirmed town, he's saying you're going to be sad when he flips green. How is this a slip at all? The question is "why would Koshi be sad when Jonny flips town, if Koshi is scum like Jonny has been claiming?"
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hihi
anyone want to have a chat?
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On February 09 2014 12:31 jaybrundage wrote:Aquanim. I would like to talk mmmate. What do you think of Suki? Do you have any opinion on if we should try to get the vig to shoot someone via vote or something similar. What do you think of Coag wanting Vig to shoot him. oh hey I wandered off to play dota, sorry
On Suki: Trolly and more importantly content-free start to the game set off serious alarm bells for me at the time. I'm not yet sure how much weight to give that phase of the game as opposed to her greater amount of content later.
Hopeless said it very well here:
On February 09 2014 07:28 Hopeless1der wrote: I agree that suki hasnt been playing scummy but I still have this nagging feeling about her. I'll try to look into why later tonight. Suki's been contributing her thoughts to the thread and trying to push a lynch but... something feels a little weird.
I should have a better thought-out opinion on Suki later.
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If we have a vigilante, they can do what they please. I have better things to do than direct blue roles.
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Coag wanting a vigilante to shoot him is... bizarre, I'm not sure what to make of that. That slot wouldn't be a bad vigilante shot (alak and Coag aren't the most readable of players, and replacement slots are annoying at best), but calling for a shot on himself is some weird shit. tl;dr I have no idea.
Do you have any theories about Coag asking for a shot on himself? Town/scum motivations for it?
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These aren't my best thought-out reads ever, but I have some faith that if I get shot here you guys will be fine anyway.
On Suki: + Show Spoiler +Points for town: - Pushed scumreads (Sidesprang, JayB) in the thread
- Seems to be trying to draw information into the thread e.g. here, here
Both of these she did as scum in LI I guess, but I'd be deeply suspicious if they weren't here. Moving on.
- Scumread on JayB was kind of reasonable, his cases on Koshi and Alak definitely looked incredibly sketchy
- Posts feel... well, natural. Suki seemed genuinely aggreived that the thread sentiment was against her point of view. (e.g. here, here)
Points for scum: - Pushed a different wagon to a scum lynch. Pretty basic one here.
- Didn't back off jayB even after the blue soft-claim.
Well, to be honest, those lists didn't help me much. Anyway... I don't feel like the blue-claim argument is a slam-dunk on Suki. In Newbie XXXI I remember pushing a lynch on Oatsmaster, and continuing to push it after he straight-up claimed doctor because I didn't believe him. I was mislynched there, for that among other reasons. Back to the point - I think it's a valid point against Suki but not conclusive. Conclusion: Still not entirely convinced either way, though I have a nagging feeling that she's town. I certainly want to see lynches other than Suki at least considered tomorrow.
On Alakaslam/Coagulation: + Show Spoiler +Points for town: - Alak appeared to be putting some thought into the game: here, here
Points for scum: - Alak didn't push any cases or ask any questions really... not like he had the opportunity, though.
- Dodged discussion of the lynch, but if he was still reading... meh.
- I drank the wine in front of me re. Coag's plea to be vig-shot, and it tasted scummy. The post is weird, but it feels (marginally) more natural to me as a scum posting that to make a vigilante second-guess themselves. This is very marginal and your mileage may vary. Or, on the other hand, maybe he just wants out of the game and the post was sincere - also possible.
- This post. I have no idea what my name is doing next to Oats, LM and Sidesprang.
I would look for any more scum in Oatsmaster, Sidesprang and Hopeless, probably in that order. Maybe LoneMeow too, but I got some reasonable town-feels from him.
Everybody else I'm fairly confident is town. If JayB's blueclaim falls through maybe re-examine him.
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EBWOP: That's missing a conclusion on Coag.
Conclusion: It wouldn't suprise me if this slot flipped scum, though I am quite aware I can't read Coag to save my life and I'm hardly much better at reading Alak.
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On February 10 2014 06:54 Hopeless1der wrote: ... B) oats/me/coag must be scum because our reasons for voting jonny were shit and uninspired. I'll eat my hat sir. Are you saying here that you think this is not true applied to you specifically? Or are you eating your hat on behalf of Oats and Coag too?
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On February 10 2014 07:12 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 07:01 Balla24 wrote: So hopeless, what's up? Do you really want to say that both suki/jay are not town? More likely them than me/oats/coag. Coag is full null so the hat eating does not count for him. Oats can be included though. Still confused. Are you saying you think Oats is town? Can you explain why?
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These are the reasons for Oats being town I can see in your filter:
On February 08 2014 01:29 Hopeless1der wrote:At a skim, he goes from JayB->JonnyLaw->me->Suki->sidesprang. Can't sit still, pursuing everything he sees for the most part. He completely glances over JonnyLaw and me, but volunteered reads/reasons for the other 3. I think he's town.
On February 09 2014 02:52 Hopeless1der wrote: @Sprang its precisely how he did it that gives me a townread on Oats. I have no idea why this gives you a townread on Oats. I'd appreciate a fuller explanation.
On February 09 2014 11:12 Hopeless1der wrote: When oats voted suki he found something about betraying a scum mindset. I has likes that a lot at the time. Oats voted for suki twice, I'm not sure to which time you're referring:
On February 07 2014 12:31 Oatsmaster wrote: yeah oh shit Suki does nothing about the case JayB posted, she never comments on it at all, just says its too tryhard and therefore scummy. Oh thats bad. She literally says nothing on whether the case was good/bad or why and whether koshi is town/scum or why. Just shits on it because its early in the game?
##vote Suki This post is more-or-less accurate. In the hypothetical case where Oats is scum and Suki is town, I can easily see Oats jumping on this though.
On February 07 2014 15:11 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 15:07 suki wrote: Oats why isn't your vote on me?
Jay is objectively scummy and I'm happy where my vote is. what. I think you dont understand the meaning of 'objectively' scummy. You havent explained anything about his tryhardness making him scum or why his case was bad, or why his stuff is forced. Like half this shit is subjective. ##VOTE SUKIWAGON OF JUSTICE THIS post, however, is pretty shitty. Suki had in fact tried to explain why she saw JayB's tryhardness as scummy, and had briefly explained why the Koshi case was bad (not that it needed explaining, hence why I'm comfortable with it being brief). + Show Spoiler +On February 07 2014 13:51 suki wrote:Regarding people's concerns that I'm not scum hunting, I was just having fun at the beginning of the game. So, you can decide if I'm scum hunting or not going forward. Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 12:31 Oatsmaster wrote: yeah oh shit Suki does nothing about the case JayB posted, she never comments on it at all, just says its too tryhard and therefore scummy. Oh thats bad. She literally says nothing on whether the case was good/bad or why and whether koshi is town/scum or why. Just shits on it because its early in the game?
##vote Suki I skimmed JayB's case and didn't like it. I don't see the point in meta reading someone off of their pre-game content, or meta reading them 2 hours into the game as the game is still getting started. What threw me off was that he put in a ton of effort trying to find every little thing he could in order to paint Koshi as scum. He basically became super sure that Koshi was scum off of a weak case. He had already stated that he was going to scum hunt and he was hunting so hard it just felt forced and contrived. In other words, I didn't care about the case that he made, or the fact that it was made early, I cared about what motivations he could have had when making that case. Does it make more sense for town to hard tunnel someone off a weak case and try to make them look scummy, or does it make more sense for scum? The fact that the case was made so early is just a bonus point against a town scum-hunting mindset. In my opinion, it's more scummy to take this line of action. Thus I voted Jay. On Koshi Koshi has talked the talk. He just needs to walk the walk. His attitude is different in this game than last. He's more confident and more 'willing' to be active and contribute. If he doesn't hold up his end of the deal then he's an easy lynch. Other than that he hasn't done anything so I am waiting for his contributions when he returns.
Furthermore, making a subjective case is not a scumtell and I have no idea why Oats would think it is.
tl;dr I am not in any way convinced of Oats' towniness by his reasons for voting Suki.
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EBWOP: above @Hopeless1der if it's not obvious already
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On February 10 2014 07:41 Hopeless1der wrote: I'll quote and reply to you when I get home balla.
@aqua okay let's do it this way, we try to lynch oats and see what happens. Look, if you reckon Oats is town then convince me. I don't have some huge scumread on him at the moment, I just don't have any good reason to think he's town.
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On February 10 2014 07:51 Hopeless1der wrote: If you don't want to lynch him then why bother defending him? Fair point. I haven't decided who I want to lynch today. If it ends up being Oats we'll revisit this.
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On February 10 2014 08:04 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 08:00 Aquanim wrote:On February 10 2014 07:51 Hopeless1der wrote: If you don't want to lynch him then why bother defending him? Fair point. I haven't decided who I want to lynch today. If it ends up being Oats we'll revisit this. No it's not a fair point. I thought you and I were on the same wavelength here but apparently not lol. If another player thinks your town read of someone is not solid then you need to explain that town read. Having a town read that you can not convince others of being solid is scummy. Even if they might disagree on the reasoning, but as long as it is solid then that's where the conversation can end. Aquanim thinks your town read of Oats is no good, therefore you might be scummy for that, especially if you cant more in-depthly explain. You have a good point too, but still my conversation with Hopeless will be much more productive once I have an argument of my own, one way or another, on Oats. I'll go see about doing that now.
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@Oatsmaster: You had a scumread on Suki in the earlier part of Day 1. Why did you drop it and what is your read on Suki now?
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On February 10 2014 10:14 Balla24 wrote: So Aquanim. Which of jay and suki is town? I reckon they both are town. I'm not completely positive on either of them, though.
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On February 10 2014 10:52 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 10:49 Aquanim wrote:On February 10 2014 10:14 Balla24 wrote: So Aquanim. Which of jay and suki is town? I reckon they both are town. I'm not completely positive on either of them, though. Reasoning please. Oats, same question to you. The reasons I think Suki is town are in this post. The tl;dr version is that I feel that her case and push to get JayB lynched was genuine; it's a gut read at best.
As for JayB, he feels like a paranoid, OMGUSing townie to me. Also, that blue claim - though I'm starting to become a little doubtful of that.
My reads on these two have a lot more to do with feelings than with hard facts.
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On February 10 2014 11:17 Oatsmaster wrote: no, I think its a waste of my time to defend Jay with so many examples when you clearly dont think so and its night anyway.
... This is day 2. It's not even nighttime in your timezone. Wat?
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On February 10 2014 11:37 Oatsmaster wrote: Im not being scummy, you are being crazy.
I'm finding your reasons for this Jay read pretty damn unconvincing as well.
On February 10 2014 11:41 Oatsmaster wrote: Like me having a 'bad' townread that you agree with isnt the only thing that makes me scum is it.
Well your actual contribution to the day 1 lynch was pretty weak. I'm obliged to be at least suspicious of you for that.
(And yes, before you ask, other peoples' contributions to deciding the lynch were pretty weak too, and yes I'm suspicious of them too.)
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On February 10 2014 11:48 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 11:44 Balla24 wrote: Nope, but it is one of the things.
Don't get me wrong here, I don't agree with your town read at all. I think jay is town, but your reasoning is non-existent to me. Seriously. What do you make of his vote at the deadline? What do you make of his reaction early? What do you make of his interactions with jonny? There's so much that you seem to just be ignoring because he had a decent post explaining an afk? What is that? you agree with my townread = you think jay is town too. Also this shit is so easy to fake. If Im scum right? So I know jay is town, so I can make up so much shit. Yeah I think that's the point - the stuff you've posted so far looks a helluva lot like made-up shit.
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On February 10 2014 11:46 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 11:45 Aquanim wrote:On February 10 2014 11:37 Oatsmaster wrote: Im not being scummy, you are being crazy.
I'm finding your reasons for this Jay read pretty damn unconvincing as well. On February 10 2014 11:41 Oatsmaster wrote: Like me having a 'bad' townread that you agree with isnt the only thing that makes me scum is it.
Well your actual contribution to the day 1 lynch was pretty weak. I'm obliged to be at least suspicious of you for that. (And yes, before you ask, other peoples' contributions to deciding the lynch were pretty weak too, and yes I'm suspicious of them too.) Aquanim what do you think of my post when I responded to you about Suki and Coag. Do you think any of the reasoning I had was valid. What do you think about Oats and Hopeless1der hell throw in sidesprang in there I think you've illustrated a plausible chain of events for Suki being scum. Besides the meta point, though, I don't think there's much that is directed at convincing me that Suki *can't* be town, merely that she *could* be scum. The tunnel on you in contrast to her previous games is interesting but in different circumstances people play differently - in this case she felt the need to push your lynch hard, since the thread momentum was going in the other direction. So yeah Suki needs more attention but I don't think I want to drive a wagon on her at this point. Need to see some more.
Regarding Coag I think you've made a good point - he shouldn't really feel this depressed about the game if he's town, I don't think.
As for Oats, Hopeless and Sidesprang I think all three are possible scum. I'd prefer to talk some more with them first before I go with one over the others.
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On February 10 2014 12:26 Oatsmaster wrote: So 5 scummy people then aqua?
Yup. There's 40+ hours left in the day, I have confidence in being able to narrow it down in good time before the lynch. You have a problem with that?
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On February 10 2014 12:33 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 12:29 Aquanim wrote:On February 10 2014 12:26 Oatsmaster wrote: So 5 scummy people then aqua?
Yup. There's 40+ hours left in the day, I have confidence in being able to narrow it down in good time before the lynch. You have a problem with that? Why so defensive man. I was just clarifying. Well, I've pretty clearly mentioned five people in that post. So either you can't count or that post was intended to point out that I haven't hugely narrowed down my list of suspects.
I don't see what needs "clarifying" at all about how many people were named in that post.
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On February 10 2014 12:45 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 12:40 Aquanim wrote:On February 10 2014 12:33 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 10 2014 12:29 Aquanim wrote:On February 10 2014 12:26 Oatsmaster wrote: So 5 scummy people then aqua?
Yup. There's 40+ hours left in the day, I have confidence in being able to narrow it down in good time before the lynch. You have a problem with that? Why so defensive man. I was just clarifying. Well, I've pretty clearly mentioned five people in that post. So either you can't count or that post was intended to point out that I haven't hugely narrowed down my list of suspects. I don't see what needs "clarifying" at all about how many people were named in that post. maybe you didnt mention someone else you thought was scummy. OK so that's what you were getting at. Yes, I don't see myself lynching outside that group today, though I'd really love to see some more LoneMeow posts.
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Hey Hopeless. Do you think that if Coag replaced into a town slot night 1 after a day one scum lynch he'd give up like he has? I mean, he'd probably lurk no matter what his alignment, but I feel like he's given up on the game entirely.
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Okay next question @Hopeless: How do you feel the last two or three pages of discussion reflect on Oats?
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On February 10 2014 13:23 Hopeless1der wrote: I feel that Oats is well equipped for upsetting people. What I meant was "how do they impact your read on his alignment?"
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On February 10 2014 13:21 Oatsmaster wrote: lol what a loaded question aqua.
Why do you think my question was loaded? I don't think there's any reference to my own feelings one way or another in it.
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On February 10 2014 13:25 Hopeless1der wrote:How I feel Oats is being portrayed recently, self-deserved or not. Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 10:08 Foolishness wrote:I'm going to quote this as a reminder to us all to be ignorant and not stupid, cause even I'm getting paranoid about what's going on here. On August 06 2011 20:35 Ace wrote: Even dumber than 2 years ago.
Player A: Prove you're Town.
Player B: What? That absurdly ridi-
Player A: He can't do it! Lynch him!
Jubjubs (chanting): It makes so much sense! Lynch him!
or the equally stupid because it's the same thing:
Player A: Prove you aren't Mafia.
Player B: ....
Player A: He's defending himself! Lynch him! Defending yourself is a scumtell!
Jubjubs: My god! Why didn't we see this before! *smacks collective forehead*
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. Try to be on the ignorant side, ok?
The people that voted for sandroba are town. WoS is mafia. Kitaman as his partner makes a lot of sense. So are you saying you think Oats is a townie being pressured unreasonably, or just that he's being pressured unreasonably (his alignment aside)?
And just because Ace said something doesn't mean the analogy holds for every case somebody makes on somebody else. I don't see anyone asking Oats to "prove he's town" or "prove he's not scum". I see Balla asking Oats to elaborate on his reads.
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On February 10 2014 14:21 Coagulation wrote: 99% sure jay is scum Do you have a reason to be so sure jay is scum?
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Well, there's a decent chance at least that Coag's scum and we're going to have to do this sooner or later I think.
##Vote: Coagulation
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G'morning lads and lasses.
I'm happy with my vote where it is. I'm not 100% on Coag-scum but I doubt I can improve my read on him - and honestly leaving him alive would sap my will to live, let alone play.
If anyone has some truly compelling reason to call Coag town, feel free to share it though.
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@Jay, can you explain to me exactly what you're seeing in the similarity between Oats last game and this game, and why you think this makes him town?
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done
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You seriously have a strong enough townread on Coag to be certain he's not flipping scum?
The way I see it, if there's even the faintest possibility he flips scum we should lynch him now - because he doesn't even count as a townie. If we get to LYLO with coag, we've already lost.
On that basis, even if he's town we lose nothing by lynching him today.
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On February 11 2014 16:57 Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah I do actually. And he will play the game if people dont get irrationally mad when coag posts anything. I would totally like a lylo with coag. We lose a nightkill to to get rid of an obvious townie. Thats not nothing. And then we start day 3 the same as day 2 but without a strong townie. Show me someone getting irrationally mad when Coag posts.
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Do you think I'm irrationally mad?
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On February 11 2014 17:01 Oatsmaster wrote: You think that coag will never ever be useful ever? That's exactly what I think. In all the games I have ever seen him I have never ever seen coag be useful, ever.
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On February 11 2014 17:05 Oatsmaster wrote: He was useful in pyp 4. Caused 2 scum deaths. I dont even know why coag keeps playing when you guys keep shitting on him every game when he doesnt do what you want <shrug> I don't read theme games.
And I don't see what's so unreasonable about asking someone to justify their views.
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On February 11 2014 17:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Did you read his scum games? Because you should Can you suggest one?
LXIV is a PM game so his posts in the thread are basically irrelevant, Aperture he substituted in on page 110 and was hopelessly lost or something (it was some stupid theme game anyway so I'm not keen on meta from it) and every other one of his scum games I can find is like 3 years old (again, basically irrelevant re. meta).
I can't find any others but I haven't done a truly exhaustive search of games since the last database update.
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you know what, maybe you're right about Coag
##Unvote ##Vote: Oatsmaster
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See, the fact of the matter is that I remain unconvinced that Oats really gives a shit about the game or who we lynch. I mean, he's expressed a desire to lynch Sidesprang yesterday and today, but I'm just not feeling any sincerity or any serious amount of work that's gone into the read.
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@Oats: AFAIK these are the points you've raised against Sidesprang, and I don't really like them much at all.
On February 07 2014 19:17 Oatsmaster wrote: ... ##unvote ##vote Sidesprang Firstly his scumreads dont make sense. He summarizes all our filters and doesnt say anything about how it makes us scum, the things he pointed out in your filters were slightly suspicious, which was all he was saying at the time AFAIK
he isnt reading in depth at all to know that I think johnny is town
Did you think Johnny was town? news to me
and his townread on suki doesnt make sense either
meh... dunno that this is particularly scummy
bleh its hard to phrase but I dont get the feeling like he is questioning anything at all in this game.
that I'll have to think about
On February 10 2014 00:04 Oatsmaster wrote: Sidesprang totally scummy for waffling on his read on me and hopeless and he doesnt even say what he thinks about our votes and stuff leading up to it. did you forget sidesprang?
Sidesprang being scum for being unsure about his reads doesn't really convince me. Nor does him not talking about every facet of someone's filter.
also Who gets worried when scum flip? idk exactly what he meant by this, but I strongly doubt it was a scumclaim.
On February 10 2014 11:55 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 11:45 jaybrundage wrote: Masta of the Oats Talk to me about sidesprang. His lurking ways are pretty sketchy atm. You think he's scum instead of lurking town. Why so?
Also I asked you earlier about Hopeless1der what are your thoughts on him? sidesprang's vote on Johnny came late and felt like he unnecessarily added stuff in order to not be 'sheeping'. sidesprang's vote on Johnny was in the middle of a list post where he said stuff about multiple people. I don't see how amplifing a vote with "stuff" is scummy.
Too many list posts with questions it doesnt seem like he cares about the answers at all.
He has two list posts, both made pretty soon after he returned to the thread from a long absense - updating the thread on your current reads makes some sense in that instance. Of those two list posts, only one of them has questions.
and like this Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 00:58 sidesprang wrote: I don't mind hopeless so far this game. He made good points against JayB, tho I dont agree that they have to make him scum, might just be bad. And I like that he got Balla to quit playing around with the confirmed town shit. Only problem is that all his posts have been easy posts to make even for a scum. So he is pretty much null for me atm. "Hopeless posted good posts but he still scummy". Like what.. So what? I've seen scum make good points about other people. I again don't see what your problem is here.
On February 11 2014 16:30 Oatsmaster wrote: Lol coag is totally an angry lynch. Dont waste today lynching town guys. As scum coag just wouldve given up and not be angry. Sidesprang is todays lynch for bandwagonning onto coag without reasons on why coag is scum I can quite easily imagine a townie just wanting Coag gone regardless of his alignment - that's not too far away from my own position.
Look, Oats, if I'm wrong here about Sidesprang I'd prefer you to convince me than not - but your cases haven't done it yet.
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for the moment though ##Unvote ##Vote: Coagulation this game isn't going to move forward until he's gone, I don't think.
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Eh... maybe. The problem is I can picture Sidesprang being pretty salty with Coag over II Titanic regardless of alignment, Coag screwed the town over pretty damn hard there.
Still don't agree with your point re. the Jonny lynch, in that particular post Sidesprang was giving opinions on a couple of different people and after giving his statement on Jonny voted for him. It would have looked pretty silly for him to give his thoughts on a bunch of other people and then say "By the way, I'm voting this dude I didn't even mention in this post".
And about the Hopeless read I still don't really see your problem. "...yeah this isn't bad but they could probably fake this as scum" is a thought I've had on numerous occasions.
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On February 12 2014 00:25 suki wrote: Hm...
Call it a hunch, but I'm going to go with Hopeless. I think Oats is town and I he's convinced me that sidesprang is the better lynch for today. I also feel like trusting his meta read on Coag.
I also buy the 'sidesprang's reasons are all bad' argument as when sidesprang was town he actually had some decent arguments on why someone is scummy. This game it's all meta reads and kind-of vote analysis.
##unvote ##vote Sidesprang Well, can you convince me that Oats is town then?
Don't expect a reply any time soon though, it's pretty late here and I'm heading off.
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On February 12 2014 00:40 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +. It would have looked pretty silly for him to give his thoughts on a bunch of other people and then say "By the way, I'm voting this dude I didn't even mention in this post".
YEAH EXACTLY. HE CARED HOW HIS POST LOOKED. THATS SCUMMY AQUA. The hopeless thing just really felt like he was trying so hard to be null on hopeless.
Actually giving the thread some indication why he was voting Jonny is NOT scummy and I have no idea why you think it is. Now if he'd tryharded and made some huge case that was all rehashed stuff, then I'd be with you.
On February 09 2014 02:41 sidesprang wrote: Ok lets see...
LM: While reading his filter I just dont see anything that stand out in a scummy way, not neccesarily town either. But not worth looking at this late in the cycle.
Alakaslam: I buy that he has been busy with work and whatnot. As I don't think scum!slam would lurk in any way I dont see a reason for lying about it. That being said I dont think his enterance is very good. Starts by complaining about how Balla / Suki trolled early game, which has been pointed out is something he is very capable aswell. And it was obviously something that was prewritten before Balla got the roles. Why bring that shit up again, its a null tell. His points are just fluff. He then says he is going to try some filters, but looks like he only read JayB, maybe the easiest one to pick on at the time.
@Slam Did you read up on the rest of the players? Do you got any other reads? What are your thoughts on Jonny?
Hopeless: Overall I dont find much scummy or town in his filter. But I agree I don't like why he is giving oats a townread. As oats is able to swap around his vote like that as scum and town it should be a null tell. And as hopeless has been around a lot I would think he would know that.
@Hopeless Is there anything other than the voteswapping and how he did it that give you a towntell on oats? Does your towntell diminish if you read some of his scumgames and see he is able to do that as scum aswell?
Jonny: Ok he left off by saying he had a case coming on Balla, and that Ballas filter stank. But when he comes back he has a case on Koshi. And imo it sucks, he points to a lot of different things, but I dont see why Koshi is scum from any of them. He claims to have scumreads on Koshi, slam and LM. Where the fuck did Balla go? I think Aquas case on him is really good, especially his conversation with the LM read. It really don't make any sense.
@Jonny What is your stance on Balla now? What in his filter stank, is it still stinking ? If not why?
##Vote JonnyLaw
But I don't see how this is an scummy amount of space to devote to explaining his Jonny vote.
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On February 12 2014 00:25 suki wrote: I also buy the 'sidesprang's reasons are all bad' argument as when sidesprang was town he actually had some decent arguments on why someone is scummy. This game it's all meta reads and kind-of vote analysis. Dunno whether this is new or just rephrased... but this maybe I can get behind. Lemme go look at a previous game with this in mind real quick before I head off.
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I reckon, if there's a difference between Sidesprang's town meta (in newbie LI) and here it's that in the newbie he drew more conclusions from the evidence he brought into the thread. The distinction's a matter of degrees though and I'm too damn tired now to tell whether there's a significant difference.
Leaving my vote on Coag for now because I still think he's a liability and is draining the life out of this thread, regardless of his alignment. Hopefully I'll get up before deadline in the morning and have another think about it.
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On February 12 2014 04:16 Coagulation wrote: Aquanim is defending sidesprang hard and making up illogical shit in the process. sidesprang Aquanim scum team calling it now. You're hilarious Coag.
Also, you disgust me... but the fact you're posting anything game-relevant at all is apparently a town-tell. (Much happier with the scum-meta from the PYP LoL game than the others I found.)
Imma go take a quick look at Sidesprang again.
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Ha! Do your worst Coag.
Reading his filter again, it's still marginal but I think there was a significant amount more thought going into his posts in the newbie, rather than just summarising the thread (which more accurately describes here).
Can't say I'm hugely confident in this one but
##Unvote ##Vote: Sidesprang
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That's the best you can do?
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That went well.
guess I'm stuck with coag gnawing on my ankles for the rest of this game
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wow ok who does that even leave
1. Balla24 pushed Jonny lynch (conceivable this was a bus but I highly doubt it) 2. Aquanim pushed Jonny lynch 3. Coagulation counterwagon to Sidesprang 5. LoneMeow 6. Jaybrundage 7. Hopeless1der 8. Oatsmaster pushed sidesprang lynch 10. Suki pushed sidesprang lynch
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The reason I say it's conceivable that Balla's vote for Jonny was a bus (link) was that he left himself an out - he could have stopped voting Jonny plausibly after posting that, if Jonny had come and contributed more.
I think it's highly unlikely - but more likely than Oats or Suki going all-in on Sidesprang like they did.
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On February 12 2014 07:13 Balla24 wrote: LoneMeow hammered sidesprang... I'm not particularly enamoured with the concept of hammering in a non-IML game, a scum LoneMeow could have seen which way the wind was blowing and jumped on early. The Coag wagon was looking fairly implausible at that point.
It decreases the likelihood that he's scum but it's not even nearly the same level of certainty as the other names I crossed off the list.
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I'd personally characterise it less as "defending sidesprang" and more as "testing oats' alignment by criticising his case on Sidesprang, in which I found many of the points unconvincing". I still think a fair proportion of those points were irrelevant to Sidesprang's alignment.
I can understand y'all have reason to be suspicious though.
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On February 12 2014 07:20 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 07:14 Aquanim wrote:The reason I say it's conceivable that Balla's vote for Jonny was a bus ( link) was that he left himself an out - he could have stopped voting Jonny plausibly after posting that, if Jonny had come and contributed more. I think it's highly unlikely - but more likely than Oats or Suki going all-in on Sidesprang like they did. I like that you're saying this stuff about me but you bussing Jonny is much much more conceivable. You defended him against my early case, then after my second large post about him you finally make your case. I was voting for Jonny before you for what that's worth.
I disagreed with some of the points in your earlier case - but between being unimpressed with his reply to your case and reasons of my own I thought he was scum on those grounds.
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On February 12 2014 07:28 Balla24 wrote: We're looking at a day5 LYLO with 2 mislynches until then. Looks good to me for us. Especially since Coag is no longer a question mark :D Yeah, but if he comes after me until doomsday we still lose at LYLO.
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I have some time to kill, anyone want to chat about things?
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On February 12 2014 07:38 Balla24 wrote: Why did you even put yourself on that list lol... that bugs me so bad when people put themselves on lists to call themselves town. Whimsy. Normally I wouldn't but it seemed appropriate in this case.
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like, I just can't picture myself as scum going after a scumbuddy that hard d1
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On February 12 2014 07:43 Balla24 wrote: Who's your highest priority target atm? By process of elimination, Hopeless1der. Having basically eliminated everyone but him, LM and JayB from the running, he's the one who's given me the least reason to think he's town to date. The other two are on the table though.
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On February 12 2014 07:47 Hopeless1der wrote: well i guess i'll go get my hat Who do you think is the last scum, hopeless?
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On February 12 2014 07:58 Hopeless1der wrote: out of your list jb Do you agree that scum is incredibly unlikely to be outside that list? (the list plus me, if you feel that way)
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On February 12 2014 08:04 Hopeless1der wrote: i kinda still like suki for scum because of her meta-reading of sidesprang being so out to lunch. Which meta-read are you referring to? I think she referenced Sidesprang's meta a couple of times.
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On February 12 2014 12:35 Oatsmaster wrote: meh actually I think aqua looks a lot worse now that I think about it. He only switched when the rest of the thread switched and pretty much hard defended sidesprang and attacked coag without bothering to look at his past games although I didnt post them but he still couldve put in the effort. yeah ok. ...I did look at Coag's past games. And indeed, in the ones I found your meta read did more-or-less check out. However, I had reason to doubt the applicability of all of the scum games I found.
I didn't think the meta from Aperture was reliable because it was a clusterfuck of a game which would have been very hard to catch up on, and he replaced in on like page 110. Hence, him not posting anything useful was to be expected. I didn't think the meta from LXIV was reliable because he could have quite easily discussed anything useful he wanted to do in PMs. Hence, him not posting anything useful in the thread was to be expected.
The only other scum games of his that I could find in the database were from 2011 or earlier and I didn't think they would be very useful on those grounds.
In fact, I think I've been over this before:
On February 11 2014 18:04 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2014 17:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Did you read his scum games? Because you should Can you suggest one? LXIV is a PM game so his posts in the thread are basically irrelevant, Aperture he substituted in on page 110 and was hopelessly lost or something (it was some stupid theme game anyway so I'm not keen on meta from it) and every other one of his scum games I can find is like 3 years old (again, basically irrelevant re. meta). I can't find any others but I haven't done a truly exhaustive search of games since the last database update.
Later on somebody linked LoL PYP (which I hadn't found, since it isn't in the database and I didn't check every game for the last three months) and I thought that game was more reliable as a reference for his scum-meta - since it indeed had him doing sweet fuck all, even less than what I saw in his towngames or what he was doing here, I obtained a townread on Coag on that basis.
Which I've also said:
On February 12 2014 06:28 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 04:16 Coagulation wrote: Aquanim is defending sidesprang hard and making up illogical shit in the process. sidesprang Aquanim scum team calling it now. You're hilarious Coag. Also, you disgust me... but the fact you're posting anything game-relevant at all is apparently a town-tell. (Much happier with the scum-meta from the PYP LoL game than the others I found.) Imma go take a quick look at Sidesprang again.
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On February 12 2014 14:40 Oatsmaster wrote:Yeah yeah thats fine and all, ignore the not looking at coag's meta. But that switch was so late and so useless. And it seems like such a small thing to change your mind so drastically from when you totally refused to entertain the idea that sidesprang was scum. Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 06:45 Aquanim wrote: Ha! Do your worst Coag.
Reading his filter again, it's still marginal but I think there was a significant amount more thought going into his posts in the newbie, rather than just summarising the thread (which more accurately describes here).
Can't say I'm hugely confident in this one but
##Unvote ##Vote: Sidesprang I point out a lotta specific points and it comes down to a general meta read that isnt very detailed that makes you pretty much 180? Especially since it was 5/4 in coag's favor so you didnt even need to change. Sidesprang was on my list of possible scum at the start of the day and nothing he did during the day changed that. You're mistaking my doubts of the specific points you raised against Sidesprang for a townread on him. At least part of my motivation for that exchange and pressuring you over your points was to test whether you yourself were just bullshitting or you were genuine about that read - my vote for you was not in jest.
Having slept for a while, when I came back to the thread and had a fresh think about it I decided you and Coag were probably town, which left me with my next-best scumread - Sidesprang. And the fact that my vote was technically unnecessary to lynch Sidesprang doesn't mean I shouldn't vote for my now-top scumread at the lynch.
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On February 12 2014 14:42 Oatsmaster wrote:Like go through your thought process from this post. Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 00:00 Aquanim wrote:+ Show Spoiler +@Oats: AFAIK these are the points you've raised against Sidesprang, and I don't really like them much at all. On February 07 2014 19:17 Oatsmaster wrote: ... ##unvote ##vote Sidesprang Firstly his scumreads dont make sense. He summarizes all our filters and doesnt say anything about how it makes us scum, the things he pointed out in your filters were slightly suspicious, which was all he was saying at the time AFAIK he isnt reading in depth at all to know that I think johnny is town
Did you think Johnny was town? news to me and his townread on suki doesnt make sense either
meh... dunno that this is particularly scummy bleh its hard to phrase but I dont get the feeling like he is questioning anything at all in this game.
that I'll have to think about On February 10 2014 00:04 Oatsmaster wrote: Sidesprang totally scummy for waffling on his read on me and hopeless and he doesnt even say what he thinks about our votes and stuff leading up to it. did you forget sidesprang?
Sidesprang being scum for being unsure about his reads doesn't really convince me. Nor does him not talking about every facet of someone's filter. also Who gets worried when scum flip? idk exactly what he meant by this, but I strongly doubt it was a scumclaim. On February 10 2014 11:55 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 11:45 jaybrundage wrote: Masta of the Oats Talk to me about sidesprang. His lurking ways are pretty sketchy atm. You think he's scum instead of lurking town. Why so?
Also I asked you earlier about Hopeless1der what are your thoughts on him? sidesprang's vote on Johnny came late and felt like he unnecessarily added stuff in order to not be 'sheeping'. sidesprang's vote on Johnny was in the middle of a list post where he said stuff about multiple people. I don't see how amplifing a vote with "stuff" is scummy. Too many list posts with questions it doesnt seem like he cares about the answers at all.
He has two list posts, both made pretty soon after he returned to the thread from a long absense - updating the thread on your current reads makes some sense in that instance. Of those two list posts, only one of them has questions. and like this Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 00:58 sidesprang wrote: I don't mind hopeless so far this game. He made good points against JayB, tho I dont agree that they have to make him scum, might just be bad. And I like that he got Balla to quit playing around with the confirmed town shit. Only problem is that all his posts have been easy posts to make even for a scum. So he is pretty much null for me atm. "Hopeless posted good posts but he still scummy". Like what.. So what? I've seen scum make good points about other people. I again don't see what your problem is here. On February 11 2014 16:30 Oatsmaster wrote: Lol coag is totally an angry lynch. Dont waste today lynching town guys. As scum coag just wouldve given up and not be angry. Sidesprang is todays lynch for bandwagonning onto coag without reasons on why coag is scum I can quite easily imagine a townie just wanting Coag gone regardless of his alignment - that's not too far away from my own position. Look, Oats, if I'm wrong here about Sidesprang I'd prefer you to convince me than not - but your cases haven't done it yet. to this post. Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 06:45 Aquanim wrote: Ha! Do your worst Coag.
Reading his filter again, it's still marginal but I think there was a significant amount more thought going into his posts in the newbie, rather than just summarising the thread (which more accurately describes here).
Can't say I'm hugely confident in this one but
##Unvote ##Vote: Sidesprang Okay. My initial thought before that exchange was that you were likely scum since I didn't think you were pushing particularly hard for a Sidesprang lynch. My previous experience seeing you play as town is that you're more emotionally invested in the game.
After we had that discussion I was entertaining the possibility that Sidesprang was scum, and thinking about whether I was more confident in that possibility or in the possibility that you were scum.
About then Suki wandered into the thread and said something about her town-read on you, and a sentence or two about scum-reading Sidesprang:
On February 12 2014 00:25 suki wrote: I also buy the 'sidesprang's reasons are all bad' argument as when sidesprang was town he actually had some decent arguments on why someone is scummy. This game it's all meta reads and kind-of vote analysis. This "clicked" for me as something which I might view as truly scum-indicative - namely, not drawing rational conclusions out of the thread. Points like "oh well he justified this vote, that makes him scum" don't really do much for me, since I can believe a townie might feel obligated to justify their votes no matter the circumstances. However, just posting observations rather than drawing conclusions is something I do think is reliably scum-indicative.
I found the meta read difficult since Sidesprang's town game does tend towards reciting events in the thread as well, and he drew at least a few conclusions in this game, but I eventually decided there were a significantly larger amount of conclusions being drawn in his town filter than in his game here.
Also, at some point someone posted Coag's LoL PYP filter, which gave me a reliable scum-meta of his to draw upon, leading to my town-read of him (as stated earlier).
Upon rereading in the morning (it was 3am when I went to sleep and I was really tired so I didn't trust my judgement at that point), my scumread on Sidesprang overtook my reads on you (Oats) and Coag. Hence, the vote for Sidesprang. Since my reasons differed from yours I decided to make it clear why I was voting him.
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On February 12 2014 14:53 Oatsmaster wrote: maybe its unfortunate timing but it looks really bad. Yeah ok, I dont think this course of conversation is really all that useful.
Why is hopeless scum I'm going to have to pass on this one for the time being, choosing between hopeless, LM and jayB is challenging me. My snap judgement at the time I said that was that I had more reasons to think LM and jayB were town but I'm starting to rethink that now.
I'll get back to you. Before the end of the night at worst, hopefully sooner.
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Sorry bout that, dota happened
LoneMeow + Show Spoiler +Interactions with/about JonnyLawOn February 08 2014 03:30 LoneMeow wrote: Hello. Had major emergency at work today so I have only done a quick read of the thread so far.
So far I'd call JonnyLaw the scummiest of the bunch. Just compare his posting to the previous game and his newbies. One liners, off topic, no hostility towards who he thinks is scum.
Proper read commencing now, if there's anything you want me to comment on or pay extra attention to let me know. This was LoneMeow's first post in-game. It would seem a little odd for him to bus his scumbuddy right out the gate - then again, Jonny already had two votes on him (myself and Koshi IIRC) and was taking a decent amount of pressure. It might have just seemed like the safest course. Although actually, now that I think about it... how did LoneMeow come to this conclusion without having done a "proper read" of the thread? If you read this LM I'd like an answer, otherwise I'll ask later. He justifies his position when asked though. On February 08 2014 06:12 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 05:32 suki wrote:On February 08 2014 05:19 LoneMeow wrote: Okay, so:
JonnyLaw
Not playing to his usual aggressive, abrasive town meta (and he was called very town for it in the previous game, so there's no reason to change). Posting a lot of one liners and not volunteering his opinion.
Verdict: scummy
Can you provide some examples to back this up? See for example this post from last game: Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 11:48 JonnyLaw wrote: Meh, okay so she dislikes everything I say. I think they mean the same thing. I guess it could be taken as she thinks im misguided sometimes rather than simply scummy.
Her question seemed legit enough but balla's right. At the start of day 1 I want to see what someone is willing or able to bring to the game. There's no point saying much until they show what they're committing.
At this point LM's first post was shit but says nothing about his alignment until other actions take place in the game.
Koshi on the other hand created two pages of shit posting. This allowed LM and other LM like people to pop in, say nothing and fuck off out of here acting as though they participated in the game. Compare to this game - there's absolutely none of that aggression and hostility aimed at any players. It's all generic, see for example these: Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:43 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 07 2014 07:40 Koshi wrote:On February 07 2014 07:40 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 07 2014 07:36 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:28 suki wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote: @jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
Legitimate question. Jay, since you're 0.29% more likely to be scum than me, and since you were the top 2 Day 1 lynch in the previous game, how do you plan to play differently in order to avoid being targeted for lynch this game? It might be a rough game. I tryharded the shit out of last game. And jonny wanted to lynch me cause I was "acting" like town. I guess the first thing would be too not give as much advice this game. 1. Because I said it last game. 2. Because now I can just policy lynch lurkers cause they have been warned :D I want to just say scum hunt more. But its not easy too early day 1. Maybe more pressure less advice for the early day. Overall you had a good game. You had one comment early that tripped my scum radar. I think along the lines of "in newer games people need motivation to post." Then you proceeded to try and take over the town. I felt like you were scum trying to take over the town. Bah, you should have been scum. Nobody cares about past game Jonny. What better time to sit around talking. It lets us get reads we can use later. Better last game or future games or past games than fucking policy talk. Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:41 JonnyLaw wrote: Votes are like assholes in this game. Give the man a minute. It's day1 lets sit around and chat a while. On February 08 2014 06:21 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 06:18 suki wrote: Ok so Jonny doesn't have any scum games that I can find. If someone can link me any that would be great.
To my best understanding he's had none whatsoever. Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 06:18 suki wrote: Going through the previous town games of his I don't see too much difference between those games and this game. He's always posted one liners, with the occasional longer post here and there. One of the things that I didn't like about his play that I've mentioned is he keeps on shitting on Balla's opening post way after he says it's useless to talk about it.. But in Shadowed Mafia he actually does the same with Koshi's opening. Keeps on mentioning it despite saying it's useless.
If you look at the previous aborted game, he did have one liners but he also posted quite a lot of longer posts where he actively volunteered his thoughts and reads on players. That's what is missing in this game, along with the aggression and hostility towards players he thinks are scum. If LoneMeow's scum he bussed JonnyLaw good and hard, at a time when I feel it wasn't immediately necessary... but I'm not entirely sure the scum team would have felt the same way. There was also that thing where Jonny claimed LoneMeow had said "lurking"/"nothing of merit" without ever really reading his filter. ...I really don't know how that reflects on LoneMeow's alignment, I'd like to hear other opinions on this one. I think it could be important though. Interactions with/about SidesprangOn February 08 2014 06:05 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 05:31 Koshi wrote:On February 08 2014 05:24 LoneMeow wrote:On February 08 2014 05:21 Koshi wrote: I like you Stray Kitten. I like you.
I don't see jayB being scum without Jonny being scum tbh. The other way around is possible.
Can we see a vote already? Why do you think jaybrundage can't be scum if JonnyLaw is town? Connection? The way you catched me previous game. I disappeared when it was lynch and wasn't discussing anything. The same happened with Jonny early game. Imagine if Jonny is town and jayB is scum, do you think Jonny would suddenly disappear at the same time hell breaks lose and not offer his opinion? There's always the chance that he actually had to do something IRL, but yes, I see your point. Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 05:31 Koshi wrote: Then when I call him out on him he says that he is there and trying to make sense of the clusterfuck. Which is extremely scummy, and then the next thing he posts is a misinterpretation about something that hapenned PRE-GAME. (the lollypop business).
The "trying to make sense" thing was scummy, I agree. What do you think of sidesprang? You asked him some questions, did you come to some conclusion based on the answers? meh. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442787¤tpage=60#1200Partially contests suki's case on Sidesprang. Reads kind of similar to my own argument against Oats' case but that doesn't necessarily make LM town. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442787¤tpage=60#1200then this, about which I am also "meh". On LoneMeow's metaI went back and had a quick look at his scum meta (most recent I believe) from Newbie XLVII. Despite the fact that he was apparently posting with one hand from hospital or something, he asked some questions and appears to have had at least a little interaction with the thread. My only personal previous experience with LoneMeow was when he was scum in Newbie XLIII, in which his play was significantly less proactive. Therefore, I previously had his large amount of interaction with the thread as a strong towntell - in the light of his XLVII meta I think it's weaker. Conclusion: I don't really have one as yet. He'd be playing a pretty damn good scumgame if he is but I think he might conceivably be capable of it.
obviously imma talk some more with lone and develop my read on him tomorrow. For now I'll have a look at hopeless then go to bed. Can't be assed thinking about jay until he reveals whatever is going on with this blueclaim shit.
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Hopeless1der
Oh wow. + Show Spoiler +Interactions with/about JonnyLawOn February 08 2014 23:44 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 23:29 Koshi wrote:On February 08 2014 23:17 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 08 2014 23:02 Koshi wrote: You never sheep. Was is dis? I sheep all the time, I just dont say im sheeping Not at all. Did.you agree with Hopeless read on you?How sure are you about jonny red flip? Of course he disagrees with me, he's scum Koshi. /sarcasm I may not be back before deadline, family stuff. I'll try to keep updated by phone ##Unvote ##Vote: JonnyLaw Hopeless does not mention jonnylaw at all before this post. Doesn't discuss the cases made by two or three other players (myself, koshi, balla). None, nada, zip. Can't believe I didn't notice this earlier. Interactions with/about Sidesprangdisagrees with Suki's scum meta read on Sidesprang, otherwise there is nothing at all. Absolutely nothing about the alignment of Sidesprang, who was a person of interest for quite some time in the thread. So was Jonny for that matter. Conclusion: simply based on association with flipped scum he's far, far more likely than Lone. In other regards I haven't been getting hugely scummy feelings from him throughout the game, but not in fact having talked about either of the scum lynches in the game at all is pretty damning.
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There's probably more to say about Hopeless but it's now late and I'm going to sleep. See you later.
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On February 13 2014 05:25 LoneMeow wrote:The thing that strikes out most about Aquanim is this progression: Show nested quote +On February 11 2014 17:10 Aquanim wrote:On February 11 2014 17:05 Oatsmaster wrote: He was useful in pyp 4. Caused 2 scum deaths. I dont even know why coag keeps playing when you guys keep shitting on him every game when he doesnt do what you want <shrug> I don't read theme games. And I don't see what's so unreasonable about asking someone to justify their views. Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 06:28 Aquanim wrote:On February 12 2014 04:16 Coagulation wrote: Aquanim is defending sidesprang hard and making up illogical shit in the process. sidesprang Aquanim scum team calling it now. You're hilarious Coag. Also, you disgust me... but the fact you're posting anything game-relevant at all is apparently a town-tell. (Much happier with the scum-meta from the PYP LoL game than the others I found.) Imma go take a quick look at Sidesprang again. Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 14:32 Aquanim wrote: Later on somebody linked LoL PYP (which I hadn't found, since it isn't in the database and I didn't check every game for the last three months) and I thought that game was more reliable as a reference for his scum-meta - since it indeed had him doing sweet fuck all, even less than what I saw in his towngames or what he was doing here, I obtained a townread on Coag on that basis.
There's some cognitive dissonance between the idea that he doesn't want to bother to check the game because it's themed, yet when it's linked to the thread he in fact does read it and use it as reason to swap his vote. But him being scum would imply a pretty hard bus on D1. I need to look into that but it's bedtime now so that will have to wait until morning. The first post would have been better expressed as "I don't read themed games for recreation", IIRC that's what I meant at the time.
I'm also not greatly keen on them for meta but under the circumstances PYP is the best of a bad lot of games with respect to Coag's scum meta. When needs must and all that.
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EBWOP to the first sentence: Hence why I personally have no idea what happened in PYP 4. It's also why I had no idea Coag had played in LoL PYP until someone linked it.
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I don't intend to lynch Jay without thinking about it, but this claim of his is looking sketchier and sketchier.
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As in, I would vote Jay because I thought his play was scummy, not only because of this blueclaim shit.
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Well Artanis was here an hour ago to start the resolution period, so I guess we just wait.
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goodnight, sweet prince/and flights of angels sing thee to thy rest
about this point you have on Suki, hopeless:
Her filter is about 2/3 Day/Night 1 and 1/3 Day/Night 2 (I know Night2 isnt over yet, but the disparity is there) Why do you think Suki's distribution of posts in this proportion is scummy?
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On February 13 2014 07:29 Hopeless1der wrote: activity falling off cliffs is not scummy to you aqua? Well, slightly less than one third of the thread is composed of Day2/Night2... so if Suki's scum for it a fair few other people are gonna be too.
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Honestly I don't feel like I was the top-priority check here but... meh, maybe.
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@Hopeless: How much faith do you put in the parity cop check?
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Dunno that I'd classify entering the thread late as scummy. Stuff happens.
I do have a question for LoneMeow though.
On February 08 2014 03:30 LoneMeow wrote: Hello. Had major emergency at work today so I have only done a quick read of the thread so far.
So far I'd call JonnyLaw the scummiest of the bunch. Just compare his posting to the previous game and his newbies. One liners, off topic, no hostility towards who he thinks is scum.
Proper read commencing now, if there's anything you want me to comment on or pay extra attention to let me know. @LoneMeow: Had you looked at everyone in the game before making this post? If so, what do you mean by a "proper read"?
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Whenever you come online LoneMeow I'd love to have a chat.
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Is your top scumread still Jay?
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Who would be your next best guess ignoring Jay then?
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On February 13 2014 15:44 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 15:34 Aquanim wrote: Who would be your next best guess ignoring Jay then? Hopeless1der or suki, pretty much equally suspicious of them right now. I'm finding it pretty hard to believe that a scum-Suki would make this post:
On February 12 2014 00:25 suki wrote: Hm...
Call it a hunch, but I'm going to go with Hopeless. I think Oats is town and I he's convinced me that sidesprang is the better lynch for today. I also feel like trusting his meta read on Coag.
I also buy the 'sidesprang's reasons are all bad' argument as when sidesprang was town he actually had some decent arguments on why someone is scummy. This game it's all meta reads and kind-of vote analysis.
##unvote ##vote Sidesprang Given her past comments on Coag she could have very easily just let the Coag lynch go through, but instead she pushed the lynch towards scum. I find it hard to believe this is a "bus my teammate and hope nobody follows" post either.
Can you explain why you think Suki's actions regarding the day 2 lynch would serve a scum motivation?
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On February 13 2014 15:49 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 23:50 Aquanim wrote:Sorry bout that, dota happened LoneMeow+ Show Spoiler +Interactions with/about JonnyLawOn February 08 2014 03:30 LoneMeow wrote: Hello. Had major emergency at work today so I have only done a quick read of the thread so far.
So far I'd call JonnyLaw the scummiest of the bunch. Just compare his posting to the previous game and his newbies. One liners, off topic, no hostility towards who he thinks is scum.
Proper read commencing now, if there's anything you want me to comment on or pay extra attention to let me know. This was LoneMeow's first post in-game. It would seem a little odd for him to bus his scumbuddy right out the gate - then again, Jonny already had two votes on him (myself and Koshi IIRC) and was taking a decent amount of pressure. It might have just seemed like the safest course. Although actually, now that I think about it... how did LoneMeow come to this conclusion without having done a "proper read" of the thread? If you read this LM I'd like an answer, otherwise I'll ask later. He justifies his position when asked though. On February 08 2014 06:12 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 05:32 suki wrote:On February 08 2014 05:19 LoneMeow wrote: Okay, so:
JonnyLaw
Not playing to his usual aggressive, abrasive town meta (and he was called very town for it in the previous game, so there's no reason to change). Posting a lot of one liners and not volunteering his opinion.
Verdict: scummy
Can you provide some examples to back this up? See for example this post from last game: Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 11:48 JonnyLaw wrote: Meh, okay so she dislikes everything I say. I think they mean the same thing. I guess it could be taken as she thinks im misguided sometimes rather than simply scummy.
Her question seemed legit enough but balla's right. At the start of day 1 I want to see what someone is willing or able to bring to the game. There's no point saying much until they show what they're committing.
At this point LM's first post was shit but says nothing about his alignment until other actions take place in the game.
Koshi on the other hand created two pages of shit posting. This allowed LM and other LM like people to pop in, say nothing and fuck off out of here acting as though they participated in the game. Compare to this game - there's absolutely none of that aggression and hostility aimed at any players. It's all generic, see for example these: Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:43 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 07 2014 07:40 Koshi wrote:On February 07 2014 07:40 JonnyLaw wrote:On February 07 2014 07:36 jaybrundage wrote:On February 07 2014 07:28 suki wrote:On February 07 2014 07:23 Balla24 wrote: @jaybrundage, that implies that you were thinking something, so what was it that you were thinking before you came to that conclusion?
Legitimate question. Jay, since you're 0.29% more likely to be scum than me, and since you were the top 2 Day 1 lynch in the previous game, how do you plan to play differently in order to avoid being targeted for lynch this game? It might be a rough game. I tryharded the shit out of last game. And jonny wanted to lynch me cause I was "acting" like town. I guess the first thing would be too not give as much advice this game. 1. Because I said it last game. 2. Because now I can just policy lynch lurkers cause they have been warned :D I want to just say scum hunt more. But its not easy too early day 1. Maybe more pressure less advice for the early day. Overall you had a good game. You had one comment early that tripped my scum radar. I think along the lines of "in newer games people need motivation to post." Then you proceeded to try and take over the town. I felt like you were scum trying to take over the town. Bah, you should have been scum. Nobody cares about past game Jonny. What better time to sit around talking. It lets us get reads we can use later. Better last game or future games or past games than fucking policy talk. Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 07:41 JonnyLaw wrote: Votes are like assholes in this game. Give the man a minute. It's day1 lets sit around and chat a while. On February 08 2014 06:21 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 06:18 suki wrote: Ok so Jonny doesn't have any scum games that I can find. If someone can link me any that would be great.
To my best understanding he's had none whatsoever. Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 06:18 suki wrote: Going through the previous town games of his I don't see too much difference between those games and this game. He's always posted one liners, with the occasional longer post here and there. One of the things that I didn't like about his play that I've mentioned is he keeps on shitting on Balla's opening post way after he says it's useless to talk about it.. But in Shadowed Mafia he actually does the same with Koshi's opening. Keeps on mentioning it despite saying it's useless.
If you look at the previous aborted game, he did have one liners but he also posted quite a lot of longer posts where he actively volunteered his thoughts and reads on players. That's what is missing in this game, along with the aggression and hostility towards players he thinks are scum. If LoneMeow's scum he bussed JonnyLaw good and hard, at a time when I feel it wasn't immediately necessary... but I'm not entirely sure the scum team would have felt the same way. There was also that thing where Jonny claimed LoneMeow had said "lurking"/"nothing of merit" without ever really reading his filter. ...I really don't know how that reflects on LoneMeow's alignment, I'd like to hear other opinions on this one. I think it could be important though. Interactions with/about SidesprangOn February 08 2014 06:05 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 05:31 Koshi wrote:On February 08 2014 05:24 LoneMeow wrote:On February 08 2014 05:21 Koshi wrote: I like you Stray Kitten. I like you.
I don't see jayB being scum without Jonny being scum tbh. The other way around is possible.
Can we see a vote already? Why do you think jaybrundage can't be scum if JonnyLaw is town? Connection? The way you catched me previous game. I disappeared when it was lynch and wasn't discussing anything. The same happened with Jonny early game. Imagine if Jonny is town and jayB is scum, do you think Jonny would suddenly disappear at the same time hell breaks lose and not offer his opinion? There's always the chance that he actually had to do something IRL, but yes, I see your point. Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 05:31 Koshi wrote: Then when I call him out on him he says that he is there and trying to make sense of the clusterfuck. Which is extremely scummy, and then the next thing he posts is a misinterpretation about something that hapenned PRE-GAME. (the lollypop business).
The "trying to make sense" thing was scummy, I agree. What do you think of sidesprang? You asked him some questions, did you come to some conclusion based on the answers? meh. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442787¤tpage=60#1200Partially contests suki's case on Sidesprang. Reads kind of similar to my own argument against Oats' case but that doesn't necessarily make LM town. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442787¤tpage=60#1200then this, about which I am also "meh". On LoneMeow's metaI went back and had a quick look at his scum meta (most recent I believe) from Newbie XLVII. Despite the fact that he was apparently posting with one hand from hospital or something, he asked some questions and appears to have had at least a little interaction with the thread. My only personal previous experience with LoneMeow was when he was scum in Newbie XLIII, in which his play was significantly less proactive. Therefore, I previously had his large amount of interaction with the thread as a strong towntell - in the light of his XLVII meta I think it's weaker. Conclusion: I don't really have one as yet. He'd be playing a pretty damn good scumgame if he is but I think he might conceivably be capable of it. obviously imma talk some more with lone and develop my read on him tomorrow. For now I'll have a look at hopeless then go to bed. Can't be assed thinking about jay until he reveals whatever is going on with this blueclaim shit. Just to validate your thoughts, are you aware of my meta as scum? Well you were scum in Newbie XLIII which we both played in. I also took a look at Newbie XLVII (I think that's the number?) in which you were also scum, but had a motorcycle accident or something just before the game started so you were posting with one hand from hospital.
Despite that you engaged with the thread much more than I remember from XLIII, asked questions of people and posted some reasoning behind your reads.
AFAIK you haven't played scum since then, correct me if I'm wrong here.
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On February 13 2014 15:55 Oatsmaster wrote: yeah what aqua said actually. I just dont think hopeless is scum also. Which leaves like Coag.
Aqua/hopeless, why is Coag confirmed town because of the lynch? Couldnt have it been scum and scum?
Yeah I was thinking about that actually. Ordinarily the argument against both of the wagons on one day being scum is that the scumteam would have tried to set up at least one townie as a possible lynch target. BUT, if the scumteam at that point was Coag/Sidesprang they didn't have the thread presence to do anything of the sort.
So you're quite right. I don't think Coag is confirmed town based on that lynch, now that I think about it.
Which leaves us with two reasons to think Coag's town:
1) his scum meta is to post no reads or much of anything useful at all, which isn't what we've seen here 2) him getting emotional and flaming us for lynching him
Which is... meh.
Regarding 1) I'd like to think Coag isn't a complete incompetent, and could possibly play a better scumgame than his usual if he felt like it. So... meh.
Regarding 2) the question I'm thinking about is "could Coag, as scum, be mad because he thinks he's being lynched ONLY for the flaws in Alakaslam's play?".
And I'm with you here... I really just can't find the scum in the other players. It's conceivable that it's Lone or Hopeless, but I'm not really feeling it.
Coag just bailing out of the thread after the lynch and not coming back for 36 hours sits badly with me too but this being Coag what do you expect.
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On February 13 2014 16:00 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 15:51 Aquanim wrote:On February 13 2014 15:44 LoneMeow wrote:On February 13 2014 15:34 Aquanim wrote: Who would be your next best guess ignoring Jay then? Hopeless1der or suki, pretty much equally suspicious of them right now. I'm finding it pretty hard to believe that a scum-Suki would make this post: On February 12 2014 00:25 suki wrote: Hm...
Call it a hunch, but I'm going to go with Hopeless. I think Oats is town and I he's convinced me that sidesprang is the better lynch for today. I also feel like trusting his meta read on Coag.
I also buy the 'sidesprang's reasons are all bad' argument as when sidesprang was town he actually had some decent arguments on why someone is scummy. This game it's all meta reads and kind-of vote analysis.
##unvote ##vote Sidesprang Given her past comments on Coag she could have very easily just let the Coag lynch go through, but instead she pushed the lynch towards scum. I find it hard to believe this is a "bus my teammate and hope nobody follows" post either. Can you explain why you think Suki's actions regarding the day 2 lynch would serve a scum motivation? If I'm not mistaken the votes after she switched were: Coagulation ( 5 ) : LoneMeow, jaybrundage, Hopeless1der, sidesprang, Aquanim, Suki, Aquanim Sidesprang ( 3 ) : Oatsmaster, Coagulation, suki, Jaybrundage Oatsmaster ( 1 ) : Balla24, Aquanim So I don't see why she wouldn't bus for town cred. Note that she doesn't really do anything to push the lynch, just switches her vote. The way I see it: If we had mislynched Coagulation and then lynched sidesprang after that, it would look better for her to have been on the correct wagon. And it also distances her from sidesprang. I'd forgotten Coag had already voted Sidesprang at that point, but that vote would probably be implicit in the thread situation.
Still though my feeling for the thread at that point was that Oats was getting no traction pushing the Sidesprang lynch, the thread was largely in the mindset of "let's just lynch Coag and get this day over with". Suki jumping on the Sidesprang wagon gave it momentum and more credibility as a counterwagon.
I guess it's possible maybe that Suki misjudged what the effect would be of her getting on Sidesprang. Still though... there were plenty of people on the Coag lynch to hide behind and just sheep to a mislynch.
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On February 13 2014 16:17 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 16:09 Aquanim wrote:On February 13 2014 16:00 LoneMeow wrote:On February 13 2014 15:51 Aquanim wrote:On February 13 2014 15:44 LoneMeow wrote:On February 13 2014 15:34 Aquanim wrote: Who would be your next best guess ignoring Jay then? Hopeless1der or suki, pretty much equally suspicious of them right now. I'm finding it pretty hard to believe that a scum-Suki would make this post: On February 12 2014 00:25 suki wrote: Hm...
Call it a hunch, but I'm going to go with Hopeless. I think Oats is town and I he's convinced me that sidesprang is the better lynch for today. I also feel like trusting his meta read on Coag.
I also buy the 'sidesprang's reasons are all bad' argument as when sidesprang was town he actually had some decent arguments on why someone is scummy. This game it's all meta reads and kind-of vote analysis.
##unvote ##vote Sidesprang Given her past comments on Coag she could have very easily just let the Coag lynch go through, but instead she pushed the lynch towards scum. I find it hard to believe this is a "bus my teammate and hope nobody follows" post either. Can you explain why you think Suki's actions regarding the day 2 lynch would serve a scum motivation? If I'm not mistaken the votes after she switched were: Coagulation ( 5 ) : LoneMeow, jaybrundage, Hopeless1der, sidesprang, Aquanim, Suki, Aquanim Sidesprang ( 3 ) : Oatsmaster, Coagulation, suki, Jaybrundage Oatsmaster ( 1 ) : Balla24, Aquanim So I don't see why she wouldn't bus for town cred. Note that she doesn't really do anything to push the lynch, just switches her vote. The way I see it: If we had mislynched Coagulation and then lynched sidesprang after that, it would look better for her to have been on the correct wagon. And it also distances her from sidesprang. I'd forgotten Coag had already voted Sidesprang at that point, but that vote would probably be implicit in the thread situation. Still though my feeling for the thread at that point was that Oats was getting no traction pushing the Sidesprang lynch, the thread was largely in the mindset of "let's just lynch Coag and get this day over with". Suki jumping on the Sidesprang wagon gave it momentum and more credibility as a counterwagon. I guess it's possible maybe that Suki misjudged what the effect would be of her getting on Sidesprang. Still though... there were plenty of people on the Coag lynch to hide behind and just sheep to a mislynch. Are you aware of suki's scum meta? I hosted NMM LI - after that I'm extremely wary of her bussing teammates... I'm more like thinking suki did not expect Balla24 to jump on sidesprang and start seriously pushing the vote - that's what got sidesprang lynched, far more than suki herself switching. This is basically Balla24's suspicions before suki went on sidesprang: Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 12:39 Balla24 wrote: I don't want to hard push Oats yet, but there is a case to be had in the near future, I want to see other people stuff first. Like hopeless' promised answers to my question, and stuff from coag and sidesprang.
I'm vaguely aware of her scum meta - I'll take a hard look at LI and see if I can see it matching here.
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still digesting LI, but here's a thought:
After voting sidesprang and answering a question I had about a town read on Oats, suki posted nothing between then and the lynch, but was clearly present for at least some of that time since she posted just after it:
On February 12 2014 07:06 suki wrote:Yay guys I think Day 2 went well for us. Everybody contributed. We should be able to root out the last scum from this. I hadn't quite realised that before now. And I definitely think there were things worth talking about in the thread.
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So having read LI I have this observation to make about Suki's scum meta: she is not afraid to analyse the thread with some accuracy, to give out townreads to townies, and to call out her scumbuddies for doing scummy things.
...I could just about see this game as being her scumgame. I think it would be a slightly better scumgame than LI, but not an impossible improvement.
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@suki: Why do you think you are the top scum suspect when there are currently zero votes for you?
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On February 13 2014 17:30 suki wrote: Like, look at where I am right now, top scum suspect.
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Yeah, I think I'm ok with this now.
##Vote: Suki
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On February 14 2014 12:01 suki wrote: LoneMeow I think is scummy. If LoneMeow isn't scum I really don't know cuz everyone else looks town to me. LoneMeow hasn't stuck his neck out, conveniently hasn't read anybody as town. Has thrown suspicion on everyone today except Oats. In day 1 and 2 he sort of lingered in the background and didn't have any effect on the lynches. Can you explain to me the distinction you draw between "throwing suspicion on everyone" and "considering all of the possibilities for the last scum"?
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'morning.
K, lemme think about this one last time.
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My problem with using reads Suki's brought up like "who's boxed themselves into a corner today re. their scumreads" and "I've never hard tunneled as scum" is that clearly Suki knows these tells and is quite possibly playing around them.
There are a couple of things about Suki's posting today which have struck me as quite scummy:
1) When she returned to the thread on Page 79, at this point suspicion of her is as follows: - LoneMeow and Hopeless have her as a primary scum suspect, but she has a scumread on both of them - Oats and I have just started to re-question her alignment, but no serious suspicion has been levelled as yet - iirc Jay had her pretty high on the list, too
So there's some questioning of her alignment, but no votes have actually been made at this point. Furthermore, from her perspective if she's town LM and Hopeless' suspicions should carry less weight since she thinks at least one of them is scum.
And yet, I still get the impression that she's like a deer caught in the headlights, and... well... desperate for thread attention to go somewhere else:
Honestly right now I'm just really confused. I'm looking at Hopeless, Coag and LoneMeow and I just can't seem to latch on to anything that's hard evidence that they're scum. The more I think, the more things that I dig up that make me think that it could only come from them if they're town.
Well except LoneMeow, he always plays this super careful game. Last game I totally thought he was scum even though he was town, this game I get the same feeling.
Overall though, LoneMeow is still the most likely scum to me. I just don't see what he's done that makes him town.
Seriously guys, look at LoneMeow.
2) This post:
On February 14 2014 01:58 suki wrote: More on LoneMeow. This time, his interactions with Sidesprang.
Looking now, I noticed that LoneMeow was actually soft-defending Sidesprang.
Now there's two problems with this post for me. The first one is this statement about her own play made a bit later:
Soft defending scum, even your own scum read, is not scummy. Town does not know scum alignments so obviously they're going to try to look at things from all directions.
So why is LM scummy for soft-defending Sidesprang?
And the second: The post above implies that Suki only just now noticed that LM was soft-defending Sidesprang, but a while earlier she wrote:
On February 13 2014 10:04 suki wrote:Jay having a really solid answer to why he chose who he chose seems town... Also the fact that he is not panicking at all or overreacting. Hopeless' play has been much different. Also the fact that he's given himself no outs is really .. kamikaze as scum? I don't know.. ##unvote ##vote LoneMeowI made a case against LoneMeow during N2. I want more people to look at it and consider LoneMeow being scum. The summary from the case: 1. He comes into the game really late. 2. He starts off the game with only Jonny being scummy to him, yet doesn't further analyze Jonny throughout the day or try to convince people Jonny's scummy. 3. He is fifth to vote Jonny. 4. He soft defended sidesprang and was reluctant to vote him.5. Basically he did nothing this game that really furthered the lynches on the two flipped scum. I'd like to hear opinions on LoneMeow in addition to the commentary that's obviously going to happen about Jay and Hopeless. Which is itself an extract from an earlier case. (See the emphasied part.)
Forgetting your own cases on your scumreads isn't something I'd expect from a townie.
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Am I seriously the only person here for the lynch?
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gg suki, whichever way this flips
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On February 15 2014 07:54 Coagulation wrote: gj guys yeah well thanks for your help coag, without your sterling contribution there is no way we could ever catch the last scum
/s
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what's the matter, cat got your tongue? or is that just your one mandated post for the nightphase to avoid a modkill
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funnier shit when you're completely and utterly wrong
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see I'd be happy to engage in something other than name-calling Coag but you just don't ever seem to be interested
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On February 15 2014 13:48 jaybrundage wrote: Oatsmaster can you Vig LM then? come on, Oats doesn't forget he's a power role *that* often
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@LoneMeow: What was the thought process and purpose behind this post:
On February 13 2014 17:50 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 17:43 suki wrote:If I ignore his Day 3 'kamikaze no plan for the future' play, then he looks worse than LoneMeow, as per my case in N2: + Show Spoiler +On February 13 2014 00:41 suki wrote:Hopeless: Hopeless is way more active than last game. I was going to say that this points to him being more town but actually thinking about it, he was pretty active at the end of Day 1 last game, active enough to convince people he was town. I was also going to say he's more light-hearted but actually his tone seems about the same (minus the reboot pic that he posted when his wireless conked out which is null imo). He hard pushes Jay as the lynch on Day 1: Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 10:35 Hopeless1der wrote: I dont like jayb..so forced and trivial. Like in a too-scummy-to-be-scum way. I actually liked the way he pressured and thought it was townie. and then he randomly votes Jonny: Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 23:44 Hopeless1der wrote:On February 08 2014 23:29 Koshi wrote:On February 08 2014 23:17 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 08 2014 23:02 Koshi wrote: You never sheep. Was is dis? I sheep all the time, I just dont say im sheeping Not at all. Did.you agree with Hopeless read on you?How sure are you about jonny red flip? Of course he disagrees with me, he's scum Koshi. /sarcasm I may not be back before deadline, family stuff. I'll try to keep updated by phone ##Unvote ##Vote: JonnyLaw So yeah it's a bit strange. Pushes Jay the whole game, I'm stilll hard pushing Jay. Suddenly he votes Jonny with no explanation. Hopeless then posts his big scum theory on me, which is the biggest effort he's put all game (and which I felt was a big point in his favour). However, scum COULD have written it so let's look into his follow up... ... .. He completely forgets about it. That's really weird. Putting so much effort into calling someone scum and then not even following up. He gets sidetracked on Coag when thread sentiment is headed that way. He also seems to still be seeing Jay as scummy, reaffirmed that Jay's quote was not a blue claim, but isn't pushing Jay either. Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 08:04 Hopeless1der wrote: i kinda still like suki for scum because of her meta-reading of sidesprang being so out to lunch. What about Hopeless' meta read on me? What about my 'bad' case on Jay? What about avoiding Jonny's scum games? About 'wait-and-see' with Jonny? Defending Jonny? Somehow, Hopeless went from suki is scum I have a huge case with actual valid points to, 'i kinda still like suki for scum' with no explanation in between. He also didn't talk about sidesprang yesterday and instead of pushing me or Jay just went with effectively a policy lynch. ConclusionI agree with Aqua, Hopeless looks a lot more scummy than LoneMeow. He's my number one scum read at the moment. So does the "kamikaze" logic hold water? Are those really town reads he can't back out of if you are lynched and flip town?
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I reckon Hopeless is a better chance to flip scum than LoneMeow.
Day 1
When I looked at Hopeless' filter for day 1 of this game, something jumped out at me: Hopeless didn't seem to be looking around at many people as possible scum.
The ONLY player Hopeless asked questions of off his own bat was Jay. The ONLY player Hopeless pressured himself was Jay. The ONLY opinions Hopeless gave which weren't solicited were of Jay.
Compare with his Day One filter filter as town in SMB. He expresses and follows up on suspicion of Grack, Skanjab, Toad, etc.
Regardless of meta any townie should be looking at a fair proportion of the thread, if not everybody, day 1 as being at least possible scum. I don't see any evidence of Hopeless having doubts about the alignment of many people at all in his day 1 filter, or even trying to draw new information into the thread about anyone other than Jay which might be useful.
And finally, Hopeless sheeped onto Jonny having given no explanation, never talked about him or to him the entire day, nothing.
Day 2
Voted coag, then said nothing much more of value. Implicitly indicated here:
On February 12 2014 06:56 Hopeless1der wrote: meh i'll save toad the legwork. that he wasn't against the sidesprang lynch and might have voted for it. He did exchange a couple of words with Sidesprang here but nothing particularly related to scumhunting.
Incidentally, Sidesprang's reasons for shifting his scummish read on Hopeless to null here weren't particularly convincing.
Again there's not much of any interest in drawing new information about other people into the thread in Hopeless' filter.
Day 3
Still not much of any interest in looking at anyone other than Suki (and Jay earlier in the day) but at this point in the game that's not incriminating.
I had a look at some Hopeless scumgames and I think he's capable as scum of posting cases/reads/analysis in as much detail as he has in this game.
In contrast, I feel like LoneMeow has spent a fair bit of time this game getting information from a large variety of people. (His activity is not as great as Hopeless' but he is in a different timezone to many/all of us so that is only to be expected.)
LoneMeow listed Jonny as one of his scumreads on his initial entry to the thread, and had sidesprang moderately high on his scumread list.
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Don't take this to mean that I'm decided on tomorrow's lynch already - but on the off-chance I get shot, you know where I'm at.
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Not sure if he was shot because conf-town or because the last scum isn't a godfather - but I suppose it doesn't matter much.
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On February 16 2014 07:50 Hopeless1der wrote: Does my vote on johnny look like a bus? Like I had anything resembling a plan to perhaps save him or otherwise capitalize on the scum lynch to get town credit? The problem I have with this argument is at that point you couldn't have saved Jonny if you tried and pretty much whatever you did wasn't going to get you much town credit.
On February 16 2014 08:43 Hopeless1der wrote: In defense to your 'smb'meta on me aqua, iirc I was under decent suspicion early on and my activity was appreciably greater because of it. LM cites me saying it in LXIII as well. It doesn't matter what alignment I am.
Another thing is I completely tunnelled grack day 1 for self voting, troll-lurking and being unhelpful and then toad day2 for 'not playing' and martyring. I lynched antitown behavior and couldn't be assed to look for the town motives because the behavior was so fantastically antitown that it deserved to be lynched.
I'd consider my treatment of coag this game to be on par with that. Fine, I'll check other of your town games. However, I don't think you've adressed the actual point I was trying to make: namely, that as town (as any townie should be) you are suspicious, or at least curious, about many players in the game, whereas in this game you tunneled Jay and showed no real interest in anyone else's alignment.
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On February 16 2014 10:27 Oatsmaster wrote: So aqua, all the people that are saying that hopeless' game is different from the first one is wrong? If you rolled scum in a game and then rolled scum in the reboot, would you play the same?
Can you remind me which aspects of his game have changed and why they reflect a town mentality? I'd go back and trawl through filters myself but I'm busy today. (look at my icon)
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And as for "everybody else who's saying X is wrong": by definition, in the current situation, we've ALL been wrong about somebody.
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On February 16 2014 17:05 Oatsmaster wrote: oh god thread is dead, how are we ever gonna win??? ##vote LM Im actually quite inclined to kill aqua for setting up lynches. Its really suspicious and seems like he knows that LM is town. So you're not going to answer my question about Hopeless or adress my argument against him? okay then.
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like seriously, if you're concerned about the thread being dead maybe you should talk about the only material anybody has contributed to the thread in the last 24 hours
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@Coag: Do you have any intention of possibly voting anybody other than me in the next two days?
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See, Oats, the thing is here...
I don't see LM voting for anyone but Hopeless and I don't see Hopeless voting for anyone but LM. Coag's exceedingly likely to ignore anything I say. Therefore, the only person I'm talking to here is you... and if you just fuck off without discussing anything with me at all there's no fucking point in me posting anything.
So, what's it gonna be?
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@LoneMeow: Why are you "pressuring" Hopeless at this point?
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On February 16 2014 19:58 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 19:53 Aquanim wrote: @LoneMeow: Why are you "pressuring" Hopeless at this point? Because I'm not absolutely certain he's the last scum, so having him talk instead of just leaving his vote on me and disappearing for the rest of the day would be good. Who are your more likely other possibilities?
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EBWOP: that wasn't really clear. I'm trying to ask "if not Hopeless, who else are you primarily looking at?"
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Well, in that case, do you have any questions you want to ask me?
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...So that's how this day is gonna be then.
Fine.
##Vote: Hopeless1der
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On February 17 2014 02:35 Oatsmaster wrote: Really aqua? Theres still a day. If hopeless flips scum I will figuratively eat my hat Then explain to me why I'm wrong instead of standing on your fucking soapbox making one-liner, un-useful posts.
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Oats, do you or do you not give enough of a damn about this game to put in some bloody effort today?
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For real Oats. Explain to me how the guy who sheeped onto both scumwagons at the very end without having talked about them AT ALL for the rest of the day is not scummy.
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On February 17 2014 06:20 Hopeless1der wrote: aqua from your POV its me or LM, right? If Coag's scum I'll be furious but I think he's unlikely enough that I can ignore the possibility.
I seriously doubt it's Oats simply because he'd have been bussing Sidesprang really, really hard - but his complete lack of fucks given about the game at this stage is starting to edge it back into "very slightly possible" territory. If Oats and I are both still alive tomorrow maybe I give this one more good think.
But as for today, I think you and LoneMeow are by far more likely.
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On February 17 2014 06:26 Hopeless1der wrote: well you'll notice my vote is on LM but basically you/me/lm are the lynches for the rest of this game imo. I'll gladly appeal to 'suki said so' at this point for reasons people should vote LM today. If Suki had convinced me LoneMeow was scum I wouldn't have voted for her yesterday.
Still, with her townflip... I'll go back and look again.
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Okay, so Suki's argument for LoneMeow scum.
On February 14 2014 01:58 suki wrote:More on LoneMeow. This time, his interactions with Sidesprang. Looking now, I noticed that LoneMeow was actually soft-defending Sidesprang. + Show Spoiler +Day 1 is over, Jonny is flipped scum. On February 10 2014 15:30 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 15:26 jaybrundage wrote:Hei lonemeow. Lets chat. What do you think of Oats, Hopeless1der and Sidesprang? What is your opinion of me and Suki right now? Is balla too townie to be townie. Should we kill him for the lulz + Show Spoiler + Oats - null. Hate the fact that he doesn't give reasoning for his reads but he does that as town so... Hopeless1der - slight lean on town for effort. Sidesprang - no idea, need to re-read.Between you and suki I'd prefer lynching suki right now, I'll get to the reasons when I finish reading things. First he's null on sidesprang. On February 11 2014 02:07 LoneMeow wrote:suki, since you looked into sidesprang's play in previous games, would you agree that his play here looks similar to II Titanic Mafia? On February 11 2014 03:03 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2014 02:43 suki wrote:mm.. I will have to disagree. I'd like to hear your side, what you think are similar. Here are my thoughts: II Titanic: He puts people on his watchlist for not having a desire to scum hunt, being inconsistent, not saying things he likes. + Show Spoiler +On December 11 2013 21:57 sidesprang wrote:Ok so I've been trying to read filters to find some scum. A few people caught my interest. VayneAuthority: Seems to have very little content, and frankly not even a desire to hunt scum at all. I got the impression that he was an experienced mafia player and would thus expect more of him. He is basically tunnelvisioning on the easiest target and dont really provide much outside of that. He said he was memory banking stuff and would come back later day 1. I hope he will provide something else than just slam before the day is over. ##Vote VayneAuthorityAlakaslam: A lot have been said about him allready, he stated before the game that he would play like this, so I will give him that. The question is just can we actually understand what he is trying to tell us. I kinda feel there is something there and if we crack the code we might be able to understand him, maybe it will ger easier if we get a few flips. But however if he is scum it will be very dangerous cause he can just send us on a wild goosechase and still just act like hes doing now and we will be non the wiser. I feel his playstyle forces us to kill him if we dont wanna deal with him, or use a cop check on him if we wanna keep him alive. Unless someone feels they can actually get something out of him ? JarJarDrinks : I dont like this guy atm, might just be because he went after me. But in his filter he says he finds zeroing in on details scummy, and thats what he's been doing half his post. And his case against me with the "anti-town" thing I just find very very weak. I kinda get the feeling he's trying to pick some low hanging fruit with the way he's saying "hey look at this". Purpletrator: Not really said anything I liked, fillered a lot first half and the fucked off. Said he would be back with more, hopefully that is soon. People I like as town atm is Holy for providing a lot of analysis and in general bringing up good points, if he by some odd chance are mafia we should be able to nail him later days because he got loads of info out there. I also like kush and Xata, I in general agree with a lot of what they are saying and they are playing very pro town imo. I know some people wanted to lynch me, I felt I explained myself allready. So if you want me to elaborate you need to specify on what. Random fluff: My name is Sidesprang, not Sidespring. And in Norway we are in general not bad in english, and I hope my posts dont reek bad english Here, LoneMeow is saying 'suki, do you agree that sidesprang's play is a lot like this game when he was blue? IE. he's trying to make me find similarities between sidesprang's blue game and this game. On December 14 2013 22:41 sidesprang wrote:My reasons for voting on Vayne D1: He does nothing, tunnelvisions on slam, the easiest safest target to go on in the start. Just a policy lynch, if it goes through it dont tell us anything about Vayne regardless of how it flips. N1: Tells us day 2 is when the real game will start. D2: Does nothing despite the real game having started, goes on the easiest safest target to go on again LSB. Dont provide any insight. Is more disruptive than helpfull to the town. That is why I wanna lynch Vayne. He is like an Day 1 Alakaslam just without speaking in code. The fact that If we lynch him we can learn from his flip, is just a bonus. If you read my filter and put the pieces togheter you could have seen this. But I guess I also could have put this case togheter when making the vote. Did not really take me that long His self defense is straightforward and non-apologetic. + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2013 20:07 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 13:35 LSB wrote:General comments: purpletrator is being incredibly defensive and showing off as paranoid to me xatalos has been powerplaying quite hard day 1, and typically lynches of major town voices go badly day 1. Push PostPersonally I think the most important post so far is this On December 10 2013 10:10 Holyflare wrote:On December 10 2013 09:42 sidesprang wrote: Ok, so a lot of things going on. I agree we should not let lurkers stay silent, and should poke anyone that stays silent for to long. But there is a lot of value in not spamming down the thread if you are town, that will only make the scummy post harder to see. I'm mainly looking at you Xatalos, as you are on your third page in filter with like half of the post being oneliners. Even if town you will be detrimental to the town if you keep this up! There are others aswell, just used you as an example.
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About Cora there are a few things I did not like and caught my eye. His opening post is not good, and if he's mafia hes basically just buying himself an excuse to lurk for day 1 and then come out day 2 and bring chaos onto the town.
He also deflected a lot in his defence and basically just said "look at X he's scummier than me".
And lastly he asked for people to vote for him if they found him scummy, which is very Anti-Town.
I do not feel cora is mafia yet at least, but definetly worth to look at.
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@Kish, can anyone that have played with him earlier say something about how he plays. He is deffo playing the most anti town atm, but he's also doing it on purpose which is frustrating.
I really really do not like this post as an entry post: A) Sheeps everthing I have mentioned on Cora. B) Uses a big chunk of his entry post saying why cora is displaying mafia associated traits but won't vote him yet? C) Mentions Xatalos in a completely non-inquisitive manner, no justification on a read based on Xan's posts or anything. Sidesprang, what do you think of Xatalos so far? He has been pressured quite hard this game, were his responses more town alignment indicative to you? I've already mentioned how I felt the initial read of Cora was incredibly forced. This can easily attributed to Holyflare's overeagerness. What is important to keep an eye out are the bandwagoners. Or the "bait and switch" approach. Make a flimsy case, wait for someone to quickly jump on your plan, and finger the bandwagoner as mafia. The logic behind this is that very few townies would be willing to push a bad lynch, but a mafia would be willing to push many lynches on greenies regarless of the contents of the lynches. On December 10 2013 11:13 sidesprang wrote:On December 10 2013 10:10 Holyflare wrote:On December 10 2013 09:42 sidesprang wrote: Ok, so a lot of things going on. I agree we should not let lurkers stay silent, and should poke anyone that stays silent for to long. But there is a lot of value in not spamming down the thread if you are town, that will only make the scummy post harder to see. I'm mainly looking at you Xatalos, as you are on your third page in filter with like half of the post being oneliners. Even if town you will be detrimental to the town if you keep this up! There are others aswell, just used you as an example.
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About Cora there are a few things I did not like and caught my eye. His opening post is not good, and if he's mafia hes basically just buying himself an excuse to lurk for day 1 and then come out day 2 and bring chaos onto the town.
He also deflected a lot in his defence and basically just said "look at X he's scummier than me".
And lastly he asked for people to vote for him if they found him scummy, which is very Anti-Town.
I do not feel cora is mafia yet at least, but definetly worth to look at.
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@Kish, can anyone that have played with him earlier say something about how he plays. He is deffo playing the most anti town atm, but he's also doing it on purpose which is frustrating.
I really really do not like this post as an entry post: A) Sheeps everthing I have mentioned on Cora. B) Uses a big chunk of his entry post saying why cora is displaying mafia associated traits but won't vote him yet? C) Mentions Xatalos in a completely non-inquisitive manner, no justification on a read based on Xan's posts or anything. Sidesprang, what do you think of Xatalos so far? He has been pressured quite hard this game, were his responses more town alignment indicative to you? A) I might be blind but I dont see you mention everything I mentioned, but if I still find it scummy would I not be allowed to say it ? B) I don't see a reason for voting anyone yet, he is deffo looking scummy but It's still early in D1. C) The point about Xatalos was a plea to the Town that people should rather focus on more quality over quantity when posting. Can I not do that in a non-inquisitive manner? I said I just used him as an example. About Xatalos, I deffo dont like his opening. He goes after Cora and Kush which I think its fine, but also goes after Slam and Spag which had barely spoken and had not said anything scummy. So Artanis evaluation of him fits nicely, tho I wont say he is mafia because of it. He might just do it to start discussion, as he says he likes all the action happning here. I dont and will keep an eye on him. And his defence was kinda just meta, "saying that is how he plays", and I dont know the guy. Might be true might not be. I dont like meta defences and its another thing that will make me keep an eye on him. Indeed he continues his bandwagony attitude. Although there have only been two posts from him, bait and switch has a 100% success rate (n = 1), and I might as well go with it. I am seriously concerned about his willingness to support lynches without contributing much personal insights. ##unvote##Vote; sidesprang Okay I see I'm off to a rocky start. You might say I'm bandwagoning because I did not have any insight that I came up with myself, but it was the only read I had. Would you rather I stay silent? And I'm not willing to push for a lynch on Cora and Xatalos, I thought I made it clear I did in no way find them scummy enough to vote on yet. I dont like to fling my vote around without justification, and if I did so it would only make me look scummy. And for the second post I dont really see how you can say im bandwagoning, I was asked a question and I answered, I had no intentions of going after Xatalos at all. And now that grack and rayn basically said it was normal play for it. I will just assume that he inteded to create some discussion. He comments on the popular targets of the day. This example is a day 2 post: + Show Spoiler +On December 14 2013 22:04 sidesprang wrote: I see LSB is a very popular target ATM, tbh I'm a bit worried about lynching him, mainly for two reasons.
1. His play so far, has pretty much just been tunneling one guy at the time, trying to bandwagon me for the most part. The problem is, if he is town or mafia its just bad play in general. And its hard to see the difference between bad town and bad mafia imo.
2. And pretty much whatever he flips I dont really see us learning much, which I don't like. I could get with this lynch D1, but a misslynch at this point where we gain little information will be dangerous.
Artanis is another popular target, but I dont really see him very scummy. Just by reading his filter my gut just say's towny. He was also one of the few that defended Cora, and he also got some heat for doing so. His defence felt honest and towny, and I'm not sure a mafia would do that.
Coag is a guy I think we should all take a look at and pressure into giving some oppinions. His filter ATM is just a bunch of one liners with hardly any meaning. He jumps on LSB without really explaining anything, or giving any personal insight. Pandain the guy he replaced did not really do anything either to look towny. Anyone have some history with this guy they can share ?
In this game... His reasons for voting people in the beginning are largely meta: + Show Spoiler +On February 07 2014 18:44 sidesprang wrote: k, dont wanna give out town / nullreads tho cause I don't see the town benefit in doing so.
Currently I got three people on my watchlist.
JayB: This guy was an easy townread for me last game. ATM I'm not getting that at all, he made loads of bad posts so far, which don't make you scum. But I'm not getting the same easy read as last game which makes me wanting to see more contributions from him.
Jonny: A lot of the same as JayB. Had this guy as an easy townread in my Newbie game. Not getting the same vibe atm. He got a Balla case coming up tho, so let's see where that goes.
Oats: He sheeped onto JayB, and seems certain he is scum. Without adding his own thoughts. He was also quick to jump on Suki when aqua mentioned her, which I found wierd seeing how certain he acted against JayB.
Later on, his reasons for voting people seem to be based solely on Jonny flipping: + Show Spoiler +On February 09 2014 22:14 sidesprang wrote:Ok, so from the lynch. Coag and Suki both are looking bad, and have been talked about a lot. Suki as I said is hard for me, she completly fooled me for the most part in Newbie mafia L1, and i'm starting to get scared she is doing it again. I had her as null / leaning town earlier. But her hard attack on Jay looks way worse now that Jonny flipped scum. I mean most of us thought Jonny was good D1 lynch, and the fact that Jay blueclaimed but she stilled thought he was a better lynch I find a off. Yes the claim was wierd, but he did the same shit last game. The Slam / Coag team looks bad mostly for his lack of mentioning of Jonny. Which I wish we could have questioned Slam about. Sadly unless Coag for some reason decides to actually play mafia I doubt we will get much usefull information from him. Might be the best vig shot if we got one imo. Two others that really did not mention Jonny either is Hopeless and Oats, and I think we should look at them for tomorrow aswell. Hopeless on Jonny:Only post before vote where jonny is mentioned: Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 01:29 Hopeless1der wrote:On February 08 2014 00:57 Koshi wrote: Hopeless what do you think of Oats? At a skim, he goes from JayB->JonnyLaw->me->Suki->sidesprang. Can't sit still, pursuing everything he sees for the most part. He completely glances over JonnyLaw and me, but volunteered reads/reasons for the other 3. I think he's town. The vote: Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 23:44 Hopeless1der wrote:On February 08 2014 23:29 Koshi wrote:On February 08 2014 23:17 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 08 2014 23:02 Koshi wrote: You never sheep. Was is dis? I sheep all the time, I just dont say im sheeping Not at all. Did.you agree with Hopeless read on you?How sure are you about jonny red flip? Of course he disagrees with me, he's scum Koshi. /sarcasm I may not be back before deadline, family stuff. I'll try to keep updated by phone ##Unvote ##Vote: JonnyLaw Oats on Jonny:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 11:42 Oatsmaster wrote: Johnny is my second pick for scum but I doubt that him and jay are on the same team due to the pretty much exact same push on koshi. Thoughts?
Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 19:17 Oatsmaster wrote: I gave the first analysis on suki, the only thing I sheeped was aqua asking about suki.
how is suki town because she totally ignores jayb's case and thinks he is too tryhard and therefore scum? URGHGHHH
fine. ##unvote ##vote Sidesprang Firstly his scumreads dont make sense. He summarizes all our filters and doesnt say anything about how it makes us scum, he isnt reading in depth at all to know that I think johnny is town and his townread on suki doesnt make sense either. bleh its hard to phrase but I dont get the feeling like he is questioning anything at all in this game. Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 11:14 Oatsmaster wrote:Hmm johnny says he is gonna post a case on balla. I wanna see how that goea but currently I could lynch Hes like really angry. Angry people are scummy people The Vote: Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 22:58 Oatsmaster wrote: ##unvote bleh. sheep time ##vote johnny I don't really know hopeless playstyle, and I mentioned earlier that Oats can pull this off as either allignment. And now that Jonny flipped scum I'm getting extra worried. Sadly their play this game is mostly short post with little content, so they are hard to read, atleast for me. For now I would think both scum lies in theese four. Anyone have input on oats / hopeless? Don't feel they have been discussed much yet. On February 10 2014 17:17 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 12:30 suki wrote: ##vote Coagulation
I see that Oats has posted a bunch. I want to hear from Sidesprang. Specifically these questions:
1. Who is your number one lynch at the moment for Day 2 and why? 2. Who is scummy to you? 3. Comments on the Jonny lynch and the events leading up to it.
I'll comment on Oats in the morning when I'm not tired and I really hope to see something from Sidesprang. I would prefer to lynch Oats, reasons being. He hardly mentioned jonny, had no reasons for voting him. Has two suspect townreads (hopeless / JayB). He is also not being very helpfull to town. People who is leaning scum to me is Oats, You, Coag, Hopeless. Pretty much in that order I think. Koshi and Balla lead the lynch, they were too me the two guys looking most towny. Koshi prolly died because of it. 3 guys have votes that they pretty much did not explain. You had Jonny as second lynch (I think), but for some reason was very reluctant to get JayB lynched instead. I feel usualy town when having two scumreads are happy lynching either atleast when its such a landslide in votes. The fact that you are no dropping him completly for the day while having gone that hard for him I don't understand. Anyhow, off too school. I'll check in when I got time. He's not going after people for being inconsistent, or for not contributing (see his soft defense of slam/coag), and there's no mention of whether he thinks people are thinking the same as he is. His defense this game is complete dismissal rather than going through the points and explaining himself: + Show Spoiler +On February 07 2014 17:56 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 15:27 suki wrote: Fine, he's not 'objectively' scum. There are more points against him for being scum than the points that I have against sidesprang which is largely a meta read. Quoting this since shorter If you want to apply meta read on me, then do not use my almost 4 year old games. It wont get you anywhere good. You are correct that my mindset and play this game is different. Last month i've been coached and I've shadowed, both for first time. So I do hope I picked up something, that will hopefully improve my play. And he hasn't addressed any of the recent allegations against him at all. And of course he didn't really comment on Jonny. He is commenting on Coag today though. - - - Sidesprang was blue that game. I think his play doesn't really match. Would like to hear your thoughts, LoneMeow. The point about him using far more meta seems somewhat valid. The defense point I'd say doesn't fully hold water because the attack on him was very different. And he did not actually comment on the eventual D1 lynch at all in II Titanic, but then again the Spaghetticus train happened late into the day and he seems to not have been around. All in all, pretty these points you made are pretty inconclusive.I'd like to point out that you changed your read on him earlier from scum to null based partially on II Titanic meta:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 06:02 suki wrote:Sidesprang's meta: + Show Spoiler +Cop in II TitanicOn December 10 2013 09:42 sidesprang wrote: Ok, so a lot of things going on. I agree we should not let lurkers stay silent, and should poke anyone that stays silent for to long. But there is a lot of value in not spamming down the thread if you are town, that will only make the scummy post harder to see. I'm mainly looking at you Xatalos, as you are on your third page in filter with like half of the post being oneliners. Even if town you will be detrimental to the town if you keep this up! There are others aswell, just used you as an example.
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About Cora there are a few things I did not like and caught my eye. His opening post is not good, and if he's mafia hes basically just buying himself an excuse to lurk for day 1 and then come out day 2 and bring chaos onto the town.
He also deflected a lot in his defence and basically just said "look at X he's scummier than me".
And lastly he asked for people to vote for him if they found him scummy, which is very Anti-Town.
I do not feel cora is mafia yet at least, but definetly worth to look at.
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@Kish, can anyone that have played with him earlier say something about how he plays. He is deffo playing the most anti town atm, but he's also doing it on purpose which is frustrating.
This is pretty much his first post in the game. Notice he writes a short thing about policy and then starts scum hunting. Most of his posts in this game are scum hunting, but I didn't find many difficult questions in this one. Town in Newbie Mini Mafia LIOn January 06 2014 08:10 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 07:47 TheChyz wrote: Why so eager to have people help you achieve your goals? Maybe they don't agree with them. If onlywonderboy is right, then your rules help you if you are scum as well since you seem to be very active in which lynching lurkers would help your cause of staying alive. Also having people fight can cause confusion in the town. So I don't see a reason why people should just help you achieve your goals. You don't see a reason why people should help Bella with creating a "tough environment for mafia to hide in and lynch some mafia" ? Starts the game off with a pointed question trying to find TheChyz's motives. On January 06 2014 08:59 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 08:23 Balla24 wrote: Let's hear some opinions on some people. Sidesprang what do you think of OWB and thechyz so far? etc etc
Be analytical. I'm already feeling a bit weird with thechyz but it's preliminary obviously and i'm waiting for him to post some more. @ onlywonderboyatm he is just null for me. from his PoV he has only stated obvious things so far. It not really contributing atm, but its to early to fault him for that. And he does say he is going to more active and contribute with meaningfull analysis, so as long as he atleast tries to do this we should be able to read him in the future. @ thechyz, I don't like him atm. In his first post he says he agrees with you and dont mind lynching lurkers to discourage lurking. But then in his second post he says he see no reason to why people should help you achivieving that same agenda he just agreed with. Feels very much like a contradiction to me. This is his third post in the game and he's pointing out contradictions. On January 07 2014 15:33 sidesprang wrote: @theDragoon Who would you vote for now and why ?
Also, why did you change your mind and wanted to defend yourself afterall ? Questioning TheDragoon who was the top lynch candidate of the day. sidesprang was wary that the lynch on theDragoon was going to smoothly and tried getting information from theDragoon before the lynch. Miller in TL Mafia XXHe spends most of the game apologizing for his low post quantity. scum in TL Mafia XVIIILike sidesprang pointed out, this scum game is from 4 years ago, something that I didn't think about as I was just looking through past games and not noticing the date. Regardless, I'll include some posts here to show where my line of thought came from in my case that I wrote up. On February 14 2010 12:00 sidesprang wrote: I definatly agree that we should not lynch someone based on day one clues, unless someone can make a foolproof case. But they should definatly be discussed and looked through, cause they could help us put the pieces toghter at a later day.
And it also gives us something to talk about, and im pretty sure the more posts there are the more information one could gather from this game and put it togheter. policy talk to start the game On February 15 2010 00:30 sidesprang wrote: L's point about beeing 20 mafia and that it will take a long time before we get two different clues on a single mafia i dont really think is true.
Last game i was in there was 8 mafia and they had 3kp. meaning at day 3 we in the worst case scenario had 1 mafia with double clues.
In this game there is 20 mafia and 6 KP, meaning in the worst case we would have 4 double clues at day 4. But you with there beeing possible 12 mafia kills and 2 lynces one should think/hope that some mafia would die, and we get double clues at day 3 again.
Two posts later, setup talk. On February 16 2010 08:05 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 07:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 16 2010 07:44 redtooth wrote:On February 16 2010 06:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Spamming the thread full of what shit? Posting an objective compilation of everyones arguments? Compiling voting history? Defending myself when redtooth and Ace accused me of being mafia? Finally getting Bill Murray to justify his statements? Don't put me on the same level as BM TT___TT
I guess for the time being Empyrean is our best bet. Ver did a great job of pointing out the inconsistency in his pro-town/mafia behavior from past games and the clue connection is just very very very very strong.
Redtooth did a decent job of defending himself, or at least why it doesn't make sense that he and Ace are both in the same mafia family. His argument for him and ace not being in different mafia families doesn't make sense. "Why would mafia defend a mafia from another family/not mafia"
Unless he wanted to discourage clue analysis because he fears it will hurt his mafia family, or wanted to defend Ace because regardless of Ace's role his argumentation is successfully dividing the town. If redtooth is mafia, he has no way of knowing Ace's role anyway, so saying "i wouldn't defend another families mafia" makes no sense because he doesn't know who those people are. I really doubt the mafia are going to ONLY defend one another, look what happened when I got lynched in the last game. By analyzing who I defended/supported/whose clues I ignored the entire rest of the mafia family was caught.
I'm not accusing you of being mafia redtooth, I'm just pointing out that the argument falls short.
I'm voting for L because so far his arguments have been extremely consistent, he's been trying to get the town moving/discouraging waste posts, and providing excellent clue analysis. Redtooth shouldn't have a problem with this, don't you want L as the other elected role anyway? you're right. actually that's exactly what i want you to do. i want L as mayor and i want to be pardoner. no vigilantes means pardoner is very very powerful if he is mafia. as for my argument in why it's sort of illogical for ace and me to be mafia in separate families is because consider the alternative: i could have silently held back and not brought attention to myself instead of being in the middle of controversy between the town. knowing previous games, L vs Ace was going to become a shitstorm whether i stepped in or not. instead i chose to argue a point, blew my top (admittedly more than a few times), and got into a position where my alignment was pretty damn clear. and if Ace isn't on my team (which would be the case if i was mafia and he wasn't in my family) then i would want him dead regardless of what role/alignment he was. and guys i've said this before but i genuinely believed L was full of shit. now i only think he is half shitty but i've expressed my disdain for day 1 clues enough already. so it's not about mafia ONLY defending each other. it's about a mafia risking his own neck to defend a good player that's not on his team. THAT is something that doesn't make sense. so if it doesn't make sense then that means i'm not mafia. yay we are finally caught up. Fair point, now that is a good argument. Why are we assuming day 1 clues are bad based off previous games? There are 20 mafia. It's highly unlikely that mafia will be getting 6 kills a night, I'd say 4 MAYBE 5 is more likely. Why? 1) Overlapping kills. The mafia are simply going to hit the same targets. Let's say, for example, Player X is green. He's been painted red by a lot of people and thus might be hit by both families. This could happen with anyone who was painted red but is not mafia of either family. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if even 2 kills overlap. 2) Smart medics. While mafia might avoid really big targets early on because they will be protected by medics, medics who are able to anticipate mafia goals will help reduce kills. With 20 mafia, let's assume we get 5 hits a day. We don't see overlapping clues until DAY SIX DAY SIXIf everyone feels uncomfortable with Day 1 clue analysis just based on previous experience, I guess there isnt really anything I can say. But let's please not ignore clues on Day 2. If someone makes an accusation based on clues at you, provide an alternative. Simply saying "day 1 clues are trash" isn't enough, especially when you aren't addressing the point of just how many mafia there are in this game and how strong clues need to be. Also redtooth, I'd like you to clear something up for me. I found a mildly disturbing inconsistency in your arguments. While L was painting Ace red based on clues you said clue analysis on day 1 is trash; that's fine. You also said the clues pointing to ace specifically were shaky and not well thought-out. Then merely a few posts later you said that the clues pointing toward Ace were so obvious/numerous he can't be mafia. Was there a change of heart here? what happened? Man your so wrong about the overlapping clues thing. If we dont see overlapping clues before day 6, it is because the mafia only hits the town. And that is not realistic. The mafia hitting 1/3 each lynch seems realistic if not to low to me. Then we have 6 dead by day 3. And already overlapping clues. Altho the mafia would prolly have overlapping hits. But my point still stands. We will see overlapping hits WAY before day 6, and if we dont we're allready doomed cause we've lost half our town The next post, more setup talk. On February 21 2010 12:10 sidesprang wrote: i changed my vote to quickstriker, but i dont see why we should not double lynch tomorrow. Since i feel we have alot of good clues to work of, and we will get more.
So you're gonna have to give more reasons for me to take away my double lynch vote. No reason for his vote. On February 26 2010 16:59 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2010 16:00 Scamp wrote: I'd also appreciate it if Sidesprang and Tredmasta would speak up. Especially Sidesprang in order to explain his last vote. First, my votes are not set in stone. If so i would not have voted so early. But its the weekend coming up and i know im definatly going out on saturday(and the voting closes 1AM(or something like that) in norway. So i had to vote something in case i wont have the time later, ofc i could have abstained but i think scamp is mafia and that L might be and he voting scamp, because of the cluelink towards you. voting L, because he has lead this town on so many wrong turns. And i don't see any real proof of him beeing non mafia, and if he is mafia he has gotten away with far to much allready. reasons for not voting johnnyspaz who i think is definatly mafia, let the other mafia team kill him. And to the clue link from malongo, im not really sure what aristocracy of money means but for the rest of the first bold sentence i feel that is a huge strech. And im not decafchickens friend And the bold part number two. That has to be a clue to johhnyspaz, i mean he gets turn into a pincushion. And he has a picture of sonic the hedgehog. Basically this is his only scum hunting effort in the game. Again, his filter was super short, but the thing that I noticed is the lack of scumhunting compared to his other town games. But I missed something big in my meta analysis.. That is, sidesprang was scum in the original Shadowed game. Scum in Shadowed MafiaOn February 04 2014 10:14 sidesprang wrote:Lol wtf game started today afterall. Anyhow regarding policy shit, not much to say, think it's covered allready. But yeh, look for content instead not postcount. We do NOT want ppl spamming useless shit. Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 09:47 jaybrundage wrote:Jonny as you have had alot of experience with Balla as scum how would you say he plays as a scum player. Whats his tells if you will Guess your not in the database either huh jonny XD If your gonna compile your games you might as well make a post in the mafia database with them listed and a quick review :o Why did you want Jonny to out Ballas scumtells in the thread this early before Balla even had a chance to play into them ? On February 04 2014 12:29 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 11:25 jaybrundage wrote:On February 04 2014 10:14 sidesprang wrote:Lol wtf game started today afterall. Anyhow regarding policy shit, not much to say, think it's covered allready. But yeh, look for content instead not postcount. We do NOT want ppl spamming useless shit. On February 04 2014 09:47 jaybrundage wrote:Jonny as you have had alot of experience with Balla as scum how would you say he plays as a scum player. Whats his tells if you will Guess your not in the database either huh jonny XD If your gonna compile your games you might as well make a post in the mafia database with them listed and a quick review :o Why did you want Jonny to out Ballas scumtells in the thread this early before Balla even had a chance to play into them ? Sidesprung you asked me a question I responded. There is alot going in the thread right now. I don't just want to see content I want to see some post count too. People are conversing, poking at one another a back and forth. You make one question at me and you disappeared. Don't you have anything else to comment on, or respond to my post or make a comment on another post or give your opinion. Anything really. Dropping one post and leaving the thread is not the environment town should be fostering. Thru discussion like i was talking about earlier we can learn other alignments and discover ulterior motives. Ill give you somethings to post on. What do you think of Balla's early vote on LM? Was it appropriate given LM"s posts? What do you think of my response to your post? Does what I say made sense? Do you agree that I should have questioned Jonny about Balla's scum game or should I have not said anything? Why do you think Suki poke at Jonnys two opinions? Do you think Suki got defensive after Balla inquired about her post? Why do you think Suki would post about jonny if not trying to discern if hes mafia or not? (These questions go out to Suki as well?) Who is your towniest read at the moment? Who do you think is most likely scum? Do you believe in policy lynching lurkers? What is the lowest amount someone should be expected to post? Firstly its Sidesprang, not sidesprung or whatever else ppl think it is. I don't mind Balla voting for LM, because I think if he keeps on playing like this he will hopefully be easy to read. As for why he voted I dont really agree with. LM's stance on koshi's "plan" is kinda like mine. Judge people based on content not number of posts, and also only reason to lynch lurkers is if there are no better options available. I liked your response, you had a reason for asking it and you had logic backing it up. Answer felt honest. Tho I do not agree with your logic. It's nice and all generating discussion, but I dont think going over ppl's meta this early is wise. As I think it would be harder to use meta against players if it's been discussed in thread first. The whole suki / jonny deal requires more thought if I wanna read something out of it. Aka atm I don't really know, and I will read more up on that tomorrow when I got better time. I got some people whom I feel are playing protown atm, but I see no reason sharing townreads at this point. I don't have scumreads atm, tho I got a bit interested in Suki since she disliked your post. A post I liked cause you are doing what I think you should be doing with lurkers (get them to post, so you can read them, not lynch them blindly). People should post enough to be readable and enough to get their scumreads out. I don't belive in a set number. his first two posts in the game. Basically... He doesn't spend time on policy talk and he starts hunting right away. So yeah. Taking this into account my case on sidesprang doesn't hold any water. Based on the games that I linked in my original post, I think that my conclusions were reasonable - policy talk in his scum game and scum hunting in his town games. But taking into account the previous Shadowed game where he was scum it's obvious he's changed (read improved) his scum game quite a bit. Anyways, I suppose I'm null on sidesprang for now. I'll take a closer look at him later. What's different now so that the same meta points at him being scum? Refuting my reads on sidesprang. Again saying 'you went from scum to null on sidesprang based on this game where he was blue. What's so different now?' On February 11 2014 03:06 LoneMeow wrote: Also, what besides meta makes you think he's scum? You earlier quoted one post as "pretty weak", what else is there? Basically trying to discredit me by pointing out that I have a weak case on sidesprang. On February 12 2014 05:51 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 05:43 Balla24 wrote:On February 12 2014 05:32 LoneMeow wrote: Balla24, how does sidesprang's D1 posting fit with the idea that he's scum? There's nothing super convincing in your case, I'm not sold yet. His day1 is so null. In every way. Null in the fact that reading it doesn't give me a read one way or another. Null in the sense that all his reads were basically null except for town reads and eventually Jonny. If you look at it, you basically have no idea who he thinks is scum until he votes Jonny because whenever he calls someone scummy he's like "but then there's this that looks good and this -> so I don't know what to think". The fact that he can't stay consistent in day2 from his day1 is bad. That's the important part. Trying to lynch Coag for slam being scummy even though he never called Slam scum is pretty bad. Now that you say it, I see it too. The only thing he has said about Alakaslam before the lynch is: Show nested quote +On February 09 2014 02:41 sidesprang wrote: Alakaslam: I buy that he has been busy with work and whatnot. As I don't think scum!slam would lurk in any way I dont see a reason for lying about it. That being said I dont think his enterance is very good. Starts by complaining about how Balla / Suki trolled early game, which has been pointed out is something he is very capable aswell. And it was obviously something that was prewritten before Balla got the roles. Why bring that shit up again, its a null tell. His points are just fluff. He then says he is going to try some filters, but looks like he only read JayB, maybe the easiest one to pick on at the time.
@Slam Did you read up on the rest of the players? Do you got any other reads? What are your thoughts on Jonny?
I wish I was more confident on this lynch. ##Vote: sidesprang And his eventual vote on sidesprang which is a really weak 'I guess I see how he's scummy'. This post demonstrates that in Day 2, LoneMeow put significant effort to discrediting my case against sidesprang and push me towards thinking sidesprang's play might be similar to his blue play. His eventual vote on sidesprang is weak. Two points which basically blow this out of the water:
1) LoneMeow appears to have been questioning Suki about her Sidesprang read to get a better read on Suki (see the last part). This is pretty much exactly what I was doing when I questioned Oats about his Sidesprang read. Perhaps LM has been less open about his thought process than me... but then again most people are.
2) Literal quote from Suki, like four posts before:
Soft defending scum, even your own scum read, is not scummy. Town does not know scum alignments so obviously they're going to try to look at things from all directions.
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On February 14 2014 12:01 suki wrote: After I flip, scum will have to mislynch twice in order to win the game.
The following people I think are town, and this is pretty much the order I have from most to least townie.
Oats - For leading the lynch against sidesprang. For his pressure play. Jay - For claiming cop. I think he'll be shot N3. His Day 2 was decent. His response to my case today on who he chose for his cop checks was really townie too. Aqua - Townie play. Townie interaction with sidesprang. Can't see Aqua being scum. Hopeless - Big filter. Townie Day 3. If he starts playing a different tune once I'm dead I guess take a closer look at him. Coag - Counter lynch to sidesprang. Although he hasn't done anything for town. Meta-wise though he seems more likely to be town as he is playing the game now...
LoneMeow I think is scummy. If LoneMeow isn't scum I really don't know cuz everyone else looks town to me. LoneMeow hasn't stuck his neck out, conveniently hasn't read anybody as town. Has thrown suspicion on everyone today except Oats. In day 1 and 2 he sort of lingered in the background and didn't have any effect on the lynches.
When I die lynch LoneMeow 100%. After he's gone I guess it's between Coag and Hopeless? But yeah I dunno.
Anyways I don't really have much else to say. If it isn't LoneMeow then I'm completely lost on who scum would be. Everyone else just looks town to me. Sorry I couldn't help town any more than this. I have no idea why suki thought Hopeless had a townie day3 - so I can't really adress this point.
The "not reading anyone as town" part I'm conflicted on. On the one hand, it is typically townie to be suspicious of everybody else since you have less knowledge than the scum. On the other hand, it perhaps suits scum agenda to be able to plausibly lynch a couple of people in a row rather than being 100% convinced about each of three mislynches. Still, though, I don't see this as conclusive at all.
A point in LM's favour here is that he wasn't just saying "oh I think anyone could be scum" - he was going to at least a little effort to IMPROVE his reads. Which is not something I've seen much of in Hopeless' filter at any point in this game.
As for day 1 and 2... I'd argue he had a greater effect on the lynches than Hopeless.
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Now, I don't claim it's impossible that LM is the last scum and Hopeless is town. There are certainly a fair few ambiguous points about LoneMeow's filter that I'm not sure which way to read. But I do not currently see that as the most likely possibility.
If you disagree with me, don't just sit on your ass - CONVINCE me.
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well a significant portion of suki's read on me was the fact that I called everyone town except her. LoneMeow was the least substantiated read of them, so that may look "convenient" for me but when he's the next scummiest player I don't think I can really be blamed for that. I guess I can see where she was coming from with that. Problem is, I then have the question "If a scum *knows* that leaving himself with many options is scummy, is he more likely to do that or to go balls-to-the-wall on some townie and afterwards say 'Whoops guys, I guess I was wrong'?"
@Obs QT: This game really does get hard when nobody else gives a shit any more...
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On February 17 2014 07:00 Hopeless1der wrote: here's the problem I have aqua....Coag is most likely to be alive tomorrow. He's going to try to lynch you if you are around. In that scenario, I obviously want LoneMeow lynched today. On the other hand, if we lynch you today then I have no idea wtf coag will do. So its in my/(what I believe to be town's) best interest to lynch lonemeow then you if the game still continues.
With that in mind, who do you think you have a better chance with if you have to deal with coag tomorrow, me or LM? To be honest I'm praying I can get Oats to talk some sense into Coag before he (probably) dies if that happens. I'd far prefer to lynch the last scum today than go into a 3-man LYLO with Coag though.
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What I'm trying to say here is that I'm not deciding who to lynch today based on "which way do I have a better chance tomorrow", I'm deciding who to lynch based on "who do I think is scum".
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On February 17 2014 07:00 Hopeless1der wrote: here's the problem I have aqua....Coag is most likely to be alive tomorrow. He's going to try to lynch you if you are around. In that scenario, I obviously want LoneMeow lynched today. On the other hand, if we lynch you today then I have no idea wtf coag will do. So its in my/(what I believe to be town's) best interest to lynch lonemeow then you if the game still continues.
With that in mind, who do you think you have a better chance with if you have to deal with coag tomorrow, me or LM? Of course, the problem is that this eventuality suits you perfectly if you're the last scum, too.
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Can you explain why you asked that question, Hopeless?
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...what.
are you saying that you think I'm townreading lonemeow for asking random shit?
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'cos basically the only reason I can think of for you to ask that question is to make me think the following:
- Coag has said he's very much town on Lonemeow and scum-ish on Hopeless - therefore, if LYLO is Coag-Aqua-Lone I will be lynched, whereas in Coag-Aqua-Hopeless I could conceviably convince Coag to vote you - therefore, I should lynch Lone because that way maybe I survive tomorrow
basically you're trying to convince me to vote Lone without actually trying to convince me that Lone is actually scum.
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which, in these sad days, doesn't even convince me that you're scum, stupid as that is from a town perspective
fml
it's definitely a black mark though
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On February 17 2014 08:16 Hopeless1der wrote:... Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 08:09 Aquanim wrote: 'cos basically the only reason I can think of for you to ask that question is to make me think the following:
- Coag has said he's very much town on Lonemeow and scum-ish on Hopeless - therefore, if LYLO is Coag-Aqua-Lone I will be lynched, whereas in Coag-Aqua-Hopeless I could conceviably convince Coag to vote you - therefore, I should lynch Lone because that way maybe I survive tomorrow
basically you're trying to convince me to vote Lone without actually trying to convince me that Lone is actually scum. basically...yes. In terms of longevity its your best play I think. so?
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what makes you think I'm interested in longevity?
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sure, but regardless of who else is at LYLO I think my chances of convincing coag to vote anyone but me are pretty fucking slim
so I'm lynching who I think is the last scum today, and if I'm wrong so be it, we lose
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On February 17 2014 08:28 Hopeless1der wrote: the fact that you cant be 100% unless you are the godfather. ...hold on just one second.
How do you know mafia have a godfather?
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On February 17 2014 08:36 Hopeless1der wrote: jay had a greencheck on you. If you are 100% certain it means you are scum and also the GF. fair enough. forgot about that check.
still though that's a pretty pisspoor reason to vote for Lonemeow
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you get anywhere with that read of lone Coag?
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On February 17 2014 12:13 Oatsmaster wrote: anyway hopeless sheeping onto 2 scum lynches is what makes him town not scum. ...and lonemeow doing the same thing, but saying that he's suspicious of the scum earlier in the day, makes him scum?
are you even fucking trying to win this game any more oats
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If you have an actual argument why Lone is scummier than Hopeless and why I should vote for Lone, then spit it out
otherwise stop wasting my time
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So you're just going to wander into the thread, drop one or two unsubstantiated one-liners then piss off again.
Why do I even bother.
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And yes, I'm mad. I didn't have much of any time to play yesterday and I still have MORE THAN HALF OF THE POSTS MADE THIS CYCLE. Whichever of the rest of you are town should be ashamed of yourself.
My time has been well and truly pissed down the drain by the lot of you this game.
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^ Directed at the people still alive in this game. All you dead townies, we are cool.
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On February 17 2014 12:42 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 12:21 Aquanim wrote:On February 17 2014 12:13 Oatsmaster wrote: anyway hopeless sheeping onto 2 scum lynches is what makes him town not scum. ...and lonemeow doing the same thing, but saying that he's suspicious of the scum earlier in the day, makes him scum? are you even fucking trying to win this game any more oats yes exactly. ........
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Explain to me why a scum expressing suspicion of their scumbuddies is more likely than a scum completely ignoring their scumbuddies even though they are a major focus of discussion in the thread.
In short words because I'm finding this concept exceptionally difficult to fathom.
Go.
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On February 17 2014 12:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Does me having confirmed that hopeless is town make any difference to you aqua? You are soooo tunneled. I don't have enough respect for your reads to sheep you without knowing your reasons.
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How exactly have you "confirmed that hopeless is town"?
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On February 17 2014 12:48 Oatsmaster wrote: Because a bus is only useful if you get cred for it, why jump on a lynch already happening in a totally suspicious manner that doesnt give you cred? Also LM was attacking Coag for the majority of the last day and only switched when suki and balla switched. Super opportunistic. Hopeless' vote was unnecessary on all occasions and he didnt give a shit about looking like hes sheeping.
You say you have been doing all the stuff this cycle, but all that stuff just consists of you dumping more and more shit on hopeless, hardly a good way to convince people. Do you think a scum Hopeless would evaluate that situation on Day 1 and think "I'm just going to leave my vote on someone random with no reasoning while my scumbuddy gets lynched, that will make me look super-good"? No. Sheeping onto the Jonny wagon made him no towncred, but NOTHING he did at that point was going to make him towncred.
"<Hopeless> was attacking Coag for the majority of day 2 and only switched when suki, balla, <Aqua and LM> switched. Super opportunistic." Wow, that was an easy point to refute.
Describing my play this cycle as "dumping shit on Hopeless" is a lazy misrepresentation. I'm trying to get my scumread lynched, which is more than I can say for you.
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On February 17 2014 12:48 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 12:46 Aquanim wrote: How exactly have you "confirmed that hopeless is town"? Why would I tell scum how? ...to save him from being mislynched if he is indeed town? dunno if you've noticed, but votes are currently 2-2 and Coag has the hammer.
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On February 17 2014 12:59 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 12:54 Aquanim wrote:On February 17 2014 12:48 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 17 2014 12:46 Aquanim wrote: How exactly have you "confirmed that hopeless is town"? Why would I tell scum how? ...to save him from being mislynched if he is indeed town? dunno if you've noticed, but votes are currently 2-2 and Coag has the hammer. I dunno if you've noticed, but there is no way hopeless can be confirmed town.
On February 17 2014 12:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Does me having confirmed that hopeless is town make any difference to you aqua? You are soooo tunneled. what are you even saying now, I do not understand
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On February 17 2014 12:58 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 12:53 Aquanim wrote:On February 17 2014 12:48 Oatsmaster wrote: Because a bus is only useful if you get cred for it, why jump on a lynch already happening in a totally suspicious manner that doesnt give you cred? Also LM was attacking Coag for the majority of the last day and only switched when suki and balla switched. Super opportunistic. Hopeless' vote was unnecessary on all occasions and he didnt give a shit about looking like hes sheeping.
You say you have been doing all the stuff this cycle, but all that stuff just consists of you dumping more and more shit on hopeless, hardly a good way to convince people. Do you think a scum Hopeless would evaluate that situation on Day 1 and think "I'm just going to leave my vote on someone random with no reasoning while my scumbuddy gets lynched, that will make me look super-good"? No. Sheeping onto the Jonny wagon made him no towncred, but NOTHING he did at that point was going to make him towncred. "<Hopeless> was attacking Coag for the majority of day 2 and only switched when suki, balla, <Aqua and LM> switched. Super opportunistic." Wow, that was an easy point to refute. Describing my play this cycle as "dumping shit on Hopeless" is a lazy misrepresentation. I'm trying to get my scumread lynched, which is more than I can say for you. 2 people are on LM same as 2 people on Hopeless. Except hopeless switched when it was beyond a doubt, LM switched when it was 4-4. I think scum hopeless would read the situation way better and hard bus johnny. He didnt even really push jay, just poked him a bit and kept calling him scum. now that is a point worth at least considering... I shall consider it.
Not sure why you think "not even really pushing jay" makes hopeless town tho.
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@Oatsmaster:
Hopeless' vote for Jonny:
On February 08 2014 23:44 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 23:29 Koshi wrote:On February 08 2014 23:17 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 08 2014 23:02 Koshi wrote: You never sheep. Was is dis? I sheep all the time, I just dont say im sheeping Not at all. Did.you agree with Hopeless read on you?How sure are you about jonny red flip? Of course he disagrees with me, he's scum Koshi. /sarcasm I may not be back before deadline, family stuff. I'll try to keep updated by phone ##Unvote ##Vote: JonnyLaw
Hopeless' last post before his vote for Jonny:
On February 08 2014 12:24 Hopeless1der wrote: i hadnt noticed the omgus trend. that is interesting to note.
Note that there is a 12 hour gap between the two. Previous to Hopeless' last post on Feb 8 12:24 was my vote and Koshi's vote on Jonny. In between the two was Balla's vote and almost all of the thread swing against Jonny.
At the time Hopeless left the thread, the momentum had not yet really swung against Jonny - so I don't think he'd have chosen to hard bus Jonny at that point. When he came back it was too late to make it look particularly good.
This does weaken my own point as well in that a fair bit of the thread discussion of Jonny took place while Hopeless was absent. Still somewhat scummy that he didn't talk to or about him at all before that... but no longer a slam-dunk.
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You know what? It doesn't really matter at the moment, but as a show of good faith:
##Unvote
Let's talk some more.
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On February 17 2014 14:28 Oatsmaster wrote: uh sorry went out.
What makes LM townie Aqua?
To be honest, it's a pretty weak townread. I like that he's been asking a lot of questions, I think throughout the game he's been curious about other players' point of view which is primiarily a town trait.
I don't get anything conclusive either way from his attitude to either of the lynches - he expressed some suspicion of Jonny early, but nothing implausible as a bus. His attitude to the Sidesprang lynch was very similar to mine - namely, overridden until very late in the day by an intense desire to lynch Coag.
If LoneMeow is scum and therefore knew that JayB was both town and probably a power role, this post strikes me as pretty weird from that perspective.
I don't much like that he's voting Hopeless as a "pressure" vote today - that strikes me as off.
That being said, if I was certain Hopeless was the scum out of these two I'd have voted him at the start of the day, rather than later on like I did. If you - or anybody else - wants to try to convince me I'm wrong, I'm listening.
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EBWOP: Yes, the fourth section of that post is arguing in a different direction to the others. I don't find everything about Lone townie. Deal with it
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On February 17 2014 15:10 Oatsmaster wrote: wanna lynch coag?
Whether I want to and whether I think it's more likely to result in a town win are two different things here. With regard to the second:
If Coag is certainly just gonna lynch me tomorrow if we mislynch today, from my perspective (knowing I'm town) if he is town then we lose nothing by lynching him today. The difference would be that instead of you, me and Coag choosing between Hopeless and Lone it would probably just be me (since you're the most likely shot). Which is something of a downside, but meh. It's still lynch-scum-or-lose.
Obviously if Coag's scum we have to lynch him to win.
The point about Coag's scum meta being to do absolutely nothing useful at all, and him doing slightly more than that this game, remains true - but I'm still unconvinced that Coag is actually just completely incapable of doing anything as scum. Just because it's what he's done the last couple of times isn't conclusive.
IIRC the only other reason to think Coag is town is the rageposts he made, which I think could possibly be posted by a scum Coag. Remember, he was pissed off about that town-seal stuff before he even got his role in this game.
tl;dr I can't find any particularly good reason not to lynch Coag. No huge downside if he's town considering if the game runs into tomorrow we'd probably mislynch him or me anyway, and we win if he's scum (which I reckon is still more-or-less possible.)
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Coag being scum would explain why I've been dubious about every single lynch I've considered for the last two days :/
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@Coagulation: Why do you think I am scum?
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Oats, my problem here is that neither of the other three have played in a manner today which I can easily ascribe to townie motivation.
Coag dropped one or two comments in the thread then left. Then again, one of these was pretty interesting... I'll get to it in a second.
LoneMeow wandered into the thread, put a vote on Hopeless as "pressure" then wandered out. I feel like the time for solely "pressure" votes is well and truly over and this might have been Lone trying to not take some responsibility for this vote. Then again, he has at least justified his vote of Hopeless.
Hopeless tried to convince me to vote for LoneMeow with some BS argument, which notably included no analysis of his own alignment nor LoneMeow's. I feel like a town Hopeless should be at least kind of comfortable explaining what in his main scumread's play makes them scum, but the only reason I can find in Hopeless' filter for LM being scum is process of elimination.
I'd actually forgotten about this little exchange he had with Coag:
On February 17 2014 03:55 Coagulation wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 03:48 Hopeless1der wrote: If I agree to lynch aqua (and he isn't scum) do you agree to lynch LM the next day, coag? This is the scummiest fucking post all game. Like how the fuck do I know whats going to happen between now and 2 lynches later. reads like the last scum setting up mislynches. Do you see how scummy that shit sounds? So Hopeless tried to make some deal with Coag to lynch me, then LoneMeow. AND he tried to make some deal with me to lynch LoneMeow.
I can kind of see how he might do this as a townie, if he was absolutely and positively convinced that Lone was scum and was willing to make any deal to see him lynched. Problem is, he doesn't have a case on Lone, just some PoE... I don't see how he can be sure enough about LM-scum to make this make sense from a townie point of view.
Oats, if you can see how this makes any kind of sense from a townie Hopeless let me know. In the meantime:
##Vote: Hopeless1der
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The thing about either of the situations Hopeless is trying to push is that I feel like they both involve him surviving through LYLO as a focus.
If he lynches me then Lone with Coag, he survives. If he convinces me to vote Lone, he has a pretty good chance of surviving the Hopeless-Coag-Aqua LYLO.
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Hmm... I guess that isn't really the point, any townie would also not want to be lynched themselves.
But I feel like there's a fundamental disconnect between being willing to work with me to lynch LoneMeow and being willing to work with Coag to lynch me.
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On February 17 2014 22:21 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 17:22 LoneMeow wrote:Actually, now that I went back and checked the timing of things Aquanim looks very town for the D1 push on JonnyLaw, far more than I originally thought. When he made this big push to get JonnyLaw lynched the votes, if I'm not mistaken, were like this: Jaybrundage ( 3 ) : Balla24, Koshi, suki, Hopeless1der, Oatsmaster, Alakaslam JonnyLaw ( 3 ) : suki, Koshi, Aquanim, Balla24 Alakaslam ( 0 ) : jaybrundage Sidesprang ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster suki ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster, Balla24, Jaybrundage Koshi ( 1 ) : Jaybrundage, JonnyLaw Balla24 ( 0 ) : Jaybrundage, suki Aquanim ( 0 ) : Balla24There's always a slight chance it was a bus given how JonnyLaw was playing and how much suspicion he was getting, but I'd say that he looks town enough for now. So I checked, the following people were voicing suspicion on JonnyLaw before Aquanim posted his case: suki jaybrundage Balla24 Koshi myself So considering the timing, it could very well have been a bus but that's pretty inconclusive. Aquanim, were you voting Coagulation on D2 because you thought he was scum or because he was a liability? Both. I thought he was reasonably likely to be scum, and if he was town would likely either be mislynched later or contribute to a mislynch at LYLO - hence, a liability. I'm sure my reasons are in my filter, if you look.
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Coag why do you think hopeless is town now? last I heard you were scum on him
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fuck you're gone and won't be back. Is ANYONE here.
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...okay.
Well, if I want to lynch you I can't even unvote otherwise precedence passes to LM. If I unvote, Lone gets lynched unless we both vote Coag.
Wonderful.
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If LoneMeow is scum I simply can't fathom this post:
On February 17 2014 22:21 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 17:22 LoneMeow wrote:Actually, now that I went back and checked the timing of things Aquanim looks very town for the D1 push on JonnyLaw, far more than I originally thought. When he made this big push to get JonnyLaw lynched the votes, if I'm not mistaken, were like this: Jaybrundage ( 3 ) : Balla24, Koshi, suki, Hopeless1der, Oatsmaster, Alakaslam JonnyLaw ( 3 ) : suki, Koshi, Aquanim, Balla24 Alakaslam ( 0 ) : jaybrundage Sidesprang ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster suki ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster, Balla24, Jaybrundage Koshi ( 1 ) : Jaybrundage, JonnyLaw Balla24 ( 0 ) : Jaybrundage, suki Aquanim ( 0 ) : Balla24There's always a slight chance it was a bus given how JonnyLaw was playing and how much suspicion he was getting, but I'd say that he looks town enough for now. So I checked, the following people were voicing suspicion on JonnyLaw before Aquanim posted his case: suki jaybrundage Balla24 Koshi myself So considering the timing, it could very well have been a bus but that's pretty inconclusive. Aquanim, were you voting Coagulation on D2 because you thought he was scum or because he was a liability? Why would a scum come into the thread and start pressuring the only other person voting with them?
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On February 17 2014 22:57 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 22:42 Aquanim wrote:On February 17 2014 22:21 LoneMeow wrote:On February 14 2014 17:22 LoneMeow wrote:Actually, now that I went back and checked the timing of things Aquanim looks very town for the D1 push on JonnyLaw, far more than I originally thought. When he made this big push to get JonnyLaw lynched the votes, if I'm not mistaken, were like this: Jaybrundage ( 3 ) : Balla24, Koshi, suki, Hopeless1der, Oatsmaster, Alakaslam JonnyLaw ( 3 ) : suki, Koshi, Aquanim, Balla24 Alakaslam ( 0 ) : jaybrundage Sidesprang ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster suki ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster, Balla24, Jaybrundage Koshi ( 1 ) : Jaybrundage, JonnyLaw Balla24 ( 0 ) : Jaybrundage, suki Aquanim ( 0 ) : Balla24There's always a slight chance it was a bus given how JonnyLaw was playing and how much suspicion he was getting, but I'd say that he looks town enough for now. So I checked, the following people were voicing suspicion on JonnyLaw before Aquanim posted his case: suki jaybrundage Balla24 Koshi myself So considering the timing, it could very well have been a bus but that's pretty inconclusive. Aquanim, were you voting Coagulation on D2 because you thought he was scum or because he was a liability? Both. I thought he was reasonably likely to be scum, and if he was town would likely either be mislynched later or contribute to a mislynch at LYLO - hence, a liability. I'm sure my reasons are in my filter, if you look. This is the conclusion you came to after reading up on both players: Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 06:28 Aquanim wrote:On February 12 2014 04:16 Coagulation wrote: Aquanim is defending sidesprang hard and making up illogical shit in the process. sidesprang Aquanim scum team calling it now. You're hilarious Coag. Also, you disgust me... but the fact you're posting anything game-relevant at all is apparently a town-tell. (Much happier with the scum-meta from the PYP LoL game than the others I found.) Imma go take a quick look at Sidesprang again. Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 06:45 Aquanim wrote: Ha! Do your worst Coag.
Reading his filter again, it's still marginal but I think there was a significant amount more thought going into his posts in the newbie, rather than just summarising the thread (which more accurately describes here).
Can't say I'm hugely confident in this one but
##Unvote ##Vote: Sidesprang Give me some kind of idea how strongly you thought each of them was scummy/towny at this point. Also, why did you feel a need to change your vote if you were unconfident about the lynch, given that it did not affect the outcome? Pretty sure that's in my filter too. I thought Sidesprang was significantly more likely to flip scum at that point but it still wouldn't have utterly shocked me for Coag to do so.
As for why I changed my vote... pretty sure I've covered this too. Suffice it to say that I prefer my vote to be on the person I want to lynch at the end of the day, regardless of whether it's necessary. Keeps things simple.
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Coag's reason for being townier on hopeless is:
Honestly he has said some of the scummiest shit in this game but hes really putting a ton of visible effort and discomfort in figuring out who the last scum is.
to which I wonder if he's even reading the game. as far as I can tell since the Suki lynch Hopeless' total visible effort into figuring out the last scum is "well I guess it has to be lone by PoE, peace out".
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On February 17 2014 23:09 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +I can kind of see how he might do this as a townie, if he was absolutely and positively convinced that Lone was scum and was willing to make any deal to see him lynched. Problem is, he doesn't have a case on Lone, just some PoE... I don't see how he can be sure enough about LM-scum to make this make sense from a townie point of view.
Oats, if you can see how this makes any kind of sense from a townie Hopeless let me know. In the meantime:
Uh you just said it. He is convinced. My point was "if Hopeless is convinced, why can't he tell me why LoneMeow is scum based on his play?"
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On February 18 2014 06:13 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 06:05 Aquanim wrote:On February 17 2014 23:09 Oatsmaster wrote:I can kind of see how he might do this as a townie, if he was absolutely and positively convinced that Lone was scum and was willing to make any deal to see him lynched. Problem is, he doesn't have a case on Lone, just some PoE... I don't see how he can be sure enough about LM-scum to make this make sense from a townie point of view.
Oats, if you can see how this makes any kind of sense from a townie Hopeless let me know. In the meantime:
Uh you just said it. He is convinced. My point was "if Hopeless is convinced, why can't he tell me why LoneMeow is scum based on his play?" which is a fair point, but the fact that I'm certain implies I cant be assed to actually assess the rest of the players since the game is effectively solved. (to me) Problem with that strategy is I can't distinguish between "can't be assed to assess the thread" and "scum" at this point.
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On February 18 2014 06:14 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 06:00 Aquanim wrote:On February 17 2014 22:57 LoneMeow wrote:On February 17 2014 22:42 Aquanim wrote:On February 17 2014 22:21 LoneMeow wrote:On February 14 2014 17:22 LoneMeow wrote:Actually, now that I went back and checked the timing of things Aquanim looks very town for the D1 push on JonnyLaw, far more than I originally thought. When he made this big push to get JonnyLaw lynched the votes, if I'm not mistaken, were like this: Jaybrundage ( 3 ) : Balla24, Koshi, suki, Hopeless1der, Oatsmaster, Alakaslam JonnyLaw ( 3 ) : suki, Koshi, Aquanim, Balla24 Alakaslam ( 0 ) : jaybrundage Sidesprang ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster suki ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster, Balla24, Jaybrundage Koshi ( 1 ) : Jaybrundage, JonnyLaw Balla24 ( 0 ) : Jaybrundage, suki Aquanim ( 0 ) : Balla24There's always a slight chance it was a bus given how JonnyLaw was playing and how much suspicion he was getting, but I'd say that he looks town enough for now. So I checked, the following people were voicing suspicion on JonnyLaw before Aquanim posted his case: suki jaybrundage Balla24 Koshi myself So considering the timing, it could very well have been a bus but that's pretty inconclusive. Aquanim, were you voting Coagulation on D2 because you thought he was scum or because he was a liability? Both. I thought he was reasonably likely to be scum, and if he was town would likely either be mislynched later or contribute to a mislynch at LYLO - hence, a liability. I'm sure my reasons are in my filter, if you look. This is the conclusion you came to after reading up on both players: On February 12 2014 06:28 Aquanim wrote:On February 12 2014 04:16 Coagulation wrote: Aquanim is defending sidesprang hard and making up illogical shit in the process. sidesprang Aquanim scum team calling it now. You're hilarious Coag. Also, you disgust me... but the fact you're posting anything game-relevant at all is apparently a town-tell. (Much happier with the scum-meta from the PYP LoL game than the others I found.) Imma go take a quick look at Sidesprang again. On February 12 2014 06:45 Aquanim wrote: Ha! Do your worst Coag.
Reading his filter again, it's still marginal but I think there was a significant amount more thought going into his posts in the newbie, rather than just summarising the thread (which more accurately describes here).
Can't say I'm hugely confident in this one but
##Unvote ##Vote: Sidesprang Give me some kind of idea how strongly you thought each of them was scummy/towny at this point. Also, why did you feel a need to change your vote if you were unconfident about the lynch, given that it did not affect the outcome? Pretty sure that's in my filter too. I thought Sidesprang was significantly more likely to flip scum at that point but it still wouldn't have utterly shocked me for Coag to do so. As for why I changed my vote... pretty sure I've covered this too. Suffice it to say that I prefer my vote to be on the person I want to lynch at the end of the day, regardless of whether it's necessary. Keeps things simple. Right, the story checks out, nothing here that would make you look scummy. Do you think there's a chance both wagons may have been on scum? ...Also in my filter. I think Oats asked me at some point.
I think it's conceivable - in that case there wouldn't have been any scum with thread presence trying to drive a lynch on a townie, so there's no exceptionally good reason why a two-scum-wagon day should be impossible.
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What is the purpose behind these questions LoneMeow?
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On February 18 2014 06:19 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 06:17 Aquanim wrote:On February 18 2014 06:14 LoneMeow wrote:On February 18 2014 06:00 Aquanim wrote:On February 17 2014 22:57 LoneMeow wrote:On February 17 2014 22:42 Aquanim wrote:On February 17 2014 22:21 LoneMeow wrote:On February 14 2014 17:22 LoneMeow wrote:Actually, now that I went back and checked the timing of things Aquanim looks very town for the D1 push on JonnyLaw, far more than I originally thought. When he made this big push to get JonnyLaw lynched the votes, if I'm not mistaken, were like this: Jaybrundage ( 3 ) : Balla24, Koshi, suki, Hopeless1der, Oatsmaster, Alakaslam JonnyLaw ( 3 ) : suki, Koshi, Aquanim, Balla24 Alakaslam ( 0 ) : jaybrundage Sidesprang ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster suki ( 1 ) : Oatsmaster, Balla24, Jaybrundage Koshi ( 1 ) : Jaybrundage, JonnyLaw Balla24 ( 0 ) : Jaybrundage, suki Aquanim ( 0 ) : Balla24There's always a slight chance it was a bus given how JonnyLaw was playing and how much suspicion he was getting, but I'd say that he looks town enough for now. So I checked, the following people were voicing suspicion on JonnyLaw before Aquanim posted his case: suki jaybrundage Balla24 Koshi myself So considering the timing, it could very well have been a bus but that's pretty inconclusive. Aquanim, were you voting Coagulation on D2 because you thought he was scum or because he was a liability? Both. I thought he was reasonably likely to be scum, and if he was town would likely either be mislynched later or contribute to a mislynch at LYLO - hence, a liability. I'm sure my reasons are in my filter, if you look. This is the conclusion you came to after reading up on both players: On February 12 2014 06:28 Aquanim wrote:On February 12 2014 04:16 Coagulation wrote: Aquanim is defending sidesprang hard and making up illogical shit in the process. sidesprang Aquanim scum team calling it now. You're hilarious Coag. Also, you disgust me... but the fact you're posting anything game-relevant at all is apparently a town-tell. (Much happier with the scum-meta from the PYP LoL game than the others I found.) Imma go take a quick look at Sidesprang again. On February 12 2014 06:45 Aquanim wrote: Ha! Do your worst Coag.
Reading his filter again, it's still marginal but I think there was a significant amount more thought going into his posts in the newbie, rather than just summarising the thread (which more accurately describes here).
Can't say I'm hugely confident in this one but
##Unvote ##Vote: Sidesprang Give me some kind of idea how strongly you thought each of them was scummy/towny at this point. Also, why did you feel a need to change your vote if you were unconfident about the lynch, given that it did not affect the outcome? Pretty sure that's in my filter too. I thought Sidesprang was significantly more likely to flip scum at that point but it still wouldn't have utterly shocked me for Coag to do so. As for why I changed my vote... pretty sure I've covered this too. Suffice it to say that I prefer my vote to be on the person I want to lynch at the end of the day, regardless of whether it's necessary. Keeps things simple. Right, the story checks out, nothing here that would make you look scummy. Do you think there's a chance both wagons may have been on scum? ...Also in my filter. I think Oats asked me at some point. I think it's conceivable - in that case there wouldn't have been any scum with thread presence trying to drive a lynch on a townie, so there's no exceptionally good reason why a two-scum-wagon day should be impossible. Sorry, the question was a bit badly formed: What I meant to ask was whether there's anything about the play of Coagulation/sidesprang that would make it more/less likely? I don't remember any association between their two slots and I'm too busy to go back and check right now.
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On February 18 2014 06:26 Hopeless1der wrote: I'm not the type of player to cram my reads down your throat. I try to gently show you evidence and let you draw conclusions. Giving you the votecounts is a base point to then consider what the wagons show, and then weighing that against my scumreads.
On February 10 2014 01:16 Hopeless1der wrote:WARNING ** WARNING WALL OF CONFIRMATION BIAS INCOMING Subject: suki is scum
... ... ... Well, that obviously isn't *always* true...
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...I just can't see any reason to lynch Lone over Hopeless here :/
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On February 18 2014 06:44 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 06:26 Hopeless1der wrote:WALL OF CONFIRMATION BIAS INCOMING thats me explicitly warning you my reads are biased yeah, and IIRC you do that a lot as scum.
and that's not my point, the point was that you were in fact willing to "cram my reads down your throat".
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gah... Hopeless you have put forward a fair few reasons/excuses why you haven't really contributed any analysis to the thread for the last day or whatever. Some of them are plausible. But I just have no way to distinguish it from you being scum, and I have more reason to think everyone else is town than you.
If you're town... I apologise. But I can't bring myself to lynch anyone else today.
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...I kind of want to swap to coag too now
damn you, oats
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...no fuck it I want to think about this another day or two
somebody switch to coag plz
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I can't do it first because if I switch and nobody follows Lone gets lynched and I don't want that
one of you switch to coag
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##Unvote ##Vote: Coagulation
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On February 18 2014 07:03 Promethelax wrote: Well played town. Besides the suki lynch, that was petty terrible. that was the problem though
because I wasn't considering Coag there were only terrible lynches to choose from.
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bleck... my biggest mistake among others re. the Suki lynch was misjudging how she would respond to pressure as a townie, I think.
Holyflare and I living on opposite sides of the world made our QT a little sparse. Also towards the end I didn't ask questions in there so much as just rant about the game. Even so, what he did say was quite helpful
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What was Coag's role? probably godfather
I gotta say this is the least enthused I have ever been to have been checked as innocent by a cop
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On February 18 2014 07:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Scum was just 3 goons. I rolled between one blue and no scum roles, 2 blue and one scum role, and 3 blues and 2 scum roles, weighted towards the middle option and against the last option. Huh, I looked at the first game and couldn't find a second blue role, just two one doctor - so I figured one town role against a corresponding scum role was expected. Guess I should have asked. Who was the other power role in the first game, anyway?
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On February 18 2014 07:59 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 07:44 Aquanim wrote:On February 18 2014 07:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Scum was just 3 goons. I rolled between one blue and no scum roles, 2 blue and one scum role, and 3 blues and 2 scum roles, weighted towards the middle option and against the last option. Huh, I looked at the first game and couldn't find a second blue role, just two one doctor - so I figured one town role against a corresponding scum role was expected. Guess I should have asked. Who was the other power role in the first game, anyway? First game had a doc and a vigilante against a roleblocker. If you asked about role balance in the setup I wouldn't have given you a concrete answer. It's semi-open. Oh sure I wouldn't have expected one. I meant "ask whether there was another role in the first game, since I don't think everyone was flipped in the end".
One concept I found useful this game was my own "town-credit"; that is, if you can accurately estimate how much you have, you know how much you can spend. If you spend all of your town-credit and go into debt then maybe you get lynched. For instance, I probably wouldn't have made that random, unsubstantiated switch into voting Oats Day 2 if I thought I was under significant suspicion. There are things you can get away with if you're a strong town-read of the thread, which should probably not be attempted if you aren't, in my experience.
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On February 18 2014 13:25 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2014 13:23 jaybrundage wrote:On February 18 2014 13:14 suki wrote:I know right? I was so happy. And then Jay had to ruin it by actually being town hehehe. You and jonny. This guy wasn't scum. BUT HE SHOULD OF BEEN QQ LMAO. In all fairness I think Jonny's case on you was completely ridiculous last game. Like I can understand feeling weird about how townie you were playing, but pushing it as your day1 lynch seems unreasonable. Actually this game I felt really off about Aquanim the entire time but it ended up never really materializing. lol that sounds familiar, every game I've played with Thrawn he's said something along those lines... and he seriously tried to lynch me on occasion, too
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