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On February 08 2014 12:24 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 02:24 jaybrundage wrote:On February 08 2014 02:19 Hopeless1der wrote:
okay jay, so most of yesterday was 'heat of the moment'. have you re-read or reconsidered your scumreads? Yea Balla is leaning town for me atm. I still think Koshi could be scum but everyone shitting on my push on him, means that the push wasn't not as good as I thought it was. So I won't be pushing him now and will try to get reads on other people. Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 11:06 jaybrundage wrote:On February 08 2014 10:22 Balla24 wrote:On February 08 2014 09:57 Aquanim wrote:
@JayB: So far as I can see, Jonny hasn't pushed any reads so far and I don't think he's trying to learn more about other players through his posts. Why do you think Alakaslam is a better lynch than him? To add to this: why does Koshi not "being on the menu" mean you don't want to lynch him? For that first post, you should also include the context of it here: A few reasons. If people who i think are town don't think Koshi is scum then I can be mistaken and instead of tunneling him I should be trying to create other reads. If there is no support for a lynch then going after it relentlessly and tunneling on him is just detrimental to town. Consider this a request for you to "continue tunneling' Koshi. LoneMeow and Jonny are unsure of Koshi's alignment, and LoneMeow is townie to you. What things about Koshi's play recently make you think he's scummy?
I ask you nicely to provide your reads on Koshi and you refuse.
I genuinely feel bad for the whole 'Go on try to get my lynched' post though. That was out of line. I apologize. Still, all I'm asking for is analysis and contribution and you continue to refuse.
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EBWOP:
Above the quote it should have said, "Regarding your first quote JayB, you should consider the context of why I asked you to 'tunnel Koshi'"
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@Alakaslam I'd like to see your opinion of Jonny please.
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I just can't get over my read on Jay. He's scum to me through and through. Even before he started blowing up at me his attitude just didn't make sense and didn't fit with his town play. People give him the pass for 'making changes' but they never explain why these changes make it more likely that he's town.
If it's between Jonny and Jay, then I'll push Jay.
Jonny's case on Koshi based on the early gameis so bad. His continued use of the previous game to provide examples is stupid. However if I give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that he was working and he's short on time, then it's easier to accept that his cases are bad. At least he's pushing cases, giving reads freely, being upfront.
Contrast it with Jay's behavior. Yes, I am tunneling Jay. I'm just so damn sure of him. I don't buy his blue 'claim' at all (true-blue townie? what kind of stupid claim is that). How is it that Jay's been here so much more than Jonny and yet he's the one that has less scum-hunting activity?
Remember how we were like when Koshi came into this game and claimed he was going to be super active, that if he didn't hold up to it then he's an easy lynch? Jay came into this game with an over the top IM GONNA HUNT SCUM attitude and he HAS NOT DELIVERED. Fuck.
I am willing to give Jonny a second chance. His cases that he made are bad but that's no reason to fault him, at least he made cases, posted opinions and pushed the person he thought was scummy.
What is Jay doing? Jonny came in and had no problems making a shitty case on Koshi just now yet I ask Jay why he thinks Koshi is scum and he dodges hard and later says 'Koshi is null'. Jay can't even stick to his own guns.
Look at the votes in the thread. EVERYONE is on Jonny. Everyone. But there's so much hesitation with Jay.
Face it, Jonny's the easy (mis)lynch target and not because he's been playing scummy, but because he has a few tweaks to his game that are suspicious (such as not flaming people for excuses, not commenting on Jay), because he's been away and because his cases are horrible.
BUT he is OBJECTIVELY (yes Oats, Objectively) doing more pro-town things than Jay.
Arrghghghghgh.
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Does it bother you that EVERYONE is suspicious of Jonny Koshi?
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I agree. There is nothing to defend Jonny for and if I couldn't vote Jay then yes Jonny would be an easy lynch.
but I'm willing to give Jonny a second chance whereas I don't feel the same way about Jay.
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I would like to hear Coag's opinion on Jay, Jonny, Sidesprang, LoneMeow in that order. as well as anyone else he cares to share.
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On February 09 2014 03:42 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2014 03:35 Koshi wrote:
The big post on how we should lynch the blueclaim from suki.
Did we like it? The thing about the blue claim is that... it's a terrible claim, unfortunately. But you're right, suki not taking into account that it might be true and thus the implications of lynching jayb is bad. Honestly, when I first read the "claim", my thought that it was an attempt to breadcrumb being blue so that he could use it later on when he actually claims something. There was no reason to claim blue at all for him at that point, and if you're breadcrumbing then you should be bread-crumbing your role IMO. Plus breadcrumbs should be impossible to find without explanation.
First off, I don't see it as a claim. What are you going to do if Jay comes back later and says 'It wasn't a claim, it was a figure of speech and I didn't realize that it was a soft blue claim when I posted it'?
Also like I said, I'm certain that Jay is scum, and I'm willing to give Jonny a second chance. Blue claims aren't a free get out of jail ticket. Everyone just brushes over all my posts about Jay's contradictions with a magic 'oh he kinda blue claimed' sweeper when the evidence is right there laid out in front of you.
Just like you guys don't see Jay as completely scummy as I do, I don't see Jonny as completely scummy the way you do. What if Jonny claimed blue right now? Would you be like omg we can't lynch him today? If your answer is you'd still lynch him then you see where I'm coming from.
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what if Jonny was like 'I keep screaming koshi is scum until I'm blue in the face but you guys still won't vote him'
Would that be a blue claim? Like.. come on. If he really was blue and he wanted to breadcrumb he would have picked a better way than say 'I'm a true-blue townie'. That's just weak.
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Koshi since I respect your play thus far, I will simply agree to disagree with you. Your stance and Jonny is the same as my stance on Jay.
I'm crossing my fingers that Jonny will flip red and we can all hug each other and throw a party.
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EBWOP: Your stance on* Jonny is the same as my stance on Jay.
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It's all WIFOM how a scum would claim, isn't it?
However we do know that last game Jay kept trying to push his lynches and only claimed at the very last second to make sure he wasn't mislynched. This game he kind of weak claims and he's doing nothing to push his scum targets.
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Can you explain your thought pattern on how Jay is town? Can you explain my points against him away with how it could come from a townie mindset?
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I sincerely want to know because so far the only defense of Jay has been vague 'he feels townie to me' remarks and nothing addresses my concerns on him.
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Aqua was like 'Jay has been contributing' and when I called him out and asked him what Jay's contributions were Aqua just kinda shrugged it off.
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It's so frustrating. Even Balla said my meta case was good but won't address my points specifically.
I get focusing on your most scummy target... So whatever. I guess I'll just wait until after the lynch and see what everyone says then when Jonny is out of the picture.
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Lord Koshi, thy words art too kind. Let me adjourn for a spell, I fear all this talk of traitors will be the end of me.
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1. Because you don't consider the blue claim hard. I like that you have a followup and have actually thought about it though, but that should have been important in this post.
2. Because you're calling Jonny more townie for stuff that you called Jay scummy for earlier.
3. I don't agree at all with the fact that Jonny is "pushing cases" and "sharing reads freely". Why do you think jonny is doing this better than jay? I think they are both doing a pretty terrible job of both.
4. Jonny and jay have had multiple chances to redeem themselves. Jonny has failed MUCH harder than jay has. MUCH MUCH MUCH harder.
1. because I didn't consider it a blue claim.
2. Jonny at least has his absence as a reason for bad cases. Yes absence is a horrible reason and a scum point to boot, but Jay has been here this entire time and has contributed less with just as bad cases.
3. Both of them are doing a terrible job. It is my opinion that Jonny has spent more time pushing cases and sharing reads than Jay has. Jay has not been pushing cases on his scum picks and does not share reads freely.
4. Both of them have failed hard. You were pressuring Jonny and so maybe that's why he failed much harder to you. I was pressuring Jay and it is my opinion that Jay has failed much much harder.
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Remember how we were like when Koshi came into this game and claimed he was going to be super active, that if he didn't hold up to it then he's an easy lynch? Jay came into this game with an over the top IM GONNA HUNT SCUM attitude and he HAS NOT DELIVERED.
Explain to me the townie mindset for Jay's non-deliverance of his super scum hunting attitude at the beginning of the game.
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Won't it be funny if both Jonny AND Jay end up flipping scum? Then we'll look back at this moment when we're ripping our hair out arguing who is scummier and laugh. hohoho how silly were we.
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EPT
