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Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Ange777
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Germany1164 Posts
February 16 2014 20:50 GMT
#981
VOTE COUNT:

thrawn2112 (0): IAmRobik
VIVAX420 (0): thrawn2112, Grackaroni, ShiaoPi
IAmRobik (0): roundabound
DoNotPanic! (0): roundabound
Grackaroni (2): IAmRobik, JarJarDrinks
sidesprang (2): roundabound, VIVAX420, Grackaroni, roundabound
ShiaoPi (2): bumatlarge, VIVAX420, Mattchew, roundabound, sidesprang, thrawn2112, VIVAX420, Mattchew
QuantumPope (2): ShiaoPi, sidesprang
roundabound (2): roundabound,sidesprang, Mattchew, bumatlarge, gumshoe
bumatlarge (0): roundabound
Mordanis (1): roundabound, thrawn2112

With 13 players alive it takes 7 votes to lynch. Only votes in the Voting Thread will be counted!

♥ Sen - 台灣之光 ♥
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
February 16 2014 23:33 GMT
#982
Ok

We are lynching ShiaoPi.

While I think Round is scum, because there is no town logic whatsoever behind his posting, I could be wrong and this might be how that entity thinks they can scumhunt. I have no intention of dropping them from my scumlist anytime soon because it in no way helps us.Though, what mocsta did was such a vomit-inducing attempt to be clever that he clearly did it idly without thinking it through. I guess that is slightly feasible to justify doing from a town perspective.

YOU KNOW WHAT THAT LAST STATEMENT DOESN'T MEAN? THAT I THINK I'M GIVING HIM A TOWN READ. Yes thrawn, I used "is" and "town" in the same sentence, but thats looking at angles, not a read. GET THAT STRAIGHT YOU ILLITERATE BUFFOON. I'm stating there is a chance, so he is not the auto lynch. I was wrong in pushing that sentiment.

ShiaoPi is the lynch that would do us the most good. My mouth started watering when I read the bolded part. Sure you can grind it out to WIFOM, but I love how tangible Roundabound made it with this post.

On February 16 2014 16:08 Mocsta wrote:
nah, my team is vivax420 and irobik

giving up cos bum is stopping the mislynch on shiaopi

need more Mattchew votes, gogogo


I'm not going to pretend to know what this whole post implies, but it's purposefully confusing and it's bad, but not completely uninformative. We were clearly on the road to lynching ShiaoPi. It wasn't until Moc's post that we got off of him. The timing is interesting.

Moc accomplished nothing with his claim/un-claim of scum. Everyone knew it wouldn't. I don't think I need to detail that there is very little difference in town voting proclaimed scum and mafia voting proclaimed scum. His arguments against me voting him immediately fall short because my accusations towards him are perfectly acceptable as both alignments. You play against your win-con, I am going to lynch you. It's generically going to be the response that 90% of players give. Trolling indicates that you are trying to trip up someone's thought process, and if you do that intentionally in public, you are encouraging chaotic behavior which is awfully antie-town. There was no fruitful read that came of Moc's claim. Not Gumshoe, not Mattchew, not me. No one.

But maybe ShiaoPi.




+ Show Spoiler +
On February 16 2014 23:11 roundabound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 16 2014 22:44 VIVAX420 wrote:
mordanis - TOWN
He is a super noob. Yes his cases are bad but newb scum would not be able to make those cases.

if the cases are bad, why is it beyond a newb scum?

You lump and categorise players too hard.

Mordanis has a small filter: read 1 page.

Lets do a post by post: NOT SPOILERED for your Benefit



Show nested quote +
On February 13 2014 03:31 Mordanis wrote:
It's been quite a while since I've played, so I was going to say that I seem to remember that the correct action at the beginning of a game is to yell at people and vote for people just for the hell of it, but I see all of this has already been accomplished. Clearly this much shenanigans could only be scum.

brb gonna go write a wall of text case against everyone.
Red: Noob Card with insult to town thrown in for good measure -> (/sarcasm) cos thats how town likes to correct actions they do not like

Blue: First promise of "mega contribution"
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2014 06:28 Mordanis wrote:
I'm a little confused... Robik, are you really voting for thrawn for posting "hmmm", or is there more behind it?

On a side note, I think its looking a bit sketchy that it seems like we already have a vote on thrawn (for "hmm") and vivax building a meta case on him for lurking a few hours into the game, it feels like teamwork or opportunistic scum play...
No conclusion fluff
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2014 06:36 Mordanis wrote:
I'm not sure I follow that argument. Is scum inherently lazy in your view, or does actual evidence always support town, rather than scum? I think its certainly possible that scum could find a previous game that could be used to lynch a townie.
Theory ramble. Null
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2014 08:30 Mordanis wrote:
Rob, you're clearly reading my filter without context. I wrote that after like 5 posts, and it was a joke intended for the couple (I think) of people I've played with before. You see, I had a reputation (especially from my newbie games) of only posting novella-length cases, and basically letting those do all of my talking.
Second promise of "mega contribution"
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2014 09:06 Mordanis wrote:
I've got to go to class for a while, but before I go, I just wanted to elaborate on my previous feelings.

I think the abortive case had some momentum for a second against thrawn is very suspicious. The way Rob voted for Thrawn for lurking, and then !Hey Presto!, vivax comes in showing that thrawn is apparently well known for being lurky as scum, well it all seems very wrong. vivax backed down almost immediately, and Rob stayed the course until thrawn started talking. Now vivax left without any more reads after that. Rob did the *exact* opposite, posting a lot and picking up a read (based on thrawn's thoughts and a joke). Essentially what I'm trying to say here is that the behavior between the two of these definitely warrants more investigation.

On vivax
I really don't like the way that vivax posted fluff, gave someone else evidence to start a case, and then left it all alone for everyone else to take care of, and then disappeared right afterwards. And then there's this post:
On February 13 2014 06:17 VIVAX420 wrote:
On February 13 2014 06:16 IAmRobik wrote:
People try to shush me when I play live games cause I talk to much...but in these games I'm free to provide all the content that I want!


do you talk a lot as scum too?

vivax goes from one hell of a scum read on thrawn (without really pushing anything) to one hell of a town read on Robik (without telling us why). In short, vivax seems incredibly confident about being right but hasn't really done anything useful aside from helping another player make a case. That seems like as much of a scum mindset as you can get.
Red: He is a self-proclaimed "novella-case" maker, yet is only producing glimmers of thoughts with no concrete substance.
Bold Red: If this is a proven scum mindset, where is the vote?
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2014 09:16 Mordanis wrote:
so rayn, If you're not voting for anyone right now, what are your best scum reads?
Ironic fluff; considering he has scum reads with no vote...
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2014 23:53 Mordanis wrote:
On February 13 2014 22:24 VIVAX420 wrote:
i misread actually. I thought he was saying i had a hell of a scumread on rob because i asked him a question. actually he said hell of a townread.

Quite reasonably because "do you talk this much as scum" implies that you meant Rob was a town read. Robik didn't say "I talk a lot as town", but rather "I like forum mafia because I can make a ton of content".
Offers insight on post phrasing for something insignificant; yet, can't reach vote-worthy conclusions on his own reads.
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2014 23:58 Mordanis wrote:
On February 13 2014 18:53 thrawn2112 wrote:
Mordanis did you reach any conclusions about robik? I can't tell if you're trying to sell both robik/vivax as a scum team or if you thought robik could be mafia purely based off of his own play.


I'm not going after Robik at present. I felt something was off between the two that warranted further investigation, which has led me to believe that vivax is the scummier of the two. Right now, I'm not exactly feeling incredibly rushed to get a lynch in the next few hours, so I'm curious to see the way kush plays vivax.
Red: Apparently now isn't chasing Robik; but doesnt clear him as town either.....
Blue: Not rushed to get a lynch, because waiting for others to do things- -- yet wont produce the mega contributions promised either.
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2014 14:10 Mordanis wrote:
Hey, I just got back. If anyone has any questions for me, I'll be reading through for the next while.
Another excuse to not fulfil his own promise
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2014 15:28 Mordanis wrote:
The more I look at the early game, the worse vivax looks. vivax's meta case on thrawn came 3 hours in. A few minutes later, Robik asks vivax for a game where thrawn is town, and vivax doesn't post for the next ~half hour. then 3 minutes after thrawn explains his little move, there's vivax. To me, this comes across as vivax cherrypicking stuff to try to get a lynch early.[/erd]

Hopefully more coming soon!
Red:The case on Vivax is time-stamp conjecture summarised by cherrypicking "STUFF" that isnt even fleshed out for us simpletons
Blue: 3rd promise of more contribution
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2014 16:43 Mordanis wrote:
On February 14 2014 02:57 VIVAX420 wrote:
Well what I don't like about Mordanis is the fact that he doesn't seem the least bit suspicious about thrawn. When a guy is lurking and posting nonsense you would actually want him to post more and better stuff so you can get a read on him.

Hence I can't explain from a town pov why he doesn't want thrawn to be pressured, and thrawn himself already pointed out:

Mordanis could be scum, his suspicions of vivax/robik look like they stem from him having knowledge of my alignment. He's suspicious of people because of their suspicions of a townie which is classic fake-scumhunting.

I thought this was apparent but I guess I have to explain this. The case on thrawn was the first case with anything to it. There were two people behind it, and it seemed like a mostly meta case (as I recall, Robik was much happier with his read after seeing the game vivax linked). The thing is, I don't know thrawn, or really anyone else well enough to make a meta case or even believe one without outside confirmation.So, I did what I can do, and thought about the posts and the order and such, to try to find scum through analysis. I thought (and still do) that, if there is a strong meta case against someone who has played many games on TL, there will be several games that will show this pattern, and multiple people will be able to verify that the meta case is reasonable.
An acceptable point of view. And a solid reason to be unsure of Mordanis alignment. Henceforth I treat this post as null until more flips are given.
Why?
Scum know who town is. Say Thrawn is town; its an entirely plausible contribution for scum to make (Against a weak/incorrect Vivax case). This is independant of Vivax alignment.
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2014 16:54 Mordanis wrote:
On February 14 2014 13:34 VIVAX420 wrote:
thrawn timeline:
lurk scumstyle
start tryharding because vivax caught him
continue to lurk when the pressure goes down

As per my last post, could someone who knows thrawn let me know if this isa reasonable case or not?
Why does this still matter. The game has progressed further; Vivax and his hydra buddy have made more content than pertains to just thrawn; yet mordanis is fixated here talking abotu absolutely nothing else YET NOT PROBING THEM TO ELUCIDATE MORE INFORMATION.


Vivax, mordanis is scum
QED
Please lynch, me falling asleep here.


After throwing red reads around on everyone involved, he goes after a single person that was not involved in the entire incident. The case on Mordanis is weak. It's day one and he is being quoted on promising content and lack of a vote. That's it. It isn't good, but it is far from lynch material when there are worse individuals here.

Now sidesprang, who I admit is not on my townlist is being pushed. The fact that Round strictly used SS's posts about his claim to procure a reason to vote is mindboggling. It's clearly a null-tell when someone votes for someone who claims scum and asks to be lynched.

On February 17 2014 00:49 roundabound wrote:
sideprang:
Show nested quote +
On February 16 2014 17:26 sidesprang wrote:
Why would we not vote him?

Show nested quote +
On February 16 2014 17:27 sidesprang wrote:
[red]Then he deserves to get policy lynched, and hopefully a ban aswell.

Hops on to the claim immediately for policy reasons. But see especially the red part.
Show nested quote +
On February 16 2014 23:45 sidesprang wrote:
I'm up for Mord / QP, pretty much just want to get this lynch over with. This game is so boring.

When the lynch does not gain momentum see what he does.
He drops out his scumread/policy (which is weak in the first place) and suddenly wants to lynch someone else.
Now this makes no sense, if he feels like we are mafia so strong, why not push the lynch then? He's trying to find a lynch, not mafia.

##unvote
##Vote: sidesprang


What a miserable excuse of a vote. I can't believe this hydra has any intention of helping town for the remainder of the game. I'd be more then happy to eat my words and wear the dunce cap if Round can provide a better case and organize town instead of calling it boring because of the nature of IML.




We are lynching the person who was stuffed under the Moc claim and forgotten about vote-wise. His name is still getting mentioned but there is no weight put into it at all.

ShiaoPi flipping scum will confirm alot for me. And I don't think you people will lynch the hydra as long as you are afraid of getting called names by it.

##unvote
##Vote ShiaoPi
Together but separate, like oatmeal
roundabound
Profile Joined February 2014
Niue881 Posts
February 16 2014 23:36 GMT
#983
Read again bumatlarge. I can't believe you are misrepresenting my words this hard.

~rayn
Mocsta & IAmRobik hydra
roundabound
Profile Joined February 2014
Niue881 Posts
February 16 2014 23:37 GMT
#984
Bum. You sound awfully familiar yo day 1 in restart.

But don't worry. You still bore me.

~moc
Mocsta & IAmRobik hydra
roundabound
Profile Joined February 2014
Niue881 Posts
February 16 2014 23:39 GMT
#985
Rayn. Let's hydra here.

Bums post reads like classic scum in very guide.

Start off with a scum read, then produce reasons to ignore it. Then push othersothers whom ya vote is not in.

Yes that's right. Bum advocates shiaopi but no reason yet has a vote on us.how town like do u think?
Lol

~moc
Mocsta & IAmRobik hydra
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
February 16 2014 23:51 GMT
#986
I would love to lynch you, but apparently you can scum claim and still not die. I'm immune to your tactics boys.

Why don't you go ahead and put your vote on ShiaoPi. You aren't allowed to put it anywhere else.
Together but separate, like oatmeal
roundabound
Profile Joined February 2014
Niue881 Posts
February 16 2014 23:55 GMT
#987
On February 17 2014 08:51 bumatlarge wrote:
I would love to lynch you, but apparently you can scum claim and still not die. I'm immune to your tactics boys.

Why don't you go ahead and put your vote on ShiaoPi. You aren't allowed to put it anywhere else.

U were there in restart. I scum claimed as town.heck I'm the guy that fake claimed doc to lynch the doc.

Your sole metric is an action you convey as personally not comprehending.
Bad play is not equivocal with scum play.

I would have thought a town player that realises that rounds bound is scum, would then filter dive and prove motive behind the rest of play
You can't do that and won't do that.

I.e. your primary push in the game is pure policy.. Yet here you are trying to tell us how to play the game.

What I love is how you comment in the validity of cases. E.g. mordanis
You talk with a level of conviction beyond assuming.

Disagree?
Mocsta & IAmRobik hydra
roundabound
Profile Joined February 2014
Niue881 Posts
February 16 2014 23:55 GMT
#988
~moc
Mocsta & IAmRobik hydra
roundabound
Profile Joined February 2014
Niue881 Posts
February 17 2014 00:07 GMT
#989
Didn't mean to scare you away bum

Wow. If I can do that with phone posting, I'm worried what will happen when I get to a comp

For the record.
Rayn and I are in agreement with the best vote for todaytoday and it is where it is already.
Mocsta & IAmRobik hydra
roundabound
Profile Joined February 2014
Niue881 Posts
February 17 2014 00:15 GMT
#990
Anyways my new strat

I'm doing a "QP"

I'm not going to post for 72 hrs and rely on bum to ignore good cases like mordanis or sidesprang. Plus everyone will forget I exist and thus not vote me

~moc
Mocsta & IAmRobik hydra
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 17 2014 00:45 GMT
#991
Can you please take a look at the difference in play between this game and this one
(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=436388&user=sidesprang&view=all).

I think the difference is as clear as day, in that game his content, insight and opinion is more prevalent for the average post. In this game, he posts jokey stuff, keeps his posting to a minimum and doesn't go out to calling people scum, or pushing targets.

Still would like the opinion of other folks.

~V
Kush and Vivax
roundabound
Profile Joined February 2014
Niue881 Posts
February 17 2014 00:48 GMT
#992
Agreed . it is night and day in titanic.
Not just the tone, but that he offers his thoughts willingly

When tied in with his lack of care for lynch as rayn has noted and there is zero reason to not lynch sidesprang

~moc
Mocsta & IAmRobik hydra
roundabound
Profile Joined February 2014
Niue881 Posts
February 17 2014 00:50 GMT
#993
The worse thing is. In titanic he was the cop which is typically thought to be played more reserved in general compared to town play.

Essentially his cop game >>>>> this game

Deffo not a good sign for being town

~moc
Mocsta & IAmRobik hydra
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 17 2014 02:21 GMT
#994
Moc, what can you say to his mafia play then? Do you think it's similar to this game?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442787&user=sidesprang&view=all

~V
Kush and Vivax
roundabound
Profile Joined February 2014
Niue881 Posts
February 17 2014 02:55 GMT
#995
On February 17 2014 11:21 VIVAX420 wrote:
Moc, what can you say to his mafia play then? Do you think it's similar to this game?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442787&user=sidesprang&view=all

~V

Off a glance that game is different to this one and titantic.

In shadow he's playing classic scum in the sense mainly discussing bad logic in cases made against town. i note that he is hesitant to release information in general though, instead choosing to ask questions to others.

The act of withholding informatiom is akin to this game in my opinion


One thing of high note is that shadow is a hydra game of sorts so i dobt think its smart to make that game a baseline for hsi scum play
Mocsta & IAmRobik hydra
roundabound
Profile Joined February 2014
Niue881 Posts
February 17 2014 02:55 GMT
#996
~moc
Mocsta & IAmRobik hydra
JarJarDrinks
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1302 Posts
February 17 2014 05:35 GMT
#997
##unvote
##vote: sidesprang


This was kinda discussed but sidespringe retracting his vote for roundabout makes no sense:


Here he explains how it's a policy vote:
On February 16 2014 17:26 sidesprang wrote:
Why would we not vote him?
On February 16 2014 17:26 VIVAX420 wrote:
it feels like he's fake claiming scum.
On February 16 2014 17:27 sidesprang wrote:
Then he deserves to get policy lynched, and hopefully a ban aswell.
So he's saying that even if he's town, he deserves to be lynched for fake claiming scum.

So why in the world would he unvote him after round said he was lying?

Here's his explaination:
On February 17 2014 00:59 roundabound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2014 00:54 sidesprang wrote:
And its not a read, its him scumclaiming and voting himself.

So why are you not voting for us now?
Why did the policy disappear?

~rayn
On February 17 2014 01:01 sidesprang wrote:
Cause he took the claim away?
but that makes no sense. He just told us that he deserves to be policy lynched. So the fact that he took the claim away shouldn't have much to do w/ the reason he's voting for him. Especially since:
On February 15 2014 05:08 sidesprang wrote:
No I have no scumreads that I feel strongly enough to lynch.
You'd think that he'd leave his vote on his policy lynch then. It's not like he has some other great read that he really needs to not waste his vote.
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 17 2014 06:25 GMT
#998
JJ, I don't understand how that is exclusively mafia mindset. How can you tell that he's simply not interested in lynching Moc just cause of the claim? Sure, it's inconsistent with what he said earlier, but maybe it's not such a big deal for him after all. People's opinions can change.

The problem I have with your case is that it focuses on "this is what he should have done as town" rather than making observations about playstyle that point towards him being mafia, or weak explanations for his actions.

Surely the lack of interest he has in pursuing people is a point, and the fact that he plays completely different from his town meta (but also different from his coached scum meta), but I don't think that as townie, he would have in any case kept going after raynsta.

~V
Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 17 2014 06:30 GMT
#999
Sorry JJ, I misunderstood something in your case. It's a really good point. I thought that he was believing Mocsta to be scum when he wrote
Then he deserves to get policy lynched, and hopefully a ban aswell.


Feel free to ignore above post.
Kush and Vivax
Ange777
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Germany1164 Posts
February 17 2014 09:38 GMT
#1000
VOTE COUNT:

thrawn2112 (0): IAmRobik
VIVAX420 (0): thrawn2112, Grackaroni, ShiaoPi
IAmRobik (0): roundabound
DoNotPanic! (0): roundabound
Grackaroni (1): IAmRobik, JarJarDrinks
sidesprang (3): roundabound, VIVAX420, Grackaroni, roundabound, JarJarDrinks
ShiaoPi (3): bumatlarge, VIVAX420, Mattchew, roundabound, sidesprang, thrawn2112, VIVAX420, Mattchew, bumatlarge
QuantumPope (2): ShiaoPi, sidesprang
roundabound (1): roundabound,sidesprang, Mattchew, bumatlarge, gumshoe
bumatlarge (0): roundabound
Mordanis (1): roundabound, thrawn2112

With 13 players alive it takes 7 votes to lynch. Only votes in the Voting Thread will be counted!
♥ Sen - 台灣之光 ♥
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