Okay, one case at a time. I'm so bad at organizing this but I assume people are lazy. I'll highlight the essentials and leave the rest to you if you want to take the time to read it.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 20 2014 13:02 suki wrote:So is kush's plan dumb? Or do you think it could help us in the future and there's a reason that's pretty potent? Or are you just indifferent to the whole matter?
Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 11:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
It does NOT matter if scum figure out the setup before town does...in fact given the nature of this game that is pretty much a given. What DOES matter it's that we not tell them exactly what it is ON DAY ONE BEFORE WE GET ANY INFO OURSELVES, which is very possible if we have boxers claim.
Is it worth the risk? I'm starting to think not, but want other opinions.
Inconsistent views on kush's plan (he think's it's dumb / sees arguments for it / is mostly indifferent). Wishy-washy.
And I just hate the bolded red line in general.
##unvote##vote VisceraEyes On January 20 2014 22:33 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 21:44 zarepath wrote:
I thought VE was talking about the two different plans, kush's "don't lynch anyone who claims blue" plan and the Boxer claim plan.
Hm.. You're right. I got confused between the two different plans.
I still don't like his 'want other opinions' comment. When Wile/slam claimed I made a mental note to see who would jump on him because it would be an easy scum bandwagon to try to push. VE insta-voted him.
My vote is staying on VE.
Blah Blah Blah, ve is scummy because other people (myself included called him scum).
On January 20 2014 22:51 suki wrote:
I think Rayn is stretching a bit with his conclusions but that he's pointed out Bum's general attitude this far: Bum is sitting on the fence in general, and he's not contributing to scum hunting.
This is right after Rayn and I started the Zarepath bandwagon. What a convenient time to switch ships.
Wait for, wait for it.
Bum, who do you find scummy and why?
Addressing her scum teammate, ignoring the accusation and asking for input. Gives bum an easy out.
On January 20 2014 23:07 suki wrote:
What has bum done that makes him lean town to you?
On January 21 2014 02:49 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 02:46 bumatlarge wrote:
To be fair, I was not expecting all three initial posts to be completely taken out of context.
For the record I don't think bumatlarge is scum at this point.
But everyone who think's he's town must be scum.
You want to call my posts contradictory?
On January 21 2014 02:35 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 23:13 kushm4sta wrote:
k ill explain my weak townread of bum.
It all comes from reading rayn's case. Bum is trying to figure out VE's alignment. He is questioning the same things about VE's play that I am. So it looks like natural townie suspicion to me.
kush is leaning towards bum being town because Bum is "questioning the same things about VE's play" that he is.
So kush must be referring to when
bum was agreeing with my original case (which was horrible), which pegged VE as scummy. Specifically, bum makes two posts which speak about VE:
+ Show Spoiler +On January 20 2014 18:29 bumatlarge wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 13:02 suki wrote:On January 20 2014 09:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
It's dumb because of what rayn said - you're literally saying "Anyone who claims blue is immune to the lynch". Literally. What is stopping scum from just claiming blue whenever they're on the block?
On January 20 2014 10:01 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yeah I'm mostly indifferent to the matter. I can see the argument for it not being needed and it giving scum information, but I think it could help us in the future by 1) eliminating scum's ability to fake-claim it on the block and 2) forcing scum to decide now whether they want to fake-claim the role.
On January 20 2014 10:02 VisceraEyes wrote:
2 is pretty potent in my opinion. If you don't believe me, take a look at Kush's plan. He wants to make blues IMMUNE to the lynch.
So is kush's plan dumb? Or do you think it could help us in the future and there's a reason that's pretty potent? Or are you just indifferent to the whole matter?
On January 20 2014 11:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
It does NOT matter if scum figure out the setup before town does...in fact given the nature of this game that is pretty much a given. What DOES matter it's that we not tell them exactly what it is ON DAY ONE BEFORE WE GET ANY INFO OURSELVES, which is very possible if we have boxers claim.
Is it worth the risk? I'm starting to think not, but want other opinions.
Inconsistent views on kush's plan (he think's it's dumb / sees arguments for it / is mostly indifferent). Wishy-washy.
And I just hate the bolded red line in general.
##unvote##vote VisceraEyes The scum hunt is strong with this one. I'd like VE to explain his thought process on the first part, he seems to be changing his mind mid post, then it would make more sense as town.
On January 20 2014 18:33 bumatlarge wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 17:48 Wile E. Coyote wrote:On January 20 2014 14:25 VisceraEyes wrote:
##Vote Wile E
His little act about not knowing what a boxer is does not really jive with the claim. Add to that the fact that he claimed 5 hours into the game after being very clear about how he feels about boxers claiming, and it all just looks bad.
This is a logical reaction.
I disagree, the only reason you think it's reasonable is because he is holding back because he probably wrong about you. I'm just working out what I can remember from VE if he posts like this as town.
So. Kush agrees (?) that VE doesn't look good because of bum's points. Bum's points are my case. Kush sees Bum as town, but also sees VE as town.
1. He thinks bum is town for bum's reasoning, which is simply an agreement of someone else's case and no further follow-up
2. He thinks VE is town even though he agrees with bum's agreement that VE looks scummy.
I find it hard to believe a town kush would feel that both bum and VE look town to him, based on the reasons he gave. I definitely see a scum kush screwing up like this.
So Kush is scum for thinking that Bum is townie for agreeing with Suki's case?
On January 21 2014 03:50 suki wrote:
My thought process: bumatlarge agreed with my initial case against VE. It was pointed out that my case was bad and I had mistakenly thought VE was talking about one topic when he was talking about two. Bumatlarge, having agreed with my post, was now coming under fire from Rayn who asked him to point out the inconsistency.
He then said, he was not expecting all three initial posts to be completely taken out of context. I then posted my townread on bum to back him up because I felt like Rayn was going to attack him on this point and I think it would have been a waste of effort.
In hindsight, Rayn was pressuring bum for answers but not accusing him of scum behaviour and there was no reason to have to back bum up.
Unless he's your scum buddy!
DEFENSE! DEFENSE! DEFENSE! Suki and bum are being attacked by rayn. RETREAT! RETREAT! RETREAT!
On January 21 2014 03:55 suki wrote:
@Rayn
'twisting his words' was too strong a phrase to use. You misrepresented them might be a better choice of words? You stating that bum wasn't providing evidence against VE was incorrect, because he did provide evidence - again, minus the wishy-washiness.
Your point on people saying 'he could be mafia, but then he could also be town' is true and I generally see that as a scum tell. However, I did not get that feeling from bum and especially not so now after reading through some of his past filters.
This is too easy. I wasn't defending bum but I'm also not accusing him. If you want to call me scum, look at my filter. I fucking say BALLA IS SCUM.
On January 21 2014 05:52 suki wrote:
Before you vote bum. For no other explanation that you like rayn's post, which amounted to 'bum is being wishy-washy'.
The difference between you and bum is that bum actually scum hunted and made arguments. What about you? All you've done is called out people for being 'bad' and then call them scum for it. The only analysis you've provided is 'This guy is bad at the game therefore he is scummy.'
Your arguments are weak and you just keep repeating the same thing over and over when pressured, which is some variation of OMGUS.
On January 21 2014 05:52 suki wrote:
Before you vote bum. For no other explanation that you like rayn's post, which amounted to 'bum is being wishy-washy'.
The difference between you and bum is that bum actually scum hunted and made arguments. What about you? All you've done is called out people for being 'bad' and then call them scum for it. The only analysis you've provided is 'This guy is bad at the game therefore he is scummy.'
Your arguments are weak and you just keep repeating the same thing over and over when pressured, which is some variation of OMGUS.
Again, more of the same. Defend bum, don't accuse anyone.
On January 21 2014 09:52 suki wrote:
You know what, I agree with you Barristan.
I think Zarepath's case on VE is just a list of points that tries to squeeze out any sort of scumminess. It's weak, but he sounds like he's trying so hard to make it work. His follow up posts are all trying to keep up the pressure on VE.
Compared to the filter linked by Barristan, Zarepath's tone has changed completely. In his previous game filter he had no problem listing off a bunch of people who he thought were scummy, and doing a bunch of analysis. In this game he's only talked about VE and no one else, and VE is not the only suspicious person in this game.
##unvote
##vote Zarepath
I'm going to lay off VE for a bit. Pressuring him is going nowhere and I think he's defended well.
Defended scum pressure?
On January 21 2014 10:02 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 18:33 bumatlarge wrote:
I disagree, the only reason you think it's reasonable is because he is holding back because he probably wrong about you. I'm just working out what I can remember from VE if he posts like this as town.
"Because he (is) probably wrong about you"
VE is accusing WileE of being scum.
Bum thinks WileE is probably town.
-> VE is probably wrong about WileE being scum.
I don't think it's a slip.
If you assume that bum is mafia, then why would he add in 'probably'? To put it another way, if bum had instead said '... he is holding back because he is wrong about you.' that is what I would call a slip, because bum would have just given away the fact that he knows what WileE's alignment is.
This is getting too easy.
On January 21 2014 10:22 suki wrote:
I think Balla is looking more suspicious for not contributing.
I also don't like Jonny's play this game. It's a lot less coherent than our previous game together.
Balla, Jonny: I want to see more activity from both of you. Specifically, your top two scum reads and why.
Here's where the real fun begins.
On January 21 2014 22:49 suki wrote:
Balla
I think Balla's activity is strangely low compared to my last game with him, however reading his filter I feel like his tone is similar to the townie tone that I had in NMM LI. That is, he asks a ton of questions, postures a lot, but doesn't actually press his suspicions. When I was mafia in NMM LI I was actually initially planning to try to get a mislynch on him in Day 3 because I noticed while he pressured a ton of people, he never actually made cases himself.
Of course we ended up shooting him N2 because his pressure was just too good.
My read on Balla right now is neutral, leaning a bit towards town. His tone is more townie to me, and I think his case on Crossfire is characteristic of Balla, because Balla himself likes to jump around (albeit without voting), so he's basically defending his own meta (which isn't showing up this game, strangely). I don't like how he voted Crossfire at the end and then disappeared without any other comments. I want to hear his thoughts on more people.
TLDR: I read Balla as neutral, leaning a bit towards town. Overall tone feels kinda townie, but his lack of activity is suspicious, and his vote on Crossfire followed by disappearance is suspicious. Expect more activity, more pressure Day 2 from him. Do not like him as a Day 1 lynch.
To Balla: Can you please explain maybe in a sentence why there's such a huge change in your activity? And what we can expect from you going forward? Also, reads please. I asked for your top two scum reads earlier and you only talked about Crossfire.
Giving your other scum buddy an out just like she did for bum. This is where I agree that Balla's play could be town balla. I can pull up two different games where I tell him that I expect more out of him. You know who was shot n1 in that game? JonnyLaw.
+ Show Spoiler [SUKI DEFENDING BALLA] +On January 21 2014 22:59 suki wrote:
I was asked what my thoughts on Balla were based on my previous game with him.
On January 21 2014 23:04 suki wrote:
And I want him to contribute more so I can get a better read on him.
On January 21 2014 23:13 suki wrote:
Balla's early game as town is a lot more questioning and posturing and not really scum hunting. In his mafia game he locked onto a target early and stayed on him.
On January 21 2014 23:17 suki wrote:
Right. In other words, he's questioning and posturing.
I feel like a scum Balla would be trying really hard to contribute and show that he's townie despite the lack of activity. This Balla just seems like he's approaching the game in the same manner as when he's townie.
On January 21 2014 23:48 suki wrote:
If i don't even think about the motivation behind Balla's posts in this game and just look at what he has said it looks exactly like he played mafia and nothing like his town play to me.
Balla questions people in both his scum and town games. He isn't questioning people in this game - I blame whatever is causing him to be less active.
In this game, he has a lot of policy talk and 'helpful' posts where he explains things, which in my mind is more of a townie Balla trait. He also goes on Crossfire who has minimal pressure on him at the moment, which is against your meta read of 'no real pushing of his own ideas'.
On January 22 2014 00:08 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 23:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If he thinks that post is so scummy why did he not call it out in the first place? Or if he has such a strong town read on me, why was he more interested in telling "bum and rayn are town" in thread when i was attacking Crossfire for that post?
Right. Why indeed? I feel a scum Balla would be more inclined to scum hunt right away and post reads, while a town Balla is more likely to sit back and digest the thread before posting a case.
I'm not saying Balla's play is good by any means, what I'm saying is that I'd rather wait until he's contributed more before solidifying my read on him. On January 22 2014 02:34 suki wrote:Balla, your opinion on Zarepath and Bumatlarge please.
Also welcome back
On January 22 2014 02:05 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 02:44 bumatlarge wrote:
It might have been just you asking kush twelve times in your filter. I'm going to re-evalute things. I pretty much did what VE did and called him scum. Suki makes case on VE, bum - "cool", rayn makes case on bum, VE - "cool" "OMG VE DIDNT EVEN READ IT"
Bum is really self-conscious throughout the game. I don't like how he stepped off his pressure from VE just because no one was listening to him. If VE was the most scummy person in the game to Bum then he wouldn't have stepped off. If VE wasn't the most scummy, Bum would already have someone in mind who is more scummy and would have posted something I think rather than just disappear.
I'm starting to agree that Bum looks scummy.. but now
Zarepath (my number 1 scum pick) has just bandwagoned (or bussed) onto bum?
Hmm.....
On January 22 2014 02:21 suki wrote:Yeah ok.
Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 06:31 zarepath wrote:On January 21 2014 06:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Nobody is lynching you VE.
Could you care to explain why VE is town despite him obsessing with everyone's opinions of him and blatant sheeping?
I made a whole case about him which everyone has completely ignored in the middle of your penis-measuring contest with Artanis.
Re-reading again, this post reads townie to me. Particularly the part where he points out that his case was ignored, I think for scum it doesn't matter if people listen to their arguments as long as a townie is getting lynched, so pointing out his post reads more town.
Tunneling can be done by town, stretching cases too far is also possible for a really tryhard town.
Zarepath's switch to bum doesn't make sense if both of them are scum. And I agree that bum looks scummy.
##unvote##vote bumatlarge
On January 22 2014 04:59 suki wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 04:50 JonnyLaw wrote:
Suki your basic idea is that zarepath cannot be scum because he brings up his case ONE time after making it then drops it all together?
If there are two lynch candidates and you're one of them don't you pick option b regardless of alignment? His switch to bum was an easy choice imo.
Uh if you're town you push the person you think is the scummiest, regardless if that person is a candidate or not.
If bum is scum, which I think he is, then I don't see scum zarepath voting for bum. It doesn't make sense.
From my point of view either zarepath or bum are scum. It doesn't make sense for both of them to be scum.
On January 22 2014 05:03 suki wrote:
Right now bum looks really bad for pushing such a shitty case on VE, then asking VE questions and when those questions are not answered satisfyingly.... drops the case because nobody's listening to him. The town explanation is he's just frustrated townie not willing to waste any more time.. but if he is, who is more suspicious to him? Why drop your case on your top scum read who hasn't answered any of your questions, when you don't have anyone else who reads scummy to you?
Who else did this earlier in the game?????? Read up if you're interested.
On January 22 2014 06:00 suki wrote:
One other thing I was eyeing was Crossfire's soft defense of Zarepath earlier in the game. Couple this with Zarepath including Crossfire into his list just now (alongside a really stupid desire to lynch WileE)... I think there's a good chance of them being scumbuddies.
##unvote
##vote Zarepath
As soon as there's reason she jumps ship from Bum to Zarepath.
I'm not getting into the posts about me. They've been discussed all game.
TLDR
SUKI SCUM, DEFENDS BALLA AND BUM ALL GAME.
BUM PROBS SCUM WITH HER.
EPT
