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Normal Mini Mafia: Episode I - Page 43

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
January 21 2014 21:18 GMT
#841
yeah that's my role except for the flavor name
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
kushm4sta
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States8878 Posts
January 21 2014 21:20 GMT
#842
On January 22 2014 06:18 thrawn2112 wrote:
yeah that's my role except for the flavor name

so we have three named vts now?
OMGUS.net, kush sex blogs every friday night
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
January 21 2014 21:21 GMT
#843
So this is actually in the rules:

12. Posting a false role PM phrased as if you received it from the host. You can still fake roleclaim, but you cannot make it look like you are posting a PM you received from the host.
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
January 21 2014 21:21 GMT
#844
So, statistically, if you were all telling the truth.

Wile - Named
Zar - Named
Thrawn - Named

That is possible, but its a 1 in 8 chance. I believe there is very little downside for mafia to claim Named, especially one about to be lynched.
Together but separate, like oatmeal
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
January 21 2014 21:22 GMT
#845
and this:

11. Breadcrumbing the specific phrasing of your role PM. Do not compare the phrasing in your role PM to prove your alignment. You can claim the abilities you have, but you can't use the specific phrasing of your role PM.
kushm4sta
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States8878 Posts
January 21 2014 21:23 GMT
#846
suki mad cause scum?
OMGUS.net, kush sex blogs every friday night
suki
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada1159 Posts
January 21 2014 21:23 GMT
#847
No, I just want a fair game. It ruins the fun if something like this occurs.
zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
January 21 2014 21:24 GMT
#848
So that's still breaking the rules if I'm not fake claiming? Crap. Sorry all.
"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
January 21 2014 21:24 GMT
#849
Did he break the rules? I don't understand what's going on now.
zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
January 21 2014 21:27 GMT
#850
Yeah, I did
"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
January 21 2014 21:27 GMT
#851
I think at this point, it's ok. He's not breadcrumbing necessarily, an he's not comparing phrasing. If it's just a copypasted roleclaim, I think it's fine.

Plus, modkilling someone an hour before a lynch would mess with the game.
Together but separate, like oatmeal
Crossfire99
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1529 Posts
January 21 2014 21:31 GMT
#852
Hmmmm. I don't know what to make of zare's claim, but I'm thinking it doesn't matter. I defended him earlier about his case but after all the other things he's said and the other stuff people have pointed out about his case, I could still lynch him.

If the claim scares people off his lynch I'd be willing to vote Balla purely because of his "case" against me.
On January 21 2014 17:09 Balla24 wrote:
I don't like Crossfire at all.

His case on Rayn is super weird, where exactly does what rayn does make him scum? He's pressuring a lot of people with cases and votes. Crossfire is calling him scum for not committing to them and switching targets a lot but how does that make rayn scum?? It doesn't. It makes him town. From town perspective everybody starts as neutral and either gets a mafia read or a town read... its the opposite as scum.

Rayn builds cases on people he thinks are scum, and posts reasoning too, yet Crossfire just latches onto the action itself and NOT the reasoning of rayn's cases. Rayn is one of the most active people in this game, why does Crossfire feel the need to pressure rayn about something so weak?

Then there's this:

Show nested quote +
On January 20 2014 11:06 Crossfire99 wrote:
On January 20 2014 10:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 20 2014 10:01 VisceraEyes wrote:
On January 20 2014 09:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Nobody should claim at this point. Named VT's (boxers) do not help us in any way now because there is a possibility of 0-3 boxers and claiming does not clear anyone, it only gives mafia information about the setup unless we want all people to claim which we don't.

suki, kushmasta does not usually even read his own role PM properly (which is proven by last game for example) so unfortunately that plan does not make him non VT / non named VT and certainly not mafia.

Yeah I'm mostly indifferent to the matter. I can see the argument for it not being needed and it giving scum information, but I think it could help us in the future by 1) eliminating scum's ability to fake-claim it on the block and 2) forcing scum to decide now whether they want to fake-claim the role.

Here is the problem:
If the named VT's claim it gives mafia info about the setup.
  • If there are no named VT's -> mafia knows the setup and can WIFOM by fakeclaiming VT and it's impossible to prove if itäs true or not
  • If there is 1 naved VT -> If mafia has a GF they know the setup, if not, they know town has no more than 1 power role.
  • If there are 2 named VT's -> mafia knows there is only max 1 power role.
  • If there are 3 named VT's -> mafia knows there is no other power roles. they can WIFOM a roleblock on people and it "confirms" that's not the setup, so WIFOM.


Every single possible scenario only helps mafai and not town, so no, don't claim named VT's because they can't be confirmed and it only helps mafia if they know how many Named VT's there are.

Discussion closed.

I don't think it's quite that simple.

I don't care if there are no named VTs or 1 or 2 or 3. Yes scum will be learn things about the setup, but honestly that doesn't matter because scum already know that there are X to Y power roles from their configuration. What claiming now does is prevent scum from being able to fake claim a named VT later. It prevents stupid things happening at lynches. Additionally, if we have power roles it gives them info about where they should begin using their powers. Even if scum decide to fake claim now, it's not like we're giving the named VTs a free pass, we're just treating them like miller claims where the info helps us and prevents scum from claiming something like that (e.g. miller) in the future.

That's all. It all depends if you think it matters if scum knowing the setup is a bad thing or if the claims could even help our power roles. I'll let other people chime in on this.

Ok. Back to this crazy Niners-Seahawks game.


Where rayn points out why claiming Boxers is a bad thing for town and a good thing for mafia. He essentially brushes that off by saying "mafia already knows information about the setup" without really explaining what. Rayn gives him the courtesy to write out his expected outcomes from the plan but Crossfire does not reciprocate.

##vote Crossfire99

His bolded section is just wrong. It's like he just stopped reading my post after the green section or is trying to purposely misconstrue what I'm saying because there is no reason to stop reading in the middle of the sentence. Especially since the very next sentence explains what the advantage (expected outcome) of my plan was, preventing scum from fakeclaiming before a lynch (*cough* zarepeth *coug*).

On January 22 2014 02:31 Balla24 wrote:
Past 2 days have been busier than normal. Can't refresh and spam conversations with people like I normally do which is unfortunate. It's looking a lot better moving forward though.

As far as Crossfire: His case against rayn is bad and really construed, its very large but the only thing he is attacking is the fact that rayn has jumped around a lot. Like it doesn't make sense to put that much effort into that first off, and secondly why does he feel the need to pressure rayn of all people who is active as hell and will be more readable because of it. It just feels very wrong. The second bit about the Boxers claiming thing is obvious that there is scum motivation for discussing it and getting the town onboard. So him brushing off what was said is super suspicious.

Other people who look bad: Jonnylaw, Artanis. Artanis's game plan is really weird and underwhelming to me. He comes in trying to hard read rayn, accuses him of being scum and then leaves. Not only did he only accuse you of being scum because he thinks you have "something to hide" but you had done so much already and now that there was more.

This quote where he restates his scum read on me also doesn't work. He's saying I shouldn't pressure rayn just because he's active. That's dumb. If you think someone could be scum, you don't just not pressure them because they're active. He also just assumes that my plan is purely scum motivated and didn't have a legitimate point which was what I said about the whole prevents scum from fake claiming.

Basically, Balla seems to purposely miscontrue what I'm saying and paint it in a scummy light instead of just actually reading what I'm saying.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
January 21 2014 21:31 GMT
#853
ugh.. i have no idea what to do.
table for two on a tv tray
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
January 21 2014 21:32 GMT
#854
Well that's anti-climactic.
kushm4sta
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States8878 Posts
January 21 2014 21:33 GMT
#855
On January 22 2014 06:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
ugh.. i have no idea what to do.

close your eyes, believe in scumslips, and vote bum
OMGUS.net, kush sex blogs every friday night
Crossfire99
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1529 Posts
January 21 2014 21:34 GMT
#856
I don't understand what just happened. I don't think he broke the rules at all. I've given fake claims to scum in my games and they can copy paste it. I think that rule refers to timestamps or jazz like that.
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
January 21 2014 21:34 GMT
#857
I say 100% for fairness' sake we cannot change the vote. It's shitty but I think it would have passed regardless. Hell, he could still be lying but rules 11 and 12 make me believe scum did not receive at a role pm to fake claim.
kushm4sta
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States8878 Posts
January 21 2014 21:34 GMT
#858
maybe he will just get modkiled and we dont have to worry about it?
fingers crossed.
he does need to be modkilled though.
OMGUS.net, kush sex blogs every friday night
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
January 21 2014 21:35 GMT
#859
On January 22 2014 06:34 JonnyLaw wrote:
I say 100% for fairness' sake we cannot change the vote. It's shitty but I think it would have passed regardless. Hell, he could still be lying but rules 11 and 12 make me believe scum did not receive at a role pm to fake claim.

Well this is terrible.
table for two on a tv tray
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
January 21 2014 21:35 GMT
#860
11. Breadcrumbing the specific phrasing of your role PM. Do not compare the phrasing in your role PM to prove your alignment. You can claim the abilities you have, but you can't use the specific phrasing of your role PM.
12. Posting a false role PM phrased as if you received it from the host. You can still fake roleclaim, but you cannot make it look like you are posting a PM you received from the host.
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