EPTA Quiet Game of Mini Mafia - Page 50
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 09 2014 05:15 Corazon wrote: You're not helping my theory that you did not really believe in your Iamp lynch and just wrote it because people were asking for activity from you. I also wrote two other things that you're ignoring, instead choosing to focus on the one thing I've actually said I was wrong about. Go away. | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On January 09 2014 05:16 yamato77 wrote: I also wrote two other things that you're ignoring, instead choosing to focus on the one thing I've actually said I was wrong about. Go away. My problem is that you failed to mention your 180 on Iamp until you just sheeped everyone else and voted for me. That's what I find scummy. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 09 2014 05:19 Corazon wrote: My problem is that you failed to mention your 180 on Iamp until you just sheeped everyone else and voted for me. That's what I find scummy. I mentioned it before. Also, it's not sheeping when I make a fucking case on you myself. Again, read the damn game. | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Yamato makes a case and votes on me That's sheeping | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 09 2014 05:21 Corazon wrote: Everyone talks about how I'm scummy Yamato makes a case and votes on me That's sheeping whatever | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Of course. | ||
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
Corazon - Senseless, yelling at people, calling people scum. It's difficult to formulate a decent read on him without factoring in the douchebaggery involved. Do scum act like this often? Or is this something specifically attributed to Corazon? If anyone has a scum corazon game on hand I'd like to see it. @Cora I want you to calm down. Give us your top scumreads with 2-3 reasons why for each. Honestly the sense is just strew apart in the thread, maybe it's there if I can get a consolidated post. You've been a bitch to me already for no reason, and I have no problem lynching you. If you're town I want the best reads you can give me. Yamato - I think he's town. Based on extractor I don't see a reason he cant be town here, and lynching him day 1 is probably a mistake. JAT - leaning scum. When I was arguing with rayn about the semantic thing (which, by the way, people have to stop saying shit thats confusing) he jumped right on with a few posts to bolster the argument which was clearly false. I also didn't like how he fought with bugs about the kush thing. It also looks like he misinterpreted my-artanis interaction at the beginning of the day which didn't make sense to me. Rayn - Probably town, though Idk what rayn scum looks like. He tunnels on cora and bullshits at him which is fine (well.. w.e.). I am really hesitant about listening to his reasoning after extractor. Thrawn - looks town, would bang. Artanis - Idk where the hell he went after voting me for crap reasons. Tunneled onto me for similarly crap reasons. Would lynch if anyone is down. So right now I'm looking at JAT/Artanis or a policy of cora/kush. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On January 09 2014 05:05 yamato77 wrote: WBG, I gauge reactions of the thread as town before voting. Your point is not alignment indicative. Sure, everyone gauges reactions, but the manner matters. Most townies will often confidently push their lynch, even if sometimes they are not truly completely confident, because if their argument is persuasive, then it will gain momentum on its own merits. I do not believe that you are an exception to this. You pushed a weak case on a player who was obviously not being suspected by many players, if any at all. That he was unsuspected was pretty obvious even though no one actually outright said so. As town, if I had a dissenting opinion and I thought it was important enough to vote the target more than 24 hours into the day I'd probably come back yelling at people to not become complacent and let someone like iamp slip through the cracks as "towny enough". Yet, you didn't do that. You even knew the vote wasn't valid and you didn't bother reaffirming it. A person's vote in the game is pretty much the only thing we can truly hold them accountable for, because regardless of what they say the vote is what ultimately matters. This is just basics, anyone who has played the game as much as you should know it. I don't think you're a bad player and thus the avenue you took regarding iamp is really scummy. For anyone who is interested, try reading these following posts and try to guess Yamato's alignment in each. I've pulled almost all of these from day 1s of games in an attempt to keep them mostly homogeneous, though they may come from games of different sizes and types. + Show Spoiler + yamato77 wrote: I'm really only interested in figuring out the alignments of Marv and Hapa, because if they are town they will figure the rest of you out and we'll win the game. If they are scum we lynch them and the game becomes far easier to figure out. So forgive me for ignoring everyone else, my posts will be focused on them. First of all, the way Marv entered the thread earlier today acting superior is a "holier than thou" attitude that I would not expect from town Marv towards two players he has played with so much in the past (Oats and myself). Mind you, his interactions with us basically served no purpose other than to establish his early activity, discredit my early vote, and to shit up the thread with Oats. He doesn't think either of us are mafia. Plenty of mafia motivation in his actions there. Since then, of course, he's been pro-town, but I know he's more than capable of that for at least a few hours. What is even more perplexing to me is that Hapa, when questioned about the alignment of Marv, specifically said that this did not look like a "holier-than-thou" scum-Marv. If Hapa was town and Marv scum, he may be the only one well-versed enough in the wiles of mafia Marvellosity to truly push his lynch, but this shows that he's either not reading Marv very closely or has pre-decided what he thinks of Marv with some information from out of the thread. Either way, this is what a mafia Hapa would be like regarding Marv as either alignment. I may yet be wrong and this could be attributable to Hapa being up late and tired from all the awesome DotA we played, but it's something to note. Aside from those interactions, I've yet to be particularly impressed by the scumhunting efforts of either player, but it is still in the first half of D1 and there is time yet to do better. Hapa going after debears was not what I usually see out of him as town. If anyone wants to talk about the alignment of these two, feel free to respond. I will be on thread later. + Show Spoiler + yamato77 wrote: Mattchew, what exactly is a "sandroba type player" to you? And how does he differ from Marv in the early game? I agree that catching Marv early is hard, but I don't know how that makes him different from Sandro. Is sandro easy to catch as mafia or something? Also, I don't understand how you think playing with the assumption that marv = town is a good idea. While he's often pro-town as mafia or scum, wouldn't you not want to let yourself be influenced by marv's opinions on the alignments of players if he is mafia? + Show Spoiler + On February 15 2013 16:20 yamato77 wrote: Let me walk you through my thought process on Zess, since that seems to be what people think I'm not explaining. When someone starts the game as he did, voting a player under "random" pretensions, I immediately am inclined to think they're mafia. It's a very dumb way to look like you're playing around and being funny with the rest of town, when in reality you're starting what sometimes becomes a trend, establishing an early atmosphere of voting people on a whim, for almost no reason at all. It is in these types of environments that mafia thrive. And indeed, it did turn into a trend as soon as he threw his vote on me for something completely townie, and barely justifying it. How is me trying to figure out people's alignments scummy? To be clear, when I "insinuated" that Mattchew/Syllo were mafia, I was in the process of attempting to get information that would lead me toward their alignment. i consider the possibility that they are mafia, because in some way, what they're doing could come from a mafia perspective. In fact, since that time, the information I've been able to ascertain has told me the opposite, they seem town. Why does he want to paint me scum so quick for this? And indeed, when I indirectly ask about his read, he says he hasn't called me scum. What sense does this make? If anything, it only serves to strengthen my bias against him, that he's not playing to figure out my alignment, he's playing to stir shit up with me and fuck off with his reads. His other "reads" have been very noncommittal, especially with regards to Marv, where he says he "agrees with Toad" (who has voted for Marv) and then lists a whole bunch of reasons he isn't jumping on it. Waiting for the opportune moment, I presume? Perhaps I haven't really explained myself thoroughly up to this point, but when you look at him from my perspective, Zess' play makes no sense for a townie. The fact that he's continued to be spammy and contentless since my early vote on him only serves to steel my resolve. Dude is mafia. Many of them only really make sense in context, though (the previous one might be one of those) With that said, check out his filter from this game as well: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=373946&user=yamato77&view=all Notice the tone, try to put yourself in the shoes of the player from both alignments. What makes more sense? The timestamps are also helpful, as they give an insight into activity level. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
##Vote: Mr.Cheesecake | ||
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
On January 09 2014 05:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##unvote ##Vote: Mr.Cheesecake Hi | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On January 09 2014 05:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##unvote ##Vote: Mr.Cheesecake So remember how I said we'd have trouble consolidating? | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 09 2014 05:24 wherebugsgo wrote: Sure, everyone gauges reactions, but the manner matters. Most townies will often confidently push their lynch, even if sometimes they are not truly completely confident, because if their argument is persuasive, then it will gain momentum on its own merits. I do not believe that you are an exception to this. You pushed a weak case on a player who was obviously not being suspected by many players, if any at all. That he was unsuspected was pretty obvious even though no one actually outright said so. As town, if I had a dissenting opinion and I thought it was important enough to vote the target more than 24 hours into the day I'd probably come back yelling at people to not become complacent and let someone like iamp slip through the cracks as "towny enough". Yet, you didn't do that. You even knew the vote wasn't valid and you didn't bother reaffirming it. A person's vote in the game is pretty much the only thing we can truly hold them accountable for, because regardless of what they say the vote is what ultimately matters. This is just basics, anyone who has played the game as much as you should know it. I don't think you're a bad player and thus the avenue you took regarding iamp is really scummy. For anyone who is interested, try reading these following posts and try to guess Yamato's alignment in each. I've pulled almost all of these from day 1s of games in an attempt to keep them mostly homogeneous, though they may come from games of different sizes and types. + Show Spoiler + yamato77 wrote: I'm really only interested in figuring out the alignments of Marv and Hapa, because if they are town they will figure the rest of you out and we'll win the game. If they are scum we lynch them and the game becomes far easier to figure out. So forgive me for ignoring everyone else, my posts will be focused on them. First of all, the way Marv entered the thread earlier today acting superior is a "holier than thou" attitude that I would not expect from town Marv towards two players he has played with so much in the past (Oats and myself). Mind you, his interactions with us basically served no purpose other than to establish his early activity, discredit my early vote, and to shit up the thread with Oats. He doesn't think either of us are mafia. Plenty of mafia motivation in his actions there. Since then, of course, he's been pro-town, but I know he's more than capable of that for at least a few hours. What is even more perplexing to me is that Hapa, when questioned about the alignment of Marv, specifically said that this did not look like a "holier-than-thou" scum-Marv. If Hapa was town and Marv scum, he may be the only one well-versed enough in the wiles of mafia Marvellosity to truly push his lynch, but this shows that he's either not reading Marv very closely or has pre-decided what he thinks of Marv with some information from out of the thread. Either way, this is what a mafia Hapa would be like regarding Marv as either alignment. I may yet be wrong and this could be attributable to Hapa being up late and tired from all the awesome DotA we played, but it's something to note. Aside from those interactions, I've yet to be particularly impressed by the scumhunting efforts of either player, but it is still in the first half of D1 and there is time yet to do better. Hapa going after debears was not what I usually see out of him as town. If anyone wants to talk about the alignment of these two, feel free to respond. I will be on thread later. + Show Spoiler + yamato77 wrote: Mattchew, what exactly is a "sandroba type player" to you? And how does he differ from Marv in the early game? I agree that catching Marv early is hard, but I don't know how that makes him different from Sandro. Is sandro easy to catch as mafia or something? Also, I don't understand how you think playing with the assumption that marv = town is a good idea. While he's often pro-town as mafia or scum, wouldn't you not want to let yourself be influenced by marv's opinions on the alignments of players if he is mafia? + Show Spoiler + On February 15 2013 16:20 yamato77 wrote: Let me walk you through my thought process on Zess, since that seems to be what people think I'm not explaining. When someone starts the game as he did, voting a player under "random" pretensions, I immediately am inclined to think they're mafia. It's a very dumb way to look like you're playing around and being funny with the rest of town, when in reality you're starting what sometimes becomes a trend, establishing an early atmosphere of voting people on a whim, for almost no reason at all. It is in these types of environments that mafia thrive. And indeed, it did turn into a trend as soon as he threw his vote on me for something completely townie, and barely justifying it. How is me trying to figure out people's alignments scummy? To be clear, when I "insinuated" that Mattchew/Syllo were mafia, I was in the process of attempting to get information that would lead me toward their alignment. i consider the possibility that they are mafia, because in some way, what they're doing could come from a mafia perspective. In fact, since that time, the information I've been able to ascertain has told me the opposite, they seem town. Why does he want to paint me scum so quick for this? And indeed, when I indirectly ask about his read, he says he hasn't called me scum. What sense does this make? If anything, it only serves to strengthen my bias against him, that he's not playing to figure out my alignment, he's playing to stir shit up with me and fuck off with his reads. His other "reads" have been very noncommittal, especially with regards to Marv, where he says he "agrees with Toad" (who has voted for Marv) and then lists a whole bunch of reasons he isn't jumping on it. Waiting for the opportune moment, I presume? Perhaps I haven't really explained myself thoroughly up to this point, but when you look at him from my perspective, Zess' play makes no sense for a townie. The fact that he's continued to be spammy and contentless since my early vote on him only serves to steel my resolve. Dude is mafia. Many of them only really make sense in context, though (the previous one might be one of those) With that said, check out his filter from this game as well: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=373946&user=yamato77&view=all Notice the tone, try to put yourself in the shoes of the player from both alignments. What makes more sense? The timestamps are also helpful, as they give an insight into activity level. Look dude, I made the vote to see what he'd do. If he did nothing else in response, I would have been fine lynching him. But he didn't, and his response was townish, and I dropped a case I admittedly didn't think was that strong after seeing how the thread responded to it. End of story. Meta comparisons are not strong here. I am not playing like I have as town in the past. | ||
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On January 09 2014 05:28 yamato77 wrote: Look dude, I made the vote to see what he'd do. If he did nothing else in response, I would have been fine lynching him. But he didn't, and his response was townish, and I dropped a case I admittedly didn't think was that strong after seeing how the thread responded to it. End of story. Meta comparisons are not strong here. I am not playing like I have as town in the past. So what you're saying is.... let me live another day, and I won't be useless? Sadly I don't really think I have a choice, but assuming we're both alive tomorrow and you have yet to be of use I'll probably come hunting for your head. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
Other than that he has done nothing in this game but had an argument with Artanis, then he had no read on him, then he wanted to lynch him, then he said it was in fact a conversation starter, and then he wanted to lynch him again for no reasoning. | ||
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