EPT[I] [S] Shadow Mini Mafia
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Toadesstern
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Haven't read a thing yet because artanis forgot to send me an obs-QT link and I didn't even know this started. Starting reading now but it's 1am... so probably some more tomorrow. | ||
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That being said, I still have 30 pages to go. I'll probably finish that sometime later tonight but I don't think it's going to be that soon. I'm trying to refrain myself from posting as much as possible until I finished reading, so if you want to ask me something go ahead and do so, I'll most likely answer within a given time (whatever that might be) but please don't expect me to be the one innitiating "contact" until I caught up. | ||
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On January 24 2014 05:58 gonzaw wrote: So, are we all in the same page here that VE will only talk about Foo and Prome for the rest of the game? Conspicuously absent is Holy, now hypnotoad a.k.a Toad, from his ramblings. like I said, I'm reading. Time spent posting is time spent not reading right now... But we can talk a little if you want, I spent the last hours and I'm getting a headache so I need something else to do for now or I'm going crazy. I read everything from the point I replaced in. From the people that seem to be worth looking into I really don't see foolishness being mafia. As far as I've come, I liked his posts and agreed with most of it, I liked his thought process when he pointed it out and when he didn't I found myself knowing what he's getting at because I had the same idea when reading something. VE is weird but I'd lean town on him so far. Town-VE is a man who likes to go on an adventure and posts like he doesn't give a crap. He posts weird, he posts stuff that makes people go "wat?" and all that kind of stuff. Mafia VE restrains himself more because he knows he has to and I'm not seeing that. Not sure about Kita yet, he's all over the place. WoS certainly the one I'd want lynched the most atm. Some stuff I didn't like about him. So pretty much start from the bottom and work my way up. Other than that I do have some beef with Hapa but he seems not to be an option right now due to votings so I'll trust you guys on that one until I'm done reading. Anything you want to talk about in specific? I'm not going to ramble or hypnotoad this game if you're looking forward (?) to that. Kind of got myself lynched as town (like actively, not passivly...) in the last game I played on d1 because I couldn't stand talking to rayn anymore and he kept tunneling everyone no matter what... so main goal right now is to make sure that doesn't happen again. | ||
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On January 24 2014 07:14 gonzaw wrote: Ehmm...who is scum? That seems to be a good question. I'm a bit more uncertain about VE after reading it. I agree with foolish's big post and think it's even more unlikely for him to be mafia now. Kita's big post is something special. I'm not sure if I agree with the latter part but I do agree with the upper part a lot. I don't recall anything WoS said during that period, which isn't anything good and like I said I already said he's the one I'd like to see lynched the most. It pretty much echoes what I've said about those 4 before except for VE going down a little, so don't lynch foolish, VE and kita are both about equal for me and WoS the best guy to lynch. | ||
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On January 24 2014 07:18 Toadesstern wrote: I'm a bit more uncertain about VE after reading it. I agree with foolish's big post and think it's even more unlikely for him to be mafia now. Kita's big post is something special. I'm not sure if I agree with the latter part but I do agree with the upper part a lot. I don't recall anything WoS said during that period, which isn't anything good and like I said I already said he's the one I'd like to see lynched the most. It pretty much echoes what I've said about those 4 before except for VE going down a little, so don't lynch foolish, VE and kita are both about equal for me and WoS the best guy to lynch. EBWOP I don't recall anything WoS said during that period, which isn't anything good that was supposed to be "the fact that nothing stood out is bad", not "there wasn't anything that wasn't good" | ||
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On January 24 2014 07:26 Toadesstern wrote: he posted around 7:40 TL time, I didn't see him go crazy shouting like a mad man later on. Would have expected him to be more down that line in that situation when he was certainly there not posting. and when I say that I mean he didn't post after 7:40 at all, which is 20 minutes prior to deadline. I don't think he goes afk 20 minutes prior to deadline if he gets in here and posts at 7:40 so I assume he was there not posting. The lack of posts in that timeframe is something I consider to be really odd and I do see a mafiareasoning behind it. Mafia doesn't want to pile on Sand when Sand was still at 0 or 1 posts at all, why should they. At the same time they don't want to later on either and at the same time mafia certainly doesn't want to defend him either. Sounds like a nice way to get out of that dilemma, just that like I said he happened to have posted just a sec before it happened... Actually now that I think about it, I'd actually put VE even more on the scummy side | ||
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On January 24 2014 07:47 WaveofShadow wrote: Phoneposting just to say this is horseshit and pissed me off as I read it. You don't remember anything I said from around the lynch BECAUSe I WaSNT rTHERE for it sorry my bad, I read really quickly and I just didn't remember anything from you. I assumed I must have forgotten anything but if you weren't there than you obviously weren't there to begin with. However, it's the same problem I'm having with VE. I can see a good reason for mafias not to post during the last 20 minutes. It does sound a little convenient. | ||
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On January 24 2014 08:07 Promethelax wrote: So hapa has WoS VE Holy Fool as scummy. I was hoping he had a clear target before the resolution deadline that would have suggested that he was killed to push a single lynch. In terms of history: marv or I are the most likely to kill Hapa as scum n1 I think. I actually disagree. Quick check through his filter, ignoring his last post because it was before deadline, will show up WoS a lot more than anyone else, especially if you compare it to VE who would be the one to show up more in Gonzaw's filter. So as I'm still going with the WoS and VE both look really bad, especially given that they both equally failed to do anything d1 deadline (clicky! here to see why that's an issue I'd lean on WoS even more now. ##vote WoS | ||
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On January 24 2014 08:18 gonzaw wrote: Toad, you already caught up with the thread right? Would you mind us helping us with this Foolishness conundrum we seem to have? well I'm missing out on some 10 or so pages inbetween but yeah I guess. I don't really see a conundrum on Foolishness to be honest. I'd rather lynch into one of you five guys than Foolish atm. I really do not think he'd behave the way he did before deadline if he knew Sandro was mafia so either he played withough knowing his alignment or he's just town. | ||
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do you see a reason for Foolish to post the way he did when he should have known that Sand is mafia, assuming Foolish is mafia as well? Because I don't see one. Why should he defend Sand despite having him as mafia read earlier like when talking to marv over here: On January 23 2014 06:59 Foolishness wrote: Yes Yes As I said, my posts always accomplish something (besides the one I posted before this cause you guys frustrate me to no end). You want to run wild theories that's fine by me, but I'm pretty sure you find less mafia than I do. Yes, HolyFlare lynch is good. There's no reason to do that despite actually thinking that the Prom lynch is tons better. Sounds very much like a (little bit) paranoid guy who's trying to get the best possible lynch he's seeing. Take into consideration that people were voting him as well and I see no reason for him to ever post like this. | ||
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On January 24 2014 08:45 Toadesstern wrote: do you see a reason for Foolish to post the way he did when he should have known that Sand is mafia, assuming Foolish is mafia as well? Because I don't see one. Why should he defend Sand despite having him as mafia read earlier like when talking to marv over here: There's no reason to do that despite actually thinking that the Prom lynch is tons better. Sounds very much like a (little bit) paranoid guy who's trying to get the best possible lynch he's seeing. Take into consideration that people were voting him as well and I see no reason for him to ever post like this if he's mafia | ||
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On January 24 2014 08:46 gonzaw wrote: You said you'd prefer lynching "you five guys". Who are these five guys, and why did you say "you"? the people who voted Sandro were five people weren't they? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [this] + Sandroba (5): gonzaw, austinmcc, marvellosity, I just still got you in my had as those 5 who voted sand. | ||
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On January 24 2014 08:50 gonzaw wrote: ...but Hapa is confirmed dead town. Do you want to lynch him? And doesn't make much sense, you prefer lynching any of the guys leading a last minute unexpected lynch on scum, rather than Foo? the first is adressed above. The second, yeah both seems incredibly unlikely and I'm betting on 2 mafias being within WoS/VE/Kita but if that's not the case, yeah I'd actually rather start looking into one of those 4, starting with prom, marv and austin before considering foolish. | ||
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do you really need to ask me that? Gonzaw asked that and that was my answer. Apparently I am. I don't consider it a likely scenario at all and don't see a point in talking about it, but yes I am. | ||
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On January 24 2014 09:23 marvellosity wrote: How is the guy kinda resisting the scum lynch somehow townier than all the dudes on the scum lynch? Are you insane? I had a townread on him really early on, the rest is adress over clicky! TL;DR: I see no reason for him to be resisting a Sandro lynch as mafia in his position. I do see a reason for him to be resisting a Sandroba lynch as town in his position: Trying to get the best possible lynch he thinks he can get. Sure it could be some super complex strategy into whatever ballsy play but there's no reason to even consider that right now when the simply solution at hand just makes sense and doesn't need your brain to work overtime to somehow make it plausible. I like simple solutions, especially if there's no reason to think otherwise. | ||
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On January 24 2014 09:35 marvellosity wrote: I love that your simple solution = people on mafia lynch are more suspicious than person off mafia lynch Definitely the simple solution toad. Your mind is a marvel. I never said that's a simple solution. I said they're both incredibly stupid solutions and I like to not have to consider either of those at all. I may have exaggerated a little when putting it the way I did... all I wanted to get across is that I don't see a foolishness-riddle or however gonzaw called it and there's no way I'm going to consider him with other people around right now and that he shouldn't be in the same category as WoS / VE / Kita right now. | ||
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On January 24 2014 10:03 austinmcc wrote: Two questions for you. (1) Do you stand by this even though the actual lynch started 10 minutes before deadline? Sandroba didn't get a third vote until marv with 5 minutes to go, and got hammered with only 4 minutes left. Since you weren't around, even though you have timestamps, I'm not sure you have the full understanding of the speed at which things shifted to sandroba, and so I'm not sure that evaluating how much someone resisted or didn't resist is entirely reliable. (2) At what point do you see Foolishness resisting Sandro's lynch because he wants the best possible lynch from his point of view, i.e., prome? At least for me, I see a mix of comments from Foolishness. I agree that some of his comments are pure "I want the best possible lynch I can get" - + Show Spoiler [from the time of Gonzaw's vote] + On January 23 2014 07:52 Foolishness wrote: Should just do the Promethelax lynch cause that's a lynch for mafia. Sandroba is still iffy On January 23 2014 07:54 Foolishness wrote: I'm probably going to have to anyways so don't worry lol Perhaps I'm just that sure on Promethelax, and in these situations my reads get messed up in my head because of all the pressure. So I default to my strongest read before going on crazy goose chases. But the actual majority of his quotes aren't even that prome is BETTER, it's that the sandro lynch is BAD or the people on it are IMPLICITLY SCUMMY - + Show Spoiler [from same timeframe] + On January 23 2014 07:51 Foolishness wrote: I don't even like the sandroba lynch lol doesn't like sandroba lynch period, even though an afk sand is a scummy sand, sand's absence speaks volumes, etc. On January 23 2014 07:56 Foolishness wrote: There is no way the sandroba lynch is good. Despite sand being one of his scummers, his absence speaking volumes, etc.There's no way this sandroba lynch is good. Also "Back. Caught up and also read Prome. Fine with a prome lynch." - Austin Plus the quote from me on prome without ever mentioning that I've been saying prome or sand for the last hour or so. This is a very, very, very lazy post. If he'd read my posts, he would know that the quote above is not a full summary of my thoughts. On January 23 2014 07:59 Foolishness wrote: This one doesn't say much. He doesn't call prome a good lynch here, doesn't call sand a bad, but now is worried about the specific players swapping. He was townie on me previously, keeps +1ing bits of my posts, but now he's just saying "some players" are joining for "no reason." No specifics. No calling anyone out. The only person he called out was me, and his callout on me is a misrepresentation at best.Well, there are some players who said they were okay with Promethelax but are joining the sandroba vote for no reason. That's everything Foolishness typed in thread during those 10 minutes. I don't know that, looking at his activity from the time the sandro lynch took off, he can really be said to be "trying to get the best possible lynch he can get." He puts 0 effort into convincing anyone to vote Prome at this point, he never says WHY AREN'T YOU VOTING PROME? PROME DID A, B, and C. He just says that Prome is better a couple times, but also just calls the sandro lynch bad, and shadily drops a piece of my posts in there. 1) I think I was exaggerating a little and not quite getting understanding the situation at the same time. I had 20 minutes in my mind when I looked up something about VE but yeah you're actually right it's just 5 minutes. I'll look into it again tomorrow. 2) I didn't take the posts you have in your 2nd spoiler as serious as you seem to take them because he has been pointing at Sandroba earlier and I basicly read it as "yeah I really think this prom lynch is the better lynch" That's what happens when gonzaw forces you to get through the thread as quickly as possible, ignoring half of the pages... I'll look at it again tomorrow and see what to make of it, it's 2:20 over here.I'll be taking more time for myself to process things properly... things seem to mix up in my head and yeah I have to agree with you guys right now | ||
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On January 24 2014 22:12 gonzaw wrote: @Steve WoSniak: Ehmm. Seems you are trying way too hard to justify some of VE's behaviour....when it's basically injustifiable, you just say "it makes him scum" or "I'll ignore it". Actually, yeah, it is. Way more important than "Does VE ragequit as scum?" speculation and "Scum VE wouldn't post shit on gonzaw with shitty reasons because he'd know it'd look bad therefore VE is town" I also wouldn't really talk too much about that "if sandro is scum he'll do good later" stuff you both posted. Yes, if both of you are scum it's weird......but like really it seems to just have no importance at all when looking at the big picture or at stuff that matters (like....the lynch and shit) It's obvious I tried to save my scumbuddy Foo by trying to get him lynched, then get my actual sandro buddy lynched, to make me and Foo look good so then I can fake having a change of heart on him and ride that town cred to victory Of course. yeah I'm about here and I got to agree with this. Especially the upper part. I read that thing about VE and it felt so incredibly forced. He's constantly bringing things up that he essentially calls impossible to decide on what to make of it, could be town-VE or mafia-VE and in the end somehow concludes that they're all towntraits in this case? I get the martyring part, sorry about that btw, and I could easily see how WoS would come to the conclusion, but other than that it really does sound forced. Brb | ||
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On January 25 2014 01:06 marvellosity wrote: I'm not sure. gonzaw was kinda kidding around earlier, but mafia are in a fucking vile spot so stupidity like this is something I'd countenance. VE+you are pushing weird scumteam theories. Toad thinks Fool is townier than sand voters. kita is oddly on the sidelines. In your favour is that you are here. Whether you're mafia or not, though, I don't get this whole line of anything. Could Prome+sandro be mafia together? Yes, it's possible Is there any particular reason why this should be the case? No, not really. I'd actually like to take that back. No idea what I was thinking yesterday... Had the whole voteswitch happening over a longer time period in my head and after rereading some of the posts Foolish did I just don't think they're that alignment indicative as it seemed on first look. Like when he mentioned that if he's mafia he has no plan to win because he's limiting the lynch candidates. Same thing can be said about Kita and myself and VE certainly doesn't look like he's having any kind of longterm plan whatsoever either. The exception here's WoS as he still holds firmly on this prom lynch he wants to get, only ever so slightly hinting at maybe being willing to lynch Foolishness a little more but not actually doing so. checking out his filter atm, you'll get something from me in a while. | ||
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On January 25 2014 01:28 WaveofShadow wrote: Nope, it's the reason I've been considering him town. Go ahead and tell me your post is not bias right now. Tell me how likely it is that as scum I'd take the difficult way out here, hard defend my scumbuddy ALL GAME rather than acquiesce quietly. It's waaaayyyyy more likely that I am wrong about VE than we are both scum. KISS. Let's assume I'm in your shoes. Let's assume your shoes are townie shoes. I don't think I put it that way. | ||
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On January 25 2014 01:31 WaveofShadow wrote: I don't give a shit because it's the truth. what's the truth. VE being mafia and you being wrong? Why didn't you say so from the beginning instead of doing those 2 wall of texts telling everyone how town he is for things that are in your opinion most likely not alignment indicative. | ||
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Like I said, from my innitial read I didn't like WoS and most of it comes down to how he presented himself in the thread early on. Not surprising considering that my innitial read only consisted of the first 20 or so pages. Anyways, let's start with his very first post of the game: On January 21 2014 10:39 WaveofShadow wrote: Welp, gonna go with my usual opener. I think the only difference here is for the first time I'm actually relieved to roll town. I'd be pretty terrified to go up against this town as scum. One of these days I will have another scumgame; it seems that day is not today. Holy! Where you at? I've never played a non-voice game with you before. Let's do something. and given his more recent posts, like the two about VE this really is a common theme here: It doesn't look genuine at all. So first of all you'll realize the first phrase, being Welp, gonna go with my usual opener. and you'll probably think that it doesn't sound motivated at all, but whatever, could be anything, right? So you continue reading and he explains how he's happy that he rolled town because he'd be terrified to go up against town in this game. Now the green thing on itself is nothing at all, like I said could be anything, but take into account that he actually points out that he's happy to have rolled town and I don't believe a word he says. That post doesn't sound delighted, happy or whatever else. It does sound like he's completly unmotivated On we go: On January 21 2014 10:51 WaveofShadow wrote: well yeah, could be anything, right? Next post:lol I'm really hoping you're not scum kita. Nah no reason to vote sandroba yet. Not only is there basically nothing to vote him for, I've seen what he's capable of as the game progresses (from PYP) and if he is town and plays this game anything like that, he'll start slow and then start bringing the pain to scum. On January 21 2014 11:21 WaveofShadow wrote: As far as I can tell, he doesn't respond to pressure on himself this early so it wouldn't matter. I only offered that as an aside anyway, my main reason for not wanting to vote him is because I literally don't see one. Hapa, do you see yourself getting shot N1 in this game? you guys seem to like the word coincidence, what about this one? Not reason YET to vote Sandro and next post he says there's no reason at all. Why would he want to say "yet" if he doesn't think he's scummy to begin with. Yes I'm accusing him to have known that Sandro is red and he slipped here slightly. A lot of people have mentioned that what he has posted feels faked. I'm not going to quote the big VE-post for the threads sake so instead I'm going with a combi-solution and picked something that I just don't like and I think was faked as well: On January 22 2014 10:32 WaveofShadow wrote: It's totes gonna be me I CAN FEEL IT Your current scumread is still Prome I believe? Prome is also a player who often comes out with a massive case against someone and pushes it pretty hard. Why do you not reserve the same judgment for him? Not much to say here, I just put it as an "example" post to adress this in general. Yes The VE post is a lot better of an example and you should certainly read that and what was replied about that. another examplary quote: On January 21 2014 15:42 WaveofShadow wrote: Only preliminary reads I really have are those who have been actively participating in the thread. I have VE as my strongest townread atm, which I believe I have mentioned before (or at least hinted towards). Hapa I have you as slight town because your entrance and play thus far is consistent with how I remember you from that one game where I smurfed as Gravityman, though I remain wary here because I am not the best meta-user around. Your lines of questioning appear pretty towny as well so even without meta you keep the cursory townread. I have Prome as null atm for a combination of things that VE is also on him about (though the difference may be I don;'t find him scummy necessarily)---his entrance seems way too weird, attention-grabby and most of all forced to be something scum would attempt, but then again I'm not a big fan of the content nor his seemingly baseless townread of me. Is there anything else anyone wants before I'm off to bed? I won't be around for much of tomorrow but I will return in the evening. On January 23 2014 04:41 WaveofShadow wrote: And for the record I probably am probably scummier on inactive Foolishness than inactive sandroba. Could be bias because I have precedent in PYP for sandroba in terms of an early game lurk then blasting onto the scene, but as was mentioend before (I forget by who atm?) sandroba was actively engaging the thread when he was around, whereas Foolishness basically hasn't talked to anyone, he just threw stuff and fucked off multiple times. he has a crapton of these kind of posts in his filter were he describes something he considers weird but backs up and undermines himself saying he's not sure about it at all. Townies try to convince people. Townies usually think they're right in the first place and yes townies get cold feet sometimes but if that happens they try to not bring it in the thread to avoid paranoia and because they're trying to CONVINCE other people. Doesn't look like a townie to me. He wasn't around at deadline either, no posting. There's a certain mafia agenda to be found there.
Seems l pretty convenient to not be around at deadline if you're mafia. The same (the very last part) can be said about VE and it's my main point about him because he's even worse in that regard as he was around for CERTAIN, he posted just before the switch happened and just didn't bother to post or do anything. The above however and the fact that hapa died is more than enough to prioritize WoS over VE today. | ||
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On January 25 2014 03:26 WaveofShadow wrote: So once again, you think I'm scum because I'm not confident in my reads. Whatever I can accept that to some degree but it still pisses me off that I essentially have to lie to the thread on my D1 if I don't have a strong read to show people I'm town. That isn't right. And as for the point about me not being here for lynch? Marv, if you would be so kind, what happened the last time people tried to get me lynched for not being around? Have I ever ONCE lied about not being around when i could be? This in particular REALLY fucking gets my goat because it's like it's the best you can do and it's blatantly false, and I have no way to effectively prove it. Are you purposefully trying to antagonize me with your case? I am very well aware of the fact that there's no point for you to prove it and neither can I prove it. I'm pointing it out because I still see mafia agenda in it and like I said VE did the same, not sure about Kita, haven't read him just yet but could be he did it as well. I'm saying I see reasoning for mafia to be doing that and while not being sure how it went down everything else makes the thing tipp in your direction, instead of VE. And no I'm not trying to make you mad, you should know that after last game I'm certainly not going to try to make anyone mad. Should I ignore it though? | ||
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On January 25 2014 03:37 gonzaw wrote: lol Wave's play this game has been anything but unmotivated. Anyways, could lynch Toad today I guess. But VE isn't doing shit. I'm talking about the first post and not his play in general. People don't screw up in every post they do. | ||
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On January 25 2014 03:42 gonzaw wrote: But then your case doesn't hold any water. In fact, if he's been motivated this whole game, and he said "I'm relieved to be town, if I was scum I'd be terrified", then who gives a shit if his 1st post is unmotivated, if the other 500 are? If he said that, but he played like VE (not doing much, then ragequitting, etc), it'd be a GREAT contradiction, where he said that stuff to gain town cred but contradicted it and outted himself as scum. Yet it is consistent with his play http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=72#1434 This entire case of yours sucks Toad. Nitpicking little shit (seriously you think he's scum because of the "no reason to vote sandro yet" thing?), bla bla ##Unvote ##Vote: Toad VE, your turn. I'm not voting you anymore, what are you going to do? you didn't even read it. IT had nothing to do with him being unmotivated but with him faking. He SOUNDED unmotivated in that one specific post, his entrance post when he should not have. He should have sounded delighted to be town, like he said. What he said and how he said it didn't add up. I'm not making a case on him being unmotivated, I'm making a case about how he's not making sense in the way he's talking and constantly has posts that read like a farce, like the two big posts about VE, like the opening posts. What he posts and how he reacts are completly off in those posts. | ||
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On January 25 2014 03:47 gonzaw wrote: Sorry, don't see how saying "Welp" says anything about his psychological state at the time. That post is not unmotivated either. how is Welp, gonna go with my usual opener. not unmotivated. That's the most whatever-post I've ever read. If he actually is happy to have rolled town he would have posted something different, probably even something stupid just to express that, instead he just goes with his "usual" opening without anything at all. He's either lying about being happy to have rolled town, which I don't see a reason for either alignment to lie about. Or this post doesn't add up with what he's saying. | ||
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On January 25 2014 03:50 WaveofShadow wrote: Just ignore the rest of my filter though, k? So ridiculous. There is nothing in your case against me that brings up anything legitimate in any way. you're co-hosting SMB. Remember any posts I did in that game when accusing people? That's how I work. I go after phrasing that seems off and you'd know that after I pushed 2 or 3 people in there for odd phrasing. | ||
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On January 25 2014 04:12 gonzaw wrote: Toad, what do you think about Foolishness' attitude towards you and your predecessor? I.e instantly finding Holy scummy (because of my case), but never doing anything else about it (other than fleetingly mention him a few times), to him being his 2nd scum read after Prome, to him not mentioning him nor you AT ALL after he had a 100% change of heart on Prome? No idea, I haven't read a single post from Holyflare so no idea if his accusations on my predecessor as you coined it so nicely make sense, btw also something WoS mentioned about me how I kept the reads from Holy... I didn't even know that lol I did ignore it in general as I was seeing the same thing from foolishness about Sandro and it was so extreme that I just thought it has to be an exaggeration until austin pointed out that is indeed weird. He has been on Sandro for a while, called him mafia and suddendly started calling the lynch bad and wasn't willing to vote him. Haven't put too much thought into it. I had to catch up, I had to reread a bunch and as stupid as this situation may be I just can't catch up, reread and at the same time put the same amount of time into reading yet other filters as you guys are doing right now. I have to make this work somehow and I start out with what's #1 on my priority list. Just saying because you still don't seem to understand the situation I'm in. Yes a bunch of stuff I'm going to say will be less in detail than stuff you do and I don't have the time to do proper research like you guys. That's to be expected and there's nothing I can do about that. Yes I'm slightly angry about the fact that you've basicly called me out about not reading carefully enough... Yeah I'm explaining it from the Sandro <-> Foolish perspective but it seems to be the same thing you're getting at? Because like I said I haven't read Holy's posts. | ||
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On January 25 2014 04:23 VisceraEyes wrote: Like, and he was last on the wagon - whether it was a minute or 10 minutes, he voted last on the wagon and was NOT the hammer vote on sandroba. the thing is, if foolishness is mafia that explains why he didn't vote Sandro despite being a very shady explanation. If Sandro and Foolish are mafia together Foolish has nothing to lose, it's either him or Sandro to get lynched, might as well just do nothing and hope that in the confusion of voteswitches Prome (assuming he's town) gets into a more favoreable position to be lynched. If Prom however is mafia as well, so saying it's Sand - Foolish - Prom, that unwillingness from Foolish to vote Sand makes no sense whatsoever. He has nothing to get out of not voting Sand except for a 1-1 trade with Sand which doesn't change a thing for him. Voting Sand however gives him the chance to get some towncred out of it and he WAS around, he could have certaintly voted Sand. It just doesn't make sense if Prom and Foolish are both mafia. | ||
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On January 25 2014 04:45 kitaman27 wrote: I cannot think of a scenario where Foolishness would have not moved his vote if he needed to for survival. I think he would have done so regardless of his own alignment and regardless of the alignment of any other player, he just didn't need to since the votes where there. yes certainly. But he could have done earlie to make the switch look more like it's going to happen. What I'm saying is that if he's mafia there might be a reason to wait with that, to have some votes on foolish, some on Sandro and at the same time get Prom closer to majority because votes are splitting up. Worst case scenario: Nothing changes numberwise, 1 out of Foolish or sand gets lynched Best case scenario: Prom somehow ends up being lynched. The 2nd case however has no best-case scenario, or rather it's identical with the worst case scenario from a lynch's point of view, so might as well go for some towncred and put the vote on Sandro. But yes I agree, I don't see foolishness not changing votes for survival reasons as either alignment either, but that wasn't the question here. The question was why Sand-Prom-Foolishness makes no sense. | ||
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On January 25 2014 06:43 marvellosity wrote: How is this possible if you've read the game? ... would have taken more time to read them and I don't see a reason to do so. Whenever I saw his name I skipped the post and when someone quoted him I read the quoted part but I didn't really pay attention to it and couldn't remember a single thing he said by now. Like I said, it's a shitty situation I'm in and I have to prioritize things to get this going. Reading his filter isn't even on the list of things I intend to do. | ||
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So why would I want to spent some hours to read that as well instead of getting through the thread as fast as possible or reading up on other things that are actually interesting, like the voteswitch period or people I consider to be scummy. | ||
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On January 25 2014 07:02 marvellosity wrote: it's nothing to do with reading his filter, it's the totally unnatural idea that you're reading a game and for some totally bizarre reason you decide to ignore one user's posts despite the fact that the rest of the game is reading and responding to those posts, so you have no contextual idea of what you're reading from anyone else regarding that user. That's really what you did? yeah? What point would there be in having contextual knowledge about a player that's not in the game anymore, a player who used to have my spot in this game. Not like I'm going to explain anything he posted and say "that's totally townie" or "that's totally mafia" because even if I did read his posts, despite replacing in for him, we don't share memories or a brain in general. Also you guys (mostly gonzaw) told me to read as quickly as possible. It was a corner to cut. | ||
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On January 25 2014 07:15 marvellosity wrote: Does anyone else find that Toad not reading holy's posts sketchy, or am i making something out of nothing? see this: so he agrees in principal, but you seem to have a problem with the fact that I didn't go back and read his filter and like I said, I still had 10 or so pages left inbetween to read, I still had to reread the voting section, I still had to watch through WoS filter and that's what I've done so far. Like I said, reading Holy's filter isn't even on the list of things I want to do, I'm going through foolish's filter right now and probably will take another look at prior to deadline afterwards. I just don't get why you think it's that strange that if I left them out in the first place it's so weird that I haven't read his filter when obviously other filters are way more important | ||
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On January 25 2014 07:27 VisceraEyes wrote: But the principal is the same marv - you're telling me that a townToad who knows he's town and knows that Holyflare is town could NOT read the thread and anytime he sees a Holyflare post say "Welp no scum here, moving on" and just not read the post? Are we talking about the same Toad? how is it that this apparently ISN'T considered to be the natural thing to do | ||
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On January 25 2014 04:12 gonzaw wrote: Toad, what do you think about Foolishness' attitude towards you and your predecessor? I.e instantly finding Holy scummy (because of my case), but never doing anything else about it (other than fleetingly mention him a few times), to him being his 2nd scum read after Prome, to him not mentioning him nor you AT ALL after he had a 100% change of heart on Prome? I think it makes him look bad to just drop it out of nowhere, without any kind of explanation and to do an almost 180. Just like I said when I answered it from the Sandroba point of view and if what you pointed out in your bigger post is true it's literally the same thing. Want me to repeat it? That's the reason I'm in his filter right now. He did mention BOTH Holy (aka me) and Sandro early, really early and he has been going on about it + Show Spoiler [example] + On January 23 2014 06:59 Foolishness wrote: Yes Yes As I said, my posts always accomplish something (besides the one I posted before this cause you guys frustrate me to no end). You want to run wild theories that's fine by me, but I'm pretty sure you find less mafia than I do. Yes, HolyFlare lynch is good. I find that post to be the prime example of this to be honest. So he thinks Sandro is mafia and very clearly states so, but doesn't vote him, he thinks marv is mafia, he thinks Holy is mafia and I guess he was on prome around that time already? That just doesn't make sense to me and yeah like you said he completly and utterly dropped both Holy and Sandro later on like nothing happened. Marv and Prom are understandable because they voted Sand but the Sand and Holy drops are weird. | ||
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On January 25 2014 07:51 marvellosity wrote: I'm gonna do to you what VE did to me Toad can't straight up lie? Ha! there's no way I would have read this game at all as mafia. I'm the laziest guy around, I can hardly push myself into reading the game when being town and when I don't have to because I consider myself confirmed through role (blues) I don't do so as town either lol Now you're probably going to claim "waitwaitwait, what about that failgame, you were mafia in there and you read it". Yes but I replaced in thinking I'm town and was given a 24hour advance warning before replacing for someone and therefore caught up with the game before actually replacing in. In this case it's literally been "want to replace? - eeehm, sure why not" and bam I'm in this game. | ||
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On January 25 2014 10:15 Foolishness wrote: That's not a silly question. I believe it is you and Toad. Though I go back and forth on whether it's Toad or VE. Kitaman went after sandroba a lot on day 1. He called him out early, voted on him (twice) and pushed his case. I don't see him doing that to his own scumbuddy (moreso since sandroba was inactive so his case just kept looking better over time). Back and is it just me or is this super weird? So you have WoS as your undisputed #1 and either VE or me as the #2 slot. I'm the guy who's voting WoS right now and you place me on the #2 slot instead of VE? What's my plan here as mafia if you're so certain about WoS, VE and me that you don't even feel need the need to talk about us at all but rather talk about those 4 scenarios and how what makes sense with you and prom together? How come noone has an issue with this? | ||
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Like I said to top it off the entire post + Show Spoiler + On January 25 2014 09:35 Foolishness wrote: This is from a while ago, but his posts I saw when I made that post were: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=20#381 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=21#408 And I thought these were fine at the time. A lot of you seem to think that I'm doing things 12 hours after they happened when in reality it's been a lot closer. I saw sandroba and austin both come to the thread and start posting, and I didn't post long after that (a few hours at most). As I said, my mindset was, "well they've been kinda afk so far, but as long as they keep posting I don't have an overwhelming reason to suspect them". Look at my list where I put austin and sandroba in the same category; this is exactly why. Gonzaw kinda brought this up here but let's go through these scenarios cause it's important. Scenario 1 Foolishness is mafia Promethelax is mafia Yes, after seeing that my case on WoS during day 1 didn't have as much merit as I thought at the time, I immediately decided to bus my own teammate. Not only that but I was also under scrutiny in the thread, why would I bring attention to another mafia member when I can push a case on someone else (HolyFlare? Marv maybe?). Better for me to just keep pushing on WoS or pick a new target, no sense is putting two mafia members under scrutiny on day 1. Speaking of HolyFlare, this is off topic from my current explanation but when I went back later on and reread his posts I thought he might be town. I don't even remember why but that's what I thought. I don't like reading into people getting replaced out so I focused my attention elsewhere. If HolyFlare is town I expect Toad to be able to prove it to us sooner and not later. And by sooner I mean end of night 2 at the absolute latest. Secnario 2 Foolishness is Mafia Promethelax is town This is the only scenario out of the three that the town should be worried about as I didn't want to switch to sandroba and even said so straight up (the reason I didn't want to was because I saw Marv move his vote and I was really sketchy about him at the time. I didn't like what I was seeing last minute and I got super scared it was just town derp switching onto another town). But as I pointed out in my earlier posts what is the mafia doing the entirety of day 1 when I'm accumulating votes? As gonzaw pointed out this would only make sense if the entire mafia team (but myself) is afk (so like, HolyFlare also mafia). Furthermore, if I'm mafia and Promethelax is town, then wtf is up with sandroba's vote 30 minutes before the deadline? His post wasn't a mafia post trying to save his buddy, that was a mafia pushing what he perceived to be a safe lynch to make his team look pretty for the future days after I flip town or Promethelax flips town. I think it is even more apparent through the entirety of day 1 as a whole. Where is my mafia team to save me? Are they just afk (we all know mafia games on TL are never that easy)? The only one trying to deflect votes off of me was me. Sure, kitaman and austin both said I was town, but there was never a hard push. It seemed like their attitude was, "yeah Foolishness is town I'm sure, but I got nothing better to propose". Kitaman's push on Promethelax was mediocre at best (in terms of aggressiveness, not content). I was 100% on my own for all of day 1. Scenario 3 Foolishness is Town Promethelax is mafia Why the hell did sandroba push onto Promethelax when he could have easily just been like, "yo guys I've caught Foolishness as mafia in three separate games on day 1/2, this is a free town lynch"? Doesn't make sense. Secnario 4 Foolishness is Town Promethelax is Town I brought this up before, but go back and read sandroba's case on Promethelax. After sandroba's vote both Promethelax and I had 3 votes apiece (if I'm not mistaken here). Mafia were very very very happy with the votes at this time. Town Foolishness is under scrutiny and about to get lynched, and second in line is another town who Foolishness (apparently well-known scumhunter) is 100% convinced is mafia. Wow find me a happier mafia team on day 1 in a normal or all-vanilla game. Sandroba was not throwing his vote down to save someone or push for any lynch. Mafia were happy with who was getting lynched that day and there was no need to do anything about it. THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH IS VERY IMPORTANT Look at this from sandroba's point of view in this scenario. The only people with votes are two townies. He drops his vote on Promethelax with the following mindset. "Let's say Foolishness gets lynched. Sweet, I just push on Promethelax the following day and tell the town, 'yeah guys you fucked that up, Foolishness is best scum-hunter NA we gotta lynch Promethelax now'. Let's say Promethelax gets lynched. Sweet, I just admit my mistake and push Foolishness the following day and tell the town, 'yeah damn sorry about that read, this guy Foolishness is definitely mafia and 100% misled the town into a bad lynch. Many people said that lynch was bad from the beginning we should never have listened to Foolishness'". No matter who got lynched sandroba was in a great position, that is until he himself got lynched instead. Sandroba's vote was not a push to get the town to do something. No, it was lazily cast knowing that both suspects were town and he could ride it through the next day. THIS SHOWS THAT PROMETHELAX IS TOWN Look at all four above scenarios. Scenario 3 makes the least amount of sense cause then sandroba's vote is an awful mistake. Scenario 1 doesn't make sense cause that means I bussed my own teammate (when I could have easily gone after WoS from the start or anyone else) and oh btw also means Promethelax bussed sandroba last minute (keep in mind him and Hapa voted 1 minute apart so in essence they both hammered that vote). The remaining two scenarios both have Promethelax as town. Because he is. Regardless of what you think of me as well, though the above and my earlier posts should prove my innocence as well. If you guys wanna spend 9 hours going down the conspiracy theory hole then cool story bro. Or you can just look at the facts and deduce the following: Town wins if WaveOfShadow, VisceraEyes, Kitaman, and Toad all die. Also my time is very limited today and tomorrow but I will try to be here when I can. What the fuck is that. | ||
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On January 24 2014 11:26 Foolishness wrote: I brought this up in my earlier post as well. The options are limited and are not congruent with the rest of the thread. WoS or VE today. ##Vote: WaveOfShadow into -> a little explanation, take note that it's explanation about WoS and VE -> On January 25 2014 10:49 Foolishness wrote: Me explaining why you are mafia and should be lynched: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=53#1056 What I said about VE on day 1 still applies: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=23#447 But as I said I would be fine lynching either of you. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=63#1246 Now that I gave you indisputable evidence that Promethelax is town (regardless of what you think I am) who is your mafia team? As a side note, for the list of reasons I want to lynch you we can also add "diverting the town with strange conspiracy theories about what happened on the day 1 lynch". into -> On January 25 2014 10:15 Foolishness wrote: That's not a silly question. I believe it is you [note: you=WoS] and Toad. Though I go back and forth on whether it's Toad or VE. Kitaman went after sandroba a lot on day 1. He called him out early, voted on him (twice) and pushed his case. I don't see him doing that to his own scumbuddy (moreso since sandroba was inactive so his case just kept looking better over time). aka, thought it's WoS and VE from the start of d2, when asked explains why WoS and VE into "yep it's totally WoS and the guy who's voting WoS. without any kind of explanation ##unvote ##vote Foolishness | ||
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On January 26 2014 02:38 gonzaw wrote: Toad, do you still believe your case against WoS? Does this change your mind about WoS or are you just more focused on Foo, while you still think WoS is scum? I still think his posting style doesn't reflect the way he should be posting and I still feel that he's putting on a show. That being said there's no way for me to not rethink my case with the criticism I got on it from you guys. He's still yellow in my chart if that answers your question but I decided to ignore him for now and make a fresh start on him tomorrow. He doesn't really fit with foolish as well and yeah I feel stronger about him | ||
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He doesn't even feel the need to explain his mafiareads and instead writes wall of texts about his relationship with prome. Like I said, I don't mind that WoS vote one bit but do you really think he's a better lynch than foolishness? | ||
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On January 26 2014 03:22 VisceraEyes wrote: No, but I think he's more likely to actually get lynched. well here's a tip, put your vote on foolishness and he's more likely to get lynched. It helps | ||
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On January 26 2014 03:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Toad you think it's Wave and Foolish, and you don't want Foolish to get cred for a Wave lynch is that what I'm seeing here? BEcause you were just voting for Wave and Foolish is also voting for Wave. I thought it's Wave for sure and not sure on the other one. I don't care about Foolishness getting cred for whatever if it lynches mafia right now. Not so sure about Wave anymore but pretty sure on Foolishness. The fact that Foolishness is voting WoS and telling people that it's WoS + me at the same time is what's making it really weird for me right now and there's bound to be some kind of mistake there. I think it's much less likely to be a mistake on my Foolishness is mafia assumption | ||
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How about we all hold hands, give VE this cycle to cool down, lynch Foolishness and see what VE does the next day. He seems to cool down when you talk to him in a rational way: On January 25 2014 04:41 VisceraEyes wrote: This makes sense to me. Thank you Toad. Doesn't sound pissed to me. If he keeps on posting like that while still not doing anything we lynch him but let's get him to that state first instead of taking the coinflip on him. I could literally see him do this as town and mafia and we'll get a better picture of this soon enough. No need to rush this, VE isn't running away. | ||
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On January 26 2014 03:55 marvellosity wrote: how about we lynch you instead Toad? doesn't sound like a good idea to me. | ||
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On January 26 2014 04:29 WaveofShadow wrote: It'd be pretty ballsy (if I'm right about you) as scum to be the only one. Hapa's suspicion is a stronger point if anything and I'll grant you that, but surprisingly nobody brought it up. And his case on me was vastly different than anyone else's I believe---I think it actually wasn't terrible. So, is Toad's voteswitch authentic or is he trying to jump off a losing train early and trying to gain some towncred on a bus? On January 24 2014 08:13 Toadesstern wrote: I actually disagree. Quick check through his filter, ignoring his last post because it was before deadline, will show up WoS a lot more than anyone else, especially if you compare it to VE who would be the one to show up more in Gonzaw's filter. So as I'm still going with the WoS and VE both look really bad, especially given that they both equally failed to do anything d1 deadline (clicky! here to see why that's an issue I'd lean on WoS even more now. ##vote WoS you're welcome. Also wtf is that kind of a question. I'm getting cold feet here as I'm seeing you and VE on the same guy I want lynched and you have the balls to call Foolishness 100% mafia and say it's either a bus from me or a townie being right? Sure I think Foolishness is the best lynch but I wouldn't have the balls to call it that 100% certain oO Also when I voted foolish it was 2-2-2 in votes. I might be called the reason you're "wagon" is losing steam, again you're welcome | ||
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On January 26 2014 04:38 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah I was watching you subtly try to take credit for that. Horseshit, good sir. If there's any reason I'm not getting lynched today it's through my own damn merit. This is another one of those cases Toad where I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't. If I'm not 100% confident people call me wishy washy, and now that I am you find it fishy. Fuck 'wishy-washy,' I'm never using it as a strict tell ever again. okay here's the thing. I said I'm ignoring you for today because I got that people disagree with what I said about you and I'm rethinking the whole thing. You just implied that I was trying to get off a losing wagon which was obviously horseshit because it wasn't a losing wagon until I unvoted. Gonzaw specifically said something along the lines of "well looks like Foolish or VE day today" after I voted Foolishness if I recall correctly. I'm not taking credit for anything, I'm rubbing it under your nose because that comment of yours annoyed me. So sorry for rubbing it under your nose but I can't stand it if you're flinging shit at me that's completly made up. See, I'm taking my time to rethink you, I'm actually doing that because I know how badly tunneling can end up and especially you should know so as well. So could you please take a bit of that same medicine and just stop the flinging shit for no reason-part? | ||
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On January 26 2014 04:52 WaveofShadow wrote: It's not no reason, you're attempting to take credit for something I don't believe deserves it. I wasn't getting lynched once I showed up last night and started talking, despite where the votes were/are. I do appreciate you untunneling however, though I'm not really sure you had a choice given your case was pretty torn up. I'm sorry my comment annoys you but it's the way I am attempting to think about the game right now, especially because I am worried about Foolishness's inevitable return pre-lynch, which i will likely not be here for. Toad let's just talk. If Foolishness comes back and posts a whole bunch, do you think he is still likely to be lynched? yes | ||
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On January 26 2014 05:00 gonzaw wrote: Toad, why are you refusing to talk about VE? He's the hotspot in the thread at the moment, yet you are the only one going on a tangent with WoS about Foo or whatever and not discussing him at all. I've said that I'd like to see if this continues and judge him the next day. I know ongoing game... but check out SMB mini mafia d2 lynch and my post directly before that. That gives you a good idea. Shouldn't be a problem to mention this as I've already flipped. That'll maybe take you 60 seconds | ||
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On January 26 2014 05:10 WaveofShadow wrote: You think VE is doing something similar to what you did in that game? no, he certainly doesn't have the balls to just die for town's sake like I did and the situation's different as well. That's why I said I want to see what he's doing from now on. People being mad can do all kind of crazy shit. He said he's not mad anymore but apathetic. If this continues I'm more than willing to lynch him but I want to see if this changes with a sack of sleep. | ||
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On January 26 2014 05:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Actually Toad's reasoning for suspecting Foolishness kinda comes out of nowhere doesn't it? Like when I read Foolish's post, it seemed like VE or WoS for today's lynch, then later on he was calling out WoS AND Toad as the final scums. The first posts didn't seem like he thought both VE and WoS are scum, and that's what Toad is arguing (I think), but that's not how I read it. Toad what is the basis of your Foolish suspicion? Before the sequence of posts that led to this post, you were townie on Foolish right? It all adding up. Mafiaread on Holy suddenly disappears without anything. Mafiaread on Sandro disappears without anything, even suddenly calling it a bad lynch when he's about to be lynched instead. Mafiaread on WoS+me makes no sense whatsoever Keeps focusing on explaining this Foolishness+prom situation instead of just posting and explaining any of his mafiareads or why they suddenly dropped away. | ||
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On January 26 2014 05:22 VisceraEyes wrote: Isn't that what him explaining the Foolishness/Prom situation is? Explaining why his mafiareads have changed? go ahead and point at where he is: On January 25 2014 09:35 Foolishness wrote: This is from a while ago, but his posts I saw when I made that post were: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=20#381 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=21#408 And I thought these were fine at the time. A lot of you seem to think that I'm doing things 12 hours after they happened when in reality it's been a lot closer. I saw sandroba and austin both come to the thread and start posting, and I didn't post long after that (a few hours at most). As I said, my mindset was, "well they've been kinda afk so far, but as long as they keep posting I don't have an overwhelming reason to suspect them". Look at my list where I put austin and sandroba in the same category; this is exactly why. Gonzaw kinda brought this up here but let's go through these scenarios cause it's important. Scenario 1 Foolishness is mafia Promethelax is mafia Yes, after seeing that my case on WoS during day 1 didn't have as much merit as I thought at the time, I immediately decided to bus my own teammate. Not only that but I was also under scrutiny in the thread, why would I bring attention to another mafia member when I can push a case on someone else (HolyFlare? Marv maybe?). Better for me to just keep pushing on WoS or pick a new target, no sense is putting two mafia members under scrutiny on day 1. Speaking of HolyFlare, this is off topic from my current explanation but when I went back later on and reread his posts I thought he might be town. I don't even remember why but that's what I thought. I don't like reading into people getting replaced out so I focused my attention elsewhere. If HolyFlare is town I expect Toad to be able to prove it to us sooner and not later. And by sooner I mean end of night 2 at the absolute latest. Secnario 2 Foolishness is Mafia Promethelax is town This is the only scenario out of the three that the town should be worried about as I didn't want to switch to sandroba and even said so straight up (the reason I didn't want to was because I saw Marv move his vote and I was really sketchy about him at the time. I didn't like what I was seeing last minute and I got super scared it was just town derp switching onto another town). But as I pointed out in my earlier posts what is the mafia doing the entirety of day 1 when I'm accumulating votes? As gonzaw pointed out this would only make sense if the entire mafia team (but myself) is afk (so like, HolyFlare also mafia). Furthermore, if I'm mafia and Promethelax is town, then wtf is up with sandroba's vote 30 minutes before the deadline? His post wasn't a mafia post trying to save his buddy, that was a mafia pushing what he perceived to be a safe lynch to make his team look pretty for the future days after I flip town or Promethelax flips town. I think it is even more apparent through the entirety of day 1 as a whole. Where is my mafia team to save me? Are they just afk (we all know mafia games on TL are never that easy)? The only one trying to deflect votes off of me was me. Sure, kitaman and austin both said I was town, but there was never a hard push. It seemed like their attitude was, "yeah Foolishness is town I'm sure, but I got nothing better to propose". Kitaman's push on Promethelax was mediocre at best (in terms of aggressiveness, not content). I was 100% on my own for all of day 1. Scenario 3 Foolishness is Town Promethelax is mafia Why the hell did sandroba push onto Promethelax when he could have easily just been like, "yo guys I've caught Foolishness as mafia in three separate games on day 1/2, this is a free town lynch"? Doesn't make sense. Secnario 4 Foolishness is Town Promethelax is Town I brought this up before, but go back and read sandroba's case on Promethelax. After sandroba's vote both Promethelax and I had 3 votes apiece (if I'm not mistaken here). Mafia were very very very happy with the votes at this time. Town Foolishness is under scrutiny and about to get lynched, and second in line is another town who Foolishness (apparently well-known scumhunter) is 100% convinced is mafia. Wow find me a happier mafia team on day 1 in a normal or all-vanilla game. Sandroba was not throwing his vote down to save someone or push for any lynch. Mafia were happy with who was getting lynched that day and there was no need to do anything about it. THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH IS VERY IMPORTANT Look at this from sandroba's point of view in this scenario. The only people with votes are two townies. He drops his vote on Promethelax with the following mindset. "Let's say Foolishness gets lynched. Sweet, I just push on Promethelax the following day and tell the town, 'yeah guys you fucked that up, Foolishness is best scum-hunter NA we gotta lynch Promethelax now'. Let's say Promethelax gets lynched. Sweet, I just admit my mistake and push Foolishness the following day and tell the town, 'yeah damn sorry about that read, this guy Foolishness is definitely mafia and 100% misled the town into a bad lynch. Many people said that lynch was bad from the beginning we should never have listened to Foolishness'". No matter who got lynched sandroba was in a great position, that is until he himself got lynched instead. Sandroba's vote was not a push to get the town to do something. No, it was lazily cast knowing that both suspects were town and he could ride it through the next day. THIS SHOWS THAT PROMETHELAX IS TOWN Look at all four above scenarios. Scenario 3 makes the least amount of sense cause then sandroba's vote is an awful mistake. Scenario 1 doesn't make sense cause that means I bussed my own teammate (when I could have easily gone after WoS from the start or anyone else) and oh btw also means Promethelax bussed sandroba last minute (keep in mind him and Hapa voted 1 minute apart so in essence they both hammered that vote). The remaining two scenarios both have Promethelax as town. Because he is. Regardless of what you think of me as well, though the above and my earlier posts should prove my innocence as well. If you guys wanna spend 9 hours going down the conspiracy theory hole then cool story bro. Or you can just look at the facts and deduce the following: Town wins if WaveOfShadow, VisceraEyes, Kitaman, and Toad all die. Also my time is very limited today and tomorrow but I will try to be here when I can. and no I'm not counting prom. The entire thing focuses on nothing but prom who wasn't even up for discussion at that point and everything there is is that almost final line Town wins if WaveOfShadow, VisceraEyes, Kitaman, and Toad all die. with nothing else to it | ||
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That would be an explanation if his suspects hadn't completly changed. So how did I end up together with WoS as his mainsuspects? And again, when asked for reasoning he quoted stuff about you and WoS | ||
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On January 26 2014 05:53 gonzaw wrote: One way I think about it is this: By doing so, the scum in the "unconfirmed" blend in pretty well. If ALL the "unconfirmed" vote for Foo once the day ends...how do you distinguish between them? They all voted the same guy for the same reasons basically, you can't really differentiate them that much. This is independent on whether Foo is scum or not. If Foo is scum, then 3 out of those 4 is town, and 1 is scum. The scum is jumping on the bus on Foo. But why? This makes it very likely Foo gets lynched, yet by sheeping the "confirmed", he can easily get VE lynched...if VE is not scum. Would he be scared, because he "jumps out" of all the other unconfirmed by being the only "unconfirmed" on VE? Then if VE flips town he'd be put under scrutiny? But bussing Foo is basically losing the game right now, isn't it? Wouldn't he take the chance? Or maybe he thinks Foo is still not getting lynched today and is bussing him anyways? Of course, a very interesting scenario is both VE and Foo being scum. Wave, Toad, kita, VE. You guys are the ones doing this. What do you think of this phenomenon? I've mentioned that I got cold feet right now, didn't I? It's for a reason... Foo+VE seems to be the most logical explanation right now simply because VE does whatever. If that's not the case then I'd say mafia has no long term plan and tries to hang on by a day by day basis and watch what can be done. So pretty much hoping for paranoia after a while and hope to somehow get people to lynch into one of the other 4 people. | ||
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On January 26 2014 06:03 gonzaw wrote: So Toad, you are happy with any of VE or Foo getting lynched today then? I'd really like your thoughts on VE I haven't looked into VE yet and like I said, I want to see how he changes tomorrow. But VE makes sense given the situation we're in assuming my read on Foo is right. I'd much rather lynch Foo before lynching into VE because of nothing but "because he'd make sense together with Foo" if Foo hasn't even flipped yet... | ||
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Start quoting what got you angry. I don't care what it is, start doing so. | ||
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Gonzaw, come over to the sunny side, we still have cookies. | ||
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On January 26 2014 06:36 gonzaw wrote: Who's the other scum then Toad? kita, WoS, or a "confirmed"? in the case you quoted? Could be WoS or Kita. First assumption would be kita because he's the guy who just unvoted and voted VE but could as well be mafia banking on one guy hopping over. | ||
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Foolish, how about you explain how WoS + me being mafia makes any sense whatsoever when you've been saying that it's probably VE+WoS all the time | ||
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On January 26 2014 07:32 gonzaw wrote: Toad, what do you think of Foo's last posts? Me and kita are kind of on the fence with this lynch, and have enough votes to swing the lynch to either VE or Foolishness. You think VE is town then? Will you try to convince us to lynch Foo, or will you do nothing until deadline waiting for your townread to get lynched? I don't have a townread on VE, if I had one I'd be kicking and screaming. I didn't come to a conclusion on him because the same happened to me like 4 days ago and I happened to be town in that game which is giving me shivers. I'm kind of busy right now and only f5'in inbetween. I've told you guys to get on Foo, I told you multiple times so far and it's been ignored. I don't have the time to make a case right now. I DO think Foolishness is the way better lynch though and I DO think that reading VE tomorrow will be easier than today. That should already be enough if you seem to have the same problems I have with the recent stuff he has posted. Again, there's cookies over here so please come over | ||
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On January 26 2014 07:40 Foolishness wrote: [... snipped out for thread's sake...] only talking about the part that answered me. Than what about this: On January 25 2014 10:15 Foolishness wrote: That's not a silly question. I believe it is you [note: you=WoS] and Toad. Though I go back and forth on whether it's Toad or VE. Kitaman went after sandroba a lot on day 1. He called him out early, voted on him (twice) and pushed his case. I don't see him doing that to his own scumbuddy (moreso since sandroba was inactive so his case just kept looking better over time). I might add that I've been voting WoS ever since the start of D2, you seem to be pretty certain on WoS, you see me voting WoS as well, you're torn between VE and me and you think I'm the better candidate for the 2nd mafia seat than VE becaaaaause? | ||
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On January 26 2014 07:46 Toadesstern wrote: only talking about the part that answered me. Than what about this: I might add that I've been voting WoS ever since the start of D2, you seem to be pretty certain on WoS, you see me voting WoS as well, you're torn between VE and me and you think I'm the better candidate for the 2nd mafia seat than VE becaaaaause? Add to that, that when you answered that question and showed explanation you showed explanation on WoS + VE when VE is the guy that dropped out of your list and was replaced with me. Shouldn't you have at least some kind of explanation for why I got into that #2 position in favor of VE when you make such a bold statement as to say that team mafia is WoS and me bussing each other while hoping that whoever survives skates through until lylo? | ||
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On January 26 2014 07:52 gonzaw wrote: Hmmm.... Well.......maybe we should keep the lynch on VE. Toad, I don't get it: VE basically gave up a long time ago, and I doubt he'll "pick up" and start putting effort. Why would you think reading VE will get any easier? What if he keeps doing nothing and saying he's apathetic and doing the stuff he did this D2? Will you say "Let's keep him around till D4, SURELY it'll be easier to read him by then"? If he continues to be emotional, yes lynch him. If he pulls himself together we can watch what he does d3. Speaking from my experience, I just needed a sack of sleep to cool down, that's why. | ||
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On January 26 2014 08:09 gonzaw wrote: Foo, right now these are your "scum suspects": Toad/kita/WOS. Choose the scum between them based on this lynch. Now can I answer this? Can I answer this? I got a pie-chart: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7sroMdW.png) I gave in to being a dick... | ||
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On January 26 2014 08:29 gonzaw wrote: It is good information that you are scum in that chart? So...you confess being scum? Since apparently it's "good information" He's going to tell you that the chart is the reason he thinks it's WoS/Kita. WoS because he's still certain about him readwise, Kita because of d1+d2 combination and that he himself looks bad because he got back too late and couldn't catch up in time. I guess we should all reread Kitas filter tomorrow (as in, it's 00:40 am over here). There was no discussion about him whatsoever today. I got my sweet time, VE had his sweet time, Foolish had his sweet time and so did WoS but I don't actually remember anyone talking about Kita. The piechart is obviously a gross exaggeration. I didn't have a townread on VE at all, and WoS... well he did but I don't know if that makes it any better to come up with a townread on VE... but I do think it has some information to it that shouldn't be ignored. | ||
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On January 26 2014 08:50 gonzaw wrote: Anyways, apparently that "super bad case" from WoS about VE being town was right...... ...congratz Wave? @Foo: You think scum Wave was buddying up to VE there then? Your read of him changes nothing based on that fact? He defended VE ever since D1 (way WAY back), and he kept consistent with it. At points even he felt almost compelled to vote VE based on VE doing some shit, yet didn't. Also, please explain, in really attentive detail, what makes you go from having Holy as sure scum on D1, to having Toad as "very very likely town" right now. I mean, from your POV you have 3 people to be scum, and you leave Toad out of it. From what you've been posting I don't see anything to make me think you really think he's super duper town. So what is it? Care to point out some quotes, or something? @Toad: What do you think of Foo apparently buddying up to you now? I mean, he called you the most likely scum after VE, yet now he backed out of that apparently and thinks kita is scum with Wave. You "know" he's scum, so do you think he'd continuously buddy up to you to bus his teammate kita? He could have easily said "WoS/Toad" up there. That would be consistent with what he said last night, and from your POV it would be on 2 townies. That'd be good for a kita+Foo scumteam right? On January 26 2014 08:53 gonzaw wrote: Anyways, I kind of feel good about kita, regarding the deadline activities. He was here all throughout before deadline, poking Foo, even trying to figure out with me if we should lynch either VE or Foo. I.e he was engaged trying to figure out the lynch. Toad, if you think kita is scum, do you see him doing this? Specially if he attacks his scumbuddy Foo and the like? If you think Wave is scum, do you think he'd defend VE SO MUCH all over D1 and D2, yet bus his buddy Foolishness all D1 and all D2? I had this secondary post when Kita unvoted and it instantly popped into my mind: On January 26 2014 06:34 Toadesstern wrote: Well this might be another explanation to gonzaws question: Mafia was confident that foolishness isn't going to get lynched because VE would keep doing whatever and this all ended up being a minor gamble. Gonzaw, come over to the sunny side, we still have cookies. Yeah I think he could, mafia's bound to do go to extremes to even have a chance at this so might as well go a bit risky there. About Foo buddying me? I don't make anything if it yet. I said that I thought foolishness it townie while catching up because he had a bunch of posts that I simply agreed with and we both thought exactly the same way about things, it's his final conclusions that freak me out. So him having the same thoughts as I isn't really an issue here if he'd just for once get to the same conclusions as I do... It's always this sudden "yeah sandro mafia but he's a bad lynch" "yeah holy mafia but let's forget about this" "yeah VE looks really bad but let's get Toad back in this instead" "yeah I agree with Toad on VE but let's lynch VE nevertheless"... | ||
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So far all I'm seeing from you about WoS is about his activity, I go back to his posts, especially those about VE and they just don't make sense. You even pointed it out yourself. How is it that the activity of WoS alone is enough to make him town in your eyes? I just don't get it and you seem to be the only one thinking that way, so what gives? Anyways I'm off to my place by train and will check out Kita's filter when I'm home. It's probably going to be a decision between Kita and Foolish tomorrow, so I'll focus on those 2. | ||
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On January 27 2014 07:29 marvellosity wrote: hey austin, no hard feelings buddy. Jeez :p I would say, austin, that some of your last-man-standing type efforts have actually been some of the most unique things I've seen from TL mafia players. So while you may have a sprinkling of a point with your effort thingy, if you're extrapolating from yourself then I'm not sure that's a correct thing to do or expect ^^ I think the only person I've ever see post that many pages in one phase/cycle as mafia is rayn. gonzaw has brought it up as conspiracy theory a crapton, so might as well use it against other people than me: VE and me in LI | ||
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[23:53:37] <Elementaryschool> is tl down for anyone else [23:54:05] <Ferrose> works for me [23:54:22] <Elementaryschool> grrr [23:54:28] <Elementaryschool> i can get on everything but tl [23:54:41] <ecael> toad with similar problem earlier [23:54:44] <Elementaryschool> how was tsm vs coast eca [23:54:49] <Wreakhavoc> when will eca make his return [23:54:50] <Toad|> yes [23:54:54] <ecael> boring [23:54:55] <Toad|> TL down [23:55:00] * warara (~XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX) [23:55:08] <Elementaryschool> tl;dr tsmmmmmmmmmmm, eca? sorry TL has been pinging me out the entire day. I've got some posts in, not even sure if they got through but I'll leave it at this for today and try tomorrow. No idea what this is | ||
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On January 27 2014 20:40 marvellosity wrote: Hey Toad. Could you tell me how your attitude towards the same post morphed so remarkably? It literally went from "i don't see how mafia can post this" to "this is a prime example (of something scummy) and this doesn't make sense to me" On January 27 2014 20:55 marvellosity wrote: Toad what's your read on Wave? You seemed quite sure he was mafia one moment and then that kinda disappeared off into the ether when you started finding Fool pretty scummy. Now you're "looking into kita+fool because it's likely to be a decision between those 2 today" @ 1st quote First quote inside first quote was something that was right after I finished catching up or very shortly afterwards. I looked through those quickly, saw them and had the kind of "too scummy to be scummy" idea and therefore ignored it. Austin kept bringing it up so I looked into it again and I found more and more stuff like that that just added up, like when Gonzaw asked me, which seems to be the 2nd quote inside the first quote, asking about basicly the same thing just between Holy <-> Foolish and it stood out to me as something that made no sense. Now if you look at my case on foolish it's mostly about how he makes sense when he argues, really about whatever, but just suddenly goes full retard whenever he comes to a conclusion and I couldn't agree with anything he said once he got to some kind of conclusion and those things just really added up to a point that I don't think it's a coincidence anymore. So yeah, at first I only saw that one thing (foolishness calling Sandro mafia and calling Sandro a bad lynch some later) and took it as bad phrasing and his conviction of the prom lynch. The more I saw stuff like that the less I was willing to just take it as a coincicende so it obviously changed from a "whatever" to a "this guy just doesn't make any kind of sense". @ 2nd quote He's still up there. Let's use kita-combinatorics to explain this a bit faster because I'm in a rush: I don't think foolish + WoS makes a lot of sense. Agree? Therefore it's either WoS+Kita or Foolish+Kita for me. That's super simplified but that's about the reason why I'd rather talk about Kita+Foolish today than WoS. Kita because he's in both of these and my piechart and I'd say Foolish is certainly more likely to be mafia than WoS at this point. I still don't give a crap about what Gonzaw said about WoS though. Just like austin I'm pretty damn sure there were people who just said that WoS has to be town because of his filterlength which is bullshit and I still don't particularly like the posts he did. People get in here and say he contributed, go back and read his 2 posts about VE and prom. You yourself, even gonzaw, the guy who praised him as a saint, were shitting on those because they made no sense whatsoever and I could see him trying to get towncred from VE that way. It's no about wether people are right or wrong, it's about wether their way of comming to a conclusion makes sense and it didn't in WoS posts. Everyone seems to have forgotten the WoS <-> Prom thing altogether. I still don't like that either. But like I said, I'm somewhat in a hurry, won't be back for 2 hours or so. | ||
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On January 28 2014 01:22 marvellosity wrote: game is hard yo If Fool and Wave don't make sense to you as a team, than presumably by mutual exclusion one of them has to be town, but you're still suspicious of both by the looks of things. So which is it? And if kita is the common factor between both of them, why aren't you pushing kita as confirmed mafia? you're making me post half naked... It's a combination out of: 1) I did make a post during night saying that I'll be looking into kita, that's why Kita is up there for me to begin with. Sadly TL striked for me yesterday and I couldn't get it done just yet 2) I don't think mafia would sit back chilling and playing safe after losing Sandro d1 and having 5 confirmed townies. There's bound to be some risky play so while I do consider it unlikely I don't consider it impossible at all under these situations. Now I'm really off, sorry | ||
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On January 28 2014 03:18 WaveofShadow wrote: Let us talk about Toad for a sec. This kind of post is what makes me think kita is town (along with that one I mentioned earlier, the long one). How easy is a post like this to make when he's talking about theoretical mafia POV? From a town perspective it sounds like a completely realistic mafia perspective but so much that it sounds fishy. Am I explaining this right? Essentially it truly sounds as though this is town trying to explain things from mafia POV rather than mafia explaining mafia POV. A lot of Toad's posts around that point (which I mentioned and Toad and I argued about briefly) just reek All it looked like around this point in the day was him trying to get himself out of the 'strong scumread' on me based on his horrible case on post earlier. He tries to defend/explain himself here, but it just doesn't jive with me Like all of Toad's activity since that point feels like subtle buddying/apologizing to me for earlier D2 to get me off of him, and it actually kind of worked for a while. yes I've been trying to be nice to you and you can call that buddying, but it's obviously a gross misrepresentation given that I still think you're scummy and still don't understand why Gonzaw thought you're town. You seem to be conveniently forgetting that part when talking about how I'm "buddying" you. Do me a favor and don't just read my filter, open those posts and look at those posts in context, especially read your own posts as well to get an idea. You were emotional, I tried to talk to you, you got super angry for no reason, you got pissed for no reason and you've been screaming and kicking in the thread whenever someone mentioned your name without praising you. I'm certaintly not buddying you, I'm ignoring you while you're impossible to talk to, may that be because you're faking emotions or because you're actually emotional. There was literally no point in talking to you so I stopped the hardcourse and instead tried a more relaxed approach to figure out if you'd still keep on doing that or if you'd chill down. If you look at my posts you'll find the exact same approach everytime someone posts emotional for an extended period, in this game for example VE. People are different and telling someone who's clearly screaming like a 5 year old to cool down while keeping pressure on them might be something gonzaw likes as an approach and it may work on a select few people but I think it's usually pointless. So yes I've been posting nicer when talking with you but I certainly wasn't buddying you. | ||
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On January 28 2014 03:46 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh really Toad? 'Cause as i remember it, I was the one who recognized my own state and chose to take a break from the thread. So that certainly doesn't explain your change of route. Not to mention the fact that I was pissed off at your case because of how terrible and obviously so it was. You're saying you opted not to keep pressure on me because of my emotional state? Would you have continued with the arguments you were pushing if I didn't yell at you, Toad? I'm pretty calm right now, would you like to continue to 'pressure' me about something? and you'll realize that I started posting nice with you a lot sooner than that, but I'm sure you're aware of that as well. You even just admitted that you were pissed and yelling at me. Yes I don't talk with people who are yelling at me, remember rayn? Yes you do but you obviously don't seem to remember for whatever convenient reason right now. Yes probably. Most likely not with you but with other people but you kept derailing the thread whenever I mentioned your name so I stopped it. No, I still have to figure out if I'm wrong about you or Foolishness first or if Kita is the one being town and I don't see a lot of reason to talk about you with you. You say you calmed down but you don't seem to realize the way you're posting right now. Crazy conspiracy, tunnely without a reason, still emotional inbetween as can be seen in the above post and the first 2 can either be contributed to a scum plan or to actual emotions. I'd be willing to talk with other people about you | ||
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On January 28 2014 03:50 WaveofShadow wrote: Gonzaw explained pretty damn clearly why he thought I was town, whether you believe it or not is another thing. Apparently you still think I'm scummy despite your change of direction and attack on Foolishness (which was in itself a soft defense of me at the time given what the thread was up to)? Go on, Toad, let's hear what still makes me scummy. I'm all ears. Okay let's give it a try. I'm cooking so I'll f5 every 3 or so minutes but keep that in mind. From your PoV Foolishness is you main suspect. You and I are the ones that ended up voting him. Kita was the one that got Foo[/red][/red] into trouble innitially, I know he wasn't the one with the first vote but people started seriously considering him ever after his case. Kita was more than willing to help Gonzaw to get VE lynched. The lynch was between Foo and VE. Toad kept voting Foo, while Kita, the innitiator got off to ensure a VE lynch and help Gonzaw. You are certain that Foo is mafia. This story makes no sense. | ||
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On January 28 2014 04:06 Toadesstern wrote: Okay let's give it a try. I'm cooking so I'll f5 every 3 or so minutes but keep that in mind. From your PoV Foolishness is you main suspect. You and Toad are the ones that ended up voting him. Kita was the one that got Foo into trouble innitially, I know he wasn't the one with the first vote but people started seriously considering him ever after his case. Kita was more than willing to help Gonzaw to get VE lynched. The lynch was between Foo and VE. Toad kept voting Foo, while Kita, the innitiator got off to ensure a VE lynch and help Gonzaw. You are certain that Foo is mafia. This story makes no sense. | ||
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On January 28 2014 04:17 WaveofShadow wrote: For fuck sakes I just deleted my post. let's try again. What? Crazy consipracy? How is a scumread on you a crazy conspiracy? And how am i tunneling you without reason? I have offered plenty of reason. I defy anyone else in this thread to look at what I've written about you and say it doesn't at the very least appear true. As far as emotional goes, there's a difference between the emotional and the tone I'm using right now. it's called accusatory, and considering I believe yo to be scum, I think it's pretty appropriate. All this post looks like is you trying to opt out of conversation with me, kinda like Foolishness. If you believe Foolishness to be scum and you're doing the same thing he is...well..... Ok so you are going to try and talk. Good. Now as far as things making no sense? Wrong. VE was a viable lynch target for yesterday, even I was strongly considering lynching him but in the end guts won out. I see no reason why a theoretical town kita wouldn't change his vote to VE. I have also explained multiple times why if you and Foolishness are scum a bus from makes some degree of sense, but how about you do me a favour? Why don't we drop the idea that Foolishness is scum altogether? What happens to this post then? only answering the last part right now because like I said, cooking: Then you end up with Kita + Toad. You are willing to drop your strongest mafia read in foolishness and consider me mafia as Kitas ally instead of going for the thing in comming, Kita being mafia according to you no matter what. fixed the [/red] tag btw. | ||
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On January 28 2014 04:23 kitaman27 wrote: Is that where you are at on me toad as well? Mafia no matter what? we already had that On January 28 2014 01:39 Toadesstern wrote: you're making me post half naked... It's a combination out of: 1) I did make a post during night saying that I'll be looking into kita, that's why Kita is up there for me to begin with. Sadly TL striked for me yesterday and I couldn't get it done just yet 2) I don't think mafia would sit back chilling and playing safe after losing Sandro d1 and having 5 confirmed townies. There's bound to be some risky play so while I do consider it unlikely I don't consider it impossible at all under these situations. Now I'm really off, sorry | ||
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On January 28 2014 04:27 WaveofShadow wrote: That post is kinda wonky but I think I understand what you mean. No, the difference is kita, not you. You're mafia no matter what. Kita could still be town and a theoretical town Foolishness's analysis could also be wrong and scum could be someone like austin. The point being that I'm kidna through with considering association---this may be why this game has been so difficult so far. Every time someone comes up with something viable/likely as a scumread, it gets shot down because 'well so-and-so can't be scum with so-and-so because insert unflipped association case here' I'm done doing that. I'm considering you scum based on your own merits entirely, so if you forget about what Foolishness's alignment is completely in your above scenario, then you simply look scummy for switching off of me when the attack turned to you. awesome, so you do agree with my point on you and that you're scummy for just randomly dropping Foolishness and going after someone else to try to get one of the confirmed towniess lynched after I flip. Why couldn't you just say so, because that's what you're saying right there, just that you're not willing to put it that straight. | ||
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On January 28 2014 04:36 WaveofShadow wrote: Um...excuse me? I dropped Foolishness where? He is who I am voting right now. I am simply doing my best to cinsder all options, have a discussion with you, and scumhunt because as far as I remember even if I'm right about Foolishness and he is scum, I still have to find the second scum. Are you seriously trying to spin my words in this way? This is like the third example of you trying to misrepresent me in this game that I can think of, and I really don't like being misrepresented. I also really don't like being baited. Are you purposefully trying to make me angry again right now Toad? On January 28 2014 04:39 WaveofShadow wrote: Like, there's no way you can actually believe what you just wrote, so why say it in thread, Toad? Ok this is the last time I'm telling you that. I'm not trying to make you angry, you basicly accused me of posting too nicely whenever I'm talking with you just 5 minutes ago. That's your beef with me and you're telling me I'm actively trying to make you angry? One more of those posts and I'm done talking with you for good. You do consider your options but you completly drop Kita out of the equation which I don't see someone doing if you actually happen to be town. You don't see those blatant mistakes in your arguments that makes everything you're talking about just not work out. I'm sitting here trying to figure out which assumption of mine is wrong. I don't see you doing that, instead you're ignoring it and continuing like nothing happened. That's the exact same thing I mentioned last game. You should be sitting here thinking "what that doesn't make sense, let's try to figure out why" instead of just ignoring it and continuing like nothing happened. | ||
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On January 28 2014 04:54 Toadesstern wrote: for crying out loud, you were CERTAIN that VE was a townie at that time and you just get in here telling me you thought the VE was a good one? On January 28 2014 04:17 WaveofShadow wrote: [/red][/red]For fuck sakes I just deleted my post. let's try again. What? Crazy consipracy? How is a scumread on you a crazy conspiracy? And how am i tunneling you without reason? I have offered plenty of reason. I defy anyone else in this thread to look at what I've written about you and say it doesn't at the very least appear true. As far as emotional goes, there's a difference between the emotional and the tone I'm using right now. it's called accusatory, and considering I believe yo to be scum, I think it's pretty appropriate. All this post looks like is you trying to opt out of conversation with me, kinda like Foolishness. If you believe Foolishness to be scum and you're doing the same thing he is...well..... Ok so you are going to try and talk. Good. Now as far as things making no sense? Wrong. VE was a viable lynch target for yesterday, even I was strongly considering lynching him but in the end guts won out. I see no reason why a theoretical town kita wouldn't change his vote to VE. I have also explained multiple times why if you and Foolishness are scum a bus from makes some degree of sense, but how about you do me a favour? Why don't we drop the idea that Foolishness is scum altogether? What happens to this post then? | ||
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On January 28 2014 04:56 WaveofShadow wrote: First of all don't threaten me. I don't respond to threats. [...] On January 28 2014 04:39 WaveofShadow wrote: Like, there's no way you can actually believe what you just wrote, so why say it in thread, Toad? Done talking with you about you. Anything else you want to talk about? | ||
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So as we both seem to be reading kitas filter, what do you make of it so far? I see a bunch of questions that are weird, but that's Kitaplay no matter of alignment. The fact that he's not really making anything with answeres is what's striking me as odd. Also I might add that for the entire day it's been pretty much just Marv, WoS and myself who are posting right now. Kita did drop by and said that the activity has changed for certain people, subtly implying (?) that it's not the case for him because he's always been like that. If you're not willing to talk about Kita because you're not finished reading his filter (I'm haven't either... I always end up stopping at some point because it's nonstop jokes that can't be taking serious either way which is making it really hard...) how about you talk me through your opinions of this change of threadpresence. Foolishness seems to be high on peoples lynch list, especially with Gonzaw basicly ordering us to lynch him. What do you make of the silence right now? I know you said you don't feel like talking about combinatorics, so feel free to split it up into "a) if foolish is mafia b) if foolish is town" | ||
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On January 28 2014 08:10 Promethelax wrote: Filter page count Toad: 5 Fool: 5 Marv: 13 Austin: 9 Kita: 10 Me: 5 WoS: 14 Based on this I'd say at least one of Fool/Toad is scum. It is a rough measuring stick but since I have reason to town read the four players with double the post count of myself and the above players it isn't a bad reason to start there. I know that some scum make sure to have at least as many posts as the bottom tier townie and since there are three of us with 5 posts everyone can see that at least one townie has that post count. Since I have my own role pm I can eliminate me from the proceedings. This chart shall dictate the order I read filters in 1. Toad 2. Fool 3. Kita 4. + Show Spoiler [WoS] + Again by sheer dint of effort I find it very unlikely that WoS is scum. He said some things about VE which were so out of left field dumb (as scum) that he has to be town.+ Show Spoiler + His comments that at most only one of them was scum are telling, when he, as scum, knows VE will flip town those bet hedging posts are awful. He wasn't sure enough of a town VE for him to be scum. He hedged his bets to save face, to be able to say "well, I had my doubts" if VE flipped. Not to gain towncred from his correct read keep in mind that my filter starts on halfway through d2 and it's halfway through d3 right now, on top of that I'm a guy who posts walloftexts more so than other people and 1 page = 20 posts if you think that's a metric... Also I'm someone who posts a crapton no matter of alignment, both as town and as mafia. LI anyone? | ||
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On January 28 2014 08:42 Promethelax wrote: It isn't a metric for who is or is not scum. It is a metric for who is worth looking at first. On January 28 2014 08:10 Promethelax wrote: Filter page count Toad: 5 Fool: 5 Marv: 13 Austin: 9 Kita: 10 Me: 5 WoS: 14 Based on this I'd say at least one of Fool/Toad is scum. It is a rough measuring stick but since I have reason to town read the four players with double the post count of myself and the above players it isn't a bad reason to start there. I know that some scum make sure to have at least as many posts as the bottom tier townie and since there are three of us with 5 posts everyone can see that at least one townie has that post count. Since I have my own role pm I can eliminate me from the proceedings. This chart shall dictate the order I read filters in 1. Toad 2. Fool 3. Kita 4. + Show Spoiler [WoS] + Again by sheer dint of effort I find it very unlikely that WoS is scum. He said some things about VE which were so out of left field dumb (as scum) that he has to be town.+ Show Spoiler + His comments that at most only one of them was scum are telling, when he, as scum, knows VE will flip town those bet hedging posts are awful. He wasn't sure enough of a town VE for him to be scum. He hedged his bets to save face, to be able to say "well, I had my doubts" if VE flipped. Not to gain towncred from his correct read ? But I'm watching WcW for the next hour so I'll leave it at that | ||
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The hydra game wasn't a hydragame. I played it entirely alone and Marv left me hanging... | ||
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IT'S FUCKING AWESOME Probably still going to be around for 15 minutes or so as I still have something to finish up. If there's something I missed that needs to be done RIGHT NAO and can be done quickly go post it. Going to f5 before actually going to bed. | ||
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On January 28 2014 11:17 kitaman27 wrote: Witch Craft Works is a Japanese manga series written and illustrated by Ryū Mizunagi. The plot revolves around Game solved. also animated, airing right now, it also has a german witch, dressed in all military because that's what we germans do, that tries to kidnap him, giant robot bunnies attacking with swords and the like, giant teddy bears that crush cities and stuff like that. There's nothing that's not in there. Nothing. You see that stuff and think "wtf's going on in this show?" - not your show You see that stuff, think "wtf's going on" instantly adding "lol who cares, it's fricking hilarious" - watch it anyways, I take that as nothing important right now | ||
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Anyways quick updates: I really like the big posts from Foolishness. Especially the parts about WoS and Kita (and me, duh) as they just resonate with me so much I can't believe it. I went into Kita's filter and I really tried to because he WAS the thing in common between WoS+Kita and Foo+Kit. I read, I gave up reading, I read again and I couldn't find anything and ended up being frustated because it made no sense and I really did not think Kita's cheerfulness or however to put it decently was faked. It really did feel like a townkita to me, I was frustrated and people got frustrated because I should be lynching Kita according to what I said but couldn't end up bringing anything together. Next thing went into WoS filter again and it's exactly the same thing as he said. Sure some small things here and there but nothing convincing at all. I found myself thinking that his explanations for his emotional play and for what I considered weird play are odd but I didn't consider them and it was certainly possible despite being odd. Once that crossed my mind I thought about why he should even be emotional as mafia... There was no reason to be later on, sure maybe early on but gonzaw was praising him as a saint and Austin and I were the only ones that kept attacking him (well and Foo but only once all 24 hours) and a lynch on him didn't seem likely. There was no need to fake emotions at all so I got to the conclusion that he actually was pissed and that his weird explanations actually made sense. What this means for me? I'm still at the same conclusion about foolishness as I've been lately -> He makes a crapton of sense and I really like his posts but whenever lynchtime comes he just goes wtf and does some weird shit that makes no sense. Thinking about his 2 (most likely) mafia reads being Prom and Marv. I do like those as mafiareads, WoS not so much anymore. Prom has been talked about a lot recently, he did afk like the game's already in the bag and what's more he pointed it out himself saying he has to re-prove himself as townie. I don't think a townie would be sitting there thinking that way. A townie. Townies are confident in themselves and "there's no way anyone could consider me to be mafia because I'm obviously the townies townie that ever towned a town", or something like that, ESPECIALLY after how d1 went. Maybe a bad case of having to much information and prom knowing he's not actually town that made him come to the conclusion that he should kick it up a notch? Marv... honestly I haven't looked much into it but he's been after my ass ever sine I got in here with just weird stuff. Anyone remember when I said I didn't even read Holy's posts and everyone was completly fine with it but marv went nuts about it? Didn't like that one bit but I'd have to reread him before willing to lynch into that, it's just a gutfeeling right now. TL;DR: That being said for me it's about wether or not I want to trust in foolishness being town or not and it therefore will be a decision between Prom and Foolishness for me. I'll check out Foo's filter again to see try and understand how those weird wtf conclusions close to deadline happened to came to be and wether there's an explanation for it | ||
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On January 29 2014 01:44 Promethelax wrote: I afk'd for ~24 hours. Of course I need to prove myself townie. I'm not retarded, I know where I stand in the thread and I know that I was a lynch people liked a lot. Do you have any opinions that are actually...you know, real? Or are you going to say that everyone can scum and you need to wait to see how things pan out. give ma sec man, I'm getting to that | ||
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We're lynching Foolishness today. He's been up there for 3 days straight for a reason and I still fear that he will just pull some crap on us when deadline hits and I start to believe gonzaws conspiracy about how Foolishness has been buddying me and has been using us with his shiny posts inbetween to just do whatever else afterwards. Marv and Prom have gotten in here and they're trying to change things up. Foolishness has his 4 big posts that are all nice and dandy but I don't see him convincing people as much as I'd like to, only being here shortly before deadline suddendly saying weird stuff that makes no sense with what he said prior to deadline about how someone suddenly is a bad lynch and creating chaos. ##vote Foolishness | ||
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On January 29 2014 02:06 Promethelax wrote: What are marv and I trying to do together we are trying to change things up but, you say Fool is scum. How, then, can me/marv be trying to change things up since we cannot be scum together if fool is scum. change things up as in, you got in here and you're actively trying to do something about the situation of you guys looking worse right now... | ||
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On January 29 2014 02:11 Promethelax wrote: Oh. My bad. That makes sense. I thought you didn't like that I was working to improve my image? Wasn't that a thing you just said four seconds ago? I said I had a problem with you pointing it out instead of just doing it. | ||
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On January 29 2014 02:14 Promethelax wrote: But by the time you had an issue with it I had already been doing things as well as having said I needed to do them. So why create an issue there where I had already done what it is you say I needed to do to make that good. because I'm not here to post at 8am my time or whatever it was. I do like the fact that you're doing it. I still don't like the fact that you said it. Understandable? | ||
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On January 29 2014 02:19 Promethelax wrote: no, it isn't understandable at all. You brought it into the thread as an issue by the time you had caught up to the thread. You didn't say "if this had not been followed up on it would be an issue" you said "this is an issue" and three minutes later you dropped the issue and called me town and fool scum. On January 29 2014 02:05 Toadesstern wrote: that I'm less convinced about you two than foolishness. Frankly speaking, could be he's bussing one out of you/Marv/WoS right now because if he flips red you three do look better. where in the world do you get that I'm calling you town? I said it's an issue, I said I still think it's an issue. I said I think foolishness is the bigger issue. | ||
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On January 29 2014 02:29 Promethelax wrote: Kita, talk to me about what Toad is saying right now. He says that I look bad for something silly. That fool looks good for his huge posts/reads on me/kita/toad in conclusion Toad votes Fool does this mean that Toad is scum or can Toad flip this flop so easily? If Toad can be town while saying these things are the things he is saying true? Should Fool be lynched over prome?If so why? the reason I am and was voting foolish is and always has been "guy makes sense whenever he posts and I agree with him but suddendly goes fullretard when deadline hits" | ||
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We've got cookies over here. And you know what happened last time people didn't accept cookies, right? So basicly here's what I think. I agree with your "it's probably between Foo/Marv/Prome", it's what I've been getting at as well. Marv isn't going to get lynched today, agree? Foolishness has been getting heat for a reason this past week. I'm on him, [green]gonzaw[/freen] concluded with "foo buddying toad and using him, foo mafia", Kita who we both agree to be town most likely is on Foo and Marv, the guy known for bussing without any kind of bad conscience is on Foo. Prom as well (i think? votecount please). I like this lynch. This lynch is awesome. You really think we should be voting prom instead or what's up? | ||
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is it bad that I would have been able to say 喉が乾きました but wasn't able to come up with either "die of thirst" or "to be parched" ? On January 29 2014 03:18 austinmcc wrote: If you agree with that set of 3, then your options are foolishness/marv foolishness/prome marv/prome out of those three, i think the LEAST likely is foolishness/marv. Marv pushed him a little D1, they didn't play any games where they made cases on each other, fought like hell, lynched one and tried to get the other looking good, blah blah. I think that if you're on board with those three options, then yes, you should vote prome. Because I don't see a less likely scenario than Foolishness/marv, in which case prome is the common denominator. Unless you disagree on what scenario seems wonky. ##vote: Promethelax I now know what the misunderstanding (?) between WoS and me earlier was about. Yeah I agree if this is about who you're going to filterdive first as in who you want to focus on the most and it makes perfectly sense. I don't agree with voting based on it. I didn't yolovote Kita earlier either when I was at "well it's either Foo+Kita or Kita+WoS" but went back and checked his filter to make sure I'm right. Out of the things we have on those 3 I'd really say prome is the one that has the weakest things attributed to him. Might be I'm a bit biased because Marv went after me all the time but I do think so. I do agree with the basic assumption. I do however not take it for granted as much as I like it. | ||
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It's not like earlier when we had some people push for something that just didn't make sense with what the rest of the assumption was. Foolishness makes sense and he's the best lynch for today. | ||
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On January 29 2014 03:51 austinmcc wrote: Alright. Back. Not taking it for granted is fine, but people had Prome scummy D1, we pretty much backed off on D2 because of sandroba stuff (except VE). I dunno if I agree about prome having the "weakest things" attributed to him, but maybe. I'd flip it around and ask you if he's done anything in particular that made you feel townie on him. just recently, I've explained why I'd rather vote foolishness than him. He has a townread on me. He gets angry at me and asks what I'm doing. Why would he be doing that as mafia? Shouldn't be he sitting back in irc laughing and be happy that I'm willing to lynch foolishness over him? You think he'd attack me after everyone and their mom has called me town this cycle, as mafia when I'm voting foolishess instead of being happy to not have any more heat? | ||
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Spiderman is the kind of MC where you throw up while he's sprouting righteous stuff into peoples face à la "yeah I get you (Villain) had a bad childhood and I understand why you are trying to do all this. I feel sorry for you but killing newborn babies is bad no matter how bad your childhood was" and you just sit there and think FOR CHIRSTS SAKE JUST PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE | ||
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On January 29 2014 07:39 austinmcc wrote: If you believe this, why foolishness over prome? + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2014 06:25 austinmcc wrote: KITAMAN'S COMBINATRICS CRAP Toad is on board here with marv/prome/foolishness, pick 2 WoS or kita, are you as well? Regardless, here's how that set of 3 people plays out! marv/foolishness OR prome/foolishness OR marv/prome (1) marv + foolishness marv attacks foolishness on D1, because of Foolishness's sandroba comments. That's a lot of mafia on mafia on mafia interaction. Foolishness attacks marv on D1 for not doing much, again, a lot of mafia on mafia on mafia interaction. Does it make sense? It does if they go "jesus we're going to look weird if we're around at endgame, we need to sacrifice one or two of us to get one guy to endgame." They drop sandroba, giving marv credit, but keeping foolishness and marv at odds. Overall though, i find this UNLIKELY, because it seems like a terrible plan to START THE GAME thinking you're going to lynch your buddies and set yourselves apart. Their D1s, both posting that the other looks scummy, and continuing to harp on that, make it look like they are NOT mafia together. (2) prome + foolishness Town had the bestest D1 EVER? And again, from D1, foolishness and prome are calling each other mafia and setting themselves apart? Then Foolishnes is going "prome is the best lynch" --> I was wrong, prome likely town --> Prome is the best lynch? What does this accomplish for that team? Two scenarios. In one, they want PROME lynched and Foolishness alive. Foolishness gets a little town cred, maybe doesn't get lynched tomorrow. But here's the deal. He needs TWO mislynches. He's basically locked into not lynching Kita or Toad. So he goes for marv ezpz, after prome flips. Fine. Then Foolishness only has myself/WoS to go after. He's gone hard back to WoS is town, and is continuing to state that, push that, today when he just got back to thread. If he needs WoS as a mislynch, I don't think he reinforces the idea that he finds WoS townie. If he wants to go after me, he probably doesn't keep halfway buddying me. I think that this plan makes 0 sense. ESPECIALLY because the plan is "have Foolishness survive until endgame and secure a mislynch." Townies are going to be really creeped out by a living Foolishness at that point, ESPECIALLY after Foolishness worked so hard to get prome lynched. It just doesn't work. So the other scenario. They want FOOLISHNESS lynched today. Prome lives. MAYBE some people give him credit for Foolishness attacking him, who knows. Prome now needs two mislynches. He can get me killed pretty easily, because of my defending foolishness and conduct today. His other mislynch is ... more open. HE can go after toad or kita easier than Foolishness can, saying Foolishness is dicking town around with one of those reads. He can go after WoS, saying WoS looks weird for Foolishness coming back to town on him and really not trying hard to get WoS lynched over VE. Prome has way way way more options to win the game than Foolishness does. It looks LESS WEIRD if prome is around at endgame, and he has more choices. A mafia team of prome + foolishness HAS AN EASIER TIME OF WINNING if we lynch foolishness and not prome. (3) prome + marv In this case, we don't want to lynch Foolishness If you think that the remaining mafia are within foolishness/promethelax/marv, then you should be lynching promethelax. Because in one scenario, Foolishness is town. In one scenario, BOTH are mafia, but mafia has an EASIER TIME WINNING if we lynch Foolishness and not promethelax. The ONLY reason you should be voting Foolishness, IF you think mafia is in those three, is if you think the team is Foolishness + marv. I find that team very very unlikely, given how they'd played and interacted. Do you disagree with my conclusion? Or you think that it's not worth lynching based on that conclusion, and you're just set on Foolishness whether it makes the most sense out of those three or no. the latter. I want this cleared up for now. | ||
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On January 29 2014 07:46 austinmcc wrote: If prome is town, I assume you think Foolishness is mafia 100%? If prome is mafia...foolishness likely town but not certain? I know that lynching A to clear up B sounds smelly, and isn't conclusory, but i THINK things are mostly cleared up with either lynch, and I think prome puts us in the best position. If foo flips mafia - we win If foo flips town - we win by lynching Prome/Marv If prome flips mafia - we win If prome flips town - I'm mighty scared of people going crazy conspiracy that's it for me right now. The likelyhood of someone beeing mafia/town out of prome/foo is actually pretty equal for me right now | ||
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On January 29 2014 09:32 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright well in that case I highly suggest you have a good look at Prome sometime soon, and I will do the same. I'm pretty sure he is #1 for me tomorrow but I'm going to want to be sure for my own reasons, not simply 'Foolishness solved the game' reasons. Does Foolishness usually solve a game though? I mean I assume his analysis obviously isn't always flawless but is he one of those people who always figures it out if left long enough? Foolishness is probably the incarnation of what you'd call someone who "solves" a game. Literally. Depending on the size of the game it will take a different amount of time but once he posts those things they're right or he's mafia. It's that simple. Probably amongst other people like Syllo, Sand and Rad if they're town as well. Oh and maybe Marv but he happens to be mafia this game. | ||
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On January 29 2014 09:42 Toadesstern wrote: yeah same here. Syllo's probably my undisputed #1 townie on TL followed by either Sand or Foolishness. And than a long time noone. that was @marv | ||
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Not an issue for me. He was after you d2 and so was I. So I don't really see a problem there, seems like stated for clarity. | ||
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On January 29 2014 09:47 WaveofShadow wrote: Um. Do you read? Everything he called me townie for in that post is from D1. Why did he call me scum on D2 if he found my D1 townie? Because he got back at it, reread and changed his mind? Those things happen and I'd feel the need to state that as well and if I'm not entirely wrong I did so as well somewhere. | ||
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On January 29 2014 09:49 Toadesstern wrote: Because he got back at it, reread and changed his mind? Those things happen and I'd feel the need to state that as well and if I'm not entirely wrong I did so as well somewhere. referring to this: On January 29 2014 01:35 Toadesstern wrote: holy wall of texts I just had to read... [...] Next thing went into WoS filter again and it's exactly the same thing as he said. Sure some small things here and there but nothing convincing at all. I found myself thinking that his explanations for his emotional play and for what I considered weird play are odd but I didn't consider them and it was certainly possible despite being odd. Once that crossed my mind I thought about why he should even be emotional as mafia... There was no reason to be later on, sure maybe early on but gonzaw was praising him as a saint and Austin and I were the only ones that kept attacking him (well and Foo but only once all 24 hours) and a lynch on him didn't seem likely. There was no need to fake emotions at all so I got to the conclusion that he actually was pissed and that his weird explanations actually made sense. [...] Seems like he had the same intention to make things clear as I did. | ||
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On January 29 2014 09:52 WaveofShadow wrote: You didn't answer my question. Why did he call me scum D2 if he found my D1 townie? What were his reasons? he called you scum D2 because he thought you're scum D2 based on your D1. He said you're town D3 because he went back, revised his read and came to the conclusion that you're more likely to be town, not only because of your D3/D2 play but because of everything. He's saying he made a mistake without outright saying it. That's the only issue I could possibly see but I don't consider that to be a thing. | ||
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On January 29 2014 09:58 WaveofShadow wrote: Nope. Just went through his filter. Can't find it. couldn't find what? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + I'm totally serious+ Show Spoiler + mafias probably to lazy to open spoilers, right? + Show Spoiler + please don't shoot me+ Show Spoiler + in case it's not obvious enough: I'm not sure if it's the time of the day were people say weird stuff to not get shot and come out later LOLZ I BE KIDDING see you tomorrow | ||
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So in case I die, keep on lynching Prome. Make sure you talk this WoS/austin bullshit out and clear that. I don't want you two in lylo if there's still this shit going on so better start clearing things early on. If you get yourself paranoid and do some crazy bullshit I'm going to be mighty mad. That's it from me for now | ||
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##vote Prome Oh and gg Kita | ||
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Pretty much confirms that there's mafia in Marv/Prome/Austin at this point and austin is town, so really keep on lynching | ||
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On January 30 2014 11:21 austinmcc wrote: ........................................... There are 5 people alive There are 2 mafia alive One of the people alive is you If you are not mafia (Then of course there is mafia in marv/prome/austin) (It's 100% confirmed because of math) (Toad?) yeah forgot about kita being dead midway and included him in my calculations. That's why it's Seems like mafia wants some kind of WoS + either me or Austin lylo + whatever is left after prome, right? while "whatever is left" is nothing but Marv. Not really thought through. | ||
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On January 31 2014 01:01 marvellosity wrote: Toad, I can't find anything in your filter that shows me the basis of your austin townread. It seems to be a default. What gives? Why am I default lynch after Prome almost and there's not a lot of other consideration? Thursday is trainday but I'm here now! Anyways: I'm trying to look confident :3 Haven't seen anything from Austin that made me go "wat?" so far while seeing a bunch of stuff that I'd consider really townish. I mean just recently when I screwed up my math and still had 6 people alive in my head, including kita as still alive and he pointed that out. You think mafia reads that kind of stuff and actually thinks about it? You really think mafia would have seen that I suddenly jumped from 5 to 6 people alive? I don't think so. (On a sidenote: Feel free to take that as confirmation that I didn't know about Kita dying lol) At the same time you've been pushing weird crap, mostly on me, like "wtf Toad hasn't read Holy's filter!!!" when other people like Kita and VE got in, disagreed and if I remember correctly even called it slightly townish. Yet you for some reason kept giving me crap for nonsensical stuff like that all game long trying to get my lynched. I mean if it would have at least been the way WoS did it with conviction, despite being wrong, but you've been giving me crap all game long for no reason in comparison to people who either gave me crap to get me lynched or didn't give me crap to begin with. Add to that that Foolishness has you as mafia as well, add to that I saw you going "wtf foolishness has me as mafia" when he didn't even mention you at that time in point and found it really weird as well and you're the 2nd most likely mafia for me. I did check WoS' filter a CRAPTON and as much as I'd like him to be mafia and as much as I'd like these minor things I found to be something they're all just some random crap that really could just be the way he explained it later on and even worse, it does make sense the way the explained it so there's no way I'm considering him over you. I'm town, that leaves you as 4th in line (Toad -> Austin -> WoS -> Marv -> Prome) | ||
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On January 31 2014 04:53 Toadesstern wrote: Thursday is trainday but I'm here now! Anyways: I'm trying to look confident :3 Haven't seen anything from Austin that made me go "wat?" so far while seeing a bunch of stuff that I'd consider really townish. I mean just recently when I screwed up my math and still had 6 people alive in my head, including kita as still alive and he pointed that out. You think mafia reads that kind of stuff and actually thinks about it? You really think mafia would have seen that I suddenly jumped from 5 to 6 people alive? I don't think so. (On a sidenote: Feel free to take that as confirmation that I didn't know about Kita dying lol) At the same time you've been pushing weird crap, mostly on me, like "wtf Toad hasn't read Holy's filter!!!" when other people like Kita and VE got in, disagreed and if I remember correctly even called it slightly townish. Yet you for some reason kept giving me crap for nonsensical stuff like that all game long trying to get my "lynched". I mean if it would have at least been the way WoS did it with conviction, despite being wrong, but you've been giving me crap all game long for no reason in comparison to people who either gave me crap to get me lynched or didn't give me crap to begin with. Add to that that Foolishness has you as mafia as well, add to that I saw you going "wtf foolishness has me as mafia" when he didn't even mention you at that time in point and found it really weird as well and you're the 2nd most likely mafia for me. I did check WoS' filter a CRAPTON and as much as I'd like him to be mafia and as much as I'd like these minor things I found to be something they're all just some random crap that really could just be the way he explained it later on and even worse, it does make sense the way the explained it so there's no way I'm considering him over you. I'm town, that leaves you as 4th in line (Toad -> Austin -> WoS -> Marv -> Prome) | ||
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On January 31 2014 05:06 austinmcc wrote: Toad could you go over some of the minor things you found in WoS's filter? Also, do you fully agree with the bullet points Foolishness wrote on marv? You think 100% foolishness knows marv's innermost scum thoughts and has accurately put them in the thread? I'll have to go back at WoS filter and find those posts if you want me to link them. Mostly the stuff that I mentioned already, phrasing I considered weird, the fact that people gave him confirmed townstatus for doing a lot of posts while gonzaw said that's not the case but it certainly was mentioned in the thread like that, mostly those 2 big posts about VE that I still don't understand how he could have gotten to the conclusion for VE to be town when everything he mentioned was a "this could be both from VE, mafia or town" and ended up on the town conclusion every time for no apparant reason. About the bullet points from Foo. Not 100% but I see what he's getting at. I know marv a bit, we've been talking in skype a bunch in the past, we've been in games together and we've pm'ed each other a bunch. Long story short I would not put #2 the way he put it but it's onto something. Marv's posting style is a lot more direct when he's town but he doesn't mind laying back if other people do the right stuff imo. The point being is that just like me Marv is someone who feels sorry for people he has to push whenever he rolls mafia and he knows that they're town and putting effort into it (assumption: Marv doesn't hate the guy in question). Sad thing is, we didn't see a lot of Marv pushing but from what I just said you usally get less direct posts from Marv whenever he's mafia whereas his townposts are just not forgiving towards the person in question. | ||
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On January 31 2014 05:26 austinmcc wrote: Do you think, aside for general marv thoughts, that marv has pushed any specific mafia agendas in this game? well throwing shit at me without actually trying to get me lynched is what I'd call mafia agenda. | ||
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On January 31 2014 05:38 austinmcc wrote: I REALLY HOPE I'M NOT WRONG ABOUT YOU BECAUSE THIS POST ALSO READS SUPER SUPER TOWNIE. Good thing I'm town I guess? | ||
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On January 31 2014 05:58 WaveofShadow wrote: Quick somebody look back for me: Who said that Prome's game beginning was not like LX and why? I remember agreeing with it but I'm curious I think marv, just all-filter ctrl-f "LX"... | ||
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On January 31 2014 06:04 Toadesstern wrote: I think marv, just all-filter ctrl-f "LX"... or at the very least it does sound like something Marv would say, he knows every game and is the only one who talks a lot about that kind of stuff | ||
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On January 31 2014 06:19 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah tjhat was defs it. Toad why couldn't you find that? Marv what do you think my reasons are for not putting thiughts in thread when that's what I do all game every game? I actually had that exact post, thought it's it but couldn't find the innitial post to it with ctrl-f so I didn't care to look into it. | ||
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On January 31 2014 11:09 austinmcc wrote: ? As far as what I think about the toad slot? NUMBER ONE THOUGHT - HE'S TOWN SO I DON'T CARE NUMBER TWO THOUGHT - His response to me asking what he found scummy about marv is VERY townie to me. Why? The final scum NEEDS a mislynch. He NKs someone, he needs a mislynch between the remaining two. The final scum needs to be painting people as scummy, and CONVINCINGLY so. All he has to do is convince Guy A that Guy B is scum, at least more than Guy B can convince Guy A that final scum is scum. Toad, when asked what mafia agenda (i hated using agendas and I'm using agenda as plural here) marv has pushed, doesn't make anything up. He doesn't go FIND places where marv has encouraged votes on townies, taken mafia stances, whatever whatever. He doesn't make any attempt to bolster a case against marv. He just says marv has been pushing him and THAT is a scummy agenda. I find toad town. If he's mafia, he just has to keep me convinced you or marv is mafia. And he put ZERO effort into painting marv as mafia. That is, to me, the opposite of what mafia would have responded to that question with. If he were mafia, he had a chance to make his endgame SLIGHTLY easier, and he utterly failed to take it in a dismissive way. NUMBER THREE THOUGHT - HOLY CRAP HOW DOES HE NOT KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE LEFT IN THE GAME WE ARE 1 DAY FROM ENDGAME AND HE'S JUST...BARELY FOLLOWING ALONG? HOW CAN THIS BE? NUMBER FOUR THOUGHT - As mentioned before, the times I've seen scum toad, he's gotten himself caught EARLY, because he does silly things or he's too outspoken. The scumToad that I know LOVES to cause chaos, be very visible, essentially sac himself to fuck with the thread. In Chrono Trigger he was very visible early. In Pokemon PTP he was apparently visible early, I replaced into the game after he'd already died, but he was a D1 or D2 death iirc. Toad here is NOT causing chaos. He's doing...very little. And he's not the last guy left. Up until recently, toad was more suspicious than prome. If THEY are a mafia team together, I would except mafia Toad to be unable to resist the desire to just fuck with the thread, cause chaos, and try to set prome up. It's not like everyone isn't slightly suspicious of everyone in this game, it would have taken very little work to just push everyone and everything. But instead, he's just passive and often a non-factor. That's not the scumtoad I know. waitwaitwait. PTP Pokemon was special. I was mafia, I was looking super townie despite the fact that I claimed mafia in thread, a townie vigged another townie, some other townie who thought the vig-townie was mafia redirected his shot at random (!!!!!!) and it ended up shooting me in the face. Team mafia had 2 bulletproof people and a medic, I requested to not be medic'ed because I was looking smug, and on top of that I end up eating that 1/24 or whatever it was to have it redirected at me and multiply that with the chance of it being a vig in the first place and you end up with the worst 1-ouf-of-a-1000 chance to get killed as GF n1 death in the history of mafia. I still cringe everytime I think about it... thanks for reminding me. But I like the rest. I really find it hard to motivate myself right now, like WoS said. Honestly speaking, I think it'd be a bad idea to move onto the next target because it could give oppertunity to some bullshit and we need all 3 votes on the same guy right now and I don't want people to start talking about "well but I think lynching Marv before prome might be better". So I do end up rereading some, remind myself to not post about stuff that isn't prome-related in the thread and lose motivation because I might as well just do it later on... sorry I guess Going to be now, see you tomorrow. I'll see if I can get something done by then. | ||
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48 hours of argueing with WoS about why you might or might not be town sounds fun to me. Good thing I don't have to go through that. | ||
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On February 01 2014 03:44 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah fuck you, I'm not looking forward to it either, but I hope you realize your chances are just as good at being stuck there with me imo. Live updates from what's going through my head while reading this: + Show Spoiler [#1] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/trYzLKa.png) + Show Spoiler [#2] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KtqMmB4.gif) you know, except for the fact that I'm not actually a girl | ||
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GG | ||
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don't even get anything like that started. One of us unvoting is enough for them to pull some bullshit if things go wrong. | ||
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Happy Birthday austin! ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1faEnTz.gif) With our thanks to all of town! ##unvote ##Vote: austinmcc ##Stylepoints: marv&toad Original Message From Toadesstern: For the love of god, don't ever vote me this cycle. I don't care what you have to do but Prome votes anything that isn't him and WoS might last second voteswitch me out of rage so please don't give him the opportunity to. They can't lynch us as long we're not voting each other because they're under the assumption that they need 3 votes and one of those votes belongs to me. | ||
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On January 25 2014 07:20 VisceraEyes wrote: Like, presumably he knows his own alignment, why can he not just be confident enough in his own ability to look townie without having to answer for the Holy cases? I don't know, if he's scum it's not because he didn't read Holy's filter imo. certainly On January 31 2014 05:38 austinmcc wrote: I REALLY HOPE I'M NOT WRONG ABOUT YOU BECAUSE THIS POST ALSO READS SUPER SUPER TOWNIE. soooorry austin  | ||
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[30.01.2014 22:08:42] Marv: s'ok [30.01.2014 22:08:51] Marv: everything you touch turns to awesome and Marv did his thing with being active and all that. I think I was asked to join this game with the words of "want to join the sinking ship?" and I was scared to join this on the first cycle because it looked so grim but once the first 24 hours were over it looked like we should win it no problem. Marv and I were both still scared some crap out of nowhere could ruin it so we shot gonzaw n2 instead of letting him alive longer but that's pretty much it. I described my thoughprocess as I went through the game in my Shadow-QT. I can look through that and copy/paste some stuff if that helps and won't cause issues with the next game. Also is it allowed to replace out as a coach and have someone else do it? I've never really coached anyone before. This wasn't a problem because I just wrote down my/our thoughprocess but actually coaching is another thing Oh yeah and obviously thanks for hosting Artanis! Was a really nice game! | ||
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On February 01 2014 08:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote: You don't need to have experience as coach, but if you don't want to do it you may pass it on to someone else. pass it on to someone else in that case. I'm really lazy as you might have realized by now and I don't want to end up coaching someone and realize midway that I'm not properly reading the game and it's too late to pull out. | ||
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On February 01 2014 08:34 Promethelax wrote: Dammit. Sorry town. Fool, this one is on me. Toad, really well played! btw when you asked me if I would voteswitch I obviously knew that I'm mafia (duh), I knew that I shouldn't post what I had in preview (telling you that I won't switch) and that that's super risky but still ended up posting it because I felt to bad for you and didn't want you to waste 5 hours or so | ||
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WoS would have easily been lynched before me in a 3 man lylo but we obviously didn't want to risk giving them more time to figure stuff out. | ||
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He got mad at me, he got mad at foolishness and he got mad at Austin, all people who poked him | ||
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@Gonzaw | ||
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also ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WW0WrTI.gif) | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [#1] + [ like 24 hours after replacing in?] So right now I think I'm doing somewhat good, again I'm not going for optimal play to begin with. I'm just not going to be the townies town that ever towned a town in the situation I've been replaced into. + Show Spoiler [#2] + [27.01.2014 18:30:49] Erik: now I've got coke all over me just after showering... [27.01.2014 18:30:50] Erik: awesome [27.01.2014 18:30:56] Erik: but yeah I'll get to it later [27.01.2014 18:31:17] Marv: well done ;p [27.01.2014 18:32:27] Erik: could probably go to a kindergarten and live the pedo-dream with my pants smelling like sugar [27.01.2014 18:32:34] Marv: rofl [27.01.2014 18:32:39] Marv: ahaha [27.01.2014 18:32:45] Marv: christ [27.01.2014 18:32:47] Marv: lol] + Show Spoiler [#3] + Marv such a scaredy cat, always against funny things to win in style... Doesn't want a last second voteswitch for the lulz Doesn't want me to do crazy shit Doesn't even allow me to claim mafia à la: Prom: of course I'm fighting this lynch, we lose this if I get lynched Toad: nah, you might lose but I certainly won't lose Prom: dude stope it, I'm town Toad: yeah... and I'm mafia | ||
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On February 01 2014 09:16 gonzaw wrote: Anyways, it seems to me just a lot of things went wrong in this game with a lot of townies simultaneously...like at every point after D1. was really with everyone though. I really still don't see why people pressured VE and foolishness so much. There are people you can pressure and it make them show you their alignment and there're some people that you just don't want to pressure. It was blatantly obvious that pressure on VE and Foolishness was hurting town, just give them some time and you could have won this easily. At the same time activity was really low from most people that weren't you and WoS. People thinking they didn't have to do anything because the game was already in the bag because of this stupid assumption that the other 2 mafias have to be within that group of 5 people. | ||
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On February 01 2014 09:33 VayneAuthority wrote: I can still read marv very well, knew he was mafia from the beginning lol btw I am not sorry about lynching foolishness anymore. Remember the last game we played together? The one where I drama-queened? That one post from you like 3 hours into the game that I only mentioned later on? I found that instantly and had you as mafia because of that, thinking to even claim just to get you lynched 3 hours into the game. Instead I pm'ed foolishness to get an outsider's opinion about it. He told me you're most likely some weird townie with a plan, I just keep watching you but you're probably just town! So I didn't proceed to get you lynched! Had to pay him back for that one. | ||
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On February 01 2014 09:35 austinmcc wrote: I think that you have a way of getting really excited and ... drowning someone/someones out. I don't think you got particularly like...jerk aggressive, but (and I know I can and DO do this as well), you can dominate a thread when you think you're onto something/somethings, and you post a LOT about it, and in the case of VE it felt like you really came down on him for disagreeing. yeah agree. I mean we left gonzaw alive for a reason. Foolishness even went so far to say that we shouldn't have shot him n2 (I disagree, the only other option to shoot n2 was austin and he was the only one having a townread on me at that point in time). It's kind of like you (gonzaw) are putting so much in the thread that it discourages other people to put something in there as well. Firstly because you're really hard to talk to if you're on a ramble and you won't stop no matter what. Secondly because there's already a crapton of pages in the game so no need to be the guy who motivates people to post some more (from other people's PoV). Would be a lot better if it's a bit more balanced with how much other people are posting. If the gap's too big people just don't feel like posting in the first place. Edit: I'm just pointing this out because it's usually just the "welp people didn't post a lot. People should have posted a bunch more" and that's certaintly true but there's another side to the coin that people usually ignore, so I felt like mentioning that because the obvious one is obvious (duh) and doesn't need to be stated. | ||
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When I read this:+ Show Spoiler + On January 31 2014 05:29 Toadesstern wrote: well throwing shit at me without actually trying to get me lynched is what I'd call mafia agenda. >-> into >-> On January 31 2014 11:09 austinmcc wrote: ? As far as what I think about the toad slot? NUMBER ONE THOUGHT - HE'S TOWN SO I DON'T CARE NUMBER TWO THOUGHT - His response to me asking what he found scummy about marv is VERY townie to me. Why? The final scum NEEDS a mislynch. He NKs someone, he needs a mislynch between the remaining two. The final scum needs to be painting people as scummy, and CONVINCINGLY so. All he has to do is convince Guy A that Guy B is scum, at least more than Guy B can convince Guy A that final scum is scum. Toad, when asked what mafia agenda (i hated using agendas and I'm using agenda as plural here) marv has pushed, doesn't make anything up. He doesn't go FIND places where marv has encouraged votes on townies, taken mafia stances, whatever whatever. He doesn't make any attempt to bolster a case against marv. He just says marv has been pushing him and THAT is a scummy agenda. I find toad town. If he's mafia, he just has to keep me convinced you or marv is mafia. And he put ZERO effort into painting marv as mafia. That is, to me, the opposite of what mafia would have responded to that question with. If he were mafia, he had a chance to make his endgame SLIGHTLY easier, and he utterly failed to take it in a dismissive way. NUMBER THREE THOUGHT - HOLY CRAP HOW DOES HE NOT KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE LEFT IN THE GAME WE ARE 1 DAY FROM ENDGAME AND HE'S JUST...BARELY FOLLOWING ALONG? HOW CAN THIS BE? NUMBER FOUR THOUGHT - As mentioned before, the times I've seen scum toad, he's gotten himself caught EARLY, because he does silly things or he's too outspoken. The scumToad that I know LOVES to cause chaos, be very visible, essentially sac himself to fuck with the thread. In Chrono Trigger he was very visible early. In Pokemon PTP he was apparently visible early, I replaced into the game after he'd already died, but he was a D1 or D2 death iirc. Toad here is NOT causing chaos. He's doing...very little. And he's not the last guy left. Up until recently, toad was more suspicious than prome. If THEY are a mafia team together, I would except mafia Toad to be unable to resist the desire to just fuck with the thread, cause chaos, and try to set prome up. It's not like everyone isn't slightly suspicious of everyone in this game, it would have taken very little work to just push everyone and everything. But instead, he's just passive and often a non-factor. That's not the scumtoad I know. I couldn't hold it anymore and was laughing so badly. Like I didn't do anything because I was lazy and just posted a one-liner and it ended up being one of the biggest towntells on me. | ||
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I like Hawaii | ||
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On February 01 2014 11:45 gonzaw wrote: Yes. But the hug comes first! ...and no knives this time around! ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hzk0UuX.gif) God I need to rewatch railgun. Also can't wait for next game with Austin | ||
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On February 01 2014 12:04 austinmcc wrote: I'll prep my instruments ![[image loading]](http://24.media.tumblr.com/47a21bc4c384354d990444a98e2f5409/tumblr_mfchi7AZxi1r57f87o1_500.gif) [00:20] <Toad|> W T F, playing mafia on TL, breadcrumbing some information with "お前は何でも知ってるな" becaue I figure noone knows what that means or where that's from anyways, it's TL mafia after all and just 10 people playing or so [00:20] <ecael> lol [00:20] <Toad|> and I get http://lohas.nicoseiga.jp/thumb/1827639i [00:20] <Toad|> as a response, withing 60 seconds [00:20] <ecael> haa [00:20] <Toad|> now that ruins my breadcrumb 8( That literally happened last game. Wasn't sure if I was supposed to cry or laugh hilariously. Always thought THAT in particular is something noone would watch without understanding it lol Edit for people not getting it: Both quotes are about (bake)monogatari. | ||
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On February 01 2014 12:12 DarthPunk wrote: Just a forewarning for the podcast. I'm pretty sure I call all of you bad. Nothing personal I still love you. I also say that marv made the town his bitch. Much love. <3 where do I find this podcast and when do I find it there? | ||
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On February 01 2014 12:27 VayneAuthority wrote: yes we had quite a few moments in that game toad in an otherwise pretty boring game lol I still don't know if you actually were able to read it and knew where it was from or wether you just copy&pasted it without knowing anything about it into google and linked the first image you got but I was crapping my pants | ||
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On February 01 2014 20:38 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I can give you Marv's. Marv D1: "We have like less than 2% chance to win, lol" Marv N1: "Our goal is to get one mislynch" Marv D2: "We are so fucked, but we might at least get one mislynch" Marv N2: "Now there's going to be no enjoyment too because we had to shoot Gonzaw. Fuck this game." Marv D3: "Well we might be able to get Foolishness lynched but we're still fucked at LYLO." Marv N3: "I guess we have a chance." Marv D4: "Why is everyone giving Toad town reads?" Marv N4: "Oops, I guess we won." I can give you mine in contrast as portrayed in my QT: D1: "herpaderp-replace" N1: "Okay this looks bad" D2: "Okay personal goal for myself: Give marv 2 mislynches and he wins this. Will be difficult but 1 mislynch is certain and 2 is possible" N2: "LOL, nice lynch. Looks good looks good. We should easily get into lylo now but lylo itself still looks tough" D3: "Okay can't screw this up anymore. Don't post, don't screw this up" N3: "We got this. Don't screw this up" D4: "Only way to lose this is by claiming Mafia in the thread. Don't claim mafia in the thread.... but I wanna..." N4: "GG, saw it comming from a mile ago" | ||
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there wasn't anywhere to go though. I was pretty much confirmed town and marv was unlynchable the first 3 cycles because he voted Sandroba. And if that's the only mafias left in the game then yeah stuff like VE, Foolishness and Prome happens. Marv kept people busy by talking a bunch and getting people to talk about him and prome because we knew that with me around even if there was some change of opinion Marv would never ever be lynched before Prome (as it did turn out, heck we even lynched Austin for shitz and giggles) and I had easy play to look like the most townie town that ever towned a town because I could just sit back and look like a lost puppy outside in the rain that people want to embrace and safe from this brutal world. With all the talk being about Marv&Prome no time for people to reevaluate me and I was basicly holding town hostage with my one vote they thought they'd need to get mafia lynched. If there ever was such a thing as strategy involved in this, that's the gist of it. | ||
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On February 02 2014 04:00 gonzaw wrote: You weren't "confirmed town" in D2 though the votes were Vote Count - Deadline at Saturday, Jan 25 11:59pm CET (GMT+01:00) VisceraEyes (2): gonzaw, marvellosity, WaveofShadow (2): Toadesstern, Foolishness Foolishness (2): WaveofShadow, kitaman27 Toadesstern (0): Maybe not confirmed but with VE and Foolishness, as well as you still alive no way to get into any kind of danger without slipping hard. Sure not everyone defending me but I had austin :3 | ||
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On February 02 2014 04:30 gonzaw wrote: Well...I did have an insatiable urge to lynch you at one point in D2 Don't remember what happened to that though... I looked cute and pupylike :3 | ||
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On February 02 2014 05:31 Ver wrote: Can someone explain why Foolishness/Austin got lynched? Maybe I just wasn't reading closely enough, as it just seemed like there was no real case and the reasoning was "lol why not?" Austin because 4 votes on prome, 1 on Austin (from prome) and we decided it would be funny to get austin lynched instead so we swapped it to 3 on austin, 2 on prome. Foolishness because he was close to being lynched d1 (no idea why to be honest), the talk about him never really stopped and the "cases" against him were just running themselves based on everyone thinking Foolishness was an option d1 so he has to be an option d2 and d3. At least that's what it looked like from my PoV, haven't actually read that much. Like until the very end I haven't actually read (as in actually sat down to read) a single case on foolishness or Prome because it wasn't needed and just kept yelling "yaya, dem mafias". Marv can vouch for that btw I constantly asked him what's in the thread, what votes were like and who was voting who or willing to switch. I only payed attention to making people think I'm town and paid attention to those opinions. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 02 2014 07:45 gonzaw wrote: I think my problem in this game is that I tried to keep tabs on almost every single thing that I missed a lot of details. For instance stuff to press people on (like what Toad said above, that he didn't read any of Foo's cases. Could have easily been caught by just asking him "What do you think of the cases on Foo?"). Actually, stuff on Toad was mostly missed or forgotten. I don't remember anybody's stance on Toad, other than austin vehemently calling him town because BRAINZ, and Wave getting angry at him (before D3 at least). yeah the funny thing is Marv didn't realize that either and only knew about Austin giving me a strong townread. He was suprised that "suddenly" everyone had me as town when I saw it comming a lot sooner. Sure I was suprised that it was such a strong townread from everyone but I was certain I'm doing quite good all along [except for those 10 minutes when you voted me Gonzaw] and Marv was so suprised he said that maybe we should send me into lylo instead of him. There were actually situations like you mentioned as well. When WoS asked about that one post to look up a couple hours prior to endgame. I said it's a post from Marv and I actually found it, I really didn't know if it's the one he was referring to because I had no context so I just told him I can't find it. That's what I meant with "let other people do things as well and let them post". You just can't keep tabs on everything and if you intend to you're just missing out and doing a poor job with it (imo). | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 03 2014 04:15 gonzaw wrote: Actually HF's conversation with me was basically the scummiest thing he did on D1 (i.e spend all his time talking pointless stuff with me instead of finding scum). But well, your town read on him was understandable. I don't remember why everybody else thought he was town lol. If I explained that I'd have to change so much. Not going to happen  | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 03 2014 08:21 gonzaw wrote: Anyways, I told you guys to lynch Holy on D1 after he said he was subbing out. But no, you wanted to give his replacement a chance. Well, you gave him a chance and he danced around all of you (us). See that one fabulous bunny? That's me | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
[27.01.2014 18:30:49] Erik: now I've got coke all over me just after showering... [27.01.2014 18:30:50] Erik: awesome [27.01.2014 18:30:56] Erik: but yeah I'll get to it later [27.01.2014 18:31:17] Marv: well done ;p [27.01.2014 18:32:27] Erik: could probably go to a kindergarten and live the pedo-dream with my pants smelling like sugar | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 18 2014 23:46 kitaman27 wrote: Heh you're the third person to say that recently. It's funny to see people that have been around for years and then realize that you haven't really actually played with them. I think it was iamp that brought up the fact that over my 40 games and his 20 games, we had overlapped liked twice. Apparently I only join the oddball games XD yeah I don't think we played a lot of games together either. Fairly sure we had some but I can't recall a lot | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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